podcasting 2.0 for May 13 2020 to Episode 85 Lose the room
and we are lips.
It means the live item tag is in effect finally, more about that
in a moment. Hello everybody. Welcome to podcasting 2.0 The
official board meeting for podcasting 2.0 we discuss the
podcast namespace, the podcast standards, everything happening
at podcast index dot social. And we got a guest today I'm Adam
curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama. He parses feeds faster than pod paying my friend on the
other end, ladies and gentlemen, say hello to Mr. Dave Jones.
What up? You know, QA? Do you know that
QA QA? Yeah. Isn't my cousin like short for cousin?
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. What up? What up? Yeah, when you have
me have an 18 year old who's stuff in your house with a broke
leg? You? You get a lot of unscheduled together time with
dad. Yeah. And, you know, I'm learning all the lingo.
Oh, okay. Now, I was gonna ask you about this. Do you Lord this
over him in a way kind of like, you know, once in a while just
to remind him that he's that he's a shit kid. I mean, do you
just say hey, by the way, you know, look what I'm doing for
you. Yeah.
I don't not not that angle. I take more the angle if you're at
my mercy. And
it's excellent. It's just little parenting insider stuff. It's,
it's fun for parents to do.
It don't get cute.
Um, and so second attempt at using all of the live item tag
the lit infrastructure for our for our board meeting today.
Instead of shitshow this was a live show, because this is this
was a mess. Yeah, like 3030 minutes of pre show, fiddling
around with forces feed caches. And like there was it was fun
because like, in my mind, I'm envisioning Adam and Mitch. Like
with those big like we those big stone wheels from medieval times
with the with a big with a humongous set of scissors to
sharpen in the head sharpening.
sharpening stone that spins around
your head down sparks flying everywhere. You know, just
firing up some scissors.
Why don't we bring Mitch in right away, man because he we've
already been talking to him for half an hour trying to get all
this stuff. Right. So you should know him as the master behind
pod verse. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the board meeting.
Mitch Downey.
Hey, what's up, fellas? Fellas? High gave me a hard time for
guys last time. Yeah.
I appreciate that. Yeah, QA. What? UPCA?
Yeah, long time no talk, Mitch, except from just a few minutes
ago, when then when the craziness went down? I mean, are
we live now? Do we wait now we're
definitely live. And actually, Mitch, you've been at you and
Steven B have been on the forefront of this of this lit
stuff, the live item tag. And and you have some other I mean,
I don't really understand even what what, what the pod verse
life paying and notification is doing. But we're certainly not
doing it right here. And part of that as part of that is because
I use sovereign feed. And and, you know, that outputs an RSS
file that I then put on the server. And that's a a custom
made content delivery network that was not really intended for
a lot of changes in files to be reflected immediately. So and
which is because of the massive traffic and data it has to
deliver several times a week. So you know, there's all kinds I
presume, would you say? That's right, Dave? That's why he's why
it's all complicated. Because
yeah, yes. Like the end, the NA, the no agenda network. CDN is
tuned, over many years of trial and error to handle over a
million downloads of traffic within a few hours. Yeah, like
within you. It wants to be able to handle hundreds of 1000s of
downloads, you know, within just a span of like an hour. Yeah.
And so the way the the caching is set up, and this, this is
what I'm understanding, because I've talked to Mark York, yeah,
way back when he first started setting up like varnish and the
way the caching works. I was helping him out a little bit and
we were fiddling with some stuff and in trying to get all this to
work and I think he just tuned it very specifically to be
aggressively cached so that it can handle all that and that's
not really
helpful. I'm really how quick testing. Yeah, but the problem
is I have to have Have my RSS feed on the same infrastructure?
Because when I didn't? Well, you saw the bandwidth bills.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was, you know, it's a nightmare. But you
know what, what we could do, though. Okay. What we could do
is and now I was thinking about this in light of sovereign feeds
with with the new web hook delivery, which is awesome,
which
is already being implemented. Uh huh. So by the answer show, do
it FTP. Yeah, you
tell me that. Yeah. Do you know about this, Mitch? Did you see
that? No, I don't. Yeah. So sovereign faces. Steven has it
coded up where sovereign feeds when you publish a change, it
will deliver the entire feed in a web hook of your to a web hook
URL of your choosing. So you can have it just rather than having
to generate the feed, save it to a file, copy and paste it or
upload it to a CDN, you just set up your CDN to receive the web
hook and they can just drop it where it needs to go. When you
hit publish, very
sexy. Yeah, that'd be great. We
need automated tools. Yeah,
yeah, that was that would solve a lot of stuff right here. And
you know, the cache busting things is my own personal issue.
But go ahead and
this the issue is definitely cash I would say based on the
looks of it, the this is a good test, because it shows that this
is a challenge we need to solve that. Typically, an RSS feed you
don't need instantaneous updates from King is usually a good
thing, right? But for live notifications that are embedded
within the RSS and using pod ping, we need it to refresh and
also force all the clients that are going to pull from it to get
that that latest version. So we did have successful tests with
behind the schemes and ball after ball earlier this week. Oh
yeah,
no, I different sir Spencer's in the chat gone. I know this
works. It all works. You guys just don't know what you're
doing. Okay, Boomer.
See what the higher Spencer consultant is? Yes,
we do it. Here's the login you do it? Yeah, that's actually not
a bad idea. You know, sometimes I'm so tired after after longer
shows I make dumb mistakes. And when you make a dumb mistake on
the on the RSS feed, it's painful.
This is something that I need to talk to Alex about. Because we
know the caching thing has come up before we've discussed it.
And I'm thinking that we may want to change the spec, the
live or the status change spec within pod paying to maybe put
in put in a URL parameter or something at the end of the
cache buster.
Well, I check your phone if you have notifications enabled.
And do
so tell us about this part. Mitch, so pod verse now has
actual notifications popping up. When when your favorite podcast
goes live? Yeah, we
added notifications both for new episodes, which is a very
commonly requested feature and now with live feeds, you know,
live streams going live. And I did just receive a notification
on my phone. This is live podcasting. 2.0
Yes, I'm seeing that in the chat room now too. Cool.
Awesome. Why am I not getting it? I wonder if it's this phased
rollout or something?
Right. And so I know curio caster is working. But not for
me yet. So that's, you know, that can just be brave caching.
You know, caching is good and bad. Yeah. We'll figure this is
really good and bad. Yes.
If people go to pi.
I got it. Even says on air. Oh, cool.
Hell yeah.
Nice. I still don't have it yet. I wonder if you know if sorry.
No, that's, that's on the computer.
Oh, sweet. So, Mitch, does the does the bad thing. I'm running
the beta and testflight? Does it have separate notification
settings? Do you know on iOS?
I hope everyone's following along and going, you know, dude,
what are these dudes do and talk about stuff? You're just playing
on your phone? Yeah, this is crazy. Okay. So that works.
That's very cool. Mitch. Fantastic. Steven V. Fantastic.
I love this. And I'm gonna throw out another challenge. Speaking
of Alex gates for the board meeting in the board meeting
only. I just bought this fantastic camera for because I
do so many The podcast interviews my my lovely wife
finally said to invest in something gets this you look
like crap. And good for her. Yes. And so I got this. What is
it? Bob's bought? So it tracks and you know, so if you move to
the left or the right, it's suddenly kind of moves with your
head motion can follow you around the room but it's very
small works really well I'm extremely happy with it for K
fantastic. I want to stream at least my end video during the
board meeting more over the shoulder so you can see what I'm
doing then me because that would just be annoying to me.
You're gonna you're gonna
I want to I want to broadcast video. Through no agenda tube.
Oh,
I want that to go live.
Your brains? Man.
I have to do it because I gotta get stuff set up for Mo.
True is chomping at the bit, man? You gotta dive in at some
point.
See, Mike? Yeah, that's why we'll be focused on on the more
what I'm doing than me because the Tourette's? Yeah, the AI
just goes crazy. He doesn't know how to follow me. Now if they
could make a camera that would automatically smooth the motion,
so it didn't look like I had Tourette's the reverse. That
would be very cool.
That is that would be that would be a highly valuable camera.
Well, we're ready to add video live streams. Also, the only
blocker for that is that we don't have a stream to test
with.
Right. So that's, that's why I throw it out to Alex Gates, who
will tell me what I need to do what I need to get. And we'll
figure this out. We should be testing this, we should be
moving this forward. And this is the place to do it. And I'll
have a big shiny pair of scissors here on the desktop.
So, Mitch, do you? Do you want to walk and for the benefit of
everybody who's listening to this and has absolutely no idea
what we're talking about? Do you want to walk through the steps
that happened to happen on the backside now that now that you I
would like to hear use, like, give the linkage from step to
step of what happens when somebody goes live until the
point where it gets a notification on listeners
phones, because you just what you just went through all this
getting set up with sending pod pings and all that stuff. You
want to take a crack at that.
Sure thing. So if a podcaster wants to share their live stream
with every app, which is the beauty of podcasting, you put it
in an RSS feed and becomes available everywhere. They need
to add a new tag podcasting 2.0 tag called Live item to their
feed. And then our servers parse out that information like
normal. And when we find this feed says a live stream is going
live. What Oh, I missed this step, pod Ping has to notify us
that the live stream went live. So pod paying sends a signal to
us that tells us to parse the feed. And then we shoot off
notifications to every podcast app that is subscribed to that
live stream.
Cool. Yeah. So that so Hey, on the on the piping side, you got
set up, I'm guessing, I don't know if there's, I think Alex
that you are not Brian, those, they set you up with some hive
posting keys. So you're not you're not sending notifications
through pod bean dot cloud, because we are still on version,
point 0.3 of pod paying format. And the pod popping format. One
dot O is needed for the live notifications. So you got you've
got the new hive watcher, excuse me hive writer, script, and your
own set of Hive posting key. So you're writing directly to hive,
right?
Yeah, correct. Alex has been a huge help getting set up with
this. So we have our own pod ping writer running within our
server. And so podcasters currently go to our site and
click Start live stream. And that tells all podcasts apps
that this podcast is going live.
So what does that look like on the dashboard side? Like when
you go to
Excuse me? Can I just ask a question? So what exactly so I
issue a pod ping but I understand that my pod ping is
yesterday's news. And so right now as it as a as a bridge,
you've created a modern New version with the live pod ping
that alerts that goes to pod ping and alerts all apps or just
pod verse.
Well, the apps who listen to pod ping get these notifications
okay, they just have to opt in to be listening to pod ping. And
I guess my free app and RSS so should be doing these days.
Right so my so my question is right Now I can, you're
graciously making this available. But this should be
something that's available in sovereign feed should have the
live pod ping, other than the pod ping I have now that
Correct?
Correct. Okay. So sovereign feeds or any company that hosts
RSS feeds for podcasters should just make this a simple input
and a drop down, like, here's my live show description. My Status
is going live now. Hit Save, and then they should handle all this
stuff on the back end, the user shouldn't even be aware of it.
I have a question about your, in general, just the thinking about
this stuff. And since you're an app developer, but I'd love to
ask every app developer we're in essence recreating YouTube. And
I say that because in general, podcasts that go live, the
majority are live to YouTube, or actually multiple sources, you
know, Rumble other backups, whatever they call them. And
after that's done, and in our case, it's a little bit
different. But with YouTube, then it's, you know, after a
while, it appears as, as the uploaded, you know, the, you can
replay it, you can watch it as just a YouTube episode. But it
has chat, and it has super chat, which is booster grams that
we're using. Haven't seen many boosts by the way Hello. To me,
I should open up helipad, make sure I can hear him. So having
that in mind, and I don't know if you agree with what I'm
saying there. But that's kind of how it feels to me that this
will be used more for video, in fact, I think is a YouTube
killer with an open source YouTube killer with stuff that
we're doing. Have you considered a UX or UI change for a live
item? Versus the kind of traditional This is an episode?
View? Well, right now we fit it in with the current experience
of episode, but we make sure live goes to the top of the page
and is prominently there. That allows us to kind of seamlessly
fitted in to what we have currently up. But I mean,
hypothetically, we could start live dot pod verse.fm. And it
could be exclusively live streams. We could just, you
know, select only that data for shows that are live streams into
some. Yeah, that I mean,
well, that that so that immediately brings in, you kind
of walked into my trap. I wasn't even expecting that. That that
that brings up another thing. I don't know if if you followed lb
Oh, yeah, I just talked to Bumi. And yeah, the German Gomorrah,
it's Wednesday,
right? To lovely German guys. I don't know, um, but the German
guys, they're lovely. They are so close to basically having,
you know, a wallet for everybody to easily use with, you know, a
web based version of any podcast app, once they can, once they
identify, you know, so right now the identify the, what do you
call it? The, the address, the lightning address, and so they
understand, you know, they give you a lightning address. But
they if they see it on a page with a little lightning bolt,
then the extent the extension that is Alby recognizes that and
so you can you could do the payment information pops up
immediately. I presume that if we gave them away to within with
whatever, you know, HTML or code that you put into your page, an
identifier so they could pull up the value block from the from
the index piece API, then they could in essence become an you
know, we could onboard a lot of people who already have an lb.
Wallet, right into podcasting. 2.0. Does that make sense?
Yeah, that's my understanding. So if we integrate with lb,
which would just be as simple on our end as putting some text
information in the file. So right, just we don't have to
code anything complicated. You literally just take some V four
v tag information, right embedded in your page. And then
their browser extension can grab that information. And when you
pop open the browser extension, it'll just say, Hey, do you want
to send to this podcast?
So this is exciting to me? Because you remember, although
I'm still digging into the numbers, you might remember 40%
of women listen to podcast just on the website. Yeah. What an
opportunity. And I'll just say it again. It is my belief that
podcast apps have an incredible opportunity to deliver
beautifully designed home pages. And I would I would give you a
split in my valuable Lock for that. Because all the other
pages that generate a homepage and an episode page for RSS
feeds, they're all 1.0. It's like in the buttons for for
iTunes and all that shit stuff I don't want, you know, I want it
to be modern, I want it to, you know, all of that should go away
or be done in a different way. And I would pay for that I would
I put a split in for it for those services. And if that
could then automatically detect an lb wallet, big win.
Yeah, well, I need to know more about the design requirements
for that. But this LD solution will be easy for anybody to add
to any page. So you know, this wouldn't just be limited to
that, that like, I don't know, like feature page that you're
describing. I mean, this could go on anybody who wants to
enable podcasts and 2.0 value tags.
I love that. I really do. I think that's it for some reason,
because they do key sem just got I got really excited by it. And
I was like, Okay, this would be an excellent way to just expose
more people to what we're doing. So I want to welcome the lb lb
guys to, you know, to the group.
They really are here.
Yes. No, no, we love them. Exactly.
So you said I'll be does lightning but yeah, just key
send mean keys. And I'm sorry, but yeah. Send not receive send.
Oh, send? Okay, so yeah, so we're, because that was what I
was about to say we. So I went down the rabbit hole of working
with Roy.
Good because I started with Roy about this. And then and he was
explaining to me and said, well, it can be done. And I was like,
Man, you should talk to Dave. So you guys connected on this.
Yeah, it's funny because I didn't even know that you were
talking to him. And I was doing this in sort of independently.
We take baby we've been married for so long, you know that we
think the same
thing. Now we're gonna you know, those old old couples have been
married for like 40 years, it started to look a lot. Oh, yeah,
is that I'm gonna start getting killer hair really quick. Okay.
But the US like I was talking to you, you know, I mentioned it to
you and then started and then I went and posted an issue about
this because the lightning address stuff is great. Like
Ellen URL, the lightning address part of Ellen URL or with
layered on top of it is great. But it doesn't let you in the
background what it does when you go to when you take a well,
let's see. Let us go to lightning address real quick.
Lightning address is basically in it looks like an email
address. So you'd have like Dave at podcaster wallet.com. And
then what you do is you take in we talked about this with Oscar
last week, you take that thing that looks like an email address
and flip it around and then go to pod that becomes a URL.
Right? Right, right. HTTP as you know, slash last podcaster
wallet.com/dot Well dash known slash. And then it's like an ln
URL P
B. That's that's the tricky part. Are ln URL P for ln URL?
Pe? Yeah, that's the part that would need to get Kishen. And so
it's not quite as simple hooking up to your own node.
Yeah, because when you go through that same what's
happening on the back end is the URL in your is l and URL is
generating an invoice. Yep. And giving it back on that URL. So
what what's needed is a way for there to be is it for, for those
well known URLs to be resolved, and then give you back a static,
very much like a value block. Just give you back a set of
static payment. information. So we're working through that on
the telegram group, Roy and the guys in there, I'm not I've just
met these guys, I'm not super familiar with what all roles
they play. But they what, what it is looking like is there's
going to be instead of instead of just my original proposal,
which was taking in adding the static payment information as an
alt as part of the object return for the URL and URL p. Now,
what's going to happen is there'll be an alternative dot
well known URL scheme. So you'll have a that day that podcaster
wallet.com will become podcaster wallet.com/dot. Well known slash
key send slash DAVE Yes, exactly. That's what you want,
that will hand back the static, just a note, a name, a node
address, and potentially custom key custom value so that you can
do routing to a custodial wallet. That once we get that
nailed down in, in, in, in place, yeah, this gets a lot.
Now listen to this next bit how this shit all fits together.
Alright, so I get the update notification from Umbral. Right?
And I'm always excited about that. Like, let's see what they
did, first of all want to see if they've updated the helipad,
which appears to have and then there's always new apps. Well
tie perfect. And what shows up IPFS podcasting decentralized
podcast distribution over IPFS. And yeah, so we're so close to
putting all these pieces together. So it appears the way
they do it is you create a separate feed initially, to load
everything into the IPFS network. And then you you can
use a a gateway for your regular RSS feed. It sounds a little
convoluted, but the way I what I looked at their FAQ and there's
there's no contact information. I wish there was a guy wanted to
get in touch with him. We'll find him. I think this is the
alternate enclosure use case. Yeah. I mean, this makes so much
sense. And it's right in the umbrella. Now you get into
something pretty interesting. You're starting to put a nice
little box together.
Yeah. Now, what I see is a humongous, like, truck size
basket of scissors is what this this is, this is more scissors
than you would find at a Hobby Lobby. I mean, we can't even get
lost off the ground. Trying to troubleshoot caching on IPFS
I've been down the IPFS road. It hurts. Well, bad.
I think I'm gonna sharpen up a pair. And I'm gonna I'm gonna
take a walk down that road just to see how it feels. I can't
help myself.
Mitch, do you? Do you know or want or love or hate IPFS?
I don't know much about it other than conceptually that it's
like, it's unsensible distributed content.
It's, it's like a DHT for files. A humongous glugging global DHT
for files. And then you can see you can I couldn't tell you what
DHT means? Like, yeah, yeah, I approach things from more of a
user experience. And then I like cobbled together some code.
This is good. So let me tell you the user experience. I haven't
Umbral and I'm actually thinking heli pad does this heli pad pops
up a different homescreen maybe the first time it says you can
podcast all right from this box and has a link to sovereign
feed. And then you record your shit. And then you go to your
browser with sovereign feeds and then somehow it automatically
uploads the mp3 file just recorded from the computer
you're on it puts it on your own bro puts it on IPFS does a live
pod pay whatever does all these different things gets you all
set up on the value block. Your feed is immediately entirely 2.0
enabled. Then there you have it podcasting in a box with money
washes your hair put some put Julie on your feet. Yeah,
I'm just telling you this is an avenue and it's it's no
different from Castor pod, just different version different you
know, different pieces actually. All of this might fit in
perfectly I don't know. I just I and I agree with you about the
IPFS stuff. We've had nothing but heartache. But this is
working for somebody somehow and it feels like is it for the ICL
for for I get the newsletter, I'm always reading it. And for
the IPFS diehards. I think it works just as well as lightning
does for us.
Yeah, that's a good that's actually a really good analogy.
That's actually a pretty good analogy because like yeah, if
you get off your fence newsletter, the world's great
yeah. Holman. I mean, people you know, people are landing on the
moon It's
also well, it's not that different. If you look at the
lightning labs, PR releases, you know,
you just ignore the all the failed payments and just keep
moving on. Yeah,
we're gonna work I have a beautiful world, we're going to
be transporting stablecoin Oh, that'd be backed by Luna by any
chance because that's worth nothing now.
Can you please explain to me what? What happened? I know you
understand it more than I do. Because what means there's some
stable coin that went from like a buck apiece down to zero. What
happened this week?
Okay. Roy and I even talked about this and Roy's like, I
don't know. Okay, thanks, Roy
makes me feel better, because I don't know he's
so stable coins. The idea is they're pegged to a fiat
currency, which means, instead of selling your as an example,
if you wanted to buy, you've got Bitcoin, you want to buy some
ether. Now you can do a direct trade, but maybe you just want
to keep it in dollars for a bit because the market, if you're a
trader, this is all about trading stuff, if the markets
volatile, or there are other scenarios for stable coins, then
you can exchange it for a stable coin, which will be just like $1
Only, there's no, there's no possibly no capital gains, hey,
there's all kinds of reasons to kind of keep it in this digital
realm. And the ideas, the stable coin is about $1, it might be
99.9999 for a minute, and some actually will go 1.01. And this
is done in many ways. But the most important thing is it has
to be backed by something in case people want to cash out the
stable coin into dollars. So typically, that's done by huge
hedge fund type deals, they've got billions of dollars. And,
you know, they may in which they may have some, this is the this
was the problem with the tether, you know, some may be backed by
some securities and not just pure cash. And then there's ways
that they can manage the supply of the stable coin, to keep that
peg in place. So they're doing it by expanding or contracting
the supply as far as I understand.
And who is de is that the,
the company that owns the stable coin. So in, in us t Tara USD
the stable coin, it was backed by Luna, which was a, you know,
another altcoin I won't use the S word. And something happened,
because the Luna as far as I understand, there was backing of
the Luna by Bitcoin. So when Bitcoin started to go down, they
couldn't really liquidate fast enough or enough to have enough
cash to prop up the the Luna coin. And on top of that, the
Terra the the way they manage their supply. So basically
minting new tokens or burning them, destroying them was
algorithmically done. So they had an algo that was supposed to
keep this going and something happened. And we'll find out
eventually, in general, though, this has far reaching
consequences. It's not really a laughing matter. And stable coin
by itself, in my opinion, needs to be regulated or outlawed
because it's really inflationary to the US dollar. I mean, it's
okay with me from a Bitcoin perspective. Go ahead, you know,
create more eventually, we'll see what happens in the end. I
have my beliefs, but I don't think that's really a good thing
for the US dollar. So that explained anything. Did that
explain anything?
Yeah, no, that explained it perfectly. Janet Yellen. Agree.
And I,
and I couldn't be yes, it was a board needed attack to,
like, also possible. Yeah, that's also possible. Somebody
may
have accumulated all of this and then deliberately dumped it on
the market. And that, then the Peg, Yeah, value with other
assets could hold anymore. And that just became cascading
failure, down to, I think, point 0003 cents right now.
Yeah. And we're gonna see more of these horrible things happen
as across the board. I mean, I'm a believer, I hear the World
Economic Forum. They say the great reset, I believe them
because there's been too much that's happening that makes
sense in that regard. And when Apple lost 20% This week, okay,
that was the last company that really was holding on to
something. So we're going into some form of negative economic
spiral, or perhaps a recession, who knows? And it's all just
terms, but the cheap money is gone. And that's what happens
when the Federal Reserve raises interest rates. So that's what
slows down house prices because No, I got a mortgage at just
under 3%. Now you can't get one under five.
Then that happened quick. That happened very, very.
The 10 year The interest rate has doubled in just four months.
I mean, so there's a lot going on. But what that mainly means
is that no more cheap money, no more cheap money means, well,
where do you see it happen first? Netflix? Why? Because
they could just get all the cheap money because shit was
just growing. And then when the economy slows down a little bit
as people start to make choices, particularly when the markets
saturated, well, you know, Netflix hasn't really done all
that much for me, I like Marvel Cinematic Universe, so I get my
Disney plus, and maybe I'll have Hulu. I'm not, I don't think
that people will easily go back to the advertise the
interruptive advertising model, which is, in fact, Netflix's
strategy to get out of this, because people have been
spoiled. So not only is it money, that's cheap like that,
but money that's cheap for companies, for marketing, that's
the first place your money always gets cut. The budgets are
always cut in marketing, advertising, advertising,
everything. And I know a lot of people in advertising and
marketing, they're they're firing entire teams, because the
clients are cutting back budgets. And then so you've I
mean that now you see the spiral. Now you got people out
of work, and all these things started to happen. So when I
also hear about some magical number of podcast advertising
being at $1.4 billion over 22 years, I'm sorry, there's a
couple things one, where's the money going? Who's getting this?
I mean, I Heart Radio 65 million. Okay, that's not even
near a portion of the big money. And I think most of this is
just, it's, I mean, I'd have to really delve into the numbers,
but I don't believe that there's $101.4 billion roaming around
podcasting. And that 85% of that is programmatic ad insertions. I
just have a hard time believing it. But regardless, it's a
trailing indicator. It's a trailing indicator of a
different year. And I don't think you're going to see good
news coming out of podcasts is going to be the first place
they'll cut.
I would like to companies
looking at Oh, sorry. No, no hidden Mitch. I was gonna say
any large companies trying to get into podcasting, seeing it
as a potential cash cow aren't just in for disappointment.
That's another
thing is no one's making any profit. Spotify is not making
profit, I Heart Radio, not making profit, no one's
profiting.
Right. And what podcasting is good for is, you as an
individual or a small group, want to reach your audience
directly, as directly as possible. And then you build a
relationship with them. And then they, out of their own choice
basically decide to support you either through getting your
premium content may be able to get advertisers involved, but
the idea of a giant corporation being able to make revenue to
their satisfaction, you know, as publicly traded companies with
billions of dollars, I don't see it happening. You know, Facebook
scrapped their plans after a year. Yeah, those
guys know that you they can't make money with you can't
monetize the network. They figured it out real quick that
like, this is not going to work for us. And it's going to be a
pain in the ass because everyone's going after
podcasters because you know, they're the disinformation the
mega disinformation giants.
Well, this, this fits it. I'd like to have the board's
attention for a moment. Okay,
hold on a second. Dave Jones pod sage has the talking stick.
Port a point of personal privilege. I would like to speak
momentarily about brand safety.
brand safety is on the table so seconded and move okay.
You know, the thing that Tom, Tom Webster was interviewed on
pod land yesterday, and I heard as a as a general rule, I don't
usually play potluck clips. But I brought some today and I mean,
Tom Webster. He seems like nice dude. I've never met him but
none of this is a criticism with him. I mean, he's seems like a
fine guys ad, you know, Advertising Research guy.
He's a radio guy. He's an old time radio guy.
Yeah. So you know, you can go into he's talking in this first
clip about hearing Todd Cochran show for the first time and that
that's what attracted him initially not Do you want to
explain who he is? He just can't he was from Edison Research and
led a lot of their research efforts on radio and podcasting
and I think other types of media too but sure, those two for
sure. And then he just left and went over to join Brian
Barletta, which sounds profitable.
Now is sounds profitable. Is Cridland, also a partner in
that?
I don't really understand the relationship. James will have to
explain that but I mean, I thought they were all part of
the same. That's
what I thought too. I tried to look the other day couldn't
figure it out.
Yeah, it's, I mean, I think his I think it all comes from the
same newsletter generator because they all right, they all
have the same format. Right. But, um, but I think sounds
profitable started as a as an imprint of, of pod pod news.
Right? Yeah. But I could have that all wrong. Anyway, he, you
know, he's, he's talking about Todd Cochran show geek news,
central being way, way back being the first show that he
heard, and what attracted him to it in this first
clip? Yeah, it's geek News Central podcast Hall of Famer,
Todd Cochran. I'm pretty sure that was the first podcast that
I discovered, and it was really early days, it's probably the
very end of 2004. And Todd was just getting started. But he was
talking about things that you weren't going to hear on
broadcast radio. And at that time, a lot of my portfolio was
broadcast radio, and
yeah, so what what he's saying brought, you know, interested in
him and got him sort of hooked into podcasting was this idea
that what he heard, he's like, I'm hearing stuff on podcast
that you can't hear in mainstream media. That was the
thing that brought him in. And that's the thing that brings a
lot of people in because you feel like you're getting a
chance to hear people as they really are, or maybe views about
things that you didn't get did or more sanitized and curated on
mainstream media. For a lot of people. That's a big draw. And
evidently, it was for him to and that, then that leads them to
this discussion of advertising in that net prediction this
week. That was like, I don't know, but 2024 $44 billion.
Yeah. So he's got he's what's funny about this is he like, he
totally walks away from that. He's like, he's like, I'm not
touching that with a 10 foot pole. It No, he, he's not going
near that prediction. Instead, instead, he starts talking about
the barriers to money flowing into podcasting and clip to
talking of advertising. We're getting to see the IAB
advertising the sixth annual report saying that the next
couple of years, certainly by 2024, we're going to see a four
fold increase in the revenues from podcasting. Is that
something that you will sing Edison as well as that growth in
brands coming to podcasting,
it's still got a ways to catch up. And I'm not a big
forecaster, my career has been based on describing the present
day, as accurate as I can. So I don't know that it's going to
increase fourfold. I know that won't happen by itself. And
that's something that Brian and I are going to be very focused
on that sounds profitable, is to remove as many obstacles as we
can to those dollars getting into podcasting, because right
now, if you look at the dollars flowing into podcasting, versus
the dollars flowing into broadcast radio, and you compare
the listening to the to podcasting is still punching way
below its weight I saw, I Hart's revenues were announced this
week. And podcasting was I think, 8% of their overall
revenue. Maybe that should be higher, right. I don't think
revenues are going up and radio. So I think it will get there. I
don't know the timeline that it will get there, but it will get
there when some of the obstacles to monetizing all of podcasting,
I think are removed and and the way is smoothed.
Yeah. I see a lot of money going into brands pod brand
podcasting. I wonder if that's getting counted. I see like lots
of money going to sports podcasting. Is that a fair
representation of adverts quote unquote, advertising money going
into podcasting or as an extension of a brand that as I
think you're pointing out, is really not what a lot of people
like about podcasting because it's an extension of an existing
entertainment product in an in a in the traditional system. Does
that makes sense? Dave? Muted Dave.
Oh, um, that back crap. Pulled a Mitch. Yeah. Sorry, Mitch. That
was
it. Just Just so you guys know. I mean, the noise gate keeps out
a lot. And we heard your dog barking tape. It's okay. It's
cute.
Oh, well, no, I agree. I mean, this you're talking about like
ESPN launches. 10 podcasts. Well,
even even the NBA has their own podcast series, I believe.
Yeah, then so you then you're selling to advertisers. You say
oh, you're gonna buy you're gonna buy our TV you also have
to buy podcasts.
Yeah, that's that's how Spotify does it with their deals. Well,
you know you have to buy Joe Rogan if you want to even buy
anything on our network.
You know, when the thing that I started Thinking about actually
turn the turn the interviewer off started thinking about
because he talks about lowering the barriers, that lowering the
obstacles to to money flowing into podcasting. And
some money just flowed into podcasts.
And, and that's that got me thinking, turn it off. I thought
about that for a minute. Because that was that was an interesting
description. And I think that we have this, I think there's a
milieu, the you know, your favorite or your favorite word
now move you million of you that these ideas that permeate our
frame of reference, or that aren't really, they're rarely
spoken, or sometimes not spoken at all. But I hate to say taken
for granted. Because it's not, it's not really a great phrase.
But there's there are things at work that we take for granted
that we take for granted and become comfortable with as as an
ideas as a part of the ideas set within the thing that we're
involved in. And podcasting is no different. You know, it's
similar to something like freedoms or something like free
speech. People within the quote unquote free speech, community,
free speech zone, space, space, free speech space, if free
speech absolutist
absolute Yes, yes. And people who care about that I would
count myself as one of them. We assumed things, like, one thing
you might assume is, is that everyone who is is giving their
their ideas publicly believes they're true, that that might be
a thing that you share, and it is unspoken, and we all just
sort of take it for granted. And so then our frame of reference
then becomes influenced by that where we think okay out, because
we think that people are just honestly trying to speak their
the thing that they think is true. outlawing that thing is,
is unconscionable, because you're criminalizing even though
they might be wrong, you're criminalizing being wrong. These
things begin to they permeate your, your, your your group or
your milieu, and did and then you but they're not spoken out
loud. And I think that's something similar is going on
here. Sort of like what goes in and own in a newsroom where you
just sort of pick up over time this, okay, you don't you don't
report on this sort of thing, or you do report on this sort of
thing. Or when you do report on this thing. You you say these
phrases
or or anything that goes wrong in the United States is Trump's
fault. Yes. previous administration. Yeah. And
you say it out loud, you know, in because everybody else is
doing it that way. is I think something similar is going on?
Yes. I think that's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Yeah, it's in what is the unspoken thing is brand safety?
Yes. In the brand safety is the obstacle that I think that he's
talking about. And I'm not sure that he even is aware that he's
talking about that thing.
Well, okay, so thank you for bringing this up. All that money
that is being spent on podcasting is going into in many
cases is going and this will also start to dry up with the
cheap, free money being free, cheap to free money being gone.
Now. There are some podcasts who that cost $1,000 $2,000 $5,000
to make. And the only way you get that back is by assuming
I'll use the password in this case, assuming that there's
going to be advertising for that. And that may be for a few
shows. But it you know, I don't care what the Obama said. I
believe Spotify cut them loose because they had no way to
monetize them. People just truly were not interested in listening
to what they had to say, or those particular productions.
I've never seen well in the very beginning. Oh, it's number one.
Michelle Obama's podcast but then it was like, Oh, now every
app can use it because you know, it's important message no is
because you needed reach for your advertisers, which was tied
in Downey or whatever. Sorry, Mitch. Hey, are you related?
We don't have any advertisements. It's not us
pod verse pods.
So so there's this this very typical Hollywood type vibe of
and I put Cleveland and you know, the pod land and the
Bartlett I put them all in that kind of that category, because
what they report on all day Ong is big names, reasonably big
names, big media companies creating new podcasts, all kinds
of great different genres and in all kinds of things that are not
cheap, because these people are getting at least the host.
They're getting paid. There's lots of money that's gone into
this. And what we see is no one is profiting from it yet. So
they're in this flywheel of look, I got a job now. And now I
don't know anyone's situation, personally. But I just question
if, if you can keep creating big, anything over $5 is big to
me. You know what I mean? That's,
that's why I bring it that's why I bring it up is because I feel
like I think that that is the milieu that permeates through a
lot of the podcasting press. And so they they talk about these
things with met, perhaps not even realizing what's really
going on under the surface. The language is there.
And that's the only stuff that will get any advertising is the
completely brand safe, scripted, be upfront presented. Everybody
know, this is grow. These are very serious people. You know,
there's never going to be an F bomb or something controversial
and of course, that still happened. See any show from
gimlet? Right. It's it's unavoidable, and advertisers shy
away from that you're so right.
And here's the here's the kicker. Let me bring it home. So
clip three. He's Sam asked him a question. He talked about the
bear removing the barriers in the previous, his previous
statement. So Sam just says, you know, what, what are the
barriers?
Yeah, I think there's tremendous opportunity for programmatic
advertising in podcasting. And right now it's getting it's
getting a bad rap. And it's getting that for two reasons.
Number one, I think a lack of understanding of what it can do.
But also, I think, a lack of execution, the programmatic got
a lot better on things like Facebook, your Facebook ads
seven or eight years ago, were absolutely terrible. And now I
don't think a week goes by that I either don't buy or I'm
tempted to buy something I see on Facebook.
So yeah, sorry. Yeah, no, yeah. He says, he asked him, What are
the barriers? And he says, he starts talking about
programmatic ads. That's an odd jump to make, from what are the
barriers to political answer. It's how politician answers
stuff. Here's the
mental job, let me map it out for you. Here's the middle jump
advertising means it needs increase, it means increased ad
spending. This is how you get this is how you remove barriers
in your you increase ad spending to bring more money into
podcasting, that requires volume, because there's not
enough big shows to do it on their own. Yep, that means
selling to more small shows. The only way to do that is with
programmatic. And that inherently means brand safety
concerns because you're buying in volume across many, many,
many small shows. And that's the barrier, that that mental
progression right there. That is the barrier to ad dollars coming
into podcasting in the way that they talk about it. That because
you you have we're at the point now where there's not enough big
shows to to sit to bring in the big money. So you have to go
volume. And that inherently means brand danger. Yeah. And I
think that's what led that is also behind him, again, maybe
not consciously what's going on with like a cast announcing
their conversational targeting and that kind of thing. This is
all about identifying, trying to make programmatic better,
because that's how you target. That's how you target the small
1000s of small shows at once in and try to do it in a way that
doesn't kill your brand. That's putting it next to bad stuff.
I just don't see them being sincere not Not, not these guys
specifically. But the if there's an industry, which I don't
believe I think there's just apps, no industry, no podcast
industries apps. If they're sincere about it, then why is it
still I mean, the transcripts are the perfect way to get your
content context and maybe catch some words or, or maybe unknown,
there's, I've been told AI is magic. So that should be able to
be used, but there's no real push towards the implementation
of transcripts, either. I'm not even sure that you know, that
Amazon, wasn't Amazon going to do that in the background and
then use that I don't think anyone's doing it.
Well, you know, the idea that we're or that gets talked about
is this idea of put putting things into transcripts so that
you can search for keywords to sell against, but in that may be
true to a certain extent, but I think it's equally if not more
about identifying keywords to avoid Yeah,
yeah. Yeah, exactly. weigh in here. I like to say that up,
podcasts are shows you can listen to in any app, that this
is what differentiates podcasting from legacy media,
which is that legacy media had to go through centralized
channels that have the authority to release it or not release it
or censor it. And these large brands prefer that safety,
because they have somebody they can reach and make sure is
filtering the content that goes out. So that's why these brands
go to that. But podcasting is kind of the opposite of that.
It's it's RSS based, it's open in nature. And so yeah, they're,
they're not going to get what they're looking for, from
podcasting, what they want are exclusives, which really are
different from legacy media. They want conclusive content
that is with one brand that they can talk to one company, and
they can negotiate or say, Hey, you have to cut this content.
But that's not what podcasting is. So, you know, I know they
say we have podcasts, like on Spotify, but in the traditional
sense of the word they don't, or at least their exclusive content
is not truly a podcast. I mean, it's no different in my opinion,
than a Netflix series. If you have exclusive show on Netflix,
why not just call that a podcast
to here's, here's the beautiful thing, because history has
shown. And my favorite example is always AOL, that you give
people a beautifully walled garden, and it's all nice and
safe. And it's brand safe, and it's good. And, you know, the PG
13 stuff is labeled, but you give people a little opening and
say, but by the way, you know, there's this internet over here
will give you a browser, but you have to click on all these
dialogues and say I'm okay because I might see porn or I
might see a bad word or it might not work properly. And within a
year, everyone was just sucked right out of that portal and AOL
became a dial up company. It's going to be people want the
danger? We inherent we love it. We love the danger. Oh my god, I
can't believe it. This. Twitter is a game of who can say the
most outrageous shit about someone else, preferably, until
they get the platform. What can you do on you? And it's an it's
a game between the creator and the audience at this point, oh,
I can't believe you did that, oh, you're gonna get a strike.
You know, it's, it's sad to watch. And what's interesting is
I realized in this past week, and I believe advertising,
always equal censorship, even if it's just not being able to talk
about a competing brand or but you put filters in so you don't
piss off your advertisers. I've done it all my life, I
understand it. Had to two people I've worked with, and I like,
we're deep platformed. And for different reasons. But the
bottom line is, if you have something of value, that you
don't control, they, they, the masses can and probably will
take it from you. Because always someone who doesn't like you,
there's always someone who disagrees and has a different
way of solving things. And whether it's a YouTube channel,
whether it's an advertiser, whether it's a board seat on the
podcast Academy, if it's something that can be taken
away, eventually, it most likely will be what they can take away.
Is your RSS feed. I mean, yet technically, you can get down to
the server level, but that's unlikely. And even then, you
know, we'll deal with IPFS but they can't take away or or, or
modify or change your feed your mp3. And now with podcasting 2.0
Your potential to survive financially, financially? I love
what we're doing.
Yeah. And that gives an out because it's almost, it's
necessary. And that's kind of where this ends up is that it's,
it's, it's necessary to have this even podcasting 2.0 has
never been ad advertising hostile in the sense that that
advertising has to fail in order for podcasting 2.0 or value for
value to succeed. That's not No, not at all. Not at all. Not at
all. It's never been the case and brands it because brand
safety is not inherently a bad thing. Like if I had, if I have
some product in the future, and I want to buy some advertising
for it. There's going to be content that I don't want it to
be seen against and that's it. That's me. Yeah, I don't want
that. But the more important question is, does brand safety
lead to healthy outcomes or to Truth Truth, the outcomes for
content and society. Yeah, true? Because and I would argue that
the answer to that is no, because that's not his job brand
safety, his job is to protect the brand by safety for the
brand. Yeah. And that's not that's inherently not, not has
doesn't have anything to do with whether the content is true. So
that that's you almost you have to have these out the podcast
and people know has to exist for that for this very reason that
you're going to have, you're going to have brand safety and
sometimes you sometimes brand safety is good, but it's good
for the brand. It's not good for the subject matter in and of
itself and objective sense.
I completely agree. And I see what's going on and I see. D
platforming so fucking evil. It's, it's so lame, you know,
and the only way to protect yourself is just have nothing of
value. The only thing that is a value that I don't control is my
my Twitter handle that still has some value to me. But everything
else now there's nothing and see the shit I say been an
additional D platform isn't what are you going to take? What are
you going to do?
Yeah, it's, I think I think it's in the long run. I think there's
two industries, pretending to be two pretending to be one
industry. Yes, there's open podcasting, open RSS,
podcasting. And then there's advertising based podcasting.
And some, if you if you have a Venn diagram of both, there's a
little bit of overlap in the middle, where all the big shows
exist, that are non exclusive. And otherwise, they're really
not. There's really not a whole lot of overlap. And you can you
can tell, which, you know, by by who you're listening to, you can
see which part of the which industry they're from, are they
from open RSS? Are they from advertising, right? You can just
hear it in in the way that people speak. And it's not a
it's not a slam on anybody. It's just just the way it is the way
the industry has, it has turned in that direction. And
podcasting takes a long time for things to catch on and for
things to grow in this unexpected moments like the
serial podcasts, unexpected moments that give it a super
boost boost. And we and we will see that but our secret weapon
is, you know, Spotify can't buy all the hosting companies.
Yeah, and the secret the secret weapon is also like pod verse.
Yeah,
exactly. Yeah, exactly. We have all these different apps and new
ideas, fresh ideas, things that may have a very small user base,
but it doesn't matter. Everybody can survive and the whole
ecosystem benefits no one benefits from from a spotlight
from the Michelle Obama podcast, Mitch downy had no way to
benefit from that. Nor did nor does he Stephen V. Nord is
Stephen B. You know, or or, or Roy, no one had a way to benefit
not Roy wouldn't doesn't put those non value podcasts in his
app. But you understand what I'm saying? There's no benefit
there. So you just fucking the system. That was the whole
problem to start with. That's why we had no apps.
Well, we do it for the love of podcasting.
Oh, please. Oh, shut up. Mitch. You liar. Do it for money. I
know. You're doing it for money. I know what's right. The
mountains of dough, you're just swimming in like Scrooge McDuck.
They're diving into your, your, your cash pile?
Yeah, that's what I've been doing for eight years.
I hear your brother, I'm a podcaster. I hear
that but
we're able to move so quickly and do things that were not
possible. Or that the other big brands wouldn't even pursue like
value payments?
Or the LIVE TAG? Yeah. Or
the live tag or pod paying
look at look at how revolutionary pod ping is. It'll
take a bit but eventually, polling will be so Boomer. Yeah,
it should be we need to get everybody on pod being as soon
as possible. It is such a game changer.
Can I Can I ask you? Can I ask you about that, Mitch, because I
want to ask you about in your syncing with the index. I want
to ask because, well, a couple of things. How are you doing
that currently, because I'm noticing some old feeds that
that are dead now that are still showing up? That'll be number
one. What can I ask a question, first of all, Mitch, why is
Mitch syncing with the database and not using the API or syncing
with the API? It is all you're syncing with the API. Okay, but
you're syncing. So you have you use your own copy of the
database for your for the app accesses,
yes. Before podcasting 2.0 existed, we had our own database
and parser setup. And we had about 50,000 podcasts in our
database. And we couldn't scale up to do much more than that,
because of all of the problems associated with polling RSS
feeds. And then once you guys made the podcasts index, Dave,
expose some endpoints for us, we now pull the API on a schedule,
like every 15 minutes or something. And we pull in all of
the feeds that have that your system has detected and
updating, and that signals to our system to run our parsers
over it. So we started with 50,000. Now we have over 5
million, and that would be impossible. For us on our
budget, we don't have a budget to be able to accomplish
without, you know, without you guys doing the heavy lifting of
detecting updates, and also listening to updates with POD
bean and Pub Sub and whatever other approaches you're using.
Okay, so that. So in light of that, how are you detecting
which feeds that we marked dead? Because I'm not sure that that's
that that's syncing correctly?
It's not flawless? It's crazy, because I wrote it.
No, stop.
You're good? Well, it is running on a schedule. If there were
downtime, we could miss updates. There's other potential bugs,
like maybe the list was too long at a moment, and we didn't
paginate through the whole thing. It's something I need to
revisit, right now, as people report that there's issues we
manually correct it. But we do have automated we I think it
listened to the dead podcasts or dead feeds endpoint. I just
fixed the bug recently where there's tricky issues like you
had two feeds that were for the same podcast in podcast index.
And then at a later point, you changed the RSS URL that was for
the new version of that podcast back to the old ID.
Was that Jensen feed? Was that what that was there?
Maybe there's so many shenanigans in ours.
Oh, no, it was Mike. Doc. hotbox. And was Mike Tyson.
Actually, that's the one I remember.
Oh, that I didn't do that one manually. That must be the new
automated redirect. Redirect changer. Yeah.
Okay, well, I found, I think I have a fix for that I like do a
lookup to help match it. But so it's not a perfect syncing
operation. It does seem to work, like 99.9% of the time,
hey, if you're hitting nothing, if you're hitting the high 90s
and RSS world, you're doing pretty good. I mean, you're you
know, that's, that's fine, usually. But what can I do to
help because I want do I just need because, you know, I
started producing a dead feeds list. I don't know if you've
seen that. It's just an object storage. And so you can just
download it, it just literally lists out every dead feed in the
entire index as one humongous file. You can download that and
just blow through it and just mark everything dead.
Yeah, that could be useful. Okay. Is there a different state
though, where it's like a dead feed, but it gets, like switched
to another feed or switch to another ID?
Yes, there's a there's, there's the dead flag. And then there's
a duplicate of and so if it's got a dip, that's what I'll send
you the URL for that object storage file, because it's, it
lists out every dead feed ID. And then if it also, if that
dead feed ID was replaced, or or should be is a duplicate of a
different feed, it will point you to the ID of that feed.
Okay. Yeah, something like that would help. To be honest. I
haven't put as much time into the thinking because it just
seems to work well enough for now. But I think what I need to
do is like, map it out our whole infrastructure and all of our
thinking operations and how they work. And just like put all the
pieces on the table and see how we can improve it.
Because it always comes up because when I use pod verse to
search for podcasting, 2.0 I always see the podcasting 2.0
sandbox feed they're listed in that one's been dead for like
months. So they'd always always so paying you for
if, if that was before, we added the dead feeds endpoint. Because
we are deleting feeds. We're listening to an endpoint and
podcasts index If that was that happened later. So there could
be like a whole era of feeds that has not been addressed. But
what you're saying with if you just have a dump of the whole
dead feeds list that we could, you know, have a job, make it
run for a day or something, and go through the whole thing.
Yeah, that might be Yeah, it's, I'll send you the URL, and
maybe, you know, it may be useful for you to, you may find
that you've got like, so many that can be killed and just then
take some load off.
You know, what's really open source, sends your pull requests
now. Pull requests, and please anybody who wants to help with
this, we are all open source. And as you can tell, I could use
some help. We're at max capacity. But it's a lot of fun.
That's, that's another thing I wanted to ask you. This, okay.
So the other thing I want to ask you, as far as, you know, an
answer as much of this as you want and as little as you want,
but when it comes to, you know, you pay for premium pod verse
every month. And are y'all doing? Just are y'all doing
okay? I mean, financially, are you? You know, are you able to
pay the bills? I mean, how's that going for you?
We're doing okay, in the sense that as long as I have a day
job, I can afford it. It's not unmanageable. It's actually
remarkably cheap for how like, like, supporting 5 million
podcasts and having iOS Android F Droid and web and all the
stuff we do, but we're not making a profit yet. And
hopefully, we'll get there we're not profit motivated. That's not
central. Like I just have this assumption that we keep getting
better and you know, just keep improving and eventually we'll
turn a corner with that. But you know, I'm not the world's best
marketer either. I prefer sitting in front all your
target to do genius marketer, so
you're in the right place, my friend before I,
lest I forget Mitch, would you please email me right now a
wallet credential so that I can put you in the split for today's
show? This is something we need to ask up front Dave, we need to
we need to guest a guest sheet
and into intake form and intake
form. There you go.
i There's there's trouble with that. My Umbral node does not
have channels set up right now.
Do you have any do you have any wallet somewhere?
I do. Oh, we do have a standard bitcoin wallet. No, no,
no, no, that won't work.
I can
we can give you a LM pay wallet.
Oh, you know what I can do shit. Can I just set it up? Give him a
Akira for sovereign fees wallet.
Oh yes, brand new. You can test that out too. Well, while we're
while we're running with scissors this breakout some more
scissors it's cool.
Go to sovereign feeds.com Mitch and then it'll ask you for an
email address it'll send you a token when you click on wallet
that is I think and then it'll give you a wallet and the
details send those to me and and you even get stats
All right cool. I'll do that during the donations segment yes
sovereign the sovereign fees what and if you've seen it Dave
The was pretty cool. I mean, it's got boost and stream
history and booster grams separately listed.
I haven't had a chance to look at it Can you can you describe
like what it's like when you I mean where does it exist in
Yugoslavia and seeds.
So if you go to to have you been to sovereign foods lately,
yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, I was there a couple days ago and is
there you see those right before he did
okay, so there should be I think when you hit it before before
you even get in it asks you to give your email address we're
gonna set up a wallet If not click the Sign In button on the
right I think
okay, so because because the way I usually get there is I go to I
go to curio caster and then I'd
no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no sovereign feeds.com Oh,
listen. Oh, sovereign feeds is a whole a whole environment. It's
an operating system.
Yeah. So sovereign feeds was settings Turn on RSS editor.
No, no, that's curio caster go to sovereign feeds.com.
Man,
I felt like I'm just it's this is very disappointing. Actually.
While you're doing that, Mitch, I'd like to ask you a question.
And I also listened to the Tom Webster pod line interview. And
within that interview, there was another you know, the discovery
thing always comes up. This is another millio thing like well,
once we get discovery, you know, once we have discovery better
done, and it appears To me that pod verse, but also fountain FM,
have invested heavily as in resources in Eclipse is that?
For me, the thinking behind that has always been that is a
discovery mechanism. Is that how you view it?
Absolutely. I think of that whenever people talk about
discovery, people are looking for like a magic AI solution
that's going to just like push their podcast in front of
people, and that that's going to draw people in. And that's going
to be the key to their success. But I think the real key is you
need a really high quality podcast. And you need people to
spread the word for you. There's just such an oversaturation. I
mean, it's good that there are so many podcasts, but like,
people don't really listen to podcasts unless somebody tells
them or they hear from one podcast recommends another one.
So clip sharing is, I think, the most useful way for, for getting
introduced to a podcast and potentially getting interested
in it. So that was actually what pod verse started as. Right,
right to be a simple podcast clip sharing platform, which is
now turned into a Cross Platform podcast app that does just about
everything. It does, yeah. Yeah. But that is the core experience
that, you know, I was, I got into podcasting, like 2009. I've
was like, I really liked it. I liked it as an alternative to
mainstream television media. And the thing that that I wrestled
with, though I didn't like I couldn't share that with other
people that like, people could talk about, oh, Game of Thrones
or Breaking Bad are some shows that everybody watches. But, you
know, podcasting was like really, like specific to you as
an individual in which you listened to. So I wanted an easy
way to share clips, to introduce, you know, maybe I
hear something funny or enlightening, and I wanted to
share it with people. So, yeah, I think that that gets under,
that's just not discussed enough. When people talk about
discoverability, I feel like you want to create viral content.
And that's a short clip that people can share everywhere.
To me. No one has really quite cracked that nut yet. And I'm
not sure what it is i i love sending myself clips for noon,
which is really no more than a time code. For me that's a curio
Castle does that I'm perfectly fine with that. There's, I think
we're just missing opportunities, like overcast, I
get a lot of overcast chairs. When it comes in the emails,
it's so there's so much opportunity there to get
midnight, I don't have iOS, but for for for all of the apps to
get me to have a different experience than what I'm seeing.
And not that I can explain it. But have you have you looked at
because everyone does it a little bit differently? What do
you think is the perfect model and I agree with you. And that
may be part of the the millio of the industry is well you know,
once we have discovery, but we're never gonna have YouTube
like discovery, it's just that's just not the nature of the
beast. But there's there's sharing on social media, which
is one type of sharing, which I think needs a certain type of
experience if it's on Twitter or Mastodon or face bag or anywhere
else. And then there's the person to person through email
or you know this, there's different ways you can share. I
totally agree with the human part. What are we looking at for
how that's sent? And how that stored how people can go back
and find more? I mean, that by itself, and I asked you
specifically because you started out that way. What is What do
you see the formula? Do you think you've you've got it yet?
Or is there something some magic ingredients still missing?
I do think there's a magic ingredient missing. It already
exists though. It's the podcast sound bite tag. And we so the
sound bite tag is part of the podcasting. 2.0 spec allows you
to create clips within your RSS feed. They're just timestamp so
start time and time and title. And if a podcaster includes it
in their RSS feed, then every podcast app can just parse out
that information and do what they want with those clips. Like
in pod versus case, we look for the sound by tag. If we find it,
we generate a clip in our system. So podcasters if they
want to make clips available as far reaching as possible, they
can put this out On by tagging their RSS feed, and it goes to
every app, you know, like the ideas they can create in a
central location instead of, okay, you have to go to pod
verse and create a clip here, or found create a clip there. Like
if they do that in the RSS. That is a ticket to being able to
generate it everywhere.
The soundbite tag is doesn't have an external file. It's,
it's in the feed itself.
That's correct. I mean, that could potentially change if
the reason why I ask is because all of this stuff, this is my
problem. So if I wanted to generate a sound byte tag, I
kind of have to do that work before I publish. Otherwise, you
get into republishing, feeds and you know, all kinds of caching
and bullcrap that comes along with that. So I would need a to
have the capability, the capability to actually select
the clip before I publish, which, you know, time codes and
everything. There's really no, I have no UI for it. I'm basically
telling Stephen B what the problem is. But honestly, I'm
the lazy ass that says, oh, man, can it be either? Or Could I
could I have Dred Scott do more for me is my question. Really?
Yes, yes. Well, that's up to him. But
I give people SATs baby, I don't mess around, I'd like to take
our money.
Some other people have kicked around this idea on the Macedon
that some some way of crowdsourcing clip generation.
And if if there was an external file, then that might have
separate permissions from your RSS feed. So you could just put
a URL in your RSS feed that links to your your soundbite
list. And maybe you could have your own moderators, that could
then add clips to that list. And that we read it like normal, it
would have to be its own standalone service. Right? Well,
I'd love to complicate. I'd
love to experiment with the soundbite tag regardless. So
once I have that capability, I'll do it. I'll figure
something out. Yeah, because no one no one's producing them.
There's no tools for it. As far as I know.
There is. So Buzzsprout has adopted sound bites from the
beginning, there's just one catch, which is that they don't
allow setting a title with the clips. Yes. And so they think of
it more as a preview of an episode. So like, you include
one preview, I think their UI also generates an audiogram. So
the the people using the platform, they create a sound
bite. And then they get an audiogram and think, Oh, I've
got a clip, what they don't realize is, well, there's
another level that we can go here, which is you put the title
in the feed also. And now that clip is generated everywhere.
Right. I don't know if they have any plans to support something
like that. But I do think that it's just kind of under the
radar that this potential with Eclipse is right there. We have
the spec already. Maybe we need to add the external file. But
there's definitely room there. But what
I like is this is all about getting more people to listen to
the podcast and not have more ad inventory available. Because
people are clicking Oh, let me check this out. Plays ad man
don't like it. Next one plays ad don't like it. Because that's
just not the way people find podcasts as far as I'm
concerned.
Yeah, exactly. It's hard to get on people's radar. And also, you
know, man, I'm subscribed to like 200 podcasts. I can't keep
up with it all. Yeah, it's just a firehose. Yeah. And I hope
that there'll be a day where there's just such a, there's so
many clips being generated in a open standard way that I could
get, like, highlights from the shows, I do want to listen to,
but I can't keep up with, you know, that would be really cool.
Otherwise, I just fall in those same patterns that like same
five podcasts I normally listen to, but there's a lot more than
I'm interested in. I just can't keep up with it all.
Do you have any visibility in like any kind of telemetry or
metrics or anything that tells you which features of the app
get are used and not used? and in what quantities?
Not really, I'm bad at prioritizing that sort of thing.
The only join a club?
I mean, I find it interesting. It just it just hasn't yet
happened yet. We do have some tracking in terms of we count,
page view counts if people opt into tracking and that we use as
part of our sorting algorithm of popularity. It's a extremely
flawed system does not necessarily reflect reality, but
it gives us some indication for some podcasts at least of what
what is getting shared the most. But in terms of the feature use
I pretty much just based on what people email us about and
contact us.
Does it help? How is the how's the the Translate language
translation stuff going? I know you're pushing that hard for a
while is that didn't you crowdsource that,
yet translations is going good, I have not given enough time to
the community that's helping with that. There's this service
called Web late. I think web blade.org. And somebody reached
out to us a while ago, just saying that they, you know, hey,
you should set up with this website. And it makes it really
easy for people to you give them like your master list of text.
So like, we have one JSON file that has all of our texts, and
that's our English, that's a root file. And then people can
just jump in and translate that into any language, and it
automatically creates PRs to are Oh, wow, oh, that's cool. It's
really cool. I did not know it existed. And I need to give it
more attention, because I'm not talking to these people
directly, very much. And they're doing this great work. But it's,
it's a really powerful tool, especially if you have an open
source project, I recommend everybody get set up with it.
If so, how does that this year, just you have a master list of
text strings, and you just pull from that list when you compile?
Right? Well, I mean, we have cores at runtime. We have I 18.
N. We have an internationalization setup, it's
just a little helper function that checks what the device is
language is currently in. And if we have that language code
available, like we have French, German, Norwegian, we have like
six languages. Currently, yeah, it just, it just flips the
definitions for depending on the language that
you're in, how many strings how many strings are there? I mean,
like, what how big of a translation project? Is it to?
Like, let's just say it was a comic strip blogger wanted to go
and translate it to polish? I mean, would that take him two
days? Or would it take him an hour and a half?
Well, the beautiful thing is, you could just do partial
incremental, you don't have to go through and do the whole
thing, you just go line by line, you know, and translate those
lines into whatever language you want. And, you know, you don't
have to be the person that does the whole thing. So I think we
have like 1000 strings, it's quite a lot. And actually, part
of why we have so many is because we added screen reader
accessibility about six months ago. And that's actually a
feature I'd like to highlight more. Because, you know, we
invested a lot of time to make it screenreader accessible. I
got an email last year from somebody saying that they heard
about pod verse through podcasts in 2.0. And they were really
excited to try it. And then they opened the app, and it just did
nothing. And it turned out we were not accessible at all. It
just was a dead app.
I know you well enough to know that stuff like that just gets
in you your curl and you. Yeah, yeah, that drives you crazy.
Yeah, yeah, I just feels like I'm not doing, you know the
basics of what should be done. But so I hope that the
experience is good now for screen reader accessibility. And
I'd love to get more feedback. If you or anybody you know, uses
a screen reader. I'd love to get feedback. We've got it on the
website, and the mobile app for the five
blind guys podcast with three blind guys podcast. I'll ping
him. I've been on their show. They're okay. Yeah, they're the
real deal.
That'd be great.
So they're podcasters and podcast users. Perfect, shall we
thank a few people for our value for value proposition which I've
been explaining to debit card Danny who will be joining the
team debit card. Danny is a overqualified CPA who was who
was helping us with our tax filings and our books and he's
no agenda guy and he's really excited about what we're doing
and he's getting up to speed and so I was explaining value for
value because he kept saying well okay so your sales no stop
no sales but but that's that's in in in IRS speak it comes into
it. Just say it's easy to say sales okay. But anyway, value
for value was is something that I've I've actually been writing
quite a bit yesterday, two days ago. in Teaneck, Festo. Yeah,
Tina came home like that. What do you do to my emails? Now I'm
gonna show prep and I've been writing, writing, writing.
Right, I'm the right I'm The Linguist here be writing your
podcasts. So I've gotten pretty far and it's kind of fun to to
build the story and then also make it you know, Quick so you
can get in understand something or if you really want to delve
deeper into it and learn more of the history because it really is
more than just, you know, it's not just content monetization,
it's a programming format it's a lifestyle to a degree. And and
what we're doing here I would say is kind of the lifestyle
because this project is completely supported by the
people who want to support it, and the value they get out of it
they put into it. That's the beauty of it so you can
determine exactly how much you find this you think the podcast
is worth but really the whole project because it funds
everything. And you can do that by going to podcast index.org
Scroll down at the bottom there's a couple of ways you can
send your Fiat fun coupons or if you prefer you can send on chain
Bitcoin, but we really like people boosting sending booster
grams with a modern podcast app and I just checked that new
podcast apps.com is one way nude podcast apps.com also works
apparently I don't know who did that, but I appreciate it. So if
you keep hearing nude podcast apps.com It'll work to you'll
find your favorite podcast apps there. So I do a couple of these
live podcast boosts before we get yours. The ones received
before the during the show. Meet us 3375 Haven't heard a live pew
in a few minutes. Here you go. Thanks. That was 19 minutes ago
we could do with another one. A lot of triple threes from Chad
Pharaoh. Appreciate that boost Barry. Check this out. 111 111
SATs.
Holy crap.
I think that gets a big bottle. Shot Carla 20 is blades on the
Impala
M booster grand reads as follows by the dip boost the drip a
brief observation using new like it happens using new podcaster
2.0 tags feels like finding new gear for your hero in a role
playing game. You obtain gem of app the episode value split plus
33 Booster lightning magic.
loot the room.
loot the room. I might have to change the title of the show to
leave the room behind the scheme's will be lit post no
agenda on 612 22 with the podsafe Dave Jones as our
guests. Oh, so you're going to feel what it is what it's like
to really have it work.
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I'll get the I'll get a front row
seat for how this stuff is supposed to run and
I am totally changing the title to loot the room. That's
hilarious. 5000 SATs from crimson dear Thank you very
much. We have 5000 SATs from the NA millennial Adam unblock me on
Twitter. I wonder why I blocked you on Twitter. I will I will
check that
they deserved it. No doubt.
Well, I think five SATs is not really doesn't really unlock the
Twitter achievement but okay.
That's that's a minimum of 20,000.
See, Brooklyn. 112 came in on the chat room and he says oh, I
just snuck in. I'm late for the board meeting and I said Hey,
where's your hall pass and he sent 2000 SATs with my hall pass
Thank you very much. 500 from span proof at feat feast Nope.
Secret ingredient is oh I'm sorry. That's for no agenda.
That mix on my thing here. Hard Hat with 22 2222 22,222 sets of
massive row of ducks. Thank you very much. See Mike 2222 Running
with Scissors and putting our ifex individual first aid kits
to good use today. Merch idea. Take notes, a podcasting 2.0
First aid kit. It has a it has a better Alright. Alright. Podcast
index shot pay attention. It has a backup USB mic dongles
adapters and an ask me about my podcast button to put on your
shirt. Yes, beautiful. Sounds about right. Chad Pharaoh got us
going about an hour ago with We'll do it live and 10,000 SATs
on the booster gram. lavish 6666 Pew pew we got shipped. Stephen
beat. Oh Steven Be with a short row of ducks. Hey, Mitch,
Congrats on getting lit. Working the pod pink is awesome. Come on
Martin, Oscar, Guillermo and Franco. We're waiting for you
guys to get lit. And there's our Ben, our buddy sir Spencer
33,333 SATs, boosting the dip and making lit seem easy. Love
you guys. Thanks for pushing that live item goodness. When in
doubt, ignore the false cache signals and keep on truckin PS
for live item feed management. I highly recommend VS code for
edits and FileZilla to get it up on the server go straight to the
source. And that is our live boosts with the last one coming
in. Oh, sneaking in trying trying to get the there he is
ladies and gentlemen, Dred Scott boosting it live looking forward
to fun fact Friday's 100th episode next week. Make 77,777
Sad shot caller 20 blades on I am Paula yeah there's no money
in podcasting
in billions of sets
billions and billions of SATs
we also got some Pay Pal donations we get $22.22 from Sir
Pete pieces boost
we go Hold on a second that's a combo that I yeah you weren't
you were not prepared with how could I be prepared for that?
Oh, he was a left hook 2222 Also from super nerd media says
notwithstanding the dulcet tones of Gregory Forsyth, Jr. One
needs one needs more than AI cooking alone. Therefore, I
cordially invite you to listen to the Barnhardt podcast, a mash
up of current events, Catholic News and conspiracy turned up to
11 Yo Yo. Barnhart is spelled var n h a r dT for those of you
searching boost Thank you super nerd media. We got some boosts
and booster grams that was all the PayPals knows oh well. And
you will get the monthlies will do later protects all the single
donation
okay by the way the right now is the time to boost I mean booster
Satoshis when this stuff starts going up again it's going to be
happy times.
Oh yeah, was it boost the drip drip
by the dip boost the drip
brand Oh settlers gave us 10,006 Great episode guys. I love I
really love what you're doing at the podcast index and the things
Oscar has been doing with fountain. I can't wait to see
what the future brings and that was boosted through fountain
Thank you Brenda 19 122 sets from Kira and our buddy mere
mortals podcast. It says I think Theodore Dusty eskie can give
Mr. Solzhenitsyn a run for his money in the near in the near
the unspoiled names department, the Russians, the Russians
strike again through the Gulag Archipelago is an amazing book
by the way. Horrifying and emotionally draining but still
fantastic.
That was tiring that was tiring. Yeah, carbonation. Man.
Shout out to Myhrvold mere mortals who is been a huge like
promoter of podcasts and 2.0 and also the sleek podcast which is
what's brand Knossos guys,
those guys, okay, do tons of videos. screengrabs is
fantastic. I love retweeting among Twitter.
Mitch, I thought you were about to say shout out to a feed or
Dostoyevsky. Musa, by the way, one, Karen's partner in crime is
he's up there in I think, Minneapolis. So that's sort of
close to you. Mitch, close in quotes. Cool. Satoshi stream
sent us 5552 SATs through fountain and he says, Why you
say a lot when fountain works so nicely. Smiley face is true. But
CLS fun. Everybody wants this command line. Yes. And Roy
scheinfeld. The Wizard of Tel Aviv, he says, he says
54321 54,321 says through breeze and he says, quote, I also don't
want crypto I want Bitcoin. ADAM You rock. That must be an atom
quote. I guess. I guess.
I guess Thank you. Thank you, Roy. Yeah, thanks, buddy. the
only the only industry player that supports me big industry
player.
Yep. Roy is a treasure man. He really
is. I can't wait to visit him yet.
Do you have that scheduled or he's gonna just talk in general
is Israel is on our radar. We definitely want to go there. I
mean, you and Tina. Yeah, we we really we still love to do Japan
but Japan and one anybody. Stay away. Stay away. You
can lay bare you ready? Sit down, you guys.
I'm sitting down. I'm ready. What's up? Okay, all right.
100,000 SATs Oh, podcast.
Shot call off 20 blades on the hem ball.
Boost. A says the intergalactic boombox podcast isn't just
standing there. It's boosting. And I'm a firm believer in value
for value, especially with the immense enjoyment I get from
Dave's paper. crinkling ASMR You're welcome. Yes, thank you,
Carl. Yeah, me and Carl the exchanged some emails this week.
He's Such a good guy. Todd from Northern Virginia. All right
says he sent us 11,100 And Levinson sat through breeze and
he says cheers. Can I get a divorce IQ boost?
Oh yes of course boost boost boost
gasp Casper eland through fountain 3690 SATs and he says
thanks for the work. Thank you guys. Oh, here we go. How you
doing Chris here. Chris Fisher says 3333 sets to found and he
says we need a podcast or push for podcasting 2.0 apps. I
initially had a lot of modern audience try out the new app,
but I suspect many of them have switched back to their old app
UI boost, in part because we're the only podcast in the Linux
world preaching the good 2.0 word. We need more advocacy of
the full 2.0 feature set. And why all that matters for the
competitive future of podcasting from the podcasters themselves
where they lead the audience will follow. Well, that's you've
been preaching that forever, madam. Whoosh.
Yes, that's the only way it works. And when you do, then it
works. I mean, look at this. Look at this podcast. It's
working. Now the real trial is carrying the keeper. Because you
know, people like let me just send you pay, pal? Nope. Let me
just say your cash Nope. We won't move not accepted. But we
really want to support you got to go through the steps. It's
been painful. These are just plain old people who don't
really even use a podcast app typically. And they hear us
talking about it. In the end. They're trying so hard. It's
beautiful to watch. But, man, it's hard. It's really it's hard
to get people so I do we just keep pushing and people get
people do it. They get through eventually they do. And they're
really proud when they do and I hope that they then also check
out other you know, it was really beautiful. Last night
there was was it on Fox, I actually fall asleep almost
every single time during Tucker Carlson. I wasn't want to watch
because he takes our material. I want to see what he liked. And
it's true that he's produces fine. And so and I fall asleep.
Patina says Oh, did you see Did you hear anything about the
woman was talking about Bitcoin to know. So there was a I forget
her name Natalie something. And she has a podcast that she was
talking because normally Brunel is that yes, Natalie Brunel.
Exactly. And so the answer to talk about Bitcoin being
separate from crypto, and Tina said, yeah, you would have
really liked that. And sort of what was named Tina didn't know
so I looked it up as a podcast. So I use the few things I have
and out and Natalie coin stories, pop it up on curio
cache, or boom value value for value enabled, right there. And
I say, oh, that's and of course I send a boost to grandma. I
don't know if what she's hooked into she gets those messages at
all. That's really the when the podcasters. That's the missing
part. So it's not just tell people how to do it what happens
and then Tina and I have seen this on Korean Zookeeper. We're
reading booster grams and people like I want to be read on the
booster gram, we got to send a booster gram. So that's the
piece until the podcaster either is looking at it in well now of
course we have fountain we have sovereign feeds with you can
read that we have heli pad, obviously we have Satoshi
streams, until the podcaster can see that and implemented into
the programming into the podcast itself. You don't get that level
of adoption. That's what drives it. That's what makes it work.
And that's just my experience. Don't be known for long time.
Mentioned the amount mentioned the short message. That's it
and take it from you because you're literally writing the
book. I'm literally
writing the book. I've been living the life for more than 14
years. No other income sporadic but really no other income than
no agenda from value for value.
Would you say that that's where it always falls down? Is it when
it falls down? It always falls down right there where the where
the podcaster does not read the feedback back into the show.
It's
then it doesn't work. Yeah, it's not just falling down. It just
it never lifts off. It's just a
critical piece that gets if it's not there. It just doesn't
function.
I mean, and if you don't do it, then it just dries up. It stops.
Yeah, and it really is key that you have that segment in there.
Well, exemplified by Muppet 1856 You sent us 177,600
Did you just fall under your
iron thermometer? Come on, man, I'm
too tight for this market. That was awesome.
That was through cast ematic. And what's funny to me about
these donations that go that big, is you look on like, I know
for a fact that Casta Matic won't let you won't let you load
up more than 50,000 SATs and a go. So he had to load up
multiple rounds in order to get high enough. Wow. And that one
boost, and then you hope that the podcast you're sending to as
a channel This at least big enough to answer
that too. Yeah. So who? Who sent this again? I'm sorry, I
completely didn't hear who sent it.
Yeah, this is my this is my that was 12 jingles ago. Yes. muppet.
1856 He's on the on. Yeah.
Cool, man. Thank you.
He says Sir, Sir Geoffrey Zellen supporting you with a freedom
baller. Boost.
Freedom baller boost. Very, very cool, man. Thank you, Jeffrey.
Thank you.
Bucha thank you so much. Lyceum sent us 50,000 SATs through
fountain. He says thanks for shout out. I will mention your
show in the upcoming episode 126 of ego net cast. Do I don't know
that show? Neither
do I. Okay, thank you.
Do you have a list of Satoshi special numbers eg 1776 Liberty
boost commemorating the founding fathers to two to two ducks.
ducks in a row boost for 20 High five for the hint boost. As
Martin Linda Skog and yeah, that's that's on there's a repo
for that.
Yeah. Is the striper boost in there. He shouldn't be missing
there's a repo for that. Yeah,
so I don't know where it is called. I wonder if it's in the
boost bait repo
booster gram. Repo GitHub.
I don't know where to look for it our recent boost Yeah, at Sur
Doug Sn is 4400 SATs and he says V four v keep it up. Thank you
sir. Good.
Thank you very much, sir. Here's here it is. I have it here.
Do you find it? Yeah, I'm
going to put this in the in the show notes. 200 you want to hear
these? Wait, wait, let me see if the service so 7777 is not in
there. That's a striper boost. Because that's religious members
it's religious numbers right the perfect numbers perfect number
Yeah. Oh my goodness. There's there's a whole bunch here. But
the Jenny booths like the Jenny boost is my favorite 8675309
Macintosh and it's 500 SATs and he says sweet episode this week
grit. Great interview with Oscar. Thanks for all you to do
go podcasting.
Podcasting. Thank you
see floydian slips love that name. Gave us 3456 sets and he
says I would like to welcome you to listen to my podcast, cooking
with AI Wait,
no.
Comics your blogger here. Different app or something?
No, this he's doing it backwards cooking with AI instead of a
cookie. Wait. Oh, I
see. Okay, this is a joke. I like it.
It's called podcasting for value one idiots attempt to start a
value for value podcast. Thank you. We just solved the
discovery problem with the boost segment. Two Yes, absolutely.
This is a huge win.
Of course we we've had three so far that you can listen to Sir
Shanna the Allegheny Valley aka Sean McCune through cast ematic
since 1000 says sisters censorship resistant boosts
boost boost boost. Boost boost. Let's see is that coming
straight blogger came in. Twice. So I'll flip that one to the
end. Martin from pot friend Hey, Martin
fast.
Mr. Martin 4444 SAS and he says I love seeing all the
advancements people are doing the 2.0 space. Let's give all
the people in the trenches a big applause
right thanks, Martin. How's it going, man, we want to know how
you doing? How's How's the family? How's the house? Yeah.
How's the how's the gaming he wasn't doing gaming stuff?
Yeah, he's written an old school a big gamer. He shows up on the
in the dev meetings quite often. Close get to catch her within
there is a we got a cape since 1033 SATs and he says fountain
boost.
Thank you very much. Boost.
Let's see. Karen is back again with mer motors podcast nice and
as 1223 sets And he says Adam with regards to your V four v
manifesto and people wanting to know more the first season of
the value for value podcast covered most of the philosophy
behind what you've created. I've also just now started a second
season where I'll highlight clips from other value for value
podcasts This is a great idea
because you already had this exists I think so I think he
just launched it's called the value for value podcast. He had
he had a first season that he just had a few episodes I think
and he gave up on it and I think he's coming back with a
different format where he's playing clips from other value
via with other visa vie shows
is it could titled value for podcasting value for value is
that what is titled
I think it's just called Value space for fo our space value
value for our Why have I not been interviewed on this
podcast?
I don't know. Just
got back in action baby. He says okay, subscribed.
And I showcase how different people are implementing the
model send a boost to that show or the mere mortals if you want
a feature. I just think this is great. That great coolness
format Yeah, it's cross is cross podcast promotion with that.
What always gets me though, I must be subscribed to this
because I had this problem with curio caster. It's like, like,
where's the subscribe button? Oh, here it is. Boom. Okay,
boom. That big blue button. Yeah. Okay. Subscribe. Cool.
Thanks.
Here comes through blogger. There is a limiter there is 1033
sets he's up to because of inflation. Batty, Dave and AC.
Are you ready for the Eurovision? 2022 final tomorrow.
Oh man, am I ever
Russia is banned. So as much less fun. Well, thank you for
your service to podcasting in your audience as invited to
listen to your pod to our podcast about artificial
intelligence. Oh, really? Read read is if you heard of this
book at the time. Gregory Well, it's read is read by Gregory
William Forsythe Foreman from Kent. Oh, that's the guy who has
some pubs? Yeah, and the guy on nogen social.com. at GW FF Yeah.
GDSN just enter AI dot cooking in your web browser or in
podcasting. 1.0 or in podcasting. 2.0 app. Yo,
yo, yo. Thank you very much. CSB.
Appreciate the monthly donors. Okay, dynamite. Have you heard
of this app? Pod verse.
I have heard of pod verse. It's it's pretty good.
It is pretty good.
All right.
Oh, right.
Nice. Thank you, Mitch,
in coming in. I mean, coming in tight. close on the heels.
There's another guy named Mitch down. He was $10 a month. And
who's this guy? This is so
nice. That's my personal donation.
And thank you, ma'am. Yeah, so let's really appreciate Mitch,
thank
you. I'm not trying to double dip here with the two shoutouts.
No, condense it into a $60 donation?
No, no, no, don't do that. Thank
you very much.
Alice gates $25 to the gas consultant. Thank you, sir.
highlighted today because of the great work with a live item and
pod paying on pot for and
future live stream of the board meeting at least from this part
with the no agenda tube? I hope.
Yes. These types. These these. Monica when we call Alex, the
podcast consultant. We're not kidding. We mean it literally is
the podcast continues. Podcasting 2.0 consultant, David
Norman. It's good to see David back. He's popping in and out
now. Yeah, I still haven't
seen his new studio back end. I think drivers using it and if
they're trouble if they're debugging and stuff, but I'm
excited about it.
$25 Thank you, Dave hybrid catcher.com Lauren ballgames.
$24.20 Thank you, Lauren. Thanks, Lauren. always
appreciated. Paul Saltzman
22 Yep.
No ducks. Thank you, Paul. Derek J Vickery. Great name $21 Thank
you. Darren Carrick. Damon Castle Jack $15 Jeremy
Kavanaugh. $10 Christopher hora, Barack $10 Sir Soren molar $5
Terry killer $5 Jeffrey, Retford, $5 and CRISPR cow and
$5. That's our group.
Thank you all so much, particularly these monthlies is
highly appreciated, really is. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
You can also consider using the command line boost, put it on,
put it on a cron job that works for us to pay pal may be easier
for you. Thank you all for supporting the project for
supporting the show and making us feel like it all makes sense
and it does And so with that, I'm going to immediately touch
the third rail. Oh, how you doing with fixing that capture
Dave? It is done. It is a works. Oh man, you just gotta give me
just gotta give me the bottom line. I'm what that was, like
that was broken for days. That's not a Dave Jones type thing when
it's broken for days what happened?
Okay, Mitch, you're going to, I don't know, if you're going to
commiserate with me, or if you're just going to think I'm
an idiot, but maybe a little both the. So I just know nothing
about Webpack in and like in React and I literally don't know
what I'm doing at all. I know node, I'm comfortable with Node
Webpack is always been a complete mystery to me, it's
like, you run a command. And then a bunch of magic happens
and this stuff just works. And so then what Steven crater had
done. And, and I'm so thankful for, for his work on that he had
gotten in and just cleaned up a lot of stuff on the site and put
in, he had built the AD AD feed page. So where people could sell
service, add their feed to the index, and he had a CAPTCHA on
it, you know, sort of a protection. So the CAPTCHA needs
a site key, which is like a big Gu ID and it's unique for each
site that you put the CAPTCHA on,
so that you can train the AI with all your stupid CAPTCHA
class.
Yeah, and so the, the site key, you don't really want to hard
code that into the, you know, into the page, you really want
that to be a separate value, because if somebody, if you're
going to run it, somebody else is going to download the code
and run it, they want a different psyche, you don't want
to happen, because the end and also then where every time you
do a code update, or do a git pull it overwrites with yours
your stuff anyway, you want that value to be to live somewhere
else. And it will be great if it lived in the dot E and V file
with all the with all the rest of the environment variables.
That's where I like it.
Right in the end,
to get right in the end, is
right up in there. So we put the, put it in there. And then
I'm expecting it to just to be able to just reference it with
with the process dot E and V dot, the variable name or the
constant name. And it just No, it just doesn't, it doesn't
work. Well, then you and Steven B. Both told me on the on the
mastodon that we should be it should be using like Dotty and v
dot v and v and NPM package. And that's supposed to like expose
these variables into your process dot E and V when they're
normally not there. This is all like, this is all like a
different language to me. I mean, it's like you're just
speaking in Russian because I don't understand even what the
difference is between what's going on with node and Webpack.
And everything. This is
some of the trickiest parts of React anything that involves web
pack, because that's like compiling, and pulling in
variables and stuff like that. So you do have to be careful not
to expose the private variables. But that's the beautiful thing
about podcasts index dot social is that there's people there
that are happy to help and totally guide through this
process.
Summer says versus what is deemed Jennifer has to say about
all web pack talk.
She doesn't have she doesn't she only has math.
It's so when you talk math. Thanks. Dry. Talk math to me.
Oh, man. That was that was heavy. We banned that one. We
might have banned. Sorry. I think we
did. Yeah, that's, yeah, we're getting the platform. So So I
finally figured out if it finally sort of conceptually
made sense to me, and I realized that Webpack is not running with
node. It's, it's compiling to it's, it's compiling static
HTML, and Java is compiling into static HTML and JavaScript. So
when you run Webpack, you're building the you're building a
static site, which node then serves?
Yes, that sounds right. Yeah. Welcome.
Welcome before Welcome to What everybody knew 12 years ago. And
so once I realized that then I'm like, Ah, da, no wonder you
can't Put, you can't reference process study and V variables
because there there is no process dot E and V like it's
it's not there, because it's a static website. And it can't
reference it for the static code. So anyway, so then I went
back and finally figured out, okay, there's this other package
called Dotty and v dash Webpack. And then blah, blah, blah, and,
and now we're all good. And that only that process was a was a a
svelte four days of work, so that's great.
That's what it felt like to us, too. I loved all the emails
coming into to it was an info word podcast. index.org Hey,
man. It's just broken man fixer shit. I love those I love.
I didn't know anybody even used it. And like evidently, like
100,000 People use this page. Well,
that's the beauty of it. I mean, a lot of people are using that.
There's a lot. There's a lot going on. I was quite pleased to
see all that.
Yeah. And I was like, you know, I refused to just go in there
and hard code it just to fix it. I'm like, No, I'm doing this the
right very good.
Hardcore, hardcore, Dave Jones. Love that. Okay. All right.
And personally, I want to personally say apologies to
Mitch, for dropping you inadvertently off of new podcast
apps.com Oh, noes, which is is now fixed. But you the app was
not shown because the filters were set wrong. And that's,
that's fixed now. Okay. Sorry. Oh,
no problem. And now accessible now accessible through new
podcast. apps.com. If you prefer, Mitch, thank you so
much, man, not just for being here on on a Friday. But for
everything you do the leap of faith you took and podcasting
2.0 is incredibly commendable and highly appreciated. I really
love what you're doing.
Oh, no problem. I love that you guys came around and started
this, this is the most exciting thing I've ever worked on. And
your the app is going far beyond anything I imagined because of
all these new features that are being brought into podcasting.
2.0. So thank you guys and everybody in the community.
Yeah. Also, I use sovereign feeds. I have a Lightning
Network Address now. Oh, good. About two minutes. Yes. You're
gonna send that to me? Yes, I
put it in the IRC chat echo that scrolled off a long time ago.
All right. Just put on the email or something. That'd be awkward
if you could even do it on social anywhere, because you can
you can post that publicly. Okay.
I want to save in, you know, give gift, pod versus tribe
because pod pod verse. One knock that we hear from time to time
about podcasting. 2.0 apps is because of because we're
building this is all sausage being made. It's all running
with scissors. You know, it's things are buggy. I mean, this
is all new, new code and things. Things don't have the spit and
polish that you know, and podcast apps that have been
around for 10 plus years do and but you know, pod verse is
stable. It's a very it's a stable app that rarely messes up
and it's got every feature you can think and
I use it on the on the graphene OS and I have my my own node
hooked up to it. Not into my own wallet apps or not. No, but I
have a wallet hooked up to it. It works perfectly. Yeah. Loving
it. Thanks, guys. Yes, thank you, everybody in the chat room.
Thank you. Of course, Steven B for curieux Castro and sovereign
feeds and your assistance, everybody. Thank you so much,
Dave. Thank you my friend. Thank you, my brother. Well, thank you
so much. That's it everybody. That is your board meeting. We
will return next week. And we might be on the summer schedule
soon. So make sure you join us for the board meeting of
podcasting 2.0.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.com for more information.
We have the boots