podcasting 2.0 for May 6 2020, to Episode 84 All aboard to
onboard that's exactly what we'll be talking about today.
Onboarding podcasting 2.0 Hello everybody welcome to the
official board meeting of podcasting 2.0 every single
week, the pod sage and myself. We break it all down, tried to
give you a report on what's happening with podcasting 2.0
with the podcast standards, the new namespace and of course
everything happening at podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry
here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. My
partner in crime the man so wise they name him sage ladies and
gentlemen, my friend on the other end Mr. Dave Jones.
Alexander's Sultan Knutson. Yes, that's the guy with the hardest
to spill name. In the history of, of people.
Yes. Yes. Why do I know this name? What do I know this guy
from?
Yeah, he's the the Soviet dissident.
Yeah, okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I've
been reading his speech that he delivered at Harvard, like the
Harvard commencement speech. And it's quite good. Just happened
to be sitting on my desk. And so I remember to remember that I've
tried to type his name 17 times this week and never gotten it
right a single time.
And was there anything relevant to podcasting? 2.0 was Alexander
and his his writings? Absolutely not. Oh, good. Oh, good. At
least we know, we're starting off on a good foot. Hey, man,
onboarding is it this week? Okay, crazy, crazy onboarding.
For me personally, at least. The first, though, there's the first
one is a show from the Netherlands called the ensign
show. It loosely translated to the Jenson show. And this is a
it's a podcast. He also has a video version. But he puts it
was podcast first. Then he still kind of audio first. And he's
I've known him for 25 years from the Netherlands. And he was very
had a couple of very successful television shows. He he ran
radio stations did morning shows very kind of by himself in his
own little stratosphere. And also new people don't know a lot
about him. You know, it's kind of a typical for DJ,
that he was a DJ, he wasn't like management or whatever. No, no,
he was a DJ. But
he also did run radio, the radio stations, and now that's all all
DJs eventually do that and then hate it. Like, Hey, man, I can
run this thing better than the MD or the PD. And then you run
it like, and everyone hates you. And like, Screw it. I don't want
to do this. But he also did a number of talk shows, and I've
been on his talk show many times, always funny. But I mean,
the guy is hilarious. He did a whole that he did a very
controversial series, which NL produces all this stuff himself,
his shows everything, he always produces himself. In 2015, he
came to the States and went all across America talking about
Trump and trying to understand where it was coming from. So he
came to see me in Austin as well. Anyway, when he after
that, he started yet another talk show. And it was a more
conservative tent, conservative guests. You know, they don't
really have Republicans and Democrats in the Netherlands,
you have multiple parties, but for sure, it's a socialist
country. So it's very, it's left leaning and the media is, is
just this, there's no room for anything else. And so, and it
was very, it was very much discussed, you know, the ratings
weren't super huge. They kind of put it in a weird time slot on a
weird station, you know, between you 68 And you 70 There you are,
there's there's your signal. And so he eventually said
like UHF Yeah.
As an analogy, but his time slot was no good. And so he said,
Screw this screw the mainstream media and he started his own
podcast and I talked to him for quite a lot. This was during
Friday around the pandemic starting and I explained value
for value and so he started with value for value and he never
looked back. And but and a lot of it was he does focus a lot on
video and you know, so he, he saw what was happening YouTube
was starting to shadow ban him so he pulled everything off you
to put up his own stuff on his own server was still doing the
podcast as a companion. And then Spotify kicked him off Spotify
and unbeknownst to me, he was using anchor as his host to
retro so they deleted his feed deleted all the files done and I
noticed this because I know he does like three Shows a week and
three or four and especially delete
so he got deleted, deleted actually deeply. Yeah, clearly A
clearly a Russian disinformation Yes,
obviously, yes. Oh, carrying water for Putin. Oh, there was
when he was doing that podcast It was when he just started was
very controversial. There was even a news article that the
army had been investigating for some reason that military
division of the government had been investigating his podcast,
God Almighty. So he's one of us, Dave, he's, he's a pirate, you
know, he gets it. He's a great program, producer. And so he got
completely deleted. And I noticed because I was like, Hey,
where's the show? I don't see the show. And then I go to his
website. And I see there's been two episodes since I haven't
gotten an update. And I figure pretty quickly Oh, all right. So
I see what's happening. And then someone people started pinging
me on actually interesting on podcast, index dot social, which
seems to be more active than Twitter for me. And so I call
him up and say, bro, what's going on explains the story. So
what we need to immediately get you go and see what the problem
is, I can't go with a hosting company, because they cut off
the hosting, you know, it's like, and what am I going to do,
and I need, you know, we have a server. And he has, he has that
he has all set up for his video files and everything. So he has
that cost under control. And he's has a partnership with a
company he trust. And there are a lot of cool people and
certainly in the Netherlands that you can trust with your
bandwidth and your server. See no agenda also running from
basically avoid zero running it from the northern part of
Holland. And I say, well, then we'll we're going to set you up
right now we're going to do you 2.0 all the way and I say you're
going to use sovereign feeds.
Yeah, for you onboard somebody to write to
sovereign feeds you bet. And so he does have one, one guy who
does all of the kind of the mechanics of the production, so
I work with him. And it was really interesting to see
someone go from a completely managed solution, which an
anchor is pretty good for, you know, the interface the UX is
understandable to go to that to sovereign feed. And, you know, I
struggle a little bit with okay, what is all this stuff, this is
new to me. He didn't he didn't fill out the goods. So that
would that was an issue upon ingesting. He did. And pod Ping
was it was very, he sent me something wasn't working was
actually a bug, which we tracked down pretty quick thanks to
Steven. And he sent me a screen recording of what he was doing
with POD ping. And it was really interesting, you know, the
disconnect. This is so obvious, you know, he's so he would hit
save, hit pod ping, then hit Create RSS. And then upload it.
So you're completely the wrong sequence of backwards? Yeah, so
all of the it's just fascinating to watch. Now, of course, I
explained it to him walk them through it. And but the
conversely the oh, wow factor, when he said, Oh, shit, it's
already in the index. That's it. Yeah. Grab one of these apps. He
said, Oh, my God, this is really cool. I don't have to, like,
talk to all these fucking apps and get them to add my my shows
and Nope.
Yeah, you don't have to wait. You don't have to wait and cross
your fingers
or register, you know, register, like, you know, like you do with
Apple. And it says, So, are we on Apple? So no, absolutely not.
But you can resubmit to Apple or people can add it manually.
Okay. And this is great. This is this is this is more what I want
is this is this is like pirating. This is cool. Does,
and he's bringing in a quite a large audience several million.
Oh, wow. He's big. He's very, very big. And, and, you know,
once this is kind of stable, so they've had to recreate it put
in four episodes in their feed once a stable, and you know,
they have their update process, because, you know, they actually
want to talk to Steven about putting in a web hook or
something to upload to their server. And so I'll connect all
that when the time is due. This is this is what I've been hoping
would happen. Yeah, that's a neat idea, you know, or FTP,
even for all our SFTP, whatever, whatever you use.
So they sound like they kind of know, maybe not know what
they're doing as far as far as RSS goes, but they have the
technical know how to get it done.
Yes, exactly. And the drive the drive, the motivation is there.
Yeah. So it but it was really an issue, for me a very enjoyable
process to go through and to see someone who really was in dire
straits and was saying, Hey, I'm not quite sure what to do here.
And you know, I got the video stuff under control, but I don't
know how to get into these podcast apps. And so next is, as
I said, once we stabilize then it's going to be value for
value. And now here's what I liked a lot because that those
two things is is what they knew about me. The index You know,
it's where you go where you can't be canceled. And then the
censorship resistant payment mechanism that is built into it.
Right? What was interesting, he says, Hey, how do I do this
chapter thing? You see what I'm saying? You onboard someone with
something that's really obvious to them, even though they have
no idea how it works. And then they are exposed to all these
other features.
It looks like that, that's, that's what you would call a
call in the business cross selling.
My point is, look how many people we've on boarded with
value for value who, you know, if you use any of our apps,
almost any of them have value for value. They also have
chapters, many have transcripts, you have a lot of these these
namespace features are available in them. And my point is, as as
production people, they just want to get up and running.
Okay, so what you know over that value thing that's we're going
to work on next. Okay, what is this chapters? How do I do that?
Okay, stop the show. Stop the show. Yes. Stop show that the
our feed is broken.
Our feed is broken. Yes. Do
you know about this?
No. What did I updated it what is broken about it?
You I think you're gonna have to go back to sovereign feeds. Yes.
And unlike save it again or whatever, it publish it again.
Or however that works. Because it's, I'm looking at is broken.
It says error on line 45 at column eight start tagging valid
element name. And then Oh, I see it to even be said he introduced
a bug and he just did a code revert.
Oh, okay. Well, good. So but I have to Okay, hold on a second.
Revert. He did a code. Okay. There's something I need to
teach people.
You don't let me I'm gonna
don't do it right before the show. Don't do it before the
show during the show. This is all not so I have to reload the
page. Right. So this is not this is not good. Don't do that.
Okay, hold on a second. Hello, everybody. You just now
Saturday. Welcome back to the show.
Stephen bases, man, my butt crack is sweaty.
We just spent I don't know 20 minutes on, on trying to we were
running with scissors and E up so once I got poked out.
Oh, yeah. I fell down in the winter straight through the fee.
And I love that I was just pontificating about the
onboarding process. This is so fantastic. This kicks ass. Let's
bring in our guests into the boardroom who's been waiting
very patiently for the for the past. What are we now well, for
quite a while. fits perfectly with this onboarding a theme for
today that please welcome the founder, creator of head honcho.
All round. Nice guy for fountain.fm. Ladies and
gentlemen, Mr. Oscar Mary. Who is muted? Who has muted him.
There you go. Hello, Oscar.
Hey, Dave, how's it going?
Oh, good. Just Just to add to the malaise now now you have a
crappy connection. Yeah. Oh, it just cleared up. cleared up.
Come closer to the mic, my friend. Come on in. Can you hear
me? Yeah, she's got it. You might want to reconnect Oscar. I
hate to say it, but you help me. Yeah, you've got some kind of
Robocop thing going on. There we go. Hey, Dave, this is great.
Welcome. Welcome to the future. Hey, guys. There you go. Hey,
Oscar. How you doing? Yeah, much better. Yeah,
I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys doing?
Yeah, we're good. Sorry about this malaise that we put you
through?
Oh, no, that's all good. You know what's funny, I was just
thinking, while all of that was happening about the first week
that we actually launched fountain. And I remember because
something very similar happened, which at the time just was so
awful for me, which was we submitted the app to Apple. And
I think you very kindly talked about founding on no agenda for
the first time. Yeah. And just before you did that, we
submitted a new version to Apple, which had a bug in it. I
remember, it didn't allow anyone to send a boost. And it was just
so gutting the day that you were talking about us for the first
time. We'd broken the entire app, so yeah, it's very painful.
Get through
Yes. Well, don't worry. There will be many more times I can I
can promote the app for sure. Oscar man, it's you know, the
Before we start talking about anything I want to say it was
really nice hooking up with you at the, at the Bitcoin
Conference which you came in for.
Yeah, it was great to meet you to shame. Dave, you couldn't be
there. But it's always so good to meet people in person, and
especially being over here in the UK, it doesn't happen too
often. So yeah, hopefully we can do it again. So
did you do? What what did you learn? Did you connect with any
people was any business to be done? I mean, how was that
conference for you? Yeah, it
was great. I mean, the main thing was just to meet people,
for the first time, I feel like over the past year, every single
person that we've interacted with has been over a call. So it
was just good to meet people in person, meet podcasters a lot of
the Bitcoin podcasters, we managed to have good
conversations with, and also just meet our users, you know,
meet people that were using the app every day. And it's always,
you know, we get a lot of bug reports. And that's a big part
of talking to users. But it's nice when you're just talking to
someone randomly at a conference. And they say, oh,
yeah, I use fountain use every day, like good jobs. Is that
nice? Yeah, that feels really good. It feels really good.
Yeah. So yeah, it was great conference and learn a lot,
especially around the custodial versus non custodial Bitcoin
problem, which, you know, I think we're all managing to fly
under the radar a little bit right now, but we're all gonna
have to deal with eventually looks like, it looks like, by it
looks like there's a lot of stuff coming down the pipeline,
that's gonna really help and provide the tools that we need.
So I'm really optimistic.
Definitely. And it's nice to see that. So we have LNC, formerly
known as C lightning, they're coming up with a solution. ln
Jesse Atlanta, I'm sorry. The breeze will be is working with
them. Voltage has, has released a lot of details about you know,
their cloud based noncustodial service. I mean, the promise
that I've that I've gotten is, Oh, it'll be just like Gmail
without the snooping, but the Gmail ease have, boom, you fired
up, there's your wallet, here's your keys, lose them, you're
screwed. And that's it. It's, you know, and then of course,
you'll, you'll pay for that in fees from the lightning service
provider, which makes total sense. So I think that's coming
a lot sooner than than later.
Yeah, exactly. Really looking forward to that because
ultimately, people do want that noncustodial experience. But
right now, the onboarding for that kind of thing is a bit too
difficult for most people.
What what surprised so I want to play a clip. You may have seen
it. It's from the one of the most recent Joe Rogan episodes
and he has Khalil Rountree was an MMA fighter and he's on the
show and he went to the Bitcoin 2022 conference. And his
experience was to me personally so beautiful, what what he
learned about Bitcoin and about podcasting 2.0 That it, I think
it really showed that there's, there's a huge audience and this
is why I guess I was saying earlier, that when someone comes
in, and they come in for, you know, an app that that is that
retrieves data from the index, they come in maybe four or
possibly four value for value streaming payments, and they see
all these other things that are possible. So it to me it's a
great onboarding avenue for everything. And if someone comes
in for chapters and sees value for value, that's awesome too.
And I said the word awesome. Listen to this little bit from
the extra about two and a half minutes from the Joe Rogan show.
I went to the Bitcoin Conference in Miami this year, and just got
to see and hear some really really cool things and the
people who are like pioneering this and and really believe in
in, in Bitcoin, specifically not just like the whole world of
cryptocurrency, but Bitcoin itself. I haven't been excited
about something like this in a really long time. And I'm not a
finance guy. I'm not a guy who grew up knowing about, you know,
financial systems and networks and stock markets or anything
and now I'm finally at a point where I'm starting to be able
to, like see a future for myself and also a way to like, people
like me don't really have like generational wealth right? And I
don't understand I don't see how, you know, I can really
create that through fighting alone. So lately I've just been
trying to understand more of like, the advancement of
technology and kind of where we're headed from like a from
like a currency and like money standpoint, there's like a small
fraction where I'm like, Okay, I see how this works, but then
trying to uncover and like, dive more into the whole system of
how this can be implemented into just like daily society. I'm
seeing more and more A possibility, and it's making me
more and more secure on Hey, man, I can actually finally have
something that I own. That's mine. It's like, whatever I earn
is going to be mine and you can't touch it. No one can touch
it every from. And there's a guy Adam Curry who Thank you, buddy,
man. Yeah, you know, like the podcast index like his now
they've created this thing where you if you want to have your own
platform, and not worry about being taken down or censored or
whatever, and you can also get paid in Satoshis, which are
fractions of a Bitcoin from the supporters so you can stream
your set, you don't have to buy bitcoin, you can create a
platform where he Hey, I'm speaking, if I wanted to start
wondering, I'm like, you know, I don't have the money to actually
buy bitcoin. But I do have a lot of stuff that I want to talk
about, subscribe to my podcast. And then my fans and my
followers are streaming into me Satoshis just like they would on
Instagram like likes, right? You get I'm saying so likes and
replays. And all that stuff is also a currency that people
don't really look at it that way. But like, yeah, a lot of
these, a lot of these, like companies that want to do
business with me, it's like, oh, how many followers do you have?
What's your Twitter engagement? What's your Instagram
engagement? All this video only got 70,000 plays, that's a form
of currency. Because that's like looked at as, you know, my value
and my worth on whether or not you're gonna work with me or
not.
I thought this was a phenomenal analogy at the end there with
Satoshis and likes, and follows and stuff like that. I was blown
away by how perceptive that is.
Yeah, that that was a big thing for me when he talked about the
likes and all that all that stuff against the ecosystem as
currency because I've never really thought about it like
that before. And no, I mean, it is, it's a currency that doesn't
have like, it has a social value, but it doesn't have well,
you can have a monetary value.
What he was saying is that for him in the advertising world, in
the sponsorship world, that's currency, okay, you have this
many followers, this many likes on these videos. So you know,
you're worth this much to us to promote our product, the the
inverse, or the reverse of that, or the other side of that is
podcasting. 2.0, where those likes are actually money. So you
don't have to you don't have to add the sponsorship part in.
Let's see, I think that like, if you go back to something that
Cridland said a long time ago, and at the time, at the time,
and I'm not sure how he meant it, necessarily, but I think I
understand. I think I understand the concept a little bit better
now. Or I'm able to sort of adapt it to this concept. After
hearing that, that he he was calling. He kept saying that you
it's easier to talk to people if you talk about an internet token
rather than a real Bitcoin or a Satoshi you're
right, right, right. Yes, I do remember that. Yeah. And I
can see that this sort of fits that framework, it's, I mean,
still, ultimately, eventually, you'll have to know what's going
on underneath, you know, but, but there's there is the sense
that you have a, like, a, there's a, there's a
representation of some sort of value there. And, and it's
always been there. And people understand that there's value in
whatever this number represents on on in a digital way on the
internet. And now Now we've just attached actual, you go
underneath it, detach the social, you know, achiness and
swath, attach real real real money, value, your real money,
and now you've kind of changed the game.
It's, that was just astonishing to me. And you know, I think the
app coming closest to understanding this, even though
the launch of the feature was somewhat controversial is indeed
fountain. So Oscar, your thoughts?
Do you mean in terms of the podcast, the onboarding or the
club? Yeah, I'm I'm actually very, very interested in that
part is? Well, so one is just the value of such Do you feel
that people are seeing disconnecting? When they're when
they're boosting booster grabbing, commenting? Are they
disconnecting from the value and seeing it more as point tokens,
likes, etc? Does the podcaster feel the same way? Does that
make any sense?
Yeah, no, that makes sense. I actually think that the fact
that it's money and that there's value attached to it is really
important. And I think listeners know that I think podcasters
know that. And that's what makes the experience so much more
powerful. If you compare receiving a comment on something
like YouTube or a tweet, you know, having that those exact
same words, but tied to real value and money, even if it's
not a large amount. I think it's a very different thing. And I
think that's why listeners enjoy sending boosts and sending that
value. And that's why I podcasters like receiving them,
even if it's not that much at the moment. So I think that the
money, part of it is really important. One thing I do think,
though, is whether in the future, it's always labeled as
Bitcoin or whether we just give users the ability to toggle into
whatever currency they choose. Obviously, we'll still use
Bitcoin as the payment system but I think some users are still
potentially put off by the fact that it's Bitcoin obviously
we're not no I'm
off give me like a translator. I think curio curio Castro has
that. Although I prefer like a wallet where you can see both,
you know, it's like, I like seeing Satoshis big number and
then underneath underneath it little I like to see $1 value.
Yeah, exactly. I think that's the way to go.
I think that makes total sense. A lot of people can't do the
conversion don't know the conversion aren't interested in
the conversion, don't do conversions. And And if
anything, I was sending a 5000 stat boost to I think it was new
media show. And, and in curio caster it says this is $1.81 I
thought curry or Stingy bitch, man.
Shit, yeah, that's both ways. Sometimes you will send a
massive boost, and you won't realize how much you're actually
paying in in dollars or your local currency. But then, other
times, you'll send 1000s of SATs and then you'll forget that
actually, okay, that's not that much. So it will be interesting
to have the option of both and compare which one needs to Yeah,
more income for the podcaster.
How was how was I'm sorry, go ahead.
No, I was just gonna say, Yeah, I've done I've done that in both
directions as well. And I've did that with intergalactic boombox
to call a bear the other day, he's like, he read, he read it
out on the show. I forget what I sent him like a, I don't know,
the 2000s that has some what he wants
12. Of course, we know it was 2112. And then he
so he reads out my message on the show. And he says that's
about 80 cents. And I was like, Oh,
don't you feel like I feel that already. So I
immediately boosted him, you know, 12,000 says, okay, all
right, we're gonna make up for this. But
there's also been shows where I've lowered my streaming SATs
to 10 SATs a minute, I'm like, that'll show you. You saw. How's
the onboarding going? Oscar, because fountain is unique in
that you are onboarding podcasters. You help them I have
not run through the process myself. Maybe you can explain
how it goes and how it works and how it is actually working out?
Yeah, happy to. So essentially, you can claim your podcast
within fountain, we use the same technique as you guys do on
podcast, that wallet where we just send you we send an email
to the email in the RSS feed. Just
now. Are you sending that? Or are you sending that or is the
index sending that
we're sending that, okay. And then we partner with you guys to
once you claim your show, if you don't have a value block
already, we will just update the value block in podcast index and
basically just set you up with a lightning wallet and enable you
to receive sets straight away. I think there's there's a few
pieces to this one, obviously, is the technical part and just
hiding everything from the podcaster. So that it just looks
like it's just a one click process, basically. And then,
you know, all of the data aggregation that we do on the
back end in terms of analytics for income, so seeing, you know,
obviously reading the messages, because the value is as much in
the message as it is in the actual money. And podcasters see
that straight away when we talk about
do you had as a part as a fountain on onboarded podcast?
Or do I have a screen that shows me all the statistics? I'd love
to see a screenshot of it.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you have essentially, you're used to
work, we used to work a different way. So we used to
have two Wallet. So you'd have your listener wallet and your
podcast, the wallet, but we've actually just recently unified
them. So you have to associate your podcast with a fountain
user account. And then what you will see is a list of all of the
incoming messages on that value. And then if it's a fountain user
that sent that boosts you'll be able to click through to their
profile and see okay, you know, who are they following what
clips that they've created, that kind of thing. You'll also be
able to see which episodes have brought in the most. And also
who's been and supporting you the most the time
and you can continue. Can you send money back to them to their
wallet? Yeah.
Well, so in this latest update, yeah, cool. Every fountain user
now has a lightning address, which means that you can pay any
fountain user just with their lightning address. I actually
tried that it works really well did not. Did you have to set up
a separate service for that? Are you using a third party for the
translation?
Yes. So we're using LM pay still and massive shout out to Tim. I
mean, he's just been so invaluable throughout this whole
process. But we're using LNP. But we do have to set up a
separate service on top of that to manage the lightning address
and request
now that works with DNS TXT records, I
believe. Yeah, exactly. So you can actually, you can do it just
with your, you know, with your server without going into DNS.
But yeah, it's actually not too complicated. I think in the
future, every app will have a lightning address. The problem
then becomes, if I have a lightning address for every app,
how do I manage them all? And you know, maybe you want to log
in to one app?
Well, ultimately, I think the goal is every every human
resource is born, and they're assigned to social security
number and here's your lightning node.
Hopefully not.
Okay.
So, that's, that's interesting. One thing that stood out to me
with the things y'all are doing over there is that you, like you
admit, you contacted me and said, you know, we want to
proliferate, we want to create a podcast or wallet, and then send
that information back to the index. And very appreciative of
that, because you could have easily built this service in
house in a silo, and it would have worked, you know, within
fountain, but you took the extra step to, you know, send that
information back out to the world to the index. And so that
now, now, if somebody has a podcast or wallet on, on
fountain, then all the rest of the 2.0 apps can see it as well.
So, you know, it's, it's Wait, say that again, Dave's
explain that again, to me.
Well, I mean, you know, if they're building if, if Oscar
was building an in house, he's building an in house system for,
for wallet creation and that kind of thing. It could have
been where it only worked internally. He'll still
lightning, but it would only work internally, because he's
just keeping pointers to wallets against the podcast URLs. Okay,
instead, you know, he when he when a wallet gets created, it
now gets that information, that wallet address in splits and
everything gets back to the Index.
Oh, yes. Yeah, that's, of course, that's what you want.
Yes.
Yeah. But I mean, a lot of people don't. Yeah, but I would
have gone over there from
Oscars neck.
Yeah. I appreciate the nature thinking that, you know that
that way? Is it as far as a community goes?
Yeah, no. 100%. And that's ultimately, that's what
podcasters want, as well, you know, the every, every podcast,
as I'm sure you guys know, has been approached 1000 times by
companies trying to set up, you know, some kind of service that
only works within the app. And, you know, podcast is a board of
that, and the beauty of podcasting 2.0. And what we're
doing is it works across every app. So no matter which app or
hosting provider offers the service, there'll be able to say
to the podcast that this will work for all of your users no
matter which app that they personally prefer. So I think
that's the beauty of it. And, you know, that's why we're able
to onboard new podcasters to value for value is because of
that. So yeah, it's not I don't think it would work any other
way.
Now, let's talk about onboarding of users listeners, specifically
to the 2.0 part. What is the conversion of people just using
the app? How are you tackling that in the current? How the
fuck do I do it environment? What is your experience there?
Yeah, so it's actually a very high proportion of our users
that are actively using value for value and ascending SATs is
about 45%. So almost 50% of our users SET sending SATs every
week and yes, we obviously we have a big you know, Bitcoin
audience in terms of the shows that are that people listened to
on fountain but that is starting to branch out. And that's why we
wanted to build the podcast the wallet just so that we can make
it easy for podcasters to try it out. I would say. I mean right
now the guide that we have on our website is to use blue
wallet, we found that it's the most intuitive. It allows you to
buy bitcoin with Apple Pay directly in the app. And then
you can just send it back into fountain. So that's our kind of
go to. Obviously, the Cash App announcement was massive as
well. So I think it's it's still a struggle, especially for
people that are put off by Bitcoin.
So you could send directly from Cash App to, to an LM pay
lightning wallet.
Yeah, exactly. So straight from Cash App. We don't have cash app
lightning in the UK. So of
course, there's there's that problem. Yeah,
yeah. Why is that by the way? What what is regulation? Because
regulation,
money, money, transmitter regulations, all that stuff?
Sure.
So I've been hearing for a long time that the UK regulations
around Bitcoin and crypto more broadly, are a lot more or a lot
more difficult than they are in the US. Do you do specifics on
that? I mean, what what is it specifically that makes it
difficult?
Yeah, I think what I've heard is that the time that you have to
put into the application process, and there's a lot of
just time and uncertainty that goes into it,
the stalkers didn't even convert to the euro. They stayed in the
pound, they're very protective. They know the danger of Bitcoin
coming to their little island.
Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think we're going to be a
regulated money transmitter. That doesn't make sense. It
doesn't make sense for us as a podcast that to KYC our users
just so they can support their favorite shows. Like, that
doesn't make sense. And I think I actually, I actually spoke to
someone who worked in the UK regulator, and I explained the
what we were doing, and I explained, the, the, the lack of
logic when it comes to the KYC and the user to use a podcast
app, and they totally get it. I think the regulations just
haven't caught up with these new application.
Ya know, and that's the issue that I'm seeing that may be a
problem. So we had the Facebook pull back announcement. Do want
to talk about this just briefly. We're Facebook after a lot of
hullabaloo and a lot of people integrated and a lot of NDAs
were signed. They went, Yeah, no, yeah, a month into it. This
is not for us. And they start doing very interesting things.
My wife, Tina just had someone here. It's a business woman. And
she relies heavily on Facebook. And she also has a podcast that
goes with your business. And they've just been uploading,
they didn't even we weren't even really aware of how the whole
podcast thing worked. But she showed me the message and I'm
stupid, I should have asked her send me screenshots. I could
read it verbatim. But Facebook will not even allow you to post
a link to your podcast now. Not even just a link to it, it got
kicked off. And I think that may be something that James Cridland
saw only that message was community standards. I'm not
quite sure how he got that one. It is my belief that if you've
been following this Oscar in the United States, we our current
administration has created a disinformation governance board
within Department of Homeland Security. So like the home
office. And this there was a site we discussed this on the
last show, there was a big push from former President Obama, who
spoke at the Stanford cyber Institute, there was again, a
Brookings Institution article about how podcasting cannot be
moderated. It is my belief that Facebook saw the writing on the
wall went, look, it's going to be really hard to monetize
anyway. We don't want to deal with all the shit that's coming
down on podcasts. So we're going to bow out
you see that that was not my thinking. I was thinking that
they they have already squashed all of the concerns. I mean,
well, let me let me phrase this differently. Facebook is built,
they have built everything they have moated themselves with
their content moderation mode, by employing you know 1000s of
people around the world to do the content moderation as in an
ahi fashion is so they can just always claim Oh, and we're you
know, we're just we're doing we got plenty of content moderation
we're doing is so that they didn't have to care about
podcasting and what what it might mean to them.
Well, your analysis has two flaws in it. I think. Only one
getting better. One you actually think that Facebook is is doing
anything that will Would that would jeopardize their current
relationship with government regulations? very precarious.
They want a lot of regulation so that they can be the big boss.
They're motivated by money and by control. And there's no way
you can hire enough. Ah, I like to term human intelligence to
moderate podcasts you have to listen to every single podcast
is there is no AI and no comics or Blogger, you don't have to
refute this. There is no AI, it can barely do images. Can we?
You just sent me a link about this this morning that it's hard
for AI to even understand the context of a mean image to
there's no way they could do it. And they just say, Look, this is
specific. I'm saying this. This is coming to podcasting,
specifically, because the Facebook the Facebook knows how
to operate. Oh, okay. You don't want us you don't want the
President Trump done. He's gone. Now why did they do that?
In that regard? Okay, on that on that line of thinking, they may
know something that we don't they? Well, yes. They they like
they know their food. Inflation is coming. Yes. Yeah. Yeah,
they Well, regulation. I know that this. President Obama and
the Brookings Institution both called out the Steve Bannon war,
war room podcast, as disinformation that wound up
killing people. You see what's going on?
I just want to hear that lady sing.
She seems quite well. Yeah. So
well, this fits with actually play a good time for a clip.
Yes. Let's play a clip. Play. De Lorenzo, real motivations of
large companies, because this fits very well with with your
analysis of what of what large companies really want.
I had this Harvard Law School professor as the moderator. And
he asked one of the CEOs of Procter and Gamble or one of
these big corporations. You know, Mr. Smith, what would you
do? If Mr. Mr. Pickens here called you up and said Your
company is in play? Yeah, that is we're starting a proxy
battle. We're buying up shares. And Mr. Smith said, Well, I
would call a meeting of my board of directors. And we would we
would decide what parts of our enterprise we had to shut down
what parts were profitable, what parts weren't so profitable, we
will evaluate our human resources policy and he went on
and on about all the things he would do to to improve the
efficiency and competitiveness of his company. So that he then
he says, we would do this so we could go to our shareholders and
say, You don't need Mr. Pickens, we will improve the value of
this company, and you'll make money that way. Mr. And Mrs.
stockholder. Now what what question Does that beg? Who? Why
hasn't already done it? Yeah. Why haven't you already been
doing that? Well, because human beings like the easy life rather
than harder. Most human beings. And that's hard work. We're
running up a company. So if you can make money anyway without
working your butt off, why not?
Very good point.
Yeah. T Boone Pickens, you know the big takeover guys like Well,
yeah, well you're gonna you're only going to work when you have
to and so like this may be the Facebook strategy is we're this
is gonna be a lot of work. Yeah, we really don't want to fool
with it and we're already making you know $20 billion a quarter
in profits so let's just let's just not do it.
I think that's correct. It's it's too much hassle they don't
want to deal with with the conversation. Oh, you're hosting
evil podcast. And then there's one other silent weapon that is
being used, which is ESG which is environmental social goals. A
governance I'm sorry. And the environmental is obvious no
stories that don't know nothing positive about fossil fuels.
That's that's for Bolton nothing negative about wind solar.
Please no nuclear talk that's also for boat and although it's
changing a little bit no proof of work. Nope. No proof of work
talk exactly. The social goals Well, here we are. I mean,
podcasts are just evil that mean there's there's there's right
wing conspiracy theorists there's a misogynist, there's
racist there's all kinds of people on those damn podcast. So
Oscar, Have you received any type of requests for takedown or
anybody was pissed off and and came we've gotten one or two I
think very few. But have you received anything like that? No,
not one. There you go. And you go we have a couple of questions
for Oscar from the booster grams, which is no new new for
us. Yes. First of all, sir Spencer was very happy to report
the Kansas City block party with Lori and Abel Corbijn himself
was a huge success. And they had a podcasting 2.0 banner which
they got on to the local TV news. Yeah. Yeah, it was also
all over no agenda social. Here's a question from Spencer,
Oscar, I heard you and Nick met some of my KC buddies at the BTC
Miami shindig also shout out to Sir OMA who won a free boost hat
but donated it to me. I'll be wearing that hat all over the
place as soon as it arrives. Yes, you're you're an app with
merch?
Amazing. Yeah, we we've tried hard with the merch. I think
it's it's important. We've got some new merch coming. And we're
doing more competitions around it. But yeah, thanks for the
shout out. And yeah, hopefully get to meet him again in person
soon.
Question from Carolyn. Can to host of a podcast, for example,
myself and Fletcher, who together we host hogs story? Can
we claim hogs story on fountain? I guess what she's saying is, if
two hosts own the show, how do you claim that equally amongst
two people? One is always going to be controlled the splits your
thoughts?
Yeah, great question. So this is actually possible. But right
now, we'll just have to do it for you manually. So it's not a
one to one relationship, necessarily. So you could have
two fountain accounts that both have the ability to update the
split. And then when you look at those splits, whether it's for
the show, or the episode, you would just see the two accounts
that have, you know, claimed the show and enter in the splits.
But you could also just add any fountain user to the show splits
or episodes. But and I think this is, you know, going back to
the onboarding, I think this is one thing that's going to be
massive for onboarding because podcasters are unique in that
they are just talking to different people every single
week. And if you have a host that is onboard with value for
value that is onboard with podcasting 2.0. And that is
onboard with Bitcoin and lightning, they can just onboard
the guests. Right, right for you. And so that's one of the
reasons we did it. We're encouraging all of the
podcasters that use our podcast, the wallet, to onboard all of
their guests to fountain and to value for value in the hope that
they go out and spread the message, because it's still so
early. I mean, if you look at the numbers, the number of
downloads that big podcasts get, you know, we're so we're so far
off getting there. So there's a lot of work to do in terms of
onboarding, education. Really looking forward to your
manifest, though. Yeah,
yes, I know, it's, I'm finally back, the travel is finally
slowed down, I've started the training of the dog. All these
things that have been had been lingering. But yeah, I already
I've already written some of it. But I'm, I'm actually happy with
some of this delay, because I'm seeing this, the Joe Rogan show
has reach, you know, this kind of stuff gets around. And I'm
just seeing the onboarding is so obvious to me, I really don't
care how we get people into 2.0 as long as they're in it. And
once you have something that you using the namespace for it, you
know, all the rest can come naturally. And eventually, I
presume it will, that all hosting companies will have the
majority of of frequently used tags. Do you see a lot of uptake
of the podcast you've on boarded in other tags, like transcript
or chapters or guests or any of this? And and have you come back
that actually was going to have you thought of combining the the
role? You know, so if you add a guest, you could do that in one
fell swoop with a guest and a wallet? Or is that still a
separate process?
Yeah, it's a great question. And I think one thing that has
limited, the adoption has been the hosting platforms, I think
they need to do a lot more in terms of adopting some of the
features and pushing them and making them a bit easier for
podcasters. The number one thing that we've heard is that it's
just a lot of work.
For example, lazy as podcasters. Yeah, like ham radio guys, so
much. We're too expensive,
for example, like that, creating the chapters, I think we could
do. There's a lot of different inputs that you could provide to
those chapters. Yeah, I think there's really creative ways
that you could kind of help the podcast that at least have an
outline of the chapters. So there's a lot that we'd like to
do there. I think it kind of pushes us further from the app
side onto the host side, which I'm not sure how far in that
direction we want to go. But yeah, I'd really like to see the
hosting platforms do more and just make it easier for
podcasters. Because yeah, right now it is quite difficult,
especially with the chapters.
Yeah. And that's why you see third party services cropping up
that's why you have sovereign feeds. That's why you have the
WordPress the PowerPress Plugin. Yeah, all of these things. Yeah.
I think what's, what's so great at about podcasting 2.0, and
specifically, the index, and I hope we can see more of this in
the future is allowing different third parties to just integrate
with the index and provide that service, kind of, you know,
stepping over the hosting platform that's moving a bit too
slowly.
We're ready. I mean, hyper capture is one, although it's
not necessarily connected to the to the index, per se, but is in
the ecosystem. That's how all my chapters get the chapters for
the show get done?
Yeah, I think you're gonna see, I think you're gonna see some of
this happen. Over the next, I'd say, six to 12 months, I think,
just based on the number of conversations that I have had
conversations with. One, there's four for add conversation with
four different people this week, from different hosting company,
platform apps, that that are all looking at 2.0 and tags, and
names to be a namespace as the just get this prevailing sense
that from things, things like concrete things I know that are
happening, and the people the seriousness with which the
people I talk to are talking, and I really think that you're
gonna see a lot more people come on some of that lag with hosting
companies and apps is going to go away in the next in
everything it
has to is we're accelerating so fast. There's, there's demand is
starting to build.
Yeah, I think I think we just got out. I mean, it's, it's no
mystery, there's the normal thing, we you get out ahead,
when you're building something, you get out ahead. And then it
takes time for people to catch up. It's just a natural curve.
And that's fine. And, and I want people to keep their, their chin
up about adoption and that kind of thing. Because it is
happening. It's just, it really is it's just a little bit a
little bit slow.
Podcasting, brother that podcasting is slow, we're a slow
growing ecosystem. It's just what it is. And I keep reminding
myself, because you go back and you looked at Oh, it's we've
gone up like three, four or 5% with whatever metric you're
looking at. And but it takes time. Just takes time. And this
is a true build it they will come. What do we have now? Six
and a half 1000 value for value podcast? Yeah, that's active
users that's active actively using a namespace feature on
every podcast, that's a big deal.
You know, and they've, so let me ask you this Oscar on on the
guest wallets, thing. So these are lightning addresses. So I
can put in a fountain user lightning address from any to
perform any split anywhere, right, it doesn't have to be
within the fountain app.
So you can but right now, we don't have the ability within
the app to share that. So that's something we're working on. But
yeah, technically, you can input that from any service that is
managing splits, whether it's self hosted or another service,
and I think where we'd love to get to, is the ability to do
that cross app as well. You know, just rather you're
managing your split in the fountain podcaster wallet, on
podcast that wallet.com On your own RSS feed yourself hosting on
sovereign feeds, wherever you're doing that you could add users
from other apps to the split in a way that was just simple. I
think that would be incredible.
Because that makes me think immediately that what you need
we need there's I don't want to use the term discovery because
it's not really what this is a you need a way to find the
person mean like almost like a directory of of users that you
can choose from you because I can see as like okay well
well once you're managing well once you're managing the wallet
infrastructure like they are whether you're managing it and
as custodial or not once you have that directory I've tried
out some of this this this address stuff it works really
well and from breeze you can you can pay someone with the
fountain dot F m address. I think that's the that's the
common that's the commonality. I just don't know if if you can
make that well can you make that a central? I don't know if you
want that centralized though.
Yeah, I don't want to I don't think right because you have you
have the because immediately what I thought of was on podcast
or wallet where A lot of splits are done that I could like go
through all of the current value for value feed blocks. On a,
like on a, on a timer, let's just say every once a day or
cron
job across.
Yes, I could, I could put in a crunch crunch
a cron job out of a Dave Jones
That looks through all the value blocks in their splits, pulls
the addresses and names out and then just does a like, builds a
little simple directory so that you have a drop down box in the
podcast football is split editor. But I don't know if
that's necessary. I mean, like, what do you what do you think
Oscar?
I'm not sure that's necessary. I think what we need is a way to
link lightning addresses because I think that is the format
that's being adopted, not just in podcasting, but I agree all
over lightning, I think we just need a way to link that to key
send, because you can't key send a lightning address. However, if
you could, I mean, a lightning address is just the lookup.
Basically, if you could include the keys and information in the
lookup response, then whatever service you're using, you could
let the users type in a lightning address. And that
would pull back the key send information that you could then
insert into the value block? I think that would be the way to
do it.
Is that case, when you say the lightning address resolves to
keys to the Node Info does can add also carry the extra info, I
don't know much about lightning addresses how they work, but
just a very sort of high level view of it. But down down at the
nitty gritty Can you have it return the other routing
information to like if it had a custom key or custom value or
routing hint? Can all that stuff come back to you? Is it just a
node address?
No, yeah, it's from how I understand it is pretty
flexible, it would just need the standard to be, you know,
updated. So I think it's definitely possible.
There's one there's one other thing ln URL, which is which is
really how the how the addresses they started out with ln URL,
mainly? That now also does key send. So are you familiar with
lb lb? Why? Get out? Get lb.com to if you go to get lb.com?
You'll see it's the Bitcoin lightning app for your browser,
which is I guess it's an extension. And while I'm sure
it's it's custodial, but you'll even see right up there, it has
value for value. They just added that because now you can use
your lb address for key send.
Okay. And how? And is this is just Ellen URL under the under
the Yes.
Okay, so they're they're doing the URL and URL.
But it works with key send, I've been reliably informed by ROI
that is reliable. That's pretty reliable. Yeah. Yes.
Oh, okay. So there's, there's, there's developments here.
There's developments. So I and I agree with you, Oscar, I think
that the the address, I even looked into it, like how can I
do this for curry.com. And is a little more than I was willing
to delve into at the time, but I can totally see how it works.
You know, once you you write either the server, you're the
mail server, or you can do it with DNS, which may be
preferred. You can set that up and it'll just work. And it
works with I think every lightning app have tried
understands this concept. And now with the addition of keys,
and I think we may be able to use this moving forward.
Yeah, I think it makes sense as a as an approach because it's
just, you know, people understand it. It's just like an
email address. But for money. Simple. Yep. Yeah,
it's simple like cash app. All these things have similar
similar addressing schemes. But even even I'll be I think I'll
be could be used for podcasters I'm not advocating for this. I'm
just saying this is the type of development we're seeing that
you can fire up a wallet, your own wallet. Yes, it's it's
likely custodial what I see. But you can fire it up right in your
browser. And you could connect that to a value block.
Yeah, I could see this. You think? Let me did you hear this?
Or read this article? About this Patreon survey? No, this isn't a
title of the article. See where it is from TechCrunch maybe
think this from TechCrunch so you know it's 100% legit. A
major page RIANZ survey shows that most creators don't want
crypto payments. Yeah. Okay.
So I don't want crypto either I only want a Bitcoin.
Yeah. This is this is the way
this is the this is how they fight it.
It is it is how they fight. So because the headline survey
doesn't give you a full picture at all of what the survey
actually
what did the survey actually show? So I
mean this is this is disinformation somebody.
Somebody called Nina jank Janka wits in the get Aratus on about
the pitch to Patreon. This is let me just read from the
article here says its creator consensus out of 250,000
creators active on Patreon over 13,000 people responded to the
survey. That's pretty good, right? Yeah, 13,000 payments, a
decent decent sample size says videos the most popular primary
medium on Patreon representing 38% of respondents. So you can
say like this is me, you know right out the gate video mostly.
So this is YouTube creators and Twitch streamers probably.
They're gonna they're gonna have a little bit a little bit
different take. So but but the podcast, so of all the ones
surveyed, podcasting was 14% of the respondents. Yeah, not there
you go. Not a big, not a big representation of podcasting,
but still whatever reason, and the respondents said that over
40% 40% of their creative income came from Patreon. And that's
big that is big. I mean, that means the of the one surveyed
38% Being video probably be a Twitch streamers and YouTubers.
That group is dependent on Patreon for almost half of their
income. That's that stood out to me but but get getting back into
the to the headline for a second. It says here. So here's
how it breaks down. If you dig into the census act these this
report actually. So in the podcasting category, you have
four different responses. When asked respondent interest in
crypto payments, you have four different possibilities they
could have said it's they think it's crucial. They think it
would be nice to have they don't care. Or please don't write
those, those your four options. In the podcast section, it was
8% said they thought it was crucial. 17% said they thought
it was nice to have 34% Didn't care and 42% said please don't.
So you know the way I read that.
You could say more than half are interested. Yeah.
So like 20 and 25% actually are not just interested they want it
Yeah, they say 8% 17% 25% of podcasters who have a Patreon
account. 25% of them think that crypto payments nebulous is that
is is either crucial or nice to have 34% Don't care. So that's
they don't really they are yet
don't care yet. They don't care. Yes.
The kicker here, though, in this whole thing was how you ask the
question, of course, that's always the game that you play
with survey. And here's, here's how the question actually, if
you dig into it was actually was given? I don't have the exact
wording of the question. But they they talk about web three.
Yeah, that's, that's their quiz. That's the way that they talked
about this. This is some creators, including many who
took the survey, are opposed to Patreon building web three
functionality due to concerns about potential fraudulent
behavior, environmental sustainability, there you go and
accessibility to technology, and applications. The fact
that they even had to do this survey tells me and it's just
nothing against Patreon. They see the writing on the wall that
lots of companies see this. The financial system is not sound.
People are looking for alternatives.
They call it crypto payments. But yeah, but what they actually
said in the survey when people were looked doing the survey was
web three. Yeah, there you go. Those are completely different
things. Yeah. And so even even beyond, you know, given that you
still had 25% of podcasters in this survey, Booth thought that
crypto payments were crucial or nice to have. That's to me that
was very encouraging.
Absolutely. Yep. Now, we're on a good path here, Oscar Mary, I'm
so happy that you are leading the charge. You're you're really
delving deep, and you're delivering a lot of value with
what you're doing here.
How am I appreciate that?
How much runway? Do you have? I mean, you don't have to divulge
your company secrets to me, but I know that you have some
financing. Can you keep going on for years? Are you indefinite?
Do you, you know, do you hope to be making some significant
revenue within a certain time?
Yeah, so we've got, we've got a pretty good runway, we do have
some funding, and I think we'll be we'll be around. I mean, it's
growing, this is working, you know, this is not something that
is precarious. I think it's only growing every month. And I think
the the job that we need to do, obviously, there's the tech that
we need to build, and you know, the design of the app, and we're
slowly getting there on all of that, but it's just the
education job for podcasters. Really, because at the end of
the day, that's gonna, that's who is going to grow this,
that's who's gonna grow the users on fountain and all of the
other podcasting 2.0 apps. So I think we're gonna get there. And
I think the features that we have coming down the road are
going to be really exciting as well. So like one of the things
that we want to do, and this is a bit of a controversial one is,
obviously the clipping in Fountain is a big part of the
app. And it's a big part of what we believe in personally,
because we just believe that there's incredible insight and
wisdom that's locked away in podcast. By so often this
happens to me, every week, I hear about a new podcast, or an
episode. That sounds fascinating, but I just don't
have any time to listen to it. And if I could have somebody
that I follow, who I respect, go and listen to that, and surface
and incredible insight for it. Like for me, that's so valuable.
So the clipping is really important to us. And we want to
evolve it. And we're thinking how can we link the clipping to
value for value? Yes, yes, yes. podcast is it agree with us,
like podcasters want a way to incentivize their listeners to
create clips, because it's free promotion for them? Especially
when you have some kind of social connection there. Because
it's not just anyone random telling you about the episode.
It's someone that you follow and respect. So I mean, I would love
to have the ability for fountain users to boost a clip. And we
just need to figure out how we would do that with the value
block like do we set a default like 50% goes to the user that
created the clip and and the other 50% goes out to the value
block? Or do we give the podcast a way to signal in the value
block that they are happy for, you know, some kind of curation
to happen and what split they would like for curators, I think
that is going to be really powerful. And that's what the
podcasters we've spoken to really want and are excited
about. So I'd love to get your guys's thoughts on that.
Yeah, I've got, you know, we have this notion of a fee in
there, that at the attribute, you can have it you can
designate a split as a fee. And I wonder if you can also if you
can just designate a split for for that type of thing. So like
this, like if somebody boosts this, for some sort of ancillary
reason, like clipping or something else, like some third
party thing, like then, then I want that person to get this
much, then because that way, you're saying I value, here's
how much I value, like third party promotion or something
like that I'm willing to give this third party this percentage
of my boost in order to like reward them. You're kind of
putting it back on this as much as my first thought just my
rough and dirty first thought is you're sort of putting it back
on the on the podcast or to say a How much do you if somebody if
somebody promotes your show, how much do you want to give give up
to them? Because some people may it may be different some people
may actually value that a lot and say you know you can keep
100% of that list
as a as a podcaster. Who does this already? Here's here's
here's how I would probably like to do that. And I understand
where you're coming from Oscar where they'd be great if anybody
can create a clip and then and then get a get a split for it.
And I'm not quite sure. I was just thinking, how would you
make that work? Currently, for some shows, I mean, I have
multiple 5% recipients, no agenda, which we don't take any,
no agenda doesn't take any of the money itself. It goes to
people who are in the splits. And the clip custodian who
delivers, you know, anywhere from 10 to 20 clips per show,
which are perfectly guys an expert, you know, I was giving
him 10% I just recently upped that to 20. Now, and so, for me,
it's more like, instead of letting the audience loose on
it, I prefer to say, Okay, this person's good. You're, you know,
we want to do this very soon. Once Once we can spin up wallets
quicker. We have fresh album art for no agenda, I want to right
away be able to put the out, you know, the the artists should be
able to get a split from that episode. So these are all things
that feels natural to me for the podcast, or to control it versus
a third party. But that's just me.
Well, that that's, that sort of fits with with the concept.
Yeah, cuz you you could just put in a general split those like,
maybe it's not even, you know, maybe it's not even Oh, there's
there's an idea. So what if you have a promotion split? Yeah,
that but somehow it's an alias or something that it? So that
split? It says, Okay, where did this come from? Oh, it came from
here. That's this wallet. I mean, I'm now I'm making up
stuff that I can't develop. But you know, when it's a pre
designated thing, something like that.
That's a good that, yeah, this is an interesting problem,
because
I just I just don't want people making shit clips just to get
paid. You know, that's, that's the problem.
Well, it's go ahead last year,
I think it wouldn't be. So I definitely don't see it as
linked to the payments that are already going out through the
episode. I see as separate to that. So it wouldn't be like, if
you created a clip, you wouldn't get paid automatically. From the
people that are already streaming to the episode or
boosting the episode, it would be separate to that. And so in
order to get paid for creating a clip, someone else would have to
listen to that clip, value that clip and actively choose to
boost that clip. So I think that there wouldn't be a spam
problem. In fact, it would be the opposite, you would
incentivize very high quality clips, because people would be
able to earn from creating them. So I think it would have to be
like,
Okay, this is very interesting. Oscar, let me just play this
back to you. So you're saying is, so what makes it clip? It is
its own entity unto itself, and you reverse the process. And you
and although I still think the podcaster should be in charge of
what that person gets, but then they they are the main
recipient? Possibly. So let's say 50%, I think would be too
much. But you know, could be 20%. And the rest would go to
the podcast or so could you have? Could you, you almost make
a feed of clips. Really, when you think about it. Yeah. Yeah,
you almost want to just create an RSS feed that somehow was
associated with with the main feed just for internal purposes.
So we know what the hell it is. But, you know, even though that
will display as clips everywhere, it has the same
mechanism is the podcast is that what you're saying? Only it's
reversed. Are you saying that the person who clips is in
charge of the splits? Or is it no split?
I think I think it has to be separate from the episodes.
That's the first thing and I agree with you that the podcast
that has to be in control of where the money goes. I think
the difficulty is, you know, if it's on the RSS feed, it gets
back to this problem of we can't do anything without the hosts
limits the ideas that we have and experiments that we can run.
So I think like an easy way to do it would be right now in the
value block. We have value recipients, which all of the
apps know how to pass and they know how to pay. We could just
create a different tag that goes in now like a like a curator
tag, and they get the same thing. Yep. And so that won't
affect the existing streaming payments that won't affect the
existing booths because the app will actually have to make a
conscious decision to recognize the new tag. And so let's say
it's a curator tag, then if if an app sees the curator tag,
they can see the percentage that the podcast that has given that
blessing to. And so if anyone curates anything from that
episode or show, we the apps can allow that user to get paid.
Yeah, I like it. So you, you could have something called
let's just say a new tag within the value block called podcast
colon value share, or something. And then it would be like a type
attribute of, you know, some something if we wanted to get
that granular with it and have different because you want to,
when you're when you're modifying the spec, you want to
future proof it enough to say, Okay, well, would this is the
one thing we came up with, where would this one idea where people
could do this thing. But there's potentially other ways that
somebody could also do something similar. And we might want to
tweak that behavior a little bit. So you want to make it
flexible enough, where if you had a value share tag or
something like that with a type attribute, and then just a
split, like just just say, split equals 20? For, you know, 20%,
it would essentially operate like the theta like the fee
attribute and interesting, yeah. Where you say, okay, whatever
the amount is, here's the, here's the, the straight up
percentage, that the boost that the clip Creator God, and then
all the rest of it goes in feeds into as an input into the value
into standard value blog. Does that sound something like what
you're thinking?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Something like that. And yeah, it's
challenging. I think the naming so important, is challenging to
get it right. But something like that would just, I think there's
so much creativity that can be unlocked from that, and the
ability to see, you know, what we offer right now in the
podcast, that wallet, which is you can see which episodes were
boosted the most. And as we had some podcasters on there over
the past, like, four or five months now, it's actually really
interesting that they can see oh, this episode, is by far the
standout in terms of how much value that I received from my
listeners, what, you know, how did I frame the message on that
episode? Who is the guest? What did we talk about? That's really
interesting, you can do the same thing with clips, if you
don't really drill down on that. So you can see what time a boost
was sent within within the episode.
Not yet. But that's where we'd like to get to is just to give
more more granularity and more interesting, more interesting
inside,
I really, I really like your idea of linking the Eclipse to
the value for value. And I think that is probably one of the main
reasons why Eclipse hasn't really taken off. Of course,
Eclipse are used everywhere. So I'm trying to couch that in you
know what that means. But you add that element to it. Oh, my
goodness, I think that will really propel the whole class.
Now it makes sense to do something besides just voting.
You know, I'd like that.
And also, one other thing that I always think about with
podcasting is the back catalogue. Like that gives an
incentive for listeners that love a show to actually go back
to the back catalogue, and try and find like, really cool clips
that people that are new to that show won't have ever they won't,
they won't have had time to go back and listen to the back
catalogue. But, you know, here's a clip from two years ago on
this show that, you know, everyone that comes to this
show, as a new listener should listen to, because it provides a
lot of framing for what we talk about, you know, the in jokes,
stuff like that. So I think it can help unlock the back
catalogue as well, which is personally just is a really
interesting concept around podcasting is that the back
catalogue, just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and there's
never any time to go back to it.
Yeah, I don't remember we've got this show ad for episode 84. I
have no idea what I said on episode 82.
I do because I have the transcript the searchable.
Yes. Oh, he flex.
I use transcripts so often for going back and finding something
in a podcast.
And this is another thing like if you could link it to the
transcript, and you'd need to be a hosting provider to do this.
But if and then it links into chapters. And if you can bring
all of this together so that the user that or the wants to go
back they'd be able to the transcript chapters, boosts
clips, you know, everything.
Here's the thing about clips. I have a couple of thoughts about
clips. I think there are and I understand what you're saying,
Adam, you're you said that clips have really never taken off even
though a lot of people have done Yes, sure. And in a I think the
sense there is that there are a lot of clips have been tried and
done many, many times in many ways. But there's never been
sort of like this massive take off where clips where this one
group has found a way to just make clips. Just take off like a
rocket. And I think it may be because clips sort of exist in
two at two levels, you have the thing that you're talking about
Oscar where you have sort of like a social discovery
mechanism of a clip where you where somebody shares a clip
with you and I, hey, listen to this show. And then that's for
your sort of, like personal discovery or personal
edification. And you have this other level that clips exist.
And that's sort of that social media viral level, where you're
intending not to just share it with one person, but you're
intending it to become a meme almost, right. And like the,
the, the problem with the social sharing of, of clips, the viral
sharing, is that you don't we see it on things like Tiktok,
and Instagram, where it has, there has to be a currency
involved, there has to be some sort of like, you have to have
this big follower account, it takes a lot to build up to the
point where sharing that, like takes is worth the time and
effort for you to do that. And then there's on the social side
of things. If you're not, if it's not the potential to go
viral, and get you some sort of income in return, then really,
the effort involved of clipping is too much. Because even though
clipping has been made easier, it's still a lot of tedious work
to get the timestamps, right pull those in then clip it out.
The the social aspect that we started with, I mean, the only
reward you get if you make a YouTube clip, is how many people
viewed it or likes etc. Yeah, we really don't have that in
podcast clips. There's no There's no reward mechanism.
There's no dopamine hit. So having that reflected in
Satoshis There you go. That's all you need. That's, that's,
that's fine. That's the dopamine. That's the social
currency. And Oh, guess what, it's real currency.
Yeah, and if and if you add even if you could even make it more
dopamine, if you could take the dopamine and turn it up to 11
and say, the not only getting SATs, but there's leaderboards
and now you've now you've got the viral thing going on top of
the money thing. I think I think it can be doable and I think
this is the honestly I think this what you're talking about
Oscars the only way to make clipping take off. Yeah. In a
big way.
Oscars the Oscars muted himself again, that's illegal. Illegal.
Illegal.
Yeah. Anyway, that's, that's, that's my thoughts. I don't see
any other way that clipping becomes becomes the sensation
that we think it can be without, without that reward mechanism
there. It's just too hard. No.
Well, I'm very excited about all these features. And I see you I
mean, I see your vision Oscar, I really do I see it. And, and,
and obviously, the hope is that all these cool things you put
together, you know, be great if they if they feed back the
information can work in other apps. That's fantastic.
Definitely. That's fantastic. Oh, yeah, for sure. And we can
you know, as long as we can figure all of that out we
definitely want to do that and you know, as a as a podcaster.
You take your clips with you just like you take your episodes
with exactly. So yeah, definitely supportive that
this is a value for value project. Those of you listening
those Hello, chat room. Bye, everybody. People have been
boosting live which has been good to see we've got the boost
bot hooked up. Oh, no, I guess we don't I guess since we
changed the feed. Well, we had the boost bot. But the feed was
lit for a while. So this we are doing this live and then we're
running with scissors. You heard that earlier. As part of the
manifesto that I'm working on, I will be explaining how to ask
for people to support what you're doing. That's all you
have to do is talk about it apparently in a pew pew show. So
how to ask is it's really incredibly important. Our ask
for this show is pretty simple. Everybody can see the results
right there at the index. You can see the work that's being
done and the end liquidity that's being provided and we're
very very pleased you know, the The we're healthy we're moving
forward because people are very consistent so keep it going keep
on boosting keep on sending us Fiat fun coupons we I would like
to thank a couple people to get it started off little Stanley in
our blood there that's your cue, Dave. Oh,
I thought you said I would like to thanks, man. I thought you
had a list I didn't have Oh no.
Well, you know what, why don't I run quickly through the live
booster grams. Okay. 2000 from see Brooklyn. One 112 Thank you
for your courage. We have cotton gin tonic. This ESG stuff sounds
depressingly less awesome with 9999 set 10,000 from boost
brewery shout out to Mitch for getting BTS lit in pod verse
last Monday night yes pod verse now also doing the live item
tag. Shout out to Oscar and fountain for playing gifs in the
chapter art go VHS effects go chapter's go podcasting. Go
everything. Yes, Cotton Gin Tonic and other 9999. Let's see
we have Carolyn, that that was 8888 from her hug story
question. Thanks for Spencer for your 3333 and your 6960 nines, a
couple of them. Another row of eights for podcasting. 2.0 says
Carolyn 8888. I enjoy using fountain question for Oscar will
be the wave. Will there be a way for podcasters to control their
presence on fountain? I'm not quite sure what she means. What
does that mean? Do you know Oscar?
Yeah, I think it probably means this is something that we've
heard a few times, which is we have profiles on fountain. But
right now if you have claimed a podcast, your profile doesn't
look any different. Okay, this user is the host of this show.
Got it? Yeah, that's something definitely look to add soon.
Excellent. Fletcher. 5555 says you can't beat freshly made
sausage and sweaty butt cracks. That's right. Servo with 1000
SATs live item shot HSMAI vitam. Yes. Chad Pharaoh says there was
3333 This feels like a real board meeting. Yes, yes. What do
you mean feels like it isn't real board meeting? And let's
see. Yeah, and then the rest came in before the show.
Alabama we call this won't but you know, within two minutes.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can have it in Alabama or in Texas if
you're editing live code. Yes. And both results in the same.
Thank you all very much. Keep boosting us with a modern
podcast app new podcast. apps.com.
We have no individual Pay Pal donations. We had a good week
last week so expected to fall off but sad puppy, but that's
okay, we have some monthlies. I'll do the monthlies. First. We
have Scott Jalbert $12 Thanks Scott. Chad Pharaoh $20. the
ever present Chad Pharaoh Loretta Vandenberg. Is that a
Dutch name? Yeah, could be okay. Sounds Dutch Yeah. Mark as
Loretta gave $10 Mark Graham $1. David meet us $10 Hope love and
lit to David meet us for his daughter has skateboard
accidents.
Oh no.
Yes. All things with wheels can kill you.
Yes. Is she okay?
I think so. He says she's she's gonna be get bruised
and cut I've had many skateboard accident.
Boris Boris kudelski $1 and Joseph maraca $5 Jeremy new $5
and Cameron Rose $25 good time to say that just remind
everybody that the $125 for T shirts if you want a t shirt is
donation because we we get that sorted out now we get the t
shirt thing back in business. We got some moose from and you can
tell me if I repeat a boost that was live last week. I think I
don't think I've got the timing right. Okay, okay. Hard Hat
gives the road ducks 2222 through curio caster he says try
six.
Okay, I'll try six. I'll try seven.
Roy scheinfeld Our buddy 54,321 SATs. Yay.
See the big baller. II see a big baller for today. Big boost.
Thank you, Roy.
Yes, he is the baller
shot caller 20 blades on him power boost boost. Nice you Roy
pinata
big baller today get an honorary Devorah check. Yeah,
we don't mess around.
And it's just a big it's a big row of, of emoji that my email
client refuses to parse. I don't know what what he actually sent.
I gotta figure that out. Oh, Carolyn, this must be Carolyn
from Hawk story. Row ducks. 2222 through fountain. There you go,
Oscar. Very nice.
Throw out some rubber ducks. Steven B is all bummed out on
the mastodon. No, don't worry. It's just been an embarrassing
day. Sorry for all the extra work now. To do you gave us 20
minutes of free content to appreciate it
cannot buddy. This in the chat, duck ducks and emoji ducks in
emoji action. Okay, there again. I cannot interpret my emojis
here so sorry. Currently, this is a problem. Yeah. Hard Hat
back with more dogs. 2222 is day
holy crap. I gotta be hittin the Duck Hunt map
each just keep that just hit. f5 just refresh. Yeah. 4400 sets
from Sir dog. And he just says boost. Yeah. Boost. And that's
through fountain. What how's it feel? Oscar. It's pretty. It's
pretty awesome to see. Like all these booths coming in from, you
know, from your app and knowing that this stuff originates with
tech that you build in that fun.
It's really fun. Yeah, I mean, it's great to hear the booth on
the show. But I mean, meeting people in person as well. That
was the best out in Bitcoin, Miami. You know, just a couple
of people. I was just standing in line next to and told them
what I did. Oh, yeah, fountain. Yeah, I use that. Good feeling.
And yeah, I mean, ultimately, I just love listening to podcasts
anyway. So I'm doing this for me, basically. But it's just
good that other people enjoy it, too.
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's what I always try to tell people
about developer motivations. Developer motivations are really
simple. Obviously, we got to have food, the food on the
table. Really pizzas, that's it new. And Mountain Dew may be
more important than, than making a living. And this is embodied
in the open source world is the satisfaction of building
something and seeing people enjoy using it that that is a
pretty big reward in and of itself.
And I can tell you from the from the daily statistics that the
number one sat sending app is fountain. Yeah, and that's
always followed by breeze or curio caster or cast. ematic
which I think Dave you've been using Casper Matic Haven't you
Dave? Yeah, yeah, I can tell I can tell when you're using
custom Matic
bounce around the church. Oh,
I bounced around all the time to I'm using everything. Including
kill your FM synth 5000 SATs through fountain says Whoa,
thanks for the mention guys. I'm enjoying drinking from the fire
hose. Association of music podcasting has since been
retired, but it was originally founded in 2006 to represent
both independent artists and podsafe music, as well as the
podcasters promoting and playing them sort of a beacon for both
artists and podcasters to rally around the way podcasting 2.0 is
shaping up, maybe a similar organization could be a valuable
resource. Thanks for everything you're doing. Well, you're
welcome.
Oh, I think this is going to happen. I'm not sure how it's
going to form or what's going to happen but we're going to need
we're going to have a version of podsafe music it'll be value for
value or whatever. And there will be education resources,
necessary apps all kinds of stuff, but there's demand out
there. You can feel it everywhere.
Well, Spencer is going to do it or die trying.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Dirty Jersey whore. Okay 1000 through fountain What do you let
people like that on fountain?
They're really You gotta you gotta moderate that shit
brother. Yeah, that this is horrible.
Yeah, I'm gonna let I'm gonna let Janka Whitner this. He just
bought a box of meats from KFC cattle using my Umbral bone
broth boost. Oh,
yeah. Boost Nice.
That's That's your new venture, right? Yeah, yes.
Yes. I have bought a ranch and I'm, I'm boxing up meat as what
I'm doing these days. I'm so happy KNC cattle, they're from
Austin. They are part of the beef initiative, which is Texas
slims entire push who came out of retirement to teach people
about food again and and how it all originates from the seed and
what real pure beef is and what it what it does and what it
doesn't do and and they have connected everybody through
Bitcoin. So here you can see KNC cattle bought using my Umbral
yeah, that's, that's a bit coin purchase right there and
couldn't be happier.
So I didn't have time to print these out. So I'm reading I'm
doing them through my email. And the the way my email window is
configured at the moment is kind of scrunched up on the on the
thing and you'll have a look up to two emails above where I'm at
right now. The subject line is cut off and it says the art CEO
is very high. If I expand it, this is very high on podcasting,
but there's when I first says Oh, all right. I didn't know
that about him. Sir Shauna the Allegheny Valley says 2500 SAS
through cast ematic speaking of he says, boosting the bots
are Yo Yo yo yo, here's your cue to boost you know, you want to
vache the A ke soon as 400 SAS through fountain. He says he or
she says testing out the boost feature. It works to Graham.
Test successful CASP eland 3690 through fountain and he says
thanks for the show.
No complaint UCaaS
4848 SATs through from comic strip blogger through fountain
and he says returning back here 3333 Plus tiny bonus. Oh yeah.
Regular. What is this about?
Well, he, he he was this is the test that we did. He said, Hey,
fountain I have now a csb@fountain.fm address, but
it's only for fountain. And I went No it's not. And I sent and
I sent him 3333 From breeze to his fountain address. That's how
I know that it works quite well. Widely. And so you didn't use
comics, your blogger Thank you do not have to send it back. But
thanks. We'll take it.
I'll send regular tin oh three, three next week to meaning of
4848 equal phone prefix in Poland.
Okay. All right. Nice.
Thanks, chemistry. Another one from chemistry. comes through
blog races just returning your second 3333 meaning of 48 Poland
country code. I have plenty of cash to send me anything. Oh,
unless you want to
test stuff. No, just send us more. Thank you. Yeah, just keep
doing it. Keep sending refresh.
Lyceum 1776 So that's that's the Liberty boost. Yep, yep. Through
fountain and he says my first boost. Great, awesome. Boost.
Another 7770 76 He says Adam best premises with a value for
value manifesto. Okay, thank you working on it. Oh, there's Dave
Jackson. There. Yeah. Dave Yeah. 7777 through cast Matic and he
says styler boost.
Nice. Also a Christian boost I learned recently 7770 sevens is
all good Christian numbers I've been per line I'm informed the
perfect number
floydian slips send us 2000 SATs through fountain and he says
paying forward the SATs fountain paid me paying forward this at
fountain paid me for using the app. Thanks Dave. Adam and
Oscar. Oh cool. Well, we'll get the band together. So there you
go. Yeah. See at 93 says from Red Bull. This through breeze.
He says at 93 US Navy Chief Petty Officer moved from cert
twin screw still loving the show rusty WFE web for BSD
twin screw nice
do we have what we had a D what do we have? It wasn't the do
shows?
Oh didn't know we have d
defragmented that's it? Yes, yes. Yes. Do we need to
defragment Yeah, well
those people officer yes people boost for the first time you
want to get a D fragmenting. We're here for you.
Se OTT Skylane Yeah. says go podcast 2.0 That was 10,420
SATs.
Ooh, nice. Another nice reference. Okay, this is the
bomb boost
you get some of that second hand over there. Oscar. If it goes
out on the table.
Yeah, little bit.
Nomad, Joe gave 2000 SATs through fountain and he says
boosted again. Yeah, it's like you know, magic boost 55 552
sets from two Satoshi stream. Oh, hey Satoshi stream through
fountain. And he says boost
go. That's interesting boost the onboarding, boosting the
onboarding. Love it.
Yeah, that's a double onboarding. So what? Why that's
interesting that Satoshi stream boosted through the app through
fountain app instead of just directly through the command
line or whatever magic system they have.
Because you you want to you want to boost the whole club. True,
by the way, Oscar, you can you email me a light lightning ID to
add to the splits for the show.
Yeah, I will do I'll send you a little video of what it looks
like in Fountain to add other users as well, just in case
you're interested in that.
Very, very nice. Yeah, definitely want to see that. But
I also just want to add you to our split for today. That'd be
amazing. Thank you, of course.
16 1611 1611 SAS from slewed, and now that we know the
pronunciation through fountain and he says, Where do I go? And
how much do I have to pay to get my official podcasting license?
Forget about podcasts? Yeah, yeah. And what about those cool
podcasting? 2.0 t shirts? Well, we just talked about it. 125
Whatever you do the accounting figure out how many sets you
donate, but adds up to 125 bucks. Let us know and email me
and I'll send you a t shirt.
Yes, and the podcast. So podcast licensed.com. I have I was the
one thing that I wasn't that I wasn't able to resurrect a gig
broke years ago. And I was doing OPML Yeah, I was doing
subdomains so be like, you know, like, Adam at Adam dot podcast
licensed.com and had a templated show my podcast license. But I
think it's valuable. I think we're gonna have to start
licensing people again so just have to figure out how to do it
but we have that and there's nothing you can do right now.
But stay tuned.
You are doing that as the as the as the pod father as the vinner.
Joe Yeah, as
they see now now we know we have to actually have standing.
Now we can issue licenses. I think we can't we have standing
enough standing to be the licensing authority. Yes, the
licensing
body
considered dumb.
Bitcoin dad pod sent 420 sets for 20 through fountain he said
I had not made the connection between the oral tradition and
podcasting that helps me understand why I love podcasting
so much. Heavy listener 10 hours a week. Can we talk about
getting podcasting 2.0 into antenna pod?
Well antenna pod has some bits of it I think almost honored
honors boost yes honors
yet, my antenna pod is Kunis on Mastodon is a sort of like a I
think he's like a community liaison or manager or some sort
of community advocate for antenna pot. And I know that
they definitely have been looking at value for value and
Bitcoin payments and things like that. But I mean, I think
antenna pod and very much is is into podcasting. Two point.
Yeah, I
just don't know. It's not a value for value. I don't think
specifically.
Yeah, not that far. But I think like namespace tags and stuff
for sure. Yeah. Let me actually leave Look at that. That's a
good
I was already going there to go take a look.
Okay. They support the funding tag and they use us for search.
Right.
So far to start.
I think I want to say there's more than that. And then in the
website may not be current. Thank you Bitcoin dad pod. Yes.
Comic Strip blogger.
Oh, wait, there he is late labor. I'm
sorry. Andy layman. Andy layman cast MATIC 257. Sassy says
remind me again, why Adam didn't like loopback in his audio
devices.
Oh, because it's a you'd have no control over busing, you need
busing? For mix minus and things of this ilk and you need control
over the audio coming from your USB device, not just a straight
pass through. It's for gamers. It's not for professional
audios, audio professionals who do podcasting.
bussing would be more akin to what you get in something like
Audio Hijack, is that right? In a virtual sense, but it's like
you can route it's routing, its routing.
Yeah, routing and control really control over because you can
route with a with a loopback device, but you can't you have
no other control over it. It's just there. There it is. You
can't know this. There's never going to be any processing on
it. It's just it's just an input an input with no channel and you
want an input to have an entire strip to manipulate that input.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Gotcha. Oh, yeah, here it is, comes through blogger. 15,033.
So this is more. Hold on a second. Yeah, he's up the ante.
He chose fountain. He says, How do you David Adams has been
bitcoin is dipping. So this time I donate 150%.
That's so nice. Now there's a guy who's thinking about us.
And your listeners are welcome to listen to podcast about AI.
Really? Did you know about this book?
I've heard of it. I heard about it on Korean Zookeeper. I heard
it. I hear it on all different shows. Yes.
Did you also hear that it's read by Gregory William Forsythe
Foreman from Kent.
Yeah, that's a guy who used to own a bar. I think pub Yes.
Just type in your web browser or any podcast app. A i dot
cooking. Yo, yo. How you doing booster? Thank you. So yes, but
that's
right. That's it. Yeah. Gee, thank you so much, everybody for
boosting your little hearts out. I haven't. I haven't done the
math.
Whiz Gregory William Forsyth Forman a big name in the UK.
Oscar.
I've never heard of him.
He's a hologram. He's a hologram that comics are blogger
programmed in his AI dot cooking lab or something like
that. He's in my dreams.
Yes, that is kind of interesting. And advertising in
this manner does work. Oddly. Yes. Another thing another thing
that this booster grams are great for, of course, I'm gonna
I'm gonna cross promote your app if you're paying me to cross
cross promote your podcast.
Hello is probably like, a it's probably like, what? 10 o'clock
at night over there. Right now. Oscar?
Is 920 to nine. Yeah.
Okay, that's trying to be mindful of your time because I
did have one more thing I wanted to talk about if you're getting
if your game because it is the potential for opening up the
API. So and that just just meaning not having not needing
tokens or API keys in order to access like some or all of the
API calls. And the idea here would be maybe, maybe just
search, or I'm thinking like search, and then podcast by by
feed ID podcasts by URL, maybe episodes by feed ID. It may be
just like a sort of a start with a subset of API endpoints that
can be made public and not using an API key. And that way we get
the benefit of better caching. What do you do? I don't know.
What do you what are your thoughts there? Oscar, do you
think that do you think that would be a good way to go?
Because I think well, let me let me flesh it a little bit more.
My thinking is, if you know Apple's API is is is open. I
think some of it is closed. But but most of it the iTunes API,
if you just want to look up basic metadata about a podcast
it is that is open. And so that in and of itself makes it easy,
and gives it sort of initial already called inertia. And I
think that it would be if we want to truly be, you know, an
alternative to that it would make sense to have at least some
basic calls be open as well. What do you think?
Yeah, it's something I've thought a lot about, actually, I
think there's two things that are important to consider. The
first is that this is the way it works. Right now, in terms of,
you know, applying for an API key is incredibly easy. Anybody
could do it. So I don't think that's a barrier or blocker to
people using the API. But then the second thing is, I do think
that giving various third parties or just developers the
ability to add value to the index by building on it, I think
is really cool. And I think that it would be amazing if there
were more options to allow third party developers to extend the
index offer additional services like search is a great example.
Like, you know, if someone wanted to cry A project to
extend the search so that it was more granular and had additional
filters or different, you know, different things of that nature.
I think giving developers the ability to do that would be
incredible. And it would make everything so much better. So
yeah, those are my two thoughts, I guess.
What are the benefits of opening the API? Dave? I'm unclear on
that. Because I agree with Oscar that it's not not hard to set it
up. You mentioned caching.
Yeah. So the idea would be that, you know, we were behind
Cloudflare. And we could benefit from Cloud flares, caching of
the results. That was take currently, you know, currently,
if you have to have an API key, you're changing the request
metadata,
every time every time you access it, I understand.
Yeah, yeah. And so it all looks to the caching proxies, as if
they're, they're calls that can't be that can't be cached,
can't be duplicated. So that that would be really the one of
the main things and then, you know, like, like, what, like
what Oscar said is cool. In here's, there's a simplicity
argument here, too, which is that when when people deliver
apps, that don't, I don't need to say this, when when when a
developer delivers an app to the public, they're going to have to
put it that doesn't use a proxy on their side. Like, if they're
not proxying, the calls, if they're just rolling out an app,
and having the app itself contact the index, then they're
gonna have to embed the API key anyway. So at that point, I
mean, the fact that you have a key is not helping much. And so
that's been sort of a constant piece of friction there is that
there's people were rolling out their keys in the app anyway. So
I'm just thinking is just the simplicity thing. And, and, and,
hopefully, a load, it lessens the load as well.
Did the last time we discussed this? I do remember, there was a
legal aspect that needed to be looked at, but I'm not so
worried about it. But that's probably should just review.
Yeah, let me you're basically a lawyer. So you could do right?
Well, yes, I've been. I've not passed the bar, but I've done
two divorces. That helps. And green cards and a couple of
green cards. Yeah, I'm very proficient.
Yeah, you're like, literally, you're basically Legal Zoom. So
we can just go. I don't know. I mean, it's, I think, maybe if if
it's legally okay. And maybe somebody can let us know if
that's kind of what I'm putting it out there. So
you keep the call to the value block, you would still need an
API key, I presume?
Initially, yeah. You know, I just don't know how it goes.
But really, it's a caching it's an overhead. It's a it's a scale
issue that you're talking about. There's no other real reason
than that.
That and just and the simplicity, the simplicity to
make it even easier for developers. Not that it's that
difficult. But, you know, I mean, there's, if you're doing
it through through the iTunes API, you don't you just do it.
You just call it you don't have to have an A you don't have a
key. Yeah, I understand. I understand. I'm assuming I'm
assuming that if there's a legal issue with it, then you would
like you don't sign it. You don't sign Terms of Service with
it with apples.
No, no, no. But it's you cannot compare Apple to us. One,
because if someone comes along says, Hey, Apple, I'm
considering suing you over this apples like? Yeah. Have you met
the have you met half of the building?
Yeah. But again, I'm bringing it
Yeah, I'm not that concerned about well, that doesn't really
seem like it matters much other than for you for scalability and
and for developers as well. You know what? That's where we have
a mastodon people will weigh in on this.
Yes, I want people to tell me why this is a great idea or a
bad idea, because I just don't know. Right? And that's I'm
gonna I'm not gonna bring it up again.
Good. Well, then we can scrap that off the list. All right.
Bring it up again. Ah, hey, are you are you on your summer
schedule? Now Dave? Do you have a Friday afternoons off or you
have to go back off on free and clear? Oh, nice. Nice. Well, I
do have some people showing up. So I'm gonna To wrap it up from
my end, Oscar, thank you so much for joining us once again. And
thank you for all the work you're doing. And thank you for
being a real leader in, in developing great experiences.
It's quite, it's quite exciting to watch from from arm's length.
Well, thank you for that, Adam. And thanks for everything you
guys have done. I mean, we're just following your lead. So
yeah, appreciate everything you're doing and we'll continue
to push hard to try and just build as much as we can really.
So yeah, thanks for having me on. And yeah, always good to
chat.
Yep, yeah. Congratulations on everything so far too, because
we've it's really fountains really turned into mature
products as the last time we talked. It's it's really got a
lot of Polish now.
Yeah, it was. I look back to the one we launched then. I'm very
embarrassed but we're getting there slowly. And if anyone
listening is listening on fountain any problems just
please email me Oscar at found endo FM. We do have a list that
we're getting to all of them. So yeah, just send me an email.
Thanks everybody who sent us the monthly fee or fun coupons you
can donate by going to podcast index.org Scroll down to the
bottom you can also send us on chain Bitcoin and of course, you
can boost us with a modern podcast app. You get it new
podcast. apps.com Thanks, everybody in the chat room.
Thank you for running with scissors. Thank you, Steven. B.
We love you man. Not if we wouldn't be doing this if it
wasn't for you. So don't sweat the small stuff. Especially
because it's just a bad look that sweaty lineup your butt
crack. It's just not looking good. Dave pod sage. Yeah,
what's up? Have a great weekend. My brother.
You too, man. You have a good one. No, you got you got you got
when do you what night do you do Tina in the keepers that
we just did. We just did one on Tuesday. Correct? Correct. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. This is a top show brother. Said hey, we'll do
alright everybody. Thank you so much for checking out the board
meeting. We'll be back again Friday with another excellent
meeting of the mind here for podcasting. 2.0 Have a great
weekend. Bye bye.
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