podcasting 2.0 For April 1 2020 to Episode 79 We got wheels up
throw in some aviation terminology and make it
interesting. Hello everybody, welcome to the official board
meeting of podcasting. 2.0 everything happening at podcast
index.org the podcast namespace and of course everything that
goes on all the creative goo and juices podcasts index dot
social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country and an Alabama if you want to talk regex he's your man
my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave
Jones,
or glass glass is also something I can talk about the glass.
Did I miss his glass yet another database search organization
function?
No, it's the thing. It's like something. Yes, it is that yes.
Yeah. But it's also the thing that attracts children for miles
around a broken glass. Whenever you drop something on the ground
and are on the floor, and it shatters into a million tiny
little feet slicing fragments Yeah, it just somehow attracts
children they love it they run and want to look at it. And
that's the you know the thing as a as a parent you don't want to
happen is immediately what happens it's like it's like
zombies and brains you know brains out there the zombies
just flocked to it you know it's a
metaphor for something I'm missing is there so
what happened is I left the house today.
Oh my goodness. Oh, what happened?
On my way out I walked through the living room I started the
cat get startled. The cat bales off the off the dining room
table knocks the this candle off with this with the glass base
shatters all over the ground will then my 11 year old job you
know jumps up runs around the table and Amelie wants to see
it.
Yay cool glass.
what always happens every parent knows this you just want to you
want your kids to come in your little kids come in a room
though.
glass on the floor. Yeah. Ah so this is a an extraordinary board
meeting. As by the time this is heard I'll probably be on an
airplane somewhere you will be back into tax season and I
really appreciate you taking the time because I know it's been
must be crazy for you right now. What do
you mean me taking the time you gotta you're you're doing this
at eight o'clock at night and you got to get up at three
o'clock in the morning.
Yeah, but this is my job. You have a you have an actual job
that requires a lot from you.
Well, last night, tornadoes in Alabama always wondering why
not? Yes or why not? Yeah. As normal fare.
Every time every tax season. We also has tornado season. So
that's great. And to two o'clock in the morning this morning. I
was up at the office filling up the generator with diesel fuel.
No way.
Oh, did you have a power outage? Out? Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. Outlaw Like, it wasn't. There was tornadoes here. But a
lot of the damage and stuff happened from the straight line.
Like those gradient winds. They call them come through and it's
just like, you know, you can get like 70 mile an hour wind gusts
Just out of nowhere.
Yeah, but no, no, Damn, it's
fun weather,
no damage further.
I think there was damage all over the state, but nothing more
than close to where I am.
Right. But then you also have a busy workday because of tax
season because you got nothing but accountants and other
accounting tax professionals running around saying I can't
figure out my password.
Yeah, little bit of that. Yeah. Password, a little bit of print.
A little bit of print problems. Oh, yeah.
print spooler.
Server juice. Yeah.
Remember that is able to print spooler? Do we still have that
print? spooler? Oh, yeah.
Principle is great. Because like, I think it was in October
or September of October last year, there was a critical
vulnerability in the print found in the way that Windows delivers
drivers. So in the Windows world, there's a thing called
point in print has been there for literally since maybe NT,
Windows NT 3.5. Point and print. Yes, called point in print. So
the idea was that you would share a printer out from from a
computer so you set up a printer on a computer then share the
printer to the network. And then you could tell the printer the
print the machine that controlled that printer, which
is now effectively the print server. You could tell them you
could specify on that machine, a print driver so that what other
machines on the network what they would do is they would go
open up your print your computer in a member network
neighborhood. And yeah,
network neighborhood. Does that silly This network neighborhood,
well, they've read, they've changed it, but it's effectively
the same thing. It's underneath. They just changed. So, like, you
would go to Network neighborhood, open and double
click on the machine that you wanted, that had the printer on
it, see the printer there and double click it, and it would
set it up on your machine and installed the driver for Yeah.
Yeah, that's called point in print. Well, you know, 25 years
later, there's a critical vulnerability that's been in
there for 25 years. And
ransomware unpacks and just takes over your network.
Yeah, totally. Yes. So Microsoft, quote, unquote, fixed
it. And by fixing it, that means they broke all printing like
they've just right. So they've spent the last literally the
last like six or seven months, releasing patches to try to fix
the original thing. They broke in a they break it even worse
every time.
So this, this really is such a such a testimonial for open
source and Linux. I mean, I'm blown away by now. I'm a Linux
Mint guy, but and I've tried Linux throughout my entire
computing, career, I guess, and professional career and it
really stuck a couple of years ago, and I've just been Linux
Mint. And it's really astounding how well everything just works.
Just works.
I've, I've been on and off of the Linux like as my main
desktop train over the years. I've went in both feet, and then
get back out and then went back in and I keep bouncing in and
out. So
are you between Mac, Mac and Linux or Windows and Linux?
Well, I'm after use them all. Yeah, but my main desktop at
home is Mac my desktop at the office is Windows, but I'm about
to switch that. I've literally got a new motherboard and I've
gotten new parts. Building a PC foo, and I'm going back Linux
baby do
you have do you have a new you gotta have a power supply. Power
supply.
I've got a decent power supply from my old machine. It still
works. But I've got a Z 690 motherboard with a meno Gen
twill Khorana. And I've got the whole you got a graphics
processor. Yeah, well, luckily enough. I had an old radio on
because you can't evidently you can't find graphics cards
anymore.
Oh, yeah. No, every everything's being used for mining.
Yeah, yeah. I lucked out and kept one from from an old
machine. But of course back to Linux, I'm going to move forward
to Ubuntu.
When it really comes to just, you know, stomping bugs and
getting stable releases out that are actually stable just works
so much better in the open source environment. It seems to
work better. And and if there's a problem, you can kind of go to
somewhere and say, Hey, man, I got a problem. And someone will
usually say this was already an issue five through two through
765. Go away. Then once you figure out how to find the
issue, stop thread hijacking. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, well, okay.
So it happens. You learn you learn pretty quick what to want
someone to point you to what you should be doing.
I never sent you my clips. No, you
did not know. I got. I did clips. I'd love some clips.
Absolutely. I mean, we have some stuff to discuss.
I'm dragging some clips over into signal right now.
It was really interesting, because the thing that that just
doesn't actually it was interesting, because the thing
that doesn't interest me at all seem to be the topic of the day,
or maybe of the week. Okay. And this is YouTube is gonna be
podcasting. Yeah. And I really haven't heard anyone say things
like, you know, you don't necessarily want your audience
to be built on YouTube. You know, it's like, you may not get
it back.
I've got I mean, I don't do you want to you want to give your
you got thoughts about YouTube? We got you got thoughts
here. I think you probably are better prepared than I am. So
I'll add color.
You run the Telestrator
Wait a minute, I want to do color illustrator. I got to talk
to him not just the draw monkey come on manager
draw monkey draw. Yeah. The
what in the world is I don't know it's a urine.
Do you hear that coming through the gate? Yeah, no, I
hear something for sure. What's going on? I mean, you're at the
office right this is this is we should have mentioned this.
Now I don't know what that is. It's some sort of horrible noise
Anthony. No, but what surely it'll maybe it's the cleaning
curse and don't worry about it. It's fine. Yeah, the know my
thoughts were Number one, I was depressed. Really? I mean, yeah.
Because you had. I don't know if you saw the Podcast Movement
stuff, all of the podcast, people just crammed into that
into that YouTube session to try to listen to like, get the
crumbs that fell off of YouTube's tail.
Yeah, everybody's all jacked up.
Yeah, that's depressing.
Oh, no, I that. Okay, no, well, I'll withhold my my comments. I
want to hear all I want your whole your full experience.
Well,
this goes back to Munchausen by 1000 proxies. Which is the, to
me the most apt way to describe the podcast industry. There is
no perhaps no industry that wants to give its autonomy away
more than the podcast industry. It's just it's like it's
constantly lusting for the next humungous corporation to come in
and take it over and ruin and ruin everything it wants. It
wants it so bad. And it's so irritating to see it. Because
it's like, I think maybe it it's like this perpetual underdog
syndrome. Maybe since podcasting started in an age of big media.
Yeah, yeah. It's always tried to be like, we want to be respected
to you know, we want we want our, you know, we want to be we
want to be one of the big boys and Oscars. So they're just
always trying to psychologically sad that that open sore or
something?
Well, the podcast, press the media does an incredible
disservice. What, but most people most podcasters have not
yet realized is where the where the value really is in
podcasting. And it is most of the most of the the newsletters
and the podcast publications. You know, they love you know,
they have their own reasons why they like scoops and big news
and, and they're still all about circulation, you know, it was
like, grow your podcast, be bigger, have more be available
in more places. We haven't seen any Terms of Service yet for
YouTube, that'll be interesting to see. And it's like you need
the most people you can get, you need more people more as many as
you can get. But that's not where the value is. Because you
wind up with some numbers and you're going to be struggling,
you're going to get some advertising, you'll have
restrictions. And if you're doing it on YouTube, or on
Spotify, you don't really own an owner's is shitty word. But you
really, you can't build a community. And that's how
podcasting has just worked out best. When it's not about trying
to get the most and be the biggest. And these numbers have
become I've met this number broken record on this. It took
me a while to figure it out. But after 15 years, I can tell you
the value is not in, in trying to be the biggest and have the
most. It's about building the relationship with your audience.
And I know it sounds kind of highfalutin, but it's really
possible. And it's not that hard, because I could do it. And
I don't have any skills. So please, No, but seriously,
seriously. And that's the mistake. And so it's like, oh,
another opportunity to make money. And then this and I'm
just gonna be and so this is I'm not depressed, I'm very happy
because I think it'll just be another another place that'll
fuck up and be stupid and not and not work. It's like It's
like all the all the it's everything's stupid. We have the
standard podcasting 2.0 We have the standard, we're setting the
standard, we have the the movement, and that's something
we can talk about, because that was also clear from the report
card and evolutions
been downloaded all that Yeah. But it's but
it's really it's always going to be a disappointment. Because
there's only it's only going to be established names or names
with marketing money behind them. And it's just it. It's
usually it's a waste of your time. It's like if you say I'm
going to start a podcast network, I would say no, no, no,
no, it's going to end bad. And lo and behold, every network
that was bought by Spotify was all pissed off and and then even
the iHeart verge had a big article about it. Oh, and we
didn't get advertising. We didn't get the attention. It
doesn't work. This is a you cannot capture podcasting
anymore. It's done. And this is ever evasive. Just Discovery is
bullshit. It's just it's good that I'm going on vacation
because I'm really fired up about this part. We don't need
some algorithmic discovery mechanism. For podcasts. That's
just not how it works. Here's a perfect example. Tina and I have
been talking about faith and religion and God on on our
podcast. And people start saying, Hey, here's a book.
Here's a podcast, this is how we discover not by going in and
saying, oh, okay, maybe if I listen to this one
recommendation will pop up. And I can listen to that for 30
minutes. It's not the same as YouTube or Twitter. This is a
inherently peer to peer medium people telling each other Hey,
you should check that podcast out. How did you find that the
last three podcasts you found? You didn't find him? Someone
told you about them? That's right. Okay. Yeah. So but
there's this, there's this. That's what's going on? And
let's be honest, the press doesn't want to talk about
podcasting. 2.0 They didn't invent it. The only the only guy
who actually reports anything is Cridland. Right. I mean, I was
very disappointed to read the podcast Business Journal, what I
learned that Podcast Movement evolutions. It means not a
single mention of any podcasting. 2.0 Nothing. But
like, it didn't happen. Like no one mentioned it was completely
absent.
If we're not there, it doesn't get it doesn't get talked about
everything other than Cridland. You know, Caitlyn talked about
the report card and stuff and showed our scores and the high
scores we got and
it was really funny. Today, um, no agenda. I wrote that down
because every single time before the donation segment, I was
plugged podcasting. 2.0 do podcast apps calm. And so I had
it written down. It's like, yeah, you know, it's the most
recent Podcast Movement evolutions you know, podcasts
index got the top numbers above Google and Amazon and in
creativity, innovation, all this stuff. And and the vortex have
well, of course, you're putting those got everyone out of
business those losers. I'm like, holy shit. And then he said,
Tell me about this. This update thing this this that it updates
so quick. And like 60 seconds. Totally shit. Devorah was asking
me about pod. Nose. Yes. And then he said, and then he said,
Apple should be ashamed of themselves there. They're
wasting all this energy and resources. I was blown away. I
do. Wow. Yeah.
more mainstream. I
think we're getting there when divorce tech is has something to
say about it. I was that was Wow. Okay.
Yeah, that's, that's we've turned the corner evidently.
This wheels up, baby. That's what I mean, when we onboard
wheel wheels up.
I don't know if you remember. Of course, you remember this?
That's a stupid thing to say. But I don't know if maybe people
remember the timeline the way we do. But let me just throw this
out at you. I mean, I was thinking back about you on
YouTube. And the thing that the thing that strikes me about
YouTube is it's it's very good at search is very good at video
search. And video, I think is a medium that lends itself to, to
easier search than audio. I hope that that's not just May I think
that's probably fairly self evident. Because there's a, we
don't, I think we discount the visual component of search, even
for things that aren't images and videos. So like when you do
a Google search, there's a very visual component to what you
get, you get the results back.
I'm gonna I'm gonna agree with you 100% Because this happens to
me every day. I'm looking for a clip of Jen Psaki talking some
shit on some certain day that I do the search. And sometimes
I'll search directly on YouTube. And just by the thumbnails, I
can see if it's the right outfit. I know it's the right
setting. Oh, yeah, it's very important completely agree.
And, and it's not just that's not even just video. If you do a
plain vanilla Google search, a lot of times you can instantly
spot something, just that you know, that's the thing you want
just by the headline without even reading
or how many times have you been searching for something and you
hit the image tab? Because you know, you're so that's what I'm
actually talking about that thing?
Mm hmm. Yep. If you're searching for a person, you just know the
person what they look like you don't you know, like that.
Sometimes the image search will get you there faster than the
actual text search.
You know what we need? We need a chapter image search.
That's a good idea. Dear chapter,
hey, put it on the list.
Where's my list? Here's the list. I found it. I'm going to
title this the list
view list view list is going to be huge. Your chapter
image search. Okay? That. So if you search, if you think back in
time to the history of YouTube and how they sort of became
dominant in that area. Do you remember? Back when? Okay, so
there was Google Video? Yes. And what would happen all the time
was you would go and search for something. And you know, it's a
video and this is I think this is sort of pre YouTube
dominance. And a lot of people don't under weren't there. They
weren't know what
to do.google.com was a go to. Yeah, yeah.
And it would occasionally surface some YouTube results.
But hold on a second. It was way before YouTube
was independent, though. That's when YouTube was just a little
startup before they get bought
wasn't even on the radar. As far as I'm concerned. It was almost
nothing. Yeah. And so then, because then because they had
YouTube. If I can just interrupt. Yeah, yeah, good.
YouTube did a couple of things. One, it use flash. data. So it
played super fast. It didn't have to load anything. There was
no embedded players, believe it or not, that was the thing. And
of course, it was free posting and transcribing. You used to
have to transcribe upload have crap loads of storage, and
forget the bandwidth costs to here it was it was free. That's
what it was. Yeah, it was easy, fast. Free. It worked on any
device.
Yep. And then you had you had the the whole ecosystem, like
the video landscape back then was way more distributed. He had
a Vimeo and you had,
we had video podcast, via podcast.
So at one point you had, you had Vimeo, Google video, YouTube,
was independent at the time, and then you had a whole slew of
video podcasts and other smaller platforms. And then, Google
tried to start indexing those into the Google Video Search.
And it was horrible. Yeah, I never found anything decent. And
shit would just go away to just this year. And they would always
surface like the low quality versions of stuff, and you
couldn't find the good, you know, it's out there. But you
can't find like, the higher quality and all it was, it was a
bunch of garbage really. And then then YouTube, they they
bought it integrated the search, where YouTube became a first
where YouTube search results became first class citizens
within Google search. And that was it, that that very much
mean, just wipe the floor with everybody else. There. There's
no such equivalent to that, in podcasting, you can't do the
same thing. That's, you can't take the audio medium, and, and
replicate that thing with it. And that's why they're going you
look at all the sort of the preview tech of what's been
rumored and released a little bit so far. In it's all just,
you know, try to use try to use artwork, try to use, you know,
fancy still images, try, you know, try to you please, we'll
pay you $50,000 to switch the video. But I think they
inherently know that this is not an YouTube is not an audio first
medium is not going to be in it's not going to have the only
way they can get discovery through their search stuff to
work the same way that they did with with the original Google
with original video search is if they just take all of the
podcast platforms and just forced them into this metadata
funnel. And it's not possible. They can't do it. I just
I'm gonna tell you this isn't this is gonna be a sad launch.
It could be all kinds of stupid issues there. Now that I hear
about ingesting RSS feeds does that mean they're going to suck
in the audio and the end and they will store the audio? I
mean, this is a big no this is a this is the one of the reasons I
am going to turn 180 degrees on the block tag. Yeah, I don't
want these eight. And and by the way, it's a farce to think that
you have to be everywhere. It's not true. Joe Rogan doesn't have
to be everywhere. Oh, Yeah, he's getting $200 million. That's not
the point is your is your community is wherever you want
to be. If you distribute CD ROMs cassettes they will no agenda
used to do that no agenda CDs used to have. I think we used to
have cassette does see actually yes, CDs, cassettes, I remember
that, yeah, CDs Yeah, with 1000s of CDs, that thumb drives all
kinds of different ways of distributing. That's not where
the value is. This this is it's a fundamental switch you have to
make in your brain, that it's unimportant. What's important is
that either you can build a community around the topic that
you're talking about, or if it's about money, that you make the
most money without compromise. Obviously, I'm gonna tell you
value for value as the way to do that. But without compromise
part is really important. And when you I mean, are we insane?
It's like the already the consumer is choosing is having
to make choices among streaming video and different music
services. And it's becoming too crazy. There's too many apps
there's too many bills to pay. And now you're going to do the
exact same thing on the other side. Oh, I got to go check out
my Spotify comment to go check out my YouTube stuff. Oh, got to
check out my stats here. Got to check out my Apple stuff. This
is dumb. So So yeah, whatever you however, you said that it
would just just was it man Munchausen by 1000 proxies that
we use you call? Yeah. It's it's totally it's it is listen to the
pod father for once. That's a wild goose chase. I did it I ran
I did it. I raised the money. I did all these things. It doesn't
pan out base because it's not centralized. That's one really
good. That's a really good point you made about Rogan. I mean,
he's, he's on one, he's in one place, you got to go jump
through a whole bunch of hoops to go listen to him. And people
evidently are jumping through the hoops they need to go to
listen to us about the content. Sure. And if he Yeah, he's
making you know, a couple 100 million dollars on on Spotify.
But if he left Spotify today and went, you know, just to
somewhere B and went back to the open podcasting ecosystem,
everybody just falling back there. Yeah, it's
absolutely. And you know, and if you really look at the numbers,
reminder, 40% of women surveyed, listen to podcasts on their page
in the player on the page. And I know Stephen is working on
something for curio caster, but you know, take this into
account. This is why I love cast coverage. You know, it it
doesn't always have to be the same type of interface either.
There's many different avenues we've just not explored yet. But
yet, you know, YouTube, so it's boring. It's really boring. And
of course, then of course the the real the lead of the story
is Oh, advertising. Oh, you'll get YouTube advertising. Oh,
third partner advertising. Oh, Google advertising algos.
Discoverability whoo subscribe, like smash that like button. I'm
mocking it but I mean it this is bullshit. This is dumb. Is does
I
really want I don't really know. Oh, as Okay, as a as a pod as a
podcaster when you look out into you know, sort of what the quote
unquote podcasting industry I mean, use in you see what
YouTube looks like with the 50 ads, you know, for every video
in it and that kind of thing. I mean, is that really what people
want?
No, they're not thinking about that. Dave is thinking about
this starry eyed. Do you know what the single single best
thing is that the no agenda show has done in almost 15 years. The
best thing we have done to strengthen the community and to
actually raise our income
was that I take
a guess
newsletter
newsletters is critical but that's that that's been there
from that's kind of part of the system but the best strap on
we've added no agenda social.
Ah, okay.
That's where ideas are born. Now you know that it's It's Our
Community, they can interface with other people. It is it is a
very, very cost effective Of course, the way no agenda runs
that we have, you know, Aaron er, He's maintaining the whole
thing out of the goodness of his heart, part of time, talent,
treasure. These are the things that matter. This to two
families have been living off of value for value and and no
compromise. And not on Spotify. You know, Apple barely updates
us. You know, not on Amazon. Doing fine, happy. I don't feel
like I'm not like I don't have reach or my show hasn't grown
enough. I know a lot of people are rolling their eyes at me not
right now. But you never hear this. It's always how do I grow
my show? As you grow your bank account? That's what you're
really saying. You want to make more money. Okay. Well, let me
tell you a better way.
YouTube. Well, speaking of speaking, people rolling their
eyes at you want to have printed out some some of these comments
from the report card. Do Now
I want to say up front, I don't like the report card. Even
though we come out favorably. I don't like the sample size is
small. I don't like that it's not third party verified. It's
not really a good measure. It's fun. And then I also don't
really like cherry picking of comments. Either we see all the
comments,
and I got them all.
You got them. Okay.
I'm all not just for us. But for that I asked James and he said,
and he sent me all of them all the comments, not just for us,
but for all of the for everybody for Apple, Apple. Me all of the
comments.
Alright, so I'm not really a big fan of this. It's industry
people probably considering where where the weather survey
was done. So you know, there's a lot of things you don't know.
And so yeah, we we come out great. I totally appreciate
that. But I can't be celebrating other than for the PR value of
it. Because it's it's not really a scientific study, in my
opinion.
Well, I got it. I got it more for the criticisms than for the
for the good stuff.
Okay, you want to hurt me? We want to hurt me before we go on
vacation. Okay, good.
Well, I want to bring you I want to bring you low. Take me down,
and you'll
build me back up. Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready. Cut me.
I think it's probably it's probably a good idea to look at
some of these look at some of the negative comments because
they may be they may be onto something we may be blind and
missing thing. Okay. Okay. Let's see, I highlighted a few that
stood out to me now.
Hold on, hold on a second. There was one other problem I had in
there. Do you have the questions there as well?
No, I just, I, I've ordered this by like section. So like
onboarding, monetization innovation? And then I just
printed out the comments.
Okay. Because the, the real problem I had was with the the
phrasing of the question about monetization.
Okay. I don't remember how it was phrased. Yeah. You got you
got to
Yeah, I got to find it here. The report card all right, why don't
you read the comments now and I'll look up the codes of
question didn't even mention value for value lightning or
even Bitcoin just said crypto and tipping. Like come on, man.
That's bullshit. I didn't know that. Yeah, that was that.
I don't think we'll see. I think that goes back to the your
original thing of the this being sort of industry specific
because
Oh, yeah, it's everyone's into advertising. who answered this?
No one wants to be cut out of advertising. No value for value
is not not the way it's gonna go.
Oh, yeah. But I guess what I mean, is I think they probably
already know what it is. So the question is probably well,
no. Okay. Hold on. Read the question. I have the question
here. Okay. These services offer ways to help your cod podcast
make money from subscriptions to tipping and crypto. How well do
they work for your podcast? Oh, come on. Testing that's it's
fine. But that's not what we offer. It's not it's not and we
don't offer shit.
We don't read that's the thing is we don't offer anything.
Yeah. All right. So
that that was my real gripe is the question like that is I
can't take these answers seriously.
Well, okay, there's still good stuff in here though. This. Let
me see, let me say, I'll start off with a good one. How about
this?
I'm gonna give me all bad ones. It's fine.
I'm gonna say this could be a good one first. Next is the only
index that seems to take the time to remove garbage anchor
feeds Plus supports namespace extensions.
Yeah, well, that's all you baby. Dave Jones is the man.
Well, let's meet when we found one that is for is about you.
Let's see. It's a very
good dynamic. We have
Here's this is a good one for you, you're gonna like this
podcast index and podcasting 2.0 are really innovative, but I
don't like the crypto focus around that. This burns our
planet and raises the profit of Mr. Curry. See, I knew by by
reading that that laugh instead of hurt your feelings. Yes.
No it doesn't because I saw this comment this this, this joker
answered three comments. It was so obvious it was the same
person he's killing the planet is burning it up with this damn
crypto horrible man.
He's arrived. He's rising your profit though? Well, luckily,
Greenpeace and the XRP douchebag are going to save us as we
change the code. So we're good to go.
So I would like to make some commentary on this. Within there
was there's a few comments like this, here's, here's another one
probably saying SEO, podcast index, like they have tags for
donation, but they need to move past their infection,
infatuation with Bitcoin. It's more harmful than it is
valuable. And aside from it being a pyramid scheme
contributing to the climate crisis, the barrier to entry is
too high for listeners, let alone podcasters. I understand
the culture of value for value model comes from. But sure
that's great for libertarians, but I'm happy sticking to the
sidelines throwing stones from the right side of history.
That's funny. I like that. I like it. Yeah. Well, I
guess I guess we should we should consider that advertising
based petro dollar system. That's working out. Great.
That's clean. That's the clean energy for you.
Great. The how many? How much? How much? How much fossil fuel
does a like a like a tank? Burn? Like? Oh, gallons a mile? Those?
The military is the biggest polluter? Yeah, yeah.
We're all in dollars to the petro dollar. Sure. But so just
in general, I want to say this. I want criticism. It's it's how
things get me it's how things get better. For me, bugs don't
get fixed. If they aren't reported. People, you know, you
you have to, you have to have people out there that tell you
negative things. When you're building and creating, you need
it. Be nice. Assume you don't know everything. I think that's
probably a good place to start when you're giving criticism.
But also remember that when you're criticizing, think about
note, you have to understand who you're criticizing. We're a
bunch of people with day jobs, and no money. We're not Apple,
we're not Spotify. And when I say we, I would like to define
what we is we is anybody who participates in podcasting. 2.0
Because podcasting 2.0 is not Adam and Dave, podcasting. 2.0
is about 100 Different people all doing different things,
sometimes just making comments. Yes, right. That is what we is.
And every one of us have day jobs, most of them not involving
this project. So this is a labor of love of everybody involved.
So when you're criticizing, it's fair to criticize and it's it's
good, do it please do criticize. But remember who you're
criticizing and what is actually going on on the other side of
the criticism
and allow me to expand because yes, value for value streaming
payments are incredibly important to me. So when people
criticize me, let me explain why I have pioneered a model that
with Jhansi Dvorak, that allows us to make content which is
very, very precious to us very dear to us. So we have no
restrictions. It is completely what we want. And we and we
chose that path which meant we could not take advertising. We
we have. So podcasting 2.0 was also for me not just to ensure
that our podcast would be available at least on an app
somewhere that I could point people to so they could use it.
Should Apple decide just like the decided with Alex Jones or X
22 that all of a sudden we're no good. But worse we're incredibly
vulnerable with our money supply. At payment processors,
anything could be shut off at a whim the the news is full of
these of this You can you can be supporting a Canadian trucker
and get your money turned off. That could happen to me. So when
it comes to booster grams and value for value, I'm really,
really passionate. So yeah, that's what you're hearing. It's
not infatuation, I don't have the luxury of going back to the
petro dollar advertising route, not mentally, but also just it
wouldn't be accepted. I can't I can't even create programming
for it anymore. Doesn't mean I'm invalid or should be pushed
aside or told to shut up or stop your infatuation, you
libertarian douche
that was well delivered.
Thank you, thank you. I'm, I want to be podcast or one day
I'm working on.
The I mean, if you want a good example of this, I keep going
back to this, you know, from time to time is, and you don't
do this. We're in a climate right now. Where the people
getting canceled, or all all seem to be seen. It's not all
there's plenty of people on the left getting canceled too, that
you never hear about. But for the most part, there's a lot of
right, right ish and libertarian leaning people that get
cancelled and a lot of them are easy to vilify. From from the
left. But please understand that can change. history, history is
any indication, it not only can change but it will change. If
you want a good example of that read Ty B's Matt Davies latest
thing about meat censored. Yeah, Chris Hedges. Yeah. Former New
York Times guy not not a right guy, not a right leaning guy at
all. His his his thing that got him canceled was he's anti war.
And I can guarantee you that will get you canceled. And we
don't want people like that getting canceled. We need people
Yes, criticize, or
yes, we want we want everyone to speak everyone to say whatever
they want. So so don't make yourself vulnerable. Don't give
don't give yourself away to YouTube and Spotify don't sign
their documents read what they're saying. And more and
more importantly focus on your audience, whatever you want out
of them. There's no such thing as Wolfman Jack anymore, you
know.
So there's one more thing create the we also includes the we have
podcast in Tupelo also includes listeners, let Yes. And all the
people in here that commented in the report card, if they want to
participate, yes, they can participate easily. Podcast
index dot social, Twitter, GitHub, any of that stuff, they
can participate. We keep a team's repo that Mike Newman
updates all the time with names of people do distributors hop in
and just make comments. And you're on the list and you're
part of the you're part of the team. And but I want to say this
creating is not stopping things you don't see any value in. So
let me try to be more clear. It's not creating a thing to pop
in, and try to get other people to stop doing a thing. That's
not creation. That's just commentary. If you want to
create something new, do it create, create a new thing, help
create a new thing. But don't mistake that don't mistake
telling somebody else they ought to stop doing a thing as an act
of creation, because it's not. It doesn't mean it's not
valuable, if the thing they're doing is something that you feel
strongly about. But let's just keep those two things clear.
Those aren't the same thing. Is that fair?
Yes. You know, as you're as you're talking about this,
here's a thought that ran through my mind. If we had gone
you if Adam and Dave had drawn up a proposal and said, Okay,
we're gonna create the world's largest independent database of
podcasts. We're going to make an API available to any developer
who wants to come in and do this. We were going to expand
the functionality of podcasting. We're going to add a Bitcoin
payment system native to the whole shebang. Adam and Dave
could have gone to Andreessen Horowitz and gotten 100% million
dollars and it would have sucked. It would have sucked.
That's the experience that we bring. And you're absolutely
right. The beauty of this project is because of the nature
of any one, you can throw sticks and stones, rocks, whatever you
want at it. But it really comes to life when you start to
participate.
Example of participation. So Alex has just brigade, Mr. Good,
yes, Mr. Gates. He has a new proposal for a JSON payment
token, which, which is a way of verifying proof of like giving
validation or proof of payment. So that's one thing that's
missing is, if you can say, you can say that you can see that a
thing was paid, but you can't tell who paid it. That's native
to lightning. Right? That's, that's an intentional, yes,
intentional and, but that can be a problem. Sometimes, let's just
say if you've used, let's say, you've paid for a subscription
to something, you need to say, Hey, I'm the one that did that.
That was me. Because I want to verify my identity so that I can
go and get so I can claim the subscription. So down the line,
there's going to be a need for things like this for payment,
verification. And he wrote up a very nice proposal, and we
tested it out works works well. With lnd, we were able to verify
some payments. And it's all it's all open source. And it's up on
that get up on the GitHub for the namespace right now.
Good question. Does this in the future, because I've been paying
attention to authentication with your lightning node, and your
your lightning key, I guess, your your, your key pair? Is
this something that will fold into that? Because I think we're
going to see a lot of authentication in the future
being done through a lightning key pair instead of many other
options. That's a hunch.
Yeah, this is similar. This is based on a JW T, a JavaScript,
JSON web token. And you can, it's, it's based on the
properties of the lightning payment, so the payment hash,
and the amount paid. So you're, you're basically you're you're
hashing these, these critical parts of the payment, and then
come up with with a, you know, with a value, and then coming
back and saying, you know, here's, here's the proof that,
that I'm the one that hash, because you can write it right.
So it can be out of band.
That's interesting, because that's not something that would
be enlightening at a certain point.
A pot, it's possible. Except, you know, Kison throws a wrench
in the whole work, because,
of course it does. Broadcasting money is the part that very few
people understand. It takes a broadcaster to understand how
damn cool that is. But it's not natural for most people, I
think.
No, and it's not natural for for lightning, either. It was you
know, it's a
hack. It's really a hack. Yeah. Love that.
Yeah. So we that's, that is an example this proposal is is
going to come in predict very important down the line. And
when we start to do more complex things, I love it. And that is a
thing that nobody told Jay, nobody told Alex to do that. He
did it himself completely independently. And it's part
that is another contribution to podcasting. 2.0 is a
contribution to the whole world, honestly, but its contribution
to podcasting. 2.0 specifically, no, that is how this project
works. That's how it works. People do what they want. Nobody
sets the rules. People do what they want. And as part of a
shared vision, we create standards. Anybody can create
one and the whole group that's it, we give it we give feedback.
But nobody tells anybody else what to do. Not how this whole
thing works.
It also did I don't think I've ever even seen that happen.
I don't think either and which is awesome. Yeah. And the way
that that goes, that's just part of these
records. We all we all know that you really you're really the one
that holds our MK Ultra key. You've got us by the nose We
just follow Dave. Just burn, burn it down. Yes, Dave.
Here's one. See, the podcasting in the podcast index gives hope.
But it needs to become a standardized body if it wants to
make any real impact, in my opinion, that goes back to what
we were just saying. We're building standards. But we're
not. We're not a governing body.
No. Nor do we aspire to be an I've only had poor experiences
in them and observing them.
Yes. Yeah. As soon as you sneeze, you stick a 501 C three
on it and start doing all this stuff. It just all goes
together. And
when you have to have a meeting, I think that's when it starts. I
just what I love about the dev meetings, they are they're kind
of random ad hoc, it just they happen. The swarm of the flock
of birds, you know, I'll go left we'll do a dev meeting. Yeah,
these things are really these are, it's beautiful. It's as I
said it before some of the most beautiful things I've ever
worked on. But you know, there's a lot of, well, this kind of
folds into branding positioning, and I know that you're working
on a, you're writing something. Yeah, that I presume is not done
yet. You want to talk about it?
Yeah, it's not done yet out? Yeah, we'll do. It'll definitely
be out by the next show. So we'll talk about it then. But
it's, it's more of a vision piece. And I just had this kind
of realization that from from reading these comments that we
have not because there was a lot of this, let me let me interrupt
myself. There was a lot of things that felt fell into this
general response. What is podcast index? Question mark?
Like there was a lot of that. Sure. Or I hadn't heard of
podcast index, or I don't know, podcast index. What is it? I
mean, there, there was just a lot of comments like that. Oh,
absolutely. Of course, because it's completely screwed up. It's
very, it's very unclear. Absolutely. It this. And but
again, this is what we're working on. And Daniel J. Lewis,
painfully put together a Docker for me to now go figure out on
my on my vacation. It's gonna be great. Just, it's simple. Just
follow these instructions. On vacation. But it's, it's that
important to me. But, you know, what we clearly are seeing is,
you know, this was all placeholder and now we're
getting more into okay, what is podcasting? 2.0 Well, it's a
number of things. Now, it can live at podcast index.org But it
just has to be completely different when you get there,
you know, we're screaming, you know, like, directory. You know,
that's what it screams when you get there. new podcast apps.com
is functional that works. You know, people get that it's like,
okay, and they see it, but you don't really get there from the
homepage. So that's it's all it's all complete branding mess,
which is, it was just fine to me because we're gonna figure out
exactly how to say it pretty soon to
the now we've talked about we talked this week about focusing
more on just being a standards or not more on being let me try
and well I'm not trying to say we we talked about standard
standards as the way to communicate the things that
we're doing
Yes. Which I like a lot the podcasts and not even staying
plural just the podcast standard.
Yeah. And so that that brings up some that I wanted throw throw
at you you know, we've talked about it only see if I can find
this comment this is actually there is a really sort of
critical comment here. And that I don't necessarily agree with
but it is worth reading if I can find there's like there's
something like you they should have podcast index should have
put in this should have replicated all the iTunes tags
immediately. They've wasted months bobble? Oh, yeah. Oh,
here it is. Here it is. Okay. Podcast index has made some
colossal mistakes. Okay. Re innovating existing podcast
namespace protocols, instead of just starting with, instead of
starting with integrating all of Apple's namespace stuff was an
extremely poor idea. And they've wasted months on an area of
podcast tag that's questionable at best. I guess he's talking
about crypto. It's shocking. This is the group that just
might save podcast.
We'll get there no matter what Brother
Yes, if they can focus. Now that I'm back to searching their
directory. I hope they expand the search functions to at least
at least to all available date data Then I hope they can start
crunching and crawling and you know, indexing. Okay, so this is
search guy. Yeah. So, but I wanted to focus on this re
innovating existing podcast namespace protocols, instead of
starting with the integrating all of Apple's namespace stuff
was an extremely poor idea. No, well, it's because you don't
understand what, what what was good, what was going on. I think
I think you're probably missing a critical sort of political
component to this. And I don't mean politics with a big pay, I
mean, a small p politics with when you in order to circumvent
the uselessness of just replicating something that
already exists. So you, you have a namespace, what and what we
have is a vision, and this is going to come out in the article
in the article I'm writing, we have a vision for what the
future of podcasting can be, what it can look like, the
things that listeners can do. In order to get there you need we
needed a namespace. And so concomitant with that, we have
this, this notion that, okay, we can kill two birds with one
stone by having new things that we want to enhance the division
of podcasting, podcasting, 2.0. And then also, we can use that
to sort of bring in all the existing podcast stuff into one
cohesive namespace. But you'll never, ever get anybody to adopt
the quote unquote, podcast namespace, if all it does is
from the beginning is replicate the iTunes namespace tags up
somebody, it's, you can't sell that to anybody.
I can't believe you're defending yourself over this,
I think, I think is mildly important. Because I can see the
confusion would come it's like, okay, well, if you're going to,
it makes a sort of sense. Okay, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
start, you ought to start with pulling in what's already there,
so that you have a baseline, like, you could defend that. But
the defense is not, is not adequate. The defense doesn't
hold up, because it won't ever get off the ground, what you
need is new things. And those things happen to serve the
vision, but they also give adopters a reason to implement
the thing that you created. Then later, which is what we're
beginning to do now. Later, you bring it you begin to adopt the
existing things in there. Because already now we have, you
know, well, probably close to 400,000 podcast feeds out there
that have the podcasts namespace declared in the Yeah, header,
and thank you. Once that happens, then everybody already
has the declaration, and they can start to just expand the tag
base.
I was. You know, the Buzzsprout sponsors, pod news, or pod land,
I think. And so, you know, James has a thing and he says, this
week, 3942 people started podcasting it Buzzsprout and I
hear that and I think well, let me add about the same number for
RSS comm. This week, 10,000 people started using the podcast
standard, the podcast namespace. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we that's,
that's the truth.
Yeah, that's the way that's that's what it means. Yeah. And
it's absolutely great.
So anyway, to bring this all round, full circle, if YouTube,
which will see hundreds of 1000s, I guess, feeds with with
a namespace in it. If YouTube is seeing that, and they should
understand this as a standard, it would be quite a shame if
they didn't facilitate forward in their system, or anybody else
for that matter. And if they don't, when you literally are
seeing this being provided, why are you not doing that?
Yeah, it makes
no sense. It's free. You know, here's another thing. I want to
call my, my death listeners. I have them deaf and blind. The
blind ones. There's also a lot of heart but hard of hearing is
more correct. And English as a second language. They love the
transcripts. They love them. They really do. How many people
say man appreciate the transcript because you know, I
got cranked up to 11 Basically, he's a deaf guy making podcasts
for a deaf person which is just hilarious. Okay, Then I look at
all this money going into high end content podcasts. And I
think you Hollywood douchebags, the best movie winner, the best
movie was coda, a movie about deaf people. And you can't be
bothered to put transcripts in your podcast, you hypocritical
dishes. It's really outrageous. I mean it it's outrageous. Now I
agree. And where all the advertising jag offs I'm really
on a roll today.
You are like, I like pre vacation.
Where we are, we can wait and wait till after vacation. Hey,
man. Hey, baby, how is he doing? I love everybody. So YouTube, I
Love you Youtube. Where's all the advertising people who are
going to glean context from transcripts? What are we waiting
for? If you really are in the in the game, if you're in the game
of advertising, you want to be indexed. Why don't you have
transcripts? Oh, it's not free? Oh, I see. Okay, got it. Check.
Yeah, it costs an extra 30 cents doesn't
just Buzzsprout. Does anyone provide transcripts for their
service and the modest software aiming? Well as a part of the
part of the the monthly?
I don't know. I don't know how that's built in. I'm assuming it
is. Yeah. I don't know.
One or two how to make anyway. I'm just saying, I don't
understand. I understand. I get nothing but happiness from
people over the transcripts. People who get the MO facts,
transcripts. Oh, my goodness, people use these to to search
all the time. Yeah. Some guy actually put together a
searchable database, which is this markdown thing. And it's
some app and you throw a whole bunch of markdown files into a
folder and it becomes this awesome search engine.
What does that
G O have to look at? Something with a B? I think,
Okay. Well, I want this might be a good time to play a clip.
Okay. This is I would not normally play Leo. But this is a
good this is a pretty good Leo clip. This was from
when the Leo Laporte you mean from this week in tech? Do you
do you watch this week in tech regularly?
No, I never watched this weekend. This is from Windows
weekly.
Oh, okay. I like Windows weekly. Yeah.
But the context of this is they're talking about why
companies don't do things that are best for their users. So
this is this is good and context of all of this stuff. Retama,
YouTube and everything. And what, why don't businesses just
and this is specifically in the context of why windows 11 does
not allow an easy way to switch your default browser. And why
they keep junking up the built in Edge browser chunking it up
with a bunch of crap nobody wants, right? Which all it does
is self serve them by putting more bang stuff in front of your
face.
Yeah, until you register more and add more and buy more.
Yeah, so this, they're talking about what you know, what's good
for business are good for the listener.
Getting, you know, getting out of the way of all the times, you
know, get let the content shine through. It's about the content,
not the chrome or blah, blah, blah. And now there's like 118
built in features in edge. And it's like, yeah, now what's it
about your icon? Like? It's, well, that's all just want to go
to the sites they go to? They don't want your nonsense for
collecting Welcome
to capitalism. You know, that's in a nutshell. What's wrong with
computing, in general, is that instead of doing what the best
for the users and the customers, they do, what's good for
business? And it's this tension, how far can we push? What's good
for our business without pushing away customers, but it's always
gonna be for what's good for the business?
Yes, no, of course.
Yeah, that's, that's it. And it's funny because if there's
no, if there's no cliche about this, then there ought to be one
that people kind of people are like, free market in their 20s.
And they get maybe they get more socialist as they get older. Or
maybe it's via the other way around. The other way around. It
was one or the other, but,
but there's something new going on here. And and it's this
project in particular, that is new and I'm I'm just going to
say that it is My belief that because there is a common bond
of value for value where anybody from the person doing chapters,
even some people who comment, you know, we have value splits
for all kinds of people across the board to app developers.
There's, you know, there's interest from everybody somehow
I think that's the common bond. Whereas it's, it's capitalism or
its capital, its has capitalist ideals, but in a very, for me,
novel way. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. I think that's
the difference with our project. Because you're right. I mean, if
we, if we went on got $100 million, not hard to do, by the
way, it would have sucked, I mean, it would have fired you.
And I would have been so unhappy, I'll tell you that. I
think I told you that in the beginning, let's not be unhappy.
Let's do this, do it this way.
And we'll play play clip to computing would
be so different. In a world where companies just said, you
know, Jeff Bezos is false mantra, you know, customer
centric. If they just said, Look, we're just going to do
what's right for the customer every single time. I think it
would be a different experience such
a good story, because they all do say that.
Yeah, they don't lie. Yeah. Because I mean, for instance,
messaging, a unified all messaging would talk to all
other message. Yeah.
It's better for Apple's customers all messaging is not
unique. No one uses Apple products, has friends that don't
use Apple products.
So why would you ever crazy? How can you? Droid why would you
ever say it's? So I mean, there is this kind of, and it's
completely bogus, you utopian vision. But there's this kind of
notion of and, and you know why it persists is because people
like you and me, Paul are old enough to remember a day when
computing was a hobbyist thing, not a business thing. It didn't
last very long. But at that, at that point was very exciting and
interesting. And you felt like, you know, we were working
together. And and then you know, AOL came along?
Yeah. Okay. That's the first thing. We just talked about the
hypocritical nature of Mr. Laporte here. Yes. Trying to
avoid that, now that now you can avoid that. I mean, he literally
has named his studio after a software package and will and is
unable to talk about anything else. I mean, so it's completely
hypocritical, what he's saying here, especially for someone
who's supposed to be giving independent technology, review
reviews and news, etc. So the Yeah, it will. Well, the analogy
was good, though. Yeah. Because Apple computers. And I think we
could if I've never looked at it this way, but you could probably
map it. They have two types of audiences, consumers and
creators. And we have the same, we have listeners and
podcasters. And how to the, the Holy Grail, of course, is to
have those two, interact, I think Apple tries to capture
everybody in the ecosystem. And we tried to create protocols and
standards that allow that to happen, such as comments and
booster grams and this kind of stuff. But it but we do, also,
it's very challenging. And I think you can often see, when
the creation side of the dev team with an apple is much more
ahead of everything else. And they're kind of driving the
innovation, versus when they did Final Cut Pro 10. And they
fucked it all up. So there was someone else was focusing on
something, or, you know, Apple Maps, when it first came out the
new iOS maps, which was a disaster, you know, these are
not typical Apple things. So maybe they were focusing more on
on the Creator side. So I think that that may be very difficult.
It's hard also for an app developer to think that way for
anybody really.
But when when he was talking in Chem, making me think is like,
why, why about this tension between doing what's best for
your business or doing what's best for the customer? And this
sort of balancing act and going back and forth? Maybe, and this
goes back to podcasting. 2.0 Since this, this sort of, little
bit of a theme of of, of episode is, these is reviewing
ourselves, and looking at these criticism. Maybe the answer is
what we're is what we're actually already the position
we're already in. We don't have any customers. Maybe the answer
to doing what's best for customers is not to have any
customers.
Well, that's the best kind of business of always. I've always
said we'd have so much fun in the organization if we didn't
have any customers.
What if we kind of don't? This is true the podcasting 2.0
project doesn't have any customers to please. What we
have is a vision to satisfy. Now it means it means that we don't
it means that nobody's gonna get you know, any money off of this,
but at the same time, that's, that's okay. I mean, like, look
at look at the, you know, early. He's a pining about the early
days or nostalgic for the early days of the Internet and
computing. They those guys didn't make any money either.
Yeah, but let's just let's just app developers, I would wager
who are doing this now or making more money than they made
previously. Which might zero. It might have been some
subscriptions on the App Store. But out of the gate, out of the
gate, you can start earning pennies. It's pennies, but out
of the gate. That's unheard of. All right, let's just
put some, yes, let's envision a world Okay, envision a world
that, let's just say five, 710 years from now, who knows when
it is envision this future world where lightning has become boom,
the underlying base protocol for payments on the internet? Let's
just imagine that this works out. Lightning is lightning is
the thing. Lots of payment processors begin to do it. I
mean, there's this is already happening. Imagine the feature
let's do it looks like this. And then at some point of critical
mass in the future, when that begins to happen. Oh, big
players begin to get into this. And then the podcast index, the
smoke, all of us now we're all we're all crushed. I mean, that
will
be how it how it happens. What do you mean? Crushed? In what
way?
I mean, some some big player will come in and say like a
YouTube or something is oh, we'll just suck up all the all
the all the data and like, okay, we're you know, we're gonna
Oh, you know what? I disagree. But
okay. Me. But I guess in that world, the tech, what I'm, what
I'm trying to get at is the tech itself would survive. And people
could still Oh, yeah. Make him make the system work and make
money independently through the apps. I would
love nothing more than someone to set up a complete competing
podcast index. I'm not sure what they would compete with.
But I'd be interesting to see your customers. We have zero
customers. No,
ma'am. He's like, What are you gonna do different? You know,
it's like, okay, yeah, maybe? Yeah.
But I guess what I mean, is like the tech to tech out lives, the
crush stage. And then that goes back to the value of ray that,
you know, would the 1000 true fans still make money even if
some behemoth is also making money? I see recurring. Yeah.
Versus the current scheme where if the behemoth makes money,
nobody
nobody else makes money. Yes. Yeah. You produce everything you
get nothing.
Yes. The Silicon Valley Way. Yeah, you do all the work is
really
good. And we and by the way, we own it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
yeah, it's, I mean, there's I was talking to Dvorak about
this. I said, you know, they're trying to capture everything.
You know, Hollywood is throwing the big the big parties the big
awards. You know, look look who's who can afford to market
Listen, it's what that's what you do. That's what award shows
for that's why I'm against them. And and then to add insult to
injury, you get the the the board was that the the podcast
Academy board? Well, they've they've made some rules. And
yes, the the makeup of the board has to be at minimum 40% indie.
Now, I'm like, click. How insulting is that? Yeah, first
of all, I hate the term indie. But okay. And 40% I mean, I
don't get it. I do is because the Indies got no money. They're
not paying any dues. They're not sponsoring awards. It's also
obvious that don't fall for the trap.
About about this one. I like what the podcast index is trying
to do. But it's still seems a bit complicated for the average
user feels very command line to me rather than a friendly GUI. I
think that's fair. That's
interesting. Well, I know it All these criticisms are completely
valid. Absolutely. It makes no sense. I mean, right. And that's
why we've been promoting apps. And I rarely say go to podcast
index.org. Unless it's, you know, to click on the docs or
something like that. I mean, value. My value for value
overview isn't even linked from from the website. Yeah, it's
literally not linked.
The podcast index.org site is not really for. It's not really
for normies. I mean, though, it can it can I guess it kinda is.
I mean, you could search it
was It wasn't intended that way. But it's, it has, it's an
identity crisis with this, this tool will be fixed. Everything
takes some time. But it's not killing us. It's not ruining
anything. And I vehemently disagree that any perception of
me being a money grubbing whore, ruins anything. I also don't
think that's true.
No, and I don't know there. That's what I said the other
day. I mean, there's like, you've been in the public acids,
you're 19 years old, there's gonna you're gonna have enemies
and they're gonna be vocal, and he can't You can't get around.
Well, the enemy seems to be crypto or Bitcoin, not me.
Crypto, crypto, and Bitcoin seems to be the enemy. That's
what people are complaining about?
Well, we'll just we'll just, we'll just get all the Bitcoin
people together, get them all to change to proof of stake and
it's all fixed.
Done. And, you know, and that's not to be this one other thing.
There's a community that has grabbed on to our apps and our
services. You may not agree with Bitcoin, you may not agree with
with what they're talking about, but they're using our stuff.
Now, when it comes apps, I mean, I I had a really enjoyable time
listening to the the Linux Journal to Linux unplugged I
guess it is, Oh, yeah. Oh, man. It's like, it's one of the few
outside podcasts outside of our kind of group of people. I know,
because I listened to him. But they're they really they're
really serious about value for value. And they they fill out a
lot of 2.0 tags.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're they've they've really adopted
the full the full thing. And I think it's because it's because
they're concerned about the future of the podcast industry
as we know it. I mean, there are there are, there is a real
concern that in independent podcasters
Yeah, it'll be either it'll be assimilate with the board or
die, you know. Mm hmm. So DeVore Aqua saying they can't do it.
You guys already broke that. And I didn't ask him to expand, but
I think he thought about it.
Let's go so kind of proud. Yeah. No, I mean, that's, that's,
we've crossed the Rubicon
as far as we really have. Yeah, we really?
Do we want to thank some people. Yes,
I think that's a good idea.
You gotta get some sleep brother.
Night, I got four hours of best have to spin off. Dad, you know,
this way to keep telling teenagers like it's rock and
roll man, what happened to you? Come on, we got a show in
Philly, get on the bus, we got some coke to do. On the way
there. Let's go,
let's go where the girls.
Yes value for value, the entire project is value for value,
think we've been very clear why and how that works. And we need
as much help as we can get. And you can do that in many
different ways. As long as it still works. We of course,
appreciate your pay pal Fiat fund coupons. It's an easy way
to set up recurring donations. And we have a lot of those
that's a lot we have, we have some even $5 a month makes a big
difference sauce. That's a that's a server that does very
specific tasks. But the beauty of the value for value model is
you can put anything down whatever the value is to you.
And that's what makes it so, so appropriate for exactly what
we're doing it. Some people may not value this and I don't even
know why you're listening. And if you are, it's got to be
you've got at least been entertained, informed, or
annoyed. We we love hate boosts. So you can do that with a modern
podcast app, new podcast apps.com. Or you can also go to
podcast index.org. So you can find the donate button at the
bottom along with a QR code for tally coin to send us some on
chain Satoshis
I just like the word on chain. This sounds like a metal band.
On chain. Yeah.
Hello, Philadelphia.
We just got off the bus. Meet our girls. Yo yo, do we thank
him today,
sir Shaun of the Allegheny Valley 1000 SATs. Let's see. He
says first boost
go Welcome to the club.
I just, I just did a boost dump.
Email. This is a new term a boost dump.
Yeah. Like, I run the script, I give it a time code of the last
show. And then it just gives me every boost that happens since
that time code. It just goes boop, boop, boop boop boop, it
just pops all into my email. So this is this is I just did
it. It's, it's, it's quite a deluge.
Yes. So I'm getting I'm doing this in real time. Oh, well,
let's do pen pals for okay. We're getting we're getting out.
Yeah. Dred Scott $15. And these, this is a monthly. Thank you.
Thank you drip is a little out of order because of the nature
of things but Jeff Miller $20 That's a monthly Thank you,
Jeff. Very much appreciated. Michael Kimmer $5.33 He's long.
Been monthly for a long time. Lesley Martin $2. Thank you,
Leslie. See Pedro gon. calvus. Also longtime for $5. Very long.
Thank you. Yep. Aaron Reno. $5 as a monthly and the last one.
Oh, this was a single, not a monthly $10. No note from Jesse
Hunter. Thank you, Jessie. You're very much. Yes, those are
those are all our monthly fees.
Those are monthly. Yeah. Those are the monthly they hit this
week and then one new like one time. Okay. donation in the
restroom boosts. See? This is where it gets confusing is to
figure out when they originally came in. I think some of these
may have been live last week. But there was a 3333 from cotton
Janee said we're lit I don't think I heard you
know I don't think so. Well This of course was lit in in context
of the live item tag when your podcast goes lit we're not live
this time we know thank God
let's see. Oh David made us 3369 there Curio Castro and he says
I'm doing my duty and boost for humanity.
Thank you very much.
Boost see oh, yeah, we did we read this one about from Sir
Spencer about the Bitcoin block party in Kansas City. Abel, Abel
Kirby and I will be evangelizing podcasting 2.0 and other digital
content over value for value at the KC Bitcoin block
party. Yes. Yeah, we did. We did.
It's Westport, Kansas. Kansas City. Cool. Yeah,
very cool. On April the 24th.
Is that once we did that one came into thanks again day for
swapping our feed to the new one. We already do that. They
don't see these. The timestamps get funky on these because they
don't really match up because I know, you
know, there's this really cool tool called heli pad and it
doesn't export in Excel. Have you heard of it? You can run it
on your Umbral.
I've not heard of that. I'll look into it. Harv had 5000 SATs
through courier caster and he says tipping gets lower wages
for waiters and waitresses across the USA even still today.
That's right. That's right. whooshed. Chris, you know, gave
us 1000 SATs through fountain and he says a great example here
is tipping the dealer in poker. You only tip just after you want
a hand which greatly increases the size of the tips as you're
in good in a good mood while deciding how much to tip.
Yes, this was part of our value for value conversation
about timing and bringing, bringing the donation into the
into the actual experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a good
point. Mint lion. This is a new one. I've not heard this name
before. Row ducks. 2222 Oh, all right. Thank you Drew Brees and
he says Jonathan Edwards better watches bag Dr. Dave is gunning
for that top American philosopher spot. Mere Mortals
book reviews. Okay.
With ease. See?
Oh, this might be our this might be the baller. Look through the
list here. Yeah, yes. Baller booster here. 77 777 Whoa,
hold on a second. Who is this? Steve
Webb podcaster.
Shot Carla 20 is Blaze own I am Paula g god caster
OG God. Kastri says Steve gave that through fountain and he
says as an OG podcaster. I completely agree with you, Adam.
Comments booster grams should be separated in my opinion. There's
an assumption that booster grams are directed to the podcaster
not the public. Just my two cents. I have received booster
grants that I know would not have been sent had the sender
thought they would become public. Right Lifespring family
Audio Bible at at audio Bible dot link where we are reading
through the entire Bible in one year join us.
I've actually listened to a couple episodes. Well of course
I've listened to two episodes many many times, but I recently
started listening. He's got a great voice. He does. I thought
he was a pastor, but he's not just
just a podcaster just God caster, just God caster. Thank
you, Steve. Appreciate that. Sir Brian of London. He says,
Let me guess. 1948 And he said I see a button.
I saw it and he pushed it. Thanks, bro. Let's see. Roy Roy
Schonfeld. 54321 Who
Roy Thank you, brother. Does he have a note?
Answer through breezy says Adam. You're an inspiration heart.
Oh, oh,
I love Roy. Oh, how you doing booster. Huh? Oh, Roy. Follow up
again. With 10,000 SATs. He says Dave blew my mind. Oh.
Oh, he came back with a second boost.
I must have blown his mind. Well, it's
because you laid some cool last philosophy crap on everybody.
Brother that was hardcore. Stick around Roy was it was deep.
Yep. See, Master. That's a new one. 333 SATs through fountain
and he says greetings from Amsterdam. Yeah. Greetings.
Hello, Amsterdam.
Amsterdam.
We just got in from Philly.
Andy flattery. 2000 Sassy says pod father. Yes. The guy who
made the original stacker news post coming around coming
around. Sorry for all the drama. Oh.
You wrote the value for value is curry wrong post? Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Oh, that's cute.
Um, the guy who made the original stacker nice post. I'm
coming around. Sorry for all the trolls. Oh,
that's okay. Man know that. Hey, it got a good car. It was at
least 25 minutes of content. That's appreciated.
Totally. Yeah. Oscar, the fountain boosts are coming in
with the with the Unicode all messed up. We got to figure out
how to fix that. If you if you know about that bug, I think you
do. Anyway. See, Thank you, Andy. Appreciate that. CASB Lind
1000 SATs they found an he says do what what does he say? Do a
gas show I'm sorry. What? Do a gasps show? I'm sorry to say
without Adam. next two weeks. Is this this? This seems like
transliterated Dutch into English.
Yeah, he's I guess he's saying how do I have a guest do the
show?
Oh, okay.
I think I think he said fuck out them in Dutch. Just bring it
just bring a guest in who gives a crap about that guy. You can
do it. You can do a Dave Jones. Yeah, you're the sage
pig. This pig Dutch is with it is Dutch. Yeah. Thanks for the
boots, man. Yeah, thanks cast. Oh, yeah, here it comes again.
1000 says Cast painless. They found he says haha, rolling the
dice with the curtains closed. Okay. 1000 says from CAST
peeling. Again, he says the problem with boost versus
comments and fountain was the default public boost. The
options should be default off I would think love the boost
segment value for value. Thank you very much. See, we get next.
See 2020 to 148 from Brian of London and the hive da Oh.
Oh, that's, that's the regular donation coming through is is
Transmogrifier
B. They see. Okay, so this is this is the the V for V app.
That's that's the Rube Goldberg machine. Yeah, it says a weekly
$10 V four v donation converted to SATs from Brian of London and
the hive DHF da Oh go podcasting?
Go podcasting? Indeed. Thank you, Brian.
Yeah, thanks, Brian. 49,000 SATs from Auburn Citadel to fountain.
He says the pod stage is living up to his name when Dave Jones
philosophy when the Dave Jones philosophy podcast Thank you.
Thank you.
That was nice. It would be a bombshell.
Oh, I got a different one. Do you see the ISO there?
Sure do. Let me give it a whirl. One cop Cole woke up call. I
like that. That's a good one.
See? The mozzie give us 12,345 stats. Thank you, Brian.
fountain and he says, boost. Oops, boost. As always, thanks
for the show and all the work. Is there a new SATs equivalent
for the podcasting 2.0 t shirt? I think it used to be like
200,000 SATs with the change 225 Is it now? 250 or something
else? I don't know. It's a moving target. Right?
It is a moving target. There was a thread about this and I have
to say there's a couple a couple of apps I think it may be curio
caster was a couple of apps that that do fiyat translations.
That's kind of handy. I remember we talked about this at the very
beginning. And there was a lot of, I think, was mainly the
Sphinx guys like not we do SATs only SATs only SATs No, no fiyat
numbers. I think that would actually help. It might help get
us more money. People people realize that 1000 SATs is you
know it's true it's all appreciated. And if it's just
for quick comment of course
well here the podcasters that make you know that are making
money from the from the from value value in the app. They
seem to talk about that of course remind them and remind
their listeners of the you know the correlation there and what
I've
heard I think that seems like something that I've heard
podcasters and listeners asked for like
just decide the website USD sat.com That is a really I mean
that just tells you straight up what the current conversion is.
Yeah, thanks. Thanks very much. I'm not sure what it's just a
moving target. Yeah and the extra costs is just because we
they're nicer T shirts now and that the fulfillment cost more.
Yeah. See Thank you Ed jaunty Ms. At road ducks 2222 They
breeze. Thank you very much. He says now with 128 characters
I'm breeze That's right.
That's right. Dred Scott godson as 1000 says as a test I don't
know what he's testing but appreciate that test.
That's a test. He's probably testing his own thing. Hey, man,
let me see if I get my SATs. That's I do that all the time.
Hey, there I haven't no sat no boost since for three hours. Let
me just boost let me I'm worried Let me test boost.
Here's some stats for all your SE. Oh, this is from Jordan
Harding. Another new name, but not new boosters lately. 5000
SATs they found and he says here's some stats for all of
your genius Dave. Oh, wow.
Yay.
See? Thank you. Nicholas. Be 58 Okay, through fountain 2100 SATs
and he says do not just stand there. Boost. Boost. Great
episode. I love what you're doing. Keep it up for a better
future. Oh, thank you. Thank you. That's a great note. Got
two more. Wait no, no, we've got Yeah, got three more. I'm sorry.
Oh, you know what's messing me up here is we're doing it a day
early. So there's no CSB. I was looking at you know,
it's funny you say that because I wrote down that this in CSV
probably doesn't know that we're that we're recording right now.
I was going to give him a freebie and say remember to
listen to AI cooking with pub owner and poet laureate noble.
Somebody some force?
Well, yes, exactly. Dynamite. Yes. It's a great pot. Yo. By
the way, the recall value of value for value advertising is
off the charts, man. Everybody knows the ads. They can recall
him like crazy.
Dr. Dub gave us 10,000 sets. We're talking this is nice.
Yeah. You found and he said in his message is Dr. dub, dub.
Like get stuff from the shameless self promotion. boost
up. Pot. Podcasting legend Dave Jackson 10,000 SATs. medic. He
says love the philosophy talk from Professor Jones go
podcasting podcast.
I think we need to have more of that. David. You're a big hit.
Yeah, clearly kid with the boosters and driving boosts your
breakout booster hit
top of the charts. Kevin Bay 500 sets to fountain and he says
trying to catch up on what's going on and thoroughly enjoying
the conversation with Gigi. Keep up the great work. And that's
it. That's our group.
Very good group. Thank you all so much. much for supporting
podcasts in 2.0 If no one ever questions if this value for
value thing works, I don't know you're soaking in it maj I'm
just saying it seems to keep the project alive.
Yes. Philosophy podcast.
Value for value philosophy podcast with Dave Jones. I want
to do all the imaging for
you. But speaking of philosophy, a buddy of mine, Jordan Peterson
was here in town in Birmingham. Oh, this right here. Yeah, and,
and a friend of mine went and saw him and said it was just
horrible breeze. It was awful. Yeah. He said the tickets were
$150 Dying Gina number one here. And he said it was like a little
bit of Jordan Peterson and then just some other person. Like
doing a whole bunch. It was almost like Jordan Peterson
presents. Jordan Peterson. You know, it was just this kind of
weird. He said it was just a terrible time.
That's interesting. So it wasn't really Jordan Peterson just
doing his podcast, which everybody loves him for?
Yeah, I don't think so. It's like, it seems like he may be. I
don't know. Reading his own news a little bit too much. Maybe.
Huh. I wonder what that I'll have to look and see how the
tours build. I didn't realize that he had someone else doing
stuff. That's interesting. He was
weird at just a heads up in case I mean, anybody gets a hankering
to go see him. This doesn't sound like it's worth the
expensive ticket. Ah, you gotta get going, bro. Man. Yeah, I
guess so. Gotta get moving here. Man. Yeah. So I can't even I was
going to tell you about my idea for distributed Wikipedia. Oh,
yeah. Four hours later, I've just I'm just saying I got
ideas. But there's also so much we have to do with podcasting to
point out I'm I remain incredibly enthusiastic. The
YouTube news for me is it's it's really glorious because I want
to see them do something and and the inevitable will happen. I
have time. I'm very, very patient. And you know, it took
many many years until serial brought podcasting one Dotto to
the forefront at the right moment. So this will happen.
This will all happen at the right time.
My Favorite Comment on Twitter this past week was Yeah,
remember the last time Google wanted everybody to put their
RSS feed into one of their products? Yeah, that turned out
was that Brian of London? That was it. I don't know. I don't
remember. It should be.
He knows he knows. Yep. Our brother. No, you got some crazy
weeks coming up and the board meeting next week? We'll do once
I get back Friday night so we'll do a Saturday. Yeah, sounds
good. I'm sure it'll be cruising along checking stuff out. You
know, make sure you kick me off the social when I'm posting too
much from vacation.
Oh, no. Yeah, if you if you start to break protocol, I'm
gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna smack you down.
Okay. All right, brother. Get home to your family. Get out of
that office. Yeah, man. On the way out. Could you check the
print spooler for me?
No, she has taken the fridge
that's it. Everybody, podcasting. 2.0 We'll be back
next week. Join us have a great weekend. You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast. For more information.
Cool, woke
up cool.