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podcasting 2.0 for February
25 2022, episode 75 We're liquid

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defying for love and making up
new words as we do it. Hello

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everybody, welcome to the
official board meeting of

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podcasting. 2.0 everything going
on to podcast index.org, the

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podcast namespace, and of
course, everything that we talk

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about in podcasting. Next up
social and at the watercooler.

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I'm Adam curry here in the heart
of the Texas Hill Country on

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Alabama the man who wraps up
your recommendations my friend

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on the other end, ladies and
gentlemen, please say hello to

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Mr. Dave Jones. liquid liquid
quit find for love AV

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invasion check if you've been
invaded. I'm not I have not been

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yet.

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Hold on. Any Russians? No, no,
I've not been invaded yet.

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I'll clean here from Oakland.

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Man, please don't get don't get
me started. Don't get me

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started. I'm not I just
recommend everybody watch wag

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the dog and you'll know my
stance on this. Have you ever

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seen that movie?

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Crazy 48 hours and have not I've
always heard it's one of those

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things that perpetually in the
in the social parlance, but I've

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never seen it.

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We should actually get that
trending on Netflix because it's

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Dustin Hoffman. It's it's a
comedy. It's a funny movie. But

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it explains so well. What I
think we're living through right

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now. Anyway. It's alright.
Because that's why we're here to

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save the world.

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Yet one podcast at a time.
That's right. While we run with

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once one Yeah, one, one half as
protocol or

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anything but half as Dave. The
the protocol protocols are

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great, man, there's so much
going on. And we have a great

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guest on today's show. So we can
bring him in pretty quickly. So

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anything specifically we need to
talk about right off the top

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here at the board meeting. Some
kind of buzz now what's going

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on?

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Well, I mean, I've been doing
some stuff that hasn't been

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super visible. Over the last
couple of weeks, really. I mean,

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there was a hell of had released
that. And that took some time. I

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was that's a great release. By
the way. Thank you. Thank you

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for doing all that for the
export. The CSV export is

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outstanding. Thanks for teaching
me how to import that into

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Excel. Oh, yeah. With with auto
pivot tables. Oh,

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it's a game changer.

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Yeah, I mean, especially for
someone who's made pivot tables,

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like, can I select all this and
then I got to select which

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inputs and this is just like
import from CSV? Okay.

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Well, I feel like it's stable.
Now. I feel like there's a lot

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of there's, you know, bugs or a
side effect of speed, mostly for

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the most part. And, you know,
the faster you push something

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out the door, the less chance it
gets to be tested.

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Oh, so you do in this, you know,
after hours, your lunch break. I

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mean, this is not your your
prime directive.

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But that, but I feel like after
I guess this is the third

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release. Yeah, third release, I
feel like we're Third time's a

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charm in the field we got we're
pretty stable. Now when it comes

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to getting those payloads out
reliably and not having any

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loose or what what had happened
was so Chris Fisher, of Jupiter

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broadcasting and they do like
Linux unplugged and Linux Action

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News and coder radio. They
they're heavy users of hell pad

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now. And so he had emailed me
and said, hey, you know, our

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health had just stopped, just
stopped updating. And this is,

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this is the this is the standard
bug now. Right? yellow pad just

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died, you know, it just stopped.

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Well, now, I've seen some of
this can also just be Umbral.

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Yeah, a lot of people running
unrolls, and they do have their

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issues.

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Well, what was unique about this
one is he said I'm looking at.

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He said, I opened up to see so
these are coders. These are

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developers, which is amazing to
work with. When you have other

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coders giving you bug reports is
beautiful, because they don't

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just say like, Hey, it didn't
work.

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Oh, come on. I'm better than
that. And no. No, they say, Hey,

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I think you're getting trapped
here on an escaped characters

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character. That was a Unicode ID
three centuries ago.

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Yeah, they give you they give
you all kinds of context.

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Beautiful, beautiful, lovely,
luscious context. And like he

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said, a help had stopped dating,
but I know we're getting boost

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because I opened up the SQL lite
database. Right. And I see new

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entries and I was like, yeah,
there we go. So it turned out

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that what the issue was so I was
I was stripping is a couple

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things for safety. Within help
me help as a JavaScript based,

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you know, single page app. Is
that what you want it what

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you're what you have is a
scenario where you have random

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people on the internet sending
you content, right? Yes. And you

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have to play defense,

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emojis. That was amazing. The
emojis worked. I mean, that was

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that by itself was such a crazy,
crazy experience.

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Yes, so the first, you know,
prime prime directive number

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one, when it comes to protecting
your JavaScript from random user

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generated content is, you know,
tag tag stripping within HTML,

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right? Okay, got it in,
definitely want to cleanse that.

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You don't want just anybody to
be able to send you random HTML

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tags, and then render them. So I
handle that a couple of ways. I

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built a strip tags function,
excuse me, that would strip out

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HTML tags in the message content
in but what I was doing with

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that was actually running it
over the entire JSON block after

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that was rendered since JSON. Is
not is that is the greater than

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less than characters are not
special characters within JSON.

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I'm like, okay, I can just run
that on the JSON block. And

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that'll that'll take care of it.
That'll take care of, of

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stripping tags out of
everything. If somebody decided

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to get geeky, get cute, and put
a script tag. Na,

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yay.

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Great stuff. Yeah. But
unfortunately, that's not in

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retrospect. Clearly, that has an
issue. So one of the the issue

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that was happening was, somebody
sent them a message. And they

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had a little ASCII emoji in the
message of the heart, which is

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opened, which is less than sign.
Three. So sideways heart.

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That's Ah, right.

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That never closes.

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Oh, man. Okay, that's obscure or
nice. In the the effect it had

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was that that might have been
me. I'm always doing hearts with

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asking, Can

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I do that, too? That didn't hit
me in my brain is a problem. But

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anyway, so that clearly is a
problem, because you open the

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tag and never close it. So it
would wipe out the end of the

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Jace, there was half a JSON
block in there. So just totally

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screw it up. Oh, anyway, went
back and cleared that did proper

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escape, you know, at field level
escaping on all the tags and put

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that implemented that as a
trade.

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So now is this is this now a
GitHub project where people can

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start contributing is someone
you know, I mean, I don't want

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to default to you. But I mean,
is this now going to be

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enhanced? I mean, a lot of
people have great ideas.

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Hopefully, some coders can do
some stuff, because man.

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Yeah, a couple of people have
already forked it and stuff. And

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we've already had a couple
contributions to do that have

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been merged in. Yeah. It's
definitely an open project.

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Anybody can. Anybody can stick
me a stick whatever they want to

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in there, as long as it makes
some sense. Nice. No, yeah. No,

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it's good release. And I think
the CSV export, there's a couple

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of bugs I found in that as a
result of you sending me your

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database, because you, your
database is so big, it lives

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what she said. I'm sorry, I had
to do it.

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Your database is so is so big.
That it gave lots of opportunity

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for

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for crap. Yeah, fairy furniture
for Well, what I you know, I

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just wasn't prepared to start
posting bug reports yet. But

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there's definitely some apps do
put things in different fields,

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particularly if there's longer
messages. Some things get like,

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I think the podcast name
sometimes gets switched around,

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that could be in the export for
some reason. Or it could be the

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way some apps and I think pod
friend might send something

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weird sometimes. But I'll have
to love to look deeper. I just

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looked at the Excel sheet. And I
remember like, Oh, this isn't

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this isn't a wrong field.

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Like recently with it with this
new release? Yeah. Send me a

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screenshot because that the CSV
that sounds like if you have a

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field appearing in a different
place that sounds like it's

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something with the parsing of ML
to create this CSV job by hand.

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So it's possible that a
delimiters sneaking through and

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places not getting escaped
properly or some

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right okay thing, but I mean,
it's small thing. It's a very,

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actually, I'm opening it up now.
Let me just see if I can see it

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offhand.

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Yeah, if you can pinpoint it. I
can probably tell pretty quick

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what it is and fix it. Yeah.

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It's pod four. Okay, pod friends
interesting comics through

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blogger, pod friend and then of
course under the message you

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don't know how funny that is to
me under Message howdy Tina and

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Adam and then under pot. Oh,
that's what's changed instead of

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the podcast saying curry in the
keeper. It continues with the

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rest of his message greetings
from Eurotrash content. What I

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have to do is voice greetings
from Euro trash content. I wish

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you fast recovery from Corona if
you're bored, feel free to visit

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my blog all comic strip blog.com
Yo, and then under another

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episode it continues otherwise
just relax. Don't booze too

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much. That's only slobs like me
and Jean our identity

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genetically alcohol resistant.

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resistant.

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So and then it moves in the
pocket. Yeah, and then then it

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moves Korean the keeper and
Kerviel Cuf to different fields

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in the to the column one do to
other fields in the Excel. Okay,

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so it sounds like a great shot.
Okay, you know, dick pics are

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illegal now in the UK. So I got
to be careful what I send you.

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Yes. Yeah, I can. It's funny.
There must be some. I don't know

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how that can happen. You know, I
The funny thing about bugs is

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you never know how they happen
until you find them. Oh, there

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it is.

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I'll just send you the CSV file.
You can take a look at it

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yourself. Okay, yeah. Beautiful.
That's probably probably the

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easiest. Well, since we're
talking about messaging.

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Actually, before we bring in our
guests, I just wanted to mention

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one thing. I was listening to
pod land as I do. I was boosting

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pod land, I should say. I'm a
I'm a hate booster. Oh, no, not

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hate, but I'm always like, No,
this is wrong. Here's 300,003

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And three, three SATs that
proves that you're wrong.

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You can use that to the
podcasters doing that to their

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benefit. But

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remember, we monetize trolls
with podcasting. 2.0. This is

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our monitor. Yes, yeah. We
certainly monetized trolls. But

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there was one discussion, which
I just wanted to say something

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about and get your input on. And
I'd seen James is his proposal

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for a replacement for the owner
email tag in the RSS feed?

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Yes. I'd like to talk about that
as well. Yeah. Okay. I

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have two things to say about it.
One. Are you kidding me? I mean,

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yeah, really, I mean, this is, I
have had, I've had my name and

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my email address in my feed for
a for 15 years. And the only

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thing that's, that doesn't even
bother me is I get lots of

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publicists and PR people, I get
on their mailing list. And then

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these lists are created and
they're shared. And quite

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honestly, I look at I look at it
gets to it's usually podcasting

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related. And a lot of it is
like, Hey, I've went to his new

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service. here's this, here's
that. And now if I wanted to, I

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could put a different email
address in there. And so that,

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you know, we go to a different
box. If that was a big problem.

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It is by far the easiest way to
identify ownership. There's

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issues with idiots who lose
email access and but the same

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can be said for a token. And
also, I believe that the spec

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cannot be fucked with what is
the spec? That RSS 2.0?

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Yeah, but emails not but that
email is not a required tag,

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or this you don't have to put it
in you can not put anything in

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at all, then find that leave it
out, you get no spam. Yeah. And

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then you and you can't then you
can't certify or no claim your

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feed off shit.

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But as I vehemently disagree,
okay, in that, here's, here's

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why a bunch of reasons. Number
one legal, because if you have

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to validate an email, then you
have to store it in some way.

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And once you do that, then you
are then you have to start

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following things like GDPR and
that kind of thing with personal

220
00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:31,470
content. For legal reason. It's
much cleaner if you can just

221
00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:35,100
avoid ever dealing with an email
address and only deal with some

222
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:41,670
sort of app. You know,
handshake. I think that makes

223
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,500
that makes the the O auth. Or
app handshake validation process

224
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,030
a lot easier to deal with. For
people who don't want to have to

225
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:56,850
deal with regulation. That would
be the first one that justified

226
00:14:56,850 --> 00:15:05,490
the second one is that with This
could be combined, this, this

227
00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:10,080
can actually make, make it
easier to do other things. Also,

228
00:15:10,140 --> 00:15:14,280
if you have a pass through sort
of handshakes situation. One of

229
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,170
the things that we've been
talking about for a while is a

230
00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:20,280
sort of an openness subscription
mechanism where you can allow

231
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:26,520
people to claim to claim a
subscription to a feed. And I

232
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,290
was looking through pod pass.
Now, that's a spec that was

233
00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:37,260
designed. It came at a radio
public. And I'm not sure who the

234
00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:43,740
actual, like creator of it was.
But it was, let's see who who

235
00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:47,610
was it. I think Mike Kane never
recipt sent this to me

236
00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:52,650
originally. In because we were
talking about as Jake Shapiro

237
00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:55,470
who's now at Apple, but he was
at Radio public when he when

238
00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:59,460
this came out. This is a
protocol for how to do the same

239
00:15:59,460 --> 00:16:06,000
sort of handshake thing where
you can say, Okay, here's a

240
00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:08,910
here's a subscription only
podcast, there's this private

241
00:16:08,910 --> 00:16:11,670
podcast that I want to subscribe
to. I've actually already

242
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:14,280
subscribed to it. I subscribe to
it on this other on this other

243
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:14,850
service.

244
00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:22,680
Okay, stop. Yes, we can agree on
this very easily. It's just an

245
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,640
addition and not a replacement.
Yes. Okay. I'm good with that. I

246
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,530
love having my email address in
my feed. I love getting the

247
00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:36,180
problem here is not the spam.
The problem is a competitor

248
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:43,230
spams spam to accompany spam to
competitors. Clients targeted

249
00:16:43,230 --> 00:16:48,090
them specifically, which is now
considered, I guess, not

250
00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:53,550
gentlemanly. But that's that's
that's when it became a problem

251
00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:57,120
not for the 1000s of spams I've
received that no one ever

252
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,990
complained until it became a
problem because people are doing

253
00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:04,680
guerilla marketing with it.
Correct.

254
00:17:05,820 --> 00:17:08,910
From the standpoint Well, that's

255
00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:11,760
what the story, the story the
story started there. The story

256
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,420
started with, oh my god, I can't
believe a caste spammed all of

257
00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:18,570
bus sprouts customers and said
You should leave Buzzsprout

258
00:17:19,169 --> 00:17:23,129
Well, no, yes. No, that is that.
That's, that's that's the story

259
00:17:23,129 --> 00:17:26,399
though. That is the story.
That's what that's but but if

260
00:17:26,399 --> 00:17:31,799
you brought if you step back and
broaden it out to like, in not

261
00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:36,539
just that story, which was a
douche move to do. But if you

262
00:17:36,809 --> 00:17:39,899
step back and say, Okay, now
what is like you call it a

263
00:17:39,899 --> 00:17:43,919
problem? You said, it's not a
problem, unless, you know, until

264
00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:46,619
it becomes this guerilla
marketing thing? Well, depends

265
00:17:46,619 --> 00:17:50,069
on a defined problem, but can
also be dental issues. This

266
00:17:50,099 --> 00:17:50,969
check er, but

267
00:17:50,970 --> 00:17:53,730
it's subject I hadn't thought
about GDPR. But its objective.

268
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,800
What is it what a problem is,
I'm all for an additional

269
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,140
namespace tag with
authentication. I have no

270
00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:04,170
problem with that. I just had a
problem with the stories like

271
00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:06,720
everyone's whining about this.
And I love the guys at

272
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,720
Buzzsprout as much as I love
everybody else. But it's like,

273
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:15,270
okay, it really wasn't a huge
news item and issue until a cast

274
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:19,530
just just why don't we the new
story is attention attention, a

275
00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:24,120
cast or assholes. That's that's
the new story. That's it, and

276
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,850
then everything else is bliss.
So I just want to move it away

277
00:18:26,850 --> 00:18:32,790
from the email and say, why
don't we just create a better

278
00:18:32,790 --> 00:18:35,280
way to authenticate because
there's all these benefits?

279
00:18:35,610 --> 00:18:37,020
Maybe that's all I care about?

280
00:18:37,710 --> 00:18:41,160
Well, a cast said that they love
open RSS. That's what they've

281
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,750
been saying for a while. And now
we know what

282
00:18:43,530 --> 00:18:46,920
Yeah, but when I'm saying is
free email address, what I'm

283
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,180
saying is, is that every company
spams me and, you know, Spotify

284
00:18:51,180 --> 00:18:55,770
spans me and Google spans me and
Amazon spams me. And I don't

285
00:18:55,770 --> 00:19:00,090
mind because I might not have
found out about this wonderful

286
00:19:00,090 --> 00:19:04,260
opportunity. You know, it's
pretty damn targeted.

287
00:19:05,970 --> 00:19:07,320
What are you talking about in

288
00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:11,730
emails? Emails based upon what's
in my feed? You know, it's like,

289
00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:14,310
hey, podcasts are like and I
know exactly how they got my

290
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:14,880
email.

291
00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:19,170
I understand where you're coming
from because I understand where

292
00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:22,860
you're coming from the big the
big thing is that like, you

293
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:25,620
can't stop spam ever so just I
mean, there's a little bit of

294
00:19:25,620 --> 00:19:30,300
like, why even try involved here
and you if you get utility out

295
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:33,270
of it? Why? I mean, why are you
trying to fight you know, put

296
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:34,350
your finger in the dam,

297
00:19:34,410 --> 00:19:39,150
but, but also if you really want
to get my attention, send me a

298
00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:39,930
booster gram.

299
00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:41,910
No, yes, sir.

300
00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:43,650
That's what eight cash should be
doing.

301
00:19:45,090 --> 00:19:48,450
Open up breeze. This is the
booster speaking

302
00:19:48,450 --> 00:19:51,150
of the US, shall we bring our
guest into the boardroom right

303
00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:53,070
now? Because he's been sitting
patiently about on the

304
00:19:53,070 --> 00:19:55,560
sidelines. It's very late where
he lives. Oh, do

305
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,110
we have a guest? Yes, please, by
all means.

306
00:19:58,110 --> 00:20:00,180
We have a guest ladies and
gentlemen that we've tried To

307
00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:03,870
get him on before he's very
elusive. We're not sure if he's

308
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:07,410
a founder, the co founder, the
CEO, or he's actually all the

309
00:20:07,410 --> 00:20:10,770
dev guys on the GitHub as well.
Please say hello to Roy

310
00:20:10,770 --> 00:20:12,780
scheinfeld from breeze.

311
00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:14,790
Hey, hey, Dave.

312
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:20,340
Hey, Roy. I've been trying to
get you on forever, dude.

313
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,620
Come on. That's not fair guys,
you know?

314
00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:27,420
No, of course. But who said
we're fair? We're podcasters.

315
00:20:28,170 --> 00:20:37,800
Right? Israel, Israel based. So
breeze is unique amongst all of

316
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,060
the podcast apps, that and
podcasting 2.0 apps, I'll say,

317
00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:46,230
in the sense that y'all were a
wallet first, and then add in

318
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:50,190
podcasting later, which is very
different from what most of the

319
00:20:50,190 --> 00:20:55,290
podcasting, people know apps
have done. I guess, I want to

320
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,880
know, first of all, like, how,
just how has it gone? How has

321
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,870
the you committed a lot of deaf
time to this to put podcasting

322
00:21:03,870 --> 00:21:07,800
into the breeze wallet? And I
mean, have you gotten a decent

323
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:08,430
return on it?

324
00:21:08,490 --> 00:21:12,570
Hold on a second. Before you
before you answer that, Roy. I

325
00:21:12,570 --> 00:21:15,000
don't even remember how we
connected and how you started

326
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,910
doing it anymore. Do you mind
Dave? We just we just get the

327
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:19,500
because do you remember Dave?

328
00:21:19,770 --> 00:21:24,990
I see. I didn't know I think
someone connected us, Adam. And

329
00:21:24,990 --> 00:21:29,370
we got on the call. And I saw
the light and started walking on

330
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,520
that podcasting. 2.0 That's how
it happened.

331
00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:34,530
Okay, what if it was Paul ever
saying

332
00:21:34,530 --> 00:21:37,050
But was it Paul? It might have
been? I think it was Paul.

333
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,380
Maybe? Yeah, yeah, perhaps.
Okay.

334
00:21:40,770 --> 00:21:45,060
Sorry. Back to the question.
How's it going?

335
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:48,780
Hey, I was doing good. By the
way. I don't quote breezy today.

336
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:54,330
And I never called Brazil wallet
even when it was just a wallet.

337
00:21:56,370 --> 00:21:56,850
Yeah,

338
00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:59,490
it's a point of sale
application. Is that fair?

339
00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:03,270
No, not really, it. I didn't
call it the world even before we

340
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:04,140
had the point of sale.

341
00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:06,240
It's a portable lightning node.

342
00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:12,030
Technically, but for users, I
hate the word wallet in the

343
00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:16,260
context of lightning. I really
hate the term wallet. It's so

344
00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:21,240
technical. And so what I want to
do with breeze and what we think

345
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:24,480
we all in the lightning
ecosystem should do. We want to

346
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,320
get adoption, right and no one
calls Venmo a wallet, no one

347
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,160
calls PayPal the wallet. People
don't care about wallet, people

348
00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:38,220
want X pay for stuff extra. So I
see raised as a payment service.

349
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,570
So you can ask me why I added
podcasting 2.0 to our payment

350
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,520
service, but not worldwide.

351
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:48,870
Okay. All right. I understand
fully that that makes perfect

352
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:52,410
sense. Because if you now, you
understand why you add

353
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:54,810
podcasting to it, because
podcasting needs a payment

354
00:22:54,810 --> 00:22:57,210
service. And so you think that
was a perfect compliment.

355
00:22:57,869 --> 00:23:02,729
Exactly. Exactly. So, so breezy
is all about like creating peer

356
00:23:02,729 --> 00:23:07,499
to peer economy. And that's why
we started like the idea behind

357
00:23:07,499 --> 00:23:11,999
breweries was to help a Bitcoin
do this transformation from a

358
00:23:11,999 --> 00:23:15,719
store of value to a medium of
change. And what we tried to do

359
00:23:15,719 --> 00:23:21,359
with bridge is to explore the
ways people can interact in a

360
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,379
peer to peer manner with with
the lightning economy. So we

361
00:23:25,379 --> 00:23:29,849
started with like, a generic
send receive payments, where

362
00:23:29,849 --> 00:23:32,519
people can send payments and
receive payments from their

363
00:23:32,729 --> 00:23:36,659
friends. Then we added the point
of sale interface, because

364
00:23:36,929 --> 00:23:41,279
lightning enables everyone to
become a merchant without having

365
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:47,069
a bank account. And then after
our there our meeting with Adam,

366
00:23:47,069 --> 00:23:54,149
after Adam was so charming, and
we added we added first get

367
00:23:54,209 --> 00:23:57,869
podcasting 2.0 I think a
podcasting 2.0 is a is a is a is

368
00:23:57,869 --> 00:24:02,519
an amazing use case for the
lightning economy. And yeah, I

369
00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:02,669
was

370
00:24:02,670 --> 00:24:09,720
gonna ask you most want to be
payment services. Unlike yours,

371
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,850
which is the payment service.
They, they have a point of sale

372
00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:19,680
app. And in fact, a lot of I
think the the first applications

373
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,620
of any lightning app that I ever
saw was point of sale and

374
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:26,970
roulette. Is point of sale being
used a lot.

375
00:24:28,260 --> 00:24:36,330
A it's being used in not a lot.
I would say like a 10 to 20% of

376
00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:39,510
our users use breeze as the
point of sale, but there are the

377
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:45,960
most heavy users. So the people
that are relying on breeze as a

378
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,050
point of sale are our most
active users and our most

379
00:24:49,050 --> 00:24:54,120
demanding users. And I think a
lot of our traffic. Our traffic

380
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,720
is really associated with our
point of sale interface.

381
00:24:57,869 --> 00:25:02,069
I also see a lot of ln URL
activity in your groups?

382
00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:08,010
A Yeah, yeah. Because you're
like thinking it's a great

383
00:25:08,010 --> 00:25:12,300
addition to what a web Web
Services has to offer. And

384
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:16,440
people are using it just a
better user experience for

385
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,580
interacting with lightning.

386
00:25:18,270 --> 00:25:21,810
Do you use your breeze for to
listening to all your pods?

387
00:25:21,810 --> 00:25:22,740
Podcasts?

388
00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:25,740
connected to a secret?

389
00:25:25,770 --> 00:25:27,210
You don't listen to podcast? Do
you?

390
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,770
I don't know. I don't know.

391
00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:32,550
Your reader. Okay. Yeah. Well,

392
00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:36,450
you're also very good writer.
Ben always looking forward to a

393
00:25:36,450 --> 00:25:40,140
good ROI article, because I know
I can just sit down with coffee

394
00:25:40,140 --> 00:25:43,050
and read for, you know, 30
minutes because you have nice

395
00:25:43,050 --> 00:25:46,710
long well thought out. Well
thought out articles and one you

396
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:48,510
dropped yesterday is no
exception.

397
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,780
Yeah, the liquid lightning in
liquidity network?

398
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,190
Yeah, there's one thing in here
you said that, that I

399
00:25:56,190 --> 00:26:00,540
highlighted last night as I was
reading through it. And he said,

400
00:26:00,540 --> 00:26:03,270
When routing nodes optimize
their local liquidity

401
00:26:03,270 --> 00:26:06,180
allocation, everyone benefits
from a better network,

402
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,420
collective benefits result from
the decisions of self regarding

403
00:26:09,420 --> 00:26:12,960
individuals. And you were saying
this in sort of context of like

404
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,680
Adam Smith and the invisible
hand of the market. But this,

405
00:26:17,250 --> 00:26:21,090
this feels like the struggle
right now. And I want to get

406
00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:24,870
your thought on this. It feels
like there's this sort of the

407
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:28,950
Lightning Network has grown
really fast. And whenever you

408
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:33,270
have sort of hyper growth over a
short period of time, it really,

409
00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:37,770
people have to stop and breathe
and figure out what is going on.

410
00:26:37,890 --> 00:26:40,740
And I think what has happening
now from my sense, is that

411
00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:44,430
there's an sort of allocation,
liquidity allocation discovery

412
00:26:44,430 --> 00:26:47,160
process going on, where people
are trying to figure out what

413
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,640
their channels need to look
like, how much the to charge,

414
00:26:50,730 --> 00:26:52,980
all these kinds of things. Is
that is that kind of what you're

415
00:26:52,980 --> 00:26:53,730
trying to say there?

416
00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:57,720
Yes, yes, exactly. So you
You're, you're calling me out.

417
00:26:58,890 --> 00:27:04,290
Kind of the reason that I wrote
the article is really because I,

418
00:27:04,530 --> 00:27:09,660
I think we're seeing lately
there's, there's a growing

419
00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:14,880
number of percentage of failed
payments. And it's not because

420
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,950
nodes are not connected, nodes
are connected. But if there's a

421
00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:22,380
payment, and then if there's a
lightning payment, and the

422
00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:26,250
payment has failed, meaning
there's a route, but if the

423
00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:30,450
payment didn't went through the
route, it means liquidity was

424
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,130
mis allocated. And the reason
the reason I wrote this article

425
00:27:35,130 --> 00:27:39,570
is to show that we need to start
thinking about lightning as

426
00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:43,980
liquidity network. And people
need to start thinking about

427
00:27:44,010 --> 00:27:48,420
better ways to allocate their
liquidity and the how is the

428
00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:52,890
challenge. And also, that's
another reason for re writing

429
00:27:52,890 --> 00:27:57,300
this article, I want the I want
a more better tooling to be in

430
00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,410
place, and we don't have
splicing layer, a peer swap, and

431
00:28:01,410 --> 00:28:04,710
you can drill down to the tools
to the specific clip you guys

432
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:05,010
want.

433
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,160
I need to ask a question about
this, because I'm glad you

434
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,240
brought it up, Dave. So I'm kind
of in charge of the podcast

435
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:19,380
index node. So I set it up. So I
was early on and the idea we

436
00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:25,290
always had was, we need to make
these micro payments work. And,

437
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:30,930
and the majority of users who
come into podcasting 2.0 And you

438
00:28:30,930 --> 00:28:33,960
know, we're such early days,
there's so many pioneers and

439
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,060
very brave people who are buying
raspberry pies and setting up

440
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:43,830
nodes and loading Umbral onto
old laptops and, and people are

441
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:48,000
really, really excited. And the
biggest problem we of course,

442
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,450
hit when someone, you know, is
finally synced to the blockchain

443
00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:55,380
for 57 hours. And they're like,
Okay, I know I've opened a

444
00:28:55,380 --> 00:28:57,990
channel. And then of course,
they have no inbound liquidity.

445
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,520
And what podcast index has done
consistently is every Satoshi we

446
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:08,490
get, we save, and we turn into
liquidity. And this has been

447
00:29:08,490 --> 00:29:10,740
something Dave and I've been
talking about also in the board

448
00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:13,800
meeting for the past couple of
weeks. You know, basically

449
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,560
someone buys a, you know,
someone installs Umbral on on an

450
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,420
old laptop, and we're putting,
you know, $100 of liquidity to

451
00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:29,640
that person, which is, it turns
out is not very efficient. And

452
00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:33,210
the way I've been looking at
making it more and this your

453
00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:36,210
article is really good, and I
really appreciate it because

454
00:29:36,390 --> 00:29:42,270
what it told me was I'm on the
right path of making our kind of

455
00:29:42,270 --> 00:29:46,740
local issue work for us. Whereas
I've always been concerned

456
00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:50,730
about, you know, like, like the
connections more as you said

457
00:29:50,730 --> 00:29:55,050
more than the liquidity. And so
I made some fundamental changes

458
00:29:55,050 --> 00:30:01,650
as an experiment because we
route a lot But we were not

459
00:30:01,650 --> 00:30:06,150
making a lot of money. And I
want to make sure the

460
00:30:06,150 --> 00:30:10,650
microtransactions go through
cleanly and easily. So, you

461
00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:13,890
know, the, the interim changes
I've made is I have, because we

462
00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:17,280
also because we're connected, we
do have some big channels, you

463
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,170
know, people will be like, Oh,
we're just gonna, I'm gonna

464
00:30:19,170 --> 00:30:22,080
rebalance through these fuckers
over here. And then we have, you

465
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680
know, all of these, you know,
250, sach, 1000 chats at

466
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,290
channels getting completely
screwed, and people don't know

467
00:30:28,290 --> 00:30:31,920
what to do. Exactly. So. So what
I've done is I've taken away the

468
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,050
base fee of zero, to incentivize
the micro payments, and I've

469
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:45,090
upped the, the, the percentage
fee significantly, and that has

470
00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:48,480
that seen what I saw, and I'm
not sure it's only been a few

471
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,310
days, channels, almost autumn
automagically started to be

472
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:56,370
better balanced. I don't know
why, but it just seems like

473
00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:00,330
probably 30% balanced, better
ended by themselves. I didn't do

474
00:31:00,330 --> 00:31:00,810
anything.

475
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,250
And cosy, the channels don't get
depleted by the large

476
00:31:05,250 --> 00:31:06,090
transactions.

477
00:31:06,330 --> 00:31:13,140
Right. And, and we were
definitely making more in fees,

478
00:31:13,710 --> 00:31:16,080
which I, which I think is
important. And now I have to

479
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,310
kind of figure out and maybe you
can help, or we can just talk

480
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:25,710
about it. You know, do I need to
categorize types of users and

481
00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:30,570
their usage and calculate fees
based upon them individual

482
00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:34,260
channels? Or is that something I
should do across the board? I

483
00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:37,440
mean, it's, it's kind of scary,
because I'm at any given moment,

484
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,460
like, will this fee that I'm
changing here? Will it make a

485
00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:44,670
payment fail a payment of you
know, like 10 SATs? Will it

486
00:31:44,670 --> 00:31:45,600
screw that up?

487
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:54,630
Yeah, I think I think one of the
best practices practices is to

488
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:57,960
analyze the flows like what are
the flows that you want to

489
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,410
controls? What are the flows
that you are master must have in

490
00:32:01,410 --> 00:32:06,330
your, in your mind and in like,
set the right fees for the for

491
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,610
disclose? I think what you're
doing is exactly right. But I

492
00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:14,700
think let's let's take a step
back, like rebalancing is bad.

493
00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:19,740
No one should rebalance their
channels using the existing

494
00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:23,640
tools. That's that's the, that's
the honest truth. Because when

495
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,480
you rebalance your channels
inside the Lightning Network, it

496
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,550
means you're screwing up the
liquidity

497
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,270
of everybody have lots of
people. And but we get we get in

498
00:32:33,270 --> 00:32:36,150
that loop a lot. And it's, and
it's usually people with really

499
00:32:36,150 --> 00:32:38,640
good intentions, who all of a
sudden, they're sending, you

500
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,420
know, 5 million SATs through a
ring of fire, which I'm okay

501
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:45,360
with all of that. And I think
it's fun to do. But then one

502
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,260
thing screws up and then there's
all these little nodes of like,

503
00:32:49,290 --> 00:32:50,520
Whoa, where did it go?

504
00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:55,050
Exactly, exactly. And I'm doing
that as well, like with the

505
00:32:55,050 --> 00:32:59,790
breeze node. But that's because
of lack of better tools. Yeah, I

506
00:32:59,790 --> 00:33:03,450
think I think I'm pointing out
in the article, one of the tools

507
00:33:03,450 --> 00:33:07,470
that I think needs to be in
place is a pure swap. And appear

508
00:33:07,470 --> 00:33:13,020
swap is a way to rebalance your
channels by doing an off chain

509
00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:18,450
to an on chain swap. And then
you're not damaging the

510
00:33:18,450 --> 00:33:21,570
liquidity of other channels,
because there's no like circular

511
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,020
rebalancing going on. He's just,
you're controlling a specific

512
00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:28,230
channel, and you can say, I'm
moving liquidity to the other

513
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:31,200
side of the channel. How do I do
that by doing an on chain

514
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:31,890
transaction?

515
00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:35,400
Right now that that's doable?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but

516
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,260
that's doable? Really? Because?
And I'm not sure if I'm talking

517
00:33:40,260 --> 00:33:43,200
to people who may not understand
lightning a whole lot, either is

518
00:33:44,910 --> 00:33:47,820
if I'm not mistaken, then every
lightning every lightning

519
00:33:47,820 --> 00:33:53,070
transaction is a valid on chain
transaction also. So that on

520
00:33:53,070 --> 00:33:56,550
chain transaction can be you
can, you could theoretically, if

521
00:33:56,550 --> 00:34:01,470
the tooling and everything were
correct, you could bump that you

522
00:34:01,470 --> 00:34:05,910
could go go on chain, enough to
do that liquidity swap

523
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,940
temporarily, without having to
bring the whole channel down and

524
00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:09,870
back up. Is that right?

525
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,490
No, not really, it's true that
any lightning transaction is

526
00:34:14,490 --> 00:34:18,390
also a Bitcoin transaction. But
it also it only takes effect

527
00:34:18,390 --> 00:34:22,230
when you close the channel. If
you want to keep the channel

528
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:25,980
open, the way the way to do this
off chain to launch in

529
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:30,840
transaction is by doing a swap
that's that's one option and an

530
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,960
atomic swap. But in atomic swap,
you're not closing the channel

531
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,380
in or you're not using the same
lightning transaction as the on

532
00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:41,460
chain transaction. What you're
actually doing is sending a

533
00:34:41,460 --> 00:34:45,330
lightning transaction you you do
you're using a concept called

534
00:34:45,330 --> 00:34:48,330
the hold invoice meaning you are
not settling the lightning

535
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,890
transaction until the in another
different completely different

536
00:34:53,130 --> 00:34:57,030
on chain transaction is
executed. Once you know this on

537
00:34:57,030 --> 00:35:00,270
chain transaction is executed.
You settle the Lightning

538
00:35:00,270 --> 00:35:03,120
transaction. It's called in an
atomic swap.

539
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,390
Right? So, yeah, you could also
you could also just walk over to

540
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:09,570
someone's house, give them 50
bucks and say, shoot some SATs

541
00:35:09,570 --> 00:35:09,990
my way.

542
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,100
Exactly. Okay, exactly. But you
do that in a in a trustless

543
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,200
manner. Right? That's, that's
the thing with with, with an

544
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,430
atomic swap, by the way, Breeze
has a built in atomic swap

545
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:28,740
inside the app, when you receive
on chain transaction in breeze,

546
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,760
it's actually in an on chain to
off chain swap. And when you

547
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,750
send the funds outside the
wallet to Ben on change, but

548
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,310
also on chain address, we're
doing an off chain to the to on

549
00:35:41,310 --> 00:35:45,780
chain swap, and everything is
trustless. But you don't have to

550
00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:51,690
trust breeze in that, in that.
In that scenario, it's called

551
00:35:51,690 --> 00:35:58,560
the submarine swaps. And F every
node every node that the thing

552
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,630
is in the problem is that not
nodes don't expose the service,

553
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:07,170
meaning they don't have an
atomic swap service to expose to

554
00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:11,280
other nodes. So no one can
actually do that. And there's a

555
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:17,250
new new tool developed by block
stream called gear swap, it's

556
00:36:17,310 --> 00:36:21,390
basically an extension to your
node, where you can set up

557
00:36:21,390 --> 00:36:25,230
another service on top of your
lightning node where you you

558
00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:29,940
tell other nodes in the network,
you can swap with me and when

559
00:36:29,940 --> 00:36:33,900
you swap with them in you have a
direct channel with them, it

560
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,830
actually moved the liquidity to
the other side of the channel

561
00:36:37,950 --> 00:36:41,850
and now other channels are part
of this process is just taking

562
00:36:41,850 --> 00:36:46,110
this liquidity and sending this
liquidity on chain. So I think I

563
00:36:46,110 --> 00:36:52,650
think we need to like that is a
must. And another tool that is a

564
00:36:52,650 --> 00:36:56,760
must in order to optimize
liquidity is slicing. So slicing

565
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,770
is a way to take a channel and
change its capacity without

566
00:37:01,770 --> 00:37:08,370
closing it. So I can fix it or
or decrease liquidity in an

567
00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:13,560
existing channel without closing
it. And reallocating liquidity

568
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,100
elsewhere.

569
00:37:15,570 --> 00:37:18,750
So does that spin is that that
involves having a new address

570
00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:21,840
that right? On the entree side?

571
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:24,600
Yeah, yes.

572
00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:29,760
Yeah. Okay. So is this I guess,
from what I've seen of splicing,

573
00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:33,270
I think, see, Lightning is the
only one that has some version

574
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:35,490
of that at the moment. Is that
right? No

575
00:37:35,490 --> 00:37:40,140
one is version of splicing at
the moment. A I think Casey

576
00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:44,490
lightning our most active on
developing it, they have like a

577
00:37:44,490 --> 00:37:49,830
an initial version of it, they
see lightning develop dual

578
00:37:49,830 --> 00:37:53,490
funded channel. And dofollow
channel is kind of a basic

579
00:37:53,490 --> 00:37:59,040
version of spicing it but it
requires more development in

580
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,480
order to add lightning threads
by sync to see lightning, but I

581
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,150
think they will even hear it. I
think they will be the first

582
00:38:06,210 --> 00:38:06,810
limitation to

583
00:38:07,110 --> 00:38:10,890
this. I'm hearing a lot about
see lightning. And just so

584
00:38:10,890 --> 00:38:15,390
everybody knows. Lightning labs
doesn't control the Lightning

585
00:38:15,390 --> 00:38:19,410
Network. Although you'd think
they do. They think they do.

586
00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:24,870
Well, they have Lightning as a
handle in Twitter, right?

587
00:38:26,730 --> 00:38:32,340
Well, that says so it's good for
something. What are the main

588
00:38:32,340 --> 00:38:36,360
differences? See, lightning is a
different implementation. What

589
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,750
are the main differences? What
is it? I mean, I've seen it now

590
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:44,130
show up. I think the new version
of the raspy blitz has both ln D

591
00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:48,360
and C lightning in it. What are
the some of the main differences

592
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,910
or benefits of one over the
other? And how would that maybe

593
00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:52,080
affect podcasting?

594
00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:59,880
So that's a great question. So I
think the the there are three

595
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,900
four major limitations in
lightning and the main

596
00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:08,280
difference. There's a couple of
differences between them. Mainly

597
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,390
the programming language C,
lightning is written in C and

598
00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:20,490
lnd. Go a the asking
implementation is written in

599
00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:21,000
Scala,

600
00:39:21,299 --> 00:39:24,479
ACI And Q. That's the French
guys. Yes.

601
00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:31,650
And the end, there's a daily K
guys, a was for writing in a

602
00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:34,860
lender, a lightning lighter in
rust. So I think that's the

603
00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:42,150
major like implementations
today. The lightning, I think

604
00:39:42,180 --> 00:39:49,410
there are very, they're trying
to be very efficient. So from a

605
00:39:49,410 --> 00:39:54,450
performance standpoint, a rusty
Russell who's developing is part

606
00:39:54,450 --> 00:39:58,380
of the silicon development team.
He was doing the networking

607
00:39:58,380 --> 00:40:03,360
stuff back in the day on Linux.
He's very knowledgeable about

608
00:40:03,870 --> 00:40:08,400
performance, memory, all the
stuff they're very memory

609
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:14,670
efficient, ever very networking
efficient. And, and they're

610
00:40:14,670 --> 00:40:17,250
they're putting a lot of
emphasis on that. But they're

611
00:40:17,250 --> 00:40:25,350
also I think, a trying to be as
open and standard as much as

612
00:40:25,350 --> 00:40:30,060
possible. So they're always
they're always like a cutting

613
00:40:30,060 --> 00:40:33,300
edge when it comes to
specifications and

614
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:37,050
standardization, for example,
they're trying to push a new

615
00:40:37,050 --> 00:40:40,980
startup called Bolt 12. That
will, that will be in addition

616
00:40:40,980 --> 00:40:47,700
to both 11 where people will be
able to send payments to other

617
00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:51,450
without invoice without an
invoice. That's the basic use

618
00:40:51,450 --> 00:40:52,560
case of both well,

619
00:40:52,590 --> 00:40:56,250
except that it won't be key send
them won't rely upon the same

620
00:40:56,250 --> 00:40:58,560
type of luck to get through.

621
00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:07,950
Yes, exactly. So yeah, so a case
and by the way, the l&d was the

622
00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:10,980
first to implement, he said, and
I'm glad they did, because they

623
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:17,340
unlocked all the use cases of
podcasting. 2.0 is just one

624
00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:25,320
example. But other use cases as
well. A now there's an and they

625
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,800
replaced keys and add the
decrease and with the ANP

626
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,700
implementation, but it didn't
try to push it as part of the

627
00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:36,930
lightning standard. Anything
anything that will be successful

628
00:41:36,930 --> 00:41:41,730
and well adopted, as there has
to be inspiration has to be in

629
00:41:41,730 --> 00:41:45,900
the standard thing has to be in
the spec and see lightning are

630
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:49,740
trying to push it. Both will see
lightning are the only one to

631
00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:54,840
implement dual funded channels.
See, Lightning has issues, I

632
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,580
think, luckily, there's a reason
most of the nodes are running

633
00:41:59,610 --> 00:42:03,420
lnd. And I think one of the main
constraints in see lightning was

634
00:42:03,420 --> 00:42:06,720
the fact that they didn't
support multiple channels per

635
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:13,650
peer, meaning you can only open
one channel per peer. So so

636
00:42:13,650 --> 00:42:18,180
there's a reason and most of the
nodes are running. l&d. It's not

637
00:42:18,180 --> 00:42:21,810
just documentation, not just
tooling, but it's also like, the

638
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:25,740
weird constraints that they see
lightning had. I think they're

639
00:42:25,740 --> 00:42:27,420
gonna prove that. I don't

640
00:42:28,500 --> 00:42:31,950
know. But breezes breeze is
based on lnd. Right?

641
00:42:32,490 --> 00:42:37,950
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Bri is
based on l&d. The reason bridges

642
00:42:37,950 --> 00:42:42,090
is based on melodies, because
trees runs a node inside of your

643
00:42:42,090 --> 00:42:46,350
mobile device. And in the C
lightning implementation. I

644
00:42:46,350 --> 00:42:49,650
don't know if you know that you
probably know that, that. It's

645
00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:55,110
like the Unix Linux architecture
of the old running processes,

646
00:42:55,140 --> 00:43:00,000
like a pass process. Yeah. So
one process spawns another

647
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,780
process, and you don't have
these multi process capabilities

648
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:09,570
in mobile. So we actually
couldn't use C lightning as part

649
00:43:09,570 --> 00:43:16,500
of our stack, because we had to
turn a l&d into a library. So we

650
00:43:16,620 --> 00:43:21,510
it was possible to take the lnd
limitation and create a library

651
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:24,510
out of it. But it was impossible
to do that for see lightning

652
00:43:24,510 --> 00:43:28,080
because of this multi process
architecture that they use.

653
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:31,230
It's really quite amazing what
Brees is doing. I mean, you

654
00:43:31,230 --> 00:43:36,180
know, aside from the from like a
key Send Receive, which is not

655
00:43:36,180 --> 00:43:39,720
possible on mobile for multiple
reasons. I mean, it really is

656
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,660
fun to just drop down the
command line. Sometimes it's

657
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:45,180
like, I check routes and
everything a breeze really

658
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:49,350
becomes my toolbox. And just to
see if everything and it feels

659
00:43:49,350 --> 00:43:52,710
really good to have that kind of
access to to your full node, but

660
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:56,640
it is kind of freakish. Now
that's not your general use

661
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,180
case. I'm sure him is like, Hey,
I can't wait to do a route check

662
00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:05,370
in my breeze. That's something
that that's without a doubt

663
00:44:05,370 --> 00:44:09,660
there's it's kind of fun, not
fun. It's interesting to watch.

664
00:44:09,660 --> 00:44:14,430
You know, we resolve ideas and
thoughts and disputes all in a

665
00:44:14,430 --> 00:44:17,730
Mastadon setting. I'm not I
think I don't know exactly how

666
00:44:17,730 --> 00:44:20,250
this goes in the in the
lightning development world. But

667
00:44:20,250 --> 00:44:23,190
there's lots of rumblings and
there's people's getting you

668
00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:25,770
getting kind of nasty with each
other and a little bit of a

669
00:44:25,770 --> 00:44:30,990
flame flame war, I guess what?
So what are the real problems?

670
00:44:30,990 --> 00:44:34,140
And are they problems we need to
be thinking of is there are

671
00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:37,200
there solutions that are going
to get better for for what we're

672
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,440
trying to do with with streaming
with value for value streaming

673
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,140
payments. I'm saying that
specifically because I see this

674
00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:48,570
working for music and for books
and many, many other things. And

675
00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:52,170
yeah, and I guess we should
probably move that into the

676
00:44:52,170 --> 00:44:54,510
realm of messaging because that
seems to be one of the big

677
00:44:54,510 --> 00:44:55,350
disputes.

678
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,630
Yes. So I think you touched on a
very important point I think

679
00:45:00,810 --> 00:45:04,830
they kind of the externalization
process. When we started, by the

680
00:45:04,830 --> 00:45:13,740
way, we started in mid 2018.
There was a standard, a standard

681
00:45:13,740 --> 00:45:17,700
process, the whole process in
place, it's still in place, but

682
00:45:18,030 --> 00:45:23,760
it moved very quickly, very
efficiently in 2018, and in

683
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:32,460
2019. And the process kind of
altered in 2020, late 2020, more

684
00:45:32,940 --> 00:45:38,730
2021. And still, it's still it's
slow moving. And can you guess

685
00:45:38,730 --> 00:45:41,790
the reason for that? endemic?

686
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:47,310
It's probably not pandemic, no,
no, you don't get you don't get

687
00:45:47,310 --> 00:45:49,080
to use COVID as an excuse.

688
00:45:49,290 --> 00:45:54,150
I was never really Yes. And I'll
tell you why. I think because

689
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:57,480
people are not being able to
meet face to face. Yeah. And

690
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:04,200
hash their issues, face to face.
I think it creates an issue. And

691
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,000
I think all the stuff that we're
seeing now are is is a result of

692
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,010
miscommunication that and then
there's like kind of a war. All

693
00:46:14,010 --> 00:46:18,390
right now in the last couple of
days in Twitter. There wasn't an

694
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:23,580
email from Alex postwar from l&d
and and the rusty and the

695
00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:29,520
Rusty's is calling out to Alex
and l&d and the app sync folks

696
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:36,690
are also joined the party we'd
calling out l&d And I think I

697
00:46:36,690 --> 00:46:41,040
think I know all the teams that
personally, and I think everyone

698
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,580
wants the best for lightning,
maybe they have different

699
00:46:44,580 --> 00:46:47,490
constraints and different
structures to execute on that.

700
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:52,530
But I think we're talking about
good people with a lot of

701
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,290
motivation to contribute and,
and, and have an open standard

702
00:46:58,290 --> 00:47:04,350
network. And I think that the
reason that it isn't really a

703
00:47:04,890 --> 00:47:09,450
doesn't really hasn't been
working lately is because people

704
00:47:09,450 --> 00:47:12,870
are not just not communicating,
not working with each other.

705
00:47:13,230 --> 00:47:15,570
yelling at each other on
Twitter. That's pretty much the

706
00:47:15,570 --> 00:47:16,740
bottom of the barrel.

707
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,140
Hmm, yeah. But maybe it's a good
thing. But the only way is up

708
00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:22,740
from here.

709
00:47:22,890 --> 00:47:27,180
So what what is what is the core
problem? I mean, so we because

710
00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:29,490
well, the spec is moving
forward, all 12.

711
00:47:30,330 --> 00:47:34,650
Lightning, and lightning Labs is
not embracing both 12 as fast as

712
00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:35,460
I think everybody wants.

713
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,820
Okay, yeah. And by the way, if
you look at the Alex's email,

714
00:47:41,820 --> 00:47:45,300
Alex basically said, like, maybe
we don't need the

715
00:47:45,330 --> 00:47:49,950
standardization, and refreezing.
But maybe we don't need

716
00:47:49,950 --> 00:47:53,520
socialization process, because
we can pull, push out features

717
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,130
that we want to push and focus
on the things we want to push

718
00:47:56,130 --> 00:48:02,040
because we own and we like
users, right? 9090 plus percent

719
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,890
of the nodes are running on lnd.
So why do we care?

720
00:48:07,530 --> 00:48:08,790
Right, right, right, right.

721
00:48:09,810 --> 00:48:13,050
Again, I'm rephrasing I don't
remember the exact words, but I

722
00:48:13,050 --> 00:48:15,900
think that's why people get
upset. But if you continue to

723
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:21,360
read Alex's email, he raises in
legitimate concerns around a

724
00:48:21,390 --> 00:48:24,090
around both wealth. And I think
that goes back to what you had

725
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:28,800
asked the Adam regarding
messaging, because part of the

726
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,540
bowl will have specification, we
need an ability to communicate

727
00:48:33,570 --> 00:48:39,510
between peers. And so there are
new types of messaging where

728
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:42,810
people can send the notes can
send other notes and messages.

729
00:48:43,410 --> 00:48:46,710
And Alex is worried. And
frankly, I'm worried as well,

730
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:51,540
that that it these messages will
be used as a generic messaging

731
00:48:51,570 --> 00:48:52,350
infrastructure.

732
00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:57,540
Yeah, I think a lot of this goes
to me, this argument in the

733
00:48:57,540 --> 00:49:01,230
lightning world, or this debate
in the lightning world is very

734
00:49:01,230 --> 00:49:05,460
similar to the to the debate
within Bitcoin Core about

735
00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:09,000
whether or not to increase block
size, that they feel very

736
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:14,580
similar to me, because there
there is, there's a legitimate

737
00:49:14,580 --> 00:49:19,920
concern about you about
lightning, because people trying

738
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,640
to stuff things into lightning
messaging that really should not

739
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,290
be there. And because as soon as
you open up a generic channel

740
00:49:28,290 --> 00:49:32,070
for doing things like binary
transfers over Lightning

741
00:49:32,250 --> 00:49:35,940
Network, you mean hey, we're

742
00:49:35,940 --> 00:49:39,180
gonna do podcasting over
Lightning Network? Yeah. Can we

743
00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:40,260
do an attachment?

744
00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:43,380
Everybody the reason for that?
becomes

745
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:48,870
COVID Davies, because I think no
one wants that, by the way,

746
00:49:48,930 --> 00:49:54,360
like, and there's no single
implementation that wants to use

747
00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:58,770
a lightning is a generic
messaging platform, or a generic

748
00:49:58,770 --> 00:50:03,120
messaging infrastructure. Not
not see lightning, not the ASIC

749
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,980
not l&d and not educate, no one
wants that there needs to be a

750
00:50:08,010 --> 00:50:11,100
to some degree messaging
capabilities in order to enable

751
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:16,770
payment features. So we need to
execute that very carefully. And

752
00:50:16,770 --> 00:50:22,290
we need to add that a to the, to
the standard and to the

753
00:50:22,290 --> 00:50:27,990
specification. But we need to
make sure this tools in this new

754
00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:31,560
utilities aren't being abused. A

755
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:37,470
is isn't. Isn't booster gramming
by itself kind of abusing that

756
00:50:37,470 --> 00:50:37,770
then?

757
00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:40,860
No, I don't think so. I think
booster grams is a great

758
00:50:40,860 --> 00:50:45,960
addition to lightning because it
uses something called TLV. Until

759
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,880
V is is an extension to a
payment, you can't boost without

760
00:50:50,910 --> 00:50:56,970
payment. Right? Correct. So I
think he can utilize the core.

761
00:50:57,900 --> 00:51:01,770
I'm liking the I'm reading. I'm
reading the the email now by the

762
00:51:01,770 --> 00:51:04,950
way, it's badass to post
somebody's email in a VI

763
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:08,100
session. That with the numbers
on the side. That's pretty cool.

764
00:51:08,850 --> 00:51:12,810
That's that's nerdy right there.
But I guess the some of the

765
00:51:12,810 --> 00:51:18,780
dispute is about no cost peer to
peer messaging.

766
00:51:20,220 --> 00:51:21,090
Yeah,

767
00:51:21,180 --> 00:51:23,580
again, I don't think there's a
To be honest, I don't think

768
00:51:23,580 --> 00:51:28,230
there's a real dispute because
no one wants a liking to be used

769
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:31,410
as a generic messaging
infrastructure. And no one wants

770
00:51:31,410 --> 00:51:33,120
lightning to become the new Can
I just

771
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,180
say something Roy, every single
developer who has been at

772
00:51:36,180 --> 00:51:40,380
podcasting 2.0, who has seen
this work, and particularly with

773
00:51:40,380 --> 00:51:43,920
heli pad, the first thing they
all want to do is create a reply

774
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,820
button. And that's my intuition,
too. It's like, oh, I want to

775
00:51:47,820 --> 00:51:49,440
reply to these messages.

776
00:51:49,799 --> 00:51:53,429
Why not? But you can if you pay
for them. I'm fine for you that

777
00:51:53,459 --> 00:51:57,959
because it means that the
routing nodes have incentives.

778
00:51:59,069 --> 00:52:00,719
Okay, people need to understand
don't

779
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,170
we want that we want people I
want people to hit boost me, I

780
00:52:04,170 --> 00:52:07,590
want you to tell me that I suck
and send me 10,000 SATs. That's

781
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:08,850
that's the whole point.

782
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:12,750
Exactly. Exactly. So that's the
reason I like booster gram. And

783
00:52:12,750 --> 00:52:15,990
by the way we what we did in
braces to put was to REM is like

784
00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:18,990
the default. The default boost a

785
00:52:18,990 --> 00:52:23,100
very confused, very confusing,
Mr. Roy. Okay, do you know how

786
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:26,520
many times I go to the breeze
app and I hold down the button

787
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:32,250
and it goes because I'm thinking
a message it's gonna pop up. You

788
00:52:32,250 --> 00:52:35,520
could you bro, you broke my UX
brother. I'm like, oh my god, I

789
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,250
just boosted 8000 SATs in one
go.

790
00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:43,410
That happens with early adopters
that Oh

791
00:52:43,410 --> 00:52:47,490
my God. Every other app that
does it exactly the opposite

792
00:52:47,490 --> 00:52:47,940
way.

793
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,470
I wouldn't worry too much about
it because they eventually they

794
00:52:55,470 --> 00:52:56,490
do what we do at the

795
00:52:56,490 --> 00:53:01,050
end. Oh, man, did you hear that
massage? Shit. Dave, that was

796
00:53:01,050 --> 00:53:05,100
that was That was harsh man. Can
you do about the vont?

797
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,420
I think with with with the apps
like caliper, I think a booster

798
00:53:09,420 --> 00:53:13,380
gram is really the way to
communicate between between

799
00:53:13,380 --> 00:53:17,940
listeners and podcasters. And I
think this feature need to be

800
00:53:17,940 --> 00:53:21,300
exposed to that out that was our
way to expose it.

801
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,750
I love that you put it in there.
Obviously I'm just I'm just

802
00:53:24,780 --> 00:53:25,890
giving you a hard time.

803
00:53:26,279 --> 00:53:30,179
What? Tell me this though, tell
me. One question I have is what?

804
00:53:30,389 --> 00:53:34,769
Why? Why did you limit or decide
to limit the booster gram length

805
00:53:34,769 --> 00:53:37,889
to 90 characters? Or was that
just a just pick off the top of

806
00:53:37,889 --> 00:53:39,539
your head? Or what was the
thinking there?

807
00:53:40,290 --> 00:53:46,350
Is the thinking is again it goes
back to are we using Lightning

808
00:53:46,350 --> 00:53:49,740
as the as the messaging
platform. I don't want to spam

809
00:53:49,740 --> 00:53:55,680
the network too much with too
much data. So so I don't want to

810
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:01,080
like DDoS attacks and I want to
protect a I wanted to protect

811
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:08,070
the day, the infrastructure and
the platform. Is that what's

812
00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:11,640
your what's the what's the
what's the message? Like? I

813
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:15,270
listened to the bill at the
beginning to the booster gram

814
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:19,830
that Adam received, I guess
maybe we need to increase the

815
00:54:19,830 --> 00:54:20,400
wish to grow.

816
00:54:20,460 --> 00:54:23,850
It's a little short. It's a
little short. And yes, yeah.

817
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,930
What what has seen what I've
seen a lot is is that the

818
00:54:27,930 --> 00:54:33,300
standard seems to be roughly
about the size of a of a Twitter

819
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:37,740
to Mastadon message like between
250 to 500 characters roughly

820
00:54:37,770 --> 00:54:43,350
okay. 250 is 250 is fine for me,
honestly, because on the

821
00:54:43,350 --> 00:54:47,520
receiving end of this stuff, if
you give you give people a

822
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,200
bucket, they're going to fill it
up. And I I agree with you in

823
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,790
the spirit. The spirit of a
booster gram is short and I

824
00:54:56,790 --> 00:55:00,990
really love keeping that short
but I run now There's something

825
00:55:00,990 --> 00:55:03,840
to be said for what you're doing
there because I have literally

826
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:09,090
boost the grant twice to get my
message in. So this not saying

827
00:55:09,090 --> 00:55:12,450
that I'm against the idea of
limiting that, because it does

828
00:55:12,450 --> 00:55:14,310
kind of force you into doing it
again.

829
00:55:15,870 --> 00:55:20,400
So we did 90 characters, there's
no question like, Hey, I'm sure

830
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:26,250
that we can handle it. And I'm
not worried about it with 256.

831
00:55:26,250 --> 00:55:30,960
Or I don't know how many
characters and I would go and

832
00:55:30,990 --> 00:55:36,150
check with the with l&d and
check with, see lightning, what

833
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:40,350
do they think like if that's a
good number to use? Because at

834
00:55:40,350 --> 00:55:43,260
the end of the day, keep in
mind, there is additional

835
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:47,700
information that we send as part
of this payment. It's not just

836
00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:51,780
the booster grant, right. It's
also the timestamp, the podcast,

837
00:55:51,810 --> 00:55:54,090
the name, the podcasting
episode, like

838
00:55:55,170 --> 00:55:58,350
comic comics, or job data,
comics or Blogger just sends

839
00:55:58,350 --> 00:56:00,900
entire books with his booster
grams, and it screws up

840
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:01,440
everything.

841
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:05,490
It was the list of times it was

842
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,400
Yeah, but these these are really
quality problems to have. And

843
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,790
I'm kind of enjoying I'm not I'm
very much enjoying the

844
00:56:11,790 --> 00:56:16,530
conversation. And it was there
was a second part to John

845
00:56:16,530 --> 00:56:20,820
Spurlock was also on pod land.
And talking about because you

846
00:56:20,820 --> 00:56:25,620
know, Roy, we're doing cross app
comments. And there was actually

847
00:56:26,070 --> 00:56:28,950
a remark made, they said, well,
it's not really a good thing. We

848
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:31,320
already have messaging with
booster grams. And you know,

849
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,440
comments may be confusing. And I
thought to myself, no, it's two

850
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:40,320
separate things. It's really,
but but I can also see a use

851
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,580
case where, like a super chat on
YouTube booster gram show up in

852
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:49,230
the chat. You know, or maybe
there's a way for you, for us to

853
00:56:49,230 --> 00:56:54,000
say, okay, um, maybe, I don't
know, maybe you could say, oh,

854
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,340
you have to you have to pay to
post here, you know, kind of

855
00:56:56,340 --> 00:57:00,600
like the the Sphinx model, which
I don't know if that's

856
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,070
technically possible, but
there's definitely integrations

857
00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:14,070
there, although it's two
separate things. Oh. Yeah. No.

858
00:57:14,490 --> 00:57:16,950
Well, I was wondering what you
are, if you have any thoughts on

859
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:17,160
it?

860
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,240
Oh, me? No. Well, no, I think
they're, I think they're two

861
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,960
separate things. Like, I think
like, if I don't know, Roy, if

862
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,030
you saw, he probably didn't we
we did like a live test. We did

863
00:57:30,030 --> 00:57:30,660
a test. Yeah,

864
00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:33,210
I saw. I'm following them on
Twitter. So.

865
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:40,440
Okay. Yeah. And so we we did
that live last Sunday. And what

866
00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:44,070
what Sir Spencer had done, and I
don't think it was him. I think

867
00:57:44,070 --> 00:57:51,930
it was a C dubs or something
like that. They had created a, a

868
00:57:51,930 --> 00:57:57,870
bot to except to watch the gRPC
stream coming out of lnd. And

869
00:57:57,870 --> 00:58:03,210
then as those boosts came into
the node, people would boost to

870
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,980
the live stream through a
podcast app. And then as that

871
00:58:08,010 --> 00:58:12,210
those boosts came in, it would
translate them into an IRC chat.

872
00:58:12,540 --> 00:58:14,280
Message as sexy as hell.

873
00:58:16,020 --> 00:58:19,740
So you end up with what
literally it looks exactly like

874
00:58:19,740 --> 00:58:23,160
a YouTube Super Chat, bot.

875
00:58:23,790 --> 00:58:26,580
Little bot with little asterix,
like I'm a bot and look at the

876
00:58:26,580 --> 00:58:28,200
here's the message is beautiful.

877
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,750
Yeah. And to me, that's fun. The
use case like that is

878
00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:33,690
fundamentally different than
something like a cross app

879
00:58:33,690 --> 00:58:36,570
comment, which is meant to be
sort of permanent, whereas the

880
00:58:36,570 --> 00:58:39,630
other things are or where the
live chat is, like more

881
00:58:39,630 --> 00:58:40,230
ephemeral,

882
00:58:40,290 --> 00:58:42,720
but just shooting from the just
shooting from the hip here, just

883
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,190
as a nutty idea, since we're
looking at Pew pew. Since we're

884
00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:50,850
looking at activity pub. Oh, no,
we're not I'm sorry. We are

885
00:58:50,850 --> 00:58:54,810
actively using activity pub for
the cross app comments. Is there

886
00:58:54,810 --> 00:59:01,260
a way to tie in paint like a
payment portion to that so it

887
00:59:01,260 --> 00:59:05,250
may be totally unnecessary, but
I'm just I always enjoyed the

888
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:12,180
the Sphinx idea of it cost you
10 sets to post a message. Is

889
00:59:12,180 --> 00:59:16,620
there a way to tie in payments
into activity pub? Just and

890
00:59:16,620 --> 00:59:18,600
that's more of a lightning
question, I guess, than a

891
00:59:18,780 --> 00:59:20,460
podcasting. 2.0 question.

892
00:59:22,170 --> 00:59:24,930
Yeah, I mean, anything with a
gateway? You know, you just have

893
00:59:24,930 --> 00:59:29,880
to have some sort of gateway to
go in and out. And that's,

894
00:59:29,940 --> 00:59:34,470
that's really where, you know,
this is sort of let me let me

895
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:38,490
back into this because I want I
do have a question to Roy that I

896
00:59:38,490 --> 00:59:42,600
think, is kind of has kind of
related to this, and it's

897
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,180
something that's been, you know,
we've been trying to figure out

898
00:59:45,180 --> 00:59:49,650
and I say what I mean by we is
various people I've talked to in

899
00:59:49,650 --> 00:59:55,410
the podcasting world. You know,
we've been trying to in this

900
00:59:55,410 --> 00:59:58,680
just kind of keeps coming up,
trying to figure out a way to

901
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:06,600
make all this stuff work where
it's legal, you know, legal, and

902
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:10,740
all the custodian people want
to, you're dealing with funds

903
01:00:10,740 --> 01:00:13,740
here you're dealing with with
with financial things. And so

904
01:00:14,220 --> 01:00:18,450
like, like braze can't accept
keys and payments. So what we've

905
01:00:18,450 --> 01:00:20,250
been left with is things like ln
pay.

906
01:00:20,970 --> 01:00:24,840
And custodial versus non
custodial. Yeah, the custodial

907
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,560
versus non custodian. So like,
I'm less interested in that sort

908
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,870
of idea, the custodial, non
custodial, then just just

909
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:37,140
there's more, more direct
question, which is, Can all of

910
01:00:37,140 --> 01:00:42,840
these things be done long term
in a way that doesn't require

911
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:48,510
like custodial liquidity. And
what I mean is, like we, for

912
01:00:48,510 --> 01:00:52,260
instance, what Adam described
earlier, with the podcast index

913
01:00:52,260 --> 01:00:56,400
node is in order a podcaster,
comes online with an Umbral or a

914
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,660
recipe Blitz, and we open up
100,000 side channel to them to

915
01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:04,230
give them some inbound
liquidity. And that's fine,

916
01:01:04,620 --> 01:01:09,360
except that it's is not
efficient use of liquidity, and

917
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:16,260
that you end up with a single
node that has 150 channels. But,

918
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,560
you know, the only way I can
imagine to get around that is

919
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,960
through custodial level
liquidity where you have

920
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,940
something like Ellen pay,

921
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,150
which has its own problems.
During the live, we saw that it

922
01:01:27,150 --> 01:01:29,940
had its own issues of overload.

923
01:01:30,779 --> 01:01:34,019
Yeah. So you bet you need some
central thing there that has,

924
01:01:34,019 --> 01:01:37,229
you know, 10 million sets of
liquidity. So I think we're

925
01:01:37,229 --> 01:01:37,679
talking to

926
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,710
the right guy. I think the
lightning service providers is

927
01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:42,840
his job, although I don't know
what he does.

928
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,160
I don't I don't do anything.
Really?

929
01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:50,880
I know. I still don't know what
you do you just on the telegram

930
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,340
all day, as far as I'm
concerned, you may not even work

931
01:01:53,340 --> 01:01:56,010
for Brees would just be their PR
guy.

932
01:01:57,510 --> 01:02:06,030
Hey. So yeah, that's I think
you're getting to the heart of

933
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,770
the issues with lightning today.
By the way, that's the reason I

934
01:02:10,770 --> 01:02:14,100
started breeze, I started breeze
because I believe we can create

935
01:02:14,100 --> 01:02:17,940
a noncustodial user experience
that is on par with what

936
01:02:17,940 --> 01:02:25,710
custodial solution has to offer.
A so. So what I think needs to

937
01:02:25,710 --> 01:02:30,660
happen is this notion of an LSP,
enlightening service provider,

938
01:02:30,810 --> 01:02:35,040
kind of the entity that connects
and user to network, we need

939
01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:41,730
more or less these. And we need
we need competition of LSPs that

940
01:02:41,730 --> 01:02:45,510
will bring the prices down. But
for me, let's talk about user

941
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:49,950
experience. Okay, why why when
when you use breeze, what's

942
01:02:50,490 --> 01:02:54,360
what's the main difference
between a breeze and a custodial

943
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,690
wallet? The main difference and
the main caveat is you can't

944
01:02:57,690 --> 01:03:02,910
receive an offline payment using
breeze. And and that's because

945
01:03:02,910 --> 01:03:08,610
it mobile nodes are mostly
offline. That's that's the

946
01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:11,130
that's the that's the real
winner. Can

947
01:03:11,130 --> 01:03:13,260
you explain what you mean by an
offline payment?

948
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:18,630
Yeah, so So breeze runs in Node
A spark. So let's let's talk

949
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:22,500
about custodial solutions. Okay,
yeah, please, what, when you

950
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:28,320
have a wallet like a wallet of
Satoshi, or let's say, a blue

951
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:32,820
wallet, and still there, they're
switching to LD cake. But let's

952
01:03:32,820 --> 01:03:35,820
talk about their existing
offering. It's a it's a

953
01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:40,320
custodial lightning solution,
meaning they use one node or

954
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,640
multiple nodes, but they use
their own nodes in order in

955
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:49,950
order to manage the funds and
users are just entry in the in a

956
01:03:49,950 --> 01:03:54,540
database somewhere right? So
they they know how to split the

957
01:03:54,540 --> 01:03:58,950
funds between different users
based on their own accounting

958
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,640
and they can tap into your funds
they can steal your funds they

959
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:08,910
can do with the with your funds,
whatever they like a so you're

960
01:04:08,940 --> 01:04:13,890
trusting them to manage your
friends and they have total

961
01:04:13,890 --> 01:04:18,090
control of your funds. And this
is for me that that's not

962
01:04:18,090 --> 01:04:19,680
Bitcoin or or worse

963
01:04:19,710 --> 01:04:23,430
or worse, just explain it even
even better. You might have

964
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:26,880
donated $50 to some protests
that might have involved some

965
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:32,310
truckers and the Government of
Canada goes and says hey, we

966
01:04:32,310 --> 01:04:35,040
don't want that shit happening.
And they go straight to your

967
01:04:35,250 --> 01:04:39,300
your your blue wallet, guys or
whatever and they say cut them

968
01:04:39,300 --> 01:04:39,900
all off.

969
01:04:42,750 --> 01:04:44,490
Of course and then they can
seize the funds

970
01:04:44,580 --> 01:04:47,280
right which is which is a real
thing is my point is that's

971
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,140
happening right now in our
world.

972
01:04:50,010 --> 01:04:52,590
That's happening on exchanges
and that will happen

973
01:04:52,590 --> 01:04:56,520
noncustodial wallet, by the way.
It's wrong to call custodial

974
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,860
wallets, wallets, it's more
accounts when you talk

975
01:04:58,890 --> 01:05:03,210
about it. So login, you got to
log in. Exactly.

976
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,350
So So whenever you have an
account, and the your funds in

977
01:05:07,350 --> 01:05:11,130
the account can be seized, I am,
I'm not even talking about the

978
01:05:11,130 --> 01:05:16,230
privacy and right and this kind
of issues, just like the

979
01:05:16,260 --> 01:05:20,580
custodial party, the having
control over your funds. So what

980
01:05:20,580 --> 01:05:26,880
I, what I wish we thought we
sought out to do in breeze is to

981
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,840
provide a noncustodial solution
that will be on par in terms of

982
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:38,670
user experience in terms of when
it comes to lightning payments.

983
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:44,430
So in bridge right now, when you
receive funds, we actually open

984
01:05:44,430 --> 01:05:49,830
the channel on the fly to end
users. And we use the funds that

985
01:05:49,830 --> 01:05:55,410
we receive in order to fund this
channel. So unlike what you guys

986
01:05:55,410 --> 01:05:59,070
are doing with podcasting 2.0 We
thought we don't just give we

987
01:05:59,070 --> 01:06:04,950
provide an additional amount of
inbound liquidity. But the the

988
01:06:04,980 --> 01:06:09,780
most of the liquidity actually
comes from our users. And we're

989
01:06:09,780 --> 01:06:13,470
using zero comms channels in
order to provide them with the

990
01:06:13,470 --> 01:06:18,330
ability to spend the funds
immediately after receiving

991
01:06:18,330 --> 01:06:21,240
right. I think that's the main
difference. So liquidity

992
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:27,960
actually, in our use case comes
from a user's app. And Phoenix

993
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,840
and moon are doing the same
thing. And I think,

994
01:06:31,110 --> 01:06:33,930
yeah, I was gonna say, so the
kind of the liquidity providers

995
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:41,430
version 1.0 was like, the
services where you can, you

996
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:44,550
know, pay 10%, or whatever, and
you get a channel for a month,

997
01:06:44,610 --> 01:06:48,150
that was kind of the early
version of liquidity providers.

998
01:06:48,990 --> 01:06:52,800
I think the early version of
liquidity providers that, by the

999
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,010
way, we actually implemented
braces that we open the 1

1000
01:06:56,010 --> 01:07:00,960
million Satoshi channel to end
user for free. That was version

1001
01:07:00,990 --> 01:07:02,910
that's a bad, that's a bad
business model.

1002
01:07:03,810 --> 01:07:08,430
Yeah, but we did that on purpose
in order to learn to understand

1003
01:07:08,430 --> 01:07:11,670
the use cases and how people are
using like, here's where

1004
01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:14,700
we're at now. Exactly. We're
also figuring it out now, like,

1005
01:07:14,700 --> 01:07:16,860
Okay, how are people using it,
but all of this could go away

1006
01:07:16,860 --> 01:07:18,480
for us is what I'm hearing you
say?

1007
01:07:19,290 --> 01:07:23,760
So yeah, so what I'm saying is
that, when you create channels

1008
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:29,220
on the fly, you can reuse the
liquidity in sent right to to

1009
01:07:29,220 --> 01:07:33,810
users, in order to open the
channels. You don't say I like

1010
01:07:33,870 --> 01:07:38,940
Open the Channels upfront, you
open the channel as a reaction

1011
01:07:38,970 --> 01:07:44,160
to receiving the funding the
funds. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Is so

1012
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,010
that that mitigates this kind of
issue?

1013
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:51,480
Right? Yes. Yes. Where you take
a small percentage for opening

1014
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,000
the channel, you take that of
the initial funding. Okay. Yeah.

1015
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,490
Well, that's great. That makes
total sense. Yeah,

1016
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,540
yeah. So we take a small
processions, by the way maybe

1017
01:08:00,540 --> 01:08:06,270
when will we will route more in
a different scale and maybe fees

1018
01:08:06,270 --> 01:08:11,070
will be higher, maybe we can we
can do that for free. But for

1019
01:08:11,070 --> 01:08:15,510
now, in order to offset some of
our expenses, we we do take a

1020
01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:19,170
small fee when you open it when
we open the channel on the

1021
01:08:19,170 --> 01:08:22,110
flight and you don't have enough
inbound liquidity.

1022
01:08:22,770 --> 01:08:26,010
And that that's that's what a
zero comp channel is. I mean,

1023
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,280
that it's a it's a pre it's
opening a channel before the

1024
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:30,750
payments settled on chain right.

1025
01:08:32,100 --> 01:08:37,710
So to two to two concepts two
terms and which which serve

1026
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:38,940
different turbo I guess it's a

1027
01:08:38,940 --> 01:08:39,870
turbo channel really.

1028
01:08:40,620 --> 01:08:44,430
One One is a channel it is
creating channels on the fly.

1029
01:08:44,460 --> 01:08:48,750
This actually is the ability
that you need in order to open a

1030
01:08:48,750 --> 01:08:53,160
channel in order to a as a
response to receiving funds

1031
01:08:53,190 --> 01:08:57,300
that's one term I don't like the
use is zero confront turbo

1032
01:08:57,300 --> 01:09:00,870
channels are the same. I don't
like the marketing name of tuber

1033
01:09:00,870 --> 01:09:06,870
channels. So I use zero calm
because it exposes the expose

1034
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:11,640
the nature of the channel, zero
cons channel means you trust

1035
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:15,750
breeze, a until the channel is
confirmed. So zero coins

1036
01:09:15,750 --> 01:09:20,610
channeled provides the ability
to spend the funds immediately

1037
01:09:20,610 --> 01:09:23,850
after receiving them without
waiting for on chain

1038
01:09:23,850 --> 01:09:28,020
confirmation. So you can install
breeze receive payment and spend

1039
01:09:28,020 --> 01:09:31,530
this payment immediately without
waiting for origin confirmation.

1040
01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:34,560
And this is a zero point
channel. It's kind of different

1041
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:40,620
from channel on the fly. Like so
I think with this new

1042
01:09:40,620 --> 01:09:45,450
infrastructure, this is stuff
that we worked on during 2020

1043
01:09:45,450 --> 01:09:49,260
and still improving. I think
this mitigates really the no

1044
01:09:49,260 --> 01:09:52,290
with the inbound liquidity issue
because you don't need in one

1045
01:09:52,290 --> 01:09:55,560
liquidity. The inbound liquidity
is the inbound liquidity the

1046
01:09:55,560 --> 01:10:00,900
user that users provide and got
it so you don't So you don't

1047
01:10:00,900 --> 01:10:05,700
need like a central entity and
stuff like that you need to as

1048
01:10:05,700 --> 01:10:10,380
an LSP, you need to have enough
liquidity in order to serve a

1049
01:10:10,410 --> 01:10:16,320
dynamically the users that are
coming to your A to your node

1050
01:10:16,350 --> 01:10:20,520
and asking for channels to be to
be created. But that's it, you

1051
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:24,510
don't need like, we can talk
about liquidity management after

1052
01:10:24,510 --> 01:10:29,160
but it's a complicated topic.
The thing is the main issue that

1053
01:10:29,670 --> 01:10:34,500
that doesn't solve, unlike
custodial solution, when you run

1054
01:10:34,530 --> 01:10:39,210
a node on your mobile device, to
know that actually runs only

1055
01:10:39,210 --> 01:10:45,810
when the app is active, a
meaning you can receive bands

1056
01:10:45,870 --> 01:10:50,010
only when the app is active. Now
there are ways to work around

1057
01:10:50,010 --> 01:10:55,050
that. Like you can use a GSM and
mobile notification in order to

1058
01:10:55,050 --> 01:10:58,830
wake the app and stuff like
that. But it's really unreliable

1059
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:03,810
with the current mobile
operating systems. And it's not

1060
01:11:03,810 --> 01:11:09,390
solution that is inherit a two,
two lightning, meaning it's not

1061
01:11:09,390 --> 01:11:12,690
self contained in lightning,
what what what will happen if

1062
01:11:12,690 --> 01:11:16,710
you want to run in lightning
application in your browser, or

1063
01:11:16,740 --> 01:11:20,520
in another device? So we need to
have a way in earth, really to

1064
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,880
be on par with custodial
solution? We need to have a way

1065
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,360
to receive payments, even if
you're not running your node

1066
01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:28,110
actively.

1067
01:11:29,130 --> 01:11:31,560
Right. But that requires
something in the cloud

1068
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:32,760
listening, then I presume?

1069
01:11:34,230 --> 01:11:38,970
Yes, yes, that's definitely part
of the solution. And maybe using

1070
01:11:38,970 --> 01:11:42,900
other nodes in order to delegate
the receive functions to other

1071
01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:46,170
nodes in the network. Nodes that
you know, that will be online,

1072
01:11:46,260 --> 01:11:50,850
maybe you use your own nodes in
the cloud, like a watch our like

1073
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,410
you have watched our notes that

1074
01:11:53,670 --> 01:11:58,740
this is very interesting. This
is because this is where the

1075
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:03,420
this is. This is where we the
wallet metaphor has to go away.

1076
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:09,120
Because I understand, what
you're saying is you can have a

1077
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:13,890
noncustodial solution, as long
as your key is on your phone for

1078
01:12:13,890 --> 01:12:17,940
sending receiving doesn't really
matter that much. Is that what

1079
01:12:17,940 --> 01:12:18,510
you're saying?

1080
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:23,370
Yes, yes, that's exactly what
I'm saying. I think we solutions

1081
01:12:23,370 --> 01:12:29,520
like a PLCs, there will be an
option in lightning, to split

1082
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:34,530
the keys and to have different
keys for different actions. I

1083
01:12:34,530 --> 01:12:41,580
can imagine the future a user
users will have a way to give

1084
01:12:41,580 --> 01:12:46,590
receive keys to other nodes, and
then tell them like I'm

1085
01:12:46,620 --> 01:12:47,430
delegating the

1086
01:12:48,630 --> 01:12:51,090
right. Okay, oh, that's a cool
idea.

1087
01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:55,200
And use this key in order to do
that. And I can revoke this key

1088
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:01,140
whenever I want. So the user can
control the key. But if we will

1089
01:13:01,140 --> 01:13:06,810
have the ability to have to
split the keys, the lightning

1090
01:13:06,810 --> 01:13:12,390
keys to two different
applications. One is for sending

1091
01:13:12,420 --> 01:13:19,110
and the other for receiving,
then a I can delegate the node

1092
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:24,030
because I don't want other nodes
to spend my funds that but I can

1093
01:13:24,030 --> 01:13:30,120
trust another node to receive
funds on my behalf. The only

1094
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,780
thing the only thing that I'm
losing is kind of the trust,

1095
01:13:33,810 --> 01:13:38,550
there's a trust element that I
trust this note to accept the

1096
01:13:38,580 --> 01:13:41,730
funds on my behalf. That's the
only downside.

1097
01:13:43,020 --> 01:13:46,050
Well, that reminds me of
something like it's a model very

1098
01:13:46,050 --> 01:13:50,580
similar to pop three. So nobody
runs their own email server. But

1099
01:13:50,730 --> 01:13:57,120
we debt we sort of delegate the
receive ability to receive email

1100
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,090
on our behalf to some cloud
server that we've chosen to

1101
01:14:00,090 --> 01:14:04,200
trust for that function. And
then our email clients just go

1102
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:08,580
and periodically pull those
emails down the other that the

1103
01:14:08,580 --> 01:14:13,020
other server has has gotten for
us on our behalf so we and we

1104
01:14:13,020 --> 01:14:16,470
said that you know when it comes
to descending I'll you know I'll

1105
01:14:16,650 --> 01:14:19,620
I'll retain control of that
myself you know, through an SMTP

1106
01:14:19,620 --> 01:14:23,910
channel or route to that through
there SMTP host I'll just do

1107
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:27,660
that on a one off. I'm not going
to let this this email server

1108
01:14:27,660 --> 01:14:31,830
just send things randomly that
you know as me I retain control

1109
01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:35,190
of that but on the receiving
side, I will let them receive on

1110
01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:35,970
behalf of me.

1111
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:38,850
Yes, because I think that's a
great analogy.

1112
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:43,230
I like them so that's something
that we could do we could be a

1113
01:14:43,230 --> 01:14:49,950
mini LSP I guess in that case.
CK I want to stay away from

1114
01:14:49,950 --> 01:14:53,400
that. I don't really want to do
that quite honestly. Do what

1115
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:58,500
anything I just want you to do
it right. Can you just do

1116
01:14:58,500 --> 01:15:00,600
everything and fix it for us
because I'm No, no,

1117
01:15:01,230 --> 01:15:06,180
no. But by the way, I think this
is also about this specifically

1118
01:15:06,180 --> 01:15:11,670
what we're trying to do embrace.
And I'm trying to onboard. And

1119
01:15:11,730 --> 01:15:14,610
luckily there are there are
people that we're working on,

1120
01:15:14,850 --> 01:15:18,660
like the folks from spiral a
we're working together right now

1121
01:15:18,660 --> 01:15:23,250
is to make the LSP functionality
a standard. So I don't think

1122
01:15:23,250 --> 01:15:26,790
it's a single vendor play a
breeze in breeze, by the way,

1123
01:15:26,790 --> 01:15:29,700
you can connect to other nodes
in the network, I don't want to

1124
01:15:29,700 --> 01:15:34,770
be the sole LSP I want to be
illiquidity market, I want to be

1125
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,370
to have competition around the
liquidity. I think we need

1126
01:15:38,370 --> 01:15:42,120
multiple LSPs I think multiple
LSPs. And an open network in

1127
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:47,010
that regard, creates competition
competition, creates better

1128
01:15:47,010 --> 01:15:53,130
prices, and better and user
experience. So so so my goal is

1129
01:15:53,130 --> 01:15:58,110
to ever an open client where a
user can connect to multiple

1130
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,390
LSPs and to choose the LSPs.
They want to interact with a I

1131
01:16:03,390 --> 01:16:04,560
think that's the end goal.

1132
01:16:04,980 --> 01:16:07,920
And is this something that you
also see being an important part

1133
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:12,660
of a self custody LSP type deal
at home on an Umbral?

1134
01:16:13,890 --> 01:16:19,290
I think that's that that's a key
element. I think, without a way

1135
01:16:19,290 --> 01:16:26,700
to offload a cloud node to your
own device, we're still at a

1136
01:16:26,700 --> 01:16:31,740
censorship position. I didn't
care what was the Ambrose guys

1137
01:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,740
are doing with their
infrastructure they're building

1138
01:16:34,740 --> 01:16:40,710
and other folks like star nine?
Yeah. It's a key element. It's

1139
01:16:40,710 --> 01:16:44,340
part of the package, the ability
to offload something from a

1140
01:16:44,340 --> 01:16:47,070
cloud environment to your home
environment. Yeah.

1141
01:16:47,070 --> 01:16:53,850
And I want to say I had a very,
very nice experience with the

1142
01:16:53,850 --> 01:16:59,070
Bitcoin machines company, they,
they basically put a Raspberry

1143
01:16:59,070 --> 01:17:04,140
Pi and preload Umbral in a box,
it pretty little box that you I

1144
01:17:04,140 --> 01:17:07,380
have always wanted this, I go
back to the cobalt cube, which I

1145
01:17:07,380 --> 01:17:10,560
think we've talked about on the
show, I've always thought a home

1146
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,680
server would be great. And
people have tried this and tried

1147
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,790
this. And for some reason, the
minute they threw in a Bitcoin,

1148
01:17:18,270 --> 01:17:23,940
and even better threw in
lightning, all of a sudden this

1149
01:17:23,940 --> 01:17:28,770
device is now it's complete. It
has everything you want. And you

1150
01:17:28,770 --> 01:17:33,090
know it has next cloud in there.
I really think this is something

1151
01:17:33,090 --> 01:17:36,480
big. And I just I don't know if
you're familiar with tail scale,

1152
01:17:37,020 --> 01:17:42,210
to be heard of this. No tail
scale is it's it's built on, I

1153
01:17:42,210 --> 01:17:46,320
think, the Wireshark protocol.
But basically, you view, you

1154
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,700
install it on all your machines,
and you have a VPN with your

1155
01:17:50,700 --> 01:17:54,660
machines. And even if you have
an Umbral node at home running

1156
01:17:54,660 --> 01:17:57,600
on tour, you haven't popped any
ports open, you don't have to do

1157
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,710
any of that you just installed
to scale. And then it works. And

1158
01:18:01,710 --> 01:18:07,680
in fact, it's so cool. I put up
a piehole on this on this new

1159
01:18:07,710 --> 01:18:12,510
Umbral. And you can then through
tail scale route all your

1160
01:18:12,510 --> 01:18:16,710
traffic even on your phone
through that piehole on your

1161
01:18:16,710 --> 01:18:21,720
home network. I mean, these are
these are really, really cool

1162
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:22,860
things that are happening.

1163
01:18:23,519 --> 01:18:27,209
Yeah, I definitely agree.
Although, although I don't think

1164
01:18:27,209 --> 01:18:31,619
that's the key to mass adoption.
And where I'm focusing is on

1165
01:18:31,859 --> 01:18:34,319
mass. Yeah, I don't think
everyone will around.

1166
01:18:34,500 --> 01:18:37,740
And oh, no, oh, no, no, no,
don't don't get me wrong. But I

1167
01:18:37,740 --> 01:18:41,940
think there's a significant
segment that sees the benefit of

1168
01:18:41,940 --> 01:18:45,960
having all of their shit now at
home. There is a segment and I

1169
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:47,970
think it's important because
those

1170
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:51,840
are the segment. Right, but the
moronic? Yes. And number node.

1171
01:18:52,620 --> 01:18:55,710
Yeah, of course, of course. It's
a key. And it's a key element of

1172
01:18:55,710 --> 01:18:59,670
the of the of the solution. So
if we'll have nodes running in

1173
01:18:59,670 --> 01:19:05,580
the cloud, we will have no, it's
a must have to have a way to

1174
01:19:05,610 --> 01:19:10,920
take the information from the
cloud nodes and run, run them in

1175
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,070
your home environment. Think
it's part yeah,

1176
01:19:14,070 --> 01:19:16,950
you can take it right away and
put it in to just move it over.

1177
01:19:16,950 --> 01:19:17,940
It's cool. Yeah.

1178
01:19:18,150 --> 01:19:20,880
And that's part of the solution.
Because if something gets

1179
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:24,630
installed in the cloud, and if
they I don't know which cloud

1180
01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:29,640
environment voltage or I don't
know, the other nodes providers

1181
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,760
are using if it's not good
enough, take your node, trust

1182
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:34,320
yourself, run it in your

1183
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:39,240
own environment, right. Man The
future's so bright.

1184
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:45,270
Yeah, yeah. But it's again it's
a marathon not a sprint. So I

1185
01:19:45,270 --> 01:19:48,900
understand the I understand
it's, it can be frustrated,

1186
01:19:49,260 --> 01:19:53,820
frustrating due to its I'm going
to interact with lightning and

1187
01:19:53,820 --> 01:19:57,540
they're still caveat and
payments are still failing, but

1188
01:19:58,770 --> 01:20:01,290
are only Go ahead. Sorry.

1189
01:20:01,740 --> 01:20:07,170
I'm just saying the only way to
resolve that is to keep building

1190
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:11,820
and keep improving the existing
tooling and keep working on the

1191
01:20:12,150 --> 01:20:16,230
on fixing things, fixing the
problem, one problem after

1192
01:20:16,230 --> 01:20:16,680
another.

1193
01:20:17,340 --> 01:20:20,250
The biggest problem with the
Bitcoin community and the

1194
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:22,800
lightning community is the
community itself. Unfortunately,

1195
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,340
it's always like that.
Something, something really

1196
01:20:26,340 --> 01:20:30,570
angered me this past week. You
know, we have the Are you

1197
01:20:30,570 --> 01:20:36,450
familiar with pod? Ping Roy?
Hmm. No, to pod ping is

1198
01:20:36,450 --> 01:20:39,330
basically a blockchain based
messaging bus

1199
01:20:39,330 --> 01:20:43,080
for podcasts. Oh, you're talking
about the hive? Yeah, yeah.

1200
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:48,870
And I'll tell you, I'll tell you
what made me mad is that we

1201
01:20:48,870 --> 01:20:53,430
there was a specific use case
for something that podcasting

1202
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:59,910
needs. And after many, many
presentations, Dave and Dave,

1203
01:20:59,940 --> 01:21:02,700
and then Dave, you know,
wouldn't once Dave was on board,

1204
01:21:02,700 --> 01:21:05,580
what do I need to talk about? I
was like, okay, yeah, we were

1205
01:21:05,580 --> 01:21:07,620
convinced that this was the
right way to do it. Now. It's

1206
01:21:07,620 --> 01:21:14,520
based on hive. And the hive
blockchain seems to be a lot

1207
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:19,260
more utility than shit coin.
Although, I guess technically

1208
01:21:19,260 --> 01:21:24,450
it's a shit coin. What? What was
so disappointing is, you know,

1209
01:21:24,480 --> 01:21:28,230
we're very excited about pod
ping. It's visit future proofing

1210
01:21:28,230 --> 01:21:32,400
podcasting. To the degree that
we know it's you know, that

1211
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:36,930
blockchain is future proof. I
see no way to do what pod ping

1212
01:21:36,930 --> 01:21:42,570
does in certainly not on chain
with Bitcoin, or with the

1213
01:21:42,570 --> 01:21:47,070
Lightning Network. But the
vitriol, the vitriol of people

1214
01:21:47,070 --> 01:21:53,160
coming in and trashing people
was just and and this was a lot

1215
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,460
of different ranges of people
within the community. That was

1216
01:21:56,490 --> 01:21:59,700
it and but really, like, you
need to stop right away and, and

1217
01:21:59,700 --> 01:22:03,510
then starting rumors, Adam curry
is a shit coiner it's like, holy

1218
01:22:03,510 --> 01:22:05,820
crap. What is wrong?

1219
01:22:05,820 --> 01:22:09,120
The Bitcoin Maxis just showed
there this week.

1220
01:22:09,630 --> 01:22:12,840
We got that in our group as well
as the breeze telegram group as

1221
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:20,010
well. But But I don't know, like
Maxis has have the role in the

1222
01:22:20,010 --> 01:22:24,990
in the in the ecosystem. So if
you can defend your what you're

1223
01:22:24,990 --> 01:22:28,170
saying basically, that you use
the hive as it is a backend

1224
01:22:28,170 --> 01:22:33,480
implementation infrastructure,
right. It's not it's not part of

1225
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:38,100
the payments or testing,
podcasting 2.0 compensation

1226
01:22:38,460 --> 01:22:41,970
system in any way. But to us
from a technical standpoint, you

1227
01:22:41,970 --> 01:22:46,470
chose to use blockchain as a as
an alternative to a database,

1228
01:22:46,590 --> 01:22:47,970
correct? Yeah, exactly.

1229
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,420
So you need to defend that
decision, you need to have the

1230
01:22:51,450 --> 01:22:55,560
ability to defend that decision.
Because I think what, what what,

1231
01:22:55,800 --> 01:23:04,350
what I didn't found, I didn't
find a blockchain to be could be

1232
01:23:04,350 --> 01:23:08,400
a better solution that then
existing databases. So if you

1233
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,950
can defend the solution, I think
the max is will be okay.

1234
01:23:10,980 --> 01:23:13,590
No, no, we can defend the
solution, the maxis need to read

1235
01:23:13,590 --> 01:23:17,160
what we're doing, what happens
is the maxis come along and say,

1236
01:23:17,250 --> 01:23:19,530
Oh, hi, I've been podcasting.
No, we all know

1237
01:23:21,420 --> 01:23:24,600
it. But that's not open only
with the maxis, the superficial

1238
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,420
discussion that is going on
online. Like it's everywhere.

1239
01:23:27,450 --> 01:23:29,730
Yeah, I'm just, I'm just
bitching about it. Because I

1240
01:23:29,730 --> 01:23:33,090
just I felt really bad for Brian
because Brian is taken. First of

1241
01:23:33,090 --> 01:23:35,970
all, he's taken more abuse for
me than anybody. I have abused

1242
01:23:36,180 --> 01:23:40,800
this man for two years. And he
is he's a he's a wonderful,

1243
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,830
wonderful person. He really he's
doing this for podcasting. He

1244
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:47,910
has his own hive agenda, which
is fine. And every six months,

1245
01:23:47,910 --> 01:23:50,640
I'll try and understand hive
again, like give up. It's just,

1246
01:23:51,630 --> 01:23:54,960
I have I'm getting closer each
time. But but that's but that's

1247
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,710
beside the point. It's just so
destructive. That's all but just

1248
01:23:58,710 --> 01:23:59,940
stop doing that people.

1249
01:24:01,290 --> 01:24:06,270
The Steve Jobs thing of it,
people have to mature into the

1250
01:24:06,270 --> 01:24:09,360
Steve Jobs understanding of this
and what I'm specifically

1251
01:24:09,390 --> 01:24:14,370
talking about his famous
statement, that as Apple people,

1252
01:24:14,370 --> 01:24:17,370
we need to stop thinking that
Microsoft has to lose in order

1253
01:24:17,370 --> 01:24:20,460
for us to win. Yeah, like, if
you're confident if you're

1254
01:24:20,460 --> 01:24:24,060
confident in the thing that you
believe, then you don't have to

1255
01:24:24,060 --> 01:24:27,660
have everything else lose in
order for your thing to succeed.

1256
01:24:27,810 --> 01:24:32,940
And but I'll be honest with you,
that if someone wants to do an

1257
01:24:32,940 --> 01:24:37,620
implementation with stable coins
or whatever ship coin, I mean,

1258
01:24:37,890 --> 01:24:41,160
who am I to say no, I mean, the
spec is open. You can do it with

1259
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:42,990
Fiat if you want if you want to

1260
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:45,630
let your market decide exactly
and but

1261
01:24:45,630 --> 01:24:49,200
the market but this is this is
so it was easy because the eath

1262
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:53,670
people there, they're here the
East people, they just yell at

1263
01:24:53,670 --> 01:24:58,860
you whenever you go on Rogen.
Yeah, it was like you said the

1264
01:24:58,860 --> 01:25:02,760
cerium sucks. So that's the
that's my, that's exactly what

1265
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,130
they sound like, actually,
that's the eighth guy. That's

1266
01:25:05,130 --> 01:25:09,330
the guy. And, and for them, it's
really easy because I always

1267
01:25:09,330 --> 01:25:12,930
say, Where's your code? Bitch?
It's open, where's your code?

1268
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:17,010
Where's your gas flowing through
the system? That's easy. But

1269
01:25:17,010 --> 01:25:21,690
it's just when you get attacked
from the behind. Just always a

1270
01:25:21,690 --> 01:25:24,210
little a surprising, that's all
there's my first real

1271
01:25:24,210 --> 01:25:26,790
experience. And I mean, I got
friends to

1272
01:25:26,790 --> 01:25:31,080
feature it's a feature item.
It's not a bug. It's a way for,

1273
01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:34,620
for the community to striking
detail.

1274
01:25:35,010 --> 01:25:38,070
So you always know how to calm
me down. I love that about you.

1275
01:25:38,370 --> 01:25:44,250
I you know how much shit I got,
like doing breweries like, like,

1276
01:25:44,310 --> 01:25:50,040
it's all around it going on, it
will never stop. And I'm okay

1277
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:55,050
with that. Like, it's part of
being a of being a part of the

1278
01:25:55,050 --> 01:25:59,040
Bitcoin ecosystem. And I embrace
that, and I love it. Because it

1279
01:25:59,100 --> 01:26:03,180
allows me to reflect on our
decision, it allows us to

1280
01:26:03,180 --> 01:26:07,890
improve. And if I know that, if
I'm confident in my decision, my

1281
01:26:07,890 --> 01:26:12,030
technical decision, then I can
explain it. I stand behind my

1282
01:26:12,030 --> 01:26:12,630
decision

1283
01:26:12,690 --> 01:26:16,350
right now, but you know what?
I've been, I've been in the

1284
01:26:16,350 --> 01:26:19,530
public eye since I was 19. I've
taken a lot of shit my whole

1285
01:26:19,530 --> 01:26:22,860
life for a lot of different
things. I'm just defensive of

1286
01:26:22,860 --> 01:26:25,980
the people who are in the
project. That's all. I'm just

1287
01:26:25,980 --> 01:26:30,090
defensive. When when people just
do that. It's like, ah, but

1288
01:26:30,090 --> 01:26:33,990
yeah, yes, I agree with you, in
general is good, because it does

1289
01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:38,100
make you question and I think I
Dave and I both have questions.

1290
01:26:38,100 --> 01:26:40,890
Everyone's question this. But
you know, from a technical

1291
01:26:40,890 --> 01:26:44,370
standpoint, it's it's perfect.
It's perfect for what we needed.

1292
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:45,780
And it's,

1293
01:26:45,810 --> 01:26:49,170
we need another plus guests in
order to dive into that, I can

1294
01:26:49,170 --> 01:26:54,030
tell you that personally, I so I
so many blockchain projects and

1295
01:26:54,030 --> 01:26:59,310
I still is not convinced in the
in the in the, like, blockchain

1296
01:26:59,310 --> 01:27:01,950
technology. Blockchain is a
technology I don't see in it.

1297
01:27:02,220 --> 01:27:08,610
Like, but but data, it's a topic
for another podcast.

1298
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,790
Well, we get you want to thank
some people. Adam,

1299
01:27:11,969 --> 01:27:14,759
I think we should definitely
thank some people, Dave. Right.

1300
01:27:16,349 --> 01:27:25,139
And I wanted to say that a
second is my favorite right now.

1301
01:27:26,429 --> 01:27:31,139
I really love that one. We
really appreciate everybody who

1302
01:27:31,139 --> 01:27:34,739
supports the entire project
podcasting 2.0 its value for

1303
01:27:34,739 --> 01:27:38,279
value. And with a book
forthcoming from Adam curry and

1304
01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:41,039
Jhansi Dvorak, we're gonna we're
gonna write our book, the value

1305
01:27:41,039 --> 01:27:44,039
for value book about the
genesis, how it works, how to do

1306
01:27:44,039 --> 01:27:48,329
it. This is this is really
needed right now in, in value

1307
01:27:48,329 --> 01:27:51,209
for value land, people need a
little bit of a roadmap, and

1308
01:27:51,209 --> 01:27:53,549
we're going to give that book
away value for value. So that'll

1309
01:27:53,579 --> 01:27:56,579
that'll be the the meta Excel
Yeah, the medics, we're not

1310
01:27:56,579 --> 01:27:59,909
going to make it running and
print it. When I put in PDFs,

1311
01:28:00,449 --> 01:28:03,809
you know, whatever, if every
format and then

1312
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:05,340
put it on the blockchain one
paragraph.

1313
01:28:07,290 --> 01:28:13,920
Okay, we'll throw it in hive, no
doubt. Which means that there's

1314
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:17,820
no and it's, you know, just full
disclosure, Roy and I talk

1315
01:28:17,820 --> 01:28:21,420
regularly, not as regularly as
we should. And we, we talk about

1316
01:28:21,420 --> 01:28:25,260
all kinds of stuff. And usually
I'm like, you know, how, how can

1317
01:28:25,290 --> 01:28:28,170
I make everyone some money on
this thing? And Roy's answer is

1318
01:28:28,170 --> 01:28:30,900
always, man, you're gonna be
rich, just to close to me, which

1319
01:28:30,900 --> 01:28:39,270
sounds right. I'm paraphrasing,
of course. But every single time

1320
01:28:39,300 --> 01:28:43,890
we talk about projects and the
funding, I always come back to

1321
01:28:43,890 --> 01:28:47,310
the same thing is like, if
podcast index, if this project

1322
01:28:47,310 --> 01:28:52,080
had any outside funding other
than honestly earned through API

1323
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,700
and fees, it would suck it would
somewhere down the line, it

1324
01:28:56,700 --> 01:28:59,940
would suck. So we made a very
conscious decision. It's called

1325
01:28:59,940 --> 01:29:03,480
the vow of poverty, it's how
most podcasts are start to and

1326
01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:07,350
to really stick with it and move
through it now we do have costs

1327
01:29:07,350 --> 01:29:10,590
we do have stuff that needs to
be paid for. And the more we do

1328
01:29:10,590 --> 01:29:15,240
the more cost and so people we
really appreciate you supporting

1329
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,900
us in time talent and treasure
the three T's on the treasure

1330
01:29:18,900 --> 01:29:22,800
side, it's really quite
interesting to me how the

1331
01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:26,070
Bitcoin community loves what
we're doing love the love the

1332
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:30,930
use case, I have yet to see any
company of significant support

1333
01:29:30,930 --> 01:29:34,500
this project, it's okay, I'm
just saying. So I would like to

1334
01:29:34,500 --> 01:29:39,420
add today to our pitch. If you
have a podcast and you're using

1335
01:29:39,420 --> 01:29:44,460
value for value in podcasting
2.0 We've put our value our our

1336
01:29:44,460 --> 01:29:49,200
note Id on in the in the show
notes. Feel free to add us to

1337
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:53,250
your split as an extra to help
support Feel free. We would

1338
01:29:53,250 --> 01:29:56,760
really appreciate that and be
extra cool because then we can

1339
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:58,980
also read some of your booster
grams on our show.

1340
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:04,110
Awesome says,

1341
01:30:04,350 --> 01:30:07,440
You know what? This just came to
mind Dave, that may be a problem

1342
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:11,070
I got to think about. We've been
I've seen booster Graham show up

1343
01:30:11,190 --> 01:30:15,180
that we were clearly put in a
split. And I'm like, wait a

1344
01:30:15,180 --> 01:30:17,730
minute, I don't do this show.
Why is this showing up? Where

1345
01:30:17,730 --> 01:30:20,070
does what is this was really
interesting.

1346
01:30:20,099 --> 01:30:21,989
This is all sold about pivot
tables.

1347
01:30:23,580 --> 01:30:30,900
Exactly. So we as part of the
value for value loop. We love to

1348
01:30:30,930 --> 01:30:34,620
thank everybody who supported us
and read any messages, whether

1349
01:30:34,620 --> 01:30:39,450
it's fiyat fun writings, or
booster grants. Either way,

1350
01:30:39,480 --> 01:30:40,830
either way, we love both.

1351
01:30:41,460 --> 01:30:43,320
I like that Thea theat fun
scribbles?

1352
01:30:43,379 --> 01:30:46,409
So fun. Ooh, there you go. fiyat
fun scribbles? There you go.

1353
01:30:46,889 --> 01:30:52,229
I'm redoing the fee. What's the
fee Fun? Fun coupons first,

1354
01:30:53,009 --> 01:30:56,009
Marco Arment every month $500

1355
01:30:56,759 --> 01:30:58,019
Thank you very much Marco.

1356
01:30:58,559 --> 01:31:04,859
Wanted, you know, a critical,
sustaining, sustaining donation

1357
01:31:04,859 --> 01:31:08,249
every single month that comes
with $500 and I can't thank him

1358
01:31:08,249 --> 01:31:15,359
enough. Thank you, Martha.
Always the other big donation

1359
01:31:15,359 --> 01:31:22,799
that we got this this month from
Buzzsprout $500. Also Whoa, yep.

1360
01:31:23,159 --> 01:31:26,009
Yep. And they that is a
subscript that's a monthly

1361
01:31:26,009 --> 01:31:28,019
subscriptions and monthly
subscription five

1362
01:31:29,490 --> 01:31:31,320
Thank you. Oh my goodness.

1363
01:31:31,889 --> 01:31:33,809
Don't those to sustain cast

1364
01:31:33,810 --> 01:31:35,460
sucks a cast sucks

1365
01:31:39,420 --> 01:31:42,150
that's the ad that says this.
This quid pro quo is?

1366
01:31:42,690 --> 01:31:45,510
That's right. You send us every
single month you send us that

1367
01:31:45,510 --> 01:31:48,750
that $500 I will tell everyone
how bad a cast sucks.

1368
01:31:49,770 --> 01:31:53,820
Well, that just means a cast on
the pony. But we

1369
01:31:53,820 --> 01:31:56,190
don't accept money from a cast
only if they boost the grant.

1370
01:31:56,670 --> 01:32:01,320
Okay, fair and balanced. This is
fair and balanced. Thanks guys.

1371
01:32:01,350 --> 01:32:03,870
Yeah, thank you to bus for I
appreciate that those two names

1372
01:32:03,870 --> 01:32:08,370
and donations are so so
important. Who thank

1373
01:32:08,370 --> 01:32:10,620
you that actually feels really
good to hear that

1374
01:32:10,740 --> 01:32:14,970
he does this kind of like every
Monday Well this is tax time for

1375
01:32:14,970 --> 01:32:18,600
us Eric just finished our taxes
you know as the as the LLC how

1376
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:19,140
does this work?

1377
01:32:19,139 --> 01:32:21,809
We didn't put any money in our
pocket but we were allowed to

1378
01:32:21,809 --> 01:32:22,829
pay taxes over

1379
01:32:24,030 --> 01:32:28,860
I know it's like last year I got
a k one that told me that I did

1380
01:32:28,860 --> 01:32:32,040
I got like 1000 bucks or
something like that. I'm like i

1381
01:32:32,070 --> 01:32:34,230
Where's this that mystical
$1,000

1382
01:32:34,470 --> 01:32:37,380
supposedly guy didn't see it
either. Like where did it go?

1383
01:32:37,500 --> 01:32:42,270
And then I got to put it on my
tax return. Okay. Yeah, anyway,

1384
01:32:42,300 --> 01:32:44,700
it's the money is top of mind
right now with having to pay

1385
01:32:44,700 --> 01:32:51,960
these taxes. We get $10 donation
from Stephanie fuccillo podcast

1386
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,890
consultant and all around
podcast genius. Thank you

1387
01:32:55,890 --> 01:32:56,370
Stephanie.

1388
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:58,590
What is definitely where she
worked for do you know

1389
01:32:59,490 --> 01:33:02,550
she's independent? I'm pretty
sure she's Miss she's written

1390
01:33:02,550 --> 01:33:04,770
some articles about pocket
pockets and 2.0 been a big

1391
01:33:04,770 --> 01:33:05,280
supporter of

1392
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,110
our great Thank you Stephanie.

1393
01:33:07,860 --> 01:33:12,330
And we got some booster grams
clearly yes, our PayPal right

1394
01:33:12,330 --> 01:33:12,630
there.

1395
01:33:12,660 --> 01:33:15,390
Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

1396
01:33:16,950 --> 01:33:23,670
We got 1000 SATs from V. He gave
us those SD pod friend and he

1397
01:33:23,670 --> 01:33:25,020
just says PIP you

1398
01:33:27,540 --> 01:33:31,470
Okay, so I just have to say I
thought it would be cute to

1399
01:33:31,470 --> 01:33:36,420
leave the my Umbro on in the
studio. It's it's literally five

1400
01:33:36,420 --> 01:33:39,990
arm lengths away and for some
reason, even though I would

1401
01:33:40,140 --> 01:33:44,730
during no agenda even though for
so I would from time to time. I

1402
01:33:44,730 --> 01:33:48,810
might hear it. It became a thing
and people were trying to

1403
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:52,590
trigger this booster Graham pew
pew sound while my mic was open

1404
01:33:52,770 --> 01:33:56,220
while I wasn't playing a clip
and what happened is really Dave

1405
01:33:56,220 --> 01:34:00,990
This is such a good sound. I've
gotten 30 emails people saying

1406
01:34:01,050 --> 01:34:04,230
do this I'm read with your sound
that I hear I hear like some

1407
01:34:04,260 --> 01:34:08,520
some some like pew sound is Is
there something I know how much

1408
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:10,650
you appreciate sound What are
you did something was wrong with

1409
01:34:10,650 --> 01:34:14,130
that? It's that shit cuts
through somehow.

1410
01:34:14,250 --> 01:34:17,730
Yeah, it's a notice the it
breaks through the noise gates.

1411
01:34:17,730 --> 01:34:20,940
That note is the noise. Breaker.
Yeah,

1412
01:34:20,970 --> 01:34:25,170
but you know, I liked it when
Spencer had it running during

1413
01:34:25,170 --> 01:34:27,300
your live show. I love hearing
that.

1414
01:34:28,410 --> 01:34:30,210
He must have had it piped in.
Oh, yeah. No,

1415
01:34:30,210 --> 01:34:32,850
it was right to know it was
direct. Yeah. And that that

1416
01:34:32,850 --> 01:34:35,130
makes a lot more sense. I just
can't imagine that during no

1417
01:34:35,130 --> 01:34:36,720
agenda. DeVore I could go nuts.

1418
01:34:37,470 --> 01:34:40,290
Because Because on Na Na what
you get is like,

1419
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:43,080
although if I told him I said
hey, that's money every single

1420
01:34:43,110 --> 01:34:45,570
time it comes in. He might he
might Oh yeah, leave that on.

1421
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:55,140
A burqa. Chad Ferro is perky
with 3333 sets. Yeah, he says do

1422
01:34:55,140 --> 01:34:57,720
it for Mo Yeah. Boom.

1423
01:34:58,170 --> 01:35:04,410
Chad has been, you know, most He
was fired from his job, man over

1424
01:35:04,410 --> 01:35:08,430
the mandates and but people
stepped up man people boosting

1425
01:35:08,610 --> 01:35:13,260
like 100,000 SATs 200,000 SATs
it's been beautiful to watch.

1426
01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:14,520
It's just freaking

1427
01:35:14,670 --> 01:35:17,940
like free Kevin moment. You
know? Do it for MO Yes

1428
01:35:18,719 --> 01:35:21,929
indeed indeed to it from Sir
Spencer

1429
01:35:21,930 --> 01:35:28,890
send us 330 3333 sets. Nice.
Thank you. Yes. Through fountain

1430
01:35:28,890 --> 01:35:31,920
he says hope this reaches you in
time. Looking forward to your

1431
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,500
visit with us Sunday on both
with us. Oh, that you read that

1432
01:35:34,500 --> 01:35:35,010
last that's

1433
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:38,730
yeah, that was. Yeah, we got
some new ones too. I don't know.

1434
01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:39,870
I don't know if you saw them
all.

1435
01:35:41,550 --> 01:35:46,380
Okay, so, five 5000 SATs through
to Satoshi stream. Through

1436
01:35:46,380 --> 01:35:49,950
fountain he says you mentioned
Dave, you mentioned Dave boosts

1437
01:35:49,980 --> 01:35:53,250
too much are you oh you
mentioned Dave boost too much.

1438
01:35:53,460 --> 01:35:56,640
Are you okay with me telling
what rank you are in terms of

1439
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,190
highest boosters institution
stream podcast? Yeah, I

1440
01:35:59,190 --> 01:36:03,480
told him and I told him yes. And
he didn't get back to me. Yeah,

1441
01:36:03,480 --> 01:36:06,150
and seen that he makes it sound
like I've been boosting a lot.

1442
01:36:07,230 --> 01:36:09,030
Oh, well. I don't know you.

1443
01:36:09,839 --> 01:36:12,659
I I am the badass booster.

1444
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:20,190
Sir dug through fountain. Give
us 4400 SATs and he just says

1445
01:36:20,460 --> 01:36:28,770
boost yo, boost. Sir Doug is
that it was Sir Doug. Oh, I

1446
01:36:28,770 --> 01:36:31,710
don't know. I'm just wondering
if it's Doug from the chat room.

1447
01:36:32,460 --> 01:36:33,270
Oh, no, no, no.

1448
01:36:33,810 --> 01:36:35,940
It's not Doug from the chat room
now.

1449
01:36:37,380 --> 01:36:42,300
This Bessie UK he gave us 117
SATs through fountain and he

1450
01:36:42,300 --> 01:36:45,270
says we need a Deutsche boost go
podcasting.

1451
01:36:45,750 --> 01:36:50,460
Give you wait we talked we
talked about that. We read this

1452
01:36:50,460 --> 01:36:53,400
one Yeah, we read this one
because I immediately got a

1453
01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:56,640
tweet from from Germans. No, it
was it was from him actually he

1454
01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:59,820
tweeted me and said ah we snuck
into podcasting 2.0 board

1455
01:36:59,820 --> 01:37:03,720
meeting we need a German boost.
Okay, so that's an old winner

1456
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,540
this by the way. I know that I
know what we call it we call it

1457
01:37:06,570 --> 01:37:07,380
Deus boost.

1458
01:37:08,910 --> 01:37:10,920
I don't remember this one from
last week. Yeah,

1459
01:37:10,950 --> 01:37:11,940
I'm weird that way.

1460
01:37:12,540 --> 01:37:17,490
Oh, you know what? Okay, here we
go. Satoshi stream came in later

1461
01:37:17,790 --> 01:37:21,960
and he says Dave is the largest
booster ever to Satoshis dot

1462
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:27,840
stream podcast number two
boosted see number two boosted

1463
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:31,230
half I don't know what that
means. That means

1464
01:37:31,230 --> 01:37:33,630
whoever the number two is
boosted half the amount you

1465
01:37:33,630 --> 01:37:34,200
boost.

1466
01:37:34,980 --> 01:37:38,580
Oh, so I basically own you own I
own boosters you are

1467
01:37:38,580 --> 01:37:40,350
paying me me a lot

1468
01:37:40,380 --> 01:37:45,060
this. This is just circular
money.

1469
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,840
Well, that's the point. That's
exactly what you want. Roi is

1470
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:51,900
not it isn't circular money,
isn't it? Aren't we proving the

1471
01:37:51,900 --> 01:37:52,860
whole thing here?

1472
01:37:54,330 --> 01:37:56,310
And not specifically in that
example.

1473
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:01,740
You know, you're using stop
using science and math.

1474
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,260
Really? Party pooper?

1475
01:38:04,710 --> 01:38:08,910
Yeah, it says oh, look at this.
He says Adam is number eight.

1476
01:38:09,630 --> 01:38:13,320
I'm a loser. What is this?
You're not You're almost outside

1477
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:14,370
the top 10 Holy

1478
01:38:14,370 --> 01:38:18,420
crap that I'm not used to this
stream mine. I know. Well, I

1479
01:38:18,420 --> 01:38:22,200
have to up my boosting game. Now
is that is that number of boosts

1480
01:38:22,230 --> 01:38:26,010
or overall value of boost?

1481
01:38:26,460 --> 01:38:29,490
It doesn't say here so clearly
says you stream needs to boost

1482
01:38:29,490 --> 01:38:32,910
us again. Yep. And let us know
and explain more. Yes.

1483
01:38:35,010 --> 01:38:38,790
Roy, this really works is that's
the great part. I think

1484
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:45,150
gamification is so so hard. I'm
so lovely. People literally say

1485
01:38:45,480 --> 01:38:48,990
Oh, this is one of the most
enjoyable ways to part with my

1486
01:38:48,990 --> 01:38:50,400
money. Yeah,

1487
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:53,970
I'm boosting for breeze because
you're brilliant. Wow.

1488
01:38:56,670 --> 01:38:57,840
Here's a breeze right here.

1489
01:38:57,870 --> 01:39:02,640
We got Brees is always number
one or number two every day.

1490
01:39:02,970 --> 01:39:06,540
Yeah, yeah, you're up there.
Yeah, you're not number eight.

1491
01:39:06,540 --> 01:39:07,590
Let's put it that way.

1492
01:39:09,180 --> 01:39:13,560
It's 100 sets through the breeze
app. He says more morning tests.

1493
01:39:13,590 --> 01:39:17,940
Yeah, breeze users are cheap
passes. Man. That's that's 100

1494
01:39:17,940 --> 01:39:18,990
SATs thanks

1495
01:39:20,730 --> 01:39:26,490
117 SATs from from messy UK. Oh,
there you go again, is we need a

1496
01:39:26,490 --> 01:39:30,900
Deutsche boost. This is a
different boost. Boost. Boost.

1497
01:39:31,140 --> 01:39:35,310
Bessie is is got Alzheimer's. I
mean he's really struggling.

1498
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:37,380
He's boosting things he's
already boost way

1499
01:39:37,380 --> 01:39:40,740
I got the Alzheimer's boost
boost. And by the way, not

1500
01:39:40,740 --> 01:39:42,840
anything bad against Alzheimer's
because it sucks.

1501
01:39:43,260 --> 01:39:48,390
No, no, no. Sorry. Let me see
now. Let's say that he's seen

1502
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:54,840
Oh, yeah. Mary Oscar. Oscar,
also known as Oscar Mary, sent

1503
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:59,970
us 22,222 SATs big row of ducks
through fountain of course nice.

1504
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:07,230
He says he says until March 1,
all new fountain users who

1505
01:40:07,230 --> 01:40:10,380
listened to a podcast will get
1000 Free SAS trap value for

1506
01:40:10,380 --> 01:40:12,960
value go podcasting. Now, that's

1507
01:40:14,310 --> 01:40:18,060
that's some onboarding right
there. Roy's ROI.

1508
01:40:19,710 --> 01:40:21,270
Yeah, I'll never do that.

1509
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:25,080
No, he won't. I know he won't. I
know he won't

1510
01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:28,410
never give up preset.

1511
01:40:28,440 --> 01:40:32,190
Hey, but Roy, let me ask you a
question. If I gave you 1000

1512
01:40:32,190 --> 01:40:34,650
SATs to give to your new users,
would you do it?

1513
01:40:36,420 --> 01:40:39,180
I can't keep the fee.

1514
01:40:40,260 --> 01:40:46,230
Free. So I'll give them 800.
Now, but as a serious question,

1515
01:40:46,290 --> 01:40:50,520
if we had someone who wanted to
help, okay, we have a use case,

1516
01:40:50,910 --> 01:40:54,210
we have someone who wants to
help people onboard onto

1517
01:40:54,210 --> 01:40:59,760
Bitcoin, and immediately give
them a sign up bonus of free

1518
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:04,620
Satoshi sent to any wallet they
want. I'm sorry. Sorry.

1519
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:09,660
I don't like I don't I saw like,
dozens of initiatives like that.

1520
01:41:10,110 --> 01:41:10,890
Never walked

1521
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:13,050
Tell me tell me why. What are
the pitfalls?

1522
01:41:13,470 --> 01:41:17,190
Because you don't get a quality
users? What do you get if you

1523
01:41:17,190 --> 01:41:21,810
get people that wants to use the
free set? And they don't use it

1524
01:41:21,810 --> 01:41:25,560
for like, for good? A

1525
01:41:25,590 --> 01:41:26,550
year or evil?

1526
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:32,730
What happens? Typically, if you
don't, if users don't understand

1527
01:41:32,730 --> 01:41:37,890
the meaning of Bitcoin, the
value of Bitcoin, the SATs won't

1528
01:41:37,890 --> 01:41:38,700
go anywhere.

1529
01:41:40,350 --> 01:41:44,070
If it's but if it's loaded in
the context of a podcast app,

1530
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:51,480
and you make them, you make them
spend it. But you need a way to

1531
01:41:51,480 --> 01:41:53,250
make them spend the SATs,

1532
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:54,120
right, yeah.

1533
01:41:54,150 --> 01:41:56,850
What about this? What about
this, you give you give them

1534
01:41:56,850 --> 01:42:00,390
1000 SATs? And if they haven't
spin it within? Within five

1535
01:42:00,390 --> 01:42:02,670
days? It all goes to me.

1536
01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:09,780
Perfect. Working on that day
gone? Probably. Does we like

1537
01:42:09,780 --> 01:42:14,040
that. No, but But generally
speaking, I don't really like

1538
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:15,060
paying users.

1539
01:42:15,930 --> 01:42:20,940
It is the way of the world of
course, that's how the current

1540
01:42:20,940 --> 01:42:24,990
world works with users. I
appreciate we want to change. I

1541
01:42:24,990 --> 01:42:27,390
know I That's why I appreciate
what you're saying about

1542
01:42:27,390 --> 01:42:31,080
understanding the value. That's,
that's exactly. That's a very

1543
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:31,770
good point.

1544
01:42:32,370 --> 01:42:35,790
It's value for value, right? And
there's value in this that 1000

1545
01:42:35,790 --> 01:42:37,020
sets that you're giving up.

1546
01:42:37,830 --> 01:42:39,900
It's a problem that you're this
practical ROI.

1547
01:42:40,110 --> 01:42:42,600
I know we should never invite
him back.

1548
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:48,540
Yes, yes. This was way too much
capitalist was three 333 says

1549
01:42:48,540 --> 01:42:52,440
from coal McCormick, do fountain
he says I started my own podcast

1550
01:42:52,440 --> 01:42:55,140
called America plus, I talk
about innovation happening in

1551
01:42:55,140 --> 01:42:58,140
the world and in myself. Still
learning how to create chapters

1552
01:42:58,140 --> 01:43:00,060
but I can sure except SAS

1553
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:05,040
whoops. Nice, man. Yeah, thank
you. Cool.

1554
01:43:05,730 --> 01:43:08,550
We got some we got to move. We
got so many booster grams here.

1555
01:43:09,660 --> 01:43:16,710
Hunt 100 sets through through
breeze is bleep. No name or

1556
01:43:16,710 --> 01:43:20,490
anything out from Franco Celerio
yet

1557
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:23,610
again. Again. I'm just

1558
01:43:24,990 --> 01:43:30,030
Franco Celerio through cast
ematic sin is 5150 sets. Oh, Van

1559
01:43:30,030 --> 01:43:30,390
Halen.

1560
01:43:30,420 --> 01:43:34,290
That's right. 51 cities. You
have to go to these insane

1561
01:43:34,290 --> 01:43:40,440
asylum, isn't it? Yeah. 5150 is
the code for the cop. That's why

1562
01:43:40,440 --> 01:43:44,490
Van Halen use it is the cop code
for him. You know, I'll give you

1563
01:43:44,490 --> 01:43:46,980
the exact Go ahead. Read the
read the note and I'll tell you

1564
01:43:46,980 --> 01:43:50,370
Yes, yes. A Franco said is 5153
test medic. He says is it a

1565
01:43:50,370 --> 01:43:53,430
problem? If every time I have to
debug some value for value issue

1566
01:43:53,430 --> 01:43:56,130
in Casta medic, I send you some
money. That is not a problem,

1567
01:43:56,130 --> 01:44:00,210
Franco. That is absolutely not a
problem. We actually encourage

1568
01:44:00,210 --> 01:44:00,330
it.

1569
01:44:00,540 --> 01:44:03,750
5150 is the number of the
section of the Welfare and

1570
01:44:03,750 --> 01:44:07,320
Institutions Code which allows a
person with a mental challenge

1571
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:11,370
to be involuntarily detained for
a 72 hour psychiatric

1572
01:44:11,370 --> 01:44:18,390
evaluation. Oh, okay. Also known
as Baker acting I think you

1573
01:44:18,390 --> 01:44:19,350
could do it to your kid.

1574
01:44:21,690 --> 01:44:24,210
I think that might come in
useful Sunday.

1575
01:44:24,210 --> 01:44:27,630
Yes, yes. Hey, kid. 51 That's
why they put it in there is that

1576
01:44:27,630 --> 01:44:29,130
Van Halen had had humor.

1577
01:44:30,870 --> 01:44:33,900
Mere Mortals podcast, our buddy
Karen downs and as a super rush

1578
01:44:33,900 --> 01:44:41,820
boost 21 112. And he says, Jay
Jones sounds like the bad boy

1579
01:44:41,820 --> 01:44:45,240
developer your rebellious
daughter brings? plays fast and

1580
01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:48,210
loose with the law but faster
and looser with code. Oh yeah.

1581
01:44:48,210 --> 01:44:54,420
Your API and then break your
heart. Hide your kids. Hide your

1582
01:44:54,420 --> 01:44:57,330
kids hide your pod ping and hide
you SAS because he's data

1583
01:44:57,330 --> 01:45:00,000
scraping everybody out of here.
Here's my here's my question.

1584
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:03,120
attribution to bring this about.
Thank you Karen.

1585
01:45:04,170 --> 01:45:06,900
That guy, he's a poet. He's a
poet

1586
01:45:07,110 --> 01:45:12,180
in like, freakin 12 languages.
He has a polymath. Yeah. Thank

1587
01:45:12,180 --> 01:45:18,150
you Carrie. Martin from pod
friend day. Notify 1932

1588
01:45:18,510 --> 01:45:22,710
Boom shaka laka he noticed that
that Martin comes back in the

1589
01:45:22,710 --> 01:45:26,160
comments just accelerated a
little bit somehow something

1590
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:26,670
happened

1591
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:31,080
it because he's he said because
he's such a bright like he's a

1592
01:45:31,140 --> 01:45:32,100
ray of sunshine

1593
01:45:32,130 --> 01:45:36,150
he is yes. A ray of Danish sense
sunshine. He's our he's our our

1594
01:45:36,150 --> 01:45:43,620
tasty Danish my whole goal in
life by the way is to make you

1595
01:45:43,620 --> 01:45:46,950
laugh, Dave. That's all I'm here
for. And I'll be here all week.

1596
01:45:46,980 --> 01:45:47,190
This

1597
01:45:48,690 --> 01:45:52,350
pod friend didn't taste the
Danish developer Martin since

1598
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,880
25,932. says and he says hello
world. I guess he's doing some

1599
01:45:56,880 --> 01:46:00,090
tests. We are beneficiaries of
this. Yeah. How you doing?

1600
01:46:01,260 --> 01:46:02,430
Hello. Hello World.

1601
01:46:02,850 --> 01:46:07,950
Cast Breeland 6600 says through
fountain and he says haha, pew

1602
01:46:07,950 --> 01:46:13,830
pew in the NA show. Let me see.
The PPU in the NA show. Let me

1603
01:46:13,830 --> 01:46:18,330
think of the sound on let's say
only fans. Were a bunch of sluts

1604
01:46:18,330 --> 01:46:20,790
and it works for the show boost.

1605
01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:25,590
Which reminds me just what
happened to your only fans. Roy

1606
01:46:25,620 --> 01:46:29,340
thought you were going to do an
only fans. Satoshi version.

1607
01:46:29,970 --> 01:46:34,020
Yeah, we got distracted a bit.
But we'll we'll we'll do that.

1608
01:46:34,500 --> 01:46:36,840
Yeah. It'll just it'll distract.

1609
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,320
Yes, that's yeah. No, that's
that's the service that

1610
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:41,370
everyone's waiting for it.

1611
01:46:42,240 --> 01:46:44,880
Okay, yeah, it's coming. It's
coming. I know

1612
01:46:48,930 --> 01:46:52,620
what you're you don't think you
don't think that's true? I know.

1613
01:46:52,620 --> 01:46:55,200
I know, Roy. He means that I
mean, oh, you can do anything

1614
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,660
you want with it, but only fans
is just a version.

1615
01:46:58,710 --> 01:47:04,290
And now guys. Okay. He said
he's, um, Alex, as he said, it's

1616
01:47:04,290 --> 01:47:04,740
coming.

1617
01:47:05,700 --> 01:47:10,050
No, believe me, believe me. In
my mind, I said get some tissue

1618
01:47:10,050 --> 01:47:11,760
but I don't do that anymore.

1619
01:47:12,509 --> 01:47:15,779
I can't help you call me out. I
had to admit it. Sorry. I'm a 12

1620
01:47:15,779 --> 01:47:16,289
year old.

1621
01:47:16,710 --> 01:47:18,450
perpetually. Yes.

1622
01:47:19,710 --> 01:47:25,890
Okay, in for Vieques since 1234
sets, and he says thank you for

1623
01:47:25,890 --> 01:47:28,530
your coding. Well, you're
welcome. They said that they're

1624
01:47:28,530 --> 01:47:36,270
curio caster. C 2222 SATs from B
mozzie. From Brian. Through

1625
01:47:36,270 --> 01:47:39,960
fountain he says spew those
sets. We'd like to

1626
01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:51,420
pre See primitive one.
Interesting. Gave us 12345 sets

1627
01:47:51,450 --> 01:47:54,690
Nice. Yeah. And he says my hood
friend and I want to do a

1628
01:47:54,690 --> 01:47:58,950
podcast about cover songs. I
think that you should Yes.

1629
01:48:01,410 --> 01:48:03,900
We actually talked about this on
the Macedon. You gotta be

1630
01:48:03,900 --> 01:48:07,800
careful. Yeah, cover Ville is
the only podcast that has really

1631
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:10,410
done that successfully. We got
to do a lot of clearances and

1632
01:48:10,410 --> 01:48:13,200
especially if you're receiving
SATs, just be careful on that.

1633
01:48:13,530 --> 01:48:16,800
Oh, that's because of the Yeah,
this music rice you know, you

1634
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,950
can just get into some shit
there. So yeah, consult a

1635
01:48:19,950 --> 01:48:21,510
lawyer. Or sorry.

1636
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:26,610
John's BRTs in his 49,000 SATs.
Whoa, mountain. Wait.

1637
01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:28,500
Is he a baller for today?

1638
01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:33,000
A dd dd let me look into the
list. Yeah.

1639
01:48:34,200 --> 01:48:39,720
Shot kala Blaze. Boost Nice.

1640
01:48:40,019 --> 01:48:46,889
Cleese's stacking SATs and
harvesting hive Thank you jobs

1641
01:48:46,889 --> 01:48:55,529
BRT. 70 cc. What's the 7777? Is
that? A name for that? Soccer

1642
01:48:55,529 --> 01:48:59,039
sevens, soccer sevens through
from Harry Duran from the

1643
01:48:59,039 --> 01:49:03,329
podcast junkies and he gave us
this this he found and he says,

1644
01:49:03,539 --> 01:49:06,059
I never thought an episode about
building the future of

1645
01:49:06,059 --> 01:49:10,199
podcasting could be so damn
sexy. Harry Duran podcast

1646
01:49:10,199 --> 01:49:14,879
junkies see

1647
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:17,250
how many more do we have Dave?

1648
01:49:17,490 --> 01:49:23,760
We got a few more 1000 says from
mollusc. And he says, wondering

1649
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,010
about how Adam is doing and his
journey with Linux and

1650
01:49:26,010 --> 01:49:27,480
podcasting, go podcasting.

1651
01:49:27,540 --> 01:49:33,360
Go podcasting. Well, podcast.
Linux is still kind of in and

1652
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:36,570
please don't email me. Linux is
still kind of incompatible with

1653
01:49:36,570 --> 01:49:39,090
the way I work with audio. Let's
just put it that way.

1654
01:49:41,850 --> 01:49:44,400
He sent us the exact same
message again so I'm thinking

1655
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:47,640
what happens he's using breeze
and he machinegun boosted. Let's

1656
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:52,590
see. I'd like I'm liking this
feature. Now.

1657
01:49:52,710 --> 01:49:59,430
This is a high quality feature,
Roy. thank you Steven B. Oh,

1658
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,570
I'll have to send you what this
looks like. It's Steven B that

1659
01:50:03,570 --> 01:50:08,010
the B is the Bitcoin symbol Hmm
Nice.

1660
01:50:08,070 --> 01:50:10,890
Oh, I see it here Oh is 1111

1661
01:50:11,940 --> 01:50:18,120
is 34 1703 curio caster and he
says I'm gonna live 3417 boost

1662
01:50:18,120 --> 01:50:21,570
in honor of bowl after bowls
first live Adam show yet and I

1663
01:50:21,570 --> 01:50:25,380
have to say the Steven V and
game, curio caster he's Oh, he's

1664
01:50:25,380 --> 01:50:27,990
on the bleeding edge of every
new feature that comes out of

1665
01:50:27,990 --> 01:50:31,110
podcasting tip one oh, he really
was helpful for that

1666
01:50:31,140 --> 01:50:34,200
even today in sovereign feeds
Roy, you've got to check out

1667
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:38,910
sovereign feeds calm, you can
literally take any podcast and

1668
01:50:38,910 --> 01:50:43,200
you can output a fully 2.0
compatible feed all the features

1669
01:50:43,200 --> 01:50:46,500
are in there. And he made it
because he added something for

1670
01:50:46,500 --> 01:50:51,090
the cross app comments. I think
you have to have the platform

1671
01:50:51,120 --> 01:50:55,920
and the method. So it's activity
pub Macedon. And I opened up

1672
01:50:56,130 --> 01:50:59,130
sovereign feeds and literally
said right there, Adam, this is

1673
01:50:59,130 --> 01:51:01,680
where you need to put this. I
mean, he's coding shit in

1674
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:05,340
personally for me. That was so
hot.

1675
01:51:05,370 --> 01:51:09,120
That idea that oh, it's good
idea.

1676
01:51:09,330 --> 01:51:10,710
That's a slam or not. But I'll
take

1677
01:51:10,740 --> 01:51:14,010
No, no, no, not a slam at all.
Oh, no, no, no. When you know

1678
01:51:14,010 --> 01:51:16,860
that your user has specific when
you're, you know, that your

1679
01:51:16,860 --> 01:51:21,000
users have specific, or when you
can anticipate as a developer

1680
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:24,930
that that a specific section of
your users are going to have

1681
01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:29,220
questions or is always the right
thing to guide them in the app

1682
01:51:29,220 --> 01:51:32,070
itself, rather than to wait for
a support request. Well, that's

1683
01:51:32,070 --> 01:51:34,920
what I'm saying. No, it wasn't a
you. That's that's exactly the

1684
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:39,840
way as far as I'm concerned now.
That I think the best apps to do

1685
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:42,240
that. It's like, Hey, I already
know that this is going to be a

1686
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:44,190
problem for us tell them in the
app.

1687
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:46,740
But it actually said, Adam, that
was the fun thing.

1688
01:51:47,220 --> 01:51:47,940
Oh,

1689
01:51:48,480 --> 01:51:50,970
it didn't just say here's where
you add them put this in here.

1690
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:51,840
Okay. A

1691
01:51:52,380 --> 01:51:53,130
different story.

1692
01:51:53,790 --> 01:51:55,950
Let's see. All right. So we're
sovereign.

1693
01:51:55,950 --> 01:51:57,120
feeds.com

1694
01:51:58,830 --> 01:52:04,110
Floridian slips, give us 5000
SATs. And he says, Thanks for

1695
01:52:04,110 --> 01:52:06,540
all your work on 2.0. Can you
recommend a channel for

1696
01:52:06,540 --> 01:52:09,270
questions to be directed and
having issues with the index and

1697
01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:12,150
boosting figured out what try
with a boost to get some info?

1698
01:52:12,450 --> 01:52:15,570
Well, yeah, the channel is
podcast index dot social. So

1699
01:52:15,570 --> 01:52:16,020
interesting

1700
01:52:16,020 --> 01:52:18,510
that I'm missing some of these
booster grams.

1701
01:52:19,650 --> 01:52:24,630
Alright, well, you know, they
these are selectable so Oh,

1702
01:52:24,630 --> 01:52:27,480
right. Okay. All right. Yeah.
Yeah, they may they may not have

1703
01:52:27,480 --> 01:52:29,100
chosen to include, or

1704
01:52:29,130 --> 01:52:31,140
that's what I'm always worried
about. Since this is just a

1705
01:52:31,140 --> 01:52:34,770
monitor 1% split. I'm always
worried that that's just not

1706
01:52:34,770 --> 01:52:35,370
getting through.

1707
01:52:36,630 --> 01:52:39,090
I think it depends on the app
that it comes through. Because I

1708
01:52:39,090 --> 01:52:42,630
can cast a magic if you boost.
It comes up and you can choose

1709
01:52:42,900 --> 01:52:45,570
who you want to boost and one of
the sections selections is

1710
01:52:45,570 --> 01:52:49,500
everyone. Yeah, but mostly you
have that think, like bright

1711
01:52:49,500 --> 01:52:51,960
with Breeze if you boost it just
goes to everybody always.

1712
01:52:51,990 --> 01:52:55,860
I actually don't like that
feature anymore. What? I'd like

1713
01:52:55,860 --> 01:52:58,830
everyone in it, I'd like
everyone. It's so kind of rude.

1714
01:52:58,830 --> 01:53:03,210
It's like I'm excluding someone
it was intended to do to give

1715
01:53:03,210 --> 01:53:06,330
someone an extra boost, which I
don't think it's used for.

1716
01:53:07,650 --> 01:53:10,080
Oh, you mean like it should
always go to everybody? Like

1717
01:53:10,110 --> 01:53:11,850
that's my personal feeling?
Yeah.

1718
01:53:12,060 --> 01:53:16,320
Yeah. Can't be a good coder is
gonna code.

1719
01:53:16,770 --> 01:53:19,650
That's right. That's right.
That's just why I use breeze.

1720
01:53:20,340 --> 01:53:24,240
Because I can, you can't choose
who you send it to. And you can

1721
01:53:24,240 --> 01:53:26,400
just be a low life and send 30
SATs.

1722
01:53:29,370 --> 01:53:36,270
We're enabling monetizing
trolls. Anonymous through us and

1723
01:53:36,270 --> 01:53:39,300
it's 10,000 SAS through cast
ematic and he just says free

1724
01:53:39,300 --> 01:53:41,850
media. Yay. free media.

1725
01:53:42,270 --> 01:53:44,820
Now, did you not? Oh, no, that's
a different one. I'm sorry. Yes.

1726
01:53:44,820 --> 01:53:47,100
Got it. 10,000 Nice. Thank you.

1727
01:53:47,670 --> 01:53:51,510
Bill Prague. Since 3000. Sets
the pod friend and he says don't

1728
01:53:51,510 --> 01:54:00,930
be a maxi go podcasting. Podcast
see dubs 3333. Through the boost

1729
01:54:00,930 --> 01:54:07,230
CLI shell script, nice. A he's
see. He sent a link.

1730
01:54:07,650 --> 01:54:10,830
And that definitely didn't go to
me. That's a direct key send I

1731
01:54:10,830 --> 01:54:11,250
think.

1732
01:54:12,090 --> 01:54:16,260
Okay, so he sent he sent a link
and this is a link to his to the

1733
01:54:16,260 --> 01:54:19,740
boost bots GitHub repo, where
they're working on all the

1734
01:54:19,740 --> 01:54:24,840
different connectors to cool to
send boost to IRC and Mastodon

1735
01:54:24,870 --> 01:54:28,590
Oh, nice. Yeah, he said we're
working on matrix next.

1736
01:54:28,650 --> 01:54:31,320
Well, you hear that Roy matrix?
Are you still you guys still

1737
01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:32,040
working on that?

1738
01:54:32,970 --> 01:54:33,900
On the back burner?

1739
01:54:35,190 --> 01:54:39,540
Everything I say to Roy is Are
you alright, Roy? Do you okay?

1740
01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:43,920
I'm good. That good? Okay, a
lot. A lot of boosts like

1741
01:54:46,950 --> 01:54:51,510
what do you want to leave? No.
Okay. This is the best part of

1742
01:54:51,510 --> 01:54:52,050
the show.

1743
01:54:53,370 --> 01:54:58,860
Martin Martin from pod friend.
We have a series of C 100 100.

1744
01:54:59,340 --> 01:55:01,980
Oh, he's definitely Testing.
Yeah, he's doing some tests

1745
01:55:01,980 --> 01:55:05,490
100 100 100 I'm just giving them
credit. Um, quick credit for

1746
01:55:05,490 --> 01:55:08,640
these. It's like 1000 SATs of
boost CQ,

1747
01:55:08,640 --> 01:55:09,720
Mr. 100 they

1748
01:55:11,309 --> 01:55:15,299
have an extra 100 from row from
Roy. And that was all from

1749
01:55:15,299 --> 01:55:17,669
Martin doing testing and then we
got floating slips again with

1750
01:55:17,669 --> 01:55:20,969
500 SATs and he says testing
your splits. See this is exactly

1751
01:55:20,969 --> 01:55:23,669
the way you fund open source
projects. Yes through testing

1752
01:55:23,669 --> 01:55:24,779
things testing things with

1753
01:55:24,780 --> 01:55:27,690
money is a beautiful I would add
there's another t shirt

1754
01:55:27,810 --> 01:55:30,720
podcasting. 2.0 we test shit
with money.

1755
01:55:30,990 --> 01:55:39,570
Yeah, I like it. No, test net is
for wet. Everything. Everything

1756
01:55:39,570 --> 01:55:45,960
is everywhere. Gary Arntz in his
3141 sets. And he says that's to

1757
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:48,390
fountain and he says just
returning the love today who is

1758
01:55:48,390 --> 01:55:52,020
still remains the only person
who has boosted my podcast. Gary

1759
01:55:52,020 --> 01:55:55,680
aren't everything everywhere
daily. Oh, how you doing this

1760
01:55:55,680 --> 01:55:59,310
year? We know Gary. And the
number one booster assists

1761
01:55:59,310 --> 01:55:59,670
right? I

1762
01:55:59,670 --> 01:56:02,790
mean, you should you should have
a little badge next to your name

1763
01:56:02,790 --> 01:56:04,320
on the master doll. I'm gonna do
that.

1764
01:56:04,980 --> 01:56:06,360
Number one booster. That's
right.

1765
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:08,130
Wow, that was gay.

1766
01:56:08,250 --> 01:56:13,260
Oh, thanks. Comic Strip blogger
gave us he's the delimiter is

1767
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:16,140
end of end of donation segment
almost

1768
01:56:16,590 --> 01:56:20,910
10,033 cents through pod friend
and he says howdy David AC. I

1769
01:56:20,910 --> 01:56:23,370
hope you are not invaded by
Russia yet like my Slavic

1770
01:56:23,370 --> 01:56:27,480
brothers in Ukraine are. You're
welcome to listen to our podcast

1771
01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:32,550
about AI called AI cooking read
by former famous actor and four

1772
01:56:32,550 --> 01:56:35,880
pub owner Gregory William
Forsythe foreman. Just type in

1773
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:39,180
your web browser or any podcast
app AI cooking. Yo

1774
01:56:39,210 --> 01:56:44,640
Yo just boost comics blogger
gets it man. He gets it. Yeah,

1775
01:56:44,670 --> 01:56:47,940
he's sending Sass to every
single podcast with his message

1776
01:56:47,970 --> 01:56:49,590
and he's getting it out there. I
love it.

1777
01:56:50,310 --> 01:56:52,890
We get really good or bad. It's
like one o'clock in the morning.

1778
01:56:53,010 --> 01:56:53,820
And we're almost done.

1779
01:56:54,930 --> 01:56:57,150
And I actually want to go out

1780
01:56:58,200 --> 01:57:03,120
to your party or Roy, you got in
party? Yeah. I don't know. I'm

1781
01:57:03,120 --> 01:57:06,930
just asking. I don't know. I
mean, I somehow whenever I

1782
01:57:06,930 --> 01:57:09,390
envision you I just don't
envision you as a party guy.

1783
01:57:10,470 --> 01:57:12,060
Depends how you define a party.

1784
01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:15,900
Well, I'm coming to Israel. So
here's just fun. That's right.

1785
01:57:15,900 --> 01:57:19,710
You're gonna show me your party.
I can't wait. I want my favorite

1786
01:57:19,710 --> 01:57:25,320
Roy story is when we're in Miami
and Roy can't get a can't get an

1787
01:57:25,350 --> 01:57:26,700
Uber and he thought

1788
01:57:26,700 --> 01:57:29,610
his card his card failed his
credit card. thing. Yeah.

1789
01:57:29,970 --> 01:57:35,970
Card failed. So then Roy gets on
to Brees boss, a boss like an

1790
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:41,910
Uber card, a gift card through
bit. Refill a bit refill and

1791
01:57:41,940 --> 01:57:45,420
Ubers and Ubers himself out of
there in like five minutes

1792
01:57:45,450 --> 01:57:47,760
that we were slick. It was very
slick. Yeah.

1793
01:57:50,190 --> 01:57:53,220
Okay, so we got some monthly
donors here. Just to wrap it up.

1794
01:57:53,310 --> 01:57:58,680
We got pod news at $50 Keith
Gibson, in $50. Dwayne Goldie at

1795
01:57:58,680 --> 01:58:04,560
$8 Paul Erskine at $11.14 Miko
Goggin at $5 Charles current at

1796
01:58:04,560 --> 01:58:10,080
$5 Christopher Raymer at $10
Sean McCune at $20 cone

1797
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:15,420
glotzbach at $5 James Sullivan
at $10.02 coats at $6.66 and

1798
01:58:15,420 --> 01:58:18,390
Jordan dunville at $10 That
wraps up our group

1799
01:58:18,450 --> 01:58:21,630
in the last boost that K booster
grams that came in during the

1800
01:58:21,630 --> 01:58:27,270
show. Cost peelings. I'm sorry
sir Spencer sent us to boost

1801
01:58:27,300 --> 01:58:33,180
33,369 SATs each with a
duplicate message so I don't

1802
01:58:33,180 --> 01:58:35,700
know if he meant to do that but
it was no I did because they

1803
01:58:35,700 --> 01:58:39,060
were an hour apart. Thank you
for helping us make podcasting

1804
01:58:39,060 --> 01:58:42,030
history shout out to rare
encounter with Abel Kirby and

1805
01:58:42,030 --> 01:58:45,960
cold acid who also implemented
Live This Week go podcasting

1806
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:49,920
love from Sir Spencer Dame
DeLorean and bowl of after bow.

1807
01:58:52,920 --> 01:58:56,490
We love that. Nice. I love that.
Thank you sir Spencer, thank you

1808
01:58:56,490 --> 01:58:58,980
so much for doing that. That was
just that was just beautiful.

1809
01:58:58,980 --> 01:59:03,660
Roy Have you got to get on? You
got to get heli pad man. Okay,

1810
01:59:03,690 --> 01:59:04,350
on your own bro.

1811
01:59:04,890 --> 01:59:09,480
Yeah, but I didn't have to start
doing a podcast, right? I want

1812
01:59:09,480 --> 01:59:10,590
to say who's coming?

1813
01:59:10,620 --> 01:59:11,910
I'll be your first guest.

1814
01:59:11,940 --> 01:59:13,680
I like to dust boots. That's
boots.

1815
01:59:15,030 --> 01:59:19,080
But you know, Roy, I have to say
and I want I want to thank you

1816
01:59:19,080 --> 01:59:24,030
so much. Really? Thank you for
for your trust in the project.

1817
01:59:24,030 --> 01:59:27,420
Thank you for your dedication.
Your team as well even though we

1818
01:59:27,420 --> 01:59:28,380
know you do everything

1819
01:59:29,190 --> 01:59:35,220
come on. I don't I don't do
anything that that my team is

1820
01:59:35,220 --> 01:59:38,430
doing all the job. I'm just
going on podcast talking about

1821
01:59:38,430 --> 01:59:43,710
it. But it really shouldn't be
me thanking you guys like first

1822
01:59:43,710 --> 01:59:49,590
you're my two favorite people in
the whole world. Amazing. Dave

1823
01:59:49,590 --> 01:59:51,960
is amazing. I don't know if
everyone knows how amazing

1824
01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:52,530
Davies I

1825
01:59:52,530 --> 01:59:58,200
do. I do. I'm raising my hand. I
know how amazing Dave is. He's

1826
01:59:58,260 --> 02:00:00,330
he says yes, I mean Eazy

1827
02:00:00,540 --> 02:00:04,140
E making me blush man. And
you're an inspiration, Adam

1828
02:00:04,170 --> 02:00:05,100
really? Like?

1829
02:00:05,910 --> 02:00:11,280
Well, thank you. You still you,
you put your business on the

1830
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:14,130
line for this. And that's and
that's appreciated and you are a

1831
02:00:14,130 --> 02:00:17,550
confidant of mine because you're
the one that always takes the

1832
02:00:17,550 --> 02:00:21,780
time to explain this shit when
I'm like what is going on? And

1833
02:00:22,860 --> 02:00:26,130
Android likes to gossip like me,
I think I think we share that he

1834
02:00:26,130 --> 02:00:30,180
pretends that we don't do it. We
gossip about everybody. We have

1835
02:00:30,180 --> 02:00:33,210
our little tea session. Girl
chat. Yeah. Oh, yeah,

1836
02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:37,440
definitely. Part of the process.
But what is but what is

1837
02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:42,270
happening here is way beyond
anything I could have imagined.

1838
02:00:42,270 --> 02:00:45,030
You know, we took a concept of
value for value concept, and we

1839
02:00:45,030 --> 02:00:50,280
translated it. And this that's
happening now, that took me 10

1840
02:00:50,280 --> 02:00:54,510
years to get that going with
PayPal, you know, even to some

1841
02:00:54,510 --> 02:00:57,720
degree like that the immediacy,
everything that's happening, it

1842
02:00:57,720 --> 02:01:07,020
is so exhilarating. So exciting.
And I think this, to me, this is

1843
02:01:07,020 --> 02:01:10,650
the onboarding that we need. At
this moment. It is because

1844
02:01:10,890 --> 02:01:14,640
people understand value when
they do it. They understand

1845
02:01:14,640 --> 02:01:20,640
feeling good about the value. It
feels incredibly good. And and I

1846
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:24,780
did with my wife, we started a
podcast career in the keeper, re

1847
02:01:24,780 --> 02:01:28,680
all only podcasting 2.0 I'd
never submitted it anywhere else

1848
02:01:28,710 --> 02:01:33,360
only into the index, self, self
hosted everything. You know,

1849
02:01:33,780 --> 02:01:38,820
we're running the node at home.
And within 30 minutes of putting

1850
02:01:38,820 --> 02:01:43,650
our first episode out, the joy
of just little bits of SAT

1851
02:01:43,650 --> 02:01:48,960
streaming in was was like, like
20 years ago, we started

1852
02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:55,260
podcasting. It is so cool.
Amazing, really is and

1853
02:01:55,380 --> 02:01:57,870
appreciate everything you're
doing. And we look forward to

1854
02:01:58,500 --> 02:02:04,830
hopefully using your LSP
offerings in the future. Yeah,

1855
02:02:05,160 --> 02:02:09,570
yeah, we will let the Our
purpose is to spread this joy,

1856
02:02:09,630 --> 02:02:15,090
right? It doesn't need to be
only in like, the breeze app or

1857
02:02:15,090 --> 02:02:18,450
the fountain app needs to be
everywhere in every podcasting

1858
02:02:18,450 --> 02:02:22,800
app. And part of our job is to
find the right ways to do that.

1859
02:02:24,240 --> 02:02:28,860
Also, yeah, in a safe way, and I
love that I love that you're so

1860
02:02:28,860 --> 02:02:32,490
committed to the cause, you
know, to noncustodial and making

1861
02:02:32,490 --> 02:02:36,420
all that stuff work in in a in a
true in a true way.

1862
02:02:36,510 --> 02:02:41,040
Yeah, baby, you don't have a
peer to peer baby. Like, that's

1863
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:41,670
what we need.

1864
02:02:42,179 --> 02:02:44,849
And I always appreciate talking
to you. And it was this was, you

1865
02:02:44,849 --> 02:02:49,169
know, no exception being on the
show. Because you you do help us

1866
02:02:49,169 --> 02:02:54,089
think you really do you put us
in in a good frame of mind.

1867
02:02:54,809 --> 02:02:56,969
You're pretty you're pretty
unique that way, my brother,

1868
02:02:56,999 --> 02:03:01,349
you're pretty unique that way.
Yes. You can put that on a t

1869
02:03:01,349 --> 02:03:02,999
shirt. My name is Roy. I'm
unique.

1870
02:03:03,570 --> 02:03:05,460
i People think yes.

1871
02:03:05,550 --> 02:03:09,150
Do you do? You do you do?
Alright, Dave, you got to get

1872
02:03:09,150 --> 02:03:10,590
back to the to the day job. I

1873
02:03:10,590 --> 02:03:11,850
guess. That's it.

1874
02:03:11,880 --> 02:03:14,370
They mad at you again, because
you're always late on Friday.

1875
02:03:14,850 --> 02:03:17,370
No, no, I think they think
you've taken a lover.

1876
02:03:19,050 --> 02:03:22,620
Now I'm working like working
like 50 to 60 hours a week right

1877
02:03:22,620 --> 02:03:22,800
now.

1878
02:03:23,400 --> 02:03:26,490
I'm broke. I'm say did what cuz
tax season is coming up again.

1879
02:03:26,760 --> 02:03:30,480
Yeah, yeah, it's just crazy.
Alright, that's it for the board

1880
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:34,560
meeting. Roy, thank you so much.
You know, we'll we'll have you

1881
02:03:34,560 --> 02:03:37,320
on again soon. whenever,
whenever you're ready. Feel free

1882
02:03:37,320 --> 02:03:43,260
to abuse us. We love it. I thank
you guys. Thank you very much,

1883
02:03:43,260 --> 02:03:45,720
Roy. We'll be back next week
with another board meeting of

1884
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,510
podcasting. 2.0 Take care
everybody. We'll see you then.

1885
02:04:05,250 --> 02:04:09,810
You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts

1886
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:12,360
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