podcasting 2.0 for January 14 2020, to Episode 69 on the
board you know what to do and we're gonna talk about Hello,
everybody. Welcome to a bigger board meeting of podcasting.
2.0. Since we missed one last week, apologies for that.
Everything going on and podcast index.org the podcast namespace
and of course, the action over at podcast index dot social. I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama, the man who decides just how we do it live my friend
on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. James Jones
being off last week and listen, the show, like totally screwed
me up. I had no idea what day it was.
Well, to be honest, it was very, very hard for me to I mean, I
talked to you about I didn't just make any decision to cancel
the board meeting. I'm like, I got to talk to Dave about this.
Yeah. And when a women executive decision about that from the the
podcasting 2.0 broadcast committee,
yes. Broadcast committee. Yes. The Executive Decision was made
in a smoky back room as these things usually do. And yeah, cuz
Joe had reached out to me a week before he said, Hey, man, we got
we got to do a podcast together so much crazy world. We gotta
talk about stuff. I'm like, Yeah, anytime, man. And then he
pinged me on on Wednesday, he says, Hey, Becky, come in
tomorrow said no, I do the show the show live. And they said,
Okay, how about Friday? So I said, Well, that's podcasting,
too. When I got to talk to Dave, man, I said, I'll get back to
you tonight. And we talked.
And I said, tell Joe, he can wait. You
did and I had to and I had to beg and say, Listen, man, I can
make I can make it worthwhile for us. I couldn't make it worth
our while. I really can
get you is it was a good appearance.
Well, I'd like to tell you, I'd like to share with everybody
what came out of it. In in some general terms,
was scammed the open letter to Spotify panned about 270
scientists, I didn't see your name. So
that's not what I meant. Something else something else
came out of it, which I'm going to discuss in general terms
because nothing is in stone, but I think it's important. Everyone
knows at least what's going on. You agree?
I agree. Okay.
So apparently, after I was talking Bitcoin with Joe, which
is always so fun on Twitter, yeah, you get all these people.
Hey, man, you know, was talking about you put each down, man.
You're boiling the sea.
Exactly. And what and my standard answer is, Hey, man,
we're an open protocol where all the eath developers, where are
they? So there you go. Apparently, Sunday night, there
was a 10 fold increase in signups to companies that
onboard people onto Bitcoin, where you can buy and sell
Bitcoin. And this was, from what I understand it was noticeable
across the industry. And one of these big companies reached out
to me and said, Can we talk?
And clearly CNN must have mentioned Bitcoin? Yeah.
No, I think the industry also collectively went Oh, yeah,
it's, they all know if that happens on a Sunday, which is
supposed to be one of their slower days, then either someone
was talking about one of the companies or about Bitcoin in
general, some big show, and then they all agreed that had to be
Rogan. So one of them reached out to me and had a very
interesting proposal. And the short of it is, they would like
to onboard any podcasting 2.0 value for value listeners, they
will take the listeners fee out and send it directly into the
wallets. So even an even before your, if it's a new person,
their KYC is all taken care of. And they've done the checking on
who's who. But here's the kicker. They actually want to
and, you know, it came out right away. This is something they do
for new customers anyway, but they would like to put 10,000
SATs or so into every single new wallet of every customer they
onboard. That's beautiful. It's to me is like holy crap. Now
people are incentivized to talk about it. Because if I got 1000
people listening to my show, I'm going to try and send 1000
people to send me $5.
That's the whole sign up. Like what he called reciprocity did
like you see him all doing it, where it's like strike and Cash
App, you sign up. Tell your buddy to come? Yep, sign up, and
then I'll give you you'll get five bucks and he'll get five
bucks. Yeah, yeah. But they're
talking about doing the deep integration. So you could also
do it directly from the podcast apps through some API wizardry
and I think we're already having a meeting next week.
Yeah, last I saw it was Monday, I think, yeah, we're supposed to
have a talk with that. That's so nice, because that's what we've
been wanting to happen is somebody else, too. Because the
KYC stuff is just so hard. You can't you got to be a bank, or
something to really Yeah.
And you have to do that. Yeah. Cuz you have to have the
information stored properly. And you have to have processes and
procedures and all this stuff. And I'm pretty sure that they'd
be more than willing. Because you know, what's nice about this
is also if we can do it with podcasters. When we get our, our
wallets all running the podcast wallet, it's a great way for
podcasters to take their their earnings in Bitcoin and shuttle
it right out into their bank account into Fiat. Beautiful
because it works both ways.
So perfect. Yeah, that that really is the missing piece that
the onboard off board has been the missing pieces. Day one.
It's the hardest part. It's the hardest part two, and it's a
reputable companies, a company that people have heard of. And
what we'll see, I'm very I'm very jacked about that.
It's great timing too, because lightning just continues to
become more just industry implementations are emerging
like Asha Kashia. Yeah, that's fantastic. And it puts it just
puts it into the monster is becoming there was always fear
that it would just become like, let me let me try to figure out
what I'm trying to say here. As, as you go through and try to
promote this, this thing that can solve this problem we're
trying to solve yet sort of plant your flag on something.
And we planted the flag on lightning, but then there's
always the fear that lightning is not going to pan out right in
the industrial move to in a different direction. But now, I
mean, it doesn't take very many dominoes to fall before. It just
becomes like a snowball rolling down the hill. And as you know,
like that's what's happening.
As you know, I Adam curry. I picked a hit.
You did.
That's, that's my one true talent. I have skills. But
that's my talent. I can pick the Higgs. That's right. Everybody
picking the hit. And since the dawn of podcasting.
Yeah, it's beautiful. It's perfect timing.
It is in more ways than one, you know, Gateway Pundit, which is a
pretty big blog. news site really is not even a blog. They
got banned from PayPal. Last week. Yeah. I heard that that
kind of shook people up. But it is, yeah, that kind of shook
people up. And I was thinking, I had a nice chat with this kid in
New York. And I say, kid 31 I get this a kid. And he has a
little network of eight podcasts and the podcasters are all
rabbis. But they're but they're, you know, they're not. They're
not like, you know, spouting off some Hebrew jargon. You know,
they're, they're, it's more like, like a pastor kind of
preacher, you know, real life stories. And it's some crazy to
show titles like dead Jews and stuff. It's. So it's very, it's
supposedly very funny, a lot of the stuff they're doing. And he
called me up, Roy actually hooked me up with him. And he
said, I think it's soul shopped, I think is the is the soul
shopped with a T. And, and he said, I just talked to him. And
so we're talking about value for value. And I was like, and all
of a sudden, it dawned on me how a small network because this,
this is not a guy trying to be a podcast network, join my
network, I'll get advertising for you all this now. He's, he's
a creative guys. He has a media company with eight properties.
That's the way I view him. And I said, Well, if you do value for
value, here's the cool thing with the splits, you can take a
network fee. I never really thought about it that way. But
it makes so much sense. And so everybody gets there. And you
can cut your individual deals with the with your talent, and
your and your creators. And then you just stick all that
information into your value block. And there's always a
network fee. Maybe the network takes 40% or 30%. I don't know.
Because he has investors. And I say, you know, the one thing
I've seen pan out before is when you show investors, you hold up
your phone, you show a rolling a scrolling by tally of SATs
coming in for people listening to your shows. Even though it's
50 SATs 100 SATs may be a boost here there. It's very powerful,
because investment investors are always looking for put a penny
and get $1 out now what we're showing them is put $1 and get a
penny out at the moment. But the mechanism but they see the
mechanism working in this way. So you are actually making money
you just need to scale and and the thing and the great thing
about this is the scaling is not in the amount of the number the
size of the audience is how you talk to the audience and what
your ask is. And a reminder, if you treat value for value as
tips, you're going to get tips. Okay? So if you say, hey, tip
us, you're going to get tips. If you say this is valuable, is it
valuable to you send us what value you think it is, you'll
see a very different result.
Can I talk about a psychological component of this real quick?
It's all
psychology, please. And you are psychology major? No, no, not
philosophy. Same thing. It's the same general area. It starts
with a PS or something.
I always wanted to be a psycho history major that we know that
but that's science fiction. That's not real. That's not
real. But so the psychology of this is, and I was listening to
no agenda the other day. And I hear you. Yes. I hear cutting
through the noise gate. Every now and then. Okay. And it
reminds me of another podcast that I've listened to for years
security now. Yes, yes. Security now. During that show, Steve
Gibson, the host has it set up to where as it wired to where
anytime somebody buys a copy of his software. I'm paying. It has
a yabba dabba doo that goes off in the end, you can hear it in
the background every time somebody but it becomes a little
bit of gamification where people try to try to signal it during
the live stream so Oh, yeah, hear themselves in the booth.
This is a fantastic idea. Everybody that does that does
this everybody that does booster grams if they live stream
especially but even if they don't, should have the pew pew
audible. I have it on the board.
I have it on right now as we speak for that very reason.
Absolutely.
I was getting the beats Yeah, I was
getting all kinds of messages from people about hearing it on
no agenda, but also a curry curry in the keeper it was going
off like crazy. And and I have it on now because you know that
Chad F is gonna you know, or somewhere dreads someone's going
to try and boost the grandmas I haven't I haven't piped in just
in case. It's really cool. It's that's entirely is a great
psychology.
Especially if you live stream. That's then then you're talking
about you know that that's that's the best the dopamine
hit. It comes back. And speaking of.
Yes, speaking of the
live item,
now do you want to get the star Do you want to bring in our
guests so they can participate in this? Because this is a very
big topic. It bleeds into pod Yang it bleeds into creating
standards. A whole whole bunch of things surrounding this.
Yeah, the guests have been out there in the lobby, just drink
it still coffee for a while. I'm gonna bring them in. Yeah, we
should. We'd like to welcome to the board meeting once again.
Back for more. Alberto patella and Ben Richardson from Rs.
s.com. Gentlemen, Hey, guys, I not only the co founders of one
of the leading hosting providers for podcast necessities, all in
on podcasting. 2.0. But also, along with Buzzsprout are one of
our top supporters of the entire project. So we're highly
appreciative of everything you've done to support
everything that's going on here. Happy to do it. Happy to do it.
Yeah, I wanted I was thinking about getting you guys back on.
I was talking to you, Ben offline about how you've been
doing some stuff with, you know, outside the US. And also we
haven't talked to you search, I've put in some tags and
search. Can you before we start talking about lost stuff? I
mean, can you kind of go over what you've done in the Spanish
speaking market, because I think I've been thinking a lot about
this lately. And since or I was listening to Pineland yesterday,
Sam Sethi talked about India. And the non you know, non
English speaking podcasting doesn't get a lot of us press,
especially because the markets is very big Marcus, can you kind
of go over what you've done?
Yeah, absolutely. Just to start off, let me say, if we ever went
to India, we would be huge, because RSS is a political
party. They're kind of
why not do both do both run the country and run the podcasting
infrastructure.
When I used to tweet stuff on our Twitter handle our at RSS, I
would get like 2 million, 3 million views of what it was. It
wasn't it was insane. And then they would write back so um, but
we are highly focused on Latin America and especially Mexico.
We because Alberto and I both speak Spanish, we have had an
affinity towards our early adopting customers down there.
And it turns out that they're just great, great people and
partners. So we've really tried to augment the efforts that
they're making to grow the podcasting space down there. And
so we've we've been intentionally positioned to have
international presences. But in particular, within the Spanish
speaking markets in Mexico, with our customer support is, is all
bilingual. All of our, all of our knowledge base is in three
languages. Ah,
and we have a booster gram.
And we've been in fact, we just went down to Mexico in October.
And we're working directly there with the creators to develop
their presence within that market where we've got an
attorney down there helping us kind of navigate the legal
system that oh my god,
hey, wait a minute, you know, you know, Ben, Ben, you are so
into the Spanish language, you even have emulated the Mexican
radio microphone sound, it's really uncanny how good let me
know I'm just messing with you know, messing with this is
really exciting. That's, that's huge. Who else is in the market
who's who's competing with this, that'd
be Isaac's right. And they are, they might be your competitor.
So they're based there.
They're out of Spain. And they do have a tremendously large
catalogue of Spanish language podcasts. But I don't see a
whole lot of movement from them in Latin America. And I know,
they just took a bunch of VC funding, but we haven't seen it
deployed in in any way. A cast is down there. They've got an
eight person office, but we haven't really seen new traction
with them. And then Spotify is down there. And they haven't,
that I've seen done too much either. And then there's another
one that we've worked with that I can't say the name that has
tried to get down there and they just can't they can't make it
work their internationalization approaches. Is COVID really kind
of messed them up.
Is the Spanish speaking market are a lot the largest part of
your customer base at this point?
Because no, no, it's it's, it's very useful just starting, you
know, for downloads, it's pretty large, because we have some of
the bigger podcasters in Mexico in particular. And we're looking
to expand that these guys are all very well connected to each
other. And so we're, we're, we're actively mining those
relationships, we're building our own. We're standing up a
team down there. I mean, we've got a lot going on, on down
there. And we loved we our visit to Mexico was eye opening in
many respects. We invested in a podcasting studio down there. I
mean, we've got just a lot going on.
Yesterday at high rollers, man, big ballers
know like to get on this pillowtop Yes, exactly. Yes, it
was on my mind. Thank you, blueberry for your 2112 your
rush boost. And nice.
Yes. Go ahead.
Yeah, I was saying that. It's true that we do have a unique
value proposition there compared to competitors. And the
proposition is simple. Ben and I, so the founders, they we go
there on the field, and we meet creators. And it was a
highlight, I would say of last year for us to after years
building a product meeting the people that use it. We were on
our rooftop terrace in the neighborhood, which is
comparable to Soho, right of Mexico City, meeting creators,
we podcaster pitching literally their podcast, there was this
person that is the best expert in Mexico about Dracula, to
translate. And he met their relatives. He was pitching the
podcast because now we have a podcast studio so we can produce
forecasts, and we can promote them. And it was super exciting,
especially from summer lag like me over the past two years as
building tech companies. Right? Do we, you know, they're
estimated a lot to be lost. And we think that, that we're very
excited for what has yet to come.
Do you think that's what it was was mostly like how you're able
to get better traction there, maybe versus others that you're
focusing on the podcaster. First, instead of the tech side
of things or the business side of things, you're just going
sort of straight to the talent if it were?
Well, I mean, I can speak to what how this strategy actually
developed there is we because I grew up on the border with
Mexico. So I mean, I was highly tuned in to who was joining our
platform early on. He saw family
in Mexico too. Yes. And part of my great grandfather, yeah.
Jack, Jack Ben here, just because Ben, when we speak in
English, he speaks Italian he speaks Spanish, but when he
speaks Spanish, you know maybe in a meeting with a video call
it you know, it's Well, but when I came to Mexico the first
night, we were having dinner, and he spoke Mexican with a
Mexican accent. I said, how, how come and he just switched the,
you know, the the brain chip in the brain hurt him like it was
like Mexican
Unbeliev. Anyway, sorry,
sorry, man, it was it was because I spent two hours on a
plane hearing only Spanish. That's what it takes to kind of
gear me up. But so how the strategy developed there, oh, by
the way, my great grandfather was in front of a firing squad
in Mexico at one point in time, and it was saved at the last
second.
Wow, that's bragging rights.
But in Mexico, so I was highly tuned in to what was joining
down there that I was watching the downloads, and we sought to
grow that market. So we did an initial partnership with that
podcast. And we did not see any return on our time investment on
our spot investment on our on anything. And so we thought,
okay, Mexico's not going to be a traditional sort of market for
us. But we love Mexico, we want to be in Mexico. So let's
explore other ways to, to grow down there. And the content side
was where we really felt like, Okay, this is the right strategy
for us, our company, and the people that we are establishing
relationships with so nine how it went there?
Nice. Okay, I wonder how value for value would work in Mexico?
Yeah. Is there a Bitcoin
or Bitcoin culture there?
So we have talked about it fairly frequently with some of
our more kind of bleeding edge sort of people, you know, the
younger generation especially, and we haven't gotten a lot of
positive feedback. We haven't gotten any negative feedback.
It's just a matter of educating, educating the user down there
but you know, it's it's there's there are different socio
economic realities that would help you're using
cryptocurrency, just like we see in Africa, for instance. Yeah,
but remittance payments. Yeah, remittance payments and things
like that. I mean, it how about
this watch on would they would they be interested in in
offering to their users 10,000 Satoshis. To send to them?
You know, I'll be honest, I was telling how Bear thought either
this week or last week, I said, you know, there's got to be some
cryptocurrency out there that's wanting to seed some sort of
marketplace or innovators, so as to increase adoption. And then I
know that there's like guys in the eath market that throw away
ether to try to make them more valuable or rippled. Has this
like 800 million. Rip. Yeah. And so I thought, man, it would be
awesome if one of those guys would come in and see the
industry to kind of kickstart things. And it sounds like
that's exactly what you guys are talking about. Yeah, I think
that's super exciting. Yeah.
Okay. Yay, go team.
So we talk about education process, you know, yeah,
well, that's what you that's a big part of what hosting
companies traditionally have done. And, and I think, the more
I look at where we're at now, where we're at a year and a half
into a 2.0, you can see that there's still hosting companies
of significant size, who have not modernized their own
thinking internally, in preparing for anything, really,
for any type of new innovation in in our future. And I think
that just kind of letting it pass them by is odd to see.
Yeah, you know, I count ourselves lucky that we came in
at the right time. You know, there's that Innovators Dilemma,
you know, the Clayton Christian thing, and we're luckily not the
incumbents in this regard. And the tech stack that I'll bet
those building within our company is, I mean, just cutting
edge world class, our tech, technological debt, our tech
debt is super low. Because we've kind of led from that from the
beginning. But whereas these incumbents, these old, or
heritage players, I think James called them these heritage
players just are, you know, it takes a lot of effort to not
accumulate that tech debt. And so we're just starting at a
better place. But yeah, it's, uh, I count ourselves lucky.
So, to bring it back to to a podcasting 2.0. Look, what do
you what do you see as any of the namespace elements or any of
the new features that are there any of those that seem to be
taking some traction in Mexico or in the
stand anywhere, anywhere? Yeah. Yeah.
Maybe you can. Maybe you seen in your metrics, anything?
Yeah. So chapters are increasing, increasing the
adopted? Still, it's not it's a very small percentage. I can
give you a number. It's just 1% of our episodes that have some
kind of chapters. Some of them seem to be test seven then. And
I guess that the whole problem there is that we really need
more apps, maybe one of the major player supporting them
that that's really worked with the local chapters, but chapter
is definitely one of the most interesting. And then Ben and I
have great expectations for the location tag. It's very
exciting, okay. And maybe then you want to build on that?
Well, I just, I just see, you know, emerging markets, they
have different profiles on the media side as well. In Mexico,
for instance, has a high amount of radio involvement much higher
than the US. But that's going to shift it everything's going to
go as the US market is gone. And getting a location tag into the
podcast that that are starting to develop down there is going
to allow people to have a different expectation of their
of their podcasting platform. So if you're in northern Mexico,
northern Mexico is different than southern Mexico, and
Eastern is different than Western Central is different
than everywhere. So localising, we see a lot of promise in going
to the traditional media outlets, and saying, Come on
over bring these sorts of content that bring this type of
content into a podcasting type media, and let's let's target or
let's help your listeners find you. Whereas currently there
it's just kind of like throw it all out there and hope that you
know, your people find you this is gonna we're gonna help people
find the right content that they're looking for and and
have a question in your in your education of podcasters. Do you
talk about how do you talk about how the podcaster can use their
influence over the audience to help adopt new things and try
new things? And do you? Do you kind of press that that this is
this is how new feeds like, even just with chapters?
Yeah, I mean, transcript attractors is a good example.
And I'll bet if I can talk to transcripts in a second, I think
but chapters we have been approaching Adam, from a
perspective of you guys want to start doing this now. Because
the minute it's unlocked on a, on a major podcast app, you're
going to be at the very front. And so we've been kind of spring
loading, spring loading on their side, the expectation that they
really need to support now, in order to take advantage of the
medium that's eventually going to come if date, if one of these
big guys doesn't do it, we're gonna go out and we're gonna buy
a podcast app, and we're gonna make it happen. But it's just a
fun
way. You just say that again? Yeah, man.
Wait, where? Listen, there's only one way to really put
pressure on the market and it's from pushing, you can't pull. So
the way you push the market towards a new standard is either
through FOMO, or loss of market share. So we're gonna, we're
gonna figure that out, we're gonna get it. So
I like that. Mr. Ben.
Didn't when he said that didn't surprise me at all just knowing
you. The
reason, of course, is how we think in Texas. Hey, what does
that happen? Yours costs on.
T. Boone Pickens,
you guys, you guys might remember that Alberta is like,
he's a world class app CTO, like he has built several very like
high functioning high dollar apps. And we haven't even tapped
into his full like golf bag of, of skill sets yet in our
company. And so we're gonna unlock everything it's just a
matter of patiently and Albert has to pull the reins on me a
little bit on this stuff.
There's your FOMO right there you guys got this you sitting on
bombs man, every other every other competitor should be
worried now.
We're gonna we're gonna move to Mexico and taking care of the
apps.
Yeah, no,
I'm good. With that. Sass from Mexico is the same SATs it's all
good to
go you want to talk about transcripts?
multiling. Just taken from from the question also. They have
education. So it's, it's it's it's a mix between the adoption
of chapters transcript and and podcast index. Lupino tags,
obviously, is a mix is directly correlated to the major apps or
apps prominent podcast apps that support them. For example, a pod
verse, we met Mitch, last year in Nashville, and pod eight,
podcasting 2.0 For example, I listened both cussing to blow on
pod verse because I love chapter really loved them. And I you
know, so it's very, it's very important on the one hand, and
on the other hand, as you said, Adam is education. Now there is
a point regarding our user base, which is that in the first
couple of years of our company, due to the features we had at
the time, you know, we built it from scratch. So we we We're
taking mostly the long tail of podcasters. So people actually
started from scratch. But more and more features more and more
with time passing, we added more and more features now, right? So
now we are in a position where we can we are creating content
in our blog, even in our user interface, right? We we put a
hyperlink to podcasting index to the apps that support some of
the tags. So that's the whole point like education goes in
parallel with the number of features and the the target for
which you can either your projects or your product. So so
we are in this stage right now where we are starting to educate
on the podcasting. TurboTax.
Wow, okay. You just blew me away. I have nothing to say.
You're doing everything exactly the way I would do it. That's,
that's impressive, man. Very, very cool.
I wish that we had I wish we had a radio like, like this, like
James, who knows the current radio landscape, maybe in a
world, like a global basis? Because I wonder how much in
simple in a place like Mexico, I wonder how much radio
consumption there is versus podcast. consols got
to be off the hook. It's like, it was like 99.9% radio?
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that's what so our entry to these large
pot, our radio conglomerates that are going very well for us
is these, these are still kind of, let's see generational type
companies, where they're not necessarily looking down the
road more than two or three years. And so we're coming in,
we're saying, Guys, this isn't important to you now. But it
will be in three or four years when this is the hottest thing
since radio. So let's get you involved now. And let's let's
start working together now. And
I was I was thinking about this in the context of the live tag
when I was hearing it, you know, I was reading some discussion
about it. And I thought, Wow, this actually kind of, you know,
we there's two companies, I guess, now have been purchased
by one by Spotify, one by a big radio, holding company, they
mainly for how they handle the RSS feeds for radio shows within
feeds. And I was thinking that, you know, the LIVE TAG is a real
differentiator for radio station feeds. Where you can alert
someone is okay, this show is live, or here's the quote
unquote, podcast the replay.
I don't know what do y'all think? So since we've been
building the LIVE TAG, for the last few months, the use case in
my mind has been almost exactly this. I mean, we I think we get
into the trap of thinking about okay, we're going to get with
with a LIVE TAG, we're going to get YouTubers who are going to
start, you know, live broadcast or whatever. But
if I may, if I may, I'm sorry to interrupt the genesis of the
live tag and I this is what I was trying to figure out. How
did we get from where we were, all of a sudden to this big
discussion about what it's supposed to be? And then when
someone is out there saying, you know, we're it looks like we're
it was Mitch, actually, we're telling podcasters how they
should do it. I'm like, Okay, we've clearly gone off the
rails, in my mind that genesis of the live tag was in
combination with booster grams, similar to a super chat on
YouTube. That's how I recall it coming to life. Was there
something before that?
Well, the LIVE TAG sort of existed before that, before that
discussion. And it really, it really goes back to to Alice
gates and in a tube. Right. He wanted to he wanted to enable
that feature on no agenda two, but do it in an open standards
way. Right. Live Streaming? Yeah, live streaming, because
there's no equivalent to it. There's no equivalent to
something like that. That does it on the distributed
distribution side. So can I
just cut straight to my conclusion, then I'll shut up
for the rest of the show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I just want
to make sure we realize that we're thinking upside down. This
is it's not like, it's like like, you know, the result of
all discussion I'm seeing is now your podcast that becomes a
notification for your YouTube app or something like that.
You're upside down people who are streaming to Facebook and
YouTube or have the option of also firing up an additional
stream to na tube. That's how they do it. I'm very I talked to
moe about this all the time. He's very big into the streaming
stuff. And it's multiple streams they do it either from OBS or
they do it from stream yard. I think it is. And this is so
instead of trying to give people another place where they can be
notified about something they're doing on YouTube. Give them the
option, an additional place to stream to. That's how it should
be viewed in my mind. Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, it makes. Yeah, that's Well, that's the way I've been.
Yes. All right. But then when Spotify, this is why I brought
up sort of to ask Ben and Alberto's about the radio part
was that, yes, that that is an option for existing sort of
digital streamers. But then you also have this Spotify buying
Bushka in this entrance into for like the podcasting platforms
are trying to clearly get a foot in the door of radio. And so
it's not a big leap to think that an app like pod verse can
become a live streaming. As for for these radio stations as
well, yes. Like I can, I can envision like a sort of a radio
station out of Mexico City, just having a podcast feed, and it
may have their old shows in it. But at the top of the feed,
there's their current live stream going. And for that, I
mean,
maybe you get alerted when the morning show starts or something
like that. Yeah. Or special.
Yeah, what do you guys think about that? I think that's yes,
let me jump in here. We, we do have some experience here. And
then I'll I'll turn it over to Alberto because I think he's
probably more versed in this, but we got approached by an
online radio company down there and looked at it, and ultimately
decided not to invest or not to kind of further discussions. The
reason we did that is, there was not a lot of traction that they
were able to accomplish, it was very niche and not growing. So
from a business case, that particular that particular use
was not necessarily where I would envision a live a live
streaming tag going on the radio side. Just speaking from my
side, and I hope I don't really, you know, get you guys angry at
me. But one of the benefits to podcasting for I would say 80%
of the people that use podcasting is that it's
asynchronous. And the minute you introduce synchronicity to
podcasting, you almost out of necessity, eliminate a lot of
your listeners, now, the interaction that you're able to
get out of Live, live streaming, would probably supersede that.
And then you can create a recording, etc, etc, and maybe
get, you know, to some other model that makes sense for the
listener. But I think it's going to be more of a very specific
use case, rather than the Washko model, which is take this
content, which is delivered in real time, and then reconfigure
it, you know, massage it a little bit so that it's more
palatable to somebody listening asynchronously. And I think
that's the larger market. So for Mexico, in particular, a live
streaming, probably not going to be a function, that's going to
get you a lot of users or usability, as opposed to
listening to the morning show at night, which is where I think a
lot of a lot of that direction is going
there's, there's a third category, which I belong to,
which I've been doing for maybe 11 or 12 years. And that's where
we do the show on a live stream, and have a feedback mechanism,
in this case, a chat, but I'm equally as happy with booster
Graham's where that interaction has become a part of the show.
And what we're seeing is, there's just a segment of the
audience that shows up is just there. I mean, this has been
done with twit has done this from day one. This is a very, a
very common category, which I think is the one that to me,
personally, is the most interesting, and does make
sense. Because even the people who listen to the live stream,
they often listen to the podcast again. Now, that's just from a
separate category of podcasters perspective. And we haven't and
we've grown a pretty big audience doing that from the
radio broadcaster side. If I think that, again, I just looked
at it upside down a unique opportunity to take someone from
hey, here's the the morning show, and you can listen to it
whenever you want to, you know, if you just want to listen to
the station, right now, at this moment, use the same app.
Here's, you know, click just click here and you're good to
go. Because eventually, all radio has to get rid of their
infrastructure. So this is a transition to bringing radio
into into app. No, it's not Exactly podcasting. And then I
think ultimately, the expense of doing radio, you know, on a
linear 24 hour timescale is too overbearing, and they will all
become podcasts. So it to me, it's a transition or
transitionary thing into live shows that benefit from having a
quote unquote studio audience who's just kind of always there,
it's a minority of the people, it does not suck away from the
podcast at all. In fact, we've only grown over time.
That seems like you can meet in the middle, because you have,
yes, sort of two, you have two paradigms. Here you have the
radio paradigm, which is broadcast live only,
essentially. And then you have the podcast paradigm, which is
all time shifted to asynchronous to use Ben's work, you know, you
have these two things in the middle. And then, but then you
have this middle ground where you have an a podcast, like no
agenda, or accidental tech or coder, radio, Linux unplugged,
just many examples is more than go down the list as a lot. We're
live streaming and audio stream.
So those are podcasters, making, taking the step into towards the
middle. Yes, they got one figure out once they get the right foot
in podcasting, their left foot and live broadcasting. And then
and, and they have both. But then radio, as has been doing
the radio has been doing that for a while, like time shifting
their shows as podcasts, but they don't maintain the live in
app experience. But where's Where's a podcaster? That goes
live. They have their time shifted podcast show up in the
feed later. But they they still have an in app live experience.
Whereas radio, their live is only on a broadcast medium. And
their podcast shows. So there's this disconnect there. Whereas
like, I'll just explain, like the vision I have is in app,
let's just say in any podcast app, you, you go and you say I
want to listen to this radio show. And you go you go to the
radio show it let's just say it's me, see 100 Blah, blah,
blah, you go to that podcast. And you see all of the previous
shows just like a regular podcast that have finished for
the day. And then at the top though, you have live and you if
you want to listen live, you hit live and Listen Live. If you
don't you just consume it as a normal podcasts.
But okay, you've just helped me form the actual definition in
the context of how I've always used it, and many people use it
successfully, and have been doing this for four decades,
almost. But certainly more than 10 years. Live is for the live
studio audience. It's not a replacement. It is where people
who were a part of the creation of the show. That's that's what
the live thing is for. Yeah, I've never seen I've never, I do
not see any world where people transition from, you know, you
add a live stream to your podcast and people stop
downloading. That's not how it happens, those people become
part of the show. And whether you like it or not, because
they'll be emailing you during the show, there'll be text
messaging you, they'll be sending you shit on Telegram, it
doesn't matter if you have a chat room or not, they're going
to find ways to send messages back to you. That's my
experience. And that's that's the part that that the whole
discussion is missed is what exactly are we doing here? And
it's, it's satisfying, I believe. And I think Dave, we're
on the same page, a new cat because I came from radio,
remember. So this is how what I know to do now now we have this
whole slew of very professional talent, who are having to morph
their entire skill set into a nonlinear system, which is very
different because you're not rushed to hit the top of the
hour or the commercial break or whatever it is. And now you have
infinite ways to interact with the audience and you have the
time to do it. And this, to me is is a has a very big future
for the talent that's out there that's looking to differentiate
themselves with a live studio audience.
Yeah, it's like the wait, wait, don't tell me. Yes, yes, yes.
Yes. Very good example.
Yeah. Thinking Albertus, you're you're now an honorary member of
the live sub committee.
Yes. where decisions are made? Yes.
Yeah. I was. I was listening and I agree with the, you know, with
the fact that the format's are very different. So the way you,
you, you craft the content that doesn't necessarily coincide.
That's great. For me, that's one level of the conversation. But
if I step back, and I take it from a different standpoint,
just in terms of products, and adoption, what blew my mind when
I saw live item was just one thing. I thought, if this is
adopted, this is the only tag that if adopted, then is going
to be tightly intertwining radio streams, live streams. podcasts.
So podcast apps are going to support the radio streams. And
so radio streaming apps are going to most likely. So the
step to support podcast is going to be shorter possible. So and
this would contribute to the adoption of metadata from Point
A to Point Oh, so that's how I saw it from the product
perspective. On the one hand, there is the former the medium,
that's great, absolutely. But if America Gnostic to that, and is
think about adaptability, I think this is a great
opportunity to really intertwine and pair radio streams with
podcasting and basically reach a larger audience.
Right, and do that at the protocol level. Correct. And not
anything else? Because that I think that ultimately, is the
discussion on GitHub, and the discussion is, well, we should
also just point to the life page where someone is streaming on
YouTube. Like, that makes no sense to me. That's, that's
yeah, I want to talk about that. So. So here was the idea, in
part part of what is the problem here is that the live item was,
was up there for months. And nobody commented on it until it
got into it got finalized. And now everybody has a flurry of
comments, which is, which is, you know, annoying. But, but, so
mean. So, here's, here's the way I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna
start first principles here and then build up. Some live item is
semantically meant to be equivalent. With an item.
Period. That's, that's what it is designed to be. It is it is
the live equivalent of an item. So that may and it has to be
met, it has
to be valid, a valid datatype. For an item
it needs to do it needs to funk function for live streams, the
same way that an item functions for episode got it first podcast
episodes got it. And one of the basics. And so therefore,
default, as is, it needs to be self contained. That means it
needs to deliver the content. The content needs to be
delivered to the app, not the app just pointing to some other
place, right to launch another app. Yeah,
this is an ingest just like you're ingesting an mp3 with
show notes with other other data. Okay.
Right. We're building we're building a podcast in 2.0. open
source communities building is open, decentralized systems
built on RSS, we're not we're not a trade group or trade
association for podcasters. We're not trying to make we're
not the IAB we're not trying to make somehow make their, you
know, products do specific things. We're, we're trying to
build open systems that allow this stuff to function in a
specific way. That
sounds very cultish to me. Dave Jones does
well. So the light as written a live item, it does it, it does
the job it was designed to do, which is what I just laid out.
It delivers content in the app
for the app was added to render any way the app
chooses. Yes. And so this is it, you can look at a different
differentiator. You can look at it very, very similarly to, to
the social to comments and social tag. The social tag by
design is meant to render comments and discussions in the
app. That's what we're, that's what we're building it for.
We're building it as a con as a content delivery mechanism to
the app.
We're so far in pod friend works, at least that the the
reception side, there's no interaction, but you can see and
there's a lot of interaction because I do it. I know agenda
social.
So it's cool. That's, that's where we're at. That's the
bottom line for it at the moment. Now there's this
discussion that has emerged that says, okay, that means and I'm
going to try to, you know, express the pushback in a in a
generous way that I think is is what people are trying to say,
which is that means that some podcaster has to go build a nice
cast server or do some other infrastructure change and that's
that's a lot of work and we want to meet them where they're at on
YouTube or any of these other things. Okay, that that is a
valid thing and I'm totally understand it. That's not that
is a different thing to ask for. And so that what is being asked
for there is a notification system. Yeah, is we're asking it
to do a new we're asking live item to do a new job. We're
asking it to deliver links to content in other apps. and
services. Now that that needs a different tag that so the way
that I live item exists right now as it exists as a
notification to the app that there's live content available.
And inside the live item, you have either enclosure or
alternate enclosure, which notifies the app that here's
where you can find the content to begin to, to play in the app.
If we want the live item, and I'm, again, I'll say I'm fine
with this, if we want the live item to also be able to deliver
links to content on other apps and websites, we need a new tag,
something like external or content link or external link,
some other tag that can also be put into the live item. That is
just a link a semantically appropriate link to the content
on the other app or platform. That's the proper way to do
this.
We did the equivalent of a funding tag, basically just a
link to, to whatever that would be Yeah,
you could make the same argument with social and with with with
comments tag, you can say, okay, by design, this is meant to
deliver activity, pub, or other or matrix or some other
protocol, wire level content to the app. But if we have this
thing called, you know, whatever it might be content link, or
this other tag, we can also put that into the social tag, and
say, Okay, here's a link to my twitter thread. And then the
app, if it wants to choose is to honor this, it could launch
Twitter. But we don't want to build the social tag, or the
live item tag around the notion that this is going to be
delivering links to other content, because that's not what
it is designed to do. It can be made to do that. But if we're
going to make it do that, we need to do it the right way. But
giving it the correct semantically appropriate tag to
go into it.
One question, and then we'll see if our guests are still alive.
That was very clear. Appreciate it. So how does this differ from
say, the media tag, if I was going to put a PDF in my as my
enclosure is that that doesn't have any description and doesn't
say anything about how it should be rendered. It's just a piece
of media, it has the same metadata in the item. And then
it's up to the app where there knows how to render that or not
that particular media file, how is that different from the live
tags that purely the notification or the timestamp
that's in there?
Well, lot, the notion of something being live needs other
needs other attributes that that okay, I got that one got the I
got it live start time, stat. Yeah. And so the the idea here
is that we can make this work. But we don't, we really, really
don't want to start shoving this stuff into something like the
link tag. It's just not it's not what it's meant for. We want it
we want to do this right. And, and in order to do it that way.
There's a couple that we need to do it technically, right, which
which is going to require a new tag. or, excuse me, excuse me.
And we also have to be cognizant of the fact that if we're
looking at app adoption, and I want to get your opinion on
this, Elberta, if we're looking for app adoption here on all
these tags, clearly we are that's the whole point. If I
tell an app like it, well, let me let me flesh this a little
bit further. If we want adoption from all apps, we don't want
podcasting 2.0 tags to just be adopted by pod verse and, and
pod friend and cast ematic and pure Val caster, we don't want
that we want these tags to be adopted by Spotify, Apple,
Amazon music, we want these all to be adopted across the entire
podcast industry. Now imagine that your Did you are delivering
links into a live in live item in the podcasts or puts in
there? Okay, here's my live item in its it's just simply a link
to Facebook. That is something that Apple podcasts will never,
they're never going to just have a link there that launches
Facebook for you out of their app.
Yes, I mean, they'll put it behind a walled garden for only
their own app. So in other words, if if I had that tag and
I was parsing it, I would say okay, you've got to like pay
extra for the Apple iTunes app to get this functionality for
these podcasters Yeah, I don't see it being adopted as kind of
like a open source, at least on the big guys. I mean, I could be
wrong. And it would be nice if I were but but one
of the one of the use case, one of those like example scenarios
was, what about Joe Rogan? What about your somebody's gonna
listen to the Joe Rogan podcast, but it's over here on Spotify,
streaming live or whatever. I mean, app, Apple podcast is
never going to launch the Spotify app for you so that you
can listen to Jim okay. Yeah, they don't link out. It's not
No, no, they'll never they'll never adopt this. And so, I
don't know, there's a 10. There's a technical issue here
that I think can be solved. If and I think it can be solved
very quickly, by just having an external content tag. It can be
put in there. But then there's also this practical idea that I
see this being a real adoption, head adoption. Like just no go.
May you
mean, no, go?
Like, what you're saying is if is if we want these bigger apps
to launch, to some how long? No, we
don't know, I think it's clear. And I think that this is a great
way to get the namespace adopted, because I do think
radio stations will say, Oh, wait, we can get our streaming
those apps. And let's, let's make sure we add to the
namespace with that at least the LIVE TAG to to our feeds,
I would never expect I would never, I would never expect an
app to launch another app so that you can hear or see your
content. I wouldn't expect that, you know, you're gonna
know they've here I agree with you regarding semantics. But I'm
not so concerned, because I think that this is a matter of
having all hosting companies or the companies that produce the
RSS feed aligned, yeah. So that you have the link, for a link.
So semantically speaking, it makes no sense in the live item
tag. So that's what I'm saying. It doesn't concern me, if we all
agree on following the namespace. This cannot happen. I
understand the conversation be on GitHub, but it makes a lot of
sense to have to have a real live stream URL there, not a
website, for example, or a YouTube page. And this is must,
must be enforced by the hosting companies. And then when there
is a high adoption of a certain tag, bigger companies and or
players like Spotify, they're gonna start to notice and
hopefully, they're going to start to implement them, because
it's big, simply because they have a higher adoption.
You know, what's really cool is that we have no agenda stream.
And so there's, there must be at least 15 live shows. And so now
they can, and they have, but they also have podcast. So now
they can all individually use the same URL, notify, hey, we're
live at this point. I mean, this is this is, it's just gonna be
really groundbreaking stuff where a couple of you know,
that's now you have the essence of a Podcast Network. Because
they're literally connected by the same stream, it's a lot of
this stuff that I think is going to be very surprising once we
get it in. And you're right. And we need that for this has always
been the thing hosting companies, we have about four or
five, who are really implementing tags as they go and
as the demand from because everyone has slightly different
users, or maybe wildly different users. And we're building this
is a slow a slow process. You know, I saw it in 1.0. It just
takes time.
Yeah, I did want to bring that up is that, you know, the day to
day on these things and what I was reading on the mastodon,
it's pretty easy to lose kind of a higher level viewpoint of what
you guys accomplished. As a group. I mean, everybody on that
Mastodon chat that I'm that I'm reading, everybody has produced
an amazing advancement for podcasting. And so yes,
regardless of how the day to day goes on this particular tag at
this particular time, kind of, we should not let that get lost
into the miraculous achievement that this
is yeah. Thank you. You
know, I that's what I go back to. And that's why we love you
know, especially when the bat signal went out. Bobby said
public funding, yeah, the sad, we're happy, we're happy to, to
jump in because we we, we have not lost sight of, of what
everybody has contributed to doing. I mean, you know, I tell
you this apple would not be hosting any content, any podcast
content had the podcast index not come about now that you
check, like that's a huge, you know, multi trillion dollar
company that changed their approach to this particular
medium, simply because that small piece jumped in. Was that
a good or bad thing? I don't care. It's like a massive
improvement, like it changed the landscape. And so I, you know,
Alberto and I are, you know, we're we're in the same boat
that the day to day can kind of cloud the focus or cloud the
overall vision but don't don't lose sight of what what's there
and what everybody's done.
Yeah, and I don't you know, we we've been, me and Adam both
been part of multiple open source projects in the past and
the day to day flame wars come and go and everything and I have
a very thick skin. I mean, people can, you know, say what,
it's also very healthy. This is, this is very good. This is the
shit you can't do in a corporate environment. You can't piss
people off. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. So I've always
said that just looking at the productivity of the group. If
you could even afford this group, because it's quite large,
you would never get the productivity never get the
thinking. And in general, everyone's actually much more
honest and courteous towards each other, even though we get
flame wars and stuff. But it's really fantastic. And this
format, I think the mastodon format has a lot to do with it.
Because it's not like an email list is not what you know, shit
scrolls off. Like that. Some other thing going on. Let me see
what that is. And you lose interest, which is good. That's
how it should be is done. It's in the timeline. You don't want
to go back to it.
Yeah, I think I think in the ultimately. So I think we can, I
think we can absolutely deliver what's being asked for. We just,
we just need to do it in a in a well thought out way. And I
don't think it will take long, I think it's a very easy thing to
implement, as I do think we can do what's being asked for, I
just want to make sure that we don't do it in we don't try to
like shoehorn something in and I give
away. Also, this is a very good group effort and practice for
comments. Because we have similar problems with with the
comments tag that we have here. They although I think it's much
more complicated. So getting through this as a group and all
agreeing and figuring it out, I think is going to be good for
us. This will really help with the next steps.
Yeah, I think comments. There's been, you know, a lot of
questions about comments lately, I think it is, I continue to say
it is the most difficult tag we're ever going to do as a
group. Because there's so many moving parts the live compared
to live item, it's way harder, because they look at look at
Daniel J. Lewis, his post, he's like, here's the 15 things we
need for comments. You're essentially rebuilding Twitter.
What I think ties this all together, and I really want to
talk to Roberto and Ben about this is a piece of technology
that kind of dropped out of the bottom of podcasting 2.0. And
the more I look at it, the more beauty I see in it, and how it
can really tie everybody big and small together. And that's pod
ping. I mean, pod ping is so powerful that I know that I
could start a consulting business and I could build a
database of a large portion, at least of all active feeds, I
know exactly when they're updating, I could build a
podcast app just using pod ping, just using pod ping, you know,
and like a supplementary search. And this, this notifier I think
is so powerful. Roberto, how do you see this?
I fully agree and I'm very surprised that botting is not
been adopted yet by Austin companies. Right? I believe I
was speaking with Dave a few months ago, they were talking
about the last update right in an RSS feed the last update and
putting solves so many problems at the same times. And it can
allow for example for the live stream to notify when the stream
is starting. But also you can literally like a Pub Sub hub
send a ping on where when when when anything in our RSS feed so
instead of scraping Yes, we have major companies scraping our
feeds 10s of 1000s of times per minute right so that to solve
all the problems so long story short, it should be mandatory if
we could have a low
and also I would do that you know what so let me just say
this Apple Apple Listen to me Apple no one will know no one
has any way of knowing that if you use pod ping there's no
technical way for anybody to know that you're doing it it's
okay no one can narc on you that you're cheating with the open
source guys. We know they not already do we don't we don't
they might be do it. Do it. Everybody should be doing this a
better you're so right mandatory. And it's it is a it
is. It is like the first kind of web three blockchain Neve
bruster Brian of London chapeau. Ba my hat's off to you. Because
what it's just a beautiful, beautiful piece of technology
that can live forever. And it truly can be the backbone of
podcasting. When no one owns
a large company, any large company with any sort of
environmental initiatives, and they're right,
they should be doing this. Yes. Yeah,
they should be doing this. We need to see ESG beta meeting.
Yeah, we
didn't ESG pitch on this, like, Hey, this is this is it? Yes.
Yeah. I think you can make a case that you can improve your
ESG score by not scraping 10,000 times a minute. It's just wasted
resources, you know,
correct. Yes, GMA plus there is the added value in the morning,
drinking a coffee while watching the PA just
the sexiest thing ever. I do it to like, Boom, look at that.
Look at that. Look at that. Oh, that's an interesting podcast.
Yeah,
on the pod thing, front alley, that's
being done. Watch everybody pod ping Dot Watch. If you want to
see that.
Alex and Brian are currently hard at work I'm seeing they're
they're, they're merging pull requests, like, like mad. There.
They are upgrading piping to the next iteration that will support
reason codes. And so what does that mean? In the future, you'll
be able to read now all you get is a feed URL, something has it
changed? In the future? You're gonna you're gonna know what
changed or why. Yes?
Oh, what element changed?
Yeah. You're not necessarily what element but what why did it
change? So you're just gonna, there's gonna be like, well
live, you know, this, this feed just went live?
Ah, oh, and what is it? What is it? What does it drag that data
from just by knowing what's happening or because something
is added or
whatever the input is? So if you had a, you know, if you're, if
you have a live stream, and then you can send along that that
reason code with it, and say, Okay, now the status, the live
status has changed for people
wanting to investigate what is their GitHub is our spot for the
for the pod ping?
There is bit odd, put it in the show notes, because it's too
long to kind of read out. And there's this, there's this
other, I don't know where we are timewise. But there's, you know,
something else happened? Is I deleted a whole bunch of anchor
feeds. They're not deleted, but that marked them put them in the
graveyard. In the graveyard? Yes, a tombstone them. And this
would be interesting to ask from a hosting company perspective.
So here, here's what I ended up eliminating from the index
296,000 feeds. These feeds, the criteria was, they have two
episodes or less. And the total con, the total length of the
enclosure, within any episode was less than three minutes
long. So if it met those criteria, if nothing if it
basically if it if they had no more than three minutes of
content and less than three episodes, it was removed.
Was there a date on that day? I mean, did you?
Oh, yes. Yes, yes. Yeah. Also a date? Yes. If it had not been
updated in the if there's no new items published in a year. So so
two minute to two episodes or less, less than three minutes
not updated in a year? And also the last piece? glad you
mentioned that. No, iTunes ID. Yeah. So he met all those
criteria?
Yeah, I mean, those criteria, Dave, you basically are very
aligned with the internal quality filter we used to have,
which was like decision tree. And it was very similar.
monistic quality filter, it means that when we submit a
show, or in our community, for example, we have a community
page, where we showcase our podcasts and our users and our
end, we always have we at the beginning, we had a mix of
duration, number of episodes, right? And then we started to
add a bit of machine learning in order to make sure that we could
capture also the short episodes that actually were quality
episodes, but the format was very, very, there was a big
delta between the format or the average format and those
formats, which are very little but the long story short, is
that you did very well to remove those feeds because 99% of the
times they are not quality, they actually are not sure it's most
of the times I guess their tastes.
Yes, that's okay. So I'm glad to hear you say that because I was
thinking about this again. I had a lot of time to think about
sort of the prac, the technical, practical side of this and the
philosophical side of this, because this is not really, this
is not really trying to purge based on content. It's not what
this is not, you're not purging on what it's about your purging
on whether or not it meets a minimum level of listening
ability. Like, is, is this content? What there? There's the
quote, okay, so there's the question of the technical
definition of what is a podcast? Okay, well, it's a, it's an RSS
feed that references an audio content or video content. But
then there's the philosophical question of what a podcast is.
And that question is its, it has to meet a certain it has to have
a certain level of, of listener listen ability, or, or content
in it, that people would recognize as something as some
sort of communication. That is, you know what I mean? Literally,
I could pay for I could play for y'all dozens and dozens of
things, where it's just some Doosan Hey, hey, alright. And
that's it. It's the only thing. I don't want to get into these.
What I'm trying to say is it doesn't it doesn't feel like I'm
getting rid of these 300,000 fees did not seem like
editorializing to me. It seemed like a clean like a technical
cleanup exercise.
Yeah, exactly. The way I see I see the is like spam. Right? So
you, yes, yes, you probably capture 99.5% of the non quality
non real podcasts non real shows, then there are some false
positives. But is it similar to what happened especially at the
very beginning with spam filters, right, where you have
to train them and you improve your, your approach? Let's say
that your approach is very manual, which is perfect,
because it captures most of the distribution, let's say, of
shows that don't fit those criteria. But but that's a
start. So I wouldn't see it as editorial we had the same
conundrum. Yes, no, do we delete them? Do we? What are we gonna
do? Some of them were paying? And we had to like, Wait,
basically cancel the steps. But what are we going to do? So?
Yeah, it's an interesting philosophical problem, but I
like, technical approach.
Yeah, I like the idea of bertos offering there, Dave is, is not
first of all, if you don't qualify it as if you don't call
that dead show, if you call it, you know, technical spam, or
something like that, you know, to spam and you're doing a
technical cleanup. And really, you know, at some point, people
should be able to, you know, claim their feed go in and mark
it is not spam.
Yeah, and well, there's an there's this, this notion of the
Eat Sure, we want to have all of the podcast feeds in the in the
world, we want that. But at the same time, there's there are
practical limits. I mean, sure. We can't just, we couldn't have
like, let's just say 40 million podcasts.
Now you tell me what do you mean, we can't scale to that?
What are you talking about? Yes, we can. Don't ever say we can,
okay. Okay, we can't do that right now. Okay, this is it
today. And so, and I limited this to only anchor, because I
think anchor is uniquely positioned, technically
speaking, to create to be a conduit for this sort of podcast
spam, because of what they are and how they function. This idea
that you can just launch it from your phone, talking to your
phone, and you've got a podcast.
But I, I partially agree, sorry for interrupting. But I
partially agree because for example, we do have the free
first episode. So all features everything, you just sign up no
credit card. And when we launched that we had this, we
could see and observe that kind of conduct. But what we did was
building an app, basically, we have a spam engine. This is not
the quality filter is an engine that is based mostly on the
description on the presence of the cover, but we have some
machine learning there. We have training there, and we trained
from our internal CRM, whether the Spam is correct or not any
works for 98% accuracy region under the curve, which means
it's a good system, we actually have very little false
positives. So this could be prevented by anger if they
wanted.
Also, imagine the improvement in the ESG score. If we didn't have
stupid machines, pinging stupid shows 10,000 times a minute,
it's waste. It's It's warming the earth.
What do they call that thing that you get with a 401k? Or
like a like a mutual perspective, we need to develop
a perspective yes, we're the key
if someone out there is an ESG litigant, because that's What it
all is? Someone's a lawyer, and you need to someone needs to sue
apple and Spotify over this horrible Earth warming practice.
Oh, it's hard to breathe. There's so much co2 Apple.
Well, I mean, I know he was, but there is there is some logical
business sense behind doing this. It's it's not throwing
money away, you know? VSG the SG angle is a good one, I think,
because we all want to be wise stewards, but at the same time,
there's money being thrown away when they're running. Yeah, a
million servers out there pulling RSS feeds and then the
hosts inkind have to have a million servers answering RSS
feeds. There's I
can tell you, I can tell you from what you're like the what
you're describing is completely accurate Ben because most you
take a guy like Marco who has spent years developing his Algor
his feet checking algorithms and to where he can minimize the
server usage because every dollar counts for his setup. But
then you have a company like Apple or some other company who
just has so much money their answer to that is not is not
optimize the algorithm their answer is throw 12 more servers
at it
but also look at the waste Facebook is producing with these
you know 512 K downloads on I mean, these these, these are ESG
score lowering maneuvers Facebook.
Yeah, good. That's horrible.
So we thank some people or do we? Because we're running one
hour 60 Man, these guys are too much fun listening to you talk
day.
Okay, so practical question. We've got like a million
donation thanks to Ray do want to stick around or
Yeah, we love sticking around. This is my favorite part of the
show.
Okay. All right.
And let's dig up to as I said blueberry and Chad Ferro for
boost booster gramming During the show, well done well done.
Yeah, we missed last week. So we got we've got like an extra week
of things are here with the now this is gonna be interesting.
Right off the bat. This is $270.64 from the from the guys
at antenna pod. Whoa.
Shakalaka 20 is Blaze. big baller.
Yeah, it's okay. So he he asked me to have you since he's Dutch.
He wants you to pronounce his name. Okay. Cohen, Glock got
back. Okay.
Oh, he Oh yeah.
GLOTZ b ACH. Ah,
this is a German isn't that doesn't sound Dutch. It's Kuhn.
Kuhn is very Dutch. Okay. Klotzbach.
Okay, cool. Little
what you said sounded like barf bag in Dutch. It was very funny.
Khun barf bag everybody Yes.
Sorry for insulting the guy that is he says the antenna pod
community decided to donate 250 euros for the podcast
and that is so cool.
Thank you guys. Yeah.
10 apart there of default install on a lot of a lot of
different systems.
They Yeah, they've they've really been pushing podcasting.
2.0 and then index they've been roiled that group. Yeah. Franco
Celerio from cosmetic ease, gave us $100 Whoa, he says thank you
guys for revolutionising media time and time again. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you Franco. Franco, such a good guy. Okay,
Kevin merit he sent us this is not a monetary donation. He he
bought he bought for us for you. He won the bid for the podcast
index. Domain. Top Level Domain on handshake
is yeah, this is very interesting. Handshake. So it's
a blockchain based Domain Name System. So once you have it, and
you you still have to pay some kind of ongoing little fee into
the, into the, into the chain to maintain it. It's like all other
alternative DNS systems, you either are going to have to
modify your DNS settings, which of course centralizes it, or
there's some kind of app that you'll have to run alongside of
it. And that community with the community is doing is that it's
there. In essence, they are giving away shit coins, and I
don't mean to degrade what they're trying to do. But this
is it's tokenized so this is like It's almost like a stealth
ICO. So I've received all of the Adam curry and no agenda. Domain
names. Dan it's all tied into ERC. 20 blockchain so you know
somehow that's going to be value I'm not I can just see it coming
down Broadway but they're they're out there spreading
these names which are, in essence alt coins masked. And
I'm not against it. I'm actually I've accepted the ones are about
to accept the ones that we've received. And that's the current
value. And I'm sure they'll go up in value and it's like, it's
kind of NF T in a way.
Okay. Yes. Well, he gave he gave us he gifted us podcast index,
and I set up an account and accepted the gift. Oh, great.
Luck, it. Thank you. They did it looks like he did about 40 bucks
for it. So yeah, I'm
telling you. It's like an NFT, bro. But it's done in a very
interesting way. But whenever I say that people get no no man.
We really want to have an alternative and DNS system.
Sure. Yeah, I want that to yeah, definitely make it easy for
everybody and we're in business.
And you see that with the dot eath domains to do them. Well.
Thank you, Kevin. See, Sammy Minkin as soon as $20.22 Thank
you Sammy. He says a Happy New Year Keep up the great work sir
Sammy. Let's see $20 From this, these are all PayPal donations.
$20 from Christopher Valerio got gherardo G Banda mass energy a
jay AR do
Gerhardt guy yada yada doe Come on.
Save cheese guy yada. No,
I'm just I'm from Alabama.
I'm in Texas. Yeah, don't give me
give us $20 Thank you Chris. Samuel Thorpe. Gave us $15 A
Samuel s Thorpe and no note on that Oh wait, no no no, there's
no I take it back. He just says a little value for value thank
you to Adam for pointing me in the right direction to get
started making my podcast 2.0 fr. Samuel Oh, oh, oh, eight by
the way. I've got a new
boost. I said Oh, yeah. Wait Is it this one don't
just found our boost? Yeah. You may have to jack up the volume.
I didn't I didn't normalize it. See Francesco, Francesco Massey
Merlino gave us $10 A new note on that thank you Francesco. I
guess Francesco is a boy and Francesca as a girl. Is that
typically how it
sounds about right? Okay. All right.
Okay, for the the resident linguists are fact checking us
in real right. That's right. Raymond land gave us $5 No note
thank you. Thank you. And in the best name I've seen in a while.
J Robert Appleby Jr. against $5. Nice that sir.
Thank you very much. Hey pal. Hey pal. Donors got fun coupons
very nice.
Guest histograms here. Okay. 1948 SATs from Brian of London.
Oh he says Happy New Years and have a great show thank you for
everything so far is your cue to boost you know you want to know
that came from fountain Oh drips got 100,000 sets
Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's curious.
That's Mexican radio that's right. That came through curio
Casper and it says go podcasting. Yeah boost
we just got a real time booster gram from let's see who did
that. No, that was for no agenda.
It's just firing off all over the place.
Oh, there we go. Oh, the here's a here's 10,000 SATs from Dred
Scott during the show during the show just came in and he says go
podcasting booth
See, this is why we got to do this. Okay, Chad, Pharaoh gave
us 333 says through fountain need you just as first? Okay.
Yeah. You were you were first in your first of the Chad pharaohs.
Dred Scott. Again 50,000 sets
totally crap. The Bruce Wayne of podcasting. 2.0 Ladies and
gentlemen, we have no idea where he gets his money from but we
think he's inherited it from the from him before Mr. Rockefeller
lineage
yet he said the Ross Ross Ross child probably
Yeah, Warburg may dread Warburg that sounds sounds pretty good.
Through pod friend 50,000 Sassy says go podcasting.
Yes, of course we go podcasting For you
see, oh, this is that this is Alex gates. You can always tell
us Alex because he spells his name Al EC S E Ks. Yeah, yeah,
Sir Alex gates. He's sent us 5000 SATs through the breeze
app. He says try different font to render unknown Unicode
characters. Okay, and did they come through? Now he's telling
me to try a different Oh, in my browser. Yeah, cuz they always
get screwed up. Oh, okay. Good idea. I will do that. Thank you,
sir. Alex. Oh, here we go. Karen Karen down. Give us 6969 cents
for this episode. 69
Oh, Episode donation. Nice one.
That's to fountain he said I had to laugh at once clip of his
shit Shambo NFT experiences. It's a wild world out there not
for the faint of heart. But it was personally more of a fan of
NF T's with utility E as a replacement for Tick, tick tock
I guess or tick attack to TS seek a ticket? Yeah, for an
alternative to Patreon or maybe even identity verification in
the far future. What are your thoughts on Main coins as a low
pressure way of onboarding someone into crypto wallet
world?
Huh, well where are the developers? You know? Yeah, we
got hive working and you know that that was that was a labor
of love and it's working. So
I mean there's a lot of NFT stuff on hive. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
not opposed to NF T's. I just think they need to be there.
They're so brand new that everybody's just kind of go into
Surco and has no idea what to do with
but also ultimately your your NFT your ownership is housed on
somebody's server somewhere you know, it's like, how long will
that stay
up? And see, Abel Kirby gave us 5000 SATs the career caster and
he says boost for ag Happy New Year. Thank you. Is ag Alex
gates used to great Oh, nice. We get oh 5000 SATs from cotton
gin. He just says Happy New Year. Here Brian mozzie send us
37,500 SATs nice and nice. He says pew Happy New Year boost
brings me to over 200,000 says marker for that elusive T
shirts.
Oh yes. Yes. Yeah, he's in line.
We need we need Ben we need your wife to make us t shirts because
She evidently can make them and we have no ability to make T
shirts anymore.
Yeah, she has me setting up a craft room for so I'll really
she she's she's got all sorts of equipment. A laser printer Now
that does T shirts and wow cool effusion I don't know she's got
all sorts of crazy stuff. She loves it
how many hours a day
she has the kids go she literally she had the kids in
there making their cousin cousin camp Christmas T shirts are
sweaty and
rags Mama's got his working in the in the in the sweatshop nice
mom said we could have supper tonight if we get 27
after after the app we are going to buy a t shirt factory
actually
come to come to our CES calm Yeah, we'll hook you up leave
and do your merch.
Yes to starting a trust to JPMorgan. Every every industry
we got some wireless electricity for you to like. Yeah, and we're
a political party. Boom. Yeah.
Thank you. SC 22,000 Road ducks 2220
I have a new one for that
what Wait, did you get this?
That's good. Gosh, I wish I remember who sent it to us.
That's nice. I like it. This is the duck it's a duck hunt boost.
It's your rubber ducks.
Oh it is it is
Davison again. You get that is beautiful old school eight bit
days.
Peter says Get well soon tiny Dave I will Peter I think I've
got my Christmas right here late okay Lincoln sent us 18,000 SATs
through pod friend he says my monthly donation oh nice not go
through oh he says my monthly donation did not go through so
here's a boost to make up for it antenna pod is looking for help
to add streaming payments. So if you have experience with Java
and Android development hit him up go podcasting
nice nice oh let someone be willing to help with that.
That's cool
yeah, he posted that on Twitter and started this he was
hilarious huge threat was no it was like hey, we're antenna pots
looking for help to implement the value for value streaming
SATs or whatever. Like there was like an immediate 20 people
reply you're boiling the ocean you're killing the earth
what they're because of Bitcoin. Yeah. Go talk to Apple. They're
the ones boiling the Earth. Yeah, most feed suckers feed
polars
jobs VRT gives us 4949 SATs through fountain he says just
sent their GG a matching boost. Oh, that was nice. Cool. Thank
you for that. Let's see 21 Oh, Rush boost. Okay. Oh, this is
Harry pilgrim couldn't resist the trifecta of Dame Jennifer
JCD and the keeper reminding me to boost
Okay, let's see if I can do that.
Here's your cue to boost you know you want to boost boost
boost. Qualify Aaron Sal nomics, he sent 1000 SATs through Korea
cuz castering He just He says just because I can boost nice
boost boosts back at your brother.
Boost 1111 says through breeze is anonymous and it just says JC
D boost plus a Fauci boost boost boost boost Boost
Your wish is my command. If you want to get on this action
people get a modern podcast app a new podcast apps calm
Mike Kayden over at Red Circle Road ducks 2222 curio caster
it says first red circle busco podcast yeah thanks Mike sigh
Mac soon as 500 says through fountain Oh, this is Paul
Saltzman Saltzman boosting for the DeVore ag boost Pingel Oh,
geez,
we're gonna do that. Yeah, as popular.
No, this is this is truly anonymous. It just says BTC pay
on Umbral can do donations, thought offsets. Mm hmm. So what
is it? What? What are they saying?
That, well, there's a number of apps that you can do. Donations,
that's the tally coin as well. That's also an Umbral where you
can just have a QR code for either b2c or lightning.
Okay, I see as a receiver Yeah, I got I got Karen came back in
with 11 123 says the curio caster and he says, Oh, I got my
shout out name wrong. It's esto es puck. Spanish. I guess it is
sto is podcast. 2.0 Without the ing is that this is E sto then
DS. Then podcasting? 2.0 Yeah, that's Spanish. Okay. Pronounce
that for me. SOS podcast. 2.0. Okay. What does it mean? Oh, it
means this is podcast. 2.00.
Okay. All right.
This concludes Lesson number one Spanish for podcasters.
Karen speaks fluent Spanish as well. And he does a he does a
podcast where he does book reviews of like classic
literature but in Spanish. Nice. As a tea. I think it's a
teaching tool to help people
as if they're in Hong Kong wasn't impressive enough. Now.
He does that, too. Yeah,
I thought that no, wow. Oh, Dave Jackson. School of podcasting
came in with a row of ducks.
Nice
he says ducks. It's what's for dinner. Cast Breeland says is
that do I have the accent? Yeah, you Nailed it. Nailed it. Yeah,
just like I know that other than the one before. So what can barf
bag or whatever 3300 says through fountain. He says
thanks. Well you're welcome Cass Thank you. 33,000 SATs through
fountain and this is from Harry Duran. And my goal is to let as
many people know about the beauty of value for value so
grateful for what you're both doing super early days but the
potential is there to hear your and podcast junkies PPU
good guy.
Yeah. He just he's out there just promoted.
What I'm so happy about though is you know, we just said to
everybody hey, it's nice. We're reading your notes. But now your
numbers are low. And we're we're starting to slip in the balance
sheet and everyone's corrected that I love that. It's really
appreciated. He's big. These big boost numbers are showing the
power.
Well, this is a huge row of ducks. I mean, this is like a
this qualifies as a line of ducks. I think 22 to 22 Wow,
from from Kai again from Kira, and through curio caster. He's a
high roller he says, I missed my regular boost last week. So
here's a make good, the more you know, there's a podcast. Let's
see there's a podcaster from the Dominican Republic called Robert
Sassoon, Suzuki, who has been diving deep into podcasting. 2.0
even changed his podcast name to esto es podcasting 2.0 We got
about a quarter there you go. Okay. Now Now we understand
and he says translation equals this is podcasting. 2.0 see,
totally got a metaphor. He's been providing lots of great
informational videos in Spanish. explaining everything from value
for value tutorials on Mastadon videos on hive three speak and
self hosting on cast upon just wanted to give a shout out to
our Latino friends who know what's up send me out with some
quacks please
Yes. What is boost in Spanish? They'll boost oh
man I don't know how I'll bet so how would you say boost
there's not a direct translation that comes to my mind maybe push
like an impulse or don't be donated we don't
know what do you what do you what is a booster rocket in
Spanish? You know? Like Elon has on his spaceships booster rocket
it's a quiet Quiet quiet
Nicoleta go at death
winning cow when you call a bear to give us a good day. Yeah.
What's what is it in Dutch was boost in Dutch.
And boost. Boost. Boost a boost? Okay, boost Knoxville boost.
Just did all like to the whole conversation between two
podcasters
and that's where this way you're professional. 28 Yeah, that was
20 to 20. From Karen Thank you Karen. donation to see 12,500
SATs from Brian mozzie night again. This is two weeks of SAS
and she says boost
yo Gotcha. Boost.
4949 cents from John's BRT. He says excellent interview from
the pod guru on Linux on PlayPlace. Pod sage
pod sage not get it right.
But I will accept these these says thank you John's BRT out
25,000 SATs from cauldron. I'd seen this name before KU l dri n
through fountains 25,000 says he's his pod father in pod
stage. Thank you for podcasting in the evolution of 2.0 I've
been podcasting since in K v. 2016. What is that? In KV?
Freight when I first heard that thought is New King James
Version. I've been podcasting since NKV 2016 and rescued
hundreds of people from abuse in this post 50 shades era with my
podcast, Coltrane's crypt of BDSM one on one talk.
Yay. Now we're talking Yeah, Bruce, this post.
If this. If this never would have been invented. My message
of safe, sane, consensual and informed adult relationships
wouldn't have reached so many. Thank you. Boost.
Yeah, an excellent resource of all communities.
All communities. See 502,371 Dred Scott, holy
crap. He gets. Shot Carla 20 blades. Okay, he needs his own
jingle now.
Okay, we have to have a leaderboard. Now. This is
getting ridiculous. Drib okay. 5023 77 is messages topping
aerostatic his record boost by one sad Happy New Year Ago
podcasting jam.
Thank you dread town, man. You might as well start a host
company with this level of support dread joining on the
join one Yeah. Well, he's got the, you know, he's got the
chapter service is doing, he must be doing eight or nine
different podcasts. He's doing chapters for him and he's just
taking a split from the value from the value block and
apparently sending it right back to us.
I'm going to begin to refer to him as high roller drips got or
independently wealthy drips got
nice. The independently wealthy Dred Scott the Bruce Wayne of
podcast is still kind of works for me.
That's that's a better one. Let's do Bruce Wayne of podcast,
comic strip blogger 10,033 sets. He says greetings to Dave Jones,
and they see feel free to listen to our podcast about artificial
intelligence entitled AI cooking. Read by former BBC
actor Gregory William Forsythe Foreman from Kent UK and to
glance at cartoons doodle by me at Comic Strip blog.com Yo, yo,
that was a better note. Thank you CSB. I
know I told him to integrate it all into one yeah, yes. doing
much better on that. Thank you.
And see we got no we got two more. We got Nomad Joe gave us
1000 SATs through fountain he says for a great new year in
podcasting. Yeah, thank you hope it will be. And oh, Mike Newman,
through breeze says a monthly boost I hear fourteens are big
this week. So I'm going all in with him and he gave us 141414
Whoa. Nice 41,414 sets. This
is nice. Thank you. Ah, this is good. We should we should skip a
show more often. Just a person who into
bi weekly donation. See PayPal. Oh, wait. Chad Pharaoh. I left
out of PayPal. I'm sorry. Chad. Pharaoh started a new
subscription for $20.22. Beautiful, yeah, somebody else
dropped off at they canceled their 20. And then like
immediately, like with it like the next day Chad Farrow, data
20. So we, we balanced that. Oh, cool.
Cool. All right. So so the balance sheet is okay. This
week. We're good.
Yeah, we're good. Eric can can stop drinking. Drinking the my
land Everclear and we got some monthly Scott Jaubert gave us
$12 These are the monthly subscribers Mark Graham gave us
$1 David Mitas $10. Joseph maraca $5 bJ kudelski $1 No No
sorry. Bz kudelski $1 Jeremy new $5 Cameron Rose $25 A pod verse
$50. Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch Downey $10 Christopher Ciara
Barack $10 Terry Keller $5 Jeremy Cavanaugh $10 Jeffrey
Rutherford. $5 sir Alice gates the podcast and 2.0 consultant
gave us $25 Chris cow and $5 Paul Saltzman 2222 roadex
do it just might as well do it. I'm just getting my ducks.
Oh, that's that's a foul though. It's not a Boo.
Boo. So I take it Yeah, sorry. That's yeah,
sure, and Moeller gives $10 Derek J Vickery gave us $21
Damon Cassie Jack $15 David Norman the ever missing Yes. $25
in Jeremy Garrett's gave us $5 And that's our
group. Wow, Gregory, great group, everybody. Thank you so
much. Go to podcast index.org. Scroll down the bottom there's a
Donate button for your fee out fun coupons that we gladly
accept through PayPal, we converted into bitcoin
eventually. Anyway, put it on the node for liquidity for the
hundreds of channels we have opened. We have our own
microcosm, check that out and go podcasting.org If you want to be
blown away. And and of course, thanks everybody who's come to
us through a modern podcast app at new podcast. app.com where
podcasts index.org/apps
And we need we needed leaderboard for real because we
need to enshrine things like air Aesthetica and well, Rep.
Scott's epic boost battle.
We have it in the database.
Yeah, yeah, I can. I can pump it out.
Hey, Dave, pump it out, baby. Pump.
That's what I do. Yeah,
that's right. That is what you do. Oberto and Ben, gentlemen,
is some stuff that we missed that you'd like to talk about,
is there anything we can do? Can we change something can we just
to wash your car? I think
hey, let's let's do the Texas meet up one of these days, not
too far. From here. I
want to do it when we can get Dave out here which is after
that To the shitty tax season or if I can find him a better job
before then. Well, always looking for a few
more days a boost like you guys have today.
We're on our way.
Podcast Movement is in Dallas, we need to do something. Oh
crap. What is that?
When is that August? August. That's too long. Too far away.
We can't wait. And marches
before tax deadline. So I don't think we'll see you at
evolutions in LA. I imagine.
Man I don't want to go to LA
May or June. That'd be fun. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That
means it's close enough to drag. I can drive that. I don't know.
No, no. What will the donation will appear that will equally
match?
Well, Dave, you're gonna you're gonna stay with me right, aren't
you Melissa? Gonna come stay with us. Sure. We'll have some
hill country fun brother.
Oh, you're so mad. And there's a lot of people that would come in
for them.
I haven't seen you and wanting to see last year. Okay. That's
right. Last year, but yeah, yeah.
And later, I'll cater barbecue. There's a good guy there in
Fredericksburg. I know that'll do some barbecue catered. We'll
make this a fun meetup if y'all want.
Can we all go to the craft room and make T shirts afterwards?
At the sweatshop. I want to do mine with glitter.
No, no. would kill me. Bins like bins like I've got a guy who
does barbecue. What he really means is this kid. He's cracking
the whip.
This is a guy he's got 1000 gallon propane tank, he
converted teas. Yeah, so that's like, I don't know 60 briskets
or something he can do
like three four cows all at once. That's fantastic. But
I did give him a bunch of wood off our place here and he owes
me so I'm sure he'll be happy to do so.
I'll bear to him. Ben are a co founders of rss.com where you
can sign up without a credit card and take advantage of their
incredible multilingual knowledge base I'm doing the
marketing here for you as well as several podcasting 2.0 tags
but you know that you're in good safe hands with the Boys and
Girls over@rss.com
And you could do one episode for free Yeah, just make it and Dave
will remove it for their algorithm
take you right out of the index. Guys thank you so much for your
your unwavering support really really appreciate you and I'm
really proud of what you're doing you know just identifying
markets getting in you see your expansion you know the whole
buying an app and what else we gonna buy a t shirt T Shirt
Company right yeah,
yeah.
I love those aspirations. I really
wait near land wait farms.
Wind farms do all right Dave anything for you
know man, send back the word and getting in the ground. Oh,
okay. Well, we will be back with another board meeting next week
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