podcasting 2.0 for December 24 2021, episode 67 Satoshi
stocking stuffer everybody there you go. The last meeting of the
Board of Directors I think is the last one we're almost at the
end of the year just before Christmas time to figure out
what's going on and what has been going on and podcast
index.org with the podcast namespace and of course, the
lovely community at podcast index dot social I'm Adam curry
here in the heart of Texas Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. The
man who actually knows who's been naughty or nice my friend
on the other end ladies and gentlemen, please say hello to
Mr. Dave Jones.
There's no good numerology for episode 6767 is the most boring
number it's that's always like the white guy on the basketball
team.
He's number six
Yeah, I think he's always 67 It's weird. You get I'm all over
the place here that it's like it's not a typical board meeting
because it's not actually Friday The Night Before Christmas.
This is started the show upside down. Well, we did.
We did. Although luckily we have the typical hokey radio guy
sound effects for a for a Christmas episode. And we're
doing this today with our guest in Australia. Mr. James Cridland
greetings strike it's beyond I I'm a big fan of the sleigh
bells.
Oh well good because I also if James was can you just sit in
the corner here in this once you get the the Chesterfield? There.
You got that one? Because that's a little closer to the fire
here. Oh, yeah. Yes. Nice.
Oh, all we need now is a phone in with Santa.
Oh, exactly. Yes, that's right. I see. James is an old radio
dude like myself. So I know he appreciates these kinds of hokey
things.
Yeah, I've just got to find an old radio dude. Like yourself.
Did they? Did they have in the UK? Did they have the? We're
tracking Santa on radar is one and already have that NORAD?
Yeah, there was there was a time when I think the RAF was doing
something and yeah, right. Everybody found Google and they
found no right. And what does NORAD stand for? The
Russians? Russia defense? Yeah, yeah. No. So
we do we yeah, we didn't do any of that. And of course, of
course, here in Australia, it's, you know, it's, I mean,
obviously, already now. It's tomorrow. Yeah. And that's
why we're pre taping this because we realize that there's
no way we can we can do it on Friday at our regular time, it
would be practically new years where you are so yeah, how old
are those jokes get after? Why are you so tired of them? We
just put up with them from people making the fucking
timezone joke.
Oh, yeah. And then this the then this the upside down joke,
which Dave started with Dave started that. Yeah, that was
the only Australian joke I know. Now I've got another one. It's
the everything can kill you joke. I mean, this,
which is absolutely true, which is very true. Oh, my goodness. I
have a question though. Before we get into what we're going to
do at the board meeting today, I lived in Los Angeles for better
living in San Francisco. And I had business in London, in the
Netherlands and in the United States. And it was so different
from anything I've ever experienced as it comes to
timing. So you're working there. Some people are three hours
later than you some are up to nine hours later, I've had the
reverse where I was in London and was dealing with San
Francisco. How does that affect your life? With what you do
getting a newsletter out daily producing, you know, the daily,
the daily podcast? I mean, does it fit in perfectly with a
normal schedule? Do you feel like you're living in two
different worlds? One is the kind of the the civilized
Western, sorry, kind of the West, you know where we are?
What Where's Yeah, where the innovation and business and
excitement is? And then you I can't help myself, I think but
you know what I'm saying?
I think you'll find the innovation and excitement is
here. We invented Wi Fi so
this was not parrot systems was not the company it
was. It was an Australian company. Invented Wi Fi today.
There you go. Quick, quick. Wikipedia check. I remember I
invented Google Maps. So yeah, so if you're if you're a fan of
Google Maps, then that's also why I'm saying we
keyhole came from Australia.
Yeah, they they're the Google Maps came from Yeah, it was it
was a Sydney thing.
Really. So just a bunch of spooks there. Man, that whole
keyhole thing was a CIA operation. You guys did five
eyes
doesn't mean, five.
But yes, no, where were you going? Oh, yes. So, time zones
and things. It's really good if you're writing a newsletter,
like the pod news newsletter, which is free pot news,
donations, right? It's really, really good. Because it means
that nine o'clock at night, my time is six in the morning, the
same day New York time. So that means that I've got all day to
write something that you lot will will wake up to. Okay, so
that's really nice. Yeah, so that is really, really helpful.
What it's not helpful for is trying to talk to anybody.
Because obviously, every everybody is either asleep, or
they're, you know, come on, you know, I finished my working day.
So that that gets very, very hard, which is why, you know, I
used to try and always go to, you know, Podcast Movement, and,
you know, pod fest, and all of these other big podcast
conferences, so that I could actually talk to people and, you
know, and meet people and everything else, because
otherwise, I could never do that in recent times. And so, as you
can imagine, the last two years have been fun.
And just from living your life, day to day in, in Brisbane, and
then made you feel like you're behind what's happening, or that
you actually are ahead of what's happening. If you know what I
mean, just the new cycles of products. Yeah,
the news cycle really confused me when I first moved here,
because essentially, there's stuff that goes on during the
day, which is all Australian, because you are all asleep. And
then everything happens overnight. So you know, Europe
wakes up and does its thing, the US wakes up and does its thing.
So by the next morning, basically, it's a big dump of
everything that happened overnight. And certainly for the
last, you know, for the last four years in your country,
there was an awful lot happening every single day. And so, so
just sort of waking up to that blizzard of news about what's
going on in Europe, what's going on in the US. Every morning was
just really strange to me having, you know, obviously,
growing up in the UK,
what's the first thing that you do? I mean, do you do when do
you start to ingest the information at what point in
your in your waking cycle?
Oh, you know, I mean, I tend not to listen to too much news
media. I'll listen to the local public radio station. But
it's like when you get when you when you put your feet on the
ground out of bed? Or do you look at your phone first? You
know, do you have breakfast first?
Oh, so normally normally it's the Google speaker is waking me
up to some to some radio.
Time to wake up it's hard to wake up this is your overlord
from Google?
Well, actually, I've got her saying she says good morning to
us and including the dog which is always important. And then
she tells us what the temperature is going to be like
you're living in a sci fi movie aren't you? Ours is great.
And she tells us what we've got in our diaries and and then she
starts playing it used to be that she would wake us up to the
the ABC News for here and then the BBC News from back home. But
that was that was insane. So I stopped I stopped ending up
doing wow so
like you had a great it looks like you had a great night's
sleep last night you know much less than
your heart rate was lower than normal. You had good resting
sleep you are ready I love human resource you are fit for the day
human resource.
One of the one of the devices that I have does actually
monitor you at while you're while you're in bed asleep from
Google as you can and you can guess that I've not allowed that
to happen.
Your your partner's very smart person. Yes. Very, very smart
person not having that.
James is looking for I'm looking for. There's this. We have these
printers at a job I had, like 25 years ago, humongous laser
printers. And it was a company called Anzac. Oh, yeah. And I'm
thinking that they may have helped develop the laser pre
Australian company. And I'm thinking they may have actually
helped develop the first laser printer. These things are
ancient and yeah. So we, we had this I worked one of my first
gigs was doing sis ops for sort of a for a big insurance
company. And then we had as for hundreds connected to the Yeah,
connected to the as 400 words. Were a bunch of ANZAC laser
printers. And then also a bunch of those humongous green and
white striped tractor feed printers. Not not Small ones,
you know, but the ones that are like, What 20 inches wide, the
paper was. So you would, and nobody, nobody younger than, you
know, 40 understands it didn't see anything like this, you, you
have this huge thing. I mean, there's big as you know, a
person he lit in, you take like a 2000 reams stack of pages off
of this thing, and it has the tractor feed on the side. But
the but the tractor feed is not like perforated. It's, it's just
solid, it's a solid shadow, you don't you don't tear it off. So
you had to take it over to this machine called a burster. And
the burster would cut the tractor feed off the side off of
both sides of this thing. And it was basically this huge thing
about the size of sounds like a guillotine. It was like half the
size of a pool table. And you stick you stick your stack of
tractor feed your huge thing of tractor feature, you load the
first thing in, you know, and it's going to suck this page in
at like it's going to pull the whole stack through and cut it
off. And so there's these huge blades on the left and the
right, that look like pizza cutters. And then so you lined
it up, and you start, he starts the thing rolling in, it goes
real slow. And then you let you make sure everything's situated
and everything's going right and it's running around, you know, I
don't know, one mile an hour, it's going like one mile an
hour, and then you so then you slowly raise the speed and you
get it going faster and faster and faster. And the fun thing
about it was that you would get to the certain point. And it was
the happy zone. And so then it's it's chugging along, but new
people, they would always cut it they would start to feel a
little too comfortable. And they cut it up too high. They go like
one mile an hour to how and this thing. And it was start flying.
And then it would just go slow and paper everywhere. I mean,
just fly you know all over the place. And you would It would
ruin every all 2000 pages this thing in so fast, you couldn't
even blink. So you'd have to pull print the whole thing out
again.
And that was what 20 years ago, maybe
3020 24 years ago, something like that. Did 2425 years ago,
IBM as 400 was my client, we built their website. Really?
Yeah. And guess guess what they insisted. But that it run on an
eight that the website run on an A S 400.
Oh my god. Oh, wow. Good luck with that.
That was hilarious. I think we ultimately said Look, you guys
bought Lotus Notes. Why don't we just do that? Okay, it's just
much easier. It's one of your products. GE Yes. Wow, way.
Gosh. So James, before we get into all of the year, which is
why I think we know at least this is what Dave sold to me.
Yeah, we're gonna do a look back at No, he said to be specific.
James will do a look back at the year for us. Yeah, yeah. Right.
And I asked Dave, do I need to do any prep? And Dave said, Nah,
no, no,
we'll just wing it. Exactly. I think congratulations are in
order. I know you are an advisor to captivate. I heard you say
this morning that you were an advisor. I was but did you have
anything to do with the deal? Because it sure feels like it.
I wasn't advisor until the the exact time that the deal went
through.
Congratulations. Excellent. So beers on James Nice.
So Captivate has been bought by a global, which is Europe's
largest Radio Group. But it also runs DAX, which is a ad
insertion service in the US and also, by the way, runs the the
big poster sites in the tube in London, and, you know, on the
side of streets and things like that they basically run those,
what do you mean, they're run a little company? Where they they
own them? So I know, okay, the big poster, what
was it? What was the they decided to go ahead?
They decided one year to to get into outdoor advertising. And so
they bought the number one outdoor company and then they
bought the number two outdoor company as well. Wow, just you
know, because because, you know, why not? You're
not allowed to do that in America. In America, we put a
stop to that. Competitive Hey, what do you think was a creative
to them for the purchase? Captivate what was what how does
it fit in their overall strategy,
but I think it fits into their overall strategy because, you
know, global at the moment are you know, they're very good at
getting, you know, big names, big talent, and, you know, and
all that kind of stuff for their podcasts, but they don't own a
podcast host for themselves. So if they wanted to emulate what a
caste, for example has been doing, or to a degree, what has
Spotify has been doing in getting in allowing anyone who
wants to podcast giving them a platform and selling ads in
those shows, then that's something that, you know, global
couldn't do because they didn't own a podcast host. Now who
wants I think it's inch
who owns DAX, who has the the ad insertion technology.
So DAX is owned by a bi global so that that, that that I think,
is the exciting thing that they've basically gone. Right.
You know, we we want to be in podcasting properly. You know,
as my, is my understanding, and you know, and this is going to
be one of the things that they end up doing, to actually have
their own podcast host. So, you know, it's interesting when you
have a look at Sirius XM bought simple cost. I have Omni studio.
Listen still. Oh, is it right? Yeah. Libsyn is still is still
independent in terms of a large media company. But you can fit,
you can clearly see that there are large media companies
basically buying up as many podcast hosts as they can.
So here's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing the strategies vary from
company to company, but it looks like radio has woken up. They're
about 15 years. on the late side, I would say they've woken
up. They're saying, Okay, we're not going to take it laying
down. I think it's very similar to what we're seeing in the
United States with television news. Fox News started by
creating Fox nation. And CNN is now starting CNN plus, it's what
the studios have done with the streamers. So it's so the
tradition, it's really about the the cost and the art and the
opportunity, I guess, for the reach that you can achieve with
with podcasts and with online. It's a trend now it's a trend
radio is striking back now. Would you say?
I think it's I think it is absolutely that. But I think it
is also just looking at the consumption. Radio is very much
an old thing. And so radio is being propped up by people who
are 45 plus 55. Plus, when you start having a look at younger
audiences, they are listening to far more stuff on demand. Right.
So whether that's music on demand, or whether that's
speech, talk on demand. Now
a question for you, do you think? Because this is critical,
this is a point I tried to make the other day to Todd and Rob.
See, looking at the trend of young people that trend is on
demand, no advertising, it can be free. I know I'm giving up my
my left nut for that Google YouTube, whatever. But the
concept of advertising I feel in traditional sense. And I'll just
say the interruptive advertising model. That's not the same as
host reads or annual, many other forms that that it can and I
hopefully new forms that can come this is what I hoped was
odd show 20 years ago. Do I see this to be a danger in the
direction that podcasting is commercialized? Podcasting is
heading where people are so focused on the ads, but it's the
need to change the nature of them. It seems like the audience
is not digging that. And they just fast forward through the
many way if they can.
Yeah, I think there's some evidence around people fast
forwarding some people fast forwarding through ads, although
I think the majority of people still still don't, but at the
end of the day, yeah, you know, I don't think that radio ads
work very well on podcasts. And, you know, if all of a sudden I
mean, you know, I was listening to a, a true crime podcast a
month or so ago, and it was a beautifully produced podcast,
and you know, the sound direction was excellent and
blah, blah, blah, and then all of a sudden, it stopped for an
ad break. And there was this crazy guy talking about good
buying, you know, whatever it was, you know, mattress or
something else programmatic. Just completely, you know,
that's,
that's us, James. We are in the in the 40 to 50 year old range
is today's millennial and forget to Zoomers, they have no
interest in listening to ADS, they just run away from just
saying I think that's a problem. We need to address that with the
industry. I don't but the industry needs to address it.
Yeah, I would agree. And I think you know, we we've certainly
seen an awful lot more, you know, influencers and, and, you
know, those sorts of ways of getting closer to a, you know,
getting closer to a brand. And you know, a 32nd ad or somebody
shouting at you with a funny voice is not necessarily going
to work too. Well. I don't for
let me let me let me ask you this though. It so and this is
something I've been confused about forever. And I've heard
I've heard people try to explain it but it still doesn't make
sense to me. Is that so you're talking about they say well
radio is old and It's, you know, I don't know what the range
would be 45 and up 50 And up. And those are the people. Those
are the people that have money. Yeah, you know, the older, the
older the demographic? Yeah, yeah, the more money they have
young people don't have money. But that's the ones that
advertisers always want to target the most. And the way
it's always been explained to me as well. Because those are the
ones who are the trendsetters. They're the young
well, okay, but let's, let's just, let's acknowledge that.
There's a lot of money in traditional media, in radio and
in television, a lot of it is from pharmaceutical especially
on on cable television, so they really dominate telcos I think
is is what's really, it's equally as big. And they target
towards the younger market. And so that the just that and
insurance, that's for everybody things that everybody needs. The
kids get money for that somehow whether the parents are paying
for it, or they have to steal it, there's there's always money
for your cell phone, and some other things. Well, there's
your there's your second leg to that, then is we we hear that
podcast skews to an older demographic as well. Or at least
don't know. The stats, is that
it? I don't think it does. I don't think it does anymore. And
I think actually, when you when you start looking at younger
audiences, for example, they are listening to a lot more spoken
word now than they we have most of the spoken word there is his
podcasts. And we have a crapload
of millennial producers for no agenda that just showing up to
their new to new to is like oh, yeah, no, I was looking for
something else.
Yeah, yeah. So I think no, we're seeing an awful lot of that. I
mean, you know, Dave, if your question is that if it's
predominantly 55 Plus listening to the radio, why don't
advertisers, why aren't advertisers interested in them?
I think that's a great question. And and it's a question which,
frankly, nobody can really understand. I think they are.
Well, other than it's, it's the ad buyers. It's the it's the hot
young things at the ad agencies. Well, you have no life
experience. And so therefore, they're literally buying stuff
on the stuff that they consume. And so they're there. I mean,
you know, there's a great oldest station here,
by the way, is a very, very important, very important point
you make there, I have long said that the media buyers, are are
just corrupted kids who just want Lakers tickets, and they'll
they'll make the buy on the stuff that they listen to.
You're absolutely right. Yeah,
I remember I was working for radio station in London. And we
told the market that we had put up a load of billboard
advertising across London. What we'd actually done is we'd put
up about four billboard ads in the street where the advertising
agencies were, because then the advertising agencies would seize
Yes. Oh, wow. This is this is really, you know, they've,
they've spent an awful lot. So the market? Yeah, they blanketed
the market. So you know, you know, the oldest station that I
listened to here, 4k Q You know, I'm, I've just just turned 50.
And I love the music on it's, you know, it's it's sort of, you
know, hot music from the 60s and 70s. It's before my time, but I
love you know, I love the whole feel of it. But all of the ads,
the ads are for pain relief. Yeah. Pest removal for your
house. Yeah. I'm funeral directors, which of course, you
know, prepay funerals,
I was gonna say, if you're hearing this, you're not you're
not ready to be our customer yet.
Brought to you by Pfizer
thinking, you know what on earth and the worry, I think for many
people in in radio is that their audiences are literally dying.
You know. So that, that's, that's the concern. And I think
that's why podcasting is interesting, because it is
reaching people with, you know, spoken word content, you know,
music is probably all going to move in the long term is all
going to move over to algorithmic services, like
Spotify, like YouTube music, like, you know, many of the
other things, and spoken word is something that can't be done in
that way. And that's why you're seeing Spotify jumping in with
their purchase of wash car last week, which is a you know, which
is another Australian podcast host. They bought Washko because
Washko has some clever tricks to take radio shows and make them
into podcasts and right, and I was thinking all kinds of other
stuff going
thinking about that. So are they going to be ingesting? Like I
Heart Radio programming? You know, how's that gonna work?
It's gonna be interesting because eventually someone like
the comedians, people are going to start saying, you know, I'm a
little tired. It's like, it's like I specifically opted out.
have Spotify for no agenda, they put it up. I went through the
whole process. I said, take it down, we didn't give you
permission is back up. You know, it's on Facebook. I mean, it's
like, at a certain point, there's gonna be enough people
who are fed up with this crap and like, it's okay. If you make
it available for people but your advertising around it to fuck
you. It's just it just gets a little annoying after a while.
Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I, I would agree with that. I mean, I think
I think, you know, Spotify is plan with that whole Washko
thing is to basically it's a completely automated system as I
understand it, Sam, Sam dams using it. Yeah. He sounds smart
as the pod lamp. alright with me. And yeah, and it sounds
really clever that it basically sits there, it seems to record
the internet stream, chop it up and make it available as a
podcast, just
11 days, all that shit. Yeah.
I mean, weirdly, that was the thing. My first you know,
investment into podcasting, I guess was back in January of
2005, when I was busy taking the breakfast show from the radio
station that I was working at. And we worked out some
algorithms to, you know, again, pull that out, it was a music
breakfast show as well. So you can imagine how complicated that
was getting rid of all of the music. But you know, pulling
that out making that available as a as a podcast, automatically
within half an hour of it going out on the air. And that, and
that was great. And it sounds as if this is basically that, you
know, at scale, although they're a fully featured podcast host as
well. So they're going to be moving a ton of, you know,
really good shows over to megaphone, I would have guessed.
So is that is that thing worked out? Generally for some, I'm
assuming what's going to happen? Let me preface what I was about
to say with this. I'm assuming that was is what's going to
happen with Captivate is that global is going to buy them and
use their DAX stuff to give them a programmatic option. Is that
make sense?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I, they've been sort of relatively close.
Have the founders
James is still under NDA. He can't really tell you. Is that
true? I mean, of course it is. It's okay. Because he knows of
course, he sold the strategy to them. This is why I'm so happy
for him. Finally, finally, a win for Grantland. exited actual
exit. That's
nice that house renovation costs a lot of money. But I'm telling
you, man, he exited
that house renovation I tell you, yes. My goodness. No, I one
of the things that I do want to do at some point is, is to
finally get rid of this gas. This gas guzzling car of mine. I
know Dave that you still drive a car from you know, I think it
was invented on the on the same year that cars were invented or
trucks renamed in 19.
Henry Ford drove it himself. Yes.
Yeah, exactly. But I'm there. I'm there thinking, you know,
maybe now's the time to use those solar panels on my roof
for something for some for some automotive excitement as well.
Do you have you have it hooked up? Do you have the transfer
switch? So you can so you can actually charge an Eevee
directly?
Well, I don't I don't have an Eevee yet. But my plan is to
there's a friend of mine who actually works for Omni studio
and he has used your like this Adam, he has worked out. He's
using the API from his solar panels to work out exactly how
much power is being generated. And he's also worked out the API
for his Tesla so that he can actually tell his Tesla exactly
how much power to pull from the solar panels are cool so he's
basically got it so that it's 98% Yeah, 98% efficiency he
needs it. So he needs an extra Yeah, is he needs a little
headroom like 5% to operate the the pump for the sprinkler when
the battery explodes. So Oh, yes,
spring water doesn't matter. Just prayer is prayer at that
point.
So James, I would say that in this past year, what I saw with
with podcasting 2.0 And you and thank and I am forever grateful
how you've covered podcasting 2.0 Pretty much as the lone
voice in the media in the beginning you stuck with it and
you have you have endured my personality and and and you know
just differences in general but but I know that we respect and
like each other you know in so many different ways but at a
certain point you went kind of from you it feels like it took
the red pill it started with you know okay listen that's great
this funny money I'm paraphrasing this funny money
but that's okay we did that we got out of the shit to do was
the message that I recall, too. I can boost the Graham corner on
your podcast. Was there a moment when when it when it clicked and
it all came together? For you, they're like, oh, okay, I can
see, first of all, how not just how to use it, but you know
what, what, what should we can come up with? Right? You're
inventive. You're, you're Tinker, you like doing stuff. So
you know what new things we can do with it. And also the
basically that there's validity to the value transfer system,
because unless I'm mischaracterizing how you feel
about it now.
Yeah, I mean, I ate took me a long time to get into the whole
idea of cryptocurrency. And to just get my head around it. And
I'm sure that that is the same way as many people, I know that
there are many sort of, you know, doubters out there who are
not completely sold on this on this whole idea so far. But from
a point of view of the whole value for value thing, I was
listening to you on the mere mortals podcast a couple of
weeks ago. And yeah, and you know, just just going through,
you know, the whole ethos behind it. And, and it works so much
better with crypto. Because you don't have that ridiculous, you
know, whatever it is 29 cent plus 3.1%, blah, blah, blah, you
know, of every single payment. It just works so much better
with it. And so I think that was one side, but the other side was
just just the whole streaming SATs thing left me quite cold.
But as soon as the booster gram corner cannula, or booster grams
came along, because you know, as I as I've been telling other
people this, it's a way of getting feedback from your
audience, which you know, I'm a radio guy, I used to get lots of
feedback from my audience. That was great. But it's a way of
getting feedback from your audience that is always
positive. Because if you are spending money, sending a
message, sending a booster gram, it's always going to be
positive. You're not You're not going to be spending money
saying hey, you
suck. You're rubbish. You should live my life. What are you
talking about? That's when it feels extra special. Yeah.
When somebody does spend money, that you're a pile of crap.
Yeah. I mean, that makes you feel good inside you like
good point. Very good point.
No, but I bet I just I just really liked that there was, you
know, when I was on the on the radio, it was a long, long time
ago. And the way that the audience would communicate would
either be a telephone call? Or, or letters, letters through the
post. Yep. Sacks form? And you would, yeah, and you would wait
three or four? Well, not not in terms of me. You would wait
three or four days. And then And then something that you had
said, four days ago, somebody would send you a little Brian
Right, you know, and spend some time and spend some money on the
Royal Mail and, you know, and all this kind of stuff. And, you
know, and I and and two things happened when we started getting
SMS messages, and then of course, email and, you know, and
everything else, two things happen. Firstly, the feedback
was instant, absolutely instant. As soon as you started a new
song a bit, you get people saying, What's this? What's this
rubbish. But also secondly, it was it opened up the floodgates
for people to be negative. And I think if I was a radio
presenter, you know, over the last 10 years, which I've not
been, I've not been behind the microphone for the last 10
years. If I was a radio presenter over the last 10
years, my god you know, you'd need to be really strong you
need to be really mentally strong because you just have
every single time you opened your mouth, you'd have feedback
so who's rubbish? What's this rubbish song you're playing? You
know and all of that.
Do you not have Twitter James Cridland?
Well, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, Twitter is Twitter is
fine, but you're not you're not performing you know, you're
there
your show there. But there's the difference for me. And there's a
difference between a radio show that is turned into a podcast
and a podcast. It's all of that it's Yes sure. It's a show and
sure you can think about it but you're not you're no longer
constrained so tightly you don't have to hit the ad break you
don't have to hit the top you don't you don't you know if you
these days it's very rare even for except perhaps for the
powerful morning jock to actually break the format and
replace a song. Oh my god. I mean, that kind of stuff. The
music directors hotline. What did you do, man? I'm looking at
the list. I can't believe you Jane DacMagic wrong. I
will tell you what I tell you what my my most fun was. I used
to be the swing jock on a radio station it used to reach about
1.2 million people. Familiar
terminology though.
Yeah, no, don't say that in America, James, this just people
don't understand exactly what that is. Oh, no Swing.
Swing chop may be something completely different. Yes, sir.
Much like, Please, can I can I catch your flag? Yeah.
Completely different. Yes. So I used to be the radio DJ who was
on Dave When other radio DJs were having a holiday, because I
wasn't good enough. For it's
called, therefore, baby string, B string. We've all done it.
Yes. Yeah, we've all we've all done. Yeah, of course. So
while and so one of the things I loved about that is that I would
get some of the weird shows that nobody would necessarily want to
end up doing. And Christmas breakfast is a fantastic time to
be on the radio. I was on the radio between six and 10 in the
morning, which is great, because frankly, you know, you've got
the whole Christmas day in front of you, six until 10. Here I am,
you know, playing some songs and, and whatever. And just the
amount of calls that you get is great. But also, I was given the
same music log for a typical breakfast with you know, with
the breakfast Zoo, and people. And so therefore I had I had you
know, I was there. In my first hour go. It's only half past
six. And I've run out of songs. I literally run out of songs. So
I started I started playing it was Christmas practice. And so I
thought, right, I'm just going to play any old Christmas music.
I ended up this was a top 40 station. I ended up playing
Doris Day. Yeah.
You ended up getting fired. Just what happened?
Yeah. No, no, no, not not. Not only was I not fired, I realized
quite late in the show that the next person on was the program
director was coming in and taking over and he came in and
he just said, I really like the music. You've
got lucky. But it was
just fantastic. I mean, just what a great time to be on the
radio. And now of course, it's completely automated. It'll be
from you know, hundreds if not 1000s of miles away. Even and
everything else.
The automation part is so did you I don't know if you saw John
Spurlock tweeted something from a prominent YouTuber. This guy's
got like 15 million subscribers. Did any of you see? Yeah, yeah,
I saw it. So did you see this James? It's a he's using
automation and AI. So basically, he said, He's, this guy's been
putting out YouTube content every 10 years, literally every
day for 10 years. And he said, Okay, I'm gonna want to retire.
And he said, but um, but I'm not going to retire the channel. I'm
just going to retire myself. And what I need is for there to be
content for the channel. So he's using the audio scheme as like
speech synthesis to clone a voice and an anime animated on
screen personality. This 3d animated like a meme?
Yes. It's like the man. It's the metaverse. Basically. He's
crazy. He's gonna be the first Metaverse, Metaverse star. And
if you look at the videos, it's like a nightmare.
They're terrible. Yeah, that's what it looks like to me. Is it
somebody typing? Like somebody will play through a video game,
and then somebody else will come back and type some content into
the into a transcript file. It kind of fits with the scene.
Yeah. And then it will read it out in this fake voice and the
animated thing will have reactions to it. And that's the
video and he's gonna put out these little one a day. And he
says like
Max Headroom, but not good.
But it's the future man. You know what it is? These are the
training wheels, you know? And I'll give Zuckerberg this that
Metaverse idea is dynamite. Because every everyone's primed
for it. And they've learned how to build object oriented style
in Minecraft. You know, we've long been since conditioned that
okay, VR headset is not all that kooky. We understand kind of
what it does. Oh, look at the business applications. It's
going to be perfect. This is a great place for people to live.
I've checked it out a couple of the like the open source
metaverse. I mean, it's for me, it's a total nightmare. I hate
everything about it. But I can see where you know cuz there you
can be whatever you want to be. You know, Brian of London had no
legs. I'm sure that's what he wanted to be when he was doing
his little high presentation. You know, sir, it's,
that's disturbing. It is. It is. It's disturbing this that things
that used to be human are are increasing because if this thing
type of thing works out, and I don't know just being triggered
by what you said about radio automation And then that kind of
thing, that human connection is being taken away from all Yeah.
From the performing arts. Yes, yes.
Yes. From God. And to me that that that is what defines what
radio is all about is a human connection and a shared
experience. And that, by the way, is also what podcasting is
about. Yes, you exactly right shared experience,
except podcasting is captured at Radio was forgotten that
important point that you just made there? That's why you're a
radio consultant.
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think you know, radio, in many parts of
the world has forgotten there are still there are still some
great radio stations. But I think in, in many parts of the
world, it's, you know, 10 great songs in a row. You know, it's
an automated system. And, and that's not necessarily, you
know, that's not what anybody really wants. And what I think
is interesting is seeing the the effects of the pandemic on radio
listening, actually, in the states radio listening dive
bond, here in Australia, actually, no radio listening,
went up. And it went up, particularly around those radio
stations that were doing more than just playing top 40 songs.
And I've heard a lot of it because a lot of people have
sent me stuff that's going on radio wise in Australia during
the past 24 months. And it to me, it sounded like you're
exactly right. Because yet, you know, all the the big kind of
state run stations, they're just telling everyone what's
happening. But here it was Collins, people saying, Oh,
here's what I'm experiencing. And, you know, the experts and,
and doctors, there was really the conversation was taking
place there. And podcasting is not even really appropriate for
that type of interaction in a different way. But that, you
know, when you're in an emergency situation, lockdown,
people are scared. That's when we had Snowmageddon. When we
were locked in, we had no electricity for five days
couldn't get out the house in Texas, our local radio station
was that was the connection, it was better than anything was
better than any news source and the government. Mm hmm. That's
what radio was grayed out, that's when it excels is just
too damn expensive to keep it running, you know, the rest of
the 10 years that is just bland and not necessary.
I wonder what about like, when it comes to booshka? Do you
think that they got into that? Because they're their technology
is novel? Do you think that they get into that mindset, because
of the strength of Australian radio? Is that? Did they come
out of that? Or are they just clever guys that had an idea?
Well,
I mean, I think two things on that. I think firstly, whisker
is is a full service podcast host, it just happens to have a
feature that Spotify quite liked. And so you know, that
radio repurposing feature?
They're just small, though that I mean, they don't have based on
the stats that I've seen, I think they've only got maybe
15,000 podcasts. Is that right?
Yeah. And they're still a relatively small day, they also
sell advertising in shows I think Freakonomics Radio hear,
they wrap it in terms of advertising, stuff like that. So
there's a bit of that stuff that goes on as well. But the guy
that runs it was the was a former, you know, very senior
management person from one of the big radio groups. And so,
you know, you can probably see that he would have taken some of
the stuff that he knows, and pull that into the new business
that he had just just started. But I mean, weirdly, that that's
what Omni studio was set up for the other big Australian podcast
host, which is now owned by heart. What what Omni studios
started up doing was actually taking bits, it was a really
clever thing. It was built into the radio stations,
infrastructure would record everything that the radio DJs
would say, or the radio announcers would say, and it
would then do some clever sort of building of a radio show just
for you a sort of a personalized radio show on the show. So yeah,
it was it was I mean, you know, that
was that plug into dolet or something like that. So it
was Yeah, I mean, it was something it was something like
that it was it would plug into whatever it is that that they
were using here. So RCS rather than let nobody use it let
anymore I'm sorry.
What are you what are the kids using these days? James?
sigh Is that oh, they are all they're all using RCS?
I think RCS
OS I don't
know what you're talking about. Explain to me like
oh my god, he says
it's it's it's the it's the thing that you it's the thing
that holds all of the jingles and all of the you know, what
what to let would have to let was this French plant system,
Windows player system, and you will basically go okay, I want
to play this song, followed by this song followed by this
jingle, followed by this song. And then there was a little
button on the top left hand side which was a little picture of an
aeroplane and You press the little picture of the aeroplane
and it's an it's landing lights would start to flash. And you'd
know that then you were on autopilot. So then you could go
out and, and, and or
I heard you want to say I'd have a fag? Yeah. I'm not gonna do it
again. So basically Dave, this is this is like I use Mr. List,
you know, it's like a modular approach. And you know, every,
every station or every DJ can build their own screens, and you
got to your cart machines and, you know, your songs and how
they are listed. And the and then the, it integrates with the
advertising department, and they control the ad slots in the
rundown, RCS works.com It's pretty interesting. So that's,
that's high.
owned, owned by iHeart. Yeah. Yep. As many of these things Oh,
yeah. Okay, that's
a that's a wonder they're broke. By all
that story, there are different sad topic. But in general, this,
this is a pet peeve of mine about Silicon Valley, and VC and
all these sort of startups that they the tagline of many of the
startups that are that are looking for exits is, don't do
this thing yourself, you need to let us do it for you. So that
you can focus on what on the real core of your business. So
don't waste your time doing this other thing. But as you need,
because that's not your core business. So you need to you
need to let us do that. But what we see the you put the light of
that when you see all of these other companies in these big
companies, all consolidating and pulling all that stuff back in
house, none of them are the big boys. Let's just say Ilana like
drop, the first thing I saw, this was Dropbox, Dropbox
started hosting its own servers. Apple is bring starts bringing
all their production and everything back in house. All
these companies these these large companies are becoming
more and more vertical, and sucking all these these other
things that you would think are not part of their core business
back in and doing it themselves how
VCs exit. That's, that's the only way these days IPOs are
rare. Everyone's just building features for Google, Facebook
and an apple etc.
Yeah, I would love like, that's my thing is we companies
outsource way too much stuff to third to third parties under
this guise of well, you know, we'll pay these guys to do it,
because then we can focus more on orbit or core business. Yeah,
but no, no huge successful company actually works that way.
They may for a period of time, but they usually end up running
everything back in. And you see that in the podcast industry. I
mean, Spotify is going around buying up radio, people and our
hearts sucking up everything into the world. I mean, nobody
else seems to adhere to that moniker, except small businesses
get duped into the, you know, into the ecosystem that allows
rich people to get more exit strategies.
Well, it does seem to be a particularly North American
thing as well, though. There's a lot of, you know, I mean, I, I
spent some time working on a piece of boring technology for
cars. And what was interesting is seeing the European view,
which was right, how do we build this, this technology into is
for radio stations to get into cars a little bit better? So it
was right, okay, well, how do we build this technology, where's
the specifications, blah, blah, blah, that was very much the
European view was, you know, okay, we want to build this tech
ourselves. And that's cool. Here's all of these specs, and
all of the American broadcasters that we were going to, in this
particular case, was saying, Great, who can do this for us.
And I found that really quite sad. You know, I mean, in the
same way, you know, when I worked at the original virgin
radio in London, we built our own content management system,
we built our own website, from the ground up, we didn't go out
and use, you know, the content management systems that were
available, because they didn't do the job very well. And
actually, we knew that we could do a better job if we built our
own tech in the same way that pod news does now. And and there
are so many people who will, you know, for speed and there are
good reasons, you know, for that, and you know, it's
probably cheaper, but just buy something off the shelf and try
and, you know, squeeze in as much as much additional random
code as they possibly can do instead of just, you know,
building the thing up from the ground as
well. And there's also the there's also the monoculture
aspect to it, because when whenever you develop a huge
monoculture around anything, look at the log for Jay
vulnerability that's sweeping like wildfire through the
internet right now. You know, everyone, everybody is abusing
the same tech. Well, then you had a huge humongous vendor?
Yeah.
I mean, what we're seeing that everywhere AWS, I mean, with
everything, kind of with that in mind, James, if we can just
imagine for a moment collectively we are the, the
Duchess of Kent, we have two daughters left, kind of now,
they're not the prettiest ones. Can we still marry off blueberry
and Lipson? Yeah,
there's a question. There is an interesting question. I mean, I
think Libsyn
seems to Lipson seems too messy seemed like everything. I know,
I don't know if they cleaned it up with that last guy. But it's
like, oh, the accounting and there's issues and there's
dangling crap.
Yeah. I mean, I think to be fair, I think you get that with
any large, large company. And I think, you know, you you, you
know, it's just that the fact that Libsyn is a quoted company,
it means that they have to tell the SEC about this means that
they are far more visible in terms of what they're doing. I
think Libsyn is a heritage podcast host, which, I mean, it
was one of the first if not the first. And I think one of the
difficulties that you're about, and that was
well, now I'm laughing because it makes it makes me think it
makes me think of heritage turkey for some reason. I don't
know. It's just like, yeah, that's Yeah, okay. Okay, I'm
with you. Okay.
So I think I think you know, what Libsyn has is it doesn't
seem from from this far out, it doesn't seem to have enough devs
working there. They've been promoting Libsyn, five new rules
for five years. Yeah. For like many years. And it just seems to
me if I was the new, the new guy that's running that place, now
Brad's to pack I would be doubling if not tripling the
amount of devs are working on that on that stuff, and just
move forward? Or just go out and buy, you know, a modern podcast
host? And retrofit stuff in? How about some new clients?
How awesome incest? Why don't we have Lipson by blueberry?
Well, I think blueberry has the same issue in the in that
actually, you know, again, there's an awful lot of heritage
code in there's an awful lot of technical debt. And there's an
awful lot that needs that needs rewriting and rebuilding in both
of those companies, which, which is interesting when you then
have a look at the other ones that are much the same sort of
size, like Buzzsprout, for example, they've been very
nimble, they've been very quick to, you know, to do new things.
And you know, and that is probably because their tech is
in a much better, better place. I mean, there are also
personality issues at Lipson, which will not go into but I
think that that's also been holding things back as well. But
But
ultimately, the question is, is there a suitor? Is there is
there someone out
there as that's who I was gonna ask that what who's the next?
Who's the next podcast host to get sucked up? Or no,
but Who's Buying? And who's going to buy as the question? I
mean, let's just forget the obvious, Spotify, blah, blah,
blah, I don't, it's got is there another radio? I'm
gonna be interested,
but is there a radio related organization that would want to
do the same trick as everyone else seems to be doing? That's
kind of where I'm going,
huh? Yeah. And it's interesting, because actually, there are
quite a few radio companies who are using megaphone issues, of
course, Spotify, so you don't necessarily want to be doing
that, because
they're all they're all gonna want to do this. Everyone sees
the future, they know they have to go there might as well get a
host. You've got everything all in one go. Yeah, maybe heritage
but also Turkey tasty. So
on the on the other side, if they continue using the product
that they're already using, if they continue using megaphone,
then they're giving all of their stats to Spotify. If they
continue using simple cars, they're giving all of their
stats to Sirius XM, which is a competitor. If they continue
using Omni studio, then they're giving all of their stats to I
heart, you know, at the end of the day, which is their
competitor. So therefore, if you're a large publisher,
regardless of whether or not you're a radio company, you
probably need to be keeping that sort of, you know, the crown
jewels of your stats and everything else in house, rather
than giving it to your competitors to run doesn't seem
like a bright plan.
Well, if they just will convert to podcasting 2.0 and value for
value, we'll give them stats and SATs. Instead of pursuing the
dead model of of interruptive advertising, maybe we've eaten
this horse to death. Yes. All right. Well, that
Well, I mean, that kind of takes me back to a couple as I said
this couple of weeks ago and I'm not sure that I made a good
point of it. But it seems to me that the hosting companies that
are successful in an organic way, and I don't mean like with
an exit strategy or a buy up, I mean, they're, they're just
naturally successful. The ones that I'm seeing that are that,
that are that they are successful because they're
doubling down on what podcasting core core customer is. And I
don't mean, on the listener side, I mean, on the, on the on
the host side, on the host on the podcast, creator side, it's
day, but they are companies that are saying, Okay, we know that
50% of the entire market is our independent podcasters who don't
necessarily even care about monetizing them. And they're
saying, Okay, we're going to serve that audience. Those are
our customers. And we're going to make podcasting. super
enjoyable for them. We're never even going to mention
programmatic, we're not going to do any of that stuff. We're just
going to double down on this. Yeah, this segment, I
think, I think there's probably there's probably a middle ground
there. And I think what what I was interested in Mark and Kira
and doing it to captivate is that they changed the, the
unofficial sort of slogan of their, of their company over to,
you know, we are here for the serious independent podcaster.
And I really liked that serious independent podcast is somebody
who isn't doing it as a hobby, which is what anchor is there
for. It's somebody who is, you know, clearly not part of the
big, you know, the big groups, they're not, they're not going
out finding, finding, you know, corporate clients, and then
everything else, they are specifically there for the
serious independent podcaster. And I thought that that's,
that's a neat plan. And if you build the tools that a serious
independent podcaster might want, you might end up building
a DIY solution as Captivate did, yeah. But that's a DI solution
that 10% 15% of their customers will use, but it's a well
executed one that, you know, that will keep those customers
that want to di, you know, plan with with that particular
company, you know, and similarly, you know, if you
want, you know, all manner of these other, you know, there are
some podcasters that want you to have magic mastering as
Buzzsprout to where, you know, it did sorts out your, your
levels and everything else. And that's, and that's great stuff.
I think, I think where you're seeing interesting podcast hosts
moving is adding a bunch of additional features for those
people that would use those to make it harder for them to
switch away.
It's all it's always a great way to I mean, that's the only true
way to compete is on features and service. At a price. Sure,
but ultimately, it comes down to you know, people will pay for
something they really like.
Yeah. And and, you know, it's what I liked about the captivate
you know, I mean, again, you were you were you were saying
earlier that it took me a while to get on board with the whole
idea of cryptocurrency. It also took me a time to get on board
with the way that captivate was charging its customers. Because
unlike anybody else, Captivate was charging his customers based
on the total downloads that you get, and you look at that, and
you go, that's a weird way of charging people, nobody else
charges people that way. So if I get 30,000 downloads, and I'm
going to pay more than than a podcaster, that gets 10,000
downloads, and then you look at it the other way around, and you
go well, a that's where the main cost is that and customer
support. But also be the more successful your podcast is, the
more you'll end up paying, which means that the company really
wants to make your podcast really successful. You know,
yeah, so actually, it says it's this sort of, you know,
interesting, virtuous circle in terms of, you know, in terms of
a way in a way
that also forces you into into monetizing, though, that that
forces you to have to monetize at a certain level. I mean, that
it just pushed.
But I think, you know, once you've once you've reached
10,000 downloads per per episode, then it's the sort of
thing that you're likely to be considering monetizing anyway,
but you but you could be monetizing in a in a much nicer
way than a 32nd ad. Yeah.
You know, we've we've successfully spoken about
nothing in podcasting 2.0 For the past year. I'm very proud of
us for that. I do want to
relate to the shows podcasting. 1.0 Right. Well, but
this is interesting, and I think relevant and I don't know James
if you had much time to think about this, but this keeps
popping up to me in the honestly I find it annoying, but I'm I'm
cognizant that this is what this is going to be with us. It's
coming and there's so many different versions. Have what it
means. And that's web three. And what I feel coming is this
bullcrap term that has been created for Silicon Valley
companies. Basically, it's replaced blockchain for Silicon
Valley companies to raise money on to go ahead and build things
and give away more free crap to prove that the distributed world
that they own the distributed world, which of course, is
insane on its face, because the whole idea is this distribute
distributed everything. And really, and I've written several
definitions. And I think the, in fact, it's interesting how
podcasting 2.0 Fits is, to some degree, the idea is distributed
load and distributed share in what I call the value flow, but
that would be micropayments, or money or some other some other
value transfer. And that is, you know, clearly a lot of that's on
blockchain. But somehow it's a, it's a bit of a combination of
how value for value. Streaming payments works with the app,
developer getting a piece and the value splits. At the same
time, it's part of what Brian of London has done with his, his
hive contraption and what's happening over there. Yeah, so
that's kind of the open the open world that's really kind of
really doing this and the Dow's the distributed autonomous
organizations that are using smart contracts to you know,
invest in a cause or do something positive that that
community wants, all away from Silicon Valley. So that means at
the same time for me, and this is I'm going to get to a
question eventually, is, it feels like web three will bring
a lot of opportunity, and a lot of tools that will be really
helpful for everybody that ultimately, these companies may
never be able to monetize or exit from. But there's gonna be
a lot of money pouring into this, this kind of concept, and
that could obliterate the entire storage and bandwidth issue for
every single hosting company we're talking about. Which
literally, then brings it down to features and service.
Yeah, and, you know, I mean, I think, I think, I think features
and services is, is is the way to go. And, yeah, I mean, it
does worry me that, you know, and you've put it so eloquently
there, Adam, that, you know, the whole point, in a lot of what is
going on here is making sure that there isn't one company in
charge of anything. And I think that's the, it's the
frustrating, but also brilliant thing about the podcasting 2.0
stuff that you've been doing is that nobody is actually in
charge of, you know, is in charge of anything terms of how
that how the system works, and, you know, etc. And that means
that it's slower, because you haven't got large, a large
company pushing it because they they won't make money from, you
know, their, for their VCs. Because it isn't a proprietary
thing. But it also means that it is, or it should be more, more
permanent, because everybody owns it, because it's available
to everybody. And I think that's the I was thinking about this,
this this morning, that there's a big there's a big amount of
friction between the corporate world, the VC funded corporate
world, and podcasting, because podcasting has always been
designed to be open to be as available on as many different
platforms as you possibly can, because of the great work that
you that you're doing, Adam, and and the frustration is seeing
companies like Spotify go, Well, we're going to do video
podcasting in a different way. And an Amazon going well, we're
going to do, you know, transcripts in a, you know, in
in our own way. And you know, and the creators aren't actually
going to be given the chance to edit their own transcripts,
which is mental. And all of that kind of stuff of that that to me
is is the real friction going on at the moment. I mean, I was
reading something yesterday, the BBC sounds app. So the app that
the BBC uses to do live radio and podcasts and everything
else, they were crowing about the fact that they've had 25%
More podcast listeners this year than they had last year within
their app. But what they're not releasing is the total amount of
podcast downloads that they've had in the last year in
comparison to the before, across all platforms. They're just
focusing on their app because it's it's our app and we own it.
You know, it's
a New York Times is about to do the same thing. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. And
you know, I always, I always talk about and this is sort of
radio jargon. But I always talk about these apps being p one
apps, there are apps for the people who, who, who already
have a preference number one, for this particular company. So
the New York Times audio app is going to be downloaded by people
who love the New York Times. And that's great. But people who
don't love the New York Times are never going to download this
thing. Because why on earth would they, whereas a podcast
app has all of their stuff in it anyway. And a good podcast that
will help people find new shows that they haven't yet found. And
so actually, a good podcast app is so much better to these
companies than building their own stuff, when that's sticking
their own stuff into a, you know,
that's what I would love to see. And corporations can do this.
But hobby clubs and individuals, I would love to see it. Even if
just a web app. You know, I'm a big fan of the web app. Just,
you know, like, how about True Crime only, you know, and curate
the homepage or whatever I you know, I can see what the
knitting knitting communities huge and curate the homepage. He
got something going there. It's not that hard. Yeah, I mean, I'm
saying that, yeah, simply. But there's open source code
available. We can have so many different types of apps for
specific groups. I've no problem with that.
But so there's a there's an app, which launched yesterday on both
iOS and Android. So on real phones and, and pretend ones
with you on that. James, you know that
called Apollo? And Apollo is a podcast out but it's just for
fiction podcasts. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Really talking about that?
Yep. So it's got a better list of genres. It's got a better
it's got more curated playlists in there. Right tools
specifically for fiction podcast listeners, but of course, great
Gray,
they need to be, you know, on 2.0, they need to be using
chapters, and they they have it that 2.00 No,
but they Mote they most certainly do. And every time I
have quite a few podcast app developers call, you know, call
me and, and, and have a chat. And, you know, we're still at a
point where we need to be talking to these folks. And
going well, you know, please. I mean, I had somebody yesterday,
who was saying, What can I do to get you onto my news social
podcast app, and it's another one of these social podcast apps
with comments and everything else. And I'm just going, I'm
not really that interested in another proprietary social
podcast app, if you're using the open the open, you know, cross
across that comments, then great. I'll happily I'll promote
you jump into this. And I don't, but I don't want to be Yeah, but
I don't want to be, you know, another podcast app with another
siloed set of comments that I'll never get to read anyway. We're
gonna fix that next year, be the point of that.
We're gonna fix the the comments, we're fixing that.
That's a no, it's gonna be great about that. To your to your
point about corporate friction versus open source open projects
like podcasting. 2.0. Yeah, ultimately, when cross app
comments are functioning, it will be because thoughtfulness
went into it. And love. Hmm, that's the I mean, there's real
thoughtfulness about the future about scenarios about all
stakeholders. The I, I've said it before, but the the
development work and just even being able to, to, to kind of
tag along and see how this comes together. It's one of the most
beautiful things I've ever seen in my life. I really love this.
This is so beautiful to see. And and if you want more,
one more word,
yeah, thank you. I'm running out
in its obsession as well. But people are actually are actually
obsessed with making podcasting better. Yeah, whether that's
whether that's adding cross app, comments, because we can see the
real benefits of that, whether it's the whole value for value
thing, whether it's, you know, just the basics of, you know,
some apps out there having difficulties resizing images, so
the podcast images, you know, namespace tag, you know, all of
that stuff. It's all born out of real real obsession. And yes,
you know, and I think that's a great I think that's a great
thing if we can if we can harness that right I think
that's a fantastic that that was
being interviewed by Chris Fisher the other day on on their
podcast network and he's, I made this comment with him is that
when it when it comes to when it comes to all these types, And,
and that kind of thing. The beauty of it is that now there's
a place to go. It's as I was making the point that way, as
soon as you start doing open standards work, immediately the
from on high, you start getting pelted with XKCD, comic
references and you just start getting chastised about you
know, it's like, Well, okay, yeah, I get it. Okay, fine. Sure
the funding tag, there was already a tag in the atom
namespace with lino rel equals payment, blah, blah, blah. Sure,
I get it. There was already a Yahoo media media, RSS namespace
and some stuff in there that could possibly have been
shoehorned into an alternate enclosure type scenario. Maybe.
The problem with those things, though, is that nobody knows
who's in control of it. There's no working group that anybody
can put their hands on or email. The RSS coalition is died years
ago. Do controls Dublin Core? Anybody? I don't know, who
controls me. I mean, Yahoo's been bought and sold 15 times
that none of these existing namespaces that did that people
reference every occasionally on Twitter, I'll get a post saying,
Why did you why did you create this tag, you could have used,
you know, DC content, blah, blah, blah? Well, you know, I'm
sorry, but Dublin Core, as far as I know, there's no human
being alive, that actually is in charge of that thing, or
extending it or changing it in any way. The fact that there's a
podcast namespace is, is an open modern group on GitHub, did
exist, that somebody can go and petition and say, Hey, this
thing works almost the way I need it to work. But there's one
thing that might be missing that can make it work better in this
scenario. And you post there, and you may have 10 people reply
to you and say, oh, yeah, this, I could see this, they could
work this way. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's a living,
breathing spec, it with with people attached to it. And
that's something that RSS, and especially RSS namespace
extensions haven't had in a very long time. And so that's, if
there's one thing. So I guess what I'm trying to say is,
you're right, it's an obsession. And, and it's, it's care. But
also, it's just showing up. Because there's a lot of things
that podcasting could already almost do. But it just lacked
that final sort of 10% to bring it up to be what a modern thing
of what a modern specification would need to operate. Because
the law, so many of these namespaces have existed for 15
years. And they'd more like the blueberry, the blueberry
namespace, their true voice or whatever it's called, that spec
Had Allah had a lot of interesting stuff. But it was
built at a time it was created at a time 15 years ago, where a
lot of modern tech, the way we use the internet doubt didn't
even exist, rest API's didn't exist. The it was built at a
different moment in history. So
and of course, the other and the other side of it was that it was
owned, it was owned by Todd's company brand. So what you've
basically then gone is you got Lipson going, Well, why would we
want that? Because that's that that's owned by the competitor.
And that's the beauty of what you've done is that you have
something which I mean, it is owned, but it's owned. It's not
owned by a big podcast publisher, nor is it owned by a
big podcast hosting company,
they'll say you JG opportunities you've built as much as this
namespaces we have. So that's the there's the that's the
shared, that's the shared, shared enjoyment of health, the
farthest thing is gone. What what do you think, on that note,
what do you think is the most important to I think transcript
I think maybe we can all agree that that's the most important
thing. Present, I
think, I think right now transcript is really exciting.
So you've got a script, which literally over the weekend, did
some additional work on their systems to output the right.
standard
JSON and
TT Oh, they
do VTT fine. Yeah.
Yeah. And, and so they, they, they ended up doing that so that
so that you've got the files now completely automatically, that
work with the podcast transcript namespace. So, if I add this
cost money
D script does. But, but the fact that They are building that in a
great interesting, I mean was great. Wouldn't it be great if
there was a if there was an open source, you know, version that
would just produce the the, the transcripts, that'd be
fantastic.
What I'd like to do is I'd like to market them if so do you
basically hand off your mp3 and boom, you get the file back that
you need. You know, anyone who has this kind of service I want
to promote, because, you know, this is, this is a big thing.
Now, people are saying, hey, we need these for legal reasons, as
you pointed out, many times, so, but also,
but also for, for advertising reasons. Because if you can see
what's in the audio, then you know, what's being talked about,
and you can then target the adverts much, much better. Now,
none of none of us might want that. But on the other side,
actually, if that's going to make the adverts slightly less
bad than that's probably a good thing, too. Yeah. So I think so
I think there's real opportunity. And it's also a
really simple thing for a podcast host to support. You
know, it's it's a couple of fields, and is available. I
mean, producing the transcript is different producing the
transcript is complicated. But to support just, you know,
here's here's a transcript file, stick this somewhere on a server
and stick this in the RSS feed is super, super simple. Well,
and so I think, you know, the more of that the we can get, the
better. But I I certainly see as podcast transcripts being, you
know, a real a real opportunity to get into the majority of
podcast hosts, maybe in the next three months.
Yeah. For me, for me, the most important thing that I would
would love to see more integration of his pod ping.
Yeah, I think once. Once pod ping really takes off the power
of pod ping, it's so fun to say. Because, you know, you can tap
into the chain for all kinds of different shit. You know, it's
not just to get into podcast index. I mean, holy crap. Even
if you're just aggregating feeds, if you just want to have
feeds for yourself, you know, if you just want to look at things
or learn something, or look at trends, or, you know, and then
it's like a, it's like a burst of, of data that spews out every
10 seconds, and oh, look, it's got a tail and what's Oh, it's a
transcript attached to it. I mean, if we're doing split
second, just to play that hat, if we're doing split second
advertising, you know, auction decisions, programmatically,
wouldn't you want that kind of data data is always going to be
very valuable. So the more more we put into pod ping, the more
valuable it is, and the more valuable it is for everybody,
because that's something that really no one owns.
Now, but I bet you can you can kind of almost see the
differences here being podcast transcript is something that
doesn't exist as a standard that needs to exist because there's
real legal benefit for it to exist quite apart from the
accessibility which is obviously something which is which is
rather more important than then conversations about legality
that that's on one side, you've got pod ping on the other that
makes something that podcasting already does a bit better. And
so I can well see that some people are turning around and
saying well, we've just built you know, I mean, Apple for
example, they've just built their massive great big RSS
scraper that now touches my RSS feed every five minutes or so.
And so why why would they want to retool their their stuff
because it works well enough. And you can kind of see though
those those two sort of different issues one of them is
we haven't got this we need this now. And the other side is we've
got this it's not quite good enough, but it's probably good
enough for what we want at the moment and we don't want to
spend the time or I think pod ping is harder but I can I can
absolutely see this see the benefit of it
I guess. I guess I see pod ping is something it's so universal
it's it's such a fantastic idea in its and you just have for me
it's like I pull my myself out of podcasts index pull away from
the apps even Kier is a it's a fire hose that spews out really
rich data every 10 seconds. And it's it can be used for
entertainment for research for so many different things. Now we
happen to sit on on one side with podcast index, and we're
doing one function of that. So just outside I mean, why
wouldn't musicians use this? You know, hear it or? I mean this, I
can come up with a million reasons. It just seems like a
signal mechanism there that we've not had before. This
isn't, you know, this was web blogs.com, which, by the way
sold for a million bucks. And a long time ago, when a million
dollars was now a trillion.
I think there's a vision gap, I think there's with it, this is
what I've seen with a lot of these sort of forward looking
looking things that we have going on, is that there's sort
of the immediate benefit that everybody may see, but only some
may find compelling. So something like pod paying would
be like, well, you can get notified of episodes sooner.
Well, that's great. But that may not, that's compelling to me,
and to a lot of people, but it may not be compelling to
everyone. But then there's also this long term vision where we
see that down the road, something like live
notifications, or a podcast, or this podcast feed has switched
from this host to this other host movement, move
notifications, things like this that are that are things that
are actually very, very difficult to figure out. And
then it does become compelling. So I think there's a gap in
vision here that takes it's like when you're when you're the sort
of inventor or, or the the idea behind you see the idea behind
it, like the podcasting 2.0 community does, you see it in
full, and it's really hard to get everybody else onto that
page. So to me that just, but what I see that has to happen in
situations like that, is we just have to build the things. You
have to build a building.
Yeah, I mean, I think shows two sides of that one, I found
writing the tech stuff section every Monday is trying to
explain what's been going on in the namespace to explain it to
somebody that isn't that interested in it in the first
place. And that's been really interesting. So actually
explaining why you might want this the new podcast images tag,
for example, explaining what you can do with that, that actually
below a certain size, you might want to get rid of the lettering
from your, you know, artwork. So it's just a nice, a nice icon,
whatever it whatever it might be. And I think that that's
probably something that we should focus on a little bit
more in 2022 is actually explaining, I think there's, I
think probably the folks in podcast, index dot social, are
too clever, too intelligent, and have already assumed that
everybody else understands where they're going and understands
what this stuff is capable off. And I'm not sure that that's the
case. And I think it would be good for us to focus a little
bit more on just writing down what you could do with some of
this stuff, why this particular tag is important. What why this,
you know, why you should be implementing this particular
tag, because I think the more of that the weakened due to
educate, then the faster the the that podcast 2.0 will actually
get there. Well,
I think things like bringing in the Peter wells of the world, is
that what you're saying?
I mean, whether or not whether or not you Yeah, whether or not
you want to go that far, but I think I think just you know,
just just just pointing to, you know, this is the sort of thing
that you can do with this tag. So this is what you can do with
this tag right now. And this is the sort of thing that you could
do with this tag in the future. And explaining those sorts of
things. So explaining the alternate enclosure, for
example, or the alternate enclosure tag could be a really
interesting tag which enables you to do all kinds of things
from very low bitrate versions for countries where data is
expensive to video versions where you can just switch
automatically between the audio and the video stream and you
know in your in your client or whatever it is that you're
actually doing or a bunch of other things as well you know, a
director's cut,
James James, what I like is that you're so incredibly good at
that and I want you to continue to write that you need to write
these things down. What works in my mind is that's at one level
but you know even even highly technical people when they see
heli pad they go oh crap now I get it. Yeah,
we use pad is heavy pad is is going to be super good when that
gets into the Umbral, you know, App Store properly. That's so
so so you're both right, you're both right. You're both right on
this. Now. I like showing products. I like showing product
is a great product. It's an outstanding product. Gentlemen,
shall we thank a few people and then wrap this up so that
everybody can Get on with their with their with their Christmas
celebrations.
Oh yes.
Let's think people next do that. I hope you I hope that you got
my my booster Oh
I got it I got it
hold on a second dry roll out the single yet Dave is a time.
Well,
we can we can start with James cuz he he bet us he bet you a
million dollars. Hold on
shot Carla 20 blades. Oh man Paula Yes.
James bet you a million dollars. Yeah, that and I have I have
audio proof of this. It is Cridland bet. Jingle
Oh, you have you have you brought it holy crap. Oh, I
didn't realize you actually. Okay, here.
This is record. This is a recording of James at the very
tail end saying how much he's going to bet
a million dollar. Yeah, you're right. I remember that. I
remember exactly that on the episode. 1 million. Now the
unfortunately it was in that is in a Bitcoin value in 10 years.
So he's giving me the discounted rate, I believe.
Oh, I thought it was a million Australian dollars.
That's about two, what was the Betty? What was the bed about
James?
So the bet was that Apple podcasts would launch Apple
podcasts on Android by the end of 2021. Because they're not
stupid. And it turns out that they are stupid.
Now, why have you given up before the end of the year? I
mean, that couldn't wait one more thing?
Because I I would doubt that Apple are going to launch
something that big. I mean, you know, I mean, the BBC launched
the BBC iPlayer on Christmas Day. So you never know. I mean,
it could it could happen. But I think no, I'm not. I'm not so
sure. So yeah, I am absolutely convinced, by the way that they
are going to do it. And I'm convinced that in probably next
year, would you like to double down?
Let me read the note. Let me read the note as Jane and James
Cridland through the fountain apps in 100,000 SATs.
That is the correct amount. That is what the bet was? Yes. And he
says
so you were right. No Apple podcasts on Android in 2021.
Same bed again for 2022. Ah,
well before we discussed that. You posted a you posted a
picture on podcast index dot social of of your transfer. And
what was very disappointing James is I saw that the per
minute value you have podcasting. 2.0 is three sets
per minute.
You outed yourself as a cheapskate I mean, you are
perhaps
the cheapest, cheapest journalist I've ever met in my
entire life. I mean, do you really get that little from this
show?
To be honest, I've got no idea. Why is that at that level? What
level should it be set at Adam curry
mindset at 100? I think that's
okay, too. Okay, for those of us for those of us that aren't, you
know, for those of us that didn't spend billions of dollars
in the 1990s on on on a helicopter fuel? What would be
be that sensible? Number of sets? 100?
Yeah, what do you say? What do you have Dave? 33
None man set at 50 Typically, but then on on the down jacket
100 For
podcasts live but you but you you boost extraordinary amounts.
I do it. This is the beauty of it. Everyone can set it to what
they want. And I just presume that day really is like you see,
nobody should show you know, well, I've seen those three sets
come in. So I know you're listening.
But nobody, but nobody knows what other people have set them
to. That's the thing.
Yeah, but you've doxxed yourself in the worst possible way. You
know, I know. Yeah, you should do. Everyone should have it.
Like I'm gonna set mine to a custom number. I'm gonna set it
to 67 now, because that is a number. Yeah, that's the number
of this Everyone knows that. It's me that's listening.
By the way, James you referred to I think it was on pod land.
You referred to the podcasting 2.0 community as the task force,
I guess in 2.0 Task Force. I forgotten that. I actually
prefer this the the term strike team
that means something very different in France.
Okay, let's see who we got. Oh,
wait, so are we doubling down you want to do a another for
next year James?
Oh, we couldn't we can we can. Yeah, we can do that. Again for
next year. If you like what does doubling down mean? Does that
mean? I'm not a betting man. Does that mean does that mean?
It's now 200
You're going to lose twice as much is what that means? I think
let's, let's let's in at the end of next year, Dave, you'll be
our witness. I think we did 100,000 SATs I think cuz I
reserve this amount. I think we should do a million SATs.
Whoa, what even is a million set
today? 400 bucks.
That's right. That's a that's a bad one that makes you do it. It
says What if What if bitcoin goes to 200,000? Then Then
you're gonna go? No,
I'll be. I'll be I'll be extremely happy that I made my
friend James Cridland know if he wins, I'd be very happy but
like, holy crap, man. I'm giving you a million SATs. That was 400
bucks now it's 40,000. Congratulations. I just paid for
your extension. We're gonna
do 200,000 sets. Okay. 200,000 sets shaves. You say Holy crap.
I've already signed my name is done. You can tell them as a way
to tell you so those kids in the house so Okay, yeah. If anybody
from
Apple is listening, and they wouldn't mind giving me a little
bit of emojis would be good if anybody was listening. Thanks,
James. Your your your stand up guy. I appreciate you. Coming
through on that bet.
John Shijie sent us 2000 sets and he's from CAST ematic and he
says boosting from CAST ematic whilst I'm writing an article
about boosting from CAST ematic Love Your Work guys keep it up.
Boost boost that one cracks me up okay at some of that didn't I
did not print out all of these so I'm actually reading them off
the screen which gives me the crave but today oh rush boost.
From Harry pilgrims through breeze app. He sent 2112 And he
says if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice
free will boost from Harry pilgrim that those are lyrics
from a rush song. Ooh,
by the way, very nice.
See, sir Spencer gave us 12,345 SATs.
Ooh, nice.
Yeah through fountain and he says it's busy times for
podcasting 2.0 stuff. We now have a working raspy blitz
installation script for Dave's heli pad app. Hey, nice. Thanks
to the help testing and fixing from C Dubs and Abel Kirby and I
are launching our value for value album in one week on
Christmas Eve
Yeah, this thing is going to be they've some screenshots of the
mixer the mix down whatever they're doing, and it's gonna be
like a million trillion gigabytes of shit. I can't wait.
I can't wait. I'll be boosting that one man.
Just waiting for those medium and live tags to drop and then
we can water SE and then the water will really be churning.
Go podcasting.
Yes. Oh, yeah. Where's my jingle?
James, do you have any interest whatsoever in the live tag?
Me personally, I'm not sure that I do because I know full well.
Every LIVE TAG is going to be live at three o'clock in the
morning. Yes, thanks. Australian timezones. But, but I can see
it, I can see it being useful. You know, I mean, there are some
times when I'm up and I would like to see you to watch for
example, the new media show so I can tell Todd and Rob when I
think so. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that.
Chad Pharaoh's and his 3333 sets through fountain he says Thanks
for the kind words. Well, you're welcome. Very nice.
Thank you, man. Always there.
Yep. Oh, Harry Duran from podcast junkies. Huh. He's he
found he sent us out through 1111 SATs through fountain he
says I can't think of a more perfect example of value for
value than this explanation of the 4.6 million podcasts in a
way that makes sense. Yeah, up the great work. Dave and Adam
curry from podcast junkies
was a dynamite explanation boost.
Yeah, he has got so behind value for value as well. Harry, he's,
he's a great guy. I've met him a number of times. He's just got
so behind it. So really, really good to see him getting there.
Yes, I was hearing him. He intros his show with a two.
Yeah, he's in there. Chad Farrow again. Give us 3333 sets and he
says love the JCD boost boost boost jingle boost boost boost.
I tricked him into doing that. Did you kind of
you egged him on until he broke he doesn't know. Let's see Harry
Duran again. Repeat customer 3333 sets and he says just got
inspired by the bus jingle. Hopefully this is enough to ask
Adam to invent a promo for podcast junkies on the spot. Go
podcasting. Ooh. If you listen to podcast junkies, no,
I think I think Wait, hang on. I've been on podcast junk. I
think I have to listen to it before I can do that before I
can do a jingle. Okay, all right. Well I need I need some
creative direction. Could you guys boost us some creative
direction?
Yes. Yes, that needs to we will return to this.
Yes, I want to do that. But you know, people are asking for this
now and, you know, it's all gonna sound the same. If I just
do it on the fly.
Yeah, I will bring actually had a clip of Harry Duran and I'll
bring that next time. Good
guy wants some creative direction from them to some
input. All right. This is kind of like a podcast version of
cameo. Cameo app.
I don't I don't know what candy Oh, well.
You can pay like $1,000 and Snoop Dogg will do a video
message for you. Okay, they tried to get me to do that
several times. Like now I won't do that.
When you first set it. The thing I envisioned in my head was the
masked singer. That stupid show.
Oh, goodness, the masking Yeah, the masking.
I was thinking about what up was yeah, that's with
the car. Yeah, that's what I thought of the red pants
codpiece. Right
right up there alongside bucks phase.
Yeah, that's why we know so well. Yeah.
Was the shot shocks. Some was it other band you referenced?
shock? Shock this something
that happened Demas and pliers.
That's it. That's it. Chicago. Yeah. 49 see, John's BRT gave us
4949 sets the the fountain app una says recently went over a
million Sasa support using the fountain app, go podcasting.
Beautiful. I say go John's BRT.
Yeah, real.
Thank you, man. Peter gave us 3333 sets in his messages. Pew
pew.
Oh, hold on a second. I don't I don't have that one handy, but
it is like what I should because it's the official sound of the
helipad. It needs to go into Rotation here.
It was It cracked me up when in right now. Luke from from the
Umbral it was we're chatting on telegram and the pew pew hit and
he was like whoa,
what the hell? That thing's really cool man.
Cast pillon gave us 33 SATs through the fountain app and he
says boost Chris Fisher. Oh yeah. Yep. Chris is the guy that
from Kota radio and Jupiter broadcasting.
Okay, have it in the system now. Pew.
Nice setup. CASS gave us another 33 SATs it says boost Chris.
Okay. Boosts Yeah, we can do that.
Boost. See 2000 SATs front. Ooh, this is Anonymous. Anonymous
through breeze. Add to that 1000 says I don't understand this
message. It's just says based period. Or if you're British,
full stop. Did I get that right? Is it full of sounds? That
was excellent. Excellent punctuation there. Yes. Very
good.
Thank you. All right. I mean, I am asking the vendors of it. You
know, the English language by
the way. I should. I should also say that Dave, Dave Jackson got
in touch with me and said where are all of these boosts jingles.
And they are available on GitHub, but they're not on the
podcast index. GitHub. Are there. Is there a child? Is
there a chance of getting them in there as well?
Yeah, we could. We could fork that over. Yeah, sure. Huh.
I think that'd be handy because nobody can find them. And I'm
there. I'm there. Finally. Yeah, I covered it. Always.
Always have a link in the show notes. Every single show notes.
Episode has a link to the boost bait. And that's that's the
direct link. Yeah,
yeah. I'm making a note to fork that over. And let's see. Uh,
last month Oh, here it is. Oh, Mere Mortals.
This is a productive board meeting. Oh, yeah.
It is. what it's all about. It's this is the part we love.
Yes. Mere Mortals. Karen. He gave us 11,234 SAS sorry,
students 35 sets to fountain he says wow the video playing on
podcast guru was amazing very very cool. I created a clips
channel searchable under mere mortals three speak and it works
perfectly there. Merry Christmas to all of podcasting 2.0
Ah, Merry Christmas to you
such good guys. Oh I do want to make before we get out of here
do you want to make fun of NF T's real quick after we finish
this
no I want to leave on a high note I want to I want it to be a
good ending. Let's be positive Dave
positive. I'm making fun of Venus teases hilarious
no because all right just pollutes the timeline comics you
bloggers gonna post and he's gonna tell us we're stupid.
make a joke about it about you getting no flipping thing? Yes.
He'll do a car too. It's not worth the aggro.
Okay, fine. We'll make fun of it next week. There you go. Cast
Pilant. Again 3267. SAS the the fountain app and he says, Love
to test IPFS stuff. Yeah, I'm on IPFS since 2016 When BT sync,
left no agenda check out Open. Open hooft.nl o n o ofd.
Yeah. Open host means open head for some reason. Open hoeft dot
open hosts open Host. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I know who he
is. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to some IPFS in
the in the coming years. Well,
yeah, me too. Oh, 5555 sets. I get that a sack of fives. I
don't know what what's special about the 5555. That's the
breeze and Satoshi string. Oh, this may be from Satoshi stream,
says Satoshi stream now used by 250 podcasts.
Ooh. dynamize. That stream. Did you go?
That's a good stat. And Brian mozzie. Is that right? Brian?
Yeah, that's Brian. He sent us 11,722 SATs through fountain. He
says Same reason I'm always boosting lately. New timestamp.
One hour, 17 minutes and 22 seconds. I don't know what that
is to look it up. I came on prepared for this. Okay, so la
nomics. Oh, that's the under the bus jingle that you did. 16 is a
1666. SAS the fountain. He says, Hey, Adam and Dave, thanks for
the under the bus jingle.
You're relevant. Yeah, we
said we love it. Thank you. Well, thank
you for the tip. You didn't have to thank me for that. You
already paid with a boost previously?
That's true. He paid in events. Yeah, we wanted. Okay, we wanted
a Dutch cockney accent that maybe that would have been too
much. Dutch cockney.
I don't think I can do that.
What is it? Is that a thing?
I know I don't think this is James and I had a love child
then maybe we could check that but
James, do you have what would be considered a Cockney accent? No.
I have a very boring BBC received pronunciation is what
is called. Yes, I'm afraid.
No. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't know what an example of a
Cockney accent would be but I can find it
is cool. Blimey cough. Have you watched Mary Poppins?
Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay, yeah, that's basically it. How
would you how you would How would you possibly merge that
with a Dutch accent? I have no idea that this is impossible.
Accounting, I sent you an anonymous 5k Set boost from
breeze a further 1666 from fountain to reach the 10,000
total Mark notice just had to figure out how to split the
bill. No, not figure out the split bit. That's what he said.
This proves beyond doubt podcasting podcasting. 2.0
works. Happy Christmas. Erin.
Airy Duran follows it up with another one a second ones? And
he says, heard you mentioned James as next week's guest.
Well, it's this week's guest actually, imagine if hosts a
vote. Want to ask James a question. Who's now read out the
highest boosts first Andy How you doing booster? Exactly. Mind
blown Harry from podcast junkies echo. Yep. See, I think we had a
PAL is well, or thought we did think we had good. Oh, yeah,
yeah, we did. We got some we got a couple months here is a short
is short time period. So we didn't have much, but we get an
anonymous $25 PayPal. Thank you anonymous survey of ash gave us
$5 Keith gifts and gave us $25 Thank you, Keith, you rock
steady every month. I appreciate it. Duane Goldie gave us $8 And
Paul Erskine gave us $11.14
And we thank everybody for supporting podcasting 2.0 the
podcast but the entire project it goes straight into liquidity
for the node it goes into. Well, of course part of it goes to t
shirt T shirts. We we all do like the T shirts. But it really
keeps the infrastructure running and We highly appreciate it go
to podcast index.org. At the bottom there's a Donate button
where we finally have I think a service we can get a QR code to
scan for one off donations. But above all, if you can boost we
want to get your boost, boost boost and a portion of today's
show we'll also go to our guest James Cridland. We will assign a
33% splits and said you know you were definitely third, a third
of the whole system here. Yeah, we really appreciate it. And
thanks for a great year. James, I look forward to oh, there's my
dinner ready. Look forward to all of the trouble we're going
to get into and all the arguments and good things that
will come out of the coming year.
Yeah, I look forward to it, too. Thank you so much for everything
that you've done for podcasting, both in the dim and distant past
and over the last year as well. So thank you. Thank you very
much.
That was yeah, that was great. Thanks, James. I appreciate it.
Well, I'm looking forward to this. You know, I'm looking
forward to the next year. And what what's one thing that you
think just kind of lead us out a little bit? What is one thing
that you think that you are the most excited about as far as
anything to do with the namespace or podcasting to put
out? What's your big, what's your big hope for 2022?
I think I've got a couple. I think one of the big hopes is
that the podcast transcript tag is pretty well, universally
token taken up, it'll be good for creators, because we would
be able to control what our transcript said, but also good
for, you know, good for everybody good for
accessibility, good for podcast apps, everything else. So I
think that that would be, that's the kind of the low hanging
fruit. And I would hope that more people, one of the things
that concerns me a little bit about booster grams and value
for value is that there are some people who are using it. But it
doesn't necessarily feel to me as if it's growing that much.
And it doesn't necessarily feel to me as if it's breaking
through to new people that aren't already into this sort of
things. So I would really like to see much more of that in
2022, of actually, you know, seeing different names in the
histogram list of seeing more people being involved. And I
think, you know, helping as many podcasts be into, you know,
value for value is, I think, a really good thing. And that goes
for both the technical side, but I think it also goes for the,
you know, just the, the sight of well, what is it that you say in
your podcast? Should you do a boost gram corner, the reason I
do a booster gram corner is that I know social proof that it
actually will mean that you get more boosts. And so you know, if
we if we can get more of that, more of that help next year, I
think that's super exciting. Because anything that offers an
alternative. It's not necessarily the end of
advertising, but it's an alternative to advertising. I
think that to me, is a really good thing for the health of the
industry, and frankly, the health of people as a whole. So
you know, super excited as to where that might go.
Awesome. Well, thanks for being on the show, man. It was just
it's been great working with you for the last year and a half or
however long it's been at this point. I'm I'm losing track of
time, but I'm good, Adam. Merry Christmas, James. Merry
Christmas.
Indeed. And Happy Christmas to you. And I look forward to
hopefully seeing you in the US at some point next year.
Yeah, that would be great.
Thank you again, James. That'll do it for the board meeting. The
pre Christmas board meeting of podcasting. 2.01 more before the
end of the year. Have a very Merry Christmas everybody. We'll
see you next
week. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org for more information. Boost boost