podcasting 2.0 for July 30 2021, Episode 48 we're checking out a
Heartbreak Hotel cryptic is ever right. Camera buddy. It is
Friday once again Time for a meeting of the Board for
podcasting 2.0 everything going on and podcast index dot Oregon
podcast index dot social. I am Adam Curry in the heart of Hill
Country Texas and an Alabama my peaceful fort in a stormy sea of
media madness my friend on the other end, Mr. Dave Jones
got to get. I've got to get my stuff ready for podcast
movement, man. I got to figure out how we're going to podcast
from there.
Yeah, are you what are you going? You're driving, right?
Yeah. Yeah, we're going to third, we're gonna drive up on
the third I believe is what our plan is. Okay. And they come in.
Think come back on Friday night. I think. So. I've got a podcast
from I guess from the hotel room.
Yeah, we'll bring your gear map. So you're not leaving?
In connection.
So you're leaving Saturday? Or Friday?
That's a good question. I don't know. What one of those Well,
you have to get a late check out if it's Friday. I believe me I
have experienced with with podcasting from hotel rooms.
Late
checking it out now.
Of course. Yeah, I'm gonna run the
show prep be damned. Late. Check that while it's while you're
watching me like I'm just gonna open the door everybody while
the wallet while you're just messing around. Make sure
everybody can come in here. Hey, everybody, come on in. Grab your
seat.
Y'all Sit down. I'm just typing.
Hey, man, I woke up this morning. And I had a million
things in my head.
That's a normal occurrence.
Yeah, what was a real day of clarity. Now I got up really
early, because I also had to do an interview for Sirius XM.
sirius xm 106 volume. And their morning show is Nick Carter,
formerly of Backstreet Boys. And I think Normally he is Laurie
medu. Ski on who is very, very accomplished in music.
Journalism. She started Spin Magazine. And then she was
executive editor at a whole bunch of other places. She
wasn't there today. But also Rob Tannenbaum who wrote the book,
oral history of MTV. It was fantastic. So I'm, I'm, I'm good
to go. Because we had a call yesterday, you, me, Eric, and
Tina, about the website and launching and, you know, our
real marketing communication strategies. And, and one of the
most complicated things we had we discussed, which, you know,
we like, okay, we're going to do it this way. But I think these,
these calls are really good, because it gets the juices
flowing for everybody. And you look at it the next day, it's
like, Okay, hold on a sec. And it was mainly the podcaster
part. You know, we, we all know that we want people to be driven
listeners who, who either go to new podcast apps calm or find
their way through the new path. But we want to get them to the
apps, we want them to try out a new podcast app. And then for
the podcasters. Now, podcasting 2.0 in the lexicon right now, in
general, it means value for value streaming payments,
whenever you hear someone talking about podcasting, 2.0,
that's that Bitcoin stuff. But we've really focused an enormous
amount of energy, in particular, you and the app developers on
the namespace features. So as I came to the realization
yesterday, that well, I'll take you down a path of a few clips
that I got, is that okay? Yeah, guess what is the board okay
with that.
We're good. James asleep.
So I want to talk about just these two things for people who
may be new, listening to the podcast in 2.0, board meeting,
value for value, and the model itself and the streaming
payments. And then we'll get into some of the ideas I had
about what we want to communicate to podcasters and
how we get how we onboard people. So the first thing, and
these are clips that I'm so happy I found and collected
throughout the week, is kind of proof that my concept of what
kancil culture is and where it comes from, is in fact correct.
And I've always said it's based on advertising advertising is
censorship. And why is that is because advertisers do not want
to be anywhere near controversy, which is the biggest problem for
podcast advertising. And when it comes to that, cancel culture
advert tising is leveraged against somebody is an
advertising is usually someone's lifeblood, it's how it's how
they, you know how they're making money with the product
they're creating. And it's very easy to say, Hey, Hey mister
advertiser, do you know this guy says this about those people or
he's a racist, whatever you want to say. And it works. It's very,
very effective. And the proof of this,
which we get those emails on on a regular basis Yes,
we get emails from people. I mean, I haven't talked about
that on Joe Rogan was hilarious to someone want to take down Tim
Dylan because he's anti gay. And Tim, Tim Dylan is gay. So you
know, it's like these these crazy types of things. And he's
very open about it, by the way. So I want to start off by
solidifying that, that statement that that's where kancil culture
comes from at its root with a clip from the sway podcast This
is Kara Swisher. Now despite that I hate listened to her
other podcasts pivot with Scott Professor Scott Galloway, which
is also a valid Listen, of course. I really do. Like when
she interviews people, particularly in technology, and
she had on Sridhar sway,
sway is the new york times one, right?
Yes, it's from New York Times. Exactly. Okay. And she had on
Sridhar Ramaswamy. And he is the CEO and co founder of Niva. And
Niva is this search engine, which does not monetize you, you
pay them for 95 a month. And, and it's as good as Google
Surprise, surprise, the people who started are x Google guys.
And so they've they've decided that advertising and selling
your data, but I'll just keep it advertising for a moment is not
the way forward for them. And they believe there's a
difference. I personally liked that idea. And it all comes down
to trust, of course. But his explanation of why he started
this and and what he felt about advertising inside Google,
really, and he was chief revenue officer, so that he was, you
know, C C suite level, he was the guy in charge of the money
coming in. And here's his thoughts on the matter.
So you left shortly after the 2017 controversy, where YouTube
videos of Exploited Children are running alongside ads. With
there's something that happened, is the timing a coincidence? Or
did that inspire your exit? Do you do just go enough of this?
I'm making nuclear weapons, and I don't want it or whatever,
right? You know what I mean? There's a lot of people that
have those moments. Was there a moment for you,
for me, 100%. On those were the things that first of all,
convinced me that I didn't want to work on ads anymore. When we
did ads on Google search, or even when I was running the
display ad ecosystem, we were very clear that being able to
run ads on these platforms was a privilege. For example, we had a
controversy around substance abuse treatments where Google
Search app, you know, wasn't able to tell who good players
versus not so good players was just withdrew from the area and
said, We need to figure this out. We're just not going to
show any ads. And search was big enough and powerful enough that
we could make a decision like this, and actually move forward
without a massive controversy. What was foundationally
different about the YouTube ecosystem was the role that
creators played. For the longest time, YouTube took this attitude
of should be able to say whatever you felt like on
YouTube, it was an open platform. So they gave the
illusion like a lot of social media platforms do that. Content
expression on them was akin to free speech that literally
anyone could say anything didn't really see a platform
responsibility for themselves. And so what ended up happening
was YouTube leadership was caught between a rock and a hard
position, where they had a set of very vocal creators that
genuinely believed that putting up content on YouTube, they're
getting the content monetized was something like a free
speech. Right. And I was dumbfounded by this. I was like,
really, like your ability to monetize content on a platform
is akin to the government guaranteeing free speech for
you. But that's the world that Google existed in on this may
change very hard. We had a set of advertisers that said, I want
no part of being next to bad content on YouTube, near a set
of creators that went, What do you mean, we can say whatever we
feel like just because you find it objectionable, should we not
be able to say, it became an impossible problem to solve. And
that was part of the contract for advertising, because we were
seen as supporting all kinds of actors, some of whom are very
disreputable. And to be the head of the team that was supporting
monetization was just not something that I was comfortable
with. That combined with the fact that I had been there for
15 years just made me say, Okay, time to press the reset button.
Time to start over. There you go.
They're very, very interesting.
Isn't that isn't that dynamite?
That that, I mean, I'm just gonna say that that was
validates, that validates everything that you've been
saying for the last 10 years.
Yes.
Thank you. And that one clip?
Yeah. And I love that he said rock, a rock and a hard
position. The rock and a hard place.
Yeah. That's I mean, that's just so that brings me to the a clip.
You're going to this is dynamic clip insertion into my stream. I
love it. All right, let's do it.
Let's do I'm gonna I'm gonna do your da right here. So this is
based, I think it's called I did not print my clipless. I'm going
off pure memory here. Please go Facebook authority.
Yeah. authoritative info.
Yeah, got it.
Facebook said the President was wrong. In a statement, the
company said, quote, more than 2 billion people have viewed
authoritative information from Facebook, about COVID and
vaccines.
So I want the reason I want to play that clip real quick. I
don't want to break your flow. But the the key part of that was
not true information. authoritative information.
Oh, yeah. That is a big difference between the two for
sure. And
that's all that matters is that it's authoritative. Because if
it comes from a government or an authority or a authority, it
doesn't matter if it's true. It just matters that it came from
them. Because that gives the cypa Yep. Exactly. Anyway, I
just want to throw that in.
So the so this is the problem that we've been struggling with.
And I love that he just said right up, they said, Hey, Google
didn't care really what you said until the advertisers
complained. So that's, and of course, that became leveraged by
political actors. And that's just been going on forever. So
back to the value for value model yesterday. Bond episode.
Hmm. I don't have it here. Yes, 1689, of the Joe Rogan
experience he had on the comedian Yanis papas, and they
were talking about canceled culture. A Joe is very big on
talking about canceled culture. And kind of unknowingly without
saying it, he explained a version of the value for value
model. And here's a minute of that conversation.
I think Adam Curry has a similar situation, right? He allows you
could pay whatever you want. I think Adams is free. Is it free?
Or is it you could pay whatever you want? I think you can pay
whatever you want. And some people will pay $1. And some
people he's like, some people pay a lot of money. Yeah, they
just say this is a great show. I want to support it. You know,
yes. There's some purity to that, you know, Vegas really is
it's a it's, it's a nice business model, where you have
like, a real like, Adam, in particular has a real
relationship with his fans. You know, it's like they're, it's,
it works out. Yeah. Like everybody agrees, you know, and
he's the he does not waver. And he does not censor himself
himself. He's, he's always telling you fucking the Straight
Dope. What no matter what, or how uncomfortable or how weird
the conversation is,
yeah. Yeah. And that that model is pure, straight to the fans,
no middleman, no. Corporate, you know, ethics office or whatever.
And people crave that people want that. And that's why this
is the success of that model is is the success that it is
because people want it.
So the only thing I don't agree with this, I it's not that I
have a great relationship with my fans. They're not fans, they
are producers. And I have always communicated This is what radio
figured out a long time ago. You need phone lines people calling
in, or you need location. And any podcast that does stuff on
location automatically goes up in the rankings. It's the
connection between those two. And so that while they didn't
specifically talk about value for value, you can see they
understand that something's working. Yeah, yeah. So then,
yesterday, I was listening to the new media show and something
beautiful happened. something beautiful happened between Todd
from blueberry. And Rob from Lipson. And it was right at the
top of the show. It was very important to them. When the show
must come out Wednesday, I guess the show is that when they
publish
it's mid weeks on. It's right before pod land and I have not
gotten behind. Oh my gosh. Lots of beautiful things happen on
video. Oh,
yeah. Well, yes, you're right. New Media show is just one big
ball of beauty. It is no clip that okay. So it's the top of
the show. This is important to them. And the following happens.
We had a shocker today.
I had a Yes we did. And I've actually got an email. I had a
PayPal payment hit the inbox that kind of bite I first of
all, I thought it had something to do with podcast words. But
then when I looked at it, it was the new media show. So all I can
say, and the person I think they want to stay, let me just read
this. First, it was significant. I'll just tell the audience that
says, hey, Todd and Rob. So this
is a big deal to him. Right? So signet significantly made
significant amount of money. I think that's the point. There's
this. There's more to it.
Sorry, Rob. I don't have your email. That's what's in the
email. He says, I just want to follow up on our donation today
with a note to both TV to say thanks for all you do. We don't
have a PhD in podcasting yet. But we're getting there in no
small part to the effort you make as well as the lessons and
information you to share with the rest of us every week. This
donation is made in a spirit of appreciation and part of the
effort you make as well as the lessons information you choose,
oh, wait, this, I read that twice. This donations, main
spirit of appreciation, and gratitude. So please don't share
appeal the need to say thanks, we're going to anyway, as
represents a demonstration of value we've already gotten on
the two of you, we've participated. We've particularly
grateful to your defense and advocacy of the RSS as a
cornerstone of podcasting
course. Okay, I'm going to interrupt for a second. So we
know exactly who this is. Because these two gentlemen can
be two or four gentlemen. And they have supported this show as
well. And we know how much they support. Good. That's and I
know, because that's why Todd is like this is significant. We
don't have to mention who it is, but I think you know who it is
right? I've got
down to at least one of three people.
Yeah, exactly. Well, yes, True. True.
But I'm pretty sure I know who it is. And the word value value
is used here will continue. We are also tied to the ideal in
many ways. But you have carried me you to have carried the flag
for many years, when the rest of us could not. And we just want
to acknowledge that away. We help us beneficial to you in the
cause of the new media show. Thanks for all you do. And I
won't say who sent the donations, but it was from two
individuals at a company. And we do appreciate their contribution
significantly. It's a total Rob, I said, I need your PayPal,
because I got to send you your portion of this. And and I never
even like 50 bucks when he just thrown it out a bill or
something. But now this was much bigger. So thank you. Yeah,
really? Thank you. Yeah. For the for the support.
I think this is the first time that such a thing has happened,
man.
Right. But you know, we've gotten some donations over the
years. Yes. 2550 bucks. But Wow, this, this one would pay a bill.
Okay, so we've established, I know exactly who that is. Yeah.
Okay.
So we've established that this is, this is very, this is
amazing. value for value was just given to them in an amount
so vast, that he's excited about splitting it up with Rob. And at
this point, at the top of the show, you could say, Hey, you
know, if you want to support the show, go to the homepage,
there's the PayPal link and send us some value. And off this one
donation alone, they can double or triple this in the next, you
know, over the next few weeks. And I'm like, holy crap, this is
so beautiful. This is really this is the exciting part of
value for value is when someone gives you a value that exceeds
your expectations, but it's what they value your work at is
exactly the beauty. But then the next second,
this happens. So he taught on on a little bit of this theme. We
were both on a call earlier today. Talking about our our
session that's coming up at podcast movement. So we had the
guests that we're going to have at at the live on stage event
that's going to be streamed to virtual ticket holders for
podcast movement. And we're talking a lot about advertising.
And I thought it was a very interesting subject and I just
wanted to raise it to you Todd Do you think this show should
submit to to accept advertising? Colin, your thought? I don't
know. It's just it's just something to throw out there.
Right. Cool. We're going to advertise for we're going to
advertise for other podcasts company sir. I think that I
don't think our employers would like that so much kind of kind
of Shavers. Maybe. Maybe glasses could be but I'm not giving up
my Oakley Sorry. I'm not.
I mean, if we're gonna be, you know, kind of sell it out and
everybody else what's what's Stop in us, right?
Yeah, just kidding. No, I
think it's an interesting question to explore for the
show. I think we've been doing it a long time. And maybe
there's a couple of sponsors that might be complimentary to
the show and the audience here. And who knows,
No, you're right on the edge. They're right on the edge of
when they get hold back into the abyss. Oh, so they're literally
they're splitting up the value for value money. And the next
thing they think, and this is nothing against Todd and Rob,
personally, of course, I appreciate both of these guys.
It's nothing against them personally, it's what happens,
oh, advertising, I won't have to do any shit. I want to ask for
any whatever it is the process that goes on your head, you're
right, they were right there on the edge. And then in the black
hole started the mat, the gravity of hell, down through
the earth naval, was just pulling them back in I was like,
No, no, no, no.
That was painful to hear.
Whereas they have a sure $500 for next week, if they just
continued on that first donation. For sure, I would have
given him 500.
That's, that's the thing that people don't understand about
value for value is when part of the mechanism of value for value
is other people set the they set the tone for what the value is,
yes. And so when when a donation comes in, it gives everybody
else a signal that, that there's a there is a value here, number
one, and then number two, it's at a certain level. And so then
they can place themselves on the spectrum, somewhere in that
level, according to what the other. So that's why you were
talking earlier about bouncing it off, saying, okay, here's a
here's a donation. If you If you value this as well, you know,
find out what is its value to you? Well, they're going to
place themselves on something, let's just say if this donation
was $1,000, they're going to place themselves somewhere
between, let's say, five bucks, and $1,000. And me, they could
be anywhere on that spectrum, depending on who they are. If
they're loaded, there, they're donated there, they may be above
that spectrum, and they'll Oh, well, you know, I love you know,
open podcast RSS, I'm going to, you know, donate 2500. But if
they, you know, if they're just a listener that this modest
means that may 20 bucks, but you miss your opportunity to get
your listeners into their head to start thinking of your
product as a Vout as valuable.
And as Tina, the keeper says, a semi retired chief
communications officer. The number one reason people don't
give to any causes, because they're not asked and not asked,
it's that simple.
Is that what is Is that what it says on her LinkedIn?
No, no, I tell her, she's semi retired, and she should be
enjoying it more. Excuse me. So now when it comes to value for
value with the streaming payments, you know, we had two
promises when we started off podcasting. 2.1 was independent
index, that so your content is not platform, the platform,
we're both from everywhere, and just a resource for app
developers. And the second promise was, we were going to
make what we didn't call immutable payment. But we said
we need to turn it into a platform of value to everybody
can participate in the value. And that's how we came up with
the value block and the splits, etc. So that app developers and
anyone else, you know, this show itself, Dred Scott is on the
he's on the split with 5%. He gets it for doing the chapters
to me out and and so that was that was part of the idea. And I
think kind of the initial strategy that we had is we'll
look, we need namespace for this. And there's a couple of
things out here that people would like in a namespace such
as transcripts and chapters, I think transcripts was one was
that buzzsprout who already had that working?
Yeah, they already had that.
And so it was not the first thing we put in
a transcript. Right? In transcript, right.
And the lock tag was implemented pretty quickly, by most I'm not
sure. But so so last night, not a single hosting company has,
excuse me, has implemented the value for value block, not a
single one. And that's okay. Everyone's all excited about all
the features. And I love them. I love the our apps. They're
differentiated because of the capabilities they have. But the
podcast hosts we're now almost a year later, Episode 48. And it's
quite dismal. What has been implemented and I'm not this
doesn't this is not for everybody. Obviously, we have
some real leaders in the space and we have a lot of people who
have time to integrate with With other services with to do
special things with Spotify subscriptions, or integrate with
Cubans fire chat side thing, I'm saying it expressly that way,
because the only fireside I know is Dan, the fire chat side
thing, but they have no time to implement even the value for
value block or anything. And that's fine, because I can't
make decisions for them, we can only control what we can
control. And this is where I'm kind of starting to bring it
around to Who are we really marketing to? And we were
talking about all the features, and I thought, you know, we
don't control the features, you can't you can you can tell
people go to buzzsprout, and you'll get this much go to RSS
calm, you get this muscle, etc, you know, fireside, etc. But we
don't really control it. And no one no one has all the features.
And most have a select few. And none of them have the value for
value blocks. So we've done a good job at creating some
excitement around New features, and definitely new podcast app
experiences really phenomenal. But we have to move forward with
what I think is the value for value proposition. If you ask
people, what is podcasting? 2.0 value for value typically comes
up. Whether it's, it's always in context of streaming. That's
just the people who asked me stuff on Twitter, and that's
what the conversation is. I have no official survey.
Yeah, there's a there's a group of people that think when they
think podcast index, or podcast, you know, named podcasting 2.0.
If they think of one of those things, there's a section of
people that think streaming Bitcoin payments of value for
value. And then there's the second set of people that think
each namespace features and apps. Well, they have there's
like an overlap there. There's some kind of Venn diagram there.
But yes,
you're right, there is that Venn diagram. And it's the hosting
companies, right hosting companies or features. App guys
got their feet wet. And gals, I wish we had some gals, app
people, app developers got their feet wet with name, and here are
some of the namespace tags. And really, most of them got on a
super roll value for value took a backseat, appropriately. So
even though Sphinx had implemented it first things
chat, and it was working for quite a while. And then everyone
started to kind of get on into value for value that was
organic, there was no pushing. There was no one's saying, hey,
cut that out with these things. Now. It just started to happen.
And people started to like it.
Again,
the hosting companies are the ones that talk about the
features, which of course, is what the app developers to
implement. But we're in this stalemate, and we really are
becoming, in my mind, even sometimes, just in our overall
discussions. A part of the decade long we're doing we're
talking a lot. We're not doing anything, because x, y and z and
so when I heard pod land, this week, my heart broke. My heart
broke when I heard this, even though there's goodness in it,
but my heart broke when I heard this piece with Sharon Taylor of
Omni studio, she was co hosting pod land with James Cridland.
And here's the segment.
Yeah, and I'm just just curious, partly because I want the boosts
from the value for value. What are you looking at in terms of
the podcasting 2.0 stuff, the new podcast namespace that Adam
Curry is? And Dave Winer. Dave Winer get
that broke. That broke my heart right there. I was gonna edit it
out. But no,
thanks for making me relive this. Yeah.
This is where we want that negative boost feature.
Yeah, when it's like my
money back out of your wallet. namespace that. By the way, I
love that he asked this question this, this is a fucking great
question.
How are you serious? And Dave Winer? Dave Winer. Dave Jones.
Although who knows Dave Winer as well are working on what was
your sort of feeling around that? Have you been doing any
work around that so far,
we'll be keeping an eye on it. We haven't done the work around
it, we've got a ticket to do the RSS transcript tag. And so we'll
probably push that out sooner than later. The challenge is
obviously getting a big enough platform to recognize it. We do
some custom stuff that we push out through our API's that
people use at the moment if they're building their own
experience, but I until until let's do some name checks until
an apple or a Spotify or Google or algo. Amazon, I'll name them
all, like until someone integrates it. I think we are
kind of watching and waiting. But yeah, the transcript one is
something people been asking us for. And so we'll put that into
the system this year was
great. And the transcript certainly is something that
really helps accessibility and everything else. I hope that if
if they if they do nothing else, I hope that the big podcast apps
also stick that tag in there as well.
I think it's inevitable that they're going to have to
especially I I mean, privacy is a huge hot topic in podcasting
at the moment as we try and push the envelope in advertising. And
so we're going to get to a point where we're going to do
contextual things. And we're going to need the context to do
that. And so we need the transcript. So we're getting
there. I think my heart
broke. It just broke. It's shattered in so many pieces. Oh,
I'm sorry. Yeah.
where, you know, I will name literally anything I can, I'll
even throw Google and Amazon into the mix. Anything that I
can think of, except for any other app, if they don't do it,
and well, but you know, we might do transcript to parse through
to advertise. Now,
there's so much there, right? There's so much in in in that
piece of content, I don't want to disrupt your flow, I'll let
you know.
Well, no. And we're gonna bring our guests in in a minute,
because I'm sure he won't, he wants to weigh in on this as
well. So nothing against James, of course. As you heard Joe
Rogan, say I even it's uncomfortable, I gotta say what
I feel nothing against Sharon. It's just heartbreaking that
here is someone who was really in charge of this stuff, they
haven't done the work, they have a ticket for it. Now, I'm
encouraged to hear that people are asking for it. But I don't
think people are asking, or asking for it to be indexed. And
for some privacy reason, which you mentioned, which was unclear
to me. So that they can do more advertising heavy on
advertising. Because and this is, this is where I was last
night. Like, we have to do something else. And the only
thing we can do is things we can control, which is the value for
value, which we tack on through podcast index, which works just
fine. We can't be doing that for all these other tags. And so now
I'm coming to kind of the confusion when people see
podcast index.org, and I'm a podcast, and I go down that
podcast path. And I see all these great features. I'm like,
great, I'm going to switch to this hosting company, who are
these podcasts guys? You know, as like hold this, we are
completely going to confuse them. They're thinking, Wait a
minute, so I can't, I can't upload my mp3 here. I have to
use these and who does what and, and then we just have a morass
of an again, I'm excluding the ones, I'm excluding everybody,
if you know what, if you feel bad about it, that I'm talking
about be talking about you. There's a lot of great work
being done. But we're still in that mode of well, you know, no
one big is doing it. I don't want to wait for these things
anymore. And I want us to push value for value as the main
thing that we do. And I want to show all the features of
podcasting 2.0 all of them. But we we need to be very focused on
what we can do. And what we can do is the value for value and
the back end and the reporting. And and we can make that free,
though, or at least No, no fee for doing it. There'll be fee
for for routing your money around, of course. Does that
make any sense where I, where my head kind of went with that?
Yeah, I've been on a little bit on the front lines of this being
on on the Twitter so much with the account and seeing a lot of
this, there's, I just want to point out a couple of things
here. You have an interaction with pocket casts, where
essentially, I was told the same thing that, you know, until,
until there's more adoption for it, then they're not going to do
you know, they're not, they're not going to look at it
seriously. And then now we hear you know, from hosts the same
thing, if there's not more adoption of that, we're not
going to take it seriously. Well, okay, so you have but you
have two sides there, you have the host saying that thing, and
then you have the app saying that thing. And, and I'm just
pointing out that I mean, each of these companies can do
whatever they want. But I'm just pointing out that this is how
this is a stalemate. This is a, this is a classic chicken and
egg problem. Each one is waiting for the other. And that's an is
as long as that doesn't change, nothing will happen. Everything
will stay the same. And the other. The other part of this is
if you can talk to anyone in the in the podcasting ecosystem,
anyone. And you will universally hear that the apple and Spotify
apps are poor quality listening experiences. And that's and they
wish that they were better. I mean, it's almost universal.
Those apps, the the quote unquote big ones are just not
that great. And that's not what we want. When we invite when
when you see listeners onboarding into the pod into
podcasting for the first time, what you want them to have is a
really nice listener app experience. And those two apps
are not very good. So my question The natural question
is, then why are we waiting on them to do anything? Well, if
they if they are having if they consist, if those big companies
consistently as a poor app experience, then it's clear that
they did. That is not where we want to focus the knife edge of
innovation in the podcasting world. We want to we want that
and we want the leading edge of the pod of podcasting innovation
on the app side, the side that's directly in contact with the
listener, that that edge needs to be somewhere else. And right
now, it's in small independent apps. It's in overcast podcast
addict. It's in the podcasting 2.0 apps, Curio caster pod
friend, cast Matic, it's an all of the pod verse, the fountain
is in all of these new apps, bloating and pod print is
exploding onto the scene, because now there's innovation
to be had. And if the big ones don't, don't step into the game,
within their market share is going to plummet cause pagi, the
one the one group, if you take hosting app, and creators,
hosting companies, app developers and creators, you
take those three groups, the only ones that we're not hearing
say that they that they don't care about features, or
creators, they they like having options, all these new features,
or how hosting companies sell to creators, you can say, look at
these features we give you and they know what their reaction
is. Oh, cool.
So enter a new feature. Enter Matt madeiros. Who has one of my
favorite titles, Director of podcast success. Nice. At
costos.
Yes, and,
and this is I was and so my heart reassembled, I dropped off
the key I walked out of Heartbreak Hotel this morning,
when he posted when he posted this video. Now they're a
hosting company there. I don't think they're very large. I
don't know much about him. I think I've heard the name
somewhere. And I'm just it's a 15 minute video, it's in the
show notes, I'm just going to play a little bit of it. And I
did, I did chop it up a bit just to make it move a little faster.
This is some education that they do for their customers.
In today's video, we're going to try to tackle something that is
cutting edge, bleeding edge in some conversation circles. And
that is getting paid in cryptocurrency for your podcast
and
the concept that we're looking at today from a really high
level.
If this is brand new to you, it's still brand new to me,
you're in the right place. So we all know and think generally
about what Bitcoins are. And as podcasters we're always looking
for Well, not always, but those of us who are looking to
monetize a podcast are looking for ways to earn money with our
podcast, and sometimes the whole advertising route sponsorship
route. You know, the traditional mechanisms for monetization of
media and content isn't something that we want to go
after. We don't want to knock on somebody's door and ask them for
money to get an advertising spot on our podcast. So what options
do we have? Well, we have membership podcast or premium
content that people can buy and opt into. And we do that here at
Castillo's and there's other podcast hosts that do that as
well. The folks over at the podcast 2.0 movement will look
at today as podcasts index.org have means to connect podcasts
up to this cutting edge technology cryptocurrency
payments through a unit of bitcoins known as satoshis. The
Satoshi is currently the smallest unit of Bitcoin
currency recorded on the blockchain. It's 100,000,000th
of a single Bitcoin. So we're talking very, very, very, very
small units of a Bitcoin. So it takes many, many, many satoshis
to equal large amounts of payments. Now, bear with me, why
is this technology so interesting? The podcast index
is making it easier every day for podcasters to connect to
this kind of form of payment. Now, there's a few things at
play that we kind of all have to appreciate or understand first,
number one, this is cutting edge bleeding edge technology. So
it's not very easy to set up. That's one side of it. The other
side of it is podcast apps where the transaction happens. Not all
of them are doing this yet, and largely questionable if they all
will. So you have to pick your favorite podcasting apps, which
you can look at, right on podcasts, index.org, slash apps.
There's a whole list of Important apps for podcast 2.0,
and the value for value payments.
So this is beautiful.
And he and he goes through the whole process setting up a node
which he did with swings, funding the wallet doing all of
that stuff. And I love this because he is not just
evangelizing towards their customers. He's also
evangelizing internally. And they don't have namespace
features up yet. But you know, as he says in the video, not in
the clip, but in the video like that they're going to do in this
they want they want to do, the impression is they want to do a
lot of it. I don't know what power the director of success
has of podcast success, but I was very, very pleased with
that. And then I and then so now I'm now My head is spinning. And
now I'm thinking about things and I want to bring in our guest
because I want to take this a little bit further with him. I
had no idea he's a Texan until I was prepping for today's show.
In fact, he's not he's just a little bit down the road. Ladies
and gentlemen, from San Antonio, Texas. It is the developer who
just burst onto the scene with Curio caster, ladies and
gentlemen, Mr. Steven bell. Adam, Dave, how you guys doing?
I was looking great. I was wondering if we'd fallen asleep.
I'm sorry to keep you waiting so long, man. No, no, it's all
right. Dude.
I love Curio caster. That's that is a curio caster has become the
app and that just does everything immediately. Like I
mean, if we if we just have some wild, crazy, idiotic idea, like
within 10 minutes.
This is exactly this is exactly right. It's like Hey, Steve,
man, how about this, boom, boom, boom, you mean like this? And
then it's like, oh, I found a bug. It's okay, man. I can only
I can only do development work on my lunch break. So Who the
hell are you, Steven Bell? I'm doing very well is having me on?
And who are you? What do you what do you do in real life? Are
you a developer by trade?
No, I am an electrician by trade. And I have been moved
into the office to estimate the electrical jobs. And I just
picked up development about 10 years ago, because I wanted a
sprinkler system for my garden. And rather than spend 100 bucks
I spent 10 years developing one and doesn't work. It sort of
works.
It runs off a Raspberry Pi. No doubt does. And whenever the
power goes out, I have to reload all my stuff.
You are a developer?
pro Dog Pro developer. I love that man.
I love this. Well, how did you get I mean, like, Did you just
get a wild hair and say I want to just learn how to code. I
mean, like what what was the What was that? You said a
sprinkler system? And what was the project like? Um,
I've always been a cheapskate. So I like to make things myself
if I can, even though it's going to take me way more time. And
I'd be better off just spending the money on it. So I just
started looking into what I could do and saw that they had a
thing called the Arduino.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that interface with a real world?
Yeah. Are you a ham radio operator, too? I am not. Oh,
man. You should be you got all the qualifications. You know,
voltage. You know, Raspberry Pi with Arduino. You're good to go?
Yeah. And you're okay with stuff not working ever? Yeah,
very much. So how did you find How'd you find us?
I had a friend who hit me in the mouth, probably about boys,
probably back in November. And then I heard you talking about
podcast index. And I was at work. I listened to podcast for
about eight hours a day. So I was trying to develop my own
thing, because I liked Apple's interface, but they don't let
you play at the the increased speed. And then I needed
something that let me view the incoming episodes. So I decided
to build one myself.
Now, I want to say that's how most projects like open source
projects, especially start is you have an existing piece of
software, whether it's open source or not. That does like
almost what you want. But there's like one feature that
just keeps driving you nuts. So you're like, Okay, I'm going to
remake this because I think I can, I'm going to remake it. And
then we're going to add this feature. And so you get to that
point, and then in the during in the process, you end up thinking
of 25 other things that it could do that would make it great. And
then you boom, you get a project.
Oh, yeah. And then they start adding stuff like chapters and
transcripts. And it's like, well, I got to add that to.
Exactly. Yeah, your speed is quite astonishing.
Yes, you've taken the mantle for Martin Martin has become a
responsible developer now and he handed over the reckless thing.
recklessness. Martin's got shit working now he's like, Yeah, I
don't want to mess with too much. And yeah, I'm gonna get
married going to go to Greece. I'm just messing with you,
Martin. Man, we love you. We miss you. And you know he's
listening
to you. Steven, I want to ask you, you program if I'm correct
me if I'm wrong. You're coding in spelt. Yeah. Okay, tip, what
the hell is failed? I mean, what is that?
So spelt is a JavaScript compiler that takes all of your
code and actually makes its own JavaScript. So it runs a lot
lighter than something like react and you're not running on
a virtual DOM, it actually interacts with the DOM. And I
like it because I learned JavaScript by doing vanilla
JavaScript. And this is as close to vanilla JavaScript as any
framework I've ever messed with.
You had me at Dom
Yeah. Yeah. So you don't have the you don't have the, the flip
flop overhead from from manipulating the virtual DOM and
then flipping it into production? Like, yeah, okay.
That it's so I mean, how, how did you is there like, add note,
I know nothing about svelte. I never hear about it. Is it one
of these things like CoffeeScript, that's going to be
like a flash in the pan, or is it gets a good following.
It's got a pretty good following. And there's, they
call, I think it's syntax FM. They're a pretty big JavaScript
podcast. And he did his whole website in spelt. And it was
actually developed by Rich Harris. And he does the graphics
for Oh, I want to say the New York Times. And he developed it
for his work there.
Oh, interesting. So it's got disaffected. Yeah. Go ahead.
Oh, no, I was just going to interrupt with with a quick
message from France. And
now, as the French say, it is time for low boost. Boost.
svelte, that sounds that sounds French?
Well, yeah, I guess it is.
I don't know. So is to caster is that an open source thing? Or is
he still got closed source?
It's still closed sourced. And I don't I don't want to add or I'm
sorry, Alex to see my code.
Shit, man, no one wants Alex to look at the code. Find it. So I
have a I have a question because you approach things. I love
working with developers. By the way, I love working with every
single one of them. It's so much fun. And it's so enriching, you
know, from Mitch with pod verse to of course, very intense with
Martin as he was getting started with pod friend, but hypercare
will you know, David will come back. We'll we'll, we'll pick it
up and do some more work there. I've really enjoyed Curio
caster. And so I have a request for you to think about. In light
of the first half hour of the show. I had a thought. And I've
mentioned this before, and Dave knows that I'm a big fan of the
concept of Microsoft Word. Why do I like Microsoft. And by the
way, you could have me Libra office is fine. The idea is
you're creating a a media element, in this case, a
document that the recipient is going to read in the same app.
And I've always thought, my goodness, it would be so
revolutionary. If you manage your podcast feed in an app that
you use. And with the web apps, it's very possible because of
the desktop nature of it. The Curio caster desktop experience
is it's like I'm piloting a 747 Yeah, I've got it all and but
it's a it's not a Boeing. I'm not a what is the Airbus it's a
Boeing because you know, sheet metal and rivets, you know, it's
like ship strapped on, it's gonna fly forever. So it might
pop off. We'll, we'll we'll, we'll get some gaffer tape and
seeing as cast dose, but there are other they have an API that
blueberry works with the pod press plug in. Is it a thought
to and I think the RSS feed part is is where you host that is
doable, and I currently host my, my RSS feed or all the, you
know, whatever it is, that's on linode. And in CloudFlare. I
push five terabytes a month, and it cost me What is it 60 bucks.
It's an incredible amount of data. Is it possible to you
know, to create The RSS feed either Well, that would be to be
beautiful was the API. But I know the hosting companies won't
output what we need. But to add minimum use their storage
capability and you would still have to pay for that. But to
have everything else managed through Curio caster as an
example, I just like you to think about that. Because we
need to focus on value for value, which you've done so
incredibly well. You've pioneered the booster grams. But
we we've got that we're going to move on that all the other
stuff. This seems like there's a possibility. Maybe I'm off my
rocker.
No, no, I, you've mentioned that before. And with sir Spencer
having so many issues with with Casta pod, and he was mentioning
a bunch of that stuff on the podcast index. Again, I bet I
can do something like that. So what I'm trying to do is get a
curio caster video podcast going, that shows how to use
Curio caster, because right now, I think the getting people to do
the value for value, the onboarding is difficult. And I
think they just need something that they can see. So as I'm
doing that, I'm trying to build some RSS feed generators that I
can work with. And yeah, I've got some ideas on how you can go
to the chapters tab and then just hit add a new chapter. And
all of that gets fed into whatever database there is,
you know, we could even I bet we could convince some of the
bigger hosting companies, hey, you know, what, if we show up,
can we just put the RSS feed on the server and the mp3 file and
bypass your your system?
Well, a bit. I know, blueberry has an API and a note, and
because they're already, they already essentially do that with
WordPress,
well, where but where does the RSS live that lives on
WordPress. com,
I think you can do it either way, I think you can, you can
make it a blueberry, you can, you could make blueberry hosts,
and your media. Beautiful, beautiful. And so I think you
can do it multiple ways. So I know at least they have that
capability of accepting media files through their API, I'm
pretty sure
because that would solve so much, they can do whatever they
want to do. They can continue building their process and their
features based upon their customer feedback. And as
budgets allow, I understand this, again, this is not a slam,
I'm just identifying the facts. And meanwhile, we have a nice
little garrison of, of app developers who can focus on this
and bypass the entire problem, and everyone still gets what
they need. The only in this case, I would say Curio caster
deserve some more satoshis on the on the on the on the block
level. But still, I mean, a lot to be fleshed out. But it just
seems like it's workable.
Yeah, it'd be really interesting. Steven, if if there
was like, inside the app? If there is, you know, you can, the
app looks exactly like it does. But then there's this one extra
function there that just says Create podcast.
Yeah, it totally seems doable. You log in and you've got proof
that you're the owner of that podcast, and you can do whatever
you want with the RSS feed.
Yeah. And then you put and then you just publish it back through
through a hosting API. And you can update it, as you you know,
as you feel need to, and then you still have the safety of
being behind the, the hosting the hosting companies border,
you know, for billing and all that kind of jazz. It'll be
pretty cool, man.
I mean, imagine if podcasters show up. You say, oh, here's an
app that your that your listeners can use, and you can
use it to. Yeah, and if you're fortunate, it'll work with your
existing host. If not, you know, cast a cast offs.
Well, you know, that that was the whole thing with anchor from
the beginning, they started off they weren't a podcasting
company to begin with. They started off as a social audio
company was just like sharing little bits of audio. And then
they pivoted to being a podcasting company, I think just
because of you know, financial or financial reasons. But then
so that was that's always been their thing is pick it up, hit
the buttons, you're a podcaster Yeah, like like single click
thing. It would be really cool to have that in a podcast in 2.0
app or you know, be literally hit the button. If you're on the
phone. If you're using Curio caster on the phone, which I do
most of the time. Then you just hit the you know, you record
right into speaker or something crazy like that. I mean, like he
could literally be that, that level of ease and you know, you
have some To interstitial where it's like, Okay, what host Are
you going to use and you know, blueberry and then you just put
your plug away. I mean, it's like a there's like a boom,
boom, boom. All sudden, you're a podcaster.
Yeah, this is what I'd like professors to use for their
lectures or anything like that. I mean, just that immediacy in
the same app mind blowing, and you know what people will get
it? Oh, okay. That makes sense. So Steven, have you have you
developed it yet? Is it done?
Ah, how about next week? You know how this works, man?
Seriously? Seriously, bro? I'm
gonna guess I've got something to throw at you, Steve. So are
you have you looked at all at the live tag? Or have you has
any of that swirling around in your head?
I've looked at some of it with the GitHub and I can already do
live through HLS. Because that's how the peer to peer is working.
So from what I understand HLS was set up for live streaming.
So I was reading through the spec last night as as,
as one does before bedtime?
Well, it's a great way to fall asleep.
That's what I did do. Let me read the Bitcoin white paper
again.
Okay, so I'm reading through it. And it looks like the where we
landed on it last time that it was talked about the reason I'm
asking about this, I'm considering I'm trying to piece
everything together for phase four right now. And trying to
figure out exactly what tags we want to hit. And I'm catching up
with it. And it's shows like, essentially, what you would have
is a live tag. And then inside the live tag, you would have an
f4 episode item, and everything that goes in it. And so
basically, what that gives you is it gives you a live item
that's hidden, because it's enclosed in this tag that note
that none of the aggregators were looking for understand
that, they would just ignore it. So you did inside that you can
put this live, you put a full episode item. And then inside of
that the enclosure is going to reference an HLS stream or
whatever. And then the only additional tags within it are a
start time and an end time to let the player know that this is
the approximate time that the live stream here is going to
start and then we come through with a pod pain that signals
that okay, the live stream has started. Now, I think what
you're doing is correct me if I'm wrong, I think you are
parsing the XML directly yourself. Right? Yeah. Okay, so
you, you could pick all that stuff up?
Yeah, as long as that RSS has been updated with the live
status. Yeah, they should pick it up. No problem.
So what do you think? Is there any sort of hearing and
visualizing that? Do you see any drawbacks or any gotchas in
there that that everybody may be missing? I'm really interested
in this because I want to know, I'm, I'm, uh, I would like to go
forward with the live stuff. And so I just feel like there's not
enough input on it. And yet, so I'm interested to see what your
What do you think about it? Well, I
have to, man I have to read through the spec. Because Dave,
You're distracting you distracting. You're distracting
him from my great ideas. You're putting him on a different path.
Now I've been I was messing with the the no agenda live stream,
trying to see if I could play it really faster, because I thought
it would be really cool to get a live boost and streaming while
you guys are doing the episode. That's what we're talking
about. Man. Hell yeah,
you've got 2000 people in the troll room. There's competition
on who could be boosting the most and you could even have
like a top booster. And Ooh, like, they get their name on the
leaderboard. Oh, check it out. And when someone boosts it
automatically post the boost to the IRC channel. Yeah, something
like that. Ah.
You don't understand the monster you've unleashed? Here. See?
Okay, so if the The only thing I could think of this a problem
is, is if you've put the live item in the feed, then then you
have to wait for people to aggregate it so that they know
about it. So we're just thinking about this traditional
aggregator client model where you just have weird the server's
doing all the aggregation. And that can be mitigated somewhat
with pod paying and, and with whips up to a degree. But if you
so then you get, then you get the item. So that's, that's
hitch one I think can be overcome, but then hit the only
other hitch I can think of is that then then what happens
after the stream. So what you would think you would want to do
is you would want to air the stream. And after the stream is
ended, you want to convert that into into a normal item, a
normal episode. And so I would think, does the live item then?
Just do you just strip the live off there and boom, you get your
item? I don't know.
I'm thinking like, what if you had as the top item always live?
Because like the no agenda stream, you can always go to
that URL, and it may just be playing music. But there's
something going on. And now you know that this podcast has a
live?
Yes, this is handy, because it's a 24 hour live stream. You can
always pick it up.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. And then, as I see what you're
saying, and then is that that things just always kind of stuck
at the top. And then the only thing that would change would be
this the start start time and end time. So like, if it's
something like, let's just say, okay, accidental tech, that
podcast has a weekly stream, live stream, but it's not a 24
hour stream. So at the end, when their stream goes offline, they
would be they would just change the start time to the next week.
And I wonder if they had something that when you go to
that live stream, if it's not streaming, it can just return
something to let you know that it there's no feed going on
right now.
Listen, hold music boom, dude. Yeah.
Or they could just keep looping the the last week's episode over
and over.
No, yeah. Okay. Now Oh, well, I like this. Cuz, see, I've been
thinking about, I've been thinking of it in terms of
swapping in and out live items. But this is and you could still
do that. But I do like this idea to which you have sticky live
item that's always there. That's, that's really good. I
think. I mean, I really want to try to push this because it
sounds fairly straightforward to me.
And I think the thing that's been super, like, what's making
podcasting 2.0 so popular is the community. Yep. And people want
to feel like they're part of a community. And that's why the
troll rooms so popular, you get to know people, and I think the
live stream will help enable that, because I hate waiting
till three o'clock to hear the newest episode. I want to hear
you guys live.
Yeah. So do you. Have you done anything in that vein? Have you
done anything on activity pub on comments?
Are you just kidding, I was gonna say like, cross cross
comments is, is another one of those. Yeah, I'm
kind of waiting because I can't get my head wrapped around. He's
on
vacation. The whole the whole world standstill.
I know. As soon as he puts it on his GitHub, I'm gonna go steal
it.
Yeah. Good, man. That's a good man. Yeah. Because I'm thinking,
you know, let's just take this this show, for example. I'm
thinking that the live items sticky at the top, as soon as
the start time happens, pod pain goes out with and what we're
thinking is that the pod pain will just be a notification with
the URL of the URL with an exclamation point or something
like that in front of it just didn't know that this is a this
is like an alert stream alert. So then that goes out. Curio
caster taps in at that time, when it gets the pod paying taps
into star streaming the feed and then in somewhere inside that
live item could also be a reference back to the message to
the podcast index dot social as the activity pub partner or
activity pub node. And then as boosts are happening or
something like that, they're they're popping into as as items
into the into the mastodon
Yeah, that'd be cool. Kind of like house the Toshio streams
telegram was showing when people boost it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yes, exactly what I'm thinking of some Yes,
I'm totally like that. Yeah, cuz you could, you could link it
back to a mastodon or a telegram or IRC or whatever you want it.
On the back end, and that they can I think that fits into
Benjamin Belson Bell Mesa, social tag.
Speaking of Benjamin Bellamy if I might just take a quick moment
and remind everybody that he will be presenting a virtual
session at podcast movement, podcast index, how to unleash
your value, thanks to the podcast namespace I don't have I
guess it's on demand. So you can once it's open or it could maybe
you can even watch it now, if you have tickets. He's really
flying the flying the flag and it's highly appreciated.
Yeah, I've got it pulled up. I plan on watching it over the
weekend is out already. I think you can go ahead and
think you can. Yeah. Yeah, I was too busy picking up the pieces
of my shattered heart.
Okay, so, Stephen, tell me that you have made at least a little
bit of money.
I was just gonna ask the same thing day is gonna say Hey, man,
how's the SATs stacking going?
I've probably made $20 that I end up giving back to you guys
with testing.
This is pretty much how it works. We're our own circular
economy don't don't up model.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I feel you. So I mean, are you at least getting
a steady supply then?
Yeah, this guy named Adam Curry. I get a few from him every
single morning, right around six o'clock.
Yeah, that's when I'm listening to pod news. Yeah, you got a lot
yesterday, because we got named checked. Try quad boosted
quad boost quad boost. And you're the only you're the only
app besides pod friend that I know of that supports video
right now.
Yeah, and I surprised more don't because it sounds like it's
difficult. But you just use a video tag instead of an audio
tag. If you're using an html5
it's, it's a supply issue, you know, and I spoke to Roy at
breeze and you were working on the web ln integration, and
they? I think I can say this. I think it's okay to mention, I
don't see why not. They're seeing an issue that on iOS, not
Android, but iOS. The processor starts overheating. When it's
processing the graph, the network graph. Now I'm
paraphrasing what he said. I'm like, holy crap, what the heck
is going on?
No, I know exactly what he's talking about. Because I've
noticed that and it'll actually crash the app. Oh, yeah. It's
like, you'll, you'll be sitting there and it'll be processing.
And the thing will be fire hot in your hand. Oh, my goodness.
Okay. That's a problem.
Yeah, interesting. Yeah. I don't know what the deal is. But it's,
it's, it's intense. So.
So the supply issue. Once with me, I think that's kind of what
we're waiting for, is to have a little cleaner experience. But
quite honestly, I think we should forge ahead. I haven't
spoken to mark Hall, you know, so kind to put up his his
documentary for us to mess around with. You know, we've got
Alex, he's Alice gates. He's got, you know, some. I mean, he
can handle some stuff. We just we need to have kind of the
hosting part. A little more seamless. And I
think you can host on the no agenda to I don't know if if
Alex charges or I think all that's free to host on it.
Right. Well, he's
taking something in the value blog. Thank goodness.
Yeah, yeah, it's not enough, though. It's just really
well, this stuff to be worked on. But I mean, I agree. It's
just there's so much to do. So many of you know that we got
music coming up, people starting to use it. And, you know,
developers are gonna have to focus on what they want to do.
There's a lot that and I just have my secret wish of getting
everything working. Right. bypassing hosting companies and
and helping them out. Yeah, giving him giving him a little
help.
Well, what do you think? Is your what's the thing that you that
you're looking to implement? The most? Like, what? What would
your desire be for a phase four type feature? Or are you not?
Are you in a mode where you're not looking for new features?
Now you're just like, sort of in a I want to? I want to perfect
what we already have situation?
Live is probably, I think, the most beneficial?
Me too. Yeah. Yeah, I would, I would think so too, in that.
Here's what I'm looking at for phase four. And you can give me
give me any feedback you have. I'm thinking of the medium tag,
which I think is is really Good, the dynamic content tag. I think
that's clear, it's clear that that's needed. And that's a
simple tag. It's just basically like dynamic dynamic content.
Yes or No, it's a true false tag. Block, I think we're gonna,
I think we're gonna need that in in live.
And then we're going to do something with comments within
the namespace.
Yeah, but it's such a, it's such a big one, and is so fraught.
There, I think I'm not sure that we, I just don't think we can do
it in phase four.
Okay, that may be used to be something where some of us play
around to develop what we even need in the namespace.
Yeah, I think I think what is going to be like you just said,
I think it's gonna be a lot of playing around and developing in
then people coming in and say, in identifying ways they can be
abused, and then tightening that up. I think there's going to
have to be a lot of sort of, what do you call it? Like a back
and forth that goes through? Before we say, Okay, yeah, this,
this is something that we can that we can do. But I mean, I
think I mean, it, we all know, we, I mean, we all know that it
can happen. It's just that you want to make sure that you do it
in a way that's not just a horrible, you know, cluster of
potential abuse.
Yeah, there's a lot of issues. And until it's even built, we
don't even know what half of them are.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You have to see it in action. And then then
you can say, Oh, yeah, here, because you can identify some of
them ahead of time and say, Okay, well, you know, I could do
this. And I could do that. And I can do this, then when you see
it in action. It's like, oh, and I could also do this. And you
know, that could be that could be a good thing or a bad thing.
No, I think you're I think it's going to take a couple of cycles
before we get our head on straight about this comments
thing.
Yeah, and I'm glad guys are just going ahead and doing something
instead of trying to keep it until we iron everything out.
And Steven,
have you thought at all about the onboarding process for Curio
caster? I mean, we've we've discussed a number of things.
And actually, after the last episode, Tim from Elon pay on
the on the on the back channel, he's like, oh, man, faucets
suck. I'm getting rid of them. But he's like, well, we still
maybe have one open or do something. We've got to figure
it out. Have you thought about the onboarding process? How you
get people into loading up the wallet on Curio caster, which of
course is is lm PE but have you? What's your thoughts about that?
Um, I think right now, they just they don't know what they're
doing. And that video you guys played the clip that 15 casteau
video that was perfect. We need more of that where it's just a
tutorial so that the the next level of people who aren't super
technical but still like the technology can start doing it.
What do you recommend
we need? What do you recommend people? How to Get satoshis into
their wallet? What do you tell your users?
I tell them to use strike strike just makes everything so easy.
Yeah, us only unfortunately a US No. And that does suck. It does
suck. My heartbreaking overstrike. Yeah, God.
But that that's the simplest onboarding
time we might get lucky with, with cash app slash. Maybe even
Twitter,
Twitter. I'm hoping jack Dorsey comes and saves us all. Well,
there's a
there's a there's a French guy. Actually, I should I shouldn't
have said that. But it's out of the bag. Now. There's a French
guy who's in like, some secret group at Facebook. And he's, and
he's a member of the tribe. At some Twitter, or some Twitter
secret group where they develop stuff like a skunk works, I
think,
like an r&d thing. Yeah.
Yeah. And I've met him like Dude, here's a thought for a
project.
And you know, that everybody gets freaked out by the and I've
seen this three times now. you recommend strike and and
everybody gets they get freaked out? They're like, What is this
thing? Want me to give? Give them personal information? You
had me out the first time. Yeah, I think people are not. People
are not understanding what it's, it's just like Venmo or cash
app, or PayPal. Like, it is a what your what you have with all
of those. You have a bank account. You have a small it's a
small mobile bank account is what it is. And if you attach
your normal bank account, what you're doing at that point is
you're doing banking, so you have to apply, comply with the
KYC AML rule which KYC is know your customer you know,
pretty much everything Buying Bitcoin in most places, yeah,
there's some kind of KYC AML actually know your customer anti
money laundering.
And here I think the issue is, is the people that are
interested in Bitcoin right now are they're not your average
Joe, they're going to be more of your liberty minded people who
don't want the government following them. And they've got
this idea that Bitcoin is a private thing. So when they are
asked for their ID, it's like, well, that's not what I want.
And that's legacy. And that's going to a lot of that is going
to morph and change over time. I'm not too worried about that
even we were talking this morning, Dave, Eric and I, about
the you know, the so called 20 a billion tax that they want to
grab from crypto. I'm like, you know, what, put to put Bitcoin
into the tax system, just let us know what it is now. And this
still, the way we the way value for value works is, you know,
you have no idea. No one knows who's sending what to whom now,
do you if you have to report income or time which you should
Anyway, I'll tell you, what freaks me out is PayPal
partnering with the anti defamation league? That's what
freaks me out. And it's and you know, the anti defamation
League, and I've, I've met with the with different leaders from
that in different countries. They are going way beyond their,
or their understood charter. And they are going to, in essence,
you know, I'll read it to you, the initiative with Pay Pal will
be led through ADL center on extremism and a leading
authority on extremism, terrorism and hate Pay Pal. And
ADL will focus on further uncovering and disrupting the
financial pipelines that support extremist and hate movements. In
addition to extremist and anti government organizations, anti
government organizations, the initiative will focus on actors
and network spreading and profiting from all forms of hate
and bigotry against any community. And then at some
point, they literally say they will be looking just at people
who are anti government.
So what is anti government? I mean, are we talking about? Are
we talking about Ron Paul? Because he's anti government? I
mean, how far does that statement go?
Well, it doesn't matter, the statement is there. So it's, I
don't even need to think about it. I know that we need to have
uninterruptible money because it's coming. And it goes, right,
it goes right back to the beginning of the show, oh, I
feel discriminated against by this podcast, you should no
longer process their payments. It's all about reporting. So,
you know, that just a this is not even YouTube didn't want
this in the beginning until something came in. But the
advertiser,
yeah. But that gets back to the beat to, you know, what we're
talking about earlier. And, and what I have brought up multiple
times in the past, is that people, people have to
understand that this society changes over time. And you're
gonna have, you may feel like your own personal politics at
this moment in history, or on the right side, quote, unquote,
of whatever is going on, while I'm not going to be canceled,
because, you know, I'm, because everybody agree with the con
with the mainstream, I agree with, with the people who are on
the favorable side of today, whatever the current is today,
you know, it wasn't like that 20 years ago, if you go back 20
years ago is exactly the opposite. And if you go, if you
go forward in time, 20 years from now, it could be the
opposite again, and you don't want to put tools, you don't
want to put the tools in the hands of people. Unless you
think it through and say okay, if I ended up on the other side
of this thing. How it could, it could destroy me. Yeah. So you
know, because everybody thinks that their position is
righteous, whether you agree with it, or not, everybody
thinks that they're on the right side of things. And so what it
comes down to is, do you want to put, do you want to put these
powerful tools in the hands of people that can abuse them?
Yeah. And the answer is always No. I mean, it has to be no,
that old adage of was it's like, you know, I may not like what
you say, but I'm going to defend to the death the right for you
to say it. That has a has a real Golden Rule application when it
comes to this kind of stuff. You really the reason that that
cliche and that that new thing exists, that all saw exists is
because it's true. You do have to make yourself slightly
uncomfortable with defending people you may not you may not
agree with them because ultimately it will benefit
everybody to have a To have some to have a system in which
tyrannical people in charge do not have tools to destroy you.
And I mean it's not really I get flustered with the whole free
speech stuff like that I mean as it's because it's like people
can't see beyond five minutes from now and look down the road
and say this okay things could change and I'll bring this up to
me if you have not been following Matt tie he bs I think
it's called like voice of the no yeah.
Oh yeah tight tie Eb I've been following him since he
deconstructed Wall Street which he's the only person the writer
for Rolling Stone.
Well, here's what he's doing. He does a series where he has an
article every so often is like, voices of the canceled or
something like that. And he says any he just does an expose a on
somebody who got d platformed. And I'm kidding, I'm telling
you, they are not right wingers know, many of them are left with
left wingers. Lots of them are anti anti. And people who are
pro Palestine have been d platformed. And Tifa people have
been doing it everybody. And and you if you think that you're
just kind of sort of in the happy squishy middle and
everything's gonna be okay.
You need to think again. Shall we thank a few people. Yes for
supporting the podcasting 2.0 project, as well as this
podcast, of course, it's all part of podcasts. index.org.
Now, the booster grams. Thank you very much, Steven. Yeah. And
more, of course, are working quite well. And you have those
on your list? I'm sure you do.
Yeah. Yeah. Again.
Thank you. Thank you, Dave very much. I love the new format. Oh,
cool. I got a timestamp. I've got I've got the episode. And
the podcast. Of course, I've got the amount of God from and then
I have a nice little debugging, debugging some debugging stuff.
Love that. Yeah, let's so this is a value. As we've discussed
the beginning, this is value for value, whatever value you get
from the project from this podcast. Go ahead and turn that
into a number and send it to us. You can do that by Well,
obviously a famous boost or here's your cue to boost you
know you want to that's the easy one with a podcast app from new
podcast. apps.com. Or you can go to podcast index.org. Scroll
down to the bottom Big Red Pay Pal Donate button actually hit
that and we gladly accept your cookbooks. And we want to thank
people who supported the project this week.
Oscar marry came in with $50. Now Oscar
Oscar, I was gonna we have to bring up Oscar.
Yes. thousand.fm new app on the block
brand new app. And as far as I know, the first value for value
enabled app in the official iOS App Store.
That's right. Yeah, as far as I know that. I mean, Sphinx is in
there. Yeah. But this would be the first single like podcast
app.
I mean, it's it's a twofer. It's a twofer. Because, you know, a
podcast apps themselves. We've seen from Martin's experience.
They're very like, Oh, what's this? what you're doing? Are you
conducting daily content? Do you have licenses? Show me your
papers. We could do one of those Hitler videos about Martin and
the frustrated, frustrated.
But also, you know, transferring transferring value outside of
the the apple ecosystem. So presuming that everything's all
a Okay, which it looks like it is and you've been using this
app? I think, Dave, I think it's built in flutter. So I'm hoping
that there will be an APK available for my graffito West
soon.
But he said he was gonna send out press releases. Think in
about a week and he said he wanted to wait until they get
it.
Okay, okay. Oh, I got you. So not on no agenda either. Because
always always plug an app or something on no agenda?
No, I think it was okay. For nogen I think he just said he's
waiting for the full press release. apk Okay.
We'll do that. fountain.fm It's, it's very pretty. It's very,
very, pretty. Pretty. Yeah, very pretty.
Thank you, Oscar. Let's see who we got named Jennifer Madison.
Yep. See, she says go podcasting. A few more. A few
more bucks since I allegedly don't know anything about
Bitcoin. that's a that's a slam on me. To be fair, I only know
the very tiny tip of the iceberg. That is crypto. The new
boyfriend quote unquote, is an ideas guy. So stay tuned, Damon.
I'm very excited. I think Tina will be probably working with
Dane Jennifer on some of the videos for the new website.
Okay, I can't wait to see those two heads come together
$33.33 is what she came out now we got some booster grams.
Yay. booster grams
from Karen. I'm assuming that's Karen down from mere mortals
podcast. Oh yeah. He gave us 1383 sets. He says these sets
are just these sets are just for you, Adam. Huh? Oh,
they were not cool. But they went into our collective wallet
Dave.
Oh, good. All right. We have a sheet we have a joint bank we
do.
We have a partner's bank account
partners. I can't believe you registered diaper node calm
forward to the end day.
Wait. Did I do that?
diaper? node.com Seriously? Oh, that's hilarious. Yes, it does.
It was I learned that by doing the drugs. Okay.
What's the diaper node? But I think I'm not in on this inside
joke. I
think it's a it's a lightning node that that has very, very
few SATs on it.
Oh, like the training wheels? Right?
Yeah, like the mousy? No does a diaper? No, I can't remember why
we did this or why I did this. I have this problem. I collect
domain names. It's paid off in the past though. It's been it's
been good to me.
Per node.com Okay. Thank you, Karen. Who we got here and we
got
I've preserved podcasting.com What the hell does that go to?
Oh, I remember when you registered though.
Also the podcast index. Yeah.
The anonymous gave us 1100 SATs and I said it says just testing
is the message. Good for me. Good for me to see 1000 SATs
from Nomad Joe. Nomad Joe This came in through pod friend. He
says does this thing work? Thanks for your service.
I love that. I love how it's like this one came in through
pod friend Yes, it was on the Morse code machine the teletype
brought it in. Yeah,
Dame Jennifer gave us 1000 SATs. This This came in through Curio
caster.
Yes ladies and gentlemen. We're reading it right off the
transfer from Curio caster
in the morning testing messages with boosts so cool. It's nice,
nice nice. Boost. By the way emojis do work in these
messages.
Yes. Yeah, I saw that too.
Cool. Another one from named Jennifer again through Curio
caster track. This boost is a marker. I guess that's a that's
a call back to her suggestion from last week.
Right.
1000 SATs?
What was the time was it? What was the timestamp?
I was about to give you this? You read my mind brother? One
hour and 45 minutes and 52 seconds
4550 to write it down? Well, I mean, what of course what I'm
expecting? Is that right from that booster Graham email. I
totally expect to just click on that it opens up my favorite
podcast app.
Link to whatever podcast epic came in through at that
timestamp, right?
Yes, exactly. So then I can immediately see Oh, so let's do
this live but do it live. Hold on a second. Okay, we're open.
Let's see. What What was the it's 140 4552 on 4552. Oh, that
reminds me to interface issue. I want to talk to Steven about
one. Yeah, I know debugging it laughs debugging it live baby.
Okay, let's see what this is. The boost button so I'm
expecting about 30,000 SAS from Dame Jen unless they have a
separate Think about it. Think about it. Yeah, boom right there
even boosts the way they see how that works people.
Beautiful
you just shame people. You tell them hey, you fight what do you
do and boasts a Bose bass boost? And they do it. Thank you, Dame
Jennifer. She understands my how my brain works. Perfect. Steven,
can
you do you support starting at a timestamp? Right?
Sure does. Yeah.
Okay, cool. Well, I'll make that in there. Okay, so we got we got
one that came in. We got one that came in on the transom
here. It's not on I don't have a printout. It's from Jeff it's
just first name Jeff 1000 SATs from Curio caster and he says in
lieu of a live donation this will have to do looking forward
to Episode 48
nice Alright, I
can't crumple it up. Yeah, I guess. Alright. Alright, so
that's, that's everybody so our monthly folks if I can find the
sheet where did the sheet go? Oh God, I've
lost the sheet. Oh, no, no. The sheet sheets what
happened to this last sheet? Oh, if they get it get it fell down.
It was next to my bucket. Okay, your bucket. Yeah, my my desk is
on is propped up on two five gallon buckets. Of course I
understand. Yeah, why not? Alright, so we got Jeff Miller
$20 droid works $20 uS ducote $6.66 Dred Scott $15
Pedram. You know, thank you, Dr. And I want to mention too drab.
I've talked about drugs so much at home to Tina. She's Tina's
looking around on that. I think maybe might have been Twitter or
podcasting. Next, he says, cost is dropped. Let me just check
his profile picture. Let me see what it looks like. Well,
have you seen dreads profile picture?
It's like an alien or something. Right? It's like the pod
friend monster blanket. Drag man. Yeah, it's fantastic.
See, it's just got a 15 just Leslie Martin $2 Terry Keller,
$4.11 or one one, Pedro gone. calvus $5 and Aaron Reno $5. So
that's our monthly gas.
Thank you, everybody. And that's it. Beautiful, beautiful. Thank
you all so much for supporting podcasting. 2.0 value for value.
What you get out of it, you put back into it that keeps it going
if not, eventually the shop closes. But I would say the
enthusiasm is great. And we feel it and we highly appreciate it.
And that is time talent and treasure. So even if you're not
sending financial support, if you're doing anything, even just
retweeting it, that's very valuable really revalidate them
we highly appreciate it. podcasts index.org Donate button
down at the bottom of the page and of course you can always
boost Steven I there's just something I want to say you made
a change in the in the way the progress bar shows and Curio
caster
did when we went over to video. I did that so that when you
watch it full screen is no have that progress bar.
I like that the only thing that I find problematic is if I want
to see. So the progress bar down below shows me what's left,
correct? Yes, yeah, I like that a lot. I somehow it also kind of
like being able to tap on that the album art and it not stop
immediately. But to then be able to see the balance or the full
progress bar with how much is left how much I've listened to
and then tapping on the play pause button would actually
pause it. I'm just just a
personal Orkin man because you just found another bug.
Well, what are you gonna call me? The man? The Orkin man.
Yeah, the
term of the exterminator company terminators. Yeah.
Oh, we have pest control here. Sorry. I'm not saying
get the reference.
Okay, so that's a bug. All right. Okay. I just I decided I
really loved the little icon down below, like, Oh, that's
handy. But then I also just want to see the full view and it
always stops the podcast. Yeah, I need to fix that. That'll be a
weekend project. Okay, one other thing, just because it hit me. I
tried to end so I stopped the clip, I wanted to send, you
know, get a get a clip with the share feature. And it was, oh,
seven minutes and 20 seconds. And I wanted to make it Oh, six
seconds and 20 seconds. And oh, six minutes and 20 seconds. And
when I type in the box, oh six. It just says Fuck you. Oh seven.
All right. So that's two. That's to
keep going. Don't worry.
If you know, if you don't say these things, you know what
happens? You get used to them. Yeah. And this has happened to
me with so many things, so many wonderful pieces of technology
that I was involved in early early on, and I learned all
these crazy workarounds. And so it's like I am not interested in
that product. Too many workarounds even though they've
been fixed for years.
And I appreciate it because I'm not messing around with a lot of
that stuff. And half the time I break something that was working
you're pioneering something else which I did which is the fast
follow which works perfectly within Curio caster what do you
what do you mean so the idea for those who are new because you
can create a fast follow QR code and associated URL that you can
then you know, paste anywhere send to somebody and then can be
scanned by either the carrier if you're in Curio caster, and you
scan it with your camera, then it will take you right right to
the podcast. If you're using your regular like just your
regular phone camera. It'll take you to the to the designated URL
of the podcast. I really I really Love this functionality.
This is something that can work cross app, though is the
question.
Yeah, as long as they follow the the format, and we just add a
hashtag to the end of the URL with fast follow equals and then
the podcast gu ID. That's it. That's it.
Man, you must be killing in the electrical wiring business needs
producing your sweep
that. So the question only on fast follow that I have is
should the URL this referenced? Should it be some sort of
universal landing page? Or should it be the pod the podcast
URL?
I guess what's most has a fallback?
Yeah, no, it has a fallback. But that's what the fallback is
actually what I'm talking about. So so the right now, if you go
to if you go to the fast follow for podcasting, 2.0 I think,
Steven, that you're generating it using the link tag in the
feed, right?
Yeah, yeah, that's obvious. Yeah.
Okay. So some feeds don't have a link tag,
well, they just have to go home.
Well, and you can manually change that to whatever you
want.
But here's what I'm thinking, though. Should there be a sort
of universal? Should there be a fast, fast follow.com? You know,
whatever. Some sort of universal thing that lands on these links,
if they if there's not a link in the feed in Atlanta there. And
what it does is takes the gu ID and converts it into like, I
don't know, 25 different app specific links so that you can
bounce out to whatever app you want. It's like a double
fallback. Yeah, it always works.
Yeah. Basically, if the link is undefined, then we just have
some sort of default page that it goes to.
Yeah. Yeah, I guess by loading an issue or something like that.
You know, okay, I've
registered fast follow.org fast follow calm has already taken
Let me see what people are doing on it. But I got it. Fast.
Fast. follow that link.
Well, you don't like.org
I mean, done. Link is cool, because it's a link because it's
links. Okay, long link is what all the cool kids are doing.
Alright, hold on. Like, pod dot link.
Okay. All right. And we want to be with Nathan's I want to be a
cool kid Hold on a second. I'm gonna be with the with the with
the losers sitting the wrong table at lunch.
Well, you know Nathan should be doing Nathan gathright should be
doing this anyway because he cuz he had it because he was mocking
he was mocking the fast follow the other day. And I'm just
kidding. He was a mocking
Who is this? Who's mocking
Nathan from pod dot link he was he was just playing around but
he he's got the perfect domain for this is called pod dot link.
Yeah, does Alright, fast. follow that link is registered.
Nice. Okay. So
whenever you guys want, I'll point to anything you whatever
you want. Okay, Cory, I'll give you a DNS.
Double fallback. Yeah. Nice. I mean, that that's all I can
all we have to solve. world hunger and homelessness, and we
have done a great job for ourselves.
And Steven can code that up and svelte. Yeah.
All right. We're getting punchy now. Stephen, man, what else?
What else? on the horizon for you? Oh, by the way, do you have
a family? You got a significant other?
Yeah, I've got a wife and she homeschools our three kids. Oh,
beautiful. Yeah. How old is that? That she's got the tough
job. Yeah, no
kidding. How old are you kids? I've had an 11 year old 10 year
old and a four year old. God bless you, man. I can't believe
you have time for breathing. Yeah. four year old wears me out
as a terrorist is a terrorist.
Yeah, yeah. I know.
It's David was like
yeah, from from two to five years depends on the kid
terrorists total dv total up territory.
We had just gotten the two oldest ones right out of that
and they were in the fun age and then comes the third one. Yeah.
And then they before you know it, Dad, I want the keys to the
car. Yeah. I can't let my wife listen now. It doesn't add man.
I've got a 30 year old I've got two step daughters 24 and 26.
And I love them. They're fantastic but doesn't end there.
Like like resource suckers.
That your kids are the same exact age, almost the same exact
age distances. Man, the first two are two years apart and and
then and then the third one is six years behind in that. That
third one is like it's just, it's just long enough to where
you don't have any of the stuff, all the stuff you had is gone.
All the baby stuff is gone. And you forgot how to change
diapers, there's just enough to get out of the game. You know,
you got to relearn everything. When but that young having that
young and around is awesome. Yeah, she's a lot of fun.
All right, Dave, any any updates on the dupes?
dupes are a pain in the butt, huh? That's that's my update.
Okay. Now I have a flow chart. The flow chart is search for
titles. There's actually three dupes three d dupe scripts right
now. And there's, the first two are easy, it's a C hash, and
then a, a direct episode comparison for you for URLs.
Within the 32 script, it's gonna it's gonna it's like the
monolith. This thing, it's the flowchart for it and it's, it
does a title comparison, a fuzzy title match, then when that
comes back, it, it looks for URLs in the episodes that match.
If some of those match, then then it looks for title matches
in the episodes. If also some of those match, then it looks then
the part that I'm on right now is the image comparison then is
first look for image matches on the episode level, and then on
the fee level. And then finally, it will have to differentiate
between you'll have to look for iTunes IDs. And and then it'll
say okay, if this one has an iTunes ID consider it to be the
authoritative version. And then mark the other ones dead. If
they if none of them have an iTunes ID, then that that's
still a question mark on the flowchart. So I mean, it's just
a pain in the butt.
Where you feel you're getting there. You're moving stuff is
happening.
Yeah, it's moving. It's moving. I keep I like I work on it until
I get super frustrated with it. And then I go and switch back
and do something fun. And then I go in then I'll you know, switch
back. I
usually just yeah, just go beat a small animal, usually.
Squirrel. I saw a bobcat the other day. Oh, nice, beautiful
animal.
Do we have we have? What are those things? Like it's not a
lynx? main pan, Panther. No, they're like they're like a cat.
But they're a little bit bigger. There. They're like, somewhere
between a house cat and a dog size isn't
isn't isn't that kind of what one of those mountain mountain
bobcats are.
That they have like pointy they have real point one years. Yeah.
And they have spots. I think that's a lynx. Yeah,
yeah, that sounds more like a lynx to me than a bobcat.
We have those around here every now and there. They're very rare
but one time every now and then you'll see one and it freaks you
out. Yeah,
the real point. Real pointy ears is the is the Lynx and the
bobcat. Although the one I saw is like had white fur. Maybe it
was escaped from somewhere. I don't know crazy people in the
hill country man we have all kinds of weird best.
That's right.
Smokey
My goodness. All right. 143 I think I think we've kind of done
it for this episode. Steven, anything else to add? No, I
mean, I guess just get the word out. And man the podcasters are
the ones who are going to push this they need to let their
audiences know I Oh man. I appreciate
you Curio caster calm
yes Curio caster calm Dave Do you want me to play any of these
end of show things? You have not listened to them? Of course.
Oh, one of them is just a cut down version of Kyle a bears.
It's like It's like a house ad. Oh, cut it down. Put it down to
be nice. chapters, transcripts, images, links stream micro
payments to the podcast and sensitive Oh, she's in real time
over the lightning network using a compatible podcasting 2.0 app.
Just go to new podcast apps.com that's new podcast apps calm and
for more info go to podcast index.org
love it. Thanks to our special guests here in the boardroom
today. Steven Bell Curio casters calm and. and fellow Texan. I
did not know that. We got to hang out. Steven. I'll come
down. I'll come down to San Antonio. All right. Let me know
we'll go get a beer. Oh, for sure. Dave, my friend On the
other end, have yourself a great weekend.
Yeah, man, good to be packing for podcast movement and getting
ready for that. Oh, that's right.
That's right. Are you bringing t shirts or just one for yourself?
Oh, I gotta hold on. Eric hook me up, baby.
I love it. All right. Yes. Eric, thank you very much.
If anybody wants to hook up and have beers or whatever, a
podcast movement, just shoot me an email, David podcast.
index.org I've already got, yeah, of course, a list of
people that you're meeting up with, but if anybody else wants
to join us, let me know.
That's it. podcasting 2.0 Episode 48. We'll see you again
next week. with Dave coming live from podcast movement till then
take care. Have a great weekend everybody.
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