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podcasting 2.0 for May 7 2021,
Episode 36 we're crawling on

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life away here.

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Maybe we are, maybe some other
companies are. Hey everybody,

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welcome to the weekly board
meeting for podcasting. 2.0

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everything that's going on
around podcast index.org It's

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Friday once again, and a lot to
talk about just the two of us

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today. I'm Adam Curry in Austin,
Texas and in Alabama hidden in

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the hive built in his blocks,
ladies and gentlemen.

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We get in our house to get this
huge mulberry tree right next to

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like our Sun entrance. Yeah. And
every time this year, I mean

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like I'm telling you this
thing's massive. And so every

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time right it right at this time
of year, it just starts dumping

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mulberries. If anybody doesn't
know what they are, they will

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call it little blackberries.
Yeah, they're almost identical

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to a Blackberry. And it just it
just sheds these things like by

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the 1000 stains as well when you
walk on them. Oh my god yes like

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that falls on your car. Yeah,
coming in the side entrance it's

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like a trail of purple goo for
like seven feet into the into

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the doorway. Every day. Gotta
hate this tree.

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The best thing about it is the
via we all park on the street

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because we live downtown right?
So then the birds just they eat

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those things. Oh, that's the
worst granite crap that out. Oh,

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yeah, man. That's Purple. Purple
bird crap everywhere.

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Oh my goodness. Yeah, yes.
That's wonderful. Yeah, we don't

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I used to. I used to have a tree
like that. But yeah, now it's in

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Amsterdam. That's right. Oh my
god, Amsterdam. Even the trees

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would just ooze SAP onto your
car

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and layer over it and it was a
mess. You can't get it off Timmy

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scrub and scrub. I mean, it's
like impossible. That's why you

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got to buy a new car. ashtrays
are full. We got a we got the

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the blackberries and mulberry
crap on the roof. It's done.

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ashtrays.

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Oh, man, Dave, what a What an
interesting week.

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I'd like to start off by

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kind of put it in the title.

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Apple screwed the pooch. And
this time. They really blew it

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for themselves. When they're
when they're switched to the

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crawler of all things. Anybody
in podcasting knows. If your app

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does not update a podcast within
a timely fashion, people get

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very angry. And they get very
confused. And then podcaster

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start to call their hosting
companies. What's wrong? Why

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isn't it up? What's wrong with
you? Yes. And and I think I have

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to give the the media the press
for podcasting press, mainly

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independent, a solid F for their
overall reporting is seriously

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it's so disappointing to me that
I hear story after story about

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how Apple is failing, we can get
into that the crawling part in a

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second.

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And I do not think I have come
across one single story or

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article or podcast that said,
luckily, there's an alternative.

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Luckily, there are a whole slew
of apps that also do this very

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well. Luckily, there is a
solution. It's so disappointing

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to me. Damn, it's it's still
that that Apple spell by ca

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Well, the oh and oh, man,
they'll fix it. Maybe they won't

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bug it's a feature. I don't
know. It's funny. It's apple.

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Haha. Let's talk about Spotify.

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And I think we forget how much
money Apple makes. I think

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that's part of the spell. Like I
was hearing the whole Pfizer,

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like $30 billion. And
everybody's like, Oh my gosh,

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they're gonna make me know in
the financial press doesn't make

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$30 billion this year. I was
like, well, Apple made 111

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billion in the last quarter.
Yeah, yeah, there's this 100

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million dollar. There's this
interesting meme that goes

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around in the in the podcasting
press. Well, you know, Apple is

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either just ignoring a billion
dollar industry, like, literally

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one week. Yeah, you know, one
week out of their day, the

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resources cost a lot. And it's,
it's, it's not 1 billion that

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goes to Apple. It's a billion of
B rated advertisements that are

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flopping around. But now let's
talk about subscriptions. That's

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going to be great people, you
are shooting yourselves in the

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foot right now. Boom, boom,
boom, you're killing it. No

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one's gonna listen to you once
people get turned on to

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podcasting 2.0 in the new apps,
I heard Cridland yesterday

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saying it

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And I don't know if this is
true, but he said that he had

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heard at one time that within
Apple, the podcasting division

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was where basically all the all
the screw ups went.

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Did you hear him say that? No, I
didn't hear him say that. But it

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doesn't surprise me. I mean, I
don't that's I don't I hate to

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say that about somebody that
feels so well, let's well, ugly.

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Let me let me let me help you
determine what that means. Okay,

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there's a number. Oh, wait,
wait, let me let me be more

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clear. Okay. I remember what he
said specifically now. He said

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the podcasting division is where
you go, if you don't want to

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have if you don't want to go any
further in your career. Wow.

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A number of people in the
podcasting division are no

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agenda listeners. So that
already puts them right. They're

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probably on the wrong side of
thinking in general. And these

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are the outcasts. Yes. And
people who understand that. And

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I think a lot of these, I don't
know how many women I've met one

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woman, way back in the day who
was working on the on the iTunes

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namespace, oh, gosh, I forget
her name.

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But, you know, it's like, you're
probably already conflicted. If

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you if you really care about
podcasting, because you

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understand the decentralized
nature of it, you understand

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what Apple wants to do.

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And I think some people may have
actually left that division, I'm

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not so sure what's in there. But
bottom line, I'll just to be

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repetitive.

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Apple has no connection with the
podcasters little bit now. But

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you can see how they treat
people they actually take money

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from podcast Connect is a mess.
They have zero representation

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inside the company of app
developers or hosting companies.

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And every single time I hear a
story about you know, well, I

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want to fix this. And they, they
really, they really did a poor

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job. You can't call anybody in.
But you know, we'll see how it

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is next week. They don't care
about you. They just don't. And

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what's sad is because the our
own podcast press is is really

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focusing so much on that and
where I have a Twitter feed

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filled with people saying, hey,
the show hasn't been updated for

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a day. How come a new upload,
can you upload it to Apple? This

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is my favorite. Yeah, which I
can't blame them for. And now

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all I can say is new podcast
apps, calm, new podcast apps

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calm. That's where you got to be
if you want it updated. And, and

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how that works and how we're
making that even better. With

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podcast index is something I
want to get into. But first, I

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need to play a little bit of the
top tech journalist. You brought

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a clip I did. I brought one
clip, the top tech journalist

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who has been doing it for Gosh,
I would say probably 20 years.

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Let me guess who this is? The
top tech journalist. Yeah. When

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and certainly when it comes to

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podcasting,

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apple, you know those types of
topics. Okay, so well, is a man

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or woman.

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Gee, I don't know.

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Man. I got I got no idea.

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This is from I think it's Alex's
office time. It's like a, I

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guess it's I don't know if it's
a YouTube show where they have a

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guest and they have you know, an
audience kind of like a visual

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clubhouse. And this is Leo
Laporte, from this week in tech,

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who, certainly up until I'd say
around 2015 was the place to go

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the Sunday shows. I've been on
the show many times until I

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wasn't on the show anymore.

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When when he was asked a
question about podcasting, 2.0

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his answer, I thought was very
telling about the knowledge of

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what is happening here. And of
course, we don't have a PR

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department. We have a marketing
department. It no one's getting

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paid. You know what? satoshis
that's, that's our model is no

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satoshis will come in. Of
course, we have generous

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supporters of the overall
project, which keeps the servers

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running. But let me guess at Oh,
that's just Adam Curry. He's a

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kook Fenwick. Our friend and
longtime show partner from

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Sacramento says what are your
thoughts on podcasting 2.0

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platform, the one that pod
father is developing, people

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keep asking me that, that it's a
joke. I don't understand. So

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people are confusing what he's
doing with what's other some

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other things that are happening.
Somebody I think it was Chris

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said, Well, I like the chapter
markers that's not podcasting.

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2.0

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Adam Curry is a nutjob. He's a
conspiracy.

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He wants to make a pot. The
whole point of this is a podcast

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directory that Alex Jones and
Infowars can be in. He believes

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that Apple and others are
censoring the podcast

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directories. Yes, they are.
They're keeping people like Alex

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Jones out of it. And so he wants
to create an open podcast

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directory for everybody. Hey,
he's solving a problem that

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doesn't exist.

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Who uses podcast directories?
Explain that to me. You know, he

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wants podcast clients, you know,
some, like pocket casts. Many of

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them have a discover tab and
stuff. He wants them all to use

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the same directory is directory
so that you can discover info

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wars. Sorry, no interest. It's
it's a political thing. It has

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nothing to do with podcasting.
It has more to do with Adam

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Curry, and trying to stay
relevant and his crazy

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conspiracy theorist views. Next
question.

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That's my favorite part. Next
question. This question?

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This is all just a way for you.
This is a pipeline for you to

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get your conspiracy theories.
That's right, baby. And where,

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how come alex jones hasn't been
on boarded yet? What's wrong

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with me? I haven't done this
right.

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Like I didn't even really, it's
good to know that because I may

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have changed my mind about
joining this project if I

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thought he was all about just
getting Alec Jones on

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everybody's discovery tab. And
what I found most interesting.

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Now I think Leo hates me for
whatever reason, but you know,

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it's okay. You can hate me,
don't hate the project. The

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project is not me. The project
is open source. It's for anyone

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to join. But he took it to a
political level. And I just

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wanted to save what's so great
about this project. Someone sent

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me a clip of

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accidental tech Marco's podcast,
and he was talking something

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about, you know, it was a
political thing about masks or

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whatever. And so he showed his
political, his political

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preference. And someone said,
well, man, yeah, but like, first

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of all, I'm not one way or the
other. I'm unaffiliated. But

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second of all, this is the
beauty of this project. We are

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in it for success. Everything
else falls by the wayside. No

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one gives a shit. No one cares.
We and I have to say I will

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continue to be political.
There's one thing that Trump

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said when he was president, when
he was asked the question, how

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do you bring the country back
together? His answer was

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success. If we can all be
successful, everything else

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falls by the wayside. I didn't
think of it much then. But that

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is so true. No one cares. And
now Marco, is actually

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integrating this fix to a
problem that doesn't exist.

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Which is chapters. I think he's
I saw him post, I guess he's

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gonna do some chapter stuff.
Yeah, looks like it. Fantastic.

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Yeah, the, the, I'm glad you
brought that up, because the

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political thing is just
completely irrelevant.

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He said, you know, Leah said,
this has nothing to do with

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podcasting. That's all it has to
do with his podcast. It really

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has nothing to do with anything
else. Like the the whole idea of

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let me just give you an example,
a perfect example. For the

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breeze app, we put into place a
filter, so that I call it a

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filter, I'll be more specific
that needs to be filtered. It

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basically says in any of the API
calls, it will only return

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results that also exist in Apple
directory. So if it doesn't have

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an iTunes ID, it won't get
returned. And that was just to

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keep, you know, political heat
and stuff off of the breeze

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guys. And you know, we did that
for them.

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And that's fine. And you can
turn it on and off. It's a

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parameter in the API call, you
can either use it or not. Yeah.

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And if you don't use it, you get
the full thing. The funniest

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thing about that, though, is it
didn't change anything. Nothing

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changed. There was nothing I
filtered out. Because everything

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is also in one directory. Like
this was never about

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Apple, Apple is going to censor
300 podcasts, and we got to make

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sure we preserve them, because
they're all RSS out there

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anyway, sure, we're going to
include them in the index. And

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you know, we're not going to
pull, you know, pull stuff out

220
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and go policing things. Because
publishing gets you an intro. I

221
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mean, getting editorial control
gets you in trouble. But, you

222
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know, that's what that part is.
The other that the real issue is

223
00:14:02,490 --> 00:14:08,580
that Apple, and these guys that
control the ecosystem, they can

224
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turn it off and stop playing
ball and it kills everybody all

225
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,080
at once, which we just saw
happen. Yeah, this this is why

226
00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:19,560
this is hence my disappointment
with the podcast press because

227
00:14:19,740 --> 00:14:25,620
instead of celebrating the brave
men and and women Hello, we have

228
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Stacey, the brave men and woman
No, we have Dame Jennifer. We

229
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need more, who are putting their
own time effort, that creativity

230
00:14:35,550 --> 00:14:37,200
money into

231
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creating products that will work
with a hope and a promise and an

232
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opportunity to make money on it,
which we know. Yes, the wheel is

233
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,080
spinning, but it takes a while
before everything is kind of

234
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:52,530
there.

235
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With the streaming payments,
instead of celebrating that it's

236
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just ignored. It's just ignored
or it's

237
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It's casually mentioned as I
podcast index over there. And

238
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it's part of the magic, the
mystique.

239
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It's maybe some more social.
It's almost as if it's

240
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impossible for anyone to think
that if it's not coming from a

241
00:15:17,820 --> 00:15:20,550
big company, it can be any good.
And quite honestly, they're

242
00:15:20,550 --> 00:15:24,810
right. In general, you know,
hey, try this podcast that well,

243
00:15:24,810 --> 00:15:27,480
that's wonky. This is weird.
That's funny. This doesn't work

244
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,420
right. Now, does that happen
with Apple, of course.

245
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And it eventually gets fixed in
every single in every single

246
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:39,030
example. It may be that people
have been burned too many times

247
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:42,330
by open source things or what
they thought would be great and

248
00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:44,490
didn't didn't turn out to be
great. But we're in such a

249
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:50,220
consumerist society, that it's
like, toss it aside. Now. And

250
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,770
software developers are like
military troops in America.

251
00:15:56,970 --> 00:16:00,900
As a software developer, app
developers, anyone you ask will

252
00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:04,200
support them, yes, I support the
troops, I support the totally

253
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,200
software developers, when it
comes down to it, no one wants

254
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,750
to know what the troops really
do for a living, no one gives a

255
00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:12,600
flying f about them. Same for
software developers, they don't

256
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,910
really care, it's all virtue
signaling, because they don't

257
00:16:14,910 --> 00:16:18,510
really know, you know, you get
to know a military family, you

258
00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:21,330
get a little more respect about
what's going on, regardless of

259
00:16:21,390 --> 00:16:24,930
agreement with the mission or
not. Right, you know, and so

260
00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:29,790
that respect is is also not to
be found, even for the apple

261
00:16:29,790 --> 00:16:33,510
developers. You know, there's,
there's, there's men and women's

262
00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:37,980
sweating balls over there. Yeah,
I want to go, I want to actually

263
00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:42,000
give, give them a little bit of
relief at some point, because,

264
00:16:42,420 --> 00:16:44,730
you know, I don't want to just
hammer on Apple all the time.

265
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,220
No, especially now that I know
that, that

266
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,200
if they are truly sort of if
that division is truly the way,

267
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,080
the place where you go to sort
of end your career within Apple

268
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,610
ecos within the apple org, then,
you know, that tells me that

269
00:16:59,610 --> 00:17:03,360
they are just not funded, well,
they're just not treated right

270
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,930
within that within that
organization. And so, me from

271
00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:07,800
that standpoint,

272
00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:12,570
you know, I feel sorry for it. I
mean, you know, people are

273
00:17:12,570 --> 00:17:17,250
criticizing them for not having,
like, reaching out to the public

274
00:17:17,250 --> 00:17:22,320
and giving good comms about
what's going on, you know, maybe

275
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they literally can't, because
they don't have an extra person

276
00:17:24,990 --> 00:17:29,070
to do it. I mean, they may not
even have enough people to do

277
00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:32,760
stuff like that. I don't know
that. But you know, going back

278
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,620
to the crawler part.

279
00:17:35,730 --> 00:17:40,110
I mean, it is difficult to write
a good egg, a good robust,

280
00:17:40,140 --> 00:17:44,040
stable, fast aggregate, let me
let me walk you into this,

281
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:49,800
because I want to applaud you,
and to congratulate you on the

282
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,310
work that you have done. And you
know, now it's branching out

283
00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:55,680
more people are getting
involved. But you know, how to

284
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,010
aggregate and anyone who says,
Oh, yeah, we'll just cry.

285
00:17:59,070 --> 00:18:03,930
aggregation is hard. It's hard
to do. It's complicated. You

286
00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:06,960
have over a decade of
experience, which is why, you

287
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,380
know, we were both right for
this project. And Apple has

288
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:14,310
never really had that kind of
experience. And, and they also,

289
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,160
so it's like, when we first
started podcasting, the first

290
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,460
time around, we discovered some
of these very simple things,

291
00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:25,260
such as, when you subscribe to a
new podcast, it's probably not a

292
00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:29,190
good idea for that podcast app,
or pod catcher, as we called it

293
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:33,600
back then, to start downloading
all 50 episodes in the feed, to

294
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,560
ha, okay, these were things that
we learned while doing it. And

295
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,160
it's okay, that's something that
shouldn't be done. Now, when it

296
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,970
comes to crawling, a feed, and
which updates an app when

297
00:18:44,970 --> 00:18:49,260
something is released, if you're
not really in the game, which

298
00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:51,960
Apple hasn't been to that degree
because their app was doing the

299
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,780
crawling, and I want to talk
about that change. And all of a

300
00:18:54,780 --> 00:18:57,300
sudden, you're dependent, you
know, everyone's dependent upon

301
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:01,620
your crawler, and your crawler
is slow, late broken, it's

302
00:19:01,620 --> 00:19:05,010
complicated. It's not easy.
It's, it's, by the way, stop

303
00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:07,620
calling just a crawler,
everybody, this is a complicated

304
00:19:07,620 --> 00:19:10,320
business. It's not just one
little thing that's out there,

305
00:19:10,650 --> 00:19:13,500
crawling around them crawling
around, this is a lot going on a

306
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:15,180
lot of ways that things get
updated,

307
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,170
then you start to make the
mistake that you don't know what

308
00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:23,070
the people expect. And that's
that attention is not there.

309
00:19:23,070 --> 00:19:26,940
They they have so many usability
people on so on everything they

310
00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:31,650
do not on this, you can just
tell. So, so now we're in this

311
00:19:31,650 --> 00:19:34,890
position where and I agree with
you, and they should have

312
00:19:34,890 --> 00:19:37,890
relief. And I'm sorry, we're now
going to go for your jugular. I

313
00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:41,190
mean, now that we have an
opportunity, and that's all I'm

314
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:44,010
doing all days, hey, my show
isn't updated new podcast

315
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:48,060
app.com Go check over here. That
seems to be an important feature

316
00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:49,110
of a podcast app.

317
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,950
The The, the aggregator.

318
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:55,860
The way that aggregators

319
00:19:57,030 --> 00:19:59,610
fall down is just through sheer
numbers.

320
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,350
When you're crawling

321
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,430
2.2 million feeds, which I think
is roughly what Apple has in

322
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:08,700
their, in their directory,
you're crawling to do 2 million

323
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:14,640
feeds, you you need you have to
do optimization, you can't be

324
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,720
crawling all Will you can you
can't even write to the database

325
00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:21,510
fast enough probably at a
certain point. Yeah, at a

326
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:24,900
certain point, you can't. So you
have to do, you know, you have

327
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:28,560
to do some optimization and just
look at smaller pieces of that,

328
00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:33,330
that that update that actually
update on a regular basis. But,

329
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,150
you know, as opposed to that,
I'll give you one good example

330
00:20:36,150 --> 00:20:36,570
is,

331
00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:42,330
you know, there's a bug in, in
our aggregator, and ours has got

332
00:20:42,330 --> 00:20:44,850
bugs, too, and ours is slow,
sometimes, too. I mean, we

333
00:20:44,850 --> 00:20:47,730
don't, you know, we don't do
this thing perfectly by any

334
00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:51,420
stretch of the imagination.
Because they're, they're always

335
00:20:51,780 --> 00:20:55,920
gray areas, where you're not
sure how to handle the situation

336
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,800
best. And that's what
programmers are not good with

337
00:20:59,340 --> 00:21:03,720
programming, programming. 10
programmers and developers tend

338
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,320
to really struggle when it comes
to things that are gray. Like,

339
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:12,360
well, what do I do when these
set of variables don't really

340
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:18,540
mesh out? Well, so you know, one
of the one of the things that I

341
00:21:18,540 --> 00:21:22,260
ran into this past week was the
guest versus Satoshi stream

342
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:25,290
said, there's this one podcast
is Bitcoin podcast from the

343
00:21:25,290 --> 00:21:28,110
Netherlands. It's not, it's just
not updating, and he's got one

344
00:21:28,110 --> 00:21:32,250
item in it. And it hasn't
updated in like, six months. I

345
00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:34,470
go looking for, you know,
looking and digging and digging

346
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:40,500
and digging, and finally figure
out that there's this weird bug

347
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:46,650
where if the gu ID tag within
the item is purely a number,

348
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:51,030
yeah. And and it's got the his
permanent faults.

349
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:56,670
Great case, yeah. Because, you
know, by default, the permanent

350
00:21:56,670 --> 00:21:59,940
you know, you don't have to
specify it. So if it's got those

351
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:03,360
two, those two qualities in the
aggregate, and then the parser

352
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:07,950
would treat would treat it as an
object, a JavaScript object,

353
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:11,490
that to the to the database
insert, and it would fail fail

354
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,270
expecting a string, right. So
that's, that's just one and it

355
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:19,050
had been, probably been this way
for a few months. And I was

356
00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:22,950
like, you know, I swear a fix
this bug before, it may have

357
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:25,170
come back at some point, I
can't, I just can't find where

358
00:22:25,170 --> 00:22:29,610
it came back. But anyway, that's
just one example of literally

359
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:36,270
10,000 different edge cases that
you can hit within your own code

360
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:40,830
and within the feed. And it's
not easy. And I have a feeling

361
00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:45,600
that was happening at Apple, on
their on their aggregator thing

362
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,210
is that they've read, they've
rewritten some or all of it. And

363
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:56,250
they're, they're hitting these
things. And really, maturity is

364
00:22:56,250 --> 00:22:59,790
the only thing that makes your
aggregator worth just takes the

365
00:22:59,790 --> 00:23:03,480
crap takes two guys. Could you
explain to hit the edge case? He

366
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,450
had another one had another one?
And maybe in six months? You

367
00:23:06,450 --> 00:23:09,360
have you haven't good quality?
pochettino? Can you from your

368
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,660
perspective? Since I've heard so
many different versions of this

369
00:23:12,690 --> 00:23:16,440
of this? That? Tell me Tell the
board?

370
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,630
Did you bring your PowerPoint
for the boardroom? No, I brought

371
00:23:21,630 --> 00:23:22,350
the numbers.

372
00:23:24,060 --> 00:23:26,940
Yeah, that was another before
for asked this question. That

373
00:23:26,940 --> 00:23:29,640
was another thing that I
realized, you know, Apple have,

374
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,920
they must have a million
employees. I mean, hundreds of

375
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,490
1000s around the world, when you
live in Apple software world,

376
00:23:35,550 --> 00:23:37,980
and everything just has to me, I
was like, You got your, your

377
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:42,990
numbers, your pages, you've got
your I message you everything?

378
00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:45,210
No, that's the that's what I
was, like, he knows he knows

379
00:23:45,210 --> 00:23:47,880
their PowerPoint, when you have
all that stuff. And you know,

380
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,150
then yeah, it all works great
together. But in the real world,

381
00:23:51,150 --> 00:23:55,500
you know, I have to open up a
Word doc or something and you

382
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,140
know, the all these different
types of things. And or maybe

383
00:23:58,140 --> 00:24:00,540
you just have a regular text
message? Well, that's not really

384
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,810
always doesn't always work with
iMessage. But if you're in the

385
00:24:03,810 --> 00:24:06,390
world of Apple, then you know,
you don't really know that these

386
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:09,480
things are failing, or maybe
even they're going on, when it

387
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,520
comes to the changes that Apple
made. The most recent changes.

388
00:24:15,090 --> 00:24:19,080
What are the main things that
happened from your perspective?

389
00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:23,490
I mean, and, and let's just say
what you really think not, it

390
00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:26,310
might be a bug, whatever, just
what do you really think their

391
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:28,410
choices were and where they're
at right now?

392
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:35,100
I think in general, I think long
term, it was a good idea for

393
00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,190
them to centralize the
aggregation. Okay, so I'll split

394
00:24:38,190 --> 00:24:42,660
this into two into two pieces,
the API and the namespace,

395
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:44,400
because there's problems with
both.

396
00:24:45,930 --> 00:24:49,200
Now Now, the stuff with podcast
connect and all that jazz. I

397
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,130
mean, I knew who the hell knows.
I mean, that that's just

398
00:24:53,130 --> 00:24:56,370
something I know user management
is a whole nother beast. Yeah,

399
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,670
yeah, it's that I don't I don't
know. So but when it comes to

400
00:24:59,670 --> 00:24:59,970
the eight

401
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:00,600
PCI,

402
00:25:01,860 --> 00:25:03,810
I'll say I have ever

403
00:25:04,859 --> 00:25:08,609
my thought on that is a little a
little conspiracy theory kooky.

404
00:25:08,609 --> 00:25:11,459
So So, Leo's right.

405
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:16,139
I think that on the API side,

406
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:20,189
I think there was multiple
decisions that are multiple

407
00:25:20,189 --> 00:25:23,819
factors that went into making
the decision to allow feed URLs

408
00:25:23,819 --> 00:25:29,069
not to be returned. And I think,
in the maybe not stated, but in

409
00:25:29,069 --> 00:25:31,979
the back of everybody's mind,
and I can say this, because I'm

410
00:25:31,979 --> 00:25:36,779
an IT guy, I've been doing this
for 25 years, I understand how

411
00:25:36,779 --> 00:25:42,629
some of this thinking works,
there is a nice benefit you get

412
00:25:43,169 --> 00:25:47,999
by D stabilizing something
within your own within your own

413
00:25:48,809 --> 00:25:53,849
ecosystem that you don't really
care to maintain. So

414
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:58,049
interesting, you have, you have
a you have a product that does a

415
00:25:58,049 --> 00:26:03,809
certain thing. And by side
effect, it has created

416
00:26:03,809 --> 00:26:07,469
dependency on this thing. Now,
maybe this thing is old, maybe

417
00:26:07,469 --> 00:26:11,039
it's legacy, maybe it's hard to
maintain, you just maybe it's a

418
00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:14,969
competitive thing, whatever. And
for some reason, you don't

419
00:26:14,969 --> 00:26:18,449
really want to do this thing
anymore. If you just come out

420
00:26:18,449 --> 00:26:22,319
and you say, we're not going to
do this anymore. We're going to

421
00:26:22,349 --> 00:26:25,589
we're going to, we're going to
drop this feature, if you want

422
00:26:25,589 --> 00:26:26,909
to put it in developer lingo.

423
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:34,680
You immediately get the mob with
pitchforks and torches, you get

424
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,800
that? Yeah. Which is equivalent
to a political fight when it

425
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,920
comes to where Yeah, yeah, and
if you're and if you're Apple,

426
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:43,980
you don't want that right now,
because you've already got all

427
00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:45,870
the Banta trust and all that
garbage.

428
00:26:47,250 --> 00:26:50,220
Coming out, you really just
don't want to come out and say,

429
00:26:50,490 --> 00:26:55,290
Okay, we're not going to include
fate URLs, so that the third

430
00:26:55,290 --> 00:26:59,550
party app ecosystem will not
depend on us anymore. You don't

431
00:26:59,550 --> 00:27:01,740
want to make that statement,
because you don't want to have

432
00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:07,080
to defend it. So but but what
you can do is put in a feature,

433
00:27:07,410 --> 00:27:13,650
you can either put in a feature
that makes it less useful, or

434
00:27:13,890 --> 00:27:18,660
are less reliable. Or you can
just in general, make the thing

435
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:22,470
less reliable by kind of not
caring. And this is what I met a

436
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:26,970
couple weeks ago, and I said, I
don't think they care. Because

437
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:31,290
what I what I really mean is I
think there's a benefit that

438
00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:34,890
they get to long term long term,
let's just say six months, a

439
00:27:34,890 --> 00:27:38,820
year, two years, whatever, to
having the API not be very

440
00:27:38,820 --> 00:27:43,020
stable. And people not being
able to depend on getting feed

441
00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:48,390
URLs from it. If at some point
15 to 20% of feed URLs are no

442
00:27:48,390 --> 00:27:52,140
longer returned in the apple
API. Everybody's going to bail

443
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:55,620
me nobody's gonna use it for
that purpose anymore. And then

444
00:27:55,620 --> 00:27:57,360
they can just drop it. And
they've already been they've

445
00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:01,050
gotten what they wanted. And
they didn't have to ever

446
00:28:01,050 --> 00:28:04,530
announce that they're dropping a
feature, or they're cutting off

447
00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:07,950
competitors or anything like
that. It's just from the outside

448
00:28:07,950 --> 00:28:10,350
world. It's like, oh, the system
got screwed up. It used to be

449
00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:14,430
reliable. Now it's not. And
everybody left. So that's,

450
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:15,960
that's my thinking on the API's.

451
00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:22,200
Interesting, the just going back
to some of the reporting, the

452
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,490
reporting goes like this.

453
00:28:25,950 --> 00:28:31,410
Several apps have moved to use
the podcast index, because

454
00:28:31,410 --> 00:28:33,120
Apple's no longer reliable.

455
00:28:34,620 --> 00:28:39,720
I would, I would like to suggest
that the reporting now go people

456
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,200
are moving to podcast index,
because it's reliable.

457
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:49,380
Yeah, that's another way you can
say it. That's the way it is its

458
00:28:49,410 --> 00:28:50,130
effect.

459
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,680
On the iTunes thing, I mean,
it's give me an iTunes namespace

460
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:56,070
thing.

461
00:28:58,410 --> 00:29:04,020
I think that stuff is a side
effect of them writing a new

462
00:29:04,020 --> 00:29:04,770
aggregator

463
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,170
in some way shape or what, what
has changed when you say the

464
00:29:10,170 --> 00:29:13,650
namespace stuff with them? I'm
not quite sure what the changes

465
00:29:13,650 --> 00:29:17,640
are. Okay. Well, the two things
so far this week has been that

466
00:29:18,540 --> 00:29:19,620
iTunes summary,

467
00:29:20,670 --> 00:29:24,090
the iTunes summary tags seems to
be have been for the most part,

468
00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:27,150
just deprecated. They don't even
seem to be looking at it

469
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:29,970
anymore. Now summary is where I
put my show notes typically.

470
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,900
Yeah, and I've never fully
understood why that thing even

471
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:38,550
exists. It's just seems to be a
duplication of description. I

472
00:29:38,550 --> 00:29:41,340
can tell you historically, what
I think it is. There was an

473
00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:47,280
argument in the very beginning,
and the argument was show notes

474
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,760
and I will take credit for show
notes. I came up with the term I

475
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,250
started saying put it in the
show notes. Now show notes is a

476
00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:53,580
thing.

477
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,970
A lot of developers early on,
were saying we need to have a

478
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,280
tag in the RSS feed for show
notes. And Dave Winer said not

479
00:30:05,310 --> 00:30:08,130
that you can do whatever you
want, but that will be a

480
00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:10,440
namespace, you can add a
namespace for show notes. I'm

481
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,980
keeping this the way it is. And
even though and I, of course,

482
00:30:13,980 --> 00:30:16,350
didn't understand very much at
the time, and I was definitely

483
00:30:16,350 --> 00:30:19,410
more on the side of on my own,
just put that in there. And he

484
00:30:19,410 --> 00:30:21,150
said, Well, you may not
understand it, but it's not the

485
00:30:21,150 --> 00:30:26,070
way to go. And I left it at
that. This is when Adam ATM

486
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,260
popped up. And people are like,
well, we're gonna do it over

487
00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:32,010
here. And we're gonna do it.
Right. Yeah. So I think that

488
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:38,190
when Apple was creating their
namespace, that this was meant

489
00:30:38,190 --> 00:30:41,370
to be some version, and maybe it
was an internal struggle to By

490
00:30:41,370 --> 00:30:45,330
the way, what do we do with show
notes? It was never defined a

491
00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:48,480
lot of people wanted in the RSS
feed. And I think that's where

492
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,650
that may have come from.

493
00:30:50,790 --> 00:30:55,680
Okay, that that makes sense. And
evidently, they have there's

494
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,770
something wrong with that. They
either are not even looking at

495
00:30:58,770 --> 00:31:04,200
that tag at all anymore. Or, or
something is happening there.

496
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,070
Around that tag that's just not
stable. The other ones iTunes.

497
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:14,100
Title title, yeah, these title
tag? Yeah. And so there's, um,

498
00:31:14,130 --> 00:31:16,530
there seems, is that not showing
up either? Is that also not

499
00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:20,070
working the iTunes title? Well,
if you have an episode number,

500
00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:25,200
the iTunes title tag doesn't
seem to be operating correctly.

501
00:31:25,410 --> 00:31:30,390
With regards to the way that
it's it interfaces with the

502
00:31:30,390 --> 00:31:35,040
episode number tag. So you have
the episode The episode, not.

503
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,420
iTunes, episode tag defines the
episode number. And then the

504
00:31:39,420 --> 00:31:42,450
iTunes title tag is supposed to
be just the title without the

505
00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:47,670
number in the title tag, just
the bare title tag, and RSS can

506
00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:52,140
have both the number and episode
name in case you know, it

507
00:31:52,140 --> 00:31:55,830
doesn't encase the the parser
aggregator app doesn't

508
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:58,980
understand how to make those two
mesh. Well, that's just messed

509
00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:04,620
up. Now. It's not working.
Right. And you have, again, it

510
00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:08,970
looks like there's an issue with
either they're trying to

511
00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:12,720
deprecate something, or they're
making decisions about what

512
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:16,350
overrides what, and that's
another thing with aggregation.

513
00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:21,240
So with any with any feed, you
can have, I mean, a feed can

514
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,620
have 12 namespaces in it. Yeah.
And those namespaces may have

515
00:32:25,620 --> 00:32:29,730
tags and do have tags that
duplicate functionality amongst

516
00:32:29,730 --> 00:32:33,660
each other. So for instance, you
have the bear, RSS has

517
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,110
description, and then you're
gonna have iTunes summary.

518
00:32:37,290 --> 00:32:41,310
Without him now you may have,
you may include the content

519
00:32:41,610 --> 00:32:45,810
encoded. So now you have
potentially three different

520
00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:49,380
sources of what you could call
show notes or description,

521
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,890
right? Which one do you choose?
What do you do? I mean, you're

522
00:32:52,890 --> 00:32:55,260
not going to store them all in
the database. That's stupid. Ah,

523
00:32:55,290 --> 00:32:59,010
here's the thought. Since they
are now creating an instance

524
00:32:59,010 --> 00:33:04,290
Apple is now a hosting provider
with the subscription feeds. Is

525
00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:07,830
it possible they made some
decisions as to where those

526
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:12,960
things go for their own hosting
and their own internal data

527
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,650
model? I think that makes a lot
of sense. Yeah. I think that

528
00:33:16,650 --> 00:33:20,250
makes a whole lot of sense. So
now, now, they are having to

529
00:33:20,250 --> 00:33:25,830
make decisions the way we have
always had to make decisions.

530
00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:31,110
Which one takes priority? Which
one do you use? And so if you

531
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:34,170
have, if you ever, if you have
potentially two, three different

532
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,700
you have four different sources
of truth, for a certain piece of

533
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:41,880
metadata you're trying to get
you do you have to make a

534
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,420
decision. But like Martin asked
me the other day on the on the

535
00:33:45,420 --> 00:33:49,620
master, and he was like, Okay,
if if there's an iTunes, title,

536
00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:53,940
and a regular title, what gets
reported in the API results for

537
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:58,080
title, you know, and that's a
decision that had to be made.

538
00:33:58,710 --> 00:34:02,850
You can't you're not going to do
on both. It's dumb. So we every

539
00:34:02,910 --> 00:34:05,700
time you write an aggregator,
you have to make those decisions

540
00:34:05,970 --> 00:34:11,280
in this. This from the outside
looks to me, as if this is Apple

541
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,870
making these decisions in real
time, as they're figuring as

542
00:34:15,870 --> 00:34:19,170
they're writing this thing and
fixing and fixing it.

543
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:25,650
We know that that's an and
they're not, they're not easy

544
00:34:25,650 --> 00:34:30,240
decisions to make. So a lot of
times what you do is you just

545
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:34,770
default back to a sort of
baseline. You say, Okay, well,

546
00:34:34,980 --> 00:34:38,850
alright, let's just do title. We
know title works. When there's

547
00:34:38,850 --> 00:34:43,800
no bugginess about it. We can at
least not for for, let's just

548
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,950
say 75% of shows out there.
It'll work. And then as we see

549
00:34:49,950 --> 00:34:53,910
what happens, we'll make
adjustments along the way.

550
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:57,210
That's, unfortunately a lot of
the wait times the way you have

551
00:34:57,210 --> 00:34:59,490
to do it. We we start stuff in
our aggregator

552
00:35:00,359 --> 00:35:04,709
Like that, where somebody will
say, Hey, here's this feed that

553
00:35:04,919 --> 00:35:08,159
that has these quality, it's,
it's looking weird, it looks

554
00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:08,579
weird.

555
00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:12,810
And so then I go in there and
look at the code and say, Well,

556
00:35:13,380 --> 00:35:17,550
this can probably be better. And
so then you put in some, you

557
00:35:17,550 --> 00:35:20,550
know, some logic that says,
Okay, if this thing happens, and

558
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:23,490
you get this, then do these
other things. And so that,

559
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,890
that's just Unfortunately, the
way it has to go. And that

560
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,700
that's what it looks like, to me
is that Apple is, has created

561
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,850
some new aggregator or some new
parser, or something on their

562
00:35:32,850 --> 00:35:36,810
side, that's going through there
and make and they are adjusting

563
00:35:36,810 --> 00:35:40,770
it. As they see problems arise.
I think we've really come up

564
00:35:40,770 --> 00:35:46,320
with with a good working theory
here. Apple has, and I'll give

565
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,170
the podcast press this. They're
very, they're very impressed

566
00:35:49,170 --> 00:35:53,670
with how Apple implemented their
subscription service. I think

567
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:56,430
that's the product, you know,
Apple went, Okay, subscription

568
00:35:56,430 --> 00:35:58,920
service, we're doing the
hosting, we're doing all the

569
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,640
metadata, make sure it works
with the app. And then

570
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,910
everything you just said falls
into play. While we're doing

571
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:09,090
this. And you know, I'm sure the
RSS feeds that'll kind of work

572
00:36:09,090 --> 00:36:10,560
and turn on the crawler.

573
00:36:11,820 --> 00:36:16,290
If if the subscription feeds
never show any problems at all,

574
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,790
then what does it matter?
Exactly. That goes back to what

575
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:25,020
we said, you know, a couple of
weeks ago, they they within

576
00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:28,470
Apple, I don't think they care
that much about podcasting. They

577
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:31,260
just don't want it to lose
money. They want this to either

578
00:36:31,260 --> 00:36:35,850
be a breakeven or a moneymaker.
And just because you just don't

579
00:36:35,850 --> 00:36:38,940
want that perpetual read on your
balance sheet for the or, you

580
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:41,700
know, in your within your
vision. It's not just that it's

581
00:36:42,210 --> 00:36:46,110
I think it's a boardroom thing.
I think I mentioned this, that,

582
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:49,710
you know, the apple Board of
Directors goes, Hey, Spotify is

583
00:36:49,710 --> 00:36:51,930
kicking our ass, or at least
they're saying they are they got

584
00:36:51,930 --> 00:36:55,380
Rogen, they got the Obamas they
got tow, they got Bruce

585
00:36:55,380 --> 00:36:56,070
Springsteen.

586
00:36:57,090 --> 00:36:59,700
They got to deal with an F.
Yeah, whatever it is, they got

587
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:03,960
all this stuff. Don't we own? It
didn't didn't we? Aren't we the

588
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,050
kings. And of course, the Apple
has bragging rights.

589
00:37:08,490 --> 00:37:11,730
So I think this is where this
upgraded idea comes from. And

590
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,970
it's more in the apple
philosophy of paying for stuff,

591
00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:17,970
which I think in general is
good. Although, you know, how

592
00:37:17,970 --> 00:37:21,720
many podcasts can you afford to
subscribe to? conversely,

593
00:37:23,850 --> 00:37:27,030
some Spotify news, and then I
think I'd like to talk about

594
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:31,200
something else. I got a whole
slew of emails coming in from

595
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,180
Europe, this past week, of
people very, very angry about

596
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:42,180
the ads on the Joe Rogan show.
Really? Yes. Because there was

597
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:46,860
the impression was created, that
when you are a premium

598
00:37:46,860 --> 00:37:51,240
subscriber, ie you pay and you
get ad free music, the

599
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:54,450
impression whether it was a
promise or not, is that podcast

600
00:37:54,450 --> 00:37:57,360
would also be ad free. And

601
00:37:58,410 --> 00:38:02,730
so people are saying, Hey, wait
a minute. Okay, 10 ads at the

602
00:38:02,730 --> 00:38:05,850
front of Joe Rogan. I'm used to
that. But now there's mid rolls.

603
00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:09,660
And and I understand I thought
it was paying not to have ads.

604
00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:12,600
And the answer is worse.
Because, you know, Spotify is

605
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,180
help desk is just going to be a
help desk. And so they

606
00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:17,970
selecting, you know, they select
the answer. And the answer is,

607
00:38:17,970 --> 00:38:21,180
well, this is a feature that
Spotify offers to podcasters

608
00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:24,420
they turn it on independently or
off, we have no control over it.

609
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:28,530
I think in Joe Rogan's case,
that's not true. I'm pretty sure

610
00:38:28,530 --> 00:38:30,330
that that's part of his deal. I
mean, how

611
00:38:31,350 --> 00:38:33,510
they're not going to make it
back on conversions, I have to

612
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:36,180
do some advertising. And that's
the business they want to be in.

613
00:38:36,690 --> 00:38:37,200
So

614
00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:43,110
these are the small little
things that people don't think

615
00:38:43,110 --> 00:38:47,070
about, he really don't get that
without really, I don't know,

616
00:38:47,070 --> 00:38:49,770
talking to your users who are
sometimes known as producers or

617
00:38:49,770 --> 00:38:53,670
listeners who have something to
say, you know, they they're

618
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:58,080
interested and they they have an
experience or not. So there is

619
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:02,130
there's so many things being
done. That is such a big company

620
00:39:02,130 --> 00:39:07,650
stuff. Yeah. Like that's that's
a good point that you know,

621
00:39:07,650 --> 00:39:09,390
you're just talking about
because I've been thinking about

622
00:39:09,390 --> 00:39:10,650
this too. I noticed that

623
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:16,530
there's a couple of twit network
shows that listen to security

624
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:20,160
now. Security now. Yeah, and
Windows weekly.

625
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:26,520
I love Mary Jo Foley. And
there's those are like a lot,

626
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,260
you know, industry or industry
trade mags almost. But the the

627
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,930
so I noticed on one of the
recent episodes that they're

628
00:39:33,930 --> 00:39:35,580
doing like a club membership
now.

629
00:39:37,260 --> 00:39:39,810
Which I think is fantastic. I
think that's, that's exactly

630
00:39:39,810 --> 00:39:43,710
what that's great thing to do.
But the one thing that I see

631
00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:49,650
people consistently doing is and
I don't like this is that they,

632
00:39:49,770 --> 00:39:52,080
they say okay, if you're going
to be if you're going to be in

633
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,740
our club or a member or you're
going to join or whatever, then

634
00:39:55,740 --> 00:39:59,790
you're going to get the ad free
version if you there's something

635
00:39:59,790 --> 00:39:59,970
about

636
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:06,240
That bothers me. It, you should
join, you liked it before you

637
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:10,800
liked the product before you and
you have a fast forward button,

638
00:40:11,490 --> 00:40:19,230
you can just support the show,
as is. Because you know that now

639
00:40:19,230 --> 00:40:24,270
you're giving extra support. And
on top of what they already make

640
00:40:24,270 --> 00:40:28,380
through ads, I guess I just
don't like selling your product

641
00:40:28,380 --> 00:40:33,870
as if it's better without the
ads. Maybe it is, but I don't,

642
00:40:34,050 --> 00:40:37,350
something feels wrong to me
about that. I feel like you

643
00:40:37,350 --> 00:40:40,860
should be okay. There's this old

644
00:40:43,050 --> 00:40:45,840
thing within the Christian
evangelical world when you're

645
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,570
evangelizing to people, you
know, whether you're going to

646
00:40:48,570 --> 00:40:50,100
you're going to give them the
gospel, or whatever you're gonna

647
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:53,070
do like that. There's this old
saying, This is what you went on

648
00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:56,730
with is what you want them to.
It's like, Well, you know, if

649
00:40:56,730 --> 00:41:01,110
you, whatever, whatever pitch
you give somebody at the

650
00:41:01,110 --> 00:41:05,130
beginning of something defines
what they think they're getting

651
00:41:05,130 --> 00:41:11,310
themselves into. And if you
define your product, as if it's,

652
00:41:11,490 --> 00:41:14,880
it's not as good right now,
because of the ads, but we're

653
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,030
going to give you the better
one. If you subscribe.

654
00:41:19,620 --> 00:41:26,250
I don't like the way that feels.
Is that weird? Or? No? No. In

655
00:41:26,250 --> 00:41:28,620
fact, let me see I had

656
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:31,290
a clip.

657
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:36,150
Let me see if I can find it now.

658
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,200
It was something was something
from I Heart Radio. Okay. And

659
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,930
the lady was talking about
subscriptions they might have

660
00:41:45,930 --> 00:41:47,880
been on might have been on.

661
00:41:49,980 --> 00:41:52,560
Sounds rolling your toe? Yeah, I
know which one you're talking

662
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,250
about? Yeah. And let me see is
it sound I can't remember where

663
00:41:56,250 --> 00:42:00,180
I want to label this clip as
and, and she was saying, Well,

664
00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:01,950
of course, you know,
subscriptions are great. So you

665
00:42:01,950 --> 00:42:02,430
can have

666
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,340
early content windows premium
content exclusive. So I'm like,

667
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,840
Well, what is left? Why Why
bother? Why bother? And by the

668
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,450
way, you're listening to the
free piece of crap. That is no

669
00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:19,320
good. It's not premium. It's not
Supreme. It's not early access.

670
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,400
It's not exclusive. It's just
crap. Yeah, you wind up, you

671
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,370
wind up literally making
something that is inferior, why

672
00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:30,300
bother and I know why the
transition is scary. When Dvorak

673
00:42:30,300 --> 00:42:34,350
and I went, what we now call
value for value. 14 years ago.

674
00:42:35,550 --> 00:42:37,680
We didn't have a lot to lose, we
had jobs.

675
00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:43,140
But even getting over the hump
of saying I don't work for tips.

676
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,140
Thank you very much. I don't I
don't work for tips.

677
00:42:47,250 --> 00:42:50,520
If you value my product, and
then send me something whatever

678
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,420
you think that value is and that
is valid especially as a

679
00:42:54,420 --> 00:42:59,790
broadcaster is very very very
weird. It's weird an NPR

680
00:43:00,810 --> 00:43:05,130
pledge week you know which
everyone on NPR hates that

681
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:08,400
pledge week again, we got she'll
from money to get my damn tote

682
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,090
bag. Where's you can make you
can make the story so fun and so

683
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:15,510
interesting. And like right now
I'd like you to boost us boost

684
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:18,690
boost. If you're on Brees,
swings, chat, pod friend pod

685
00:43:18,690 --> 00:43:22,890
station browser extension, boost
us crank up the value sliders,

686
00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:26,730
send us whatever you think it's
worth in real time. You know,

687
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,640
well, I just did it. And you
know what it works, it's gonna

688
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:35,010
work, but can for like Tom
woods. And we he interviewed me

689
00:43:35,010 --> 00:43:37,860
a while back and a great time.
And I think we see eye to eye in

690
00:43:37,860 --> 00:43:40,140
a lot of stuff. He was
fascinated. And then when

691
00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:43,050
Satoshi started flowing, I said,
Hey, man, want me to set you up?

692
00:43:43,050 --> 00:43:47,220
And he said, you know, thanks,
man. But you know, I we have, we

693
00:43:47,220 --> 00:43:50,100
have a great subscription model
now. And, and everything's

694
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:52,680
working perfectly. And I don't
want to piss anybody off. So

695
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,540
okay, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah.
And I understand now. And in

696
00:43:57,540 --> 00:44:03,630
many ways, no agenda show is the
same thing. You know, the, the

697
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,560
value for value payment is would
not replace what we get through

698
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,320
PayPal right now. It's just they
won't it's not enough people and

699
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,070
not have apps, but not enough
familiarity. And not Bitcoin is

700
00:44:14,070 --> 00:44:16,890
a there's a whole bunch of
reasons why it won't replace it.

701
00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:20,310
And it could take a while. Now,
of course, I get around that by

702
00:44:20,310 --> 00:44:23,160
promoting it and telling people
to do it anyway. But it's not

703
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,080
our not our major focus.

704
00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:29,970
So it's hard to scary. It's
scary for people, but man.

705
00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:35,430
I just, you know, one part of
this too, that I want to bring

706
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:39,000
up is the fact that apps need to
do this too. You know, we're

707
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,420
talking about developers being a
being in the food chain. Yep.

708
00:44:42,420 --> 00:44:46,350
From the beginning of this
thing. And it's not. There's way

709
00:44:46,380 --> 00:44:49,260
this is, I've heard this being
called like the year of the

710
00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:52,860
Creator, and all this kind of
stuff. Well, I mean, developers

711
00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:55,890
are creators too. And again,
they're always just they are

712
00:44:55,890 --> 00:44:59,520
just always getting left out of
this game. And people like to

713
00:44:59,520 --> 00:44:59,970
jump in.

714
00:45:00,570 --> 00:45:04,650
And criticize apps. You know, I
saw somebody on Twitter the

715
00:45:04,650 --> 00:45:05,640
other day that was like,

716
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:10,410
Oh, I tried to podcasting,
people know, apps and they all

717
00:45:10,410 --> 00:45:14,910
suck. And I thought, Oh, well,
you know, that's real helpful,

718
00:45:14,940 --> 00:45:18,480
buddy. I think I'm replying to
that guy. I'm pretty sure I had

719
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:19,440
something to say to him.

720
00:45:20,910 --> 00:45:23,670
Yeah, you know what these are?
These are people that are

721
00:45:24,690 --> 00:45:28,380
newsflash, you don't make a lot
of money making a podcast? Well,

722
00:45:28,380 --> 00:45:32,130
by that same token, and I
mentioned this to Martin, if

723
00:45:32,130 --> 00:45:34,740
you're a podcast, app developer,
and you're implementing value

724
00:45:34,740 --> 00:45:38,760
for value, why are you setting
the default attend satoshis?

725
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:43,950
Just ask yourself that question.
Is that is that the bottom line

726
00:45:43,950 --> 00:45:47,100
that you value yourself out as
well? Because if you get a piece

727
00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:49,980
of that is your product. I'm not
saying people shouldn't be able

728
00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:54,750
to do 10. But is that really do
you think? Is that how you value

729
00:45:54,750 --> 00:45:57,900
your work? And so I was
delighted to see Martin, who

730
00:45:57,900 --> 00:46:03,240
still has his fixed values to up
it from 250 and 500 boosts? I'm

731
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:06,510
like, yeah, that's feels a
little more reasonable. So yeah,

732
00:46:06,540 --> 00:46:09,540
it's a mindset, we also have to
be proud of what we're doing.

733
00:46:10,410 --> 00:46:13,260
And we have and we and you know,
when someone criticizes me for

734
00:46:13,260 --> 00:46:19,380
my content, that I'm deeply
offended, always. It hurts. And

735
00:46:19,890 --> 00:46:24,030
I find that sometimes I can
engage, and it will make me

736
00:46:24,030 --> 00:46:27,270
better, sometimes it will just
piss me off. And because it

737
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:29,850
pisses me off down the road,
it'll make me better.

738
00:46:31,410 --> 00:46:34,110
But it's a lot more enjoyable
when people are helpful.

739
00:46:35,340 --> 00:46:37,890
And so I used to say, you know,
when people like, well, this

740
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:40,950
sucks, man, you should do this.
You do that. I say, you know,

741
00:46:41,340 --> 00:46:45,480
you should do a podcast. It's
easy. Yeah, seriously, oh, hey,

742
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,050
you should develop an app. It's
so easy. There's it's just you

743
00:46:49,050 --> 00:46:51,900
just get the framework. You plug
it in, it works. Nothing. No, no

744
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:54,930
bugs. No hiccups? No, nothing.
Yeah, well, that goes back to

745
00:46:54,930 --> 00:47:01,050
the Apple thing. We, you know,
our aggregator has bugs. But we

746
00:47:01,050 --> 00:47:06,270
literally survive on like, you
know, $500 a month of donations.

747
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,080
They make a million dollars,
every 10 minutes. I mean,

748
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,800
there's really, ultimately no
excuse for the for being, you

749
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,860
know, bad quality. When you
have, you know, the biggest

750
00:47:16,860 --> 00:47:19,260
budget in the whole world. Well,
you know, you're talking about

751
00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:22,920
people, people be beating their
head against the wall, working

752
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,600
late, working on lunch breaks,
trying to create new podcast app

753
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:32,160
experiences. I mean, they're not
making any money, and they're

754
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:38,550
doing this in their spare time.
Like, that's all Yeah, it's a

755
00:47:38,550 --> 00:47:40,800
bigger problem in society. You
know, my example of the

756
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,680
military. Military makes $30,000
a year most most men and women,

757
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,570
police officers, firemen,
nurses, teachers, actually,

758
00:47:51,570 --> 00:47:53,970
they're doing better, but that's
a whole different conversation.

759
00:47:55,350 --> 00:47:59,610
You know, and we think often
like, boy, I got shit servers

760
00:47:59,610 --> 00:48:03,360
from the fire fire department or
the police department or, or the

761
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,300
military, you know, get out of
Afghanistan. Yeah, whatever,

762
00:48:06,330 --> 00:48:08,850
whatever people are yelling, you
when you

763
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,970
humanize the people behind it.

764
00:48:13,650 --> 00:48:17,760
If you can, that really opens up
your mind. And so it's the same

765
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,290
with software developers, is I
wish that I wish that they would

766
00:48:22,290 --> 00:48:25,590
start putting, like, like Mitch
and Martin.

767
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:31,050
I wish that they would start
putting into their apps. Just a

768
00:48:31,050 --> 00:48:34,470
straight up donation button for
them. Yeah. To where you can

769
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:39,150
just boost satoshis straight to
them. On top of this is a good

770
00:48:39,150 --> 00:48:44,940
idea. Yeah, like value. The end.
This is a larger add on. Not

771
00:48:44,940 --> 00:48:49,950
sure. I don't want to get into
that we're on the trail. The

772
00:48:50,220 --> 00:48:53,400
train of topics today anyway,
I'll say yes, for another one.

773
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:58,170
But the one thing I want to I
want to bring up is

774
00:48:59,280 --> 00:48:59,910
the

775
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,940
the whole idea of of listeners
changing their their own splits

776
00:49:06,570 --> 00:49:09,450
that they were talking about
today on the mastodon? Yes. That

777
00:49:09,450 --> 00:49:14,580
was an interesting, very
interesting idea Martin had. And

778
00:49:14,940 --> 00:49:20,190
so what he showed was a panel,
where this is your default, per

779
00:49:20,190 --> 00:49:24,540
minute stream and boost amount.
There's four podcasts specific.

780
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:27,840
And then he had another little
thing there, which was to change

781
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,130
the split amounts.

782
00:49:30,510 --> 00:49:34,530
Or the Yes, per per person in
the split.

783
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:37,920
Yeah, very interesting.

784
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:43,290
It's a great idea. And I think,
you know, so this is kind of

785
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:48,150
Gail. Gamma said, at the end,
it's the users money and it's

786
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:51,150
voluntary, and it is voluntary
basis. My policy is to give the

787
00:49:51,150 --> 00:49:54,330
user full control for better or
worse, and I kind of want to end

788
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,140
it. I wanted to bring that
specific comment, because I

789
00:49:58,140 --> 00:49:59,760
understand what he means.

790
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,920
I agree with him in principle.

791
00:50:03,540 --> 00:50:07,680
But there's the problem, though,
I think comes down to

792
00:50:10,019 --> 00:50:12,599
apps guide users in a certain
way.

793
00:50:13,889 --> 00:50:18,389
And part of guiding the user is
putting some sort of guardrails

794
00:50:18,389 --> 00:50:22,949
on that, that you can't avoid
that. So what you can say, for

795
00:50:22,949 --> 00:50:27,479
instance, content security
policies, CSP policies on web

796
00:50:27,479 --> 00:50:33,569
browsers, that that lets the
website dictate to the browser,

797
00:50:33,779 --> 00:50:37,349
what JavaScript is allowed to do
within this page, within this

798
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:41,879
page, you could say, well, I
don't want a browser that that

799
00:50:41,939 --> 00:50:44,189
does that. I want it to be
completely free, I want the user

800
00:50:44,189 --> 00:50:46,709
to be able to do whatever they
want to with this, execute

801
00:50:46,709 --> 00:50:48,029
whatever JavaScript they want
to.

802
00:50:49,410 --> 00:50:53,160
But that's, and you could go out
and create a browser that allows

803
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,060
that, but that's what he said,
Well, I don't want them the

804
00:50:57,060 --> 00:51:01,770
website dictating what I can do
in my browser. But, you know,

805
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:06,120
within a certain set of limits,
we think that that's probably

806
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,580
okay. And it's not worth doing
that.

807
00:51:10,170 --> 00:51:14,370
Because, what's what's to stop?
If you give complete control to

808
00:51:14,370 --> 00:51:18,450
the user? what's to stop them
from just

809
00:51:19,710 --> 00:51:23,280
since marking it where Okay,
every time I listen to this

810
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,710
podcast, I'm going to have it
send all my stats to this other

811
00:51:25,710 --> 00:51:30,360
podcast. Let me sort of weird
crap like that. Let me let me

812
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,780
offer a solution. And then two
issues, which I think may help

813
00:51:33,780 --> 00:51:39,120
us figure this one out. One, to
me, the solution is, make it

814
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,350
possible for me to boost an
individual on the split. So if I

815
00:51:43,350 --> 00:51:47,040
think the chapters were super
great, make it possible for me

816
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,790
to add a little something extra
just to Dred Scott, in this

817
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:53,640
case? I'm okay with that. I
think that's an interesting way

818
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,620
to do it. The second part is,
what is the source of truth? The

819
00:51:58,620 --> 00:52:02,430
feed has to be the source of
truth. If that's being

820
00:52:02,430 --> 00:52:08,100
overridden, at any level, it can
have all kinds of implications.

821
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:16,110
So for example, if there's an
app that allows users to change

822
00:52:16,110 --> 00:52:18,420
the split, as determined by the
podcaster,

823
00:52:19,530 --> 00:52:22,020
maybe I go to that podcast and
say, Hey, you know, what, should

824
00:52:22,020 --> 00:52:24,900
I just delete that podcast app
SATs and give them to you from

825
00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:29,550
the from the index? I mean, the
end, will never, that will never

826
00:52:29,550 --> 00:52:30,540
end that bullshit,

827
00:52:31,950 --> 00:52:34,860
is that anyone can intervene
anywhere, and there's no

828
00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:37,860
gentlemen's agreement as the
source of truth is the feed.

829
00:52:39,060 --> 00:52:42,930
And it's not just something
superficial, it's money. It's a

830
00:52:42,930 --> 00:52:47,340
little it's a little different
than although, so here's another

831
00:52:47,340 --> 00:52:54,930
example. Sir Jean, has a tag of
force speed. And he wants this

832
00:52:54,930 --> 00:52:59,790
tag to function as the following
way. He records his podcast, and

833
00:52:59,790 --> 00:53:03,150
then an app that recognizes that
tag, tag, the playback spec

834
00:53:03,150 --> 00:53:06,240
can't remember what the tag is,
he wants it to automatically set

835
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:07,860
it to 1.25.

836
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:16,950
Now, is that something valid is
is is that tag now interfering

837
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:20,700
with my experience, I'm against
the tag, by the way. I mean, if

838
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:23,760
you want to fast forward, stop,
pause, fast, slow, whatever you

839
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,820
want to do. That's what the app
does. But now to have the

840
00:53:26,820 --> 00:53:30,840
podcast or change how my app
works, to something that I will

841
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:35,160
every single time have to go and
set it back to one to one or the

842
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:38,940
app developer will have to add
functionality that you override

843
00:53:38,940 --> 00:53:41,790
it. And it's like there's a
certain point where you have to

844
00:53:41,820 --> 00:53:43,050
stop with this stuff.

845
00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:45,450
Yeah.

846
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:50,430
Another example would be, let's
say that at some point in the

847
00:53:50,430 --> 00:53:54,150
future that podcasting 2.0 if we
make a deal with some sort of

848
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:59,220
charity, we're gonna give them
10% of our split. Well, I mean,

849
00:53:59,670 --> 00:54:04,590
I don't really want users being
able to say, Well, I don't, I

850
00:54:04,590 --> 00:54:08,040
don't want to give any of that
to charity. I think there's just

851
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:08,910
sort of like a.

852
00:54:11,010 --> 00:54:15,360
And in the fact is, if, if
people if it's a big enough

853
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:20,880
issue, and like a gamma, I mean,
he's, he can He's fine. Like he

854
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,730
would fall into this category,
where what I was about to say is

855
00:54:23,730 --> 00:54:28,050
people can write their own apps
that do this, you know, it's all

856
00:54:28,050 --> 00:54:30,600
open, you can do whatever you
want. If you want to write a

857
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,660
podcast app that does
specifically that, that just

858
00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:36,390
allows people to sling SAS all
over the place wherever they

859
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:40,950
want. That probably has a market
and you could write it. I'm

860
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:45,930
just, I just think for a, a,
just over sort of a main line,

861
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:51,090
podcast experience app. It,
there are guardrails that we

862
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:55,290
sort of everybody expects there
to be. And I don't know that

863
00:54:55,290 --> 00:54:59,760
that's really ultimately the
best thing for every app to do.

864
00:55:00,210 --> 00:55:03,930
But as in the concept, okay,
maybe we should just split this

865
00:55:03,930 --> 00:55:09,450
up, the concept of the value
block splits is for a creator,

866
00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:14,820
to reward other people who make
the product with him or her. And

867
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:20,310
the value of that is determined
by the person who is ultimately

868
00:55:20,310 --> 00:55:21,480
publishing the work.

869
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,930
I've just feel that their value
judgment to make I love the idea

870
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,740
of, hey, this particular thing
was great or this host was

871
00:55:31,740 --> 00:55:34,890
better, it's fine to with me, I
liked that host better on this

872
00:55:34,890 --> 00:55:38,070
show, I'm just going to boost
that person a little extra. But

873
00:55:38,070 --> 00:55:45,060
to change the core feature of
the of the split, is actually

874
00:55:45,060 --> 00:55:49,890
going to ruin the idea of
removing ASCAP, BMI, Harry Fox

875
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:54,450
agency, all these asshole
companies who take in money

876
00:55:54,450 --> 00:55:58,020
digital royalties, and then
really wind up giving pennies on

877
00:55:58,020 --> 00:56:03,090
the dollar to everybody. So from
my own, from my own mission,

878
00:56:03,390 --> 00:56:05,130
that it would be very
destructive.

879
00:56:06,210 --> 00:56:09,630
Yeah, I think so too. I just
think there's a, there's an

880
00:56:09,630 --> 00:56:12,570
expectation of the open
standard, working the way that

881
00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:16,260
everybody thinks it would. But
then there's always this other

882
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:19,170
thing you can do. I mean, sure,
you can always have a browser

883
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,840
you can do, you can use no
script in your browser, and that

884
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,930
blocks all JavaScript, if you
want to go it's gonna, it's

885
00:56:24,930 --> 00:56:26,790
going to completely break a
bunch of websites. And it's

886
00:56:26,790 --> 00:56:29,820
going to make everything kind of
chaotic. But you can do it in an

887
00:56:29,820 --> 00:56:32,760
interesting way is kind of
reverse ad blocker. You know,

888
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,970
it's like, we have ad blockers
so that people can't make money

889
00:56:35,970 --> 00:56:39,930
off of us. And now we have this
reverse system where I'm going

890
00:56:39,930 --> 00:56:43,020
to make less money because
someone wants to change the way

891
00:56:43,050 --> 00:56:47,070
it works. I mean, yeah. And, and
I agree with you, that's fine.

892
00:56:47,700 --> 00:56:51,990
If that's what if that, if
that's what an app or some apps

893
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:53,970
want to do? I mean, I obviously
can't stop it.

894
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,280
I can somebody lead, my voice
may just irritate the hell out

895
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,040
of everybody. And they may or
out of out of like five people,

896
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:07,530
and they want to slam on his way
to add, yeah, punish you with a

897
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,560
I mean, there's, there's an app
out there that can do it. So you

898
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,200
know, but in general, that
doesn't seem like the way that

899
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,130
we expect it to work out. Do you
want to hear a funny ad? Oh,

900
00:57:17,130 --> 00:57:21,120
yeah. And by the way, I want to
reiterate, I really appreciate

901
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,440
Martin, throwing that into the
group is a very, very

902
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,530
interesting question. A very
good idea. And maybe we haven't

903
00:57:28,530 --> 00:57:33,270
spoken the last of it. Yeah, but
I appreciate that. That's again,

904
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:38,280
the beauty of this group is just
phenomenal thinkers and doers.

905
00:57:39,690 --> 00:57:42,990
It's your It's a shame that all
we care about here is conspiracy

906
00:57:42,990 --> 00:57:45,540
theories. And Alex Jones,
because otherwise, otherwise,

907
00:57:45,540 --> 00:57:48,300
there'd be some great ideas is
Alex Jones on board and yet?

908
00:57:49,740 --> 00:57:50,970
Is this the angel of hope?

909
00:57:52,650 --> 00:57:54,540
No, this is good.

910
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:57,300
porn, bad porn, Ed,

911
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,680
I can have a lot more respect
for something that at least

912
00:58:01,770 --> 00:58:04,800
stood up to some obvious

913
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:10,170
detrimental things in society
like pornography.

914
00:58:12,660 --> 00:58:16,170
Hey, Francis, do you like to
keep your online activity?

915
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,860
Private? Yes. Um, I mean, sure.
Think about everything you've

916
00:58:19,860 --> 00:58:23,910
ever browsed search for watched
or tweeted? Now imagine all of

917
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:26,640
that data has been crawled
through collected and aggregated

918
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,060
by third parties into a
permanent public record.

919
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:31,890
You are

920
00:58:32,970 --> 00:58:36,930
with this for a VPN or
something? Yes. Yes. This their

921
00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:39,600
interview in this lady.
Interesting lady, by the way,

922
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:41,940
it's on this podcast called
trigonometry.

923
00:58:43,110 --> 00:58:46,740
Which I've read a couple of
episodes, and they're both

924
00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:52,890
pretty good. But so this lady
who was quite interesting, I'm

925
00:58:52,890 --> 00:58:53,730
not sure.

926
00:58:55,620 --> 00:59:00,390
She heard her theory is that the
sexual revolution created what

927
00:59:00,390 --> 00:59:04,890
we have now is identity
politics. I don't know that I

928
00:59:04,890 --> 00:59:10,350
really follow her or agree with
her sort of basic premises. But,

929
00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:13,890
but some of her conclusions are
actually really very

930
00:59:13,890 --> 00:59:17,010
interesting. But anyway, so she
goes on this rant about about

931
00:59:17,010 --> 00:59:20,760
pornography and how it's bad.
And then like, and then like,

932
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,910
one second later, there's an ad
ExpressVPN

933
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:29,820
porn secret? Yeah. Yeah.
Perfect. Well, that you had an

934
00:59:29,820 --> 00:59:33,150
ad if you had an ad free
experience for your members.

935
00:59:33,150 --> 00:59:36,210
Only thing you would never you
would never have that. Very

936
00:59:36,210 --> 00:59:37,770
enjoyable moment. Exactly.

937
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:43,050
Eric actually gave us a pretty
good list of stuff we should

938
00:59:43,050 --> 00:59:45,000
talk about and let everybody
know what's going on.

939
00:59:46,410 --> 00:59:47,910
Which is all you really

940
00:59:50,340 --> 00:59:55,140
what it's all you all the things
on this list are all you let's

941
00:59:55,140 --> 00:59:59,610
say this is this are begging for
money list. Well, now I

942
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,970
I don't really see it that way,
I think it's important to touch

943
01:00:02,970 --> 01:00:05,280
on touch on a couple of things

944
01:00:06,660 --> 01:00:09,750
that are going on. The first one
is pod ping, which is, you know,

945
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:13,350
this is how we are making our
aggregation, our updates our

946
01:00:13,350 --> 01:00:17,460
notifications better. And you're
putting a crapload of work into

947
01:00:17,460 --> 01:00:17,670
it.

948
01:00:18,930 --> 01:00:23,430
Yeah, um, I'm pretty excited
about it. If it works.

949
01:00:24,570 --> 01:00:24,930
I mean,

950
01:00:26,250 --> 01:00:30,990
it's, it's where most of my
focus is right now. I don't, I

951
01:00:30,990 --> 01:00:33,150
don't know. I mean, how deep do
we want to get into it? Because

952
01:00:33,150 --> 01:00:36,270
it's changed quite a bit. Do we
want to don't need to go down

953
01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:40,230
the rabbit hole? I would say,
just tell us where we're at. I

954
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:42,390
think people who need to be in
the rabbit hole are there. But

955
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:46,980
most importantly, I think it's
Tom Rossi. buzzsprout. He's,

956
01:00:47,010 --> 01:00:49,080
he's in on it. He's getting
ready to help us with it, I

957
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:49,530
think.

958
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,370
I hope Yeah. Man, the whole
light. And you know, there were

959
01:00:53,370 --> 01:00:57,360
some questions. Martin was like,
well, the podcast apps use this

960
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,730
or talk about a high level
overview, just so people know

961
01:00:59,730 --> 01:01:02,280
what we're doing, which will of
course be superior than Apple

962
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:06,270
was at any time Welcome to to
join podcasting 2.0, we would

963
01:01:06,270 --> 01:01:08,910
appreciate if they made a
donation, because it will take a

964
01:01:08,910 --> 01:01:09,960
lot more servers.

965
01:01:10,980 --> 01:01:14,880
But this is kind of a general
thing for the whole ecosystem.

966
01:01:15,660 --> 01:01:21,480
Well, that's if we design this
thing, right? It is absolutely

967
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,250
something that Apple could use
easily, easily. And they and

968
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,760
every little seriously,
everybody in the whole industry

969
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:34,920
can benefit from this. This is
not anything that really has to

970
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:41,940
be a turf war. So the structure
that we're at right now is,

971
01:01:44,010 --> 01:01:48,480
and this was born out of out of
what we were calling Hydra,

972
01:01:48,510 --> 01:01:51,870
which was this idea that we
wanted to be able to crawl feeds

973
01:01:51,870 --> 01:01:57,120
faster by just making it
distributed. Well, that we've,

974
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,720
that's I gave up on that just
because it's just way too hard.

975
01:02:00,750 --> 01:02:04,560
I don't want to accidentally
DDoS people. And things like

976
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,260
that is it is just too, it's too
difficult.

977
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:14,670
What we settled on now, is this
idea we're calling pod Ping. And

978
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:20,220
it will still maintain the
initial idea where there's one

979
01:02:20,460 --> 01:02:24,990
DNS name that you send a get
request to if you're a host,

980
01:02:25,260 --> 01:02:27,300
okay, if your fireside.

981
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:33,150
And one of your podcasters, one
of your creators on your on your

982
01:02:33,180 --> 01:02:38,790
platform, as a new episode, you
will send a get request to pod

983
01:02:38,790 --> 01:02:44,910
pain cloud with a with a URL
equals parameter, and then the

984
01:02:44,910 --> 01:02:48,540
full URL of the feed of the
public feed. And that's it.

985
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:55,020
That's it, then all the the host
has to do. What happens next is

986
01:02:55,320 --> 01:03:00,420
the front end, then I'm almost
done. I think I'm on the quote

987
01:03:00,420 --> 01:03:02,130
unquote, I think I'm almost
finished

988
01:03:03,420 --> 01:03:08,130
writing it, the front end, takes
that URL, sticks it in a queue.

989
01:03:09,660 --> 01:03:16,920
And then every three seconds, it
flushes the queue. And so when

990
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,910
and what that means is it takes
each URL that's queued up and

991
01:03:20,910 --> 01:03:24,690
writes it to the hive
blockchain. And that's that's

992
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:29,520
the difference. What we had what
I had had designed before was a

993
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:35,010
series of servers and just to
manage the influx pings, etc.

994
01:03:35,550 --> 01:03:39,390
Yeah, and to make it into try to
make it decentralized. This

995
01:03:39,510 --> 01:03:43,860
simply writes it to the hive
blockchain. Now, blockchain is

996
01:03:43,860 --> 01:03:49,590
publicly viewable by anybody,
without any anybody and anybody

997
01:03:49,590 --> 01:03:53,580
can do updates from it. Anybody
can all you got to do is and

998
01:03:53,580 --> 01:03:57,270
watch and watch it watch the
blockchain whenever you can. The

999
01:03:57,270 --> 01:04:01,440
Hive blockchain updates every
three seconds. Whenever a URL

1000
01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:04,260
appears with a certain
structure. In the hive

1001
01:04:04,260 --> 01:04:07,350
blockchain, you know that that
feed has updated in it, the

1002
01:04:07,350 --> 01:04:10,290
publisher, the platform
themselves are the ones that

1003
01:04:10,290 --> 01:04:14,760
said that it updated that, when
you see it, you can go ahead and

1004
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:19,800
repol it and pull that feed and
get the new episodes if it works

1005
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,640
correctly. And testing is what
will have to be started doing

1006
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:25,530
next. If it works correctly,

1007
01:04:26,580 --> 01:04:27,150
then

1008
01:04:28,260 --> 01:04:32,370
every app and every app
directory or podcast directory

1009
01:04:32,370 --> 01:04:37,140
out there can know that a new
episode has been published

1010
01:04:37,380 --> 01:04:38,520
within 10 seconds.

1011
01:04:39,660 --> 01:04:44,610
With with no processing power
required to push those

1012
01:04:44,610 --> 01:04:48,480
notifications on our side. Right
the only the only thing they

1013
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:53,760
have to do is just watch the
blockchain for notifications. So

1014
01:04:54,030 --> 01:04:58,800
that's that's the idea very
elegant and I'm very happy that

1015
01:04:58,800 --> 01:04:59,970
Brian of London pushed

1016
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,690
pushed and pushed on hive makes
so much sense. This is a great,

1017
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,900
great use of it. I never saw it.

1018
01:05:08,550 --> 01:05:11,190
I never saw it as a big
contributing

1019
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,150
thing because I was looking at
it like it's financial. Yeah, me

1020
01:05:15,150 --> 01:05:17,700
too. And financial world. Yeah,
that's from a technical level

1021
01:05:17,700 --> 01:05:20,820
having a blockchain that updates
every three seconds was

1022
01:05:20,820 --> 01:05:23,130
butylene. That's a very big

1023
01:05:24,300 --> 01:05:27,780
problem. We need some sexy
blockchain that talk next. No,

1024
01:05:27,780 --> 01:05:29,010
yeah, totally.

1025
01:05:30,060 --> 01:05:33,630
So anyway, that's, that's pod
being the front end is almost

1026
01:05:33,630 --> 01:05:36,510
written, I get, I get the
queueing part of it finished

1027
01:05:36,510 --> 01:05:37,230
last night.

1028
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:41,430
Like I said, All this is in
close, you know, finished

1029
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:47,220
until the testing starts. But
it's working well. And

1030
01:05:48,420 --> 01:05:52,920
then the next the next step will
be when Brian feels like his

1031
01:05:53,070 --> 01:05:55,890
watcher and his like his when
his Python scripts are finished,

1032
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,650
and feels like they're in good
shape, we'll just start doing

1033
01:05:58,650 --> 01:06:02,190
some testing. And then I really
would like to get Tom on board.

1034
01:06:02,190 --> 01:06:04,650
If he's willing, I'm going to
talk to him privately about it,

1035
01:06:04,890 --> 01:06:09,630
to just send an extra paying an
extra GET request to the end, so

1036
01:06:09,630 --> 01:06:13,500
that we can test it and see if
we can handle volume.

1037
01:06:14,610 --> 01:06:19,200
And then eventually, how do
independent spirits update will?

1038
01:06:19,260 --> 01:06:23,310
Do I have to request permission
to do this? Yeah, so it's going

1039
01:06:23,310 --> 01:06:26,880
to be it's going to be a
registration process. This is

1040
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,420
not technically open, you're
gonna there will be a

1041
01:06:30,420 --> 01:06:35,550
registration page that that will
be there. So that you can

1042
01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:38,100
register now, as a big hosting
companies.

1043
01:06:39,150 --> 01:06:42,390
We will, you know, I'll give
them we just need to be

1044
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:47,250
contacted. And I'll put keys in
for them. And that that's

1045
01:06:47,250 --> 01:06:48,330
something we can handle.

1046
01:06:49,980 --> 01:06:52,620
You know, sort of all in how
about new shows a new show that

1047
01:06:52,620 --> 01:06:55,380
works the same way? Well, it
worked through the same API, it

1048
01:06:55,380 --> 01:06:58,470
would work the same thing.
Basically all all the pod pink

1049
01:06:58,500 --> 01:07:02,490
cloud cares about is a URL,
right? It doesn't care. If it

1050
01:07:02,490 --> 01:07:05,040
doesn't see it, if it's new,
then it will aggregate it.

1051
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,040
Right? If you if you're watching
the blockchain, and you see a

1052
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,430
URL that you did not exist in
your directory, it's new. Put it

1053
01:07:11,430 --> 01:07:16,530
in. Right. Cool. So you get new
everybody gets new feeds, and

1054
01:07:16,530 --> 01:07:20,970
feed updates. instantly. It's
beautiful. It's instant. It's

1055
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:25,470
beautiful. I love it. And so and
we will decentralize it what to

1056
01:07:25,500 --> 01:07:28,350
don't want to be the only one
running it will have, you know,

1057
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,250
two or two or three. Yeah. It
doesn't matter how you get it

1058
01:07:32,250 --> 01:07:34,260
into the blockchain as long as
you get into the blockchain.

1059
01:07:34,740 --> 01:07:36,870
Yeah, that's right. Fantastic.

1060
01:07:38,370 --> 01:07:42,030
So that, so that's that. So
that's one. That's one thing

1061
01:07:42,030 --> 01:07:46,080
we're working on. Eric's working
on. All the management stuff.

1062
01:07:47,340 --> 01:07:50,340
Now, excuse me, I'm sorry, the
image server? Yeah. How's that?

1063
01:07:50,370 --> 01:07:53,790
Yeah, this is I'm glad that that
he picked that up, because this

1064
01:07:53,790 --> 01:07:58,560
is this is a big one. Yeah. So
he's trying he's, he's hunting

1065
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:02,100
down a bug. There's some
slowness with it. And he said

1066
01:08:02,100 --> 01:08:04,560
that there's, there's a father
of three, this comes from

1067
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:08,310
somewhere with the, with the
hosting platform that he's using

1068
01:08:08,310 --> 01:08:13,350
that he can't figure out IBO
threes means Oh, gosh, that's a

1069
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,020
it's some form of internal
server error. I don't remember

1070
01:08:16,020 --> 01:08:20,310
what that is a server error. I
think you're right. He said it's

1071
01:08:20,310 --> 01:08:22,470
intermittent. And he's not sure
where it's coming from. It may

1072
01:08:22,470 --> 01:08:25,710
be coming from the object
storage. But he's got he's got

1073
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:28,860
we got like help.

1074
01:08:30,060 --> 01:08:35,370
Service unavailable. Okay. So
he's got, he's got a HelpDesk

1075
01:08:35,370 --> 01:08:38,280
ticket and with the, with the
host is use and to try to figure

1076
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,550
out where that's coming from
and, and figure that out. Once

1077
01:08:41,850 --> 01:08:47,310
he said that once he gets that
solved, and then gets about, he

1078
01:08:47,310 --> 01:08:52,860
wants about half a million feeds
minimum, to be the most popular

1079
01:08:52,860 --> 01:08:55,950
phase to be to be cashed. And
then we'll roll it over into

1080
01:08:55,950 --> 01:08:59,640
the.org. And make it make it
love everything I see the 503

1081
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,240
service unavailable error is an
HTTP status code. That means the

1082
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:06,720
website servers simply not
available. Most of the time it

1083
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,480
occurs because the server's too
busy, or because their

1084
01:09:09,480 --> 01:09:13,080
maintenance maintenance is being
performed on it maintenance.

1085
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,820
He said that it's unsettling. He
says something's wrong

1086
01:09:17,820 --> 01:09:20,220
somewhere. So he's going to he's
finding out from them what's

1087
01:09:20,220 --> 01:09:22,230
going on. But that's going to be
great. And,

1088
01:09:23,340 --> 01:09:24,030
and with all of

1089
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:28,470
your caching knowledge, that
will be I guess, really

1090
01:09:28,470 --> 01:09:33,420
effective for app developers to
use that. Yeah, hope so. It just

1091
01:09:33,420 --> 01:09:37,290
needs to be fast. Yeah, as long
as it's fast. And that will

1092
01:09:37,290 --> 01:09:40,020
throw it behind. CloudFlare.
When he's done Ryan in cash,

1093
01:09:40,020 --> 01:09:40,440
you're good.

1094
01:09:41,790 --> 01:09:45,630
Then there's the namespace. The
phase phase three, the namespace

1095
01:09:45,630 --> 01:09:52,680
we've Hold on. And now it's time
for some hot namespace. Oh,

1096
01:09:52,710 --> 01:09:57,780
what's your favorite tag today?
You know, I've been on Twitter

1097
01:09:57,810 --> 01:09:59,970
way too much. I've seen it. I've

1098
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,840
Seeing you man, as podcast index
to I'm like, look at data Oh

1099
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:08,100
man, he's like kicking up a
storm. Which I hate Twitter. Oh

1100
01:10:08,100 --> 01:10:11,610
my God, I hate it. But I'm, I'm
rolling around in the muck for

1101
01:10:11,610 --> 01:10:12,090
you people.

1102
01:10:13,650 --> 01:10:18,810
So one of the things that, you
know, like these posts will say

1103
01:10:18,810 --> 01:10:19,710
things like,

1104
01:10:21,090 --> 01:10:23,820
what's your favorite podcast
today to have these little pithy

1105
01:10:23,820 --> 01:10:25,980
questions to try to get
engagement, right, you know,

1106
01:10:25,980 --> 01:10:28,980
with people on Twitter is one of
the things that pod chaser

1107
01:10:29,430 --> 01:10:32,760
tweeted out the other day was
describe your podcast in the

1108
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,030
sexiest way possible. And I was
like, I don't even want to enter

1109
01:10:36,030 --> 01:10:39,780
this competition. We, I mean,
nobody has stands a chance. And

1110
01:10:39,780 --> 01:10:44,370
then we get hot names based off.
We are the sexiest damn podcast.

1111
01:10:44,370 --> 01:10:48,780
Come on. Like, give me a break.
As you wanted to be fair to all

1112
01:10:48,780 --> 01:10:53,400
the other. Yes. We're clearly is
a shill. Yeah.

1113
01:10:54,510 --> 01:10:59,100
So the namespace we're in phase
three, we've got to finalize the

1114
01:10:59,100 --> 01:11:00,420
trailer tag the other day.

1115
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,620
That is not formalized. It's not
in the official spec yet. But it

1116
01:11:04,620 --> 01:11:08,400
should be. It's stable. Now it's
not it's not going to change.

1117
01:11:09,420 --> 01:11:12,480
So that's already it's pretty
much baked. The

1118
01:11:13,890 --> 01:11:19,530
what's the license tag? Got a
couple of questions around the

1119
01:11:19,530 --> 01:11:24,210
formatting of the of the slug
list. That otherwise, that was

1120
01:11:24,210 --> 01:11:26,340
pretty much bait. You know what
I'm so happy about.

1121
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:32,340
Even though it's apparently not
podcasting, 2.0 the chapters is

1122
01:11:32,340 --> 01:11:36,060
the hook the chapters is
bringing everybody in the chat

1123
01:11:36,060 --> 01:11:39,690
what is successful, and that was
born out of collaboration.

1124
01:11:40,620 --> 01:11:44,640
Someone just the other day said,
Hey, I just saw like the images

1125
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:48,720
change on my car. while I'm
driving. I saw you were talking.

1126
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,270
I wasn't even listening. No
agenda. He says, and I saw these

1127
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:55,380
images change. He said, is that
podcasting? 2.0. And I think

1128
01:11:55,380 --> 01:11:56,760
he's using

1129
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,620
pod as podcast addict two
chapters. Yeah.

1130
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:06,900
Yeah. It's like that. That's
really incredible. I said, yes,

1131
01:12:07,290 --> 01:12:11,790
it really is. And this was born
out of an approps, by the way to

1132
01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:15,210
David Norman, for hyper catcher,
I mean, he just says

1133
01:12:15,210 --> 01:12:19,530
functionality of the idea of
chapters that can be created by

1134
01:12:19,530 --> 01:12:23,610
someone else, led to me being
lazy and recruiting drab.

1135
01:12:24,900 --> 01:12:28,440
A sudden, you know, we've got a
great feature that everybody

1136
01:12:28,440 --> 01:12:33,060
likes to use. And, and this,
this one feature, I think, by

1137
01:12:33,060 --> 01:12:37,710
itself will draw people to the
to the new podcast apps, thank

1138
01:12:37,710 --> 01:12:39,630
God for laziness, there's so
some of the greatest

1139
01:12:41,670 --> 01:12:45,780
laziness. Now, the back end
system that Eric is building is

1140
01:12:45,780 --> 01:12:46,860
also quite cool.

1141
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:53,040
I mean, it's gonna be a place
for you to get to kind of look

1142
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:58,980
inside the database in on one
hand, but also, there'll be some

1143
01:12:58,980 --> 01:13:01,890
statistics, I think that we'll
be offering. I mean, do you do

1144
01:13:01,890 --> 01:13:06,390
you have a handle on? What is he
building in there? I was a

1145
01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:09,840
building, I feel like he pulls
the curtain back every now and

1146
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,120
then I get no idea what I'm
looking at.

1147
01:13:13,290 --> 01:13:17,820
I think. So he is, for one
thing, he's building an on ramp.

1148
01:13:18,030 --> 01:13:21,330
Yeah. And that's one thing that
we need more of the open world

1149
01:13:21,330 --> 01:13:25,590
of podcasting just needs, in
general needs more on ramps, and

1150
01:13:25,590 --> 01:13:30,090
that you're on ramp, you know,
for most people is going to be

1151
01:13:30,090 --> 01:13:35,730
your hosts your hosting company.
But then it doesn't have to be

1152
01:13:35,820 --> 01:13:39,930
because your feed can can live
at the host can your feed can

1153
01:13:39,930 --> 01:13:45,780
live at captivate that then you
can on ramp it into the

1154
01:13:45,780 --> 01:13:49,110
ecosystem from somewhere else,
right? Like, if you realize that

1155
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:53,070
you didn't, oh, I don't exist
over here in the podcast index.

1156
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:56,880
Well, you can, you know, on wrap
it there. And then there's other

1157
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,640
people that there's people that
use our directories, and then

1158
01:13:59,670 --> 01:14:03,900
you've, you're in the system
now. So you cannot we what we

1159
01:14:03,900 --> 01:14:07,230
need in general within the
podcasting open world is, is

1160
01:14:07,230 --> 01:14:09,690
really more on ramps. And so
that's one of the things he's,

1161
01:14:10,110 --> 01:14:12,690
he's building as an as an on
ramp where people can put the

1162
01:14:12,690 --> 01:14:15,750
thing, you know, put their feet
in manage it. And when I say

1163
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:16,860
manage, it means like,

1164
01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:22,620
say, the put a value block in
for the for the API,

1165
01:14:23,790 --> 01:14:26,340
you know, that kind of thing.
Yeah, manager splits.

1166
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:28,650
I say

1167
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:34,290
no, that, that's, that's half of
it. The other half is

1168
01:14:35,490 --> 01:14:41,370
stats from the standpoint of
like, meal splits and you know,

1169
01:14:41,610 --> 01:14:45,570
SATs and all that kind of stuff.
He He's really working on a he's

1170
01:14:45,570 --> 01:14:49,170
trying to bake making a full
meal, sort of a full system

1171
01:14:49,650 --> 01:14:53,490
where where you can manage your
value block and and then keep

1172
01:14:53,490 --> 01:14:54,120
track of,

1173
01:14:55,500 --> 01:14:58,470
you know, keep track of all
that. Right now, the most

1174
01:14:58,470 --> 01:15:00,000
important thing as you said, is
the onboard

1175
01:15:00,539 --> 01:15:04,079
How are we with Ellen pay with
making something easy there?

1176
01:15:04,079 --> 01:15:06,989
Because it's such a such an
elegant solution such It feels

1177
01:15:06,989 --> 01:15:12,839
so stable. And we don't really
have a perfect way to onboard

1178
01:15:12,839 --> 01:15:16,229
podcasters into that, or even,
right, honestly,

1179
01:15:17,580 --> 01:15:21,930
podcast listeners unless you do
what pod friend has done that

1180
01:15:21,930 --> 01:15:25,470
Martin is maintaining, you know,
your keys and your account,

1181
01:15:25,470 --> 01:15:28,050
which I've you know, that's a
choice as long as everyone knows

1182
01:15:28,050 --> 01:15:28,260
it.

1183
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:32,310
Is the value blog podcasting?
2.0.

1184
01:15:33,570 --> 01:15:36,570
Because I mean, chapters is not.
So I mean, it's

1185
01:15:37,980 --> 01:15:39,690
for a second there. I'm like,
What is

1186
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:44,400
he Hi, all of a sudden, yes, I
gotcha. I'm sorry. Let's do the

1187
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,790
entire weeks go by I don't think
about stuff. Leo says Believe

1188
01:15:47,790 --> 01:15:47,940
me.

1189
01:15:50,100 --> 01:15:53,370
Yeah, and I have dropped the
ball on that. And I say drop the

1190
01:15:53,370 --> 01:15:56,670
ball. But it's just been so
busy. I haven't been able to get

1191
01:15:56,670 --> 01:16:01,410
back to, to working with Tim.
And I think

1192
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,540
I really, we're gonna have to
have things on board before we

1193
01:16:06,540 --> 01:16:11,160
can do it anyway. Because they
are we're still waiting for them

1194
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:13,770
to implement the change. Right?
Maybe a ping to them would be a

1195
01:16:13,770 --> 01:16:17,190
good idea. Yeah, I think because
they're holding us up. I mean, I

1196
01:16:17,190 --> 01:16:21,870
understand that. It's a It's a
family sitch. Yeah. Which is

1197
01:16:22,050 --> 01:16:24,960
totally cool. It's just yeah,
now it's been two weeks.

1198
01:16:25,980 --> 01:16:29,970
We, we need a we need from them.
It's just the TLV record to be

1199
01:16:29,970 --> 01:16:33,810
supported. Right. So that the
custom record and custom value

1200
01:16:33,870 --> 01:16:39,570
or custom key and custom value
can, can go correctly. to, to

1201
01:16:39,570 --> 01:16:41,880
route everything to to LMP.

1202
01:16:42,990 --> 01:16:45,720
As long as as long as they
support that if they pop up

1203
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:50,340
them, then we can really start
using lm pay wallets for

1204
01:16:50,340 --> 01:16:54,360
creators which would simplify oh
my god things on that side.

1205
01:16:55,590 --> 01:17:01,260
And congratulations to to
breeze, new release for them

1206
01:17:01,290 --> 01:17:05,160
with now they have shared this
podcast functionality. Yeah,

1207
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:07,590
that was um, something I've been
looking forward to. Yeah, I just

1208
01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:09,420
don't work at the episode
levels. Well,

1209
01:17:10,470 --> 01:17:13,920
I don't know. I don't think I
don't think it does. I haven't

1210
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,250
seen release yet. Say hey,
here's the podcast and it takes

1211
01:17:17,250 --> 01:17:19,560
you right into breeze right that
that was that's the general

1212
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:22,470
idea. Yeah, cuz what I've been
wanting to do is I've been

1213
01:17:22,470 --> 01:17:27,060
trying on the Twitter account to
highlight podcasts that have

1214
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:27,990
streaming

1215
01:17:29,220 --> 01:17:32,430
value blogs, just to let people
know, because there's a lot of

1216
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,610
there's a lot. I mean, there's
Gosh, almost 200 podcasts now

1217
01:17:35,610 --> 01:17:40,440
that do streaming stats. And
that's important for people to

1218
01:17:40,440 --> 01:17:43,290
know, like, there's a couple of
them that I'm actually not

1219
01:17:43,650 --> 01:17:47,580
mentioning public because I
don't know if they're on if the

1220
01:17:47,580 --> 01:17:51,360
creator wants to announce that
on the show first. I don't know.

1221
01:17:51,570 --> 01:17:53,760
Anyways, I've been trying to
highlight some of those I would

1222
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:58,470
really love to be able to deep
link into different apps. Yes,

1223
01:17:58,530 --> 01:18:03,060
yes. Yeah. So that you can sort
of like expose the public to

1224
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:07,410
different shows and different
apps at the same time. We have

1225
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,260
pod verse coming out this
weekend with a new version which

1226
01:18:10,260 --> 01:18:13,410
includes value for value very
streaming payments very excited

1227
01:18:13,410 --> 01:18:16,830
about that that's gonna be a
cool cool app

1228
01:18:18,030 --> 01:18:24,660
big big up to Curio caster for
jumping in and making video work

1229
01:18:25,770 --> 01:18:26,730
with the

1230
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:32,280
with the kind of the the ad hoc
experiment we set up now with

1231
01:18:32,310 --> 01:18:39,120
the NA tube, which has also been
ignited with the mark Hall and

1232
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:40,230
his documentary

1233
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,220
and it seems like that's going
to come together they're going

1234
01:18:44,220 --> 01:18:48,690
to have a way to have a
documentary pop up with

1235
01:18:48,690 --> 01:18:51,060
reasonable you know streaming
video that doesn't break the

1236
01:18:51,060 --> 01:18:55,830
bank and streaming sets that go
right back and Mark is he's

1237
01:18:55,830 --> 01:18:58,830
quite a force in the in the
documentary world and he says,

1238
01:18:58,830 --> 01:19:01,620
you know, we are dying out here
we can't get on the streaming

1239
01:19:01,620 --> 01:19:04,860
apps if we're on there, we get
no money almost or you know, the

1240
01:19:04,860 --> 01:19:09,870
terms are stupid. It's It's a
mess. And you know, and people

1241
01:19:09,870 --> 01:19:12,780
are desperate to get anything
for the documentaries and say,

1242
01:19:12,780 --> 01:19:16,770
well, let's give it a shot and
Alex and Martin and everyone's

1243
01:19:16,770 --> 01:19:19,650
jumping in on that I love it.
And then for Curio caster to

1244
01:19:19,650 --> 01:19:23,970
just say, oh, by the way, hold
my beer video works. Very cool.

1245
01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:29,670
I'm waiting on somebody to just
fork their current app and call

1246
01:19:29,670 --> 01:19:34,860
it dog in documentary to or
whatever I never I, I mean,

1247
01:19:34,860 --> 01:19:37,980
obviously, that's the dream. But
also I was talking with with

1248
01:19:37,980 --> 01:19:39,450
Mark about that I said, you
know,

1249
01:19:41,070 --> 01:19:44,430
is that really I mean, it may be
the way to go, but at the same

1250
01:19:44,430 --> 01:19:47,850
time, where's all the action?
You know, it's like if I already

1251
01:19:47,850 --> 01:19:51,900
have pod friend over I already
have breeze, and then you know,

1252
01:19:51,900 --> 01:19:56,040
our pod verse. And then now
just, you can also watch a

1253
01:19:56,040 --> 01:20:00,000
documentary seems easier than
getting

1254
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,340
People to load another app.

1255
01:20:03,659 --> 01:20:07,079
I mean, maybe Yeah, I agree with
that. And I also think that a

1256
01:20:07,079 --> 01:20:10,859
plus to meet to music same
thing. Yeah, exactly. Make an

1257
01:20:10,859 --> 01:20:16,439
album, an RSS feed. Well, that's
coming. I got a note from a

1258
01:20:16,649 --> 01:20:19,559
professional musician. He says
we're making we're making an

1259
01:20:19,559 --> 01:20:23,699
album specifically for
podcasting. 2.0. And then every

1260
01:20:23,699 --> 01:20:27,659
track will be it will be an
episode. They want value for

1261
01:20:27,659 --> 01:20:32,369
value. I think they I think they
already have a node. So yeah,

1262
01:20:32,369 --> 01:20:34,769
this is happening. This is
happening. Oh, I'm geeking out

1263
01:20:34,769 --> 01:20:37,559
about that. Because I love that
lightning. That lightning dot

1264
01:20:37,559 --> 01:20:43,079
store is fantastic. It's good
music man. And I'm not boost

1265
01:20:43,079 --> 01:20:46,289
that a lot. I've noticed
something about me. I will spend

1266
01:20:46,289 --> 01:20:51,539
a lot of money on on podcasts. I
didn't know but I know. I know.

1267
01:20:51,569 --> 01:20:56,399
It's it's the same with me. And
I just announced spending 25 $30

1268
01:20:56,429 --> 01:21:00,269
a week. Oh, I'm spending that a
week. Now Really? Well, boosting

1269
01:21:00,269 --> 01:21:03,479
like a madman based on the
amount of times I have to

1270
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:06,149
refill. here's here's the
secret. Here's the secret

1271
01:21:06,149 --> 01:21:09,209
whenever whenever you talk about
podcasting 2.0 or mentioned my

1272
01:21:09,209 --> 01:21:12,029
name specifically boosts happen?
Yeah.

1273
01:21:13,380 --> 01:21:15,450
Like you're trying to tell gene
you want some boost man talk

1274
01:21:15,450 --> 01:21:16,950
about me more often. You
mentioned mining.

1275
01:21:19,470 --> 01:21:24,330
Boost, no problem. It's like
those, those old SEO crap they

1276
01:21:24,330 --> 01:21:27,000
were they were just put put the
search term like 1000 times and

1277
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:28,410
white text on a white
background.

1278
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:30,840
Every

1279
01:21:31,860 --> 01:21:33,120
day just says Adam Curry.

1280
01:21:35,430 --> 01:21:37,800
A lot of work is going into this
project.

1281
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,080
We held up very nicely with a
lot of new developers coming in

1282
01:21:43,590 --> 01:21:48,660
websites that that previously
use the the iTunes index and

1283
01:21:48,660 --> 01:21:49,350
API.

1284
01:21:50,820 --> 01:21:54,300
I'd like to fortify a little bit
more, we're doing okay,

1285
01:21:54,330 --> 01:21:57,900
everything is running. Dave and
I and Eric, we take no salaries.

1286
01:21:57,900 --> 01:22:00,480
This is to keep everything
running. We do hope to make

1287
01:22:00,480 --> 01:22:03,480
money off of the streaming
satoshis. And I think when when

1288
01:22:03,480 --> 01:22:06,510
we when everyone else is
winning, too. So that's the

1289
01:22:06,510 --> 01:22:10,530
idea. But we would like to have
a little more buffer for the

1290
01:22:10,530 --> 01:22:14,460
next wave of whatever's coming.
Because I think people are going

1291
01:22:14,460 --> 01:22:18,420
to come. This is the mistake
that Twitter and Facebook and

1292
01:22:18,420 --> 01:22:22,200
other social media networks have
made like Well, we're the kings

1293
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:25,560
and you know, screw you. And
we're going to be platform a

1294
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:29,580
certain group of people or
groups of people. And I have not

1295
01:22:29,580 --> 01:22:33,030
been this delighted with my
mastodon, which is federated.

1296
01:22:34,380 --> 01:22:38,460
It not been as delighted ever it
is so enjoyable.

1297
01:22:39,570 --> 01:22:42,930
Because I'm getting good content
content that I'm interested in.

1298
01:22:43,170 --> 01:22:46,320
And it's it's almost just bots,
that's pushing it through from

1299
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,080
Twitter. But it's completely
independent. I don't have to

1300
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,950
worry about what I say that also
there's no algorithm is going to

1301
01:22:52,950 --> 01:22:55,980
sit there and try and beat me up
and make me mad.

1302
01:22:57,180 --> 01:23:01,530
And eventually this will happen
with the big companies that will

1303
01:23:01,530 --> 01:23:05,280
happen with will happen with
Twitter and with Facebook. I

1304
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,730
mean, these big companies,
strangely enough,

1305
01:23:09,810 --> 01:23:13,260
do go away after a time listen
to this clip. Verizon is on the

1306
01:23:13,260 --> 01:23:16,470
verge of signing a deal to sell
Yahoo and AOL and agreement

1307
01:23:16,470 --> 01:23:19,170
could be announced today for the
private equity firm Apollo

1308
01:23:19,170 --> 01:23:24,060
Global Management to buy Verizon
media arm the price could hit $5

1309
01:23:24,090 --> 01:23:31,320
billion. $5 billion is pathetic
for AOL and Yahoo. Which, which

1310
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:31,860
includes

1311
01:23:34,170 --> 01:23:37,200
Arianna, what's her name,
Huffington Post, all of that

1312
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:42,360
stuff is in there, too. He's my
space went away. geo cities went

1313
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:45,810
away. Alta Vista was the search
engine. And

1314
01:23:47,100 --> 01:23:51,240
Netscape disappeared. Netscape
disappeared.

1315
01:23:52,350 --> 01:23:54,990
I mean, that was that was the
biggest IPO in history. When

1316
01:23:54,990 --> 01:23:58,170
that happened. Everybody was
using Netscape stuff does go

1317
01:23:58,170 --> 01:23:58,680
away.

1318
01:24:00,090 --> 01:24:03,720
What was that search engine that
had the look like a clipper

1319
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:07,080
ship? And that was the logo.
That wasn't Alta Vista. I

1320
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:10,290
thought that was Alta Vista. Oh,
no, I know what I'm thinking of.

1321
01:24:11,010 --> 01:24:12,030
Austin lavista.

1322
01:24:13,980 --> 01:24:20,730
course Of course. Yeah. So my
point is, we'll get an influx of

1323
01:24:21,330 --> 01:24:24,090
apps are going to get popular,
or someone's going to go viral

1324
01:24:24,090 --> 01:24:27,300
on something and we're going to
need to be fortified. So we'd

1325
01:24:27,300 --> 01:24:29,880
love to have you support the
show this and not just the show,

1326
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:33,270
but the entire project. And by
the way, Apple should consider

1327
01:24:33,270 --> 01:24:36,450
doing a board meeting as a
podcast. It's kind of fun, and

1328
01:24:36,450 --> 01:24:37,740
it's kind of transparent.

1329
01:24:39,210 --> 01:24:42,150
Please go to podcast index.org
you can support us through

1330
01:24:42,150 --> 01:24:44,970
PayPal with your caique bucks
course you can always boost this

1331
01:24:44,970 --> 01:24:49,560
show. It really helps. It's
that's no joke. I mean that I I

1332
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:53,310
in fact that I prefer seeing a
whole bunch of boosts. So people

1333
01:24:53,310 --> 01:24:57,570
are using that methodology. Just
to get used to it and have fun

1334
01:24:57,570 --> 01:25:00,000
with it and be creative and and

1335
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:04,350
To help you move that system
forward, but regardless, any

1336
01:25:04,350 --> 01:25:07,050
type of support you can give,
and a lot of our developers are

1337
01:25:07,050 --> 01:25:09,450
doing it just by bringing their
time and their talent. You know,

1338
01:25:09,450 --> 01:25:12,510
it's the three T's the time,
talent treasure. We do want to

1339
01:25:12,510 --> 01:25:15,480
thank the people who've
supported us in the past week

1340
01:25:15,630 --> 01:25:16,680
with their donations.

1341
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:21,060
We still grant the ones that we
ran, we know

1342
01:25:22,170 --> 01:25:26,490
we have our monthly monthly
donors, which I've listed.

1343
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:29,760
As far as non monthly donor
single donations, we have a

1344
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:30,930
grand total of one.

1345
01:25:32,580 --> 01:25:34,710
Okay. All right.

1346
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:40,650
William, William Miller gave us
$20 Well, we appreciate that,

1347
01:25:40,650 --> 01:25:43,530
William, in the morning,
gentlemen, go podcasting.

1348
01:25:48,510 --> 01:25:52,560
Thank you very much, William.
That is appreciated. Our monthly

1349
01:25:52,590 --> 01:25:57,810
donors that hit this week are
Scott. Scott Jalbert. $12. Mark

1350
01:25:57,810 --> 01:26:04,920
Graham. $1. Joseph maraca $5.
David made us $10 Jeremy new $5.

1351
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:09,540
Kevin Rose $25. And Greg Thomas
$5. Thank you guys. We

1352
01:26:09,540 --> 01:26:10,920
appreciate it very much.

1353
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,490
And I will say that

1354
01:26:16,410 --> 01:26:22,620
sad puppy. Yeah. It's awfully
disheartening. A little bit to

1355
01:26:22,620 --> 01:26:25,800
see that Yeah, but we do. Do we
want to mention the T shirt?

1356
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:31,740
Yes, please do? Yes. Great idea.
This is. Here's how this goes.

1357
01:26:32,580 --> 01:26:37,890
We have a signal channel that
Eric, Dave and I talk on. And

1358
01:26:38,070 --> 01:26:42,960
Dave's like, I want this as as
something for the donors. And

1359
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:45,270
Eric imedia is like, Okay, I've
got the fulfillment. I know

1360
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:47,820
where to get them done. What
what Pantone color do you want?

1361
01:26:49,500 --> 01:26:53,910
Go ahead and tell me when your
idea. Yeah, it's literally like

1362
01:26:53,910 --> 01:26:55,890
within 30 seconds. I got a guy
for that.

1363
01:26:58,590 --> 01:27:03,180
Yeah, so it's what we said is
$100. Is that what we decided? I

1364
01:27:03,180 --> 01:27:05,760
think that we did arbitrary i
think i think that's a good.

1365
01:27:06,060 --> 01:27:09,300
Yeah, I think it's a good. Okay.
So I think if anybody donates

1366
01:27:09,330 --> 01:27:13,800
$100 to the show, we're gonna
give, we're going to send you a

1367
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:17,100
podcasting 2.0 t shirt. So
that's, that's basically the

1368
01:27:17,100 --> 01:27:20,160
thing. And that's, that's 100
bucks, you know, over over time

1369
01:27:20,190 --> 01:27:23,670
gets aggravated, right? It's not
got to be 101 go now, it's

1370
01:27:23,670 --> 01:27:27,090
aggregate. Yeah, please keep up
with your own accounting. I

1371
01:27:27,090 --> 01:27:30,750
don't wanna I don't want to do
that. Wait, isn't Eric building

1372
01:27:30,750 --> 01:27:33,240
a back end system for that? So
we can account for that and you

1373
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:34,350
can put in your information?

1374
01:27:38,490 --> 01:27:41,880
Seriously, that is that is, that
is the thing. That is a great

1375
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:44,550
service that I know, he's also
working on. You know, he's also

1376
01:27:44,550 --> 01:27:47,070
thinking about how can we do
these different donation levels,

1377
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,490
once we have the TLV records
worked out and we and people can

1378
01:27:50,490 --> 01:27:54,420
identify themselves if they want
to? These are all fantastic

1379
01:27:54,420 --> 01:27:57,660
things. And Eric does have his
head deep in that. God, it's a

1380
01:27:57,660 --> 01:28:01,230
shame. It's a shame that this
project is only about conspiracy

1381
01:28:01,230 --> 01:28:04,680
theories. Otherwise, there's
just so many cool things

1382
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:06,330
happening. Like

1383
01:28:07,440 --> 01:28:11,040
the the the T shirts are gonna
have the, the beautiful

1384
01:28:11,070 --> 01:28:14,790
podcasting 2.0 certified badge
from Benjamin Bellamy on it.

1385
01:28:14,910 --> 01:28:17,670
Yes. So they will be nice, great
for your girlfriend to

1386
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:22,290
girlfriends and wives love it.
It's the chicks dig it, man.

1387
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:27,150
That's your boyfriend to be to
be.

1388
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:30,990
That was that was a mistake. I

1389
01:28:32,430 --> 01:28:33,300
didn't mean to do that.

1390
01:28:34,620 --> 01:28:36,570
Yes, your partner. Let's put it
that way.

1391
01:28:38,550 --> 01:28:39,000
That's,

1392
01:28:40,410 --> 01:28:43,620
that's, that's all. That's all
we got right now. Yeah, donation

1393
01:28:43,620 --> 01:28:47,100
sides. Done. Well, thank you all
very much podcast index.org. We

1394
01:28:47,100 --> 01:28:50,730
ask for your time, your talent,
your treasure. Whatever you can

1395
01:28:50,730 --> 01:28:54,510
do, however, you can support us,
hey, start an app, it's easy.

1396
01:28:57,420 --> 01:28:59,700
But from there, you can you can
obviously sign up as a

1397
01:28:59,700 --> 01:29:03,330
developer, you can find it if
you're a podcaster. And you

1398
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:07,290
would like to receive streaming
value for value payments in any

1399
01:29:07,290 --> 01:29:10,410
of our apps that are already
supported. Find yourself on

1400
01:29:10,410 --> 01:29:13,530
podcast index.org hit the
lightning bolt and start the

1401
01:29:13,530 --> 01:29:17,370
process and ends I'll take you
through and there'll be some

1402
01:29:17,370 --> 01:29:21,390
choices you can make and that
process will only get better as

1403
01:29:21,390 --> 01:29:24,570
we bring it into the realm of
genes mom

1404
01:29:25,710 --> 01:29:30,120
takes a technical term now it's
a technical term, but is it the

1405
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:33,540
GM doesn't have doesn't have GM
functionality?

1406
01:29:34,890 --> 01:29:39,120
Is what here's the fountains of
Wayne. I can't get that song out

1407
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:43,110
of my head every time I hear
jeans mom. Jeans mom has got it

1408
01:29:43,110 --> 01:29:46,980
going in that fountains of wine.
Thanks. So thanks, Stacy's mom.

1409
01:29:48,390 --> 01:29:53,340
Oh, now at now you've confused
me. Yeah. Well, that that may

1410
01:29:53,340 --> 01:29:56,580
have been was that after your
your time at MTV? Or was that

1411
01:29:56,580 --> 01:29:59,940
during that? You know, I think I
may have bitten

1412
01:30:00,299 --> 01:30:07,259
Stacy's mom was like, maybe late
90s 98. Y'all know? That was way

1413
01:30:07,259 --> 01:30:09,539
after my time at Mt. No, wait,
okay, no.

1414
01:30:10,860 --> 01:30:19,500
I think I left in 94 or at least
full time. 94 I think 90 for the

1415
01:30:19,500 --> 01:30:22,740
year I graduated high school.
Hey, once you go fuck yourself,

1416
01:30:22,740 --> 01:30:24,960
Dave. Didn't need to hear that.

1417
01:30:28,110 --> 01:30:30,390
Thanks. I love you, too. Thanks,
bro.

1418
01:30:32,100 --> 01:30:34,200
All right, let me just check my
list. See if there was anything

1419
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:38,100
else. I mean, I'm sure there's a
ton of stuff that that we could

1420
01:30:38,100 --> 01:30:41,610
be talking about. Oh, yeah, just
one other thing, if you're

1421
01:30:41,970 --> 01:30:43,950
another thing that we're kind of
doing as a service, and I'm

1422
01:30:43,950 --> 01:30:47,490
learning a lot more about
channels and size, and there's

1423
01:30:47,490 --> 01:30:51,240
anchor channels, and all kinds
of stuff. You know, if you're,

1424
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:54,870
if you're setting up your own
node, and you need a, or just,

1425
01:30:54,900 --> 01:30:57,870
if you're setting up your own
node, let me know, we're trying

1426
01:30:57,870 --> 01:31:00,480
to provide as much routing as
possible to everybody to make

1427
01:31:00,480 --> 01:31:03,030
sure that you know, at least you
can get something flowing and

1428
01:31:03,030 --> 01:31:06,600
going. And now that I'm learning
more about the channels, I see

1429
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:10,050
the need to open up fewer but
bigger ones, and help people

1430
01:31:10,050 --> 01:31:12,810
understand how they can keep the
channel balanced from their

1431
01:31:12,810 --> 01:31:18,540
side. So I'll be doing as much
hands on help and education of

1432
01:31:18,540 --> 01:31:21,540
that as possible. It's costly.
Yes, so many channels.

1433
01:31:22,740 --> 01:31:25,860
We got a lot of channels. Yeah,
we do. We, but what's

1434
01:31:25,860 --> 01:31:30,930
interesting is we put 15 $100 I
think I put 15 $100 in

1435
01:31:32,820 --> 01:31:37,590
it was like maybe it was maybe
1200, I can't remember exactly.

1436
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,710
And it's like, I'll just put
that in there. And we've never

1437
01:31:40,710 --> 01:31:41,670
had to add money.

1438
01:31:42,990 --> 01:31:47,550
And Bitcoin has gone up. Since
we started, which the money is

1439
01:31:47,550 --> 01:31:51,180
still kind of the same. And it
just kind of works out, I'm able

1440
01:31:51,180 --> 01:31:54,990
to kind of just buy this by the
seat of our pants, or open up

1441
01:31:54,990 --> 01:31:57,270
channels big enough that they
make sense.

1442
01:31:58,290 --> 01:32:00,630
But I'm going to be kind of
restructuring that because I

1443
01:32:00,630 --> 01:32:04,860
think some stuff is there's also
some some channels that are

1444
01:32:04,860 --> 01:32:07,470
happy to open to us. And then
you know, they're charging high

1445
01:32:07,470 --> 01:32:09,090
fees like Africa.

1446
01:32:10,140 --> 01:32:12,270
They're, you know, it's like,
and they'll get around

1447
01:32:12,270 --> 01:32:15,450
eventually, you know, it's like,
that's Yeah, I understand. But

1448
01:32:15,450 --> 01:32:18,540
we're not we don't need that
yet. If it's a dire situation

1449
01:32:18,540 --> 01:32:21,090
that we don't have any routing,
of course, you can make whatever

1450
01:32:21,090 --> 01:32:24,420
you want to make, and that's how
the network should function. But

1451
01:32:24,420 --> 01:32:27,120
I want to try and keep it as
easy as possible and as

1452
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:29,850
effective as possible for for
our network in this

1453
01:32:31,260 --> 01:32:33,150
you know, there's a there's a
lot of different schools of

1454
01:32:33,150 --> 01:32:35,460
thought. But personally, I feel

1455
01:32:36,750 --> 01:32:40,290
you know, trying to build our
own network, or own connections

1456
01:32:40,290 --> 01:32:43,650
and peering within the network
as close as possible is valid,

1457
01:32:43,890 --> 01:32:47,640
and is a smart thing to do. And,
and you know, and how the rest

1458
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:50,730
of the lightning network comes
on board. And how that works is

1459
01:32:50,730 --> 01:32:54,240
to be seen we don't we'd never
see all the private channels

1460
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:56,400
that are also running on the
lightning network and least

1461
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:57,270
we're doing them open

1462
01:32:58,500 --> 01:33:01,740
but but when when the AMP stuff
gets going we can do multipaths

1463
01:33:01,740 --> 01:33:04,740
all at once. I mean that'll be
awesome because that you see

1464
01:33:05,010 --> 01:33:07,650
sometimes you do a case and and
you see it just hunting for a

1465
01:33:07,650 --> 01:33:11,340
channel you know just over and
over is trying and with I think

1466
01:33:11,340 --> 01:33:14,640
the AMP stuff solves that if I'm
not if I'm understanding it prof

1467
01:33:14,910 --> 01:33:15,750
something will

1468
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:18,870
something will somewhere alright
Dave

1469
01:33:20,610 --> 01:33:24,060
good talking to you, brother. Me
it's always want to eat you want

1470
01:33:24,060 --> 01:33:28,140
to play? Oh, yeah, question call
in? Yeah, of course I do. Here

1471
01:33:28,140 --> 01:33:33,000
we go. Mr. temper Do you think
that the world government is

1472
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:37,110
perhaps cooperating with the
aliens and using mind altering

1473
01:33:37,110 --> 01:33:42,480
drugs, supercomputers, cathode
rays, sound emitters and other

1474
01:33:42,510 --> 01:33:45,870
existing technology to shape the
world views.

1475
01:33:47,670 --> 01:33:51,660
That's me, baby. That's you've
kept podcasting. 2.0 right where

1476
01:33:51,660 --> 01:33:55,050
it belongs and the conspiracy
theory. Perfect. Alright,

1477
01:33:55,050 --> 01:33:58,440
everybody, Dave, thanks, man.
had a great weekend. Everybody.

1478
01:33:58,950 --> 01:34:01,410
That's our board meeting. We'll
do it again next Friday. Until

1479
01:34:01,410 --> 01:34:03,690
then, have a great weekend. Take
it easy Bye bye.

1480
01:34:19,650 --> 01:34:24,450
You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0 visit podcast in

1481
01:34:24,450 --> 01:34:26,970
the.com. For more information

