2.0 for April 30 2021, Episode 35.
And yes,
just like hip hop or sometimes they come to me from Hello,
everybody, it's Friday once again time for the board meaning
of podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org it's the best time of
the week.
And the board room and board meeting is officially open. I'm
out of curry here in Austin, Texas in Alabama, the man who
more fields than any human being, ladies and gentlemen,
critical word.
dupe is the word.
Yes, you probably need to triple gate is because I've dropped all
my crap on the floor right there in your interest.
It has been, it has been a week of microphone rows all around
which, you know, when it rains, it pours same within, you know,
with software development, you know, you fix the bug 10 more
pop up. And so we fix some of Dave issue. I gotta tell you
about my microphone issue, though, right off the bat,
because you'll appreciate this. You know, I had a microphone
break about a week ago. And also if
you're on the hurry through 20, you get the same one I got
Right,
right. So I had the ra 320. That electro electro voice. And about
a week ago, all of a sudden it develops this buzz midway
through new no agenda and john and i spend half an hour trying
to figure out where it's coming from. I mean, I'm pulling
cables, I'm doing everything I can, we can't figure it out. I
wind up throwing a procaster mic on there, which you know, just
didn't quite You know, this is a whole different microphones we
finished the show Fine. Then I had then I bought a new 320 and
it worked fine. And then I was doing mo fax on Saturday and and
the bus popped in again. And now like holy crap, so now I'm
trying to and I'm tying my ears and what they used to be aware
hearing aids This is the most frustrating part is I can't
really you know, if I'm listening through headphones,
it's hard for me to determine I just I'm losing my ears, you
know, not my hearing. I'm losing that too. But also my ears.
Which is a sad
audio guy. Hmm. Like high pitch do you do you have hard time
with high frequencies now?
Oh, it's all high frequencies is gone is Oh, shit. Yeah, that's
all gone. So that's, that's what I need to crank up but have to
be careful because what I think may sound good. And that's what
happened with no agenda yesterday after I also
accidentally ran it through a processor the second time, so I
sounded like I was I had a metal straw up my butt. And that's
what I was talking through everything. And then of course,
people email me like, hey, sounds like shit. Thanks, man.
Twitter everywhere. Hey, just so you know, man, what's going on?
Did you forget to put some treble in or too much. So and I
appreciate it because everyone knows how much I care about the
sound but so like,
I have two mics now
that have broken with this buzzer until now. And last
night. I'm reading through these Twitter posts. And I'm just I
almost wanted to come up here and you know, and rip everything
apart. And let's and I'm gonna sleep on it. And I wake up this
morning. And I think and I said Tina, hold on a second. The
studio is above the kitchen. No, it's above the dining room. So
long story short, we find out that there's one light switch if
you put the dimmer in a certain spot in a certain spot. It's
right it's like within a half a half a centimeter distance on
the slide. Then that also in that bus pops up.
I'm going to blame LED lights for this crap
led its course it's led Of course you just pollution.
Yeah, if it was analog light bulbs, like it used to be, you
could dim that stuff all day long and it's fine. And now your
know your switch your little dimmer, sphere or circle or
whatever may sound like it was about to explode, but the light
itself wouldn't do a whole lot. Now you've got like it's not a
light bulb anymore. It's a Raspberry Pi.
I think we should just get rid of the lights and just hang
three Raspberry Pi's from the ceiling. That'd be fun. Yeah.
Great. Mining Bitcoin. Yeah. Well.
I have a I have an opening statement.
Oh, okay. Opening. So hold on a second. Whoa. Okay. Hold on
everybody. We have a motion for the board meeting. point of
personal privilege
when there's personal privilege, the floor is yours. You have the
talking stick.
I feel like the let it is very strange, that the last two
weeks. There has been so much effort and time and money spent
collectively by the podcasting industry to figure out a way to
not let people hear your stuff.
Am I wrong about this?
No, you're absolutely right. This is This is the two dogs,
they're fighting for the bone. And there's a couple of the dogs
on the outside. They all think they can capture podcasting,
because, you know, hey, it's there. Why not? And they're
failing. Yeah, they're failing.
So you have, I was thinking about this earlier. So it's kind
of like, yeah, you know, we talked about value for value
versus pay wall, blah, blah, blah. It's sort of like, fast
food. And sit down restaurant. And I think we can all agree
universally, that sitting down at a restaurant, getting served,
and then showing your appreciation with with a tip or
with modern monetary gratuity after a fine meal, is a much
better experience than paying for the slop up front. And then
just hoping that you get that they that the guy that doesn't
care that much this slinging hash in the back, you know, on
the griddle didn't like spit in. So like, I just feel like the
entire, this, this whole discussion of subscriptions and
paywalls, and membership, and what my favorite month, this is
my favorite phrase. Now, premium content. I like this, this is
all just a way to take a fine dining experience, and turn it
into like, essentially like a 545 at Arby's. And maybe I'm
wrong about this, but it just doesn't feel right to put all
this effort into, into figuring out new ways to prohibit people
from listening to you.
I have never been one to be shy. And, and my ego is not just my
ego this time around is the ego of probably a good 50 to 75
people. I will tell you that this is all happening because of
us. We are yes this we did not go unnoticed. Apple called me
late last year, heard me out, I told them exactly what we were
doing exactly how we're gonna do it, and that they were more than
welcome to join. And they and it's not it's not about money.
It's about perception of ownership. Apple, the way they
speak, is still they want to you to perceive that they have
ownership that they created this, that they were that and
this and by the way, they deserve that credit. But that
doesn't it's not ownership. They deserve all the credit that they
can get for making a lot of this work. But you don't own it. And
these are boardroom questions. This is Board of Directors, this
is shareholders Well, what do you know about podcasting,
Spotify sees me eating your lunch, which they're not. The
news today that Spotify, very disappointing results in growth.
And that was the whole point, the whole point of podcasting
was to get new users who are subscribers, not advertiser
listeners, and to convert existing people to listening
longer, and listening less to music and more to podcast. And
from all the numbers I've seen, and from the numbers the
analysts have put together, it's just the you know, it's like,
well, they got a good bump on Joe Rogan that was a customer
acquisition move. And that's it, it's not really moving the
needle very much. And yeah,
I think I saw they said 25% of their subscribers like 25% of
their monthly active subscribers, listen to podcasts
in the app, which is already low. But a question that number
anyway, because here's what you can shoot me if I'm wrong. This
is got to be the way that they measure that number. You've got,
essentially anybody that accidentally taps on a podcast,
it gets counted as a podcast listener on Spotify.
Well, I would say why don't we just use the same metric that
Facebook uses to charge their customers three seconds of a
video view is the video view.
Yeah, exactly.
That's gotta be it. Also, it's not none of these numbers are
impressive. You want him to you want to hear impressive growth
numbers. In March of 2021 podcast index saw 34,000
transactions that date April 30 2021, we are almost at 68,000
transactions. So we are doubling the amount of transactions we do
month over month. And that's just what the index sees.
There's another at least that at least double that amount.
Because every payment is minimum two transactions, one to the
index one to the podcaster. So and by the way, I had a nice
chat with Roy from breeze today. And he's also looking at their
growth based on transactions per month. And we and we correlated.
And it's it's almost spot on, it makes it makes so much sense.
And the numbers,
it's good to have there. It's good to have verification that
that Yes, correct. Yeah. And actually,
Ryan is doing the lightning labs monthly newsletter. And he asked
me and I said, Well, you know, there's this metric that we're
using is Yeah, look, I know, I got Roy's, too, it's like,
you're talking to us behind our backs. Actually, I will say just
briefly on Roy, because he just gave me a general update, where
that they're about to release a new version. And he's very deep
into lnd. And all the things that are issues, because we
still have tons of issues, you know, channel closings, all
kinds of CPU usage. Now in the in zero point, 13, or something
I know, there's all kinds of stuff going on, always. So I
love getting that update. But I said, Well, what can what can we
do for you, Adam? So Well, what every developer I've spoken to
would really like to have is a connect to this wallet button.
Yeah. And he said so much. And he said,
Look, that is just the mobile operating systems just
technically impossible, because they literally have to run side
by side, or they have both have to be in the foreground. He says
with now you can do it with Android, where you split
screens, he said, but you know, I said at the time, it's a
stupid solution, obviously. But he did, he did reiterate to me.
He says we don't care about the branding or anything like that.
He says, if we can put a breeze technology into an existing app,
we would love that. And they still manage all the chat,
essentially what I was advocating for months ago. But
now we have you know, he's told me that if someone seriously
wants to integrate the breeze code into their app, to they
just have a wallet that they don't have to think about that
just works. They're ready, willing and able to help.
Oh, that's cool. I mean, I wonder how hard that is? I think
it's hard, I think and yes. And I think it's hard because it's
not like, oh, let me just code up this API. You know, there's
all kinds of shit that your app will have to do. In order for
that to function. And it I mean, to me, it almost seems like,
give me everything in the Give me the whole breeze wallet. And
let me put all of my funk functionality into it. Kind of
like what they did with any time player.
Right? So yeah, this is a really, you would have to strap
you'd have to strap your player onto the breeze wall,
I think so. But okay, but you're essentially so that would be
white labeling their whole wallet, and you just do your
thing on top of it, you don't have to show any of the other
stuff. But then you'd have built in the channel management, the
the Bitcoin buying from moon or whatever they do, all of that
would be because above all their lightning service provider and
they want to create the lightning ecosystem. And it's
not important to them. If if it's the breeze, you know, it's
it's not. To them, the end goal is not the breeze podcast app,
their goal is to lightning ephi the entire economy. So if they
can do anything to get this going with other apps, you know,
they want the Roy gave his personal commitment. They're
small, but you know, they will do it. But he says it takes
serious development. It's not a joke. I don't think it's easy at
all. Yeah. But of course, you know, I've learned
that nothing is really easy. Well, the the, the the ultimate
solution, I'm not gonna say better. But the ultimate
solution to a quick, you know, painless entry is lm pay. And
we've, you know, we've got to get that thing figured out where
we can hook that thing up on the back end, for whoever, you know,
because it's, it's, I'm not gonna say is straightforward on
the app side, because there are a lot of challenges. I mean,
Mitch, and, and Martin. I mean, they've all been trying to
figure this thing out. Well, what?
You know, that it's all it's
all Yeah, it's a bit it's all philosophy. You know, it's like
Martin has no problem holding other people's API keys. Yeah,
and you know, and he has no problem I he clearly doesn't
exude any problem having that responsibility. By the way stop
this. Stop this show. But I I received in my PO box
that nice
a pod friend podcast index pillow case.
What
this thing is it's big enough for the pod fathers ass got to
put your own pillow in it is beautiful. It had it must be two
by two. a
pillow case Yes. Yeah, I didn't know that was an option. I'm so
I'm
so one side. It's like It's like a huge double sided flag on one
side. It's, it's the it's the now very familiar pod friend
logo on the other side of the podcast index logo. And along
with that came my very own. I'm sorry, Tina's podcast friend mug
cuz he went Yeah, that's so nice of him to send that to me.
Pillow
pillows were an option. I'm like losing, losing jealous.
Yes,
you shouldn't be you should be total jelly.
Anyway. So back to it that
was coming in on that.
The I know you gave them the PO Box, I'm sure appreciate that.
So on the other hand, you have a Mitch, and he doesn't want to
hold any of that shit. Right. And, and so this, what? I'm
already happy that when I hit a boost button, I get confetti
jizz from everybody. That's me is the best branding ever. And I
appreciate Mitch for putting that in there. I love I'll even
look past your crypto settings label because of the contract.
Yeah, I don't like the crypto term. But that's just me. I
mean, it's it's imperative open for other stuff, I
guess. Well, it's imperative that we have priorities when it
comes to building an open standard. And that confetti is
clearly one of the
what's the most important or most important of all standard
items. It's our secret branding. I love that. I think that's
fantastic. But anyway, so so and that's also where we stagnate.
Oh, another thing I should tell you, Roy is looking seriously at
integrating matrix.
Yeah, have Alice Gates has posted about matrix a few times,
and I will I will claim, utter ignorance about it.
I don't have utter ignorance, but I've looked at it. I know
there's you know, whatever works. I mean, I personally
would just love to have something that works. Similar to
Sphinx chat, because I think paying for your messages is a
smart way to go. I get zero traction on that.
Well, and I don't, I'm not gonna push back necessarily, but I
will say that the only downside to that is then UX. I'll say the
downside now, like right now in the game, is that when you tie
the chat to lightning, then the lightning channels then it like
falls down in the same way that the payments fall down. Yes,
yeah. If something goes wrong, Yes, I understand. I understand.
Yeah. And so like it, it seems, because that's the only that's
the only thing that we're struggling with here. Sometimes
those channels just fall over thing is and I took
Gene's comment to heart on our on our previous jitsi call the
juicy where we discussed the confetti jazz is that once you
have comments, you introduce a whole host of things and and one
of them is moderation. And I just really now so what I
noticed with the swings chat app besides some obvious issues that
always crop up with channels and routing and liquidity to make it
actually function you know, the chats are not very long not very
debated. And it's not like telegram where I tune in like oh
there's 14,000 messages in this one group it's because it costs
money so I'm you know, it's that's just a philosophical
thing. It's going to cost podcast app developers money to
implement this to maintain it. So I you know, to me, it's like
well, why don't we just make it actually money and then you make
it that much easier?
I don't fit on a philosophical level. Agree 100% you can play
ISO giving people power.
We live doing that
giving people power and expecting them to be disciplined
about it is completely insane.
Where that from
that is from we can do a little bit of this you want to comes
from New York Times podcast called the argument. I'm
actually a big fan of the lady and I forget her name. The lady
who runs it, who hosts It is like I think she was with slate
or some No no, I'm sorry, Vox. So I saw that she was with Vox
and I was like, but then look up her her history. And she's
really fair. Like she is like,
way she This is not a Kara Swisher is it?
No, no I forget No, no, this is not cares. I forget this lady's
name, but she's really good. Like, I looked up a lot of her
former articles and stuff like that. And she really plays it
down the middle and tries to be tries to be honest with with
things. So I'm, I'm actually dig in the show a lot she brings,
she brings up in like in one of the late or one of the episodes,
she brings up the whole thing about the filibuster. And the
and she's talking about where she's given equal size. And
that's that's what that clip is from. But then I was listening
to as I started it over, and I'm not sure if it's dynamic ads or
what it is. But I think I started it back to get a clip
from it. And this is what showed up Facebook pre roll.
This podcast is supported by Facebook. 25 years ago, phones
weren't smart yet. And people still said fax it to me. The
internet has changed a lot since 1996. But that's the last time
comprehensive internet regulations were passed. That's
why Facebook once updated internet regulations to set
clear guidelines for addressing today's toughest challenges.
protecting privacy, enabling safe and easy data portability
between platforms and more. Learn more about why Facebook
supports updated internet regulations at about fb.com
slash regulation. Wow, that's
a good catch. There you go. That's how you do it. You lobby
all the all the politicians in the EU make sure there's really
expensive regulations that cost a lot of money to adhere to. And
then if you make it impossible for new entrants,
and then you add, and then you buy pre rolls on the New York
Times of podcasts.
That's what you do. That's America, baby.
That's the mean, clearly, when I think Facebook, I think that
their main desires are data portability. Yeah, privacy,
freedom of
speech. Oh, yeah.
I
love the data portability. Oh, yeah. No, I think they want the
portability, so they can suck up someone else's data, then I can
give that back to you. Yeah, here's the CSV file. Good luck.
csv. Yeah. Here's a 47 gig CSV have fun.
Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
No, I mean, what brought What was interesting to me about the
whole Spotify thing is, you know, you take all the Spotify
subscription crap, and then you sort of now they're spraying
they're sprinkling a little bit of Facebook on top of it in some
weird way.
But then, here's what I don't understand the obsession. This
is a spell. And and it's particularly the press the
media, the journalist, oh, Apple did something Apple farted. And
I've been you know, I use apples all my life until I started
really looking what they were doing professional audio and
video and didn't work for me anymore. Especially how they
were messing around. USB is a mess, all kinds of stuff, but
have no no core issues. I'm not a hater. I mean, just listen to
all of the podcasts, all of the fawning over Oh, apples changed
it to follow instead of subscribing. Well, that means
subscriptions are gone. And then it comes in. It's like it's a
wet fart and everybody knows it. And Oh, don't worry, APA will
fix the bug. It's not the ball. And don't worry, APA will fix
it. Hey, get a clue people. Apple doesn't care about you.
They don't care. They don't care.
My favorite part was how certain people couldn't get into upload
their shows for like a week.
And then, yesterday, I posted no agenda show with some of the
shittiest audio in my professional career.
And that hurts you Yeah,
well, you know, yes, I can draw many parallels and you
understand you understand? I did remaster I was able to fix a
little bit. But anyway, and I see all these people showing up
on Apple App. upload it to Apple. What are you on? Yeah,
I'm on the new one. Okay, yeah, five hours hasn't updated. Well,
it's time to look at new podcast. apps.com. We have such
an opportunity here.
I agree. So this is a point I want to bring up. And you like
my voice by the way of all the different players out there on
the internet. That's my Twitter. My array of Twitter voices
actually.
Yeah, they all that's probably pretty much with it. When I when
I read them. That's the voice I do in my head.
Yeah.
So here's the thing that this and I think we talked about this
last week. But I want to say this even more. There is such an
easy way to fix this. The the apple podcast app, evidently is
hot garbage. I haven't even seen it. Yet, and everybody is
concerned about them limiting, you know, the open podcast
ecosystem, it is so easy to fix this recommend people to use
different apps on your show and on your hosting platform. So
hosting companies like, you know, buzzsprout, blueberry, and
SR captivate date barsa, they can RSS calm they can, like,
when you sign up for a new account, they can say, here's
some great apps, this support, like 2.0 features and just give
you an overall better listener experience. Here's a good list.
And why don't you you know, encourage them to, to say that
on their show, you know to recommend to their audience that
that they did their audience listened to just like you do you
do on your shows you say if you're listening to this, and
podcasting 2.0 player, you're seeing chapters now you're
seeing this
as of as of yesterday show I am highlighting and mentioning one
app per show. So um, so yesterday, I said, All right, I
want you to check out pod friend pod friend calm, I'm hoping that
pod versus available for a Sunday doesn't matter. Because,
you know, we have we have so many of them. And I'm just going
to rotate that and, and even john, because you know, it's
always weird, you're promoting so we don't really promote
anything in the show. But I said, you know, you know,
there's some issues here and this is podcasting is under
attack. You need to use a different app, because your
shits not gonna work, it's gonna get turned off. And and I and I
know that we just and you're so right Dave, too, to our friends
and colleagues and participants at the hosting companies. I am
somewhat from the future. Sometimes it takes a lot. You
can't bet on me, okay? Because you get the bet always comes 10
years late, but you're in trouble. You've got to be
careful, there are moves being made. And I think Apple and
Spotify are the least of your worries, stop looking over
there. He's got decentralization taking place before your very
eyes. So and you need to take that into your your your your
your strategy, to me to take it into account moving forward.
because things are going to be happening and particularly with
network effect and how it works with you know, it didn't take
long for clubhouse to be a sensation. It won't take long
for one app or something to happen and then all of a sudden
you may be out of the hosting business. You may be out of the
file hosting business you may be relegated to God knows what but
I agree. Now's the time not while the while you're at
because it's not my enemy apples not my enemy. I think they've
neutral they've neutered themselves as has Spotify,
that's fine. While they're weak strike this is a time when we
should be promoting the way forward we have the brand
podcasting 2.0 that is our brand. It's it's recognized you
can go anywhere and Pete is over there those guys, now is the
time to end it's better. There's nothing better than Spotify and
Apple than oh wait version 2.0. Why am I mucking around with
this shit? I get pretty passionate?
Well, I think, yeah, I think we all do. And that's what I talked
to actually talked to a hosting company yesterday. And we were
talking about a little bit about that about how, you know the
threat to the landscape and all that, that jazz. And I really
think there's this idea in philosophy or in rhetoric or
philosophy or philosophical arguments, what do you want to
call it? where you say, you know, you never challenged the
man with the microphone, or the men with microphone always wins.
And he knows this idea that you know, if you're, if you have a
dispute, or you want to contradict the professor, in
charge of the interviews in the front of the class, you really
don't want to do that. You really don't want to do that
during the class because he's the man with a microphone, he's
gonna win every time. And podcasting individually and
podcasters are literally an army of microphones.
That's right. They are the audio with an audience of Twitter
users and Facebook users and they love their their favorite
podcasts,
if every if every podcaster took it on themselves, to recommend
to their audience to try to just try a different podcast app that
meet that needle wouldn't move radically away from
the big the big players, especially when they start to
see some of the features and I would say that the in the
chicken and the egg of podcasting is my experience.
That is really the listener Who, who make that happen? At
listeners need to tell their podcasters? That's the big one.
So you get one or two listeners saying, Hey, man, check out,
check it out, check out this app, the podcaster looks at the
app, and then more than more likely than not, hey, that's
kind of cool. And then they will talk about it. So it Yeah, the
listeners have. In fact, this is a, a listener driven revolution,
not podcasters. It's the listeners who are driving it.
But the hosts Can, can, can take a more active role, but the
hosts are
completely oblivious to it. We have 200 people less than 200
who have a value block, no one, the rest doesn't know. The
listeners have to start propagating that to their
podcasters. Then the pod the podcasters are clueless do I
think?
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, the podcasters are clueless, but see
that but that's where the hosting companies can take an
active role in it. Because that's their, that's their big
benefit. Yes, there's
their USP. Yeah, they should be doing nodes and all kinds of
stuff for their podcasters and the education piece, the
education pieces, because they can actively fight back against
this. Now they already were already winning. Yeah, I really,
I really realized No, no, but we're winning. All of this stuff
is because there was something too powerful RSS was coming to
the forefront. It's extended. Hey, wait a minute. They're
doing features only we can do with our infrastructure. Berber,
Berber bra. No, no, no, I
love I love that. We we have, you know, we introduced
channels, the idea that you can put multiple podcasts into a
channel,
Dave, Dave goes hold my beer.
like Tom Ross, he caught up and said that and put that in the
issues. I was like, made you be me too. And I was literally
about to create.
Ross, he put it in first with Rossi. Oh, that's fantastic.
Yeah, that's what I mean. Is that be a podcast, podcasting?
2.0 goes hold my beer. Let me get this feature for you.
Yeah, well, no, I just I just think that you're right. I think
we are winning. And I think I think there's certain people
that have been in the apple spell for so long that they
don't realize it yet. And so yeah, that's part part of our
mission to really, you know, focus index is to convince
people that they are actually winning. Yes, no, you are,
you're doing you're doing just fine. Just keep just put the gas
put the pedal down.
Now to ensure that when we when we really win, I'd like to
introduce our guest for today, who has been sitting by quite
patiently is we've been yapping along. This is not just any old
guest. He is in fact, a partner in podcast index, LLC. And we
have many names for him. But I would say accurately described
as the Swiss Army Knife of the index. Ladies and gentlemen,
Eric Mackey.
Yay,
turd,
the turd Ferguson this podcast.
Don't get that reference.
That's it. That's
it. I don't want I haven't watched that night live in 10
years.
Probably about the time that sketch was there. So let me give
you let me give a little background that you need to
introduce yourself properly because people have only heard
maybe is Eric the shill from the no agenda show and are just
playing Eric? Yeah. Well, no. No, I don't think I've ever
called you rat bastard. But your face but the most important
thing is now when Dave and I started all of this. And we saw
that okay, this is serious. I said, All right, we need to get
the right person in. Who can think with us on the same level
and protect our ass so we don't go to jail be don't do something
stupid that could just ruin the whole project and go to jail
part was regarding the idea that we knew that somehow Bitcoin
would play a load lightning would play into this. Someone
who had set up all the legal stuff. And well, we've
effectively Eric, you and I have been working together in some of
that capacity with the no agenda show for how long now? Almost,
almost since the beginning, so probably 1112 years. Yeah. So
why don't you give us a little bit of your background and, and,
and how you came to be and came into this project?
Yeah, let's see my background professionally. It was it. And
then enterprise software for companies either in Redmond, or
you know, Seattle, or the valley or wherever. And then I got into
consulting, and have done business consulting, where I
grew into business consulting and everything else with code on
the side. And then you and john got together and that started
taking off and you Well, john wanted me to come in and help
which I'm his stepson. So he wanted someone he could trust.
Always a dangerous combination to work with family, though.
Well, yeah, but the family is a big giant business anyway. So
it's kind of
it's a giant business and mean, he really runs it, right?
Yes.
To make sure, yeah. I mean, so you've been doing all the books,
and you do the donation notes. I mean, it's, it's really an
unsung hero of the no agenda show because of the and I would
say, also a lot of donor outreach, you're always talking
to producers, and always dealing with a lot of crap that you keep
away from, certainly from me.
Well, and keep it running, keep the drama low, and just, you
know, just fend off potential problems.
Right. So I asked you to come into the index project. And you
know, with the initial goal of, you know, let's set up the LLC,
let's set up our legality. Let's make sure we can even do this. I
mean, what, you know, just all of that stuff. And now you've
really expanded into more, so why don't you talk about what
you're doing. So you can tell the rest of the board members
here. Hello, everybody. They're all sitting on pod friend
pillows.
With a full board room,
full boardroom today,
it's a full board.
Everybody what you what you let everybody know what you're
doing?
Well, yeah, it's it's I guess, I'm working on kind of what what
you guys are working on, you know, Dave's working on the
namespace days working on the API, doing all that code, but
there's still some packaging front end heading off, kind of
same thing with producers or, you know, with the show is that
they need things, they need tools, they need depth, we're
working on both the getting the on ramps streamlined and easier
to use. And for podcasters. Yes, for podcasters. And, you know,
take some of the support stuff that Dave's doing. And give, you
know, give them the tools to solve it themselves. But then
also providing some of the other things that, you know, watching
the the various channels where the developers are talking about
the issues, they're having the things they're running in. And
then, so that's where we have like the image server coming up.
And
yeah, that's what I'm working on that. I want to hear you talk
about that too.
Yes. So the image caching server where it's, it's Goofy, but it's
working slowly to cache all the feed images, eventually, it'll
support episode and chapter images. So they're cached in
four basic sizes for app developers to just call so they
don't have to deal with caching and storing 3 million or
whatever active, you know, chapter and episode and channel
images.
That is basically the same concept that we had a similar
concept to what we had at the beginning when we tried to, and
that project failed. But you're you you're actually going to
take it and make it actually function this. But
it's up in I mean, it's caching trending constantly. It's it's
there's three processes running one to constantly cache and
update trending, and the new the stuff that's being added, but
then there's another one that's coming up to get everybody else
to wonder when is
this gonna be ready for primetime? When can dev start
using it?
Um, right now it's got about 400,000 feeds cached. So
you want to have all the feeds cache before, before you unleash
it.
I want to I have all the constantly updating or the no
agenda and stuff like that in the trending the ones that
update a lot are getting cached. But I want to I want to make
sure I have at least a million feeds in there. God, what
what would help you? Do you need a list of the ones that are
getting called a lot? And what would help you prioritize?
Because you know, you don't want to know how you're thinking, if
it's the same thing I'm hearing as well, I don't want to cache
three and a half million shows when only 100,000 of them get
requested. Like how can we make sure that we're not wasting,
wasting that?
Not sure. Right now what it is I have to go on and just work on
speed. It's just cashing too slow right now.
But if if, if maybe I'm just simplistic this way, if an app
is using the image service, and it requests show XYZ, and it's
not cached, I presumably would cache it and then you'd have it
right then then you wouldn't have to worry about that. For
the for the time being. Well, it
does serve up a no image file, so there's a fallback so that
you don't get a broken link. Okay. But no, it's not currently
caching on the fly. There's a back end to store it. But
I wonder if we, if, if I could ship you the logs from like
maybe the last, oh, gosh, maybe logs from like the last 90 days.
And you could just do those first. prioritize those is that
would that
yes, that's doable.
Okay, because it's like if it's if a if an app has not requested
an AI, if an app has not requested a list of episodes for
a re feed ID in the last 90 days is probably not worth, you know,
prioritizing. And then you can keep backs that you keep
backfilling in the background, but then right, once you
actually need, are they they're in there, and then you can
launch quicker.
Yeah, right now, I'm just going off last update date. And just
pulling that back.
Is this something that the developers desperately need?
I don't know if it's desperate, but it's, it's actually pretty
important. They're, they're really struggling with that.
Because they that it's, when you request an image off, you can
just leave out if all you have is an image URL and you request
that thing. You really have no idea what you're getting. Right?
It comes at 20 meg PDF? Yeah. Come on down the line for you.
And it's 3000 dpi. Well, yeah, and if it's a 4000 pixel wide
image, but you're serving up on a phone, you don't need to load
all that data.
Right. Okay, got it, that makes a hell of a lot of sense. It's a
nice service.
Well, yeah, it's trying to backfill where I can with, with
what Dave's doing with the own. And so you're talking about the
onboarding A while ago. And what that, what that means is,
you're, you're creating a way for people to claim their feed,
and be able to get in there and do some basic, basic stuff with
it. So that we don't have to, well, that and also add their
feed. So if they created a, if they created their feet over
here on on transistor, then they can and they noticed this not in
the index, they can create an account and plug in their feet
in. Right.
Right. And then and then generate a value block down the
road, or after that.
Okay. Yeah, that that's a, that's something that's been
sorely missing, is a way for people to put feeds into the
index from the public. And wait, it's just one of those things.
Like, you know, I appreciate this, this kind of thing that
you're doing here, because it's not so hard to stop looking at
the, at the technical functional piece of the API, and go over
here and write something. It's like, a Forgot Password link.
I'm like, it's the dirty business is the dirty business
man told no,
it's, it's the packaging, and it's all the side stuff. And
it's like, Yeah, you've got this and I want and I really want you
focusing on that. And lightning and, and frankly, the things I
need more than more than resetting a feed or adding a
feed or you know, any of these other things that are just their
overhead.
So I've got something I want to ask you about. And it's this is
a result regarding Alex was asking some issues about, he's
running like a side service, he's running a no agenda to be
calm. In this, I think this would apply to lots of different
things that people are doing with podcast index, these little
sort of side services, if they want to make if they want to
take donations, or allow for things if they want to operate
more like a business. Even though if it's going to even
though it's just something small, like a side project. You
know, because like, people are wondering, well, if I create
this little this side project, something like let's just say
Andy laymen's soundbites website, he's got a thing that
monitors all the recent sound bites in the index. And then
shows the shows them so you can sort of browse on like a site
like that. If, let's just say he wants to graduate that thing up
to the next level, so to speak. He wants to be able to take
like, have people comment on on the site, and maybe he wants to
take donations and that kind of thing? Is there certain advice
from like a business perspective that you would give people on?
What age do they need to go to all the trouble starting an LLC
or something like that, or can they just do that in a safe way
that's a couple different layers to that. If you like keeping
your house and your assets, I would say put a corporation
between you and everybody else. If you're going to do anything
that involves, well, if you're going to invest any money to buy
equipment and services, and you're spending money, then from
a tax perspective, yeah, you should set up a business. So you
can write that stuff off. If you're going to be making money.
You know, it should be compartmentalised from both the
liability and accounting standpoint. If it's not, if it's
just a side business, and you're not, I mean, I guess the line
for me is if you're going to spend more than $5,000 a year, I
would say, spend the money, spend a couple 100 bucks set up
an LLC and go through the trouble. Because then it's worth
it on your taxes, and likely you're under estimating how much
you're going to spend. Yeah. And you might as well why pay tax on
it? Why not write off the expenses? You can write up
$50,000 for a business startup? On your personal so
in America in the United States,
right. And I'm, I don't do European stuff. So rest of the
world. So yeah, I'm talking exclusively with the US
is so like, here's an here's an example like Mark Martin net pod
friend. I know he's really wanting to do comments, and like
podcast reviews and stuff in the app, and right, and possibly
chat type stuff. So I mean, from a legal standpoint, what does he
need to do to make sure, I mean, ignoring the fact that he's from
didn't know he's domiciled in Denmark, that, what would he
there's somebody like him need to do to make sure that legally,
they're not going to get screwed by somebody posting something on
his website that they should be taken down or something like
that?
Um, well, I mean, you do have the copyright office with the US
for the DMCA, but Digital Millennium Copyright Act. But
that's, you know, this
is legal. This is legal advice. He is a lawyer. And so you can
I'm just kidding.
Like I said, if you're getting accounting and legal advice from
a podcast, you
know, I think it's, it's probably more helpful. Because,
of course, we can't give anyone any advice. But maybe just to
tell people, what we've done is better than trying to look at
individual situation. So to protect us, what have you done
in that regard.
So we set up, obviously, LLC, separate books, separate
accounting, and then we've registered and as a, as a unit
to comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we
have a notice and a policy and a mechanism for people to submit
requests, and what that, you know, per the law, and that
gives us section 230 protections from, you know, and then the
other things we're not doing. We're not being an editor of
content is the other thing is drawing that line of what we're
going to do, and you know, how far we're gonna go with the rest
of it.
But what's interesting is that comes right down to the section
230 discussion that's ongoing with the social media companies
is, you know, when is it editorial? Just because, you
know, like, I didn't like what that guy said, I'm taking that
comment off, or I don't want you know, let's say, it's just so
when it comes to comments and stuff, man, there's a lot of
things you got to write about. There's so much and so many, if
you want to do moderation, you need real tools, and not just
the command line, nuke this or hide that. Yeah, I
don't, I don't know that I have the the background to cover the
comments and what's involved there. And the liabilities that
that would open up and how you protect yourself from that. I
mean, he should because he's operating and he's making money,
or at least he spending money, he should probably set up some
sort of business. And, and and do that from No, I don't Yeah,
right. Yeah,
that I'm sure that I'm just I think that a lot of people are
just now starting to think about the implications because the
these apps matter, you got real users and the real thing is
taking place. Probably the thing that you've looked at the most
is the US regulation towards crypto Bitcoin in particular.
That may or may not affect what we're doing moving forward.
Right, like a lot of the countries that are part of the F
ATF and slash Gaffey, the financial whatever they held
Task Force, they have their recommendations with crypto and
they have all their member countries and a lot of those
member countries are taking those recommendations seriously.
So in a lot of ways, what's coming in the US is going to
happen in a lot of other member countries, eu and everybody
else. Yeah, and I've been you know, I'm watching Trying to
gauge what's coming. You know, and like it, like the way you
brought me in to be a part of this was really to kind of
bridge what you guys want to do. And reconciling that with
current laws and making sure that everything's laying on wall
wolfssl recovered and just, you know, it's we're compliant and
we end when you know someone wants to come ask questions we
can say, Okay, well
Here you go.
I would say the number one argument we have with Eric is
know your customer. We need to know who these people are. And
Dave now got no, no, we don't know. We will just shut it down,
man. We don't want to know anyone. And I love and I really
do love that friction. Because Eric, you totally are the guy
who has to ask the crap questions and be the buzzkill.
And it's really appreciate it because it's it sucks.
Sometimes, you know, and you get someone's opinion aid like me,
like, I'm ready to cut anybody down. Although I've I've gotten
better. But it's important, it really is an important function
to keep everything running. And it also really helps determine
what we can do what we should be doing and the path for podcasts
index itself.
Right. And and it's it's just my you know, I guess I'm the
buzzkill in the room. Cuz I feel now we can't do that. Here's
why. You know, which sucks. But you know, because I am
supportive, and I understand and I see the sides, but I have to
be that normie buzzkill.
You're gonna love this. I was talking to mark Hall. He's a
documentary filmmaker here in Austin, who I've known for gosh,
I've known him for eight years or so. And he saw animated no
agenda working on I think pod friend, Ben, he says, Hey, Adam,
is a whole universe right now have documentary filmmakers who
have films who cannot get onto the streaming platforms, they're
not even accepted. They can't monetize. If they can monetize.
It's, it's it's worse than Spotify how little money they
get. He says, everyone is so desperate. We really want to see
can we fit within this stuff that you're doing? And I said,
Well, yes. Why don't we you know, of course, what they would
love is an app that said, documentary film app. I said,
Well, I don't know if you actually want that incident
being it just consider this as a as a podcast, a very long
episode. And what he's what he's committed to is, he feels that
he he feels that the value from that value model will work
because all of these films, they always have, although often not
much, but they have budget for promotion. And they really would
love to promote value for value documentary consumption through
podcasting, 2.0, and he's committed his, I would say
outstanding documentary killing ed to be the first one. And so
the challenge and yeah, if we could make it work, and if and
yet I just make it work, I would say he will, he will go out and
he will tell everyone to come and do this. And he says he
thinks there's a couple of people who would jump on pretty
quick. And so the challenge is, we need someone who can help him
with this. Okay, and he's got the video file. And that's and
I'm just bringing this up, Eric, just because it's going to be so
much fun. We get into copyright and royalties. It's
so much fun.
It's gonna be I'm sure he owns everything outright. But if I
don't know if Alex's game if he wants to work with the with the
video and just, you know, how do we get a proper RSS feed, maybe
we only really need to feed with one entry. But he also sees the
benefits as holy crap the transcripts, he so we know
transcript needs to be run. I'm sure that there may be someone
out there who's listening who wants to participate in what
we're doing at podcasting. 2.0 and I'm sure the the the parties
involved, like Alex, etc. Everyone will meet on podcast
index on social and let's get this done. Because I know if I
commit to doing it, it's going to suck it's not going to
happen. Right? It's it's going to be frustrating for me, and it
won't be as good as it could be. And you know, we need to he
would like to do chapters and and he'll work he'll do whatever
is necessary.
We've got the trailer tag come in this this face. I mean, all
of this stuff fits so perfectly. And I said you know, you don't
really want an independent documentary app. You want this
shit working and just you want to say get a podcasting 2.0 app.
Yeah, every app every Yeah, not one every app. Yeah, but you
know, you gotta break through the spell sometimes.
Anyway, so I wrote in that mindset
it's no one's in the mindset man everyone is. Just go back to the
I just see people under spell app on Spotify.
Eric, we had our we had our union vote yet. Man Adam would
like to unionize against us.
Yeah, we do. No, no unions.
Did you see the gimlet and ringer ratified their union
contracts with the Writers Guild of America?
No, I didn't. I didn't yet. This is the end of that.
No, here's my favorite part. And let me let me read I have I have
the, the distilled set of points that they agree to. This is my
favorite one. Edit editorial snit. Well, let me try this one
first. establishment of new senior titles. That's one of the
things that they want.
Now, the important stuff up top. Yeah, everybody's parking, free
parking. We want more lunch
coupons. Everybody's VP now. And now. And here's my favorite,
though. editorial standards that guarantee that the company will
not modify or fail to publish content based on the direction
of advertisers. And that bargaining unit employees will
not be required to work on advertising and branded content.
Yeah, no,
this is this is that's, that is actually the big issue. And they
they hate the ads that are running on their shows. And they
hate having to work on ads for products that they
philosophically or politically don't agree with.
How can you ever agree to this editorial standards that
guarantee the company will not modify or fail to publish
content based on the direction of advertisers? Yes, the whole
reason you exist. Yeah.
Yeah. Now they don't they don't realize it. And it's sad,
because this is what what I was saying. It's like, go ahead,
you're gonna see what it's like I, I ran a podcasting company, I
ran a podcast network, it can't be done. Everyone gets unhappy
with these people are unhappy because they're getting paid
shit. And they see all these hundreds of millions, like, why
am I still getting paid shit to edit these shows together? The
model of podcasting really doesn't even support an a
separate editor. Yeah, it really doesn't. It's a one man show or
two, whatever you're doing, but you can't be hiring people, you
will not make money that way. Which is why our system is so
beautiful, because everybody gets a split of whatever comes
in.
Yeah. And, and for podcasts index is beautiful, because we
don't make any money anyways.
Yeah. Speaking of such Dave, let's, let's thank some of our
supporters for this past week. And personally, I think that I
think everyone should congratulate themselves, not on
this show, particularly but the entire boardroom, because we
prepared for what happened, and it happened. And we were ready.
And we were there to step up. And our apps were working. And
we were able to really pick up like 1015 new developers who
were coming in, and not just app developers, but websites with
certain types of functionality. And it's all because of the
support that everyone is put into this project. It's your
time, it's your talent, it's your treasure. And I just gave a
I gave a little challenge there for people to put some time into
something. But people who offer us treasure is equally as
important, sometimes more so certainly to keep everything
running. So I go to podcast index.org. Down at the bottom
you see a big red Donate button. That's for your cup bucks
through PayPal, but you can also just boost the crap out of the
show right now. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, get
pod friend breeze the Sphinx chat or even the pod station
browser extension. Learn how to do it. You can and then boost us
and crank those sliders up too.
I was gonna toast you with my pod friend mug but
forget it.
I'll just throw it on your pillow. Well, Martin Morrison
from pod friend fame gave us $123.45 12345 a
magic donation Martin.
Thank you so much.
That's unnecessary, but appreciated.
That is $123.45 in US currency. What is the Danish currency
called?
We think it's 17,000 kroner.
No Okay.
The kroner is probably equal to satoshis I'm not sure. I'll bet
you the kroner is actually quite strong. Let me see. Do this
Corona and you know that shits strong You know,
that's no yeah.
Let me see. I think it's the kroner these the Corona, Corona
kroner.
For those countries in that area still have gold backing right or
is it all or is that all gone? Oh,
please.
Okay for those
who don't see what DKK to USD Raiders Hold on,
because I'm afraid we just raided his retirement funds.
Let me see select the currency Yeah, just hurry up people just
give me the functionality. What is going on with this? It's
Martin. Martin says a small gift from pod friend. You guys are
awesome. I'm happy to play a small part in the greatest
movement for distributed free speech in the universe. Oh,
Martin.
That's so nice. That's very, very cool. Okay, let me see. So,
did you find that crazy kroner?
Is that what it is? It's 6.18 kronor to the dollar.
Oh, oh, that's worse than Australia. That's not good,
Martin.
You better you better buy some bitcoins on
his exit strategies. Probably.
He's probably he's probably stalking some SATs. Man. We had
a beautiful little exchange with your namesake there. Neal Jones,
who's the clip custodian for no agenda show. And just an FYI.
He's doing clips. And he was he was happy to do it. And I said,
Look, man, I gotta give you 5% of the value blog. Edwards
60,000 SATs you'd already gotten.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yes. Yeah. He had he had 60,000 SATs in a savings channel
was full. It stopped receiving. I said, Well, okay. Yeah. So we
helped him out with that. But bottom line is that kind of
added up.
Yeah, that's not that's that's not good. Anything to shake a
stick? It was 6600 bucks.
No, no, no. 3037 or something at this point?
No, no, he can take he can take Mrs. Clip custodian to dinner.
I don't know if there's a Mrs. Club custodian.
You can go get one now. Exactly. Big baller.
Hello. Here's my Satoshi Lambo.
Imagine that on your first date from a from a Tinder match or
something like that. You're like, you tell the waitress
you're like, Hey, can I pay and set? Like your dates? Like, what
have I gotten myself into? Okay, Michael, Michael valic. Gave us
$25 and no note that I could find all Thank you, Michael. See
here. We got James Lew gave us $5. no note.
Thank you. Thank you, James. Is Dred Scott's wallet still
working? Because I saw that failing on pod versus that still
was working or not.
Now I think it's good. Yeah. Last I heard.
Tell me. Yeah, you got to let us know, man.
Do and Stuart Eckert gave us $5. no note. Thank you, Stuart.
Yeah. And I wanted to read. I wanted to read our monthly
donors that came in this week because I've been bad about not
doing that. He said he's gonna run Yes, it's really easy to
please do. Larry Hey, sir. Hey, moose gave us $50 droid works,
LLC. $20. Jeff Miller $20. sees Dred Scott $15. Michael kimmerer
$5.33. Let's do quotes $6.66. Leslie Martin $2. Terry Keller,
four 411. Aaron, Aaron Renaud $5, Pedro down calvus $5. And
Kevin ROA $5. So I'm going to be better about that reading those
ones that come in during the week each week. And
that's really appreciated. Thank you all so much for keeping us
keeping everything running keeping us on the road.
On a post it notes. I'm just gonna do a real tiny one
was there. How are we on on servers? Dave with the with? I
know, we have increased traffic to the API. Are we good?
Everything we're oversized? Yeah, we were oversized a bit to
begin with. So I think we're okay on the database
stuff. Everything seems everything's okay. Right now, we
we will have to upsize the database server at some point.
But I'm just not sure it's right this minute. I mean, I'm just
thinking within the next few weeks. And yeah, then we're
we're good. It's a big jump from the size we're at now to the
next step.
level. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. So I'm just trying to make sure that we don't we
don't do that unnecessarily, but so we're good. So there's a
couple things
that you're working on that I think we should discuss. And
you're I think you're getting ready to present pod Ping. Which
to me feels Like, it's kind of the future of, of the index, and
its survivability.
Yeah, I want to, I'm interested to get, get your take on this.
Eric, because we really hadn't had a chance to talk about this
is, and I'm almost done with the presentation. For tomorrow, I
think we're gonna have
a I think we're doing a thing tomorrow. Yeah.
Okay. So the pod pain is the is this idea of just basically a
closed network of hosts must say host me, I should say, hosting
companies, or what we could call publishers, and subscribers,
apps and services. So you got host, some publishers on one and
subscribers on the other, just just the same as you would think
about a web sub scenario. But it's just a closed system. And
so there will be any, you know, multiple servers in the middle
of this system, facilitating a pipeline of updates going from
publishers to subscribers. And I think if we do it, right, we can
solve multiple problems at once. And one will be a way to get to
rapidly get thede update notifications from publishers to
subscribers. The other is a way to get new feeds into the open
RSS ecosystem is one. One thing that's a problem here is that
you have all these hosts. Okay, so you got the bus route,
blueberry transistor, cafe, farside, RSS Comm. You got all
these hosts, independently creating feeds. And in the past
of for all these years, they've sort of they've congregate, or
they've, they've been aggregated into a single directory
somewhere, and app, Apple became sort of the dominant somewhere.
There's other directories. Now there's us. There's blueberry,
blah, blah, blah. So these other directories, the problem is they
they did not always you have to just go find them, almost by
accident, get to find these feeds, or you have to scrape
apple. Well, neither one of those are good, accurate, any of
the any of the above, popping would allow all the hosts or
hosting companies, publishers, podcast publishers, to have a
pipeline into all of the into into anybody who's listening. So
they would, anytime that they did a feed on their network
updates, they'll send an email send an update pane, anytime a
podcast gets created on their network, they can send a ping to
let everybody know, a new podcast was just born on my
system. So everybody gets notified that there's now a new
podcast in the world, within, you know, 10 minutes. And that
lets us not depend on any one directory to have to have the
source of truth, or to be the Yellow Pages. Everybody can just
know automatically that a new fade was created. And then the
other thing that it did, it solves to me is the ability to
create a universal podcast identifier, which is something
we've never had, you know, everywhere. Everybody's trying
to use iTunes IDs and stuff
seems like this a dying a dying idea.
Well, yeah, I mean, and apples, the one that killed it. Yeah,
you know, by making it unreliable. Now, you can't now
you can't depend on a podcast being on an iTunes ID being able
to return a Feed URL. Right? So what good does the iTunes Id
give you anymore? So anyway, that's that's the whole idea
behind behind this, this system and is closed, so that it's
closed, so that you can so that you can make things easier and
more efficient. So that you don't have to depend you don't
have to we go through all these hoops to weed out bad actors.
And that kind of stuff is basically just a registration
process that you have to go through to sign up on the
publisher side. Anybody can listen, they'll still be a
registration process. Anybody can listen, but there will there
will have to be approval process decentralized
is the process that that Apple has held traditionally.
Yes, that's a great way to describe it. And
so how does it work? Where What are we pinging? Where does that
server live? who maintains that? Is that? Is that centralized?
What what's the deal?
Well, it will be a group. It'll be a group of servers is the
idea. So you have a vaccinated? Yeah. So we clearly we would run
one. And maybe a hosting company could run one, you know,
somebody, most browsers might run one. If they wanted to note.
Yeah, yeah, no. And so. So here's the here's the critical
piece is the D is you have a DNS entry, you have an a record for,
for
pod pain cloud. And there in that a record is a little can
list multiple hosts. So throughout the round robin,
Round Robin, so if there's let's just say there's six pod ping
servers in the world, then one of them, you get one of them a
random one each time. And so each one of the piping servers
needs to be able to fully service a request from start to
finish all the way through. And that way, there's no dependence
on one on one single point of failure. And if there's, let's
just say six 710 of these things, they can all efficiently
run the entire thing on their own if need be. So in that way,
you only have one DNS, and so all the hosts all the hosts, all
the publishers know that all they have to do is is ping is
send an update to pain cloud slash. All right,
I'm going to take you up the stack one more step, pod. Ping
cloud, who has that? Me? Okay, that's all I needed to hear.
You think I was born yesterday? I learned I learned from
I learned by watching you okay.
Yeah, you have an idea and need a DNS. That's the first thing
you do. Right? Yeah.
I only have 2000. Yeah, well, now I'm starting to when I get
the, the, it's time for renewal. I'm starting to go in and get
rid of some.
That's a big bill. You have to
but if you've got if you got an idea, I've got a domain name for
it.
Let's make a deal. You
know, so they read you some of my domain names.
Yes, please. Okay.
24 seven gaga.com 99 fists.com
Whoa, what
is that? I don't like a kung fu
I was gonna go but okay.
These these don't resolve anywhere as far as I know. Or
not all of them. Let me see. What else do I have? astrology
therapist? comm Barry and joe.com you can know where that
comes from. Bias bing.com Come on, come on. Come on. Big Book
show which was actually something real
Yeah, remember that? We had a free patroller set up for that.
Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. What else do I have? Oh my gosh.
Chrome pof.com No idea.
What is that? I
have no idea Clinton 990 dot org foundation Yes. Right. That's
exactly right. New war new woke order not calm. I think that's
not too bad.
No agenda hams calm. That's real. I'm just skipping around
here. I'll just do one more. One more page. Holy crap. I got a
lot. Oh, ROM comcast.com I'm pretty Rona radio.com that's one
of my favorites. That one's working.
That's a good one. Is that is that redirect some brands that
nogen
probably let me see it goes to
Oh, no.
Oh, wait. No, well, a second. I was not dead. Rona rady I think
it was going to something else before I change that. What does
it go to now? Yeah, no agenda show. Yeah.
Okay. So by the way, set soundbites. Sam Sethi to answer
your question. sound bites have no limit. They can be as long as
you want them to be. The recommendation in the spec is
1515 to 120 seconds. So between 15 seconds to two minutes. But
that's just a recommendation. There's nothing in the spec that
are arbitrarily limited to I mean, you could have a one hour
soundbite if you wanted to. So, anyway,
FYI. And then I wanted to ask you, Dave, yes. Your thoughts on
what tomorrow will undoubtedly be a continuation of the
previous Saturday's conversation about comments. And and I mean,
because now it's kind of comments, activity, pub
activity, Bob, and then all the things that can do. There's, you
know, there's many different opinions that were voice and I
love all the opinions. It feels like we're kind of stagnating
because of just, you know, someone's got to do something or
implement something and I'm pretty sure what's going to
happen as well. Martin is going to do something. Yeah. So I was
just curious where your thoughts are? You know,
no judgment. No judge.
Yeah. No, I'm just letting them have. I'm just, I'm just letting
him do that. Well, that's the same thing.
Yeah, you guys figure it out. But it'd be great if we could do
it.
Yeah, I just see us as sort of a an ancillary, like, we'll just
jump on board with whatever they think is, is the right way to
go. Right? Because that really don't have I mean, to me, that's
an app centric feature. I don't even think that.
But the index is being discussed continuously is one of the
solutions to create the base record of the base post. And,
you know, there's a lot of that talk going on. Well, I
would love to be able to show them on the index connected to
each podcast page. That would be cool. Do you know about this,
Eric? Do you know about the activity pub stuff?
No, I haven't. I mean, I've I haven't dug into
it, you know, activity pub at all. And I like how that okay,
no, yeah. So basically, they're trying to figure out how to have
a distributed community, you know, like chat thing that's
attached to a podcast. So that you know what, one beat up
somebody comment on a podcast or chat in a column on a podcast
over here on pod friend, and then it shows up in pod Bert. Or
we know that that kind of thing. And that's all in basically
federated just like, like a mastodon. And that's, I would
love to be able to show that and like, just sort of be a member
of that thing. And be a participant in federate. But, to
me, it all really originates in the app. So I would prefer that
they, you know, sort of figure out what the best solution is.
And then we just kind of participate where we, where it
makes sense. Because I don't I mean, I've got, honestly, I've
got a backlog of stuff I need to research anyway. And it's just
too much I can't, you know, I can't even I can't stick
activity pub in my brain right now. There's none of room.
That's kind of where I'm at. where, you know, I saw it kind
of floating around. I just haven't I don't have the
bandwidth at the moment to focus.
Yeah, it's like not meant to do research list is, you know, the,
like the web, the web sub listing stuff from john Spurlock
the activity pub thing, pod paying. There's not trailers,
it's chat, candles, the channels in the namespace. And also,
there's like this premium subscription, public private key
thing that they're trying to talk about, it's just too much.
So I have no I'm just sort of like mentally the just staying
at a distance when the activity pub thing but I hope I hope they
figure something out. Because I mean, I'd love to just, I'd love
to plug into it. I just feel like it needs to originate in
the apps though, because they're the ones where we don't want to
put a thing on our website. So I think they need to do that.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'd be in the same I mean, what it just at the moment they're
gonna have to run with it because we've got a few other
things in the fire. So
phase three, phase three, the namespace will be will be a big
push in May. Because will we really want I would really like
to get trailers out the door. And was the other one there's
trade there's trailers, recommendations, I don't think
is going to make it out the door this time. It's just too big of
a thing. We're we've got to talk about that. More. This
definitely put it high on the next list because it's a great
idea. I think it is, too. Yeah. Hold on it. What Hey, what
the hell?
What the Hell yeah. Yeah, crank this.
Time first. namespace.
See what is?
Where's the namespace?
Yeah, what are we what are we? What are we doing? What are what
the where are we at? What's the and I just want to thank
Benjamin Bellamy, Moshe Bellamy, my bellami mobile. I mean, I
should say, I know you're thinking of me, man. I really
can't wait to use Casta pod so I can be implementing all of these
great new features. I'm a content creator, not a fighter.
I will make you so proud. I will author such beautiful content
with you cast the bud system.
This is a sense of French Thank you.
I've been working on it. Well, you know, I have never ever been
able to had the opportunity to work with anyone in France.
There's just it's like they did their own thing and I've never
encountered them in any kind of business. I've always wondered
why. And I love working with them. Especially these guys. Is
it Benjamin and is it PSE and Who?
Yes seen that's the way I'm saying it what a SSIN yeah yeah,
I think it's just me
you know the these are freedom fighters man now of course they
got money from the socialist French government but that's
great because because they're bringing it right to us I love
that they're bringing all their time and talent now but that I
mean that is it should almost be illegal for them to do that when
you think about it
what Americans
that's a legitimate way to fight the system though is
yes when the system I love I love it it to me that that's
like part of the partners arms, you know that they're really for
they are the resistance, but
they are the French Ron Swanson is what they are. They're
libertarians who take a job in government just to subvert it
from the inside out
what they didn't, they just took the money. They just wrote up
said here that we need this for this money is very important.
Boom,
even easier.
I love that. I love that anyway, I know it's hard. And I know
they're gonna get something up and running for me. And I can't
wait. That's all I just need to weekly reminder.
trailers and license license. That's that's the two that were
licenses. And and, and we should probably hear from Eric for
another minute or two about the license thing personally, I'll
give you my take first. I've always put all of my content
under Creative Commons. I've fought it in court and one
jurisprudence, I set jurisprudence for the Creative
Commons. A system you can look it up.
When you the first case on it.
Yes, I was the first to take a case to court in Dutch court.
And, and to have it acknowledged,
is anything you can talk about? Can you tell that story?
Yeah, magazine, took pictures off of my website and put them
on the cover of a gossip magazine. And I said, You can't
do that when it's my copyright that I and it says copyright
right there as Creative Commons non commercial. And they said
that you shared it on your blogs, because it's like, if I
share it on my blog, you can't just take that. And this, of
course, didn't get a lot of money for it. But more
importantly, if they ever did that again, then it's some crazy
amount of like, you know, 10,000 euros per copy per day. Like I'd
be a billionaire overnight or something. But that, but that
wasn't the point. The point was, was to prove that it was valid,
that you can have your own copyright independent of
copyright organizations. And that stood up. And I really
liked that. Now, it's technically not the same as a
license. And I think that's where we get into the weeds. And
I'd like to not get I'd like to put parameters around this
particular tag. So we don't just have endless conversations about
what works, what doesn't what it is. Eric, we're gonna be looking
to you for some guidance on this, I think.
Yeah. Well, I mean, it kind of came up with certain apps that,
you know, how do we I guess, what are the you know, I want
the license tag, because it would be nice if the podcaster
or the producing the feed that the feed had some sort of,
here's the here's where here's the terms, I'm releasing this
under the same way you posted on your blog, it's the same thing
with the RSS feed newbie, nice if we had that in house, you
know, record of that,
right? Well, as long as we can, as long as we can get to the
what it is quickly, or what needs to what, because you know,
everyone has a different system a different idea. And that's
what I'm worried about. It's like, ah, please, no, they
put the, they can put the CAG in their feed, I mean, you can put
it in there as that is part of the namespace tags of what the,
you know, the Creative Commons, and you can put that in, and
that's all we need. And we can then parse it as part of the
feed. And that's it. That's the simplest way to do it. And if
you don't want to do it, then you don't do okay. And
it doesn't matter what it is. You could serve, I would just
put my creative commons license in there.
Yeah, you're just saying here's the here's the license. I'm
putting I'm doing this feed under right here. So at least we
know the ground rules like what I'm allowed to do with the
content that you're serving. Okay, good done. Next tag.
But what does that mean, though? I mean, like, what does it mean
if I, okay, let's say that I'm listening to Scott Horton, Scott
Horton show and he puts in a a license in his feed. That is,
let's just say some creative commons for Cheryl. I don't know
that I know what they are share, like, thing, right? Um, what
does that mean for the index? I mean, is that up Does that
license apply to us at that point?
I don't see it again, this gets into where we need to talk to
the attorneys on copyright and all that because it would be
attorneys.
I don't like this. I don't like this.
Yeah. I don't like this direction of this conversation.
Bad turn.
No, it's it's, it's, it's in a lot of ways. It's not. For us,
it's for the apps, who are just, you know, who are serving this
content. And we're, we're serving content,
we're serving content on our homepage we're serving content
was there's no difference. There's no difference there.
What if we just
lay that license? If we detect a license? What if we just display
it to the to the end user like, okay, here, we found this
license, here's the license, like a badge on the site. If we
just go along?
I don't even know if it has to go that far. I just think it has
to be available if we have it if they've given it to us. But
who's driving?
Is this your tag? Eric? Is this all you or is this coming from
somewhere else? Because I thought it came from somewhere
else?
I'm not driving somewhere else? I
think it came from Benjamin Bellamy.
Okay.
I know. I just want to I just want to make sure we track it.
Yeah.
Okay, here's an idea. we approve the tag, put it in phase three.
And then we ignore it and act like it doesn't exist. Yeah.
Like, that was good.
That's that's a great strategy. I However, what I would do as I
would put the same thing I bake into my mp3 file. Let me see if
I can actually bring it up here while it's running. Yeah, I
have.
Where is it here?
I'm sorry, I
got a license in the in the id 310. Yeah,
bake it into the ID three tag in its Creative Commons, something
to basically it's Creative Commons, whatever the tag on
that CC, and then there's a URL. So be that's what it would be.
That would be your pair. It's the it's this license. And
here's the URL to it. Right? And I would use that I would put
that in there. I mean, I don't know what good It does. But I
could, if I wanted to, I guess I, here's how I might use it.
Hey, I don't want to be your crappy site that that is
offering me a homepage for my for my content, take it off. And
here's my here's my license, that's and I can change the
license if I want to make you take it off, you know, or I
don't want you to do it that way. Or what you know, is
different levels of license you can put in there. I don't want
an ad next to it. Like now it's like a non commercial. So you
can't do that. That's when that's when it's handy. Just so
you have a stick behind the door, I think
Well, I think that's part of the the idea of doing the admin so
that if someone doesn't want their feed removed from the
index, they can just go in and you know,
yes, filter it when you remove your feed from the index, your
account disappears at the same time.
I don't like I don't like creating things that make that
give people the power to tell me what to do. So I don't like
giving them away to opt out if they want to opt out. I don't
think anyone's gonna do it. Is that petty? Wait a minute,
giving people power and expecting them to be disciplined
about it? completely insane. Yeah. Okay.
There's a couple of ISOs here that I don't even know what they
are anymore.
Okay. I'm gonna go through them. I'm gonna go through
sexual sorcery. What is that?
Okay, Dave. I
don't know what podcasts you're listening to. But that's
our bell. That's our bell.
I got the job.
Say aliens. Oh, it's aliens. Pretty good.
I love my love Zack.
Okay, that's the best one. That's the best one. I love my
love sacks. Why
love My love sack,
brother. That's end of show right here. Okay, I don't know
where
I got this.
I don't want to know.
I do it so you don't have 99 fifths calm.
I still got to figure out what that idea was about. Don't do
it.
The past is an old chapter of your life if
you were young, my dad, my Amsterdam days.
The way the way this projects going, we might need that domain
name so
don't mind Eric.
I'm waiting on the porn guys to show up.
You know, when they do show up, you know, you know satoshis be
flowing baby. tell you that and think about how cool it could
be. You can have your value block split for the actor, the
actress for the fluffer for the stunt double.
For the floor cleaner.
They'd only stream sets for three minutes.
Is it once in one minutes? 30 seconds
per minute.
I think we've had quite enough I'm going to wrap up this board
meeting Let's leave on a Hi, Eric Thank you very much. It's
good to hear your voice and I'm sure we'll be hearing you on on
the podcast more in the future. And he is of course Eric at
podcast index dot social. How that was very funny. Dave,
anything for you as we wrap this up for today? Yeah, I
just need a Kleenex to wet the tears.
Alright, everybody, please remember it is a value for value
project, go to podcast index.org. Scroll down to the
bottom we have a big red Donate button and we should have a
proper BTC QR code. All kinds of cool stuff coming you You are
now listening to the only three people who are doing anything on
this end of it. Everybody else? Well, you're here in the
boardroom. We appreciate you for showing up. Do it again on
Friday.
Please join us
for podcasting.
2.0 Take care everybody. Bye bye.
I've been listening to podcasting. Oh, visit
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love my love