podcasting 2.0 for March 19 2021, Episode 29 where the
castaways
always searching for some kind of tie in before the show is
difficult. Friday afternoon once again Time for a board meeting,
podcasting 2.0 and discuss the week's developments podcast
index.org I'm Adam Curry in Austin, Texas hand in Alabama.
The Nester of the namespace my friend on the other end, Dav
Jones
castaways, I see what you did. Yeah.
Know, I know.
What can I say? I made it through the week. And I'm not
dead. I mean that the universe tried to kill me this week.
Everything man you had corporate tax day, which is a big deal for
you, I think.
Yeah. And death in the family. As calcium kind of stomach
virus. No, no, like, halfway through the week. Yeah, like,
half of my posts on the mastodon were from the john. I you know,
there must have been when your sequel dump somehow you you got
some kind of sympathy, sympathy thing going on there with the
code. You should watch that but David, it's
not very healthy. It's like, it was like the the birth sympathy
or pregnancies. Yeah.
Sympathy. contractions, sympathy sympathy. Sympathy dumps.
Exactly.
Speaking of dogs, I was I've finished up something right.
Before right before the show here.
Okay. Seriously, we do we need to know about your dump before
the show.
That was such a smooth segue that we did aid it didn't even
come across. Now actually put some stuff into our some new a
new field into the into our nightly database dump.
Yeah. Which is the enclosure URL of the most recent episode, I
think. Yeah,
that's right. Yeah, I just did that like literally like an hour
ago.
Now what? Who, who benefits from that? Just so I understand.
I think everybody can benefit. But the person who brought it
up, they said they wanted it was James Cridland. And the reason
he wanted it was because he wanted a way to compare. Well, a
way to find out who did from one host to another,
right. And also, I guess this whole thing with redirect URLs
that's been going on?
Well, yeah, that's another thing that can be gleaned out of it
true. Yeah. I think like if you have the last. So this is what
happens. Sometimes, somebody will use a host to host their
mp3, but they'll self host the feed somewhere else, right? So
you really don't know like your, you can be self hosted with your
feed on like powerpress cast a pod. But then you could have
your mp3 is because of bandwidth. You can have your mp3
enclosures up with Lipson or blueberry brussel sprouts like
that. Right. And so I think it's gives you another way just
because just because the feed didn't change doesn't mean the
host didn't change. And so that gives you another comparison
route.
Okay, now Oh, okay. Oh, good. I
think it can, I think it could be useful for other stuff too,
like, we were talking about on the mastodon where you have the
ability now to, to do some checking. So now you have a big
dump of all the feeds and the enclosures and this and now you
can do things like check for cores, access on the feed and
the enclosures and see if some of them are out.
You know, this is such a such a hassle. This course is just a
nightmare,
huh? Now, it's important though, like so?
I don't think but this seems to be no universal. Kind of like,
okay, here's my node ID which I approve it from now on forever.
That would be great. That's how I that's what I'm looking for.
It's like everyone is seems like everyone has different ideas and
how to implement it. But really, it's the podcaster that should
do it differently. But then, I mean, I even saw that you have
to ask void zero about something with the podcasting 2.0 feed.
What are we doing wrong with horse? What do I do wrong now?
I'm sad.
Yeah. You're the the all the feeds for us a nogen mo effects
peace, peace, PC 20. They're all none of them are cores, like
they don't allow access, but for people who may not understand
this, it what cross core stands for cross origin resource
sharing. So the idea there is so in the browser. The one thing
that is sacrosanct is same origin. So for in order for
JavaScript To execute in the browser, the browser has to have
loaded a resource that is from that server, that's or from that
domain. Right. Okay. So the origin domain is considered the
only thing that can execute JavaScript. communicate with
other resource now
that's okay. I understand the hijack issues. Yes. Okay,
good. So if you don't if you have to, if you just willy nilly
open up your pores and don't think about it, well, you could
end up allowing what's called cross site request forgeries,
and things like that were cut where JavaScript in one site is
executing code in another site. So that's, you're screwed.
I think that's a must be illegal in many states.
Yes, it is in Alabama.
masca bitch. In Texas.
For real Yeah, we. Well, I've got a clip.
Oh, lordy, Lordy. Oh,
she's gonna get clips here. Okay, this is completely
irrelevant. I see. I got a clip a memo
though. Me Ma. Yeah. So I called Mark marmi. Okay,
yeah, you want to give a little bit? Uh, yeah.
This is the governor of Alabama, Alabama.
Even with this positive news. I have been Dr. Harris and I both
convinced that we need to get past Easter. And hopefully allow
more Alabamians to get their first shot. Before we take a
step at some of the states have taken to remove the mask
altogether and lift up the restrictions. Folks, we're not
there yet, but goodness knows we're getting close. To bonafide
auto will include several changes that will ease up some
of our current restrictions, while keeping our mask already
in place for another five weeks, April 9. But let me be
abundantly clear. after April the ninth, I will not keep the
mask on in effect. Okay. And when we even even when we lift
the mask off, I will continue to wear my mask while I'm around
others and strongly urge my fellow citizens to use common
sense and do the same thing. There you go. That didn't stop.
I actually forgot what was in this. Because I've been carrying
this clip for a few weeks.
Well, what the one thing that's interesting is that she sounds
like that actor. This kind of small guy, old guy gray hair,
and he's always like the crazy gay uncle. I don't know.
She sounds like Foghorn Leghorn.
Do you remember willing Grace? Oh, no, you never watch willing
grace. Okay, nevermind. Sorry. It doesn't matter.
What that Okay, so that that accent is Old South? Oh, yeah,
it is. And that is pre priests. Whenever you hear somebody in
the south talking like that. They they either come from Old
South politics, or Old South money. That's you too, because
nobody talks like that in the state of Alabama. Except for
about there's only about 5% of our of Alabamians or Georgians
or Mississippians that sound like that where they live, where
they have the soft are on the end right? sound like it's
certainly Foghorn Leghorn.
And when you encounter one of these 5% do you go kick him in
the shins? Or or what are you supposed to do?
Now? Cuz, buddy go
Oh, okay.
No, they're usually they're usually in politics, Southern
politics, but that no, that's not ad. This is like say it's
completely off topic. But the she screwed this up so bad
because which the power of the mask mandate is the lifting of
the mandate? Yes, of course. Because Yeah, cuz then you can
say three
die. Yes. Freedom. Freedom.
Yes. Which you never you never want to say, okay, we're gonna
lift the mass mandate. But I encourage you to still wear one.
No, no,
that's wrong. That's that's what Adler said here in Texas in
Austin.
Yeah, that's a total screwup Just wait Just wait and lift it
when you can actually do it don't don't like you know half
acid like
Dave, don't get me started on this place. Sorry. Don't get
Don't get me started. Hey, chapters are going nuts. So I'm
seeing people tweet their smartwatches I think using
podcast addict where the chapter images chapter artists rotating
on their watch. overcast has not after implementing chapter
images, if you want to embed them into your file is now also
showing so showing chapter links with URLs. So even though he
didn't know Even though Yeah, even though he's doing it his
own way, we're driving innovation because clearly these
are features that his users want to.
Oh, yeah. That was a that was kind of an uproar with the
whole. him skipping?
Ah, yeah. Yeah, whatever. He reversed that. But But yeah,
that's that's for the ad guys to go figure out I'm not that
interested. But the fact that we're driving features in his in
his universe, I think is important. Well,
I think we can I think we're about to drop some more, because
that's one of the things that we're going to add. In Phase
Three, we need to talk about that. One, if you want to do
that, or gas. Yeah,
I'd like to do that with the guest. Okay, who is who is
patiently standing by. So?
Yeah, but we're gonna drive that some more. Because I mean, we
need to put some more stuff into the chapter spec. I love the
chapter spec because it's extensible. And we may get our
first extension this on this next go around
here. What's that gonna be?
location, we need to put the location tag.
Right, right, and can be an independent location tag for
each chapter mark.
Yeah, yeah. So you could tag each chapter for walking tours
and stuff like that.
Right. So that's the map guys who showed up. That was really
nice to see them. What are they called? The maps? Fm map.fm.
Yeah. FM. I love this. I love like, Hey, I'm a map guy. Got
anything for map guys?
Yes, we did. Why? Yes.
We do have Oh, this is nice, too. They have one of their
their podcasts where they have with podcasts. Oh, it's all is
all podcasts?
Yeah, I think it's a podcast.
Oh, okay. Discover great stories. Maps. FM helps you
discover great stories about the places we live the places we're
from, and the places we travel.
Yeah, I mean, like, Chapter stuff would be perfect.
No, it's outstanding. This is cool with this map. Zoom in. Can
I be the first in Austin?
Unlikely.
This is like geo tagging. Do you remember geo tagging?
Oh, hell yeah. Well, you know, I way back when I still had my I
river recorder. mp3 player. Yeah, it is old ran on us, I
think a single double A battery forever. I and I hooked it up to
a professional wireless lav microphone, which didn't even
have to be wireless. But it had some dynamics in there. The
combination with the with the I river was just fucking amazing.
I record in my airplane, everything with that thing. So I
do what I then called sights, sound seeing tours. And I but I
had it, it was stereo. So I would be walking. I think one of
the most memorable ones probably was Union Square San Francisco
at midnight, nothing but homeless people. And you know, I
was just talking to all of us seeing what was going on with
him. And others walk around. And then and it gave a really cool
Kind of, yeah. In a way virtual reality. If you just close your
eyes and just listen to it, you know, it was really nice. And
now theater of the mind is totally theater of the mind. So,
you know, being able to add some things to visualize that,
especially with location, I'm seeing how important searches is
has become. Really is it I think it really is a big way people
find stuff. Well,
I mean, how had a look, Alabama grist mill is right.
I mean, I know it sounds like Captain Obvious is yes.
Yes. had this idea that search officers Yeah.
It's just I look for the interactions, you know, how
people share podcasts, okay. And, you know, they go to their
Google or DuckDuckGo, which is a browser with a homepage set to,
you know, whichever search engine it is, and they just type
it in there. And they'll click around and I don't even know how
many people searched for it in a podcast app. And they probably
look for it online first and then or, I don't know, it
doesn't seem to be a straightforward thing. Most
people just tell someone else about it. And you find it
maybe I mean, does our search is it okay does it need to improve
like how does it suck? Do we need to make it better?
Sometimes I feel like I have to be very exact to get the match.
Yeah. So that part is very non you know, I use quant as my as
my search.
You have been through so many searches. No.
centralized search.
That was my favorite AC E.
Yeah, another what search engine gate no AC Why you see why oh my
god, I ran GAC instances. And it was really cool because the
results that would come up were so wildly different from
anything anywhere else. You know, a lot of German results.
Like Yeah, okay, this is Adam. I'm Google Search googling, I'm
searching myself.
Shit. Yeah,
I remember cuz that was the one that you could like hook in your
own your like your own stuff. So it would index other things
besides just the internet, I'm
sure. A little world I'm sure I tried to convince you to build
something like that with me at 1.0
Well, you I mean, I had an AC server connected to your C.
rating, we're federating AC servers. Okay. Alright. boomers,
shut up and move on with podcasting. 2.0. Before we get
to our guest, cuz I think that this kind of falls into we got
to do some hot namespace talk. We didn't have it last show a
lot of complaints.
No, yeah. A
lot of complaints. Yeah. The cancel cannon is coming. coming
for Patreon. And for and for podcast advertisers. Oh, yeah.
So you actually have that article I'm having in front of
me. And was it the New York Times? Talking about a variety?
variety? Okay, there's your Hollywood insider magazine. So
they're putting together a what's it called the podcast
Advisory Committee.
You're gonna tell me how this works. Because I bailed out on
this article, like two paragraphs. And because I
thought this is this is Adams turf, says the media roundtable
of organizations that aims to promote civility and stronger
dialogue in media.
Yeah. Okay.
So I'll explain what this is. So the big advertisers, who really
can't be bothered with, they just want to report and how much
did I get return on investment for my money. And someone can
always say half of it worked. We just can't tell you which half
that's the old joke. But, but the agency sits in the middle,
and they are the buyers and they do these placements. And
historically, these have been very young people to very shit
paying job. And you actually make a, you get a lot of
incentives from the media networks, with, you know, Knicks
tickets and stuff like that. So this, you know, there's a lot
of, and then just open about it, you know, it's like, yeah, I'll
place an order with him. So it's all kind of loosey goosey.
And it's the brown shoes, guys. You talk about?
No, no, the brown shoe guys and gals are the ones that go out on
the road and sell hard for like a, you know, $100,000 contract.
You know, that's, that's around you. And you got to have
polished as brown shoes to do that job. Yeah, no. So these are
just media buyers who sit in the cube, and any of them just kind
of working through the spreadsheets and doing the
numbers and trying to get some ROI. And they have a manager,
but no one really cares about them that much in my experience.
And so now that we know, podcasting is a problem it,
everyone wants to try and capture it, everybody wants to
have their hand on it. And the content thought police don't
like it. We've talked about the articles, Hey, who's moderating
that shit over there. And it's really to protect big brands,
who want nothing unsafe near their content. So the the this
Roundtable, who, of course, are experts in all of these
podcasts, and will have listened to every single second of every
single one of them knowing exactly which one is
problematic. They'll make a list. And that list will be
places that you don't necessarily want to advertise on
because it could be problematic, or triggering, or anything like
that now have a scale. It's like the Southern Poverty Law Center,
they're going to have charts and they'll publish reports, it's
Roundtable, they will accomplish nothing, the only be
destructive. And I think it's partially, just to I won't even
say it's political, I'd say it's just to, they just can't fucking
stand it. They want control over this wild west. Like this. It's
too good, you know, and look, they're bumbling around, they
clearly can't make any money out of this thing. It's only worth a
billion dollars. Hey, we'll come in, we'll shore that shit up.
And we'll make it great for advertising. That's what's going
on here.
That's interesting. Because I was looking at this Magellan top
15 advertisers in February of 2020 when I printed this out, so
if you add it all up their top 15 is like 28 million. So that's
about 340 million annually from these top. So you have about a
third of the total revenue comes from 15 advertisers, yeah,
annually. That's not very broad. It's not broad and the so but if
you dig down a little deeper and look at which ones of these are
just kind of VC, so better helps. recruiter Hello, Fresh
Express VPN
now those are all really call to action ads. So it involves you
remembering the code typically toted Yeah, different type of,
of budget, different type of deal. And there is some
performance based on, on on what's happening. Because that's
because I mean, this is deja vu had the same conversations the
same bullshit, brand safe content. We need to have codes
to really know that people are listening and not just
downloading and not listening.
Oh,
damn shit. This is why we're here. This is why we're here.
What happens when the VA when these VC what companies flip
like betterhelp? That's like a I think that's like a mental
health thing.
The advertisers, these are
the advertisers. Yeah. Their help was number one at 4.3
million. Yeah,
you get an implosion like sock puppet, pets.com. Bubble.
I mean, if they if they keep that up, they've been the top
they've been the top advertisers not three months.
What I need to know is Verizon advertising is at&t advertising
is Pfizer advertising. That's what I need to know. Is BMW
advertising is GM advertising. Are they on the list? Well,
I mean, you got you got Geico progressive NBC? No, no, I'm
talking about America on
Thursday, so I'm talking capital arm, pharma. Okay, they got
financials? IBM?
No, there's no pharma on this list at all. Look,
I'm going to tell you what the end, what always winds up
happening. I'm just gonna say right now, when you have a
monetization system, is you always wind up making content
for the advertiser. And, and where typically winds up with
podcast networks. And you're already seeing this at Spotify,
is they're doing podcasts. On spec, they're doing they're
doing basically native advertising. For the big
advertisers, I will do a series about you know, building,
putting together IKEA furniture, IKEA. You know, we'll do a
podcast about that. And I've been down that road. That's what
always winds up. What always winds up happening.
Yeah, it's annoying. If these VC if these, like so much of this
list at the top is top heavy with VC backed companies, those
things can implode so fast. If if the like, there's 4.3 million
from betterhelp 1.8, from ziprecruiter, 1.8, from
hellofresh and 1.7. From ExpressVPN. If those things
vanished within a couple of months, I mean, that's like 50
million in revenue gone annually. Like packages
evaporate. I don't think I mean, I said very,
very, very small. It's very, very small. A billion dollars is
nothing in 17 years. 18 years. It's nothing.
It's not what what one pharma company probably does that.
We're gonna run a billion dollars a year in satoshis to
podcast ecosystem
match based based on how much thanks was robbed the chat was
rockin this week. Holy
shit, that was crazy. is outrageous. I'd sent you the
chart right of the I mean, we've already done 13,000 transactions
30 days trailing, which means the podcast index has been
involved in 13,000 transactions. That's that's pretty this.
We're, that's on the way up.
Well, it's me. Usually I wake up in the morning, unless Fink's
chat has the little badge on it that says you have any new
messages or in the trouble? Oh,
I had to get a new app. Mine crashed. There were too many
messages. Really? Yeah. What
did I mean I woke up, I guess it was Thursday morning. And I
usually it's like, 2815 to 20. I woke up and it was 400. And I
was like,
Marty in the head, Paul, on that. Tales from the Crypt.
Yeah, I mean, it was it went to the next sort of the next level.
Oh, yeah. A couple of days ago.
Now. It's and we'll also, you know, the Sphinx guys have
figured out that there's still some growing pains, but they
figured out their node provisioning. So that's that's
rockin Yeah. Marty's coming to Austin.
Is he is moving there.
Now. He says a pilgrimage with his smoking hot wife. I said,
Oh, good. I'll introduce you to my smoking hot wife. We'll go
out to dinner.
Yeah, that'd be nice. Yeah. So where's he where's he lives in
California? Gosh, I
want to say he lives I don't know. I really, I think he lives
in some like between us. 67 and use 68 on the on the UHF dial. I
was listening that space in between those two, between home
shopping your local home shopping and a Bible guy. You
know, that's that's one of those men.
Yet, that's one thing you'll need more of an Austin is more
people.
So really. So just hooking into that then I want to get to our
guests. This bubble graph that Martin marnix is made. Yeah. Oh
my god. I mean, that's beautiful. Now, if you look at
this, and if you haven't seen that, put a link in the show
notes. When you see this graph, it represents for the first
time, you know, people say, what is podcasting, this is a
visualization of the value flow of the podcast eco system. I
mean, it is, to me, it is absolutely a thing of beauty. In
the way you can see the connections and who's routed to
who this is going to be that somehow this, this visualization
of what's going on is going to be important in the future. I'm
not quite sure why. But it feels like you almost want to I want
to surf those nodes. You know, like, Here I am on a on a
surfing like, oh, I've got a channel, Oh, I got a fat ass
channel over here, what's connected to this. I mean, this
may be how you can discover podcasts, based upon proximity
to nodes, you know, I'm, I'm trying to get my swings relayed
to which is working now I'm trying to get it is supposed to
be able to create the virtual nodes. So I can just invite a
whole bunch of people and they can use the the Sphinx chat app
does I haven't gotten that working yet. But I can. So if
you're connected to one of these, like Uncle Jim nodes with
1000s of buddies hanging off of it, you're all kind of using one
lmd even though you have your own keys, that's the whole idea
of this. We've talked about we talked about in the last show
with Paul and Evan, that you might surf this this bubble
graph is that oh, this is a community over here. No, that
could be a tribe it can be a node, people are hanging off a
node you're like oh, who's here you know and and maybe that's
where you find you may it's like the ultimate clubhouse yet
they're also feeds for, for they're all podcasts related,
which is very, it's very important how Pete This is what
share my opml was always supposed to be remembered, but
it never really paid. It was just, you couldn't This to me is
the visualization. So now if I can see if I would be able to
see your breeze node, I'm just in like why wouldn't I? I don't
know if that's even possible. I'm just saying it let's say
you're you know as a standalone podcast app then I and maybe you
would let me see your connection. Well now I could see
your connections from your wallet to the other podcast
you're listening to and I can even see how much you value each
one of them here really values this podcast highly and look
where he valued it at this at this time stamp oh maybe listen
to that part as a clip.
Maybe we should maybe we should go ahead and bring in our guest
because I think this is
so right. And he's been very kind waiting. Waiting for us in
which thing now it's only six hours later than than us because
we somehow jumped to daylight savings time. Very happy to have
from Paris. from Paris, France. Benjamin Bellamy. He is the man
behind Casta pod. Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 Take a seat at
the board table.
Hi guys.
Hey guys, there
is
I have a beef with you right off the bat he
like like a true French man comes out swinging. Okay, what's
up?
I have a beef with you and it is that you? I heard on this
morning on pod land. That you were on there? Yesterday. What
is up with that? Why did you on Cridland podcast? Oh
no.
Yeah, that's true. I hope that you wouldn't have listened to it
yet. Ah, man.
That's a rookie mistake for a guest buddy. I'll
tell you. No, I skipped it. I skipped the whole I skipped the
whole thing eluded
me to I wanted to go in fresh. Absolutely.
Yeah. And I don't want to I don't want Cridland infecting my
mind.
So Benjamin, first of all, How'd that go? that interview with pod
land wasn't fun.
I don't know if we couldn't say it was fun. It was really
interesting. Actually, it was not we've Gen script and it was
with Sam city.
Oh yeah, Sam Of course. Yeah.
We're gonna have a couple weeks. As you might have guessed, they
are really interesting. In the podcast recommendation tag that
I suggested, I think it was last week.
Yes, well,
eventually, we talked about many, many things about what we
do in the company that my partners and I started to build
two years ago.
And this is what I want to get into. We're gonna we're gonna do
some some name some hot namespace talk with you. Cuz,
you know, you're French, so. But I'd like to understand a little
bit about your background. And, you know, so I'm familiar with
Casta pod, which is the I would say the premier self hosting
solution. And I mean, it's it's different from WordPress, but
you know, then we'll get into the details of it.
And, by the way, I'm not the only one behind it. We are
working hard on it. Yes.
Is that pod Libra? Is that the organization that you and your
partner have? Yep.
pod Libra is kind of a brand, where we are putting every open
source solution that we're building.
Got your cast, which I thought was very interesting.
Yeah, exactly. But everything is hosted by the same company,
which is called ad ohyes. Which means to to the IRS in Latin.
Wow. Okay. Very nice. And actually, currently, I'm working
on castparts, but not full time. And yes, in the re, is also
working on it. And he's much better developer than I am. I'm
not your real developer, right. every
developer I speak to says that now that guy's much better than
me. And it's much better than me. I'm no good.
Yeah, but I'm no good. And I'm old. Well, this is
a crummy developer, who's old that.
Welcome home. Benjamin, you're here with the crummy developer,
old guys? Yes. Beautiful. So this is not this is purely an
open source project doesn't make money do you have value
donations is? Or how do you pay the rent? If you don't mind?
Yes.
So you talked about the gas? I didn't know that. You ever heard
of this? Yes. Very proud of it. And by the way, I'm a little
impressed and intimidated to be in a podcast with the birth
father.
Oh, please. No, that's very kind of you to say, but you are you
are a full fledged member here in the boardroom doing doing
important work, I am very important what you're doing. And
I
don't think I'm worthy, but
the important part time CEO.
Right.
So in the beginning, we were working on the gas, because our
company which is selling contextual monetization
solutions for podcasters. We, we hear that Apple was too powerful
and has a censorship, power on everything. So we, we sold that.
And an index that would be free from censorship would be very
soon necessary and mandatory for us to be able to work. And back
in 2019, we were at the podcast movement in Orlando with my
partner, and we started talking about this project to everyone.
And we got on the negative feedback.
Wow, really?
Yeah. But really interesting feedback. People were explaining
to us that either user would wouldn't see the point like
podcaster. That until you get kicked out. Yeah, you don't see
the added value.
Exactly. Now, let's just give you a trying to explain what der
cast is. Dave, have you seen this product? Dirk has never
even heard of it. Oh, so it's dude. It's on pod libra.org. And
so the idea is it's a podcast index, which is stored on the
blockchain. I'm just gonna cut straight to it. So and that's
it. So you can't be d platformed. But they they and I
just read through the description briefly. There is a
way to augment or change your entries I believe. It's not
necessarily All immutable Is that correct? Benjamin?
Yeah, yeah, it's a blockchain. So if you want to put a new
information on top of an older one, you can just blow it out.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The idea was to be able to write and to read
so that anyone could be able to read from the index and to write
into the index. Because right now with the apple podcasts
index, you need permission to read and you need permission to
write.
Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Well, so when you saw pod, the podcast,
index.org project come up. Is that is that you say, oh,
finally someone gets it? or How did you hear about us? What
happened there?
No, we first said, This guy stole our idea.
Fucking Americans goddamnit.
They took our palm free and call the french fries. Yeah, exactly.
I actually, we were thrilled that you you launch it because
we had to, to realize that we couldn't handle that project. We
were we weren't legitimate to do it. Other people have tried to
do it. But that failed. And we would have failed Of course.
Well, it's it's really? Yeah, it's a really good. It was
really good news, when we saw that. You, you did it for us?
And for free, because then we wouldn't have to pay for it?
Well, exactly. I mean, it's just, it's just value for value.
And you know, you I know you understand that concept. But
yes, I'll tell you that I'm personally at then I think Dave,
once he takes looked at it will be very interested in the
concept because, you know, one of the things that is on our on
our list is okay, how do we replicate this? How do we not
become the weakest? The weakest link in the chain? How do we how
do we distribute and decentralize the whole function?
Now? That's just going to take time? Because, I mean, it's when
you're literally building in your case, it would be like a
new blockchain, you know, and then you got to get some
consensus, and developers have to agree and, and I think Dave
Knight, like stuff that just kind of magically happens. Much
like my favorite, we don't like manage anything. That's that's
not really the point of this. And so far that that's, that's
been going really well. And what I love about your story, is, you
know, you are you're like us, me, you're radical. And and I
have a feeling that is that something typical for you, your
family? Is it? Is it just being French? I mean, is that is their
overall vibe of fuck the man. We've seen some of it on the
streets. But that's it. I'm really I love that I'm impressed
with this vigor about getting away from the central
centralized corporate corporate interest.
I don't think we're radical at all. On the contrary, we are
very pragmatic. Yes. Business and doing business, we pry your
true competition. And if there is no competition, either, it
means that there was no market server from the beginning, or
that someone has a monopoly, which is messing up with
everything. So it of course, there's a value issue here. And
we didn't start working on open source last year. But the the,
the the first motivation that drove us to do that was
business. It's good for business, open sources is a good
thing for business. It is I so agree with you, I we look at
this project, and I've done lots of startups, and I've done
venture capital private financing, I've taken the
company public, this is by far the most rewarding, most fun
I've ever had. I mean, and and if it works out, yeah, we'll be
able to participate in some of the upside. But what we're
doing, I think, for the ecosystem and how that's come
together, I can't I can't speak on your behalf day, but this is
like a dream gig.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, a lot. Oh, It's lots of fun. I agree with that.
100% I mean, open source allows you to grow beyond your own
capacity. Yeah, that's only good for a project. I mean, you can't
otherwise, like literally I would have to be doing
everything. And number one, I can't. And I don't think a team
you know your size can either, Benjamin, but then beyond that.
There's things I don't know. I mean, we have so many people
that are contributed indeed the one thing you like we didn't
even talk about this last week was Stephen King. I just
completely redesigned our entire documentation. We mentioned it
briefly. eautiful Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. And he, I mean,
he just took that upon himself because he's a documentation
guy. That's sort of what he does for his main. But here,
here's the main one. So he did that. And then I think there was
Martin, I think he said, when I was shit, I the older one wasn't
broken, I liked it the way it is, but okay. Now, in a
corporate environment, there would have been a meeting with
had a meeting notes, a follow up, and some managers gonna have
to come in and say, Good focus group, black box, white box, a B
testing, and then shit never gets done. Yep. To Benjamin cast
a pod, which I think is an essential part of the ecosystem.
So when we decided that the forecast would stay in a drawer
for quite a long time, we opened the second roller and there was
just a wish list in that one. And it was cast apart because we
thought that actually, when we started working on podcasts, we
started to host a few ones we chose but cash generator from A
to B tele show from RSS. Yeah. Because it's, it's open source,
PHP, very easy, no database. And very soon we we were blocked
because we couldn't enter like season numbers. And when we
needed a modern version for that, so we we just wrote down
the wish list. And weeks after weeks, months, after months,
that wish list became so good looking, that we started talking
about it around us. And eventually, we we sent it to nl
net, which is
I remember those guys, that's old school
Grumman Netherlands. Yeah. Old school group. Sure. And they,
they work on the MG zero funds, rents from the,
from Europe.
And they accepted our project. So you got accepted. He got a
grant for this. Yeah. Grant.
That's great. I love
that. Fantastic.
So the grant is not paying for everything that we're doing on
that. But the thing is, first, we had confirmation that this
was really something useful, that it's meant something not
just for us, right. And then they're, they're behaving as a
client. But okay, and who will not be using the product he's
buying? So
this government is a government grant, or is this a private a
private foundation?
No, no, it's so good. It's more like it's government's. It's the
Europe. Yes, your long
leave the EU, we're gonna fund this great idea and not use it
now. Right?
It's a cascading fund. So Europe, give them the grant so
that they're redistributed, making it rain. So they were
very picky about everything that we we propose, but in a very
good way. They asked us to change many things. And but
everything they asked, made so much sense,
what was their main focus was their main focus, because this
is very interesting. You know, this is, in essence, a podcast
content management system that you can self host. And we'll get
to the details of it. I'm sorry.
First, I think the thing that they liked the most about our
project and our approach was the fact that we we wanted to, to
make together podcast and diverse.
Right?
That's not in there yet. No, no,
but yeah, he's under the hood there.
Okay. It's coming. It's a matter of days.
Because you're because you're working on activity pub, right.
Sorry. Yeah. On the activity posts. Yeah, actually, it's
not me. It's yesin. Okay, yeah, but that's come How do
I spell Yes. Saenz name
why a si and E. Okay. So,
you were telling about what, what what they like very much
What the?
Yeah, and they were already concerned about privacy issues.
Like for instance, at the beginning, we wanted to, to
embed or already you know, the NPR Yeah, the preposition to.
Yeah, the tracking, tracking. Yeah.
Analytics. And they, they dug very deep into into that. And
they didn't ask us not to put that they gave us a solution so
that it would be GDPR compliant. Legal solution. Yeah. technical
solution so that we would be GDPR compliant? No, man,
you're really on the inside you getting all the tricks and tips
from the Yeah, and the gang. Nice. So have you Deaf to
deliver regular reports? And is there a final, final phase to
this where it's completed and the grant is fulfilled? Or when
you hopefully go back to ask for more?
So the way you get paid? That is the question is, you have to
publish the code. So you just provide a get URL. And that's
it.
Oh, man, I was ready to come to come to Paris and present with
you like, Hey, everybody, Bonjour. She will tell Adam
leappad further, the pod pair, just so you know.
I'm counting here. We got like 20 GitHub repos. I mean, we
could really
well, this is so it's real, that's really interesting is
very forward looking at and congratulations on. on doing
that. I've done a couple of things with the with government.
And I always found that quite kind of achy. After a while, I'd
see what's going on over there. I'm like, God, man, I really
don't want to have anything to do with this. But you seem to be
navigating that very well.
Well, the thing is it. This is my first time working with them.
I heard some some guy, Ludovic dubis, who is working for x
wiki. I don't know if you know that. His solution is named
crypt pad. And it's end to end encryption. Notepad. Oh, cool.
It's, it's really cool. And he had been working with an L net.
So we talked together. And he explained to me how it works.
And and then everything went pretty straightforward. You, you
just send the project you want to build, and then they come
back with 2000 questions, which are really, really relevant.
Like they really try to understand how it's going to
work. They're really good question like, question. You
say, Oh, yeah, that that's a good question. I haven't thought
of that.
That's different than it, isn't it? Oh, my God, the bureaucracy
here. Yeah, you send in something. And then you wait six
months, and you get some form letters that don't actually say,
not everything works that way. Sure. And, and then you agree to
a moo, moo, memo or memorandum of understanding and
love those in Europe, we're going to give not really going
to give you a contract wouldn't give you like, like a pre
contract. It's kind of like third base, and third base?
Well, I've got, I want to ask you about this. If we can veer
off here for a second, I want to ask you about the podcast
recommendation spec. Because I think the it's like once you
read through it, and once I understood it, once I understood
what you're trying to do, I can see its applicability
everywhere. Like every time I hear something, I'm like, okay,
that could be a podcast recommendation in point that can
be one that could be one that could be one. So like, I want
everybody, I'm just gonna give you my understanding of what
this is. And you can tell me where I'm wrong or how you a
tweak this. So basically, what you're the goal here would be to
take the power to take recommend recommendations or podcast
discovery, and put it back into and put it into the hands of
podcasters or hosts themselves, rather than the somehow some
other entity. So you're, like moving the control of
recommending things and discovery of things into where
the podcaster is really the primary focus. Is that fair?
Yeah. This is one part of what we have in mind when we when we
were sat down The thing is, right now when we talk about
recommendation, I don't know if you do, but I, that's the way I
think of it, I think of Netflix or Amazon, when you buy books.
Usually, what you see is people who saw that also like that, or
people who read that book also liked that book. Yeah, I think
it's kind of creepy. And most of time, it's not relevant. It's,
you're creating bubbles. And it's, it's not very good
recommendation. We've been working on recommendation
systems for decades. So that's something we think is missing.
And because podcasting is decentralized, by essence, it's,
it can be even more complicated. So what we need is a way to
create recommendation that are not based on the user profile,
but on the content that you're listening to. The content should
bring the recommendation, not the user. And this is something
that we do every day.
By telling people Hey, you should check this out.
Yeah, you're currently reading this or listening to this. So
this might be interesting also, but not because you, you went to
this website, and but this and read that and watch that video
on YouTube. Now,
it would be the if there would be the equivalent of the author
of the book you're reading to recommend other books? Exactly.
Yes, that's what that's the way I thought of it too, because you
have. So one of the things that I do as an MRI book is, is
perfect example. One of the things I always do and I'm
reading a book is, as the or an article is, as the author is, is
quoting other people from other books, um, I'm always writing it
down, so that I can go in either buy those other books, or for
some health research them. I did that this just this past week, I
was reading Glenn Greenwald article. And he mentioned some
other book, but that he said, was really good. And I went on
Amazon, after I finished the article and bought the book. So
like, in this regard, you could have a podcast, where they're
talking about certain things, and they're recommending other
things, other podcasts, but books, videos, all these kinds
of it's almost like the show notes. I
was gonna say recommendation, it ties into shownotes. It also
ties into chapters, in a way. Yeah,
it's
part of the same thing.
Yeah, I didn't try to hide that. It's inspired by what was
already done. But one side effect for that would be like
reading lists, or I don't know, a listening list. I know how
we'd call them. The way recommendation works, and it
does work right now is people who are manually doing reading
lists, like this week in France, slate, slate friends, they
started a podcast application with manual recommendation. And
that works. But if you want that to work on any platform, you
need to get it into the feed. Yeah, yeah. And so you need you
need a new tag and a new tag dedicated to recommendation.
Okay, hold
on a second. When you say tag we say balls, your bench. namespace
talk couldn't be any better than our Parisian friend.
That Okay, so I want I want to try to get this into phase
three. I really, I think,
I think it's genius.
Because I think that other so you could have in Tell me if
I'm, if I'm offending you by this, but not just the
podcasters. But you can also have the host, the hosting
companies could also insert recommendation tags.
I'll do I can see, I can see a million features. We know I
might want to have clips that I use on the show, you know,
somehow point to the original, you know this and it could be
automated even but it I think the point that Benjamin's making
is the recommendation is fucking beaut. I think that's it.
Instead of someone other people who read the book, get the
recommendation from the guy who wrote the book.
Yeah, that's,
that's so powerful. And it really it really is just
powerful. But really like that it's an it's such a small nuance
and thinking Really?
Yes, I'm looking through your, I'm looking through this, the
the examples. And the one this really cool is you can have as
part of the recommendation you can have embed a sound bite into
there so that you if you're recommending another podcast,
you can actually have a sound bite of that other shit. Really?
Yeah. Oh, wait, now could you make that bi directional, where
if I shoot off a recommendation, can it pull back a current sound
clip from that podcast?
Yeah, this it's got the enclosed got a reference to the enclosure
and the starting in the duration. Right.
But we're gonna saying is that it'd be cool if I could read the
other feed that I'm pointing to and bring in their starting
points. their their their sound clip? Their sound? Yeah, yeah.
To me make it connected.
That I don't know, we think we think big. I mean, that seems
like an API job to me.
Yeah.
We have to think about that. I'm just dreaming, fellas.
Yeah, this is this is such a beautiful because it you know,
that's really we spent a lot of time over the last couple of
weeks in Adam, you know, you rewrote your whole what is
podcasting 2.0 thing and which is is good. Henson and back to
you. But a marked it up I think is great. And that. I think that
one thing I'm noticing in when I kind of realized that when I was
reading through the podcast recommendation spec last week,
was that that's another aspect of podcasting. 2.0 is taking
control put moving the locus of control back into the, like,
closer to the source. Yeah, exactly. podcaster.
The podcaster makes the content the content beautifully flows
from their fabulous tool that creates their podcast that man
we've never, we have so much work to do on tools. And then it
comes into the into the these these new apps that are just
sitting there ports open going feed me some beautiful shit.
Like just give it to me, and we don't need anybody else.
How are you? How are you? how's this gonna bake into Casta pod?
What's what is it gonna look like?
Actually, I can see different ways exactly as, as we are
working now for the transcripts or the chapters. Because the
goal of cast upon is to, to make sure that the podcaster can do
whatever he wants to. So there are basically two kinds of
recommendation that we can think of think of. The first one is
manual. So like, the podcaster wants to recommend a specific
episode, maybe she's because he is talking about the subject
that he already mentioned, like two years ago, and on. He
remembers it, but no one else will. So he can manually select
a soundbite from an old episode are an hour or something from
another podcast. Or maybe he wants to share our audience with
a friend. So instead of saying in the middle of something, hey,
go listen to both of our podcast, he can add the link to
the other podcasts. So that you don't have to look for it. And
to say, Oh, where is that podcast I heard about you just
click on it. Nice. So and that's, I think that's quite
powerful. And that's just manual. Then, if you are I don't
know you are doing a podcast on let's say black holes and you
want to find any podcast talking about the same subject, you may
be using an external service that will be indexing and
looking for these for yourself. So you will embed a link which
will dynamically create the recommendations.
Nice.
Defend you and you can do both. You can do both because you can
have two links one which is manual and what which is
dynamic.
Yeah. Okay. So let's see here you can have at the channel or
the item level, and it can be you can have more than one. You
can have just as many batches of these as you want.
And then if you you want to make a living out of your podcast by
sharing urgence I don't know maybe some service will provide
that. you subscribe to it and you said this is my passion.
with gas, and I want to share audience with someone else
that I wanted to talk about this last week with Paul and Evan,
because I'd read, I'd read your spec. And I, and I was thinking
the whole time, I was like, Okay, I have tribes that listen
that I'm that I'm a part of on Sphinx chat. And there are other
related tribes there. That would just be a natural, it would be
such a natural fit for somebody like seeks to have an endpoint
for recommendations. So a tribe, you know, they can just like
they're not even hosting podcast or anything like that. But
instead, you could go out there and just pull a recommend like,
just pull a recommendation XML from the negative have an
endpoint that just serves you the recommendation XML for a
certain tribe.
And this is where we're coming up against some interesting
flows. Now, Dave, you and I have both seen the the forthcoming
breeze app, which is pretty much dedicated to, you know, the big
podcast button, and there's podcast player in there. And
which, by the way, I was delighted to find out that was
the code from the anytime player, which has been
podcasting 2.0. Member for, I was like, wow, that's that's
your code idea. But the features, so you know, they're
very focused on making. And it's obvious that that's what they're
working on. So with swings is just getting, I mean, they're
still just getting the plumbing working. So for them to start
putting resources towards stuff, it's just going to take them a
while. And it's kind of the inverse of what we have with
overall take hypercare or pod friend, I know they're working
on it is, you know, all the features implemented, everything
is is slick, and they're improving the user experience.
But yeah, they don't have the Lightning Experience. So I'm
hoping that somehow these worlds are going to come closer and
closer together. I know that Brees is going to put all their
code out there for everyone to strap on. Just strap on strap on
developers strap on Hey, strap on Willie,
that there may be a solution to that. Because it's not the first
time you're mentioning it. First, I must confess that I
have no clue how, how this works at the lightning stuff. I'm
currently installing it in the on my Raspberry Pi. But that's
how far I got.
You're doing the dirty work. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I feel dirty. That's
get get a big hard drive.
But eventually, I'm pretty sure that I won't make it. So what
that thing would work. What we need for this to work is to to
have different teams working on different stuff that are really,
really far away from each other, the lightning part and the
podcast part.
That's current situation is that?
Yeah. I don't know if that's good news. You You tell me. So
three months ago, we went back to an air net. And we suggested
that we propose to to build a podcast application, open source
GPL, v3 for iOS and Android. And that would aggregate the podcast
app and the fediverse. Bar.
Oh, nice.
That's, that's would be open source. So if someone wants to,
to integrate, and to add the lightning part on that, that
would be ways to do it. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
So you're talking about just you would be making just sort of a
skeleton app that brings these pieces together. It would be
open source so that somebody else could pick it up and and
begin to build out something?
No, no, no, no, it's not a skeleton. It's it's a full
fledged app, which we're gonna call probably cast about up.
You can compile it and put in the App Store basically. Right.
Yeah. So so it's going to be fruiter. Yeah, so it works on
both iOS and Android. Google Play Apple, Apple Store and F
droid and source code. Now, if so if you want to add features,
be my guess.
That that's cool as well. Cool. If Do you have any with
recommendations? I think you can. I was thinking, that
podcast guru and pod verse. This seems like, right in their
wheelhouse to me. Oh, because totally. I mean, that's, I don't
know, there's something that the it just feels right for that
sort of, because you have things like hyper catcher that, you
know, hit everybody. It's like, it's sort of what you're talking
about being a, I guess I'm just thinking about this for the
first time. So I'm a little stuttery on it. But it seems
like everybody has their thing that their focus, yeah, if each,
each application has a personality of its own, where
you can tell what the difference is, you can tell by looking at
it, what the developers first love was. And that remains, you
know, obviously, with pod versus clips, you know, with pod
friend, its ease of use and feature completeness, with hyper
catcher is is chat chapters and rethinking the UI, and having a
new new experience. And you can go on and on. And so like every,
every app has its own personality. Same with cast,
apod, and, and powerpress, and all these kind of things. So
it's like, they can all have pieces of the ecosystem
together. And so then you bring in, like what you're talking
about with a with an open source app, and everybody can
contribute, and you get something greater than, than the
hole. And you can have a people can contribute code. I mean,
that's what people have been doing with podcasting. With
podcast index. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't understand how
I didn't write, you know, what, 1% of what's on the website.
Now, that was all that's all been being done by other people.
And I'm glad that that did that. Didn't went that way, because it
wouldn't be as good if I'd done it all myself. It everybody else
has things they're good at. And I think it makes a stronger
product. If it's open, and everybody can contribute,
because everybody else brings their own flair to the table.
Well, so that would be you know, we're gonna pressure the breeze
guys to do that. Hey, breeze, guys. Racing breeze guys, go
over there and help us project out. So everybody can bake one
of these, they win no matter what the they got the back end.
So they're very happy. They want more, they want more people to
use their code.
Yeah, about the Cassiopeia app. We, I wouldn't call it a
skeleton. But definitely it's, it's a toolbox of framework so
that you can use it and reuse it. And for instance, because we
worked with nl net, there, we're very picky again. And I had very
specific questions and one of them that they were really
concerned about privacy. And when one thing, one thing that
they really care about is how secure are your data as a user,
and if you are listening to a podcast, who knows that you're
listening to it? And even before that, when you were looking for
REITs? Who knows what you're looking for? And they asked us
if it was possible to embed within the app, the index. So
that's when you are looking for a podcast? No one knows because
it's looking within a local index. So we said, Yeah,
probably we can download the podcast index index, or a part
of it, let's say on the French podcast or true crime podcast.
And then you can make an app that's specific for a specific
audience, either for a target language country, or for kids.
And and you have a system, that whole ecosystem that lives by
itself,
how about this bent? How about, you got that over there with the
Castor pod app. And then we have the index over here, we create
the the initial flow, and we get it to you through the blockchain
to get you started. And then and then you can just you could
literally, you know, use the blockchain only pick up the most
recent blocks for the updates. I mean, I can totally see how that
would work. Yeah,
well, I think it could work even over IP Fs two, because we Yeah,
like First, the first stage of delivering the database as a as
a massive dump is to do it as well. One big dump. And then,
but but the short, you know shortly in here in the future,
I'm going to split it up into smaller pieces. And there will
all be hashed. And so like, well, this this thing is going
to change and evolve. So that only the parts, you know,
there's let me you'll be able to easily just download piece the
pieces that you need to think in that Because ultimately, what
the, what the dumps are for is to create is to eventually
create distributed aggregators. So we need to split it in small
chunks, whether those are 1000 feeds per chunk or 10,000. Feeds
I don't know. But if we had that, you could download the
entire the entire thing as a sequel lite three database into
the app, initially, and then you could go and pick up the chunks
that changed in that could be delivered the lightened Adam
standard blockchain or over ipfs, or whatever they did,
dumps. They call them dumps big massive dumps.
Yeah, but even now with the dump, it works. Yeah, there's a
manual operation that you have to do you have to download the
dump. And then probably you have to query all the RSS feeds to
get some information. But that works. Like today.
Yeah. Well, that they hope that I hope that we can this the way
I see this going. It's like we're decentralizing stuff. But
we need to we need to do it in a way that it can't go. I don't
know what I'm trying to say here. What? What I'm, I think
what I'm hesitant about is going too fast. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And
that sounds weird. But like, when you it has to evolve in in
pieces, because you don't if you nobody's going to jump on board
with everybody, let's move podcasting to the blockchain. So
maybe, maybe that's where, ultimately we want to end up.
That's why this is an interesting bridge towards
putting those pieces that are necessary, onto the device or
the play the app itself, and then provide updates, but then,
you know, this is where I mean, I'm just going to be a broken
record about lightning. Because then you could, you know, it's
fair, you pay to get it in, you know, there's Yeah, there's,
there's all this all these these different parameters that become
a lot better than it's free, who gives a fuck? You know, the
minute you even if it's one Satoshi you're, you're more
careful. And, and then from there, once you're moving, the
elements of feeds around, or pointers to feeds or whatever it
is, and then all of a sudden, you know, you can do all kinds
of stuff. You know, me and my community connected all I can't
stay away from the bubble chart. It's, it's it's mind boggling.
And
we're hoping that the dump is see.
Hey, Ben, question for you. So I had my, my co founder and
partner, Dave Jones. He was a big man on campus like, Oh,
yeah, I'll install that caster pod for you. And I'm pretty sure
we got busy and other more important matters. I looked at
it now I've since I last looked at it, I've become a little more
familiar with cPanel. Should I attempt because I have kind of a
specific setup because I have existing hosting and I'm what
I'm most worried about, is transitioning to a new system.
And I really, really, really, I can't say it enough. Really like
what Casta pod has to offer because I want to be leading
with all the tags and I want the coolest shit and you seem to be
doing it in Casta pod because you really have no there's
nothing holding you back and I saw even now you can do freeform
tags if you don't have an interface for it. I really want
it but when I fuck something up on my feed, then it's like hell
breaks loose for weeks. Yeah, messes up everybody's player and
my emails filled and I feel like a heel. So what do you recommend
here?
I definitely not using cPanel. Okay. Because Castor pod was
designed to be easy to install and cheap to host and modern and
why am I failing, then?
You're not failing? We probably did. And probably because we are
still in alpha versions. So. Okay, the paint is not dry yet.
But what I'd like to do at your discretion. I don't mind. I
don't mind. I don't mind messing stuff up and fooling around and
trying to do stuff. You know, maybe not necessarily
immediately on the no agenda feed but podcasting 2.0 is is a
great playground for it. I can be your best tester. I really I
promise. You I will, I will help you make that product better. I
just need to help. I mean, since six months, and you know, Martin
made the RSS generator and it got me almost to where I needed
to be, but you know, we couldn't have him maintaining. And he's
he's working on his own project. So I need, I just need this one
thing, and then I'll put you in my value block for every feed
that I that I create, I will send you 5% of my of my cut.
When
we can host you for sure. That's because I know exactly how it
works. It takes me like, three minutes, really three minutes to
set up a cast about the new part. new podcast. I installed
one for Anita posh. Right? Yeah. So that so that she can test and
she had some feedback. We like the widget thing we implemented
like, two three weeks ago. She asked for it.
In the sharing widget player.
Yeah. This, this is something that we it was in our roadmap,
but like, push. Yeah. So we moved it. To that, because she
needed it. So what so what I have, but the thing is, we I
haven't installed one for you yet. Because I'm intimidated.
First. Okay. And we're still in alpha version, meaning some
stuff break and change. And I'm not confident to to host
something that podcasts that you will talk on, because probably
there will be a huge bandwidth consumption
for podcasting 2.0
Well, no, I mean, what what I see that's the thing is,
I have any downloads you get on this podcast. Oh, no.
And on this podcast, I don't know. Yeah, we have no idea. But
I have a specific situation where I have basically a bucket
and I throw everything into that buckets, the mp3 files, my feeds
my chapters. Oh, my transcripts, I mean, chapters come from a
different bucket. So I just need to be able to write to that
bucket with a feed that we initially have imported from the
old feed. And and then and then I'm good to go. You do not want
to be hosting my RSS or my mp3 and that that will crush you.
Yeah, understand?
Yes. That's what I'm saying. Is there a way that I mean, when
you're ready, when you feel when you feel is ready, I completely
respect that. It's alpha, and you don't want to
we need to be ready. Like when we actually as soon as
activitypub is up and running.
Yeah, cuz I want to tie this straight into the mastodon Oh,
here we
go. And, and we're, I'm still working with hyper capture,
David? Because, yeah, because I think that would make much sense
that you can create the podcast episode. And then hyper Castro
would deal with everything that you don't have anything to do.
So that's the chapter. The AI
the AI stuff. He has mean. Yeah.
So that it's automatic. Yeah, that's cool. Everything is
underneath. Just API calls. You don't have to deal with it
anymore. And that's very small, smaller feature to develop.
I like it. I like it a lot.
Yeah, the, you know, cast upon, I think it makes perfect sense
for a podcast, even if it's not ready. It makes perfect sense
for the podcasting. 2.0. Feed me because I mean, desktops. I
mean, we're gonna break stuff anyway. So yeah,
well, even that i want i want i want to know how many downloads
per week you're doing. But it will tell me this much. I get
afraid. And if it's not enough, then I'm going to bed right now.
Yes. Wow. Okay. You know, you know, America and France does
have a special relationship. You realize that right? Yeah. Very
unique relationship. You guys invented our political system.
So we give you full credit for that. We just have to learn how
to chop off their heads that we get. We didn't learn that from
you.
I'm not kidding. Yeah, but you forgot. You forgot yesterday.
Yeah, we don't do that anymore. No,
you guys. You guys were innovators. innovators in the
space of chopping heads. I think I think your, your smart guy,
Ben, I really love the thinking that you put into all of this. I
am, you know, and I, I, it's, I'm in a weird situation, you
know, we have all these great partners working on it with
hosting companies. And I'm like, why don't we all work together
on an IP Fs solution, you know, so it's only going to save them
money gives everyone a little more level playing field, and
you can make money on your actual features instead of
bullshit bandwidth, you know, and managing your curve and oh,
my God, we what business is unhappy that you get a
successful podcast? You know, and a lot of them are like, Oh,
shit, we got a really big one. Well, how we're going to offset
that. So if we could, if we could figure that, then it's
been figured out, if we could motivate and agree on some
things, I mean, which I see cast upon as being a driver of you
guys are perfect for that.
Thank you.
So what are you gonna? What are you gonna do it?
one thing at a time. We're still a small team or four of us
working in our company now. So we are Yeah, we started the
company. We're still working with investors. So
are you are you looking for investors?
Yeah, sure. We are.
Well, we, we contacted some and we still looking for new ones.
You know,
there's a lot of guys out there who have a lot of money that
they're looking to invest very good terms, as long as they can
put it into some Bitcoin related project. And you know, and this
is not banks, you know, it's very, you get into very simple
agreements with them. It's, it's quite I helped out another
company just by talking to an investor and the guide made some
money in real estate and put in a Bitcoin and he wants to invest
in some Bitcoin I specifically lightning related businesses. So
if you ever want to go that route, I mean, that can
certainly hit me up if you need anything happy to help.
Yeah, we're not much in the Bitcoin industry right now.
Right. But the lightning thing is something that could be in
your future. I'm just
yeah, I understand. I understand. So I work harder on
my Raspberry Pi.
I would suggest, you know, recipe Blitz.
Yeah, I saw that. But the thing is, I cannot find my Raspberry
Pi screen anymore. Yeah.
It's like I got
this new Raspberry Pi and like, Oh shit. I don't have a
keyboard. I can't fit a monitor into a USB. See what the hell
yeah, it's tough.
But
there's a retina that and what's the other one? Dave? The
the umbral
Umbro? Yeah, that seems to be a pretty cool install seems to be
a little simpler than raspy Blitz.
Yeah, that's my plan B.
Okay, yeah, I hear that's a really good one. Can you have a
few minutes? Benjamin just stick with us while we thank some
people for the value that they returned to us and then we can
wrap up after that. I have all night long. Whenever when a
Frenchman says that to you, you know, you're good to go. Ladies
and gentlemen. This is a value for value project, podcast
index, this show podcasting 2.0 it's all put together to create
as much value as possible. No advertising, corporate money, no
creepy investors of any kind. It's just the people producing
the whole project together. And all we ask is that you provide
us with whatever value is appropriate back to us time,
talent, treasure, and if you're sending us treasure and whatever
it is just make it a meaningful amount to you, whatever your
contribution making meaningful to you. And that's that has been
working very well for us. I think we're not six months. Six
months and we're we're we're moving fast. We are pushing
pushing it I didn't I didn't expect to be this far six months
into it. That was not my expectation.
Now we get we get now we'll talk about that in a minute.
Listening So
right off the bat then and Alberto are soco $100.
Watch
those guys. Thank you so much.
Hi, Adam and Dave are running out of things to say here. Good
thing. The donation speaks for itself. Yes, it does, guys. We
value what you do, why you do it and how you fostered a community
of great minds and talent. No sad puppy today.
No sad happy puppy.
Yes. Thanks. grss calm.
Fantastic. Thank you so much.
Yeah. I always appreciate it. Thank you guys. And Scott
Napier. No,
I recognize that name
D is that a node in the government? I think so. Okay. He
gave $100. Wow. Yeah. And he said that simple note, he just
said, Keep it going, Adam and crew. Nice work.
Thank you so much, Scott. Yeah,
we can keep it going. Because of
that. Exactly. Exactly. Because of that.
So the database problem. Now, I woke up, this just reminded his
note reminded me of that
beginning of the week, you mean?
Yeah. What is this, like, last Saturday? Something like that?
No, no, what I remember is last Friday, I woke up. And I have
all these emails. Because I have a have a cron job that runs
every five minutes on all the servers that checks for disk
space. And if this space drops below a certain percentage, I
get an email about it. Well, I start getting all these emails
from the database server. Yeah, saying you got to catch
quick before it runs out. And you can't
save it. It was like, but what was weird is it was like, the
database, he would get an email. And then five minutes later, I
get another email saying it's 85% full, and I get a next one,
the set is 95. Oh, no. way. And then it would go into the next
one, five minutes after that was like 70%. It kept paying. So you
know, I run over there and pull it up. And there was a runaway
select, that I had been messing around with. And I thought I had
killed it. but evidently I didn't. What were you trying to
select? Well, it was I was working on the getting the most
recent enclosure thing. And that's a complicated query, with
some sub selects in there. And if you get that wrong, you can
easily end up building, if you get that wrong read
the database is rebuilding itself.
The episodes table episodes table is like 70 gigs. And so it
it was rambling. Yeah, it will build a temporary table. That's
almost the entire thing.
So because of that, let me guess because of the value we
received, you were able to set up a complete replication system
and save the day.
Oh, no. Damn.
Whatever your story is, this one's better.
I just restarted the database.
plugged it Yeah.
sudo reboot. And I was like, please, please don't do that.
Anyway. But But now if we meet if we need to, and by the way,
CRISPR I seen is trickling in feeds on a daily basis now where
the database is about to hit one and a half million feet. And
this one point,
and this is all on stats dot podcast. index.org now,
yeah, yeah. Nice. Yeah. Nice. We got our own page boost to be
doing about one every couple of seconds, I think. So where we
started at around 1.3 or something like that. And now
we're at, we're just about the 1.5 million and so that the
database is going to grow and that the episodes table is going
to be humongous. We may need a bigger database server so we got
it. If we need it. We got it.
That's what's so beautiful, man. Does this change dynamically
when a new one pops up?
Every 15 minutes? I think it refreshes. Yeah, sweet. See, we
got john called. I think there's a say k. Oh, lb.
Calm calm.
Yeah. I think.
Oh, yeah. Concho Yeah. JOHN called the third gave us $33.33
magic number. Yep. I said, Dave, hardware engineer and podcast
fan here. All right, something, something about the deep dive
into the namespace gives me a warm feeling and
see it's working already. Thanks.
Thank you, john. That's appreciated. And we get to, we
lost a $50 month subscription this month. So this thing does
happen. It does happen. And we but we gained, Alex gates gave
us a $25 monthly to Jewish nice, thank you, everybody. Everybody
knows Alex,
those. Those recurring donations are great and really appreciate
that.
Yeah. Thank you. And thank you, thank you for the donation but
also thank you for all your input. He's really active on the
mastodon and on the GitHub. Yeah, yeah. Really appreciate
that. There was no note and then Thomas Sullivan gave us $5 month
subscription and those are extremely helpful, because that
that will cover there. We've got plenty of $5 months one gig VMs.
And yeah,
no kidding. No kidding. Absolutely.
Thank you, Thomas. very appreciated, guys. That's it.
That's great.
Well, thank you all. keeping the lights on keeping the server's
running once again, we make it through another week. podcast
index.org scroll to the bottom we got a big big red button.
Click on that you can still send your COC bucks to the Pay Pal
system. And we're lighting to firing and Bitcoin defying
everything Eric the shill is working on back office all kinds
of I see him putting a lot of QR codes and things in place. So
he's doing something to demand more monitors
than anybody
is like, I have a ground loop on my mic. Hmm. Gee, I don't know.
Maybe unplug half of those televisions. You got blasted on?
Yeah. Oh, man, man, man, man. So what's, what's the future for
you and for pod Libra, or maybe for you personal Benjamin.
Um, we, we are starting to commercialize our contextual
monetization program. So that's, that's gonna be a big chunk on
our desk in the, in the coming months.
How does that? What exactly is that?
Um, so actually, what we do is that we, we analyze and index
the podcast episodes. So the the audio files and the metadata?
Yeah.
We, we have a semantic search, we, we extract what it talks
about, and we link that to anything. Oh, and that can be ad
our affiliate product or whatever. And we are conducting
some tests. Now. We, we display these ads within the show notes.
And that works pretty well, because we have a five person
click rate on this car. And it's it's totally cookieless.
Okay, so this is a contextual promotion system? I yeah, don't
need to call it as because you put anything in there. So
that's, that's okay. Here I go again. So you could also create
contextualized chapters.
Yes. Interesting. Huh? So, okay, so if you have, so you could run
a recommendation in point then
what you have here
for your recommendation tag? So let's, let's just say that.
Okay. I'm trying to think of a good example. Okay, let's say
that you are buzz cast. And, you know, here's a better example,
let's say that you're the new media show, with Todd Cochran
and Rob Greenlee. And you, if they want to put a
recommendation tag into their, into their show, they enter
their feed, they could call out to you with their feed
information, you can analyze, or you can pull out a year system
with things that are recommended, for instance, a
libsyn, a link to Lipson discount code, a link, blueberry
think things like that. And then the soundbite from, from some
from two of their shows that lists are good demos. And you
can return that as just a chunk of XML that they can just
automatically include
in their feed some something that's directly related to it
that really makes sense. That's the whole point of what we're
doing.
Okay. Okay. Because that that's neat, because that's the way I
see. I know, there's always there's always going to be
people who want to hard code and men manually code their own
stuff. But with to me the ultimate power of something like
a recommendation, the tag is that you have people you have
other companies like yours or like hosting companies, you have
other companies that they can you can call out to them and get
a batch of recommendations curated and returned as XML that
you can just drop in and then there can be there can be a, you
know, an incentive there a monetary incentive or however
that however that market develops
was that a question?
So, now
our expertise is working on the recommendation engines. Yeah, so
that's working for decades. Yeah. So
y'all would be fantastic at it. You know, it's it's really, it's
kind of a combo of human intelligence and artificial
intelligence.
Yeah, exactly. And,
and you actually get to be cut with your recommendation
choices. You could, in fact, I think, train the AI to some
degree.
Yeah, possibly. Okay.
Yeah, I want to start back up the phase three of the
namespace, but at the end of the month, so I'm thinking, and you
tell me, tell me what your opinion has been. I like there
to be some sort of balance between things that we can use
right now. And things that are more aspirational, looking down
the road, Moon shots, whatever you want to call them. And so
for what I'm thinking right now, for phase three, I would like to
do the recommendation stuff, I would like to also put location
into the chapters, Jason format. And then I would also like to do
trailers. Those are the those are the, because I think the
trailers can be immediately useful. We've already had at
least one host, I think it was his cat, captivate. captivate is
the one who came up with the trailers. Tag idea. So I'm
thinking if we have recommendation, trailers, and
then a tweak to an addition to the location into the chapters
format, that seems to me like a pretty good batch to work on for
phase three. Yeah, what do you think?
Perfect.
Go for it.
I'm thinking I'm thinking we start back, I think we start
back rolling with the namespace. April 1. And having a break has
been good. Because this let me catch my breath and catch up
with some of the code that I was really getting neglected. And
then I think I think it's time to create
your thing like yours, but also our breath.
Yeah, no kidding. Yeah.
Because you're hard to keep up with.
What I'm what I'm always worried about is we create something
fantastic. And we just, it just kind of sits over there we go.
1000 miles, like what what was that thing again? And we just
left it on by the side of the road? You know?
Yeah, that's always easy. Is
there a Is there anything like that right now that we just kind
of left dangling?
Um, I
don't think so. Really? now. I think everybody I think
everything's, everything's pretty up to speed. Yeah, I
mean, there's somebody doing all of it. You know, somebody's
doing every, at least one piece of all of it. Yeah, I don't
think there's anything on the floor really. That does, either.
Well, Benjamin,
I am so so delighted to have been able to meet you this way
and speak with you.
So am I,
and, and I'm over the moon with the thinking you're bringing to
podcasting. 2.0 and the project is some deep shit. And the
recommendation to me is well, as you're doing something really
and this, you know, as Dave mentioned, I've completely
rewrote and everyone's helping out on just a brief explanation
of what is podcasting 2.0 with the main mission of making it
easy for any journalist to understand, which is probably
the lowest bar I can go for. But it was a request. So I like that
request. And, and the big part of it really is. And what's hard
is to describe how beautiful the exam you could probably do it
for any open source movement, but how beautiful it is to allow
for all these features, all these ideas to come in. And and
they just and they happen or they don't you know, it's like
this, hardly anything someone's built that hasn't been
implemented by at least one other person. And it just starts
to grow into something. Well, this is what we wasted 10 Why
didn't I dropped out, but 10 years went by and look at all
this pent up energy that everyone has. It's beautiful to
see it and I really appreciate what you and your Siena doing
and the rest of the team. And I also appreciate Madame Fonda
Lyon, who indirectly is the President of the European Union
that gave you a grant so you can do this work.
Actually, she gave two grants.
Wow, she only just got in. Yeah. making it rain. Nice. Nice. From
the lion
head. How do you know that person?
I thought she's the President of the European.
Oh, I thought you know who is that? You know,
that was the cow. I know. The climate guy.
Yeah, that's what
when he didn't he viga
No, no, no, no MTV guy.
Yeah. politician is some some dude was like a media guy. And
then he became a politician. The Dude, that was the president of
the now he was at the MPC at NPR for a while.
Oh, no, no, no, no. No, you think of someone else. I'm
talking about from steamer mounts. He was in the running
for the Dutch politician. He was in the running for the European
Union for the presidency. And he cut a deal and now he's the
climate czar. Okay. And so he gets to go find, you know, I
don't know. 100 100 trillion from here under trillion from
there.
Okay. Oh, damn. Almost forgot what? I don't know if I want to.
Okay. All right. I got to do it. I've got an idea. For Earth Day,
which is April 22. I think better make a better make sure
this. See Earth Day.
I always forget it.
April 22. Okay. All right. The guy from podcasters declare.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
More contacted me.
Oh, okay. I like this.
Yeah. And he for the for the climate
tag.
Yeah, climate tag. So I just had this idea. This and I had asked
on the mastodon for people to tell me whether or not you could
put in a tag in iTunes that does not exist. So if you have an AI,
if you have a feed in iTunes in the apple in the apple podcast
directory,
I think it just ignores it, doesn't it?
Yeah, that's what they said. They said that it's safe to
it'll safely ignore it. Uh huh. So here's my idea for Earth Day,
we launched the tag on Earth Day.
Everybody puts in the day, it everyone put buddy puts in a
bogus iTunes climate category tag in their feed? The whole
world. Okay, as to get as, as a as PR.
Now, at what point does gretta do this?
I don't know.
If you don't have gretta you're not gonna get any traction?
Well,
I get we need gretta he grew up with and I think it's, it's a
it's a silent protest
here, but it won't show up anywhere.
But it but you, that doesn't matter. Because you have that
you just PR it? Because it's not it's the PR, they give you the
pressure. See, I
would I would you know my stance on this. But is it for me? It's
like, why don't we just implement it and tell them to go
fuck themselves? Oh, well, I
mean, that's, that's always the we could do. So I'd love for
everybody to put the climate tag in. But I'd love for it to just
work. We could do see, we're still griping about about how to
do categories over here. So we're not even ready. But if if
I just think it's a great thing to do is I Oh, you want to have
apple? You want to pressure them into giving giving you a climate
tag?
How will that
work? Because it gives all in the media. It's like a report on
that. 1 million podcasts on Earth Day are implementing a
climate tag because they're doing it themselves because
Apple won't do it.
Dave
1 million podcasts.
I don't know.
I'm just making crap up man.
I appreciate the sentiment. I just want to turn that into
something good for us too.
Yeah, I can't figure that part out.
Sorry that you had to listen to that to a struggling there.
Benjamin as I was about about to let us all go Dave. out. He
dragged down one o'clock in the morning and our time of
gratitude and Betty
was gone. I was wondering if I have to implement that into
Castor pod?
Well, eventually I think whatever we come up with with
categories. I'd like to see the climate folks get satisfied.
That will be fine. I think that's important.
Now you can add anything you want into your RSS feed so not
my problem anymore.
That's right.
There you go.
Right. Yes, indeed. Right there was cast upon Benjamin Bellamy
Thank you so much. Really appreciate you love the work
that you're doing. And again, thank you for for really pushing
everything further. It's It's It's great. And it's just great
to have partners in France. It doesn't happen very often.
It's my pleasure. And yeah, there are many, many great open
source and podcaster is in France. Well, I want to come
today just don't speak English. From Well,
you know, give me a 48 hours and I can kind of ask for A few
things. But I'd love to love to come back to Paris. And when I
do, maybe I can take you out for a coffee or for for a meal.
That'd be really fun. All right, Mr. Jones? Yep. Then we good. We
need anything. What? I should just mention that the breeze app
should be launching next week. Nice. And yeah, yeah. And it's a
whole different view of looking at how everything can be.
But I've got it. I got an iPhone. I don't you're having
all the fun. I get nothing. Yeah,
I got the, the APK Well, you know, for some reason, the
flutter guys always wind up doing the iOS part last. I'm
sure there's a reason for it. So be on the lookout for that.
Thank you both very much. And thank everyone else who was here
for the board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 and we will
gladly be back with you again next week. So make sure you join
us. Check us out on podcasting. next.org
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