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Podcasting 2.0 for March 7, 2025, episode

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213, The Substrate.

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Oh yeah, baby.

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Hello, everybody.

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Welcome once again to Podcasting 2.0. It

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is the only podcast you need to listen

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to, except for those five others that we

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listen to.

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It's a great podcast because it's not a

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podcast.

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It is a meeting of the board of

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directors of the future of podcasting.

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It's all being done right now.

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In fact, we are the only boardroom that

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never charges a tariff.

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I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the

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man who always says yes first and figures

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it out later.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

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That was a long one.

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Yeah.

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I was worried about you running out of

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steam.

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I thought you were going to run out

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of breath.

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Come on, man.

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I'm a professional pronunciator.

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I went to school.

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I went to the Connecticut School of Broadcasting.

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You know, we were talking about the roadcaster

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in the boardroom before the show.

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We had a similar discussion at my day

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job this morning.

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About a roadcaster?

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No, no, no.

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This is about the IT you could dub

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it the IT Indian burial ground effect.

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Please do expand.

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You've experienced this.

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You just don't know it.

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Okay.

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We've all experienced this.

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This is when you get something working.

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So you get a computer working perfectly.

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Everything works fine.

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You deliver it to the end user and

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it screws up horribly.

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Oh, yes.

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Then you go and get it and it

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works fine and bring it back to your

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office and it works fine again.

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You can't find anything wrong.

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You read, deliver it to the end user

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and it continues to work fine.

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Wait a minute.

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What is this called?

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It's called the this is the IT Indian

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burial ground.

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This is somehow.

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Do you know, have you seen the movie

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Jeremiah Johnson?

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No.

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With Robert Redford?

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No.

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You haven't seen this movie?

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I can say no again.

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This is a must watch.

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Okay.

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Wait, Jeremiah Johnson?

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Jeremiah Johnson.

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Let's see.

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This has got to be the 70s.

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Okay.

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Early 70s maybe.

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Jeremiah Johnson, Robert Redford.

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Yeah.

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What year?

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72.

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Yeah.

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This is 1972.

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You need to watch this movie.

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It's a great movie.

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But, you know, so the sort of the

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plot of this movie is long, by the

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way.

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I want to say it's like it says

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an hour and 48 minutes.

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It's got to be longer than an hour

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and 48 minutes.

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But anyway, so the plot of this movie

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or one of the one of the plots

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of this movie is, you know, they they

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go through an Indian burial ground.

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Oh, this is where the meme is from.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The Robert Redford looking at you and doing

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the nod.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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I recognize it.

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Sure.

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I have not seen it.

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I'm pretty sure I haven't.

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Okay.

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So part, you know, part of the subplot

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of this movie is that they they they're

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trying to get somewhere quick and they run

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up on this Indian burial ground and their

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guide says, hey, we know we can't we

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can't go through this.

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And this is this sacred land.

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And you're only allowed to go in once

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a year or something like that to do

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like a ceremony or something.

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And.

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You know, you can't you can't go in

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here, it's or you'll be cursed.

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And they're like, oh, man, we're in this

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we're in the middle of this ravine.

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If we have to backtrack and go around,

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it's going to take like two more, two

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extra days.

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And so they just kind of like, look,

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you know, look around a little bit, make

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sure nobody's watching.

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And then they just like, you know, book

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it through the Indian barrel middle of the

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Indian burial ground.

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You know, of course, this ends up very,

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very bad for them because now for the

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rest of the movie, they start getting tailed

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by and like attacked by by these Native

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American warriors.

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And you never exactly.

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You can say Indians.

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It's OK.

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Oh, yeah.

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I think I said Native Americans.

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I think that I like the term Native

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American.

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They don't.

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I think it's they don't.

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They like American Indians.

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I like American Indian, but as an American

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Indian, they get they get tailed and attacked

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by these American Indians that that you're never

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exactly sure if they're real or if they're

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sort of like spirits, you know, that are

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taking vengeance for their for their violation of

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this desecration of this Indian burial ground.

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But eventually the.

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It's determined they somehow paid their dues or

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whatever, you know, they've they've they've been hurt

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enough to where, you know, the the the

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Indian spirits or they let them off the

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hook, you know.

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Yeah.

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So I think I think what we determined

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was when what happens is you somehow you've

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you've violated some some spirit, you've desecrated the

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spirits.

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And then you've been you're being punished in

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the walking back and forth and having to

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eat crow from this user.

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You do that enough times and eventually you

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satisfy the spirits and the curse is lifted.

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And now this laptop works.

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That's that's that's a running theory.

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That's the philosophy.

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OK, I get it now.

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I see nothing else.

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Yeah.

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Nothing else makes sense.

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Yeah, I get it.

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So that's the same with the roadcaster.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't make any sense.

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You you're the roadcaster.

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The roadcaster messes up and it excuse me,

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it works best when you run it.

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And then at some point it gets the

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curse and you have to you know, you

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have to reboot it and go through the

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pain of watching the reverse progress bar and

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then the regular progress bar, which takes five

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minutes to boot.

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Really?

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Something's wrong.

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It shouldn't take that long.

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It shouldn't take something's wrong.

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No, that's got to be you got to

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get another micro SD card.

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That that's that's the weakest part of the

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whole system.

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I don't even have an SD card in

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it.

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Oh, well, there you go.

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Put an SD card in.

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It'll boot within seconds.

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This is this is this machine is is

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a child.

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It needs constant supervision.

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Well, it's made in Australia.

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So it's probably the aboriginal spirits that are

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that are also valid.

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Yes.

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Also valid.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So before we start, I've been working with

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you, Dave Jones, for 15 years.

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And if you listen to the latest power

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power podcast, weekly review interview with Adam and

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Dave.

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And you said it quite well there.

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You know, Adam comes up with some idea.

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You say yes first and then we go

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figure it out.

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Absolutely.

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But in 15 years and we've been through

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some things.

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I've never actually seen you get irritated by

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stuff people are saying to you.

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And I saw it today.

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On the social.

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And I need to talk.

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Yeah, well, let me just say let me

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just say something.

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Don't poke the bear people.

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I'm Dave's mama bear.

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You got to go through me.

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You when I read things like this is

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just a boys club, the founders, blah, blah,

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blah.

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Come on.

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Let's be a little mature here, shall we?

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With our language, that's all I ask for.

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Yeah.

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James's comments seriously ruined my entire day.

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I could tell I noticed it because when

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you throw it on.

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Oh, Lord, I mean, you're clutching your pearls.

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I mean, we got church ladies swinging the

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handbags.

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I'm it.

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I had a I had an argument with

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my wife this morning that I read that

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came from this because I was aggravated and

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I carried it into my relationship.

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I want to I want to.

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I guess I want to talk about this

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in this way.

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The reason the reason that I have thick

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skin, 99 percent of the time on.

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On this project is because if it's a

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self-defense mechanism, if I don't, if I

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let this stuff get to me, it really

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gets me hard and I cannot.

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Deal properly with it in my own life.

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So sometimes if you think you're being ignored,

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it's because it's for a good reason.

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It's because I'm trying to keep my emotional

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and mental distance from criticism.

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I see you, Chad.

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Yes.

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And I realized that after I said I

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was normally I would have said that's what

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she said.

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But you were in such a serious mode.

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I'm like I'm like, oh, man, you got

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to fight with Melissa's like I'm like, oh,

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I can't believe what he just said.

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I'm holding my tongue like that's what she

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said.

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OK, let me read.

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00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:48,950
Let me go back to let me go

285
00:09:48,950 --> 00:09:51,190
back to it.

286
00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:53,290
It really gets to me hard.

287
00:09:53,490 --> 00:09:54,010
How about that?

288
00:09:54,110 --> 00:09:55,510
That still sounds kind of bad.

289
00:09:55,790 --> 00:09:56,050
It's not OK.

290
00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:57,270
It's not OK.

291
00:09:57,290 --> 00:09:57,690
It's better.

292
00:09:59,310 --> 00:10:00,850
Let me go.

293
00:10:01,610 --> 00:10:03,910
Let me let me do a deep cut

294
00:10:03,910 --> 00:10:09,050
back into into the history of of it

295
00:10:09,050 --> 00:10:09,870
lands heavy.

296
00:10:10,050 --> 00:10:10,990
Yeah, there you go.

297
00:10:11,090 --> 00:10:11,390
Thank you.

298
00:10:11,570 --> 00:10:11,970
Much better.

299
00:10:12,590 --> 00:10:15,730
Those boys, those would be so, so, so,

300
00:10:15,730 --> 00:10:16,170
so, so be.

301
00:10:16,770 --> 00:10:18,010
Yes, it lands heavy.

302
00:10:18,110 --> 00:10:18,530
Thank you.

303
00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:18,950
Thank you.

304
00:10:20,810 --> 00:10:22,550
Let's strike that from the record.

305
00:10:23,410 --> 00:10:24,450
Nope, nope.

306
00:10:24,570 --> 00:10:25,410
There'll be no edit.

307
00:10:28,810 --> 00:10:31,010
So sort of a deep cut back into

308
00:10:31,010 --> 00:10:34,270
our project history, the when we had we

309
00:10:34,270 --> 00:10:36,270
were in this project with Dave Weiner called

310
00:10:36,270 --> 00:10:37,550
the World Outline.

311
00:10:37,610 --> 00:10:37,890
Yeah.

312
00:10:38,490 --> 00:10:39,190
That's how we met.

313
00:10:40,030 --> 00:10:40,230
Yeah.

314
00:10:40,370 --> 00:10:42,830
Easy to for poets in those.

315
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:44,950
I think those Google groups are still out

316
00:10:44,950 --> 00:10:45,070
there.

317
00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:46,430
You can just search for easy to for

318
00:10:46,430 --> 00:10:47,930
poets and you can see the stuff that

319
00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:48,370
we were doing.

320
00:10:50,610 --> 00:10:51,070
But.

321
00:10:52,410 --> 00:10:56,050
The the way that that whole project ultimately

322
00:10:56,050 --> 00:10:56,790
blew up.

323
00:10:58,630 --> 00:11:00,670
Was a few things that happened back to

324
00:11:00,670 --> 00:11:00,970
back.

325
00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:04,620
One of them was the one of them

326
00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:06,260
had to deal with you and your interaction

327
00:11:06,260 --> 00:11:08,220
with Dave, and one of them had to

328
00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:09,980
do with me and my interaction with Dave.

329
00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:11,480
And.

330
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:14,400
This was.

331
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,620
What happened was I made a I made

332
00:11:19,620 --> 00:11:22,740
a code change on your on your machine.

333
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,820
Gosh, you remember this stuff I've forgotten all

334
00:11:24,820 --> 00:11:25,100
about.

335
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,560
And please go deep.

336
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:27,880
I want to remember this well.

337
00:11:28,580 --> 00:11:31,120
So the way the way that this project

338
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,760
worked was Dave did all they wanted at

339
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,260
all of the coding in this what in

340
00:11:38,260 --> 00:11:41,940
this piece of software called Frontier Frontier Userland.

341
00:11:42,620 --> 00:11:44,240
And I had it and it was it

342
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,980
was its own thing with its own programming

343
00:11:45,980 --> 00:11:46,500
language.

344
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,620
And it was which is not necessary to

345
00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:50,180
understand.

346
00:11:51,740 --> 00:11:54,880
But if you but what would happen was

347
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,000
you could run you could download the software

348
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,940
and run run his code.

349
00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:03,200
And so it had the appearance of an

350
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:04,420
open source project.

351
00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:11,400
But what you found out over time was

352
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,380
the source may have been open, but the

353
00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:16,160
project itself wasn't open.

354
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,660
But the project really belongs to Dave Weiner,

355
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,600
and he was going to be the one

356
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,760
that was going to write the code and

357
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,500
and do those kinds of things.

358
00:12:28,780 --> 00:12:33,400
And it doesn't it was not open source

359
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,440
in the traditional sense of being an open

360
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,200
source project where other people could contribute.

361
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,580
And so I didn't understand that at the

362
00:12:44,580 --> 00:12:47,340
time, because the open source projects I've been

363
00:12:47,340 --> 00:12:49,280
involved with before you did, you know, you

364
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,180
you did pull requests, or I mean, they

365
00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:52,860
weren't called that then because this is before

366
00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:55,080
Git even existed.

367
00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:57,820
But you did code submissions and that kind

368
00:12:57,820 --> 00:12:58,100
of thing.

369
00:12:58,180 --> 00:13:00,440
You waited for approval, you talked it out

370
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:01,180
and that kind of thing.

371
00:13:02,140 --> 00:13:04,040
That really wasn't how this thing went.

372
00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:07,900
And so what happened was we had this

373
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,880
river of news, HTML page.

374
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:11,600
Yes, subversion.

375
00:13:11,740 --> 00:13:12,580
That's right, Eric PP.

376
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,200
Yeah, this river of news that was part

377
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,280
of the of the of the product or

378
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:18,820
the software.

379
00:13:19,460 --> 00:13:23,100
And so I was working with a with

380
00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:26,980
you, Adam, to what one of the things

381
00:13:26,980 --> 00:13:28,500
was happening is you could fall back at

382
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:30,120
that in those days, you could follow a

383
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,560
Twitter feed as RSS.

384
00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:35,420
Twitter create also spawned an RSS feed for

385
00:13:35,420 --> 00:13:36,380
every timeline.

386
00:13:36,540 --> 00:13:38,620
And so you could follow your time, your

387
00:13:38,620 --> 00:13:40,440
Twitter timeline in your RSS reader.

388
00:13:40,820 --> 00:13:42,240
A lot of people don't remember that.

389
00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:44,800
But at some point, yes, they killed the

390
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:45,500
RSS feeds.

391
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,140
So what happened was I created a link

392
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:53,140
expander.

393
00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:56,920
Some link expander code in JavaScript that would

394
00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,140
take a Twitter shortened URL and expand it

395
00:14:01,140 --> 00:14:05,660
into its original URL so that you didn't

396
00:14:05,660 --> 00:14:08,980
have to click through Twitter to to do

397
00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:09,100
it.

398
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,520
And so you could see where you were

399
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,640
going to end up going instead of just

400
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,940
this bland URL that was obfuscated.

401
00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:19,740
And so you were like, yeah, I want

402
00:14:19,740 --> 00:14:21,140
I want that because I want to be,

403
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,420
you know, you needed that that functionality.

404
00:14:23,540 --> 00:14:25,060
So I gave you that code and you

405
00:14:25,060 --> 00:14:26,940
installed it on your on your server.

406
00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:31,580
So then Dave did push some more code

407
00:14:31,580 --> 00:14:37,020
later and you mentioned something to him about

408
00:14:37,020 --> 00:14:40,740
this other Twitter expander URL code and he

409
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:41,720
got very angry.

410
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,220
Which I know is shocking, but he got

411
00:14:46,220 --> 00:14:52,780
very angry and just laid into me, told

412
00:14:52,780 --> 00:14:55,540
me that I was that that I was

413
00:14:55,540 --> 00:14:58,420
not allowed to touch his quote, his code

414
00:14:59,180 --> 00:15:01,020
without asking him first.

415
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,520
And he just basically treat, you know, talk,

416
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:06,920
talk to me as if I was a

417
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,180
child.

418
00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:13,960
This resulted in me feeling embarrassed, publicly ashamed,

419
00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:16,580
you know, like I had I'd never been

420
00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:17,520
talked to like this.

421
00:15:17,620 --> 00:15:19,540
And I thought Dave Wiener was this incredible,

422
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,440
you know, person that I did, you know,

423
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,520
that I didn't want him to lose, lose

424
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,260
respect for me and all these kinds of

425
00:15:27,260 --> 00:15:27,520
things.

426
00:15:27,540 --> 00:15:28,060
I was young.

427
00:15:28,140 --> 00:15:30,120
I was I was probably, I guess, in

428
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,200
my early 30s.

429
00:15:32,660 --> 00:15:36,180
And and so I ended up on this

430
00:15:36,180 --> 00:15:39,320
45 minute long phone call with Dave Wiener,

431
00:15:40,100 --> 00:15:43,140
essentially apologizing to him and all this kind

432
00:15:43,140 --> 00:15:43,520
of stuff.

433
00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:45,860
And when I was finished, you know, I

434
00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:53,280
just felt I felt that I that that

435
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,780
I had no respect for myself.

436
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,200
I felt that I had not.

437
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,320
I felt I had lost my own integrity.

438
00:16:02,780 --> 00:16:04,780
Gosh, Dave was very good at making people

439
00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:05,540
feel this way.

440
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:07,200
I know exactly what you're talking about.

441
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,860
He has a special way of making people

442
00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:10,560
feel small.

443
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:10,900
Yeah.

444
00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:17,100
And at that point, I just lost every

445
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,100
bit of desire for this for the project.

446
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,660
I hadn't I didn't care about it anymore.

447
00:16:24,620 --> 00:16:26,520
That was pretty much it.

448
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:27,260
I was done.

449
00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:30,360
And then, you know, a couple of weeks

450
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,020
later, you and him got into it about

451
00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:32,760
a separate issue.

452
00:16:32,780 --> 00:16:34,700
And that the pretty pretty much the whole

453
00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:35,380
thing collapsed.

454
00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:38,000
Well, he he I woke up one day

455
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,760
and just pulled the plug on the servers.

456
00:16:40,780 --> 00:16:41,220
Right.

457
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:41,760
He just shut.

458
00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:44,800
I don't remember why, but he just shut

459
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:45,240
it down.

460
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,740
It's like, I'm not going to do this

461
00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:48,620
if people do that and blah, blah, blah,

462
00:16:48,620 --> 00:16:49,100
blah, blah.

463
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:49,940
Right.

464
00:16:49,980 --> 00:16:51,840
He shut the servers down because of me.

465
00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:52,500
Oh, yeah.

466
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,180
And then later you had a problem.

467
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,900
And he said in his you had a

468
00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:58,220
problem in production with no agenda.

469
00:16:58,220 --> 00:17:00,420
And his response was RTFM.

470
00:17:01,420 --> 00:17:01,860
Yeah.

471
00:17:02,260 --> 00:17:02,520
Yeah.

472
00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:03,319
And that was it.

473
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,460
And so that pretty much was the end

474
00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:05,960
of it.

475
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,980
And so this this is what I've been

476
00:17:12,980 --> 00:17:16,240
afraid of with all open source projects that

477
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,660
I get involved in is a repeat of

478
00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:21,660
that, because if you if you make people

479
00:17:21,660 --> 00:17:26,079
if you are mean spirited and you try

480
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,780
to hurt people's feelings or make them feel

481
00:17:29,780 --> 00:17:31,340
bad about the work they're doing.

482
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:34,320
That is the result that you're going to

483
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:34,600
get.

484
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,040
You're going to get people who don't want

485
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,080
to participate and who just want to go

486
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:39,460
away.

487
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,480
And that's the way I felt this morning.

488
00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:45,520
I was really just tired of the entire

489
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:46,160
project.

490
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:51,780
I felt thoroughly innervated and just done.

491
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:57,000
You know, and honestly, I'm going to have

492
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,940
to work through that those feelings this week.

493
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:02,520
I'm just going to need to spend some

494
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,060
time this week just trying to figure out.

495
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:08,860
My orientation to the project, I mean, I'm

496
00:18:08,860 --> 00:18:10,920
not stopping, I'm not leaving or anything like

497
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:11,520
that, I just.

498
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,640
I don't I can't let this sort of

499
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,960
stuff get to me in this way or

500
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,980
else I will leave, and that is something

501
00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:22,440
that I can't let happen.

502
00:18:24,460 --> 00:18:27,740
What James said to me felt hurtful and

503
00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:30,260
denigrating, and I'm not going to go through

504
00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:30,800
that again.

505
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,220
You know, and the thing about it is

506
00:18:36,220 --> 00:18:38,080
this is all we're all volunteers here.

507
00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:40,560
This is all donated time.

508
00:18:42,180 --> 00:18:44,520
And the point that needs to be made

509
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,960
about that is this is as good as

510
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:47,460
it gets.

511
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,220
There is no if we if what we

512
00:18:52,220 --> 00:18:57,140
want in podcasting is a group of people

513
00:18:57,140 --> 00:19:04,940
that's dedicated to building technology for podcasting, building

514
00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:07,500
open protocols and open specifications.

515
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:11,900
This is all you're ever going to get.

516
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:20,360
Nobody cares enough to pay for this sort

517
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:20,860
of work.

518
00:19:21,340 --> 00:19:24,000
The podcast industry does not care.

519
00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:28,580
They've proven that time after time after time.

520
00:19:29,260 --> 00:19:32,140
They there will never be a standards body.

521
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,900
There will never be a some sort of

522
00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:38,860
working group with a board and with a

523
00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:41,640
with committees and all these kinds of things

524
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,860
that just is not going to happen.

525
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,860
And if you think it is, you are

526
00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:49,460
living in a fantasy world.

527
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,520
What we have right now with podcasting 2

528
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,000
.0, a group of people trying to build

529
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,340
these the namespace and these open protocols.

530
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:06,320
That is as good as this thing is

531
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,720
ever going to be.

532
00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:11,380
Even if somebody like and what I mean

533
00:20:11,380 --> 00:20:14,500
is people volunteering their time.

534
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,960
Even if somebody like Apple stepped up to

535
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,220
like fund this or fund some sort of

536
00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:26,580
real standards body, we'd be right back stuck

537
00:20:26,580 --> 00:20:28,540
in the same place that Mozilla is right

538
00:20:28,540 --> 00:20:28,880
now.

539
00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:32,700
They never will to be to be to

540
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:34,960
be, you know, first, first of all.

541
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,440
But even if they did in some kind

542
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,400
of weird world where that became where that

543
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,640
worked out, then what you are is your

544
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:48,540
Mozilla who is always beholden to Google for

545
00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:52,580
their annual donation in order to survive.

546
00:20:55,780 --> 00:21:01,460
This, this project works this way in it.

547
00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:04,160
And, you know, James says last week he

548
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,120
had all these criticisms of the project, all

549
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,860
these criticisms of this is why I'm down

550
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:11,740
on 2.0, because you have to harass

551
00:21:11,740 --> 00:21:13,680
people and you have to, you know, you

552
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,720
have to get angry at people to get

553
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,720
anything done and you just get ignored and

554
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,300
you have, you know, you spend your time

555
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:22,380
building a, you know, writing up a huge

556
00:21:22,380 --> 00:21:24,260
document and nobody ever says a word about

557
00:21:24,260 --> 00:21:25,900
it, you know, and I was getting just

558
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:28,260
all these criticisms, you know, and they're all

559
00:21:28,260 --> 00:21:28,840
aimed at me.

560
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:29,880
I understand that.

561
00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:33,500
It's nobody, nobody's, you know, it's obvious.

562
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:38,540
We know that's, I'm sorry, but that's as

563
00:21:38,540 --> 00:21:39,320
good as it gets.

564
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,840
What you get is, I'll tell you what

565
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,080
my, what my day looks like.

566
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,960
I wake up, I get about an hour,

567
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,400
sometimes an hour and a half to code

568
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:52,100
on Godcaster.

569
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,900
Then I go to my day job all

570
00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:56,200
day.

571
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,300
Then I get home, do all my family

572
00:21:58,300 --> 00:21:58,740
stuff.

573
00:21:58,980 --> 00:22:01,600
And I may get 30 minutes at night,

574
00:22:02,140 --> 00:22:05,940
maybe to work on namespace and index stuff.

575
00:22:06,180 --> 00:22:07,080
That's typical.

576
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,340
On Friday, I have to run home at

577
00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:14,440
lunch, eat lunch while I'm doing this show,

578
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,400
then run back to the office.

579
00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:18,200
So that takes all that away.

580
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,880
What happened this morning was I scrolled through,

581
00:22:22,340 --> 00:22:23,780
I was going to start working on Godcaster

582
00:22:23,780 --> 00:22:25,360
on a new feature that we're working on.

583
00:22:25,780 --> 00:22:27,080
Sorry, I was going to, I was going

584
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,220
to start working on that, but I just

585
00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:31,120
read James' message, you know, and I was

586
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:32,520
just like, screw it.

587
00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:34,800
I can't, I can't even do this.

588
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:35,820
I can't.

589
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,320
I was so upset.

590
00:22:41,260 --> 00:22:43,380
I'm focused on coding right now.

591
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,500
So I lost, I lost an entire hour

592
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:49,520
of coding time on Godcaster because of that.

593
00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:53,820
And that's what I can't allow to happen.

594
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,160
This is also why there might be a

595
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:03,040
sense of being ignored because the GitHub is

596
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,360
a place where I find it very difficult

597
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:06,260
to work now.

598
00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:08,540
Oh, GitHub's always turned into that.

599
00:23:09,380 --> 00:23:11,180
It turns into a flame war.

600
00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:12,480
I never look at the GitHub.

601
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:14,540
I can't, I can't, it gets my blood

602
00:23:14,540 --> 00:23:14,860
boiling.

603
00:23:15,580 --> 00:23:17,720
I had to turn off notifications about a

604
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,940
year ago from the GitHub because there was

605
00:23:20,940 --> 00:23:22,780
a person in there that, you know, that

606
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:26,220
is pretty much gone now.

607
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,180
There's a person in there that was just

608
00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:30,980
relentlessly criticizing me and my decisions.

609
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:32,840
And I was like, you know what, I

610
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,240
can't, I can't read a post that has

611
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,620
12 paragraphs of criticism of me and then

612
00:23:40,620 --> 00:23:43,040
also be productive and get some stuff done.

613
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,860
Like this is, I can't do this.

614
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:49,740
So I turned off the notifications and that's

615
00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:50,860
why I do most of my work on

616
00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:53,720
the Mastodon, trying to, because it's a quick

617
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,280
turnaround and I don't have to deal with

618
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:56,540
all the political bullcrap.

619
00:23:57,380 --> 00:24:00,660
But now it's getting into the Mastodon and

620
00:24:00,660 --> 00:24:05,900
it's becoming, it's getting harder and harder to

621
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:08,140
focus on getting stuff done because even when

622
00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:09,720
you give people what they want, what they've

623
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,320
asked for, you get even more criticized when

624
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,340
you give them what they want.

625
00:24:16,420 --> 00:24:20,180
And I'm just, I'm just sick of all

626
00:24:20,180 --> 00:24:26,560
the political part of this and I'm going

627
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,620
to have to figure out a way to

628
00:24:27,620 --> 00:24:28,500
work around it.

629
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,680
If I may quote from our brother James,

630
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,180
and with that I mean the Apostle James,

631
00:24:37,020 --> 00:24:39,040
understand this my dear brothers and sisters, you

632
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,940
must all be quick to listen, slow to

633
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:43,620
speak, and slow to get angry.

634
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,620
Human anger does not produce the righteousness God

635
00:24:46,620 --> 00:24:47,100
desires.

636
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,900
So get rid of all the filth and

637
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:51,380
evil in your lives and humbly accept the

638
00:24:51,380 --> 00:24:53,260
word God has planted in your hearts for

639
00:24:53,260 --> 00:24:55,580
it has the power to save your souls.

640
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:58,800
And we all should, I mean I repeat

641
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,140
this to myself every morning, quick to listen,

642
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,440
slow to speak, slow to get angry.

643
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,240
That's really where we have to be.

644
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:10,880
And it will help everybody if you just

645
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,280
think of those three little short terms, quick

646
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,980
to listen, slow to speak, slow to get

647
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:15,240
angry.

648
00:25:15,460 --> 00:25:17,480
It's changed my life, it really has.

649
00:25:18,540 --> 00:25:21,140
So I was right when I saw, I

650
00:25:21,140 --> 00:25:21,860
saw what happened.

651
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,340
I felt you brother, I felt you.

652
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,940
And, and, and honestly I'm, my, you know,

653
00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:29,880
I, what happens is for people who don't

654
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,280
live like you and I do, you want

655
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:32,980
to pull the plug.

656
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,040
I was like, yeah, why don't I shut

657
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,500
down the Mastodon for a day?

658
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,100
I'm like, no, no, no, this is not

659
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:40,960
where I got to reset my thinking.

660
00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:43,040
How much does it cost you to run

661
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,440
the Mastodon each month, by the way?

662
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,180
150 bucks?

663
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:46,560
Yeah, yeah, about 150.

664
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:48,460
150 dollars?

665
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,540
Out of pocket.

666
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,920
Yeah, I don't deduct that from the, from

667
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:54,400
our fund.

668
00:25:54,580 --> 00:25:56,100
I don't know why, I just never did.

669
00:25:56,180 --> 00:25:57,660
I'm like, I kind of enjoy it.

670
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,020
Yeah, and it's, you know, it really, again,

671
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,680
again, it's, it's a group of people doing

672
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,480
the best they can with busy lives, donating

673
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,460
their time for nothing.

674
00:26:15,220 --> 00:26:16,540
And we're all doing it.

675
00:26:16,580 --> 00:26:17,980
And we're all, we're all doing it for

676
00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:18,260
nothing.

677
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:18,880
All of us.

678
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:19,100
Yeah.

679
00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:23,200
All of us, everybody, everybody, James included, we're

680
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,640
all donating our time.

681
00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:27,300
So can we please like give a little

682
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,120
bit of, um, of grace to each other

683
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,280
when things don't go exactly the way that

684
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,320
we think that they should?

685
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,780
Um, I always have, I always have to

686
00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:41,540
point out, and this goes for you, it

687
00:26:41,540 --> 00:26:43,500
goes for people who do podcasts, it goes

688
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:44,080
for pastors.

689
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,880
I always have to remind people, these kinds

690
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,440
of people make it look easy.

691
00:26:50,540 --> 00:26:52,040
That's, that's the problem.

692
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:53,520
No, they make it look so easy.

693
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,640
I know you have, I mean, my, my

694
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,960
prayer for Godcaster, and I'll be very open

695
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,680
about this, I hope that, I hope that

696
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,140
we, and I've actually, uh, our partner, Gordon,

697
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,240
we both agreed.

698
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:07,380
We, we hope that this can get you

699
00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:08,640
away from your day job.

700
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,220
There will be enough revenue so that you

701
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:13,300
can stop doing what you're doing and only

702
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:14,880
do things that you enjoy doing.

703
00:27:15,220 --> 00:27:16,920
Uh, although I'm sure you get some joy

704
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:17,820
out of the day job.

705
00:27:18,620 --> 00:27:21,520
Um, but you know, people just need to

706
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:22,720
be reset once in a while.

707
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,020
And remember how this came about, what, what

708
00:27:26,020 --> 00:27:26,960
the project was set.

709
00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:29,080
The project was only set out to create

710
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:29,720
an index.

711
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,840
And then we created a namespace for one

712
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,860
reason and one reason only to add value

713
00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:36,540
for value payments, which is kind of an

714
00:27:36,540 --> 00:27:37,060
experiment.

715
00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:41,540
And then everybody came in and we must

716
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:42,840
go back once in a while and say,

717
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,800
Hey, you know, this was the community that,

718
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,820
that, that brought in all these ideas.

719
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,600
And, and, you know, I never said you,

720
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:51,600
Hey Dave, let's create an open source project

721
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,420
where everybody can come in and want stuff

722
00:27:53,420 --> 00:27:54,100
and bitch at you.

723
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:55,280
I don't think I said that.

724
00:27:55,580 --> 00:27:57,420
I don't think that was the original intent.

725
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,280
Um, if you had, we may have had

726
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:01,800
a double take the first time you would

727
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:02,720
have said no to me.

728
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,600
Um, you know, but it, and it's, I

729
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,080
have my own kind of version of that,

730
00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:10,360
you know, the, and it's, and it doesn't

731
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:12,400
affect me the same way, you know, the

732
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,100
chiding of, uh, you should be doing speeches.

733
00:28:15,220 --> 00:28:16,780
You should be going to all these podcasts,

734
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:17,280
conferences.

735
00:28:17,380 --> 00:28:18,400
How come you're not out there?

736
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:19,840
Well, I have other things to do with

737
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,000
my life and, and there's no upside.

738
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,980
You know, there's no, in fact, I, we

739
00:28:25,980 --> 00:28:27,480
tried it once and we got shoved in

740
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,360
a back room at lunchtime.

741
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,180
And like, that was, that was a very

742
00:28:31,180 --> 00:28:35,240
embarrassing moment, you know, from the podcast industrial

743
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:35,860
complex.

744
00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:38,680
So no, no, I'm just not going to

745
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:39,360
do that.

746
00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:43,960
And so go, you know, I don't block

747
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:44,420
people.

748
00:28:44,420 --> 00:28:46,520
I think that I don't, I don't do

749
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,240
stuff like that.

750
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,180
I don't, I don't block and, you know,

751
00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:50,860
mute PI.

752
00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:51,620
No, I do.

753
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,520
I mute, uh, a few people that, uh,

754
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,320
do like political stuff.

755
00:28:57,340 --> 00:28:59,140
So like, I have certain things muted where

756
00:28:59,140 --> 00:29:01,180
it's like anything that says Trump in it.

757
00:29:01,220 --> 00:29:03,700
I have that muted or Biden or things

758
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:05,540
like that to keep that out of my

759
00:29:05,540 --> 00:29:05,880
timeline.

760
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,240
Cause I need to focus on, I want

761
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,020
my podcast index timeline to be just, uh,

762
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,620
relevant to tech stuff.

763
00:29:12,180 --> 00:29:14,360
But like, I'm not going to mute people

764
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,000
or block people or any of that or

765
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,800
any of that stuff.

766
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,020
It's just not what I do, but I

767
00:29:20,020 --> 00:29:22,220
am going to be, you know, I am

768
00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:26,320
going to be open about the way that

769
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:27,100
it makes me feel.

770
00:29:28,180 --> 00:29:31,160
And, you know, I do have thick skin,

771
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,960
but everybody has a breaking point.

772
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:36,900
Everybody has a point where they just, you,

773
00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:39,400
you know, you break them down.

774
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,560
And I felt that way today.

775
00:29:42,540 --> 00:29:45,260
So, um, and it all had to do

776
00:29:45,260 --> 00:29:50,060
with the stupid image tag and explaining this

777
00:29:50,060 --> 00:29:53,500
to somebody is very hard because it seems

778
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:55,780
like such a tempest in a teapot.

779
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,680
Um, and when you're just like, you know,

780
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:02,420
Oh, I'm so depressed and why the images

781
00:30:02,420 --> 00:30:04,900
tag, you know, it's like, what are you

782
00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:05,960
even talking about?

783
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,460
But a key question for me, is everything

784
00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:09,480
okay with Melissa though?

785
00:30:09,580 --> 00:30:10,660
You, you guys made up?

786
00:30:10,940 --> 00:30:12,180
Oh yeah, for sure.

787
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:12,860
Oh yeah.

788
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,920
No, we're, we're fine.

789
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,680
Cause I'll come right out there and I'll

790
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:16,420
explain it to her.

791
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:17,160
No problem.

792
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:19,120
I'll hop on my hop in my plane.

793
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,400
I'll buzz out.

794
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:21,860
It only take me five hours, but I'll

795
00:30:21,860 --> 00:30:22,280
get there.

796
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:26,600
Uh, so we, you know, this, no, that's

797
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:26,940
all fine.

798
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,540
I realized what was happening and pulled that

799
00:30:29,540 --> 00:30:30,040
back.

800
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,980
So, um, you know, but the image tag,

801
00:30:35,980 --> 00:30:41,760
but this, again, I'm not stopping this work.

802
00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:44,460
I'm just, I'm just not.

803
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,160
And because I just think it's so important

804
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,200
and we've had such success and we've had,

805
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,700
and we're going to have more success in

806
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:56,040
getting these things out into the world with,

807
00:30:56,180 --> 00:31:00,380
with, with, um, with, with podcasting tech.

808
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,560
And, and now I want to go to,

809
00:31:04,260 --> 00:31:07,680
if you'll let me continue now, I want

810
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,400
to go to, go ahead.

811
00:31:09,620 --> 00:31:11,660
Well, no, I have one more thing to

812
00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:13,000
say, but I don't know if you're changing

813
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:13,600
topics.

814
00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:16,360
Uh, slightly, but go ahead.

815
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:16,600
Yeah.

816
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:19,040
But all, all I wanted to say is

817
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,080
that what started from the beginning as a

818
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,520
resource that we set up value for value

819
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,680
in people's minds.

820
00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:30,320
And it's good to, to reiterate this from

821
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,860
time to time has somehow turned into a,

822
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:36,840
every podcast app has to have every single

823
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:37,280
tag.

824
00:31:37,380 --> 00:31:38,560
Otherwise it fails.

825
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:40,200
Podcasting has to be this.

826
00:31:40,260 --> 00:31:41,500
It has to have all these things.

827
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,900
Every single app has to do it.

828
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,860
Every hosting company has to do it.

829
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:46,160
Newsflash.

830
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:47,360
It's not going to happen.

831
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,140
That has never been the intent of this

832
00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:49,680
project.

833
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,640
That's important to remember.

834
00:31:51,780 --> 00:31:54,100
We are not on a mission to convince

835
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:57,240
Apple to adopt every tag or Spotify or

836
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,020
any of that.

837
00:31:58,820 --> 00:32:00,480
You know, to me, it's just as futile

838
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,720
as, you have to have a video to

839
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:03,700
be a podcaster.

840
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,340
It's, it's noise.

841
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:06,500
It's all just noise.

842
00:32:06,980 --> 00:32:09,100
And what I love is that we have

843
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:11,220
proven and are in the process of proving

844
00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:15,460
and others have as well that you can

845
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:17,360
build other things with this.

846
00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:21,300
It's not just one mission to make everybody

847
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:25,140
adopt, adopt, screw the word, adopt this, adopt.

848
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:26,760
Not everyone's going to do it.

849
00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:28,180
Not everyone's into adoption.

850
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,200
Some like abortion.

851
00:32:31,380 --> 00:32:32,600
They're not going to do it.

852
00:32:32,820 --> 00:32:33,740
They're not going to do it.

853
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,100
It's, it's, it's a futile mission, but having

854
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:40,960
a cool resource to create things with and

855
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,260
do your own thing, that's your own individual

856
00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:44,760
mission.

857
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,120
Everybody do what you want to do.

858
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,440
And if you need something, we'll work with

859
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,640
you to create it and to, and to

860
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,360
make it workable for what you want to

861
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:53,580
do.

862
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:54,720
Okay.

863
00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:55,840
That's all I need to say.

864
00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:05,400
Um, the podcast image tag, uh, let's, you

865
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,580
know, hope we can discuss it here because

866
00:33:07,580 --> 00:33:13,480
I think, um, the thing is, so I,

867
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:15,200
I dis, I disagree.

868
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,900
I disagreed that the podcast images tag, uh,

869
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:20,980
needed to go away.

870
00:33:22,740 --> 00:33:25,560
Um, I didn't think I'd, I did not

871
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,220
think it did.

872
00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:29,080
We had a difference of opinion on that

873
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:29,680
and that's fine.

874
00:33:29,820 --> 00:33:31,280
People can have differences of opinion.

875
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:33,940
Everybody's entitled to that.

876
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,960
Um, but James felt so strongly about it

877
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,060
that I thought, okay, you know what, I'm

878
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:42,720
going to back off.

879
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:49,440
And for the sake of keeping, um, I

880
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:50,820
respect James a lot.

881
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:58,720
And, um, because of that, I want, I

882
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:03,840
thought it was more important for, um, I

883
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,560
thought people, people in relationships were more important

884
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:07,340
than technology.

885
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:09,880
And so I said, okay, even though I,

886
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,739
I said to myself, even though I disagree

887
00:34:11,739 --> 00:34:15,580
with him, let me think about this and

888
00:34:15,580 --> 00:34:18,020
consider what he's saying.

889
00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:21,860
And if he feels so strongly about the

890
00:34:21,860 --> 00:34:25,060
podcast images tag needing to go away, fine,

891
00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:26,179
I'm okay with that.

892
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:27,360
Let's kill it.

893
00:34:28,739 --> 00:34:31,540
Um, so that was, that was sort of

894
00:34:31,540 --> 00:34:32,639
one step in the thinking.

895
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,540
The next step was if we're going to

896
00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:40,560
kill it, then, uh, even though I don't

897
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,460
want to, but if we're going to, then

898
00:34:43,460 --> 00:34:44,639
we need to do this in a proper

899
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:45,040
way.

900
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,580
And having another tag that just takes its

901
00:34:50,580 --> 00:34:56,600
place, um, doesn't make any sense to me,

902
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:57,700
excuse me, to me.

903
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,420
Um, because then you have to have backwards

904
00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:05,380
compatibility with the source set attributes.

905
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,400
So the podcast images tag only has one

906
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,100
attribute and it's called source set the source

907
00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:11,280
set.

908
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:13,340
Everybody agrees that they don't like the source

909
00:35:13,340 --> 00:35:13,940
set attribute.

910
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,180
So let's just kill the whole thing.

911
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,600
But if you can maintain the name images,

912
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:23,860
now you have a conflict and you have

913
00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:25,840
to maintain some sort of backwards compatibility.

914
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,560
Otherwise it's just a big confusing mess.

915
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:32,100
So if we're going to deprecate podcast images

916
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,660
tag, we just need to get rid of

917
00:35:35,660 --> 00:35:38,000
it altogether and we need to make a

918
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:38,640
new tag.

919
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,740
And so my, okay, well there's a, there's

920
00:35:43,740 --> 00:35:45,260
a new opportunity here.

921
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:47,940
I'm just going, I'm just going through what

922
00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:50,500
my thinking, because I've, it may not be

923
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:52,640
obvious, but I've been thinking about this all

924
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:53,040
week.

925
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:56,080
I've been thinking about this image tag and

926
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,540
how to make everybody happy and how to

927
00:35:59,540 --> 00:36:01,640
keep and how to move forward on this

928
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,040
topic.

929
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,200
I've been thinking about this the entire week.

930
00:36:04,220 --> 00:36:06,620
And I finally came to a set of

931
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:09,060
what I thought would be good, a good,

932
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,400
a good package of ideas.

933
00:36:11,940 --> 00:36:14,040
And I put it on the GitHub yesterday.

934
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:16,900
So these are the thoughts that led me

935
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:18,720
to the, to what I posted yesterday.

936
00:36:21,380 --> 00:36:25,460
We deprecate the images tag altogether, get rid

937
00:36:25,460 --> 00:36:27,600
of the whole name and everything, make it

938
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,100
go away.

939
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,940
And make it go away by, make it

940
00:36:32,940 --> 00:36:33,240
go away.

941
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:36,600
I'm actually going to create a deprecated section,

942
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,200
a deprecated document that still lists these tags.

943
00:36:41,260 --> 00:36:42,980
And not even deprecated, it's going to be

944
00:36:42,980 --> 00:36:44,920
called something else because the banner tag is

945
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,400
going to go into this same document.

946
00:36:47,020 --> 00:36:49,860
These are tags that are, let's just say

947
00:36:49,860 --> 00:36:50,600
unofficial.

948
00:36:50,980 --> 00:36:51,640
How about that?

949
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,360
Not deprecated, but unofficial.

950
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,520
Things you see in the wild, you may

951
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,260
see in the wild that we're no, that

952
00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:01,420
we're no longer active, you know, there's, excuse

953
00:37:01,420 --> 00:37:05,000
me, that we're not, that are not part

954
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,060
of the spec that we're actively maintaining.

955
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:16,450
So the images tag goes away along with

956
00:37:16,450 --> 00:37:17,370
the source set attribute.

957
00:37:17,810 --> 00:37:19,870
We create a new tag called image.

958
00:37:20,290 --> 00:37:21,850
So podcast colon image.

959
00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:24,710
And now we have an opportunity to have

960
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:28,630
some cross compatibility with the iTunes image tag.

961
00:37:29,150 --> 00:37:31,870
So we take the source attribute, the SRC

962
00:37:31,870 --> 00:37:33,990
attribute, rename that to href.

963
00:37:35,050 --> 00:37:39,130
It's the only now, it's now the only

964
00:37:39,130 --> 00:37:40,330
required attribute.

965
00:37:41,150 --> 00:37:44,510
That makes it essentially identical at its base

966
00:37:44,510 --> 00:37:46,490
level before you add any other attributes.

967
00:37:46,810 --> 00:37:49,790
It's directly a drop-in replacement for iTunes

968
00:37:49,790 --> 00:37:53,310
image because it looks exactly the same.

969
00:37:54,830 --> 00:37:59,370
So we start there, then add on a

970
00:37:59,370 --> 00:38:04,110
set of attributes that give you progressively more

971
00:38:04,110 --> 00:38:05,050
functionality.

972
00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:12,190
And so that would be the alt attribute,

973
00:38:12,830 --> 00:38:14,130
which is like HTML.

974
00:38:17,110 --> 00:38:19,270
So it just gives you a text that

975
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:21,710
you can, for accessibility, you can put this.

976
00:38:21,850 --> 00:38:23,150
Now these are all Nathan's.

977
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:25,610
So far, this is all Nathan's stuff.

978
00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:26,130
You know, okay.

979
00:38:26,690 --> 00:38:29,070
He, he introduced, this is based on his

980
00:38:29,070 --> 00:38:34,530
spec, Nathan Gathwright, the alt attribute he added

981
00:38:34,530 --> 00:38:37,430
to give you some accessibility help.

982
00:38:38,170 --> 00:38:41,990
He added the aspect ratio attribute, which is

983
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:44,530
classified as what I, which I changed from

984
00:38:44,530 --> 00:38:45,590
optional to recommended.

985
00:38:46,190 --> 00:38:47,710
So that's just going to be a straight

986
00:38:47,710 --> 00:38:50,630
aspect ratio, one to one, which would be

987
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:52,070
square 16 by nine.

988
00:38:52,210 --> 00:38:54,070
We all understand aspect ratios.

989
00:38:56,130 --> 00:39:02,730
This would give app developers a better sense

990
00:39:02,730 --> 00:39:06,710
of what they're getting size-wise.

991
00:39:10,070 --> 00:39:14,270
James likes the media thumbnail tag because it

992
00:39:14,270 --> 00:39:15,430
has a width and a height.

993
00:39:17,650 --> 00:39:22,010
So again, because I'm trying to accommodate his

994
00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:24,590
strong desires in this regard, I added width

995
00:39:24,590 --> 00:39:25,070
and height.

996
00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:29,970
Width is listed as recommended.

997
00:39:31,090 --> 00:39:32,250
Height is optional.

998
00:39:33,490 --> 00:39:37,950
The reason height is optional is because, the

999
00:39:37,950 --> 00:39:41,630
reason height is optional is because all you,

1000
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:44,210
all you really need is aspect ratio and

1001
00:39:44,210 --> 00:39:44,730
a width.

1002
00:39:44,890 --> 00:39:46,930
Because if you know the aspect ratio, you

1003
00:39:46,930 --> 00:39:48,770
can already know, you can determine the height.

1004
00:39:51,470 --> 00:39:52,990
So that's optional.

1005
00:39:53,330 --> 00:39:55,290
Then you have a type attribute.

1006
00:39:56,430 --> 00:39:58,230
So I added the width and height.

1007
00:39:58,370 --> 00:40:01,490
Now type attribute is something that Nathan added,

1008
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:04,570
and the type attribute gives you a MIME

1009
00:40:04,570 --> 00:40:04,830
type.

1010
00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:06,470
So this is going to be an image,

1011
00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:09,350
or is this going to be a video,

1012
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:11,350
like an mpeg4, mp4?

1013
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:18,810
The type, it's optional because it's not needed

1014
00:40:18,810 --> 00:40:19,650
most of the time.

1015
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:21,470
You're going to assume this is an image.

1016
00:40:22,050 --> 00:40:26,490
And most browsers or web views, you're going

1017
00:40:26,490 --> 00:40:29,470
to be able to handle jpegs, pngs, all

1018
00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:31,010
the standard stuff that you're going to get

1019
00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:32,190
90% of the time.

1020
00:40:32,670 --> 00:40:35,290
If you have something that's odd, like let's

1021
00:40:35,290 --> 00:40:36,470
just say, let's say you're trying to deliver

1022
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:40,650
like a TIFF, or a video, or you're

1023
00:40:40,650 --> 00:40:42,490
going into something like a video, like a

1024
00:40:42,490 --> 00:40:45,170
motion image, then you can use the type

1025
00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:46,450
to give a hint.

1026
00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:49,730
And then finally, you have purpose, which is

1027
00:40:49,730 --> 00:40:51,510
the one that was the most sort of

1028
00:40:51,510 --> 00:40:51,730
complex.

1029
00:40:51,730 --> 00:40:51,930
Right.

1030
00:40:52,050 --> 00:40:53,690
This is, this is the one, yeah, this

1031
00:40:53,690 --> 00:40:54,630
is the big one.

1032
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:55,470
Right.

1033
00:40:56,990 --> 00:40:59,150
And again, this is another, this is something

1034
00:40:59,150 --> 00:41:01,090
that, that Nathan added.

1035
00:41:01,590 --> 00:41:03,790
And, you know, based on some, some stuff

1036
00:41:03,790 --> 00:41:05,650
that me and him talked about and Stephen

1037
00:41:05,650 --> 00:41:05,890
B.

1038
00:41:07,070 --> 00:41:11,290
The purpose tokens are something that we would

1039
00:41:11,290 --> 00:41:12,690
maintain.

1040
00:41:13,170 --> 00:41:15,130
It's a list of things we would maintain.

1041
00:41:16,530 --> 00:41:18,530
These tokens could be something, it could be

1042
00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:19,630
like artwork.

1043
00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:22,290
These are the ones listed as examples.

1044
00:41:22,890 --> 00:41:27,530
Artwork, social, canvas, cover, publisher.

1045
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:30,250
We would have a list of these.

1046
00:41:34,290 --> 00:41:38,310
And they would link to the definitions of

1047
00:41:38,310 --> 00:41:39,030
what these are.

1048
00:41:39,330 --> 00:41:41,090
And these are meant to come from what's

1049
00:41:41,090 --> 00:41:42,850
going on in the industry already.

1050
00:41:43,170 --> 00:41:43,430
Okay.

1051
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:50,430
Like artwork and publisher and canvas.

1052
00:41:50,650 --> 00:41:54,530
These are, these link out to Apple's documentation

1053
00:41:54,530 --> 00:41:59,070
to say, okay, there's an acknowledgement that Apple

1054
00:41:59,070 --> 00:42:03,730
is, Apple, their guidelines and their requirements for

1055
00:42:03,730 --> 00:42:07,010
art are very important in the podcast world.

1056
00:42:08,030 --> 00:42:10,350
Every hosting company is going to have some

1057
00:42:10,350 --> 00:42:13,470
sort of connection to these descriptions and these

1058
00:42:13,470 --> 00:42:14,090
documents.

1059
00:42:14,350 --> 00:42:16,390
They're going to know them already.

1060
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:19,530
And it's all something that we could immediately

1061
00:42:19,530 --> 00:42:20,450
agree upon.

1062
00:42:21,490 --> 00:42:23,210
So we, all you can say is, you

1063
00:42:23,210 --> 00:42:26,310
know, hey, if you, if I deliver you

1064
00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:31,730
an image and it has a purpose of

1065
00:42:31,730 --> 00:42:36,730
publisher, then you know where exactly where to

1066
00:42:36,730 --> 00:42:37,810
go to find out what that is.

1067
00:42:37,870 --> 00:42:39,070
It's Apple's documentation.

1068
00:42:39,770 --> 00:42:41,290
And we have a link to it right

1069
00:42:41,290 --> 00:42:41,570
here.

1070
00:42:41,870 --> 00:42:46,030
So if an app developer sees that purpose,

1071
00:42:46,910 --> 00:42:49,330
they're going to know exactly what they're supposed

1072
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:50,050
to be getting.

1073
00:42:52,370 --> 00:42:54,410
And so there's a, there's a, there's a

1074
00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:59,110
list of these and these are all just

1075
00:42:59,110 --> 00:43:04,790
acknowledgements of already existing art related things that

1076
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:06,430
are happening in podcasting.

1077
00:43:07,170 --> 00:43:09,110
Now you can, you can do your own

1078
00:43:09,110 --> 00:43:09,570
thing.

1079
00:43:09,850 --> 00:43:11,770
And that's where the flexibility of this thing

1080
00:43:11,770 --> 00:43:12,270
comes in.

1081
00:43:12,770 --> 00:43:13,770
You can do your own thing.

1082
00:43:13,850 --> 00:43:15,470
You can have a, in the example that

1083
00:43:15,470 --> 00:43:18,670
Nathan gives in his documentation is, is a

1084
00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:21,590
purpose of true fans slash hero.

1085
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:26,050
And you, you know, you could put as

1086
00:43:26,050 --> 00:43:28,550
a podcaster, you could put in an image

1087
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:31,310
with a purpose of true fans slash hero.

1088
00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:36,530
And that tells true fans, hey, hey, I

1089
00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:38,830
know that you have a hero image that

1090
00:43:38,830 --> 00:43:42,490
requires this sizing and here's, here it is,

1091
00:43:42,530 --> 00:43:43,510
I'm giving it to you.

1092
00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:46,690
This is the thing that you want and

1093
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:47,410
here it is.

1094
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:51,830
And so true fans could hook into that

1095
00:43:51,830 --> 00:43:55,110
and get the thing it wants.

1096
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:58,450
And if it doesn't see that image, it

1097
00:43:58,450 --> 00:44:00,550
can fall back to one of these other

1098
00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:01,930
things and try to make it fit.

1099
00:44:03,150 --> 00:44:05,190
So the purpose to the purpose attribute is

1100
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:06,390
extremely flexible.

1101
00:44:07,630 --> 00:44:11,350
I think it is really sort of the

1102
00:44:11,350 --> 00:44:14,990
magic that makes this whole thing really shine.

1103
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:21,890
So, and there's a whole list of use

1104
00:44:21,890 --> 00:44:25,110
cases there that show different ways to use,

1105
00:44:25,770 --> 00:44:27,050
you know, different ways to use it.

1106
00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:38,760
So I think it, and here's, so to,

1107
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,100
to sort of wrap up this, this discussion,

1108
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:53,190
if the, if the, the hurtful criticism type

1109
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:59,230
language can be left out, we can still

1110
00:44:59,230 --> 00:45:03,920
get to this same place and also enjoy

1111
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:04,620
the process.

1112
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:14,420
I think that if we can agree to

1113
00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:23,740
formalize this, this tag, then I agree that

1114
00:45:23,740 --> 00:45:27,060
this is a better tag than what podcast

1115
00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:32,060
images was, but I really don't think that

1116
00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:34,120
we had to get here in this fashion.

1117
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:35,500
Amen.

1118
00:45:38,060 --> 00:45:41,540
And so that's pretty much all I think

1119
00:45:41,540 --> 00:45:43,500
I'm going to say about that from here

1120
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:43,980
on out.

1121
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,240
I just, it's just going to be, I

1122
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:47,540
don't really want to talk about this anymore.

1123
00:45:47,700 --> 00:45:49,400
I just want to have a discussion about

1124
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:50,020
the technology.

1125
00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:50,500
Right.

1126
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,180
Well, I just need to say one more

1127
00:45:52,180 --> 00:45:52,360
thing.

1128
00:45:52,380 --> 00:45:52,600
Sorry.

1129
00:45:54,060 --> 00:45:59,540
We have multiple, we have people from multiple

1130
00:45:59,540 --> 00:46:05,740
cultural backgrounds and I had lived in the

1131
00:46:05,740 --> 00:46:08,720
UK, I lived in Germany and I even

1132
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:13,300
have to, I, Comicstripblogger is my best example.

1133
00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:16,960
It took me over a decade to get

1134
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,120
used to how he speaks.

1135
00:46:20,780 --> 00:46:23,680
Everybody just be aware that how you may

1136
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:28,900
speak or, you know, the cultural way that

1137
00:46:28,900 --> 00:46:31,300
you communicate may land differently with others.

1138
00:46:32,140 --> 00:46:33,380
And so what you may think is not

1139
00:46:33,380 --> 00:46:37,000
very offensive or, you know, just be a

1140
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,100
little, a little more thoughtful with how, I'm

1141
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:40,720
guilty of this too, by the way.

1142
00:46:42,820 --> 00:46:45,540
And so that sometimes we forget about that

1143
00:46:45,540 --> 00:46:47,220
because I'd see Moritz posting something.

1144
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,500
I'm like, ah, and I have to remind

1145
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:51,820
myself, oh, he's German and Germans have a

1146
00:46:51,820 --> 00:46:52,960
different way of communicating.

1147
00:46:53,060 --> 00:46:54,540
Very similar to the Dutch, by the way,

1148
00:46:54,540 --> 00:46:56,960
which can be sometimes direct and harsh.

1149
00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:58,800
And Comicstripblogger is the best example.

1150
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,500
He needs a Chad GPT translator when he

1151
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:02,960
posts, you know, it's like, come on, man.

1152
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,320
So there's just some of that.

1153
00:47:05,660 --> 00:47:08,400
Anyway, backslash on that.

1154
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:10,700
I can take it.

1155
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,960
I can take this one step further into

1156
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,360
something that we, that I've been thinking about

1157
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:18,740
that goes along with the image thing.

1158
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,120
And I think it's probably a good example

1159
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,020
of how this new version of the image

1160
00:47:24,020 --> 00:47:25,760
tag would be useful.

1161
00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:27,840
And it's got to do with what we

1162
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:33,520
were talking about within Godcaster and some of

1163
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,080
the other things we've been saying with True

1164
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:40,600
Fans, sort of the Rachel Maddow page.

1165
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,380
I think one good thing about if we

1166
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:56,300
can agree to formalize this tag is, let

1167
00:47:56,300 --> 00:47:58,940
me post this in the boardroom.

1168
00:47:59,100 --> 00:47:59,420
Hang on.

1169
00:47:59,560 --> 00:47:59,880
Let's see.

1170
00:47:59,940 --> 00:48:00,960
Let me post this URL.

1171
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:04,180
Paste.

1172
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:06,640
Okay.

1173
00:48:06,940 --> 00:48:13,520
So if you go here, this is Apple's

1174
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,460
channel for focus on the family.

1175
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:17,960
Okay.

1176
00:48:18,060 --> 00:48:21,900
For their organization, this is their channel and

1177
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:24,100
it contains all of their shows.

1178
00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:29,920
Maybe you can put that in the show

1179
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:30,900
notes or something that way.

1180
00:48:31,180 --> 00:48:31,280
Yeah.

1181
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:32,580
You got it.

1182
00:48:32,660 --> 00:48:32,780
Okay.

1183
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,500
This is what we're trying to replicate with

1184
00:48:38,500 --> 00:48:41,060
the publisher feed, the publisher medium.

1185
00:48:42,460 --> 00:48:45,080
And I think in order to make something

1186
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,340
like this work, to get a similar effect

1187
00:48:49,340 --> 00:48:53,240
in something like True Fans or Podverse and

1188
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:56,360
these various apps, I think Fountain would probably

1189
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,660
want to do this as well.

1190
00:49:00,180 --> 00:49:02,500
Stephen B with Ellen Beats.

1191
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:04,960
In order to get something like this, where

1192
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,380
you have a channel of shows with nice

1193
00:49:08,380 --> 00:49:10,700
artwork that makes sense, like this big image

1194
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:11,300
at the top.

1195
00:49:11,860 --> 00:49:15,940
I think that can be a very good

1196
00:49:15,940 --> 00:49:18,820
use case for the image tag, for the

1197
00:49:18,820 --> 00:49:20,240
new version of the image tag.

1198
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,280
So you would have like, you know, you'd

1199
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,660
be able to specify in your publisher feed,

1200
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:32,820
your publisher medium feed, here's the art that

1201
00:49:32,820 --> 00:49:37,260
builds this quote unquote channel or this publisher

1202
00:49:37,260 --> 00:49:38,640
display.

1203
00:49:39,940 --> 00:49:42,080
So then you would see that big art

1204
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,120
and you would see all the different assets

1205
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:45,060
that go along with it.

1206
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:50,460
Maybe even a motion hero movie type thing.

1207
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:53,180
And I think that's enough.

1208
00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:58,540
If we can formalize this tag, then we

1209
00:49:58,540 --> 00:50:04,120
can then go a little bit further and

1210
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:09,500
combine with some documentation that says, here's how

1211
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:14,500
if you want to do a distributed open

1212
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:19,660
source version of a quote channel, then here's

1213
00:50:19,660 --> 00:50:20,300
how you do it.

1214
00:50:20,340 --> 00:50:22,760
You create a publisher feed, you include this,

1215
00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:25,320
you include the image tag with these purposes

1216
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:26,600
and blah, blah, blah.

1217
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:27,960
And we can just sort of like build

1218
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,620
out a document that describes how to make

1219
00:50:31,620 --> 00:50:35,480
the equivalent of an Apple channel, but for

1220
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,340
everybody else, not just Apple.

1221
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:40,200
Yeah, man, this is good.

1222
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:41,680
This is, I'm glad you brought this one

1223
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:42,080
up.

1224
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:44,160
Because the public, we all know, I mean,

1225
00:50:44,180 --> 00:50:45,700
that's why we built the publisher feed, because

1226
00:50:45,700 --> 00:50:48,360
we know it's the, is your favorite word.

1227
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,260
It's the substrate that everything, you know, that,

1228
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,320
that you, that we can build this thing

1229
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:54,980
on, but then we need some sort of

1230
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,780
documentation that says, here's how you kind of

1231
00:50:58,780 --> 00:51:00,380
build the display of it.

1232
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,060
But I think, but I don't, none of

1233
00:51:06,060 --> 00:51:08,060
the, none of the other sort of image

1234
00:51:08,060 --> 00:51:10,860
stuff we have really seems to fit that,

1235
00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:13,380
but this would.

1236
00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:16,400
I like it.

1237
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:18,280
Yeah, I like it.

1238
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:18,760
It's needed.

1239
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:19,620
Just thinking out loud.

1240
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,880
And even just looking at this focus page,

1241
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,640
like obviously what is happening at the top

1242
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,420
in that banner is not what they want

1243
00:51:26,420 --> 00:51:26,960
it to be.

1244
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,400
Yeah, I don't, I wouldn't think so.

1245
00:51:30,940 --> 00:51:32,820
No, but that's probably just, you know, reasons,

1246
00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:33,180
right?

1247
00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:35,660
Just whatever, however, Apple is doing that.

1248
00:51:36,460 --> 00:51:36,900
Yeah.

1249
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,380
It makes it difficult for them to get

1250
00:51:38,380 --> 00:51:39,380
a nice image in there.

1251
00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:40,420
Yeah.

1252
00:51:40,420 --> 00:51:43,140
We could define what like sort of a

1253
00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:45,240
standard for, for what this is and we

1254
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:46,760
don't have to create it from scratch.

1255
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,620
We can do exactly what James has said

1256
00:51:49,620 --> 00:51:52,520
and we can use the existing specs that

1257
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,320
are out there because there's a few, you

1258
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,880
know, this, you know, like Apple spec also,

1259
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,840
it just, it defines what these things can

1260
00:51:58,840 --> 00:51:59,620
sizes.

1261
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:01,560
So I want to talk about the lit

1262
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:02,300
tag for a second.

1263
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:03,520
Yeah, let's do it.

1264
00:52:03,620 --> 00:52:08,140
I'm going to champion this for personal reasons,

1265
00:52:08,140 --> 00:52:10,420
but also for broader reasons.

1266
00:52:10,580 --> 00:52:14,040
The lit tag is getting attention.

1267
00:52:14,660 --> 00:52:17,320
In fact, I have a meeting next, I

1268
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:24,820
think, I think Wednesday with Soundstack who run

1269
00:52:24,820 --> 00:52:26,740
live 365 and other things.

1270
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:27,540
No, yeah.

1271
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,880
The lit tag is an enormous opportunity and

1272
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,980
I'll just tell you one opportunity right off

1273
00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:36,700
the bat because there's not a lot of

1274
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:38,460
apps that support it yet.

1275
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:46,720
So in Godcaster, which now has 249 stations

1276
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:52,340
and frequencies, in Godcaster we give the ability

1277
00:52:52,340 --> 00:52:55,120
for people to, for a station to have

1278
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,340
its own RSS feed.

1279
00:52:57,180 --> 00:52:59,140
And so when you click on that, you

1280
00:52:59,140 --> 00:53:01,160
know, subscribe on your podcast app button in

1281
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,860
the Godcaster, it pops up a list of

1282
00:53:03,860 --> 00:53:05,500
recommended podcast players.

1283
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,320
Lo and behold, the ones that understand the

1284
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,000
lit tag are featured.

1285
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,840
So, and these stations are going to start

1286
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,060
educating their listeners, we hope, because that's always

1287
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:21,400
the biggest, the biggest bottleneck.

1288
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:24,660
But we're doing it with the interface to

1289
00:53:24,660 --> 00:53:26,700
say, hey, these are the podcast apps that

1290
00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:29,700
are recommended for this feed that we're giving

1291
00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:29,840
you.

1292
00:53:30,020 --> 00:53:31,360
Now, down at the bottom, we also have

1293
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,580
Apple because you can still, any podcast app

1294
00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:36,940
will be able to subscribe to the feed,

1295
00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:38,020
just don't get the live.

1296
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,900
And these radio stations are begging for live

1297
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:42,680
in the car.

1298
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,220
And they're going off building their own apps

1299
00:53:45,220 --> 00:53:47,800
with all kinds of, with varying results, I

1300
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:48,860
should say.

1301
00:53:49,540 --> 00:53:51,400
It's kind of like, you know, where there's

1302
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,080
a need, a bunch of people pop up

1303
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:54,280
with picks and shovels.

1304
00:53:54,780 --> 00:53:58,740
And quite honestly, I'm underwhelmed with what the

1305
00:53:58,740 --> 00:53:59,820
app companies are doing.

1306
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:01,760
They basically have a shell, they throw in

1307
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,280
some, you know, WordPress page and some other

1308
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,880
things, and then they'll do a listen live,

1309
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,380
which is the equivalent to a radio station

1310
00:54:09,380 --> 00:54:11,400
website that has listen live, a button at

1311
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:11,780
the top.

1312
00:54:12,620 --> 00:54:15,400
But people are looking for a better in

1313
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:16,360
-car experience.

1314
00:54:16,460 --> 00:54:17,720
And this is, this is a great way

1315
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:19,260
to get people to use your app.

1316
00:54:19,740 --> 00:54:22,160
So consider adding the lit tag.

1317
00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:25,100
I would hope that Apple is listening because

1318
00:54:25,100 --> 00:54:27,680
man, could they, they could change their lives,

1319
00:54:27,820 --> 00:54:29,080
but okay.

1320
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,040
And for hosting companies, there was a discussion

1321
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,080
on podcast weekly review about this and how,

1322
00:54:36,940 --> 00:54:42,380
and I fundamentally disagree, you know, not everybody's

1323
00:54:42,380 --> 00:54:45,940
dumb or lazy in America.

1324
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,440
I met a lot of people who were

1325
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,760
very animated and very excited and want to

1326
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:51,720
figure things out.

1327
00:54:53,220 --> 00:54:56,620
So hosting companies just may not want to

1328
00:54:56,620 --> 00:54:58,760
add this capability to their, you know, of

1329
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,180
a, of an ice cast server, but you

1330
00:55:01,180 --> 00:55:01,800
can do deals.

1331
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:03,600
You can do deals with all kinds of

1332
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,500
companies to integrate that into the workflow for

1333
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:08,260
somebody who wants to go live.

1334
00:55:09,220 --> 00:55:11,840
It's a, it's a, it's an integral part

1335
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,360
of podcasting these days.

1336
00:55:13,540 --> 00:55:14,760
Going live is a thing.

1337
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,420
It will be very easy for someone who

1338
00:55:18,420 --> 00:55:19,840
may even be just doing it on YouTube.

1339
00:55:20,180 --> 00:55:22,540
I mean, it works in reverse, you know,

1340
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,220
Hey, I'm, I'm going live on rumble.

1341
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:26,120
I'm going live on YouTube and I'm going

1342
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,060
live in these podcast apps.

1343
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,060
It's worth adding it to your app and

1344
00:55:31,060 --> 00:55:33,520
it's worth considering it for your hosting service.

1345
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,520
And I'm just going to remind everybody, every

1346
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,660
single show lit is the future.

1347
00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:40,480
Yeah.

1348
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,980
And, uh, Franco's working on it.

1349
00:55:43,060 --> 00:55:43,920
Of course he is.

1350
00:55:44,660 --> 00:55:49,140
I mean, there's this it's, it's going.

1351
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:49,700
It is.

1352
00:55:49,860 --> 00:55:53,040
And, and, and, you know, and obviously, uh,

1353
00:55:53,140 --> 00:55:55,440
episodes dot FM, but we'll add it as

1354
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:55,660
well.

1355
00:55:55,700 --> 00:55:56,760
It pops you to the top.

1356
00:55:56,820 --> 00:55:58,240
You know, every single time I go live

1357
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:00,540
with no agenda, I send a episodes dot

1358
00:56:00,540 --> 00:56:01,140
FM link.

1359
00:56:01,220 --> 00:56:03,340
Let me see what actually that looks like.

1360
00:56:03,420 --> 00:56:07,420
And I think, uh, episodes dot FM, uh,

1361
00:56:07,420 --> 00:56:09,540
just show for the, if I'm, if I'm,

1362
00:56:09,540 --> 00:56:13,160
uh, promoting a lit tag, it pops up

1363
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,080
and we also have, uh, episodes dot FM

1364
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,100
in our list on that Godcaster.

1365
00:56:17,700 --> 00:56:18,880
Let me see what it shows.

1366
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:19,640
So it shows, yeah.

1367
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,180
LM beats podcast at a Curie caster fountain,

1368
00:56:22,340 --> 00:56:24,960
true fans, pod verse, podcast guru, get your

1369
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:25,820
app in that list.

1370
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:26,220
People.

1371
00:56:26,860 --> 00:56:27,260
Yes.

1372
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:27,960
That's where you want.

1373
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:28,800
This is where you want to be.

1374
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,200
That's free promotion, free promotion for you.

1375
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:33,520
Should we play a song?

1376
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:35,020
Oh yeah.

1377
00:56:35,020 --> 00:56:35,440
That'd be great.

1378
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:35,740
Yeah.

1379
00:56:35,780 --> 00:56:36,620
It's a short one.

1380
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,320
Uh, this was recorded at the slow flower

1381
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:42,920
studio.

1382
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,220
I believe that's somewhere in, I don't know

1383
00:56:45,220 --> 00:56:46,180
if I'm pronouncing it right.

1384
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:47,300
S L O E.

1385
00:56:47,420 --> 00:56:48,400
I think that's slow.

1386
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:50,200
I think so.

1387
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:51,540
S L O E.

1388
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,380
S L O E.

1389
00:56:52,420 --> 00:56:52,620
Yeah.

1390
00:56:53,220 --> 00:56:54,180
I think so.

1391
00:56:54,340 --> 00:56:55,180
Someone will have to correct me.

1392
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:56,780
Uh, it was performed live.

1393
00:56:56,780 --> 00:56:59,240
This is, uh, Joe Martin, who was the

1394
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:01,400
first value for value artist we played.

1395
00:57:01,780 --> 00:57:05,720
This is stranger, so lovers stayed in, gone

1396
00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:07,660
left instead of right.

1397
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,820
I've done a thousand things instead of meeting

1398
00:57:11,820 --> 00:57:14,120
you that night.

1399
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,400
You could have called a friend.

1400
00:57:18,140 --> 00:57:20,520
You could have called a quiz.

1401
00:57:21,260 --> 00:57:28,360
You could have walked home before midnight, but

1402
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,940
you didn't.

1403
00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:33,780
It happened in a minute and you almost

1404
00:57:33,780 --> 00:57:35,100
passed me by.

1405
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,760
I was holding the door.

1406
00:57:39,220 --> 00:57:44,120
When you threw me a smile, life's twists

1407
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,700
and turns lift us where we began.

1408
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,480
We went from strangers to lovers and back

1409
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,620
to strangers again.

1410
00:57:55,560 --> 00:58:00,580
It can all change so damn fast.

1411
00:58:01,220 --> 00:58:05,940
Our future plans became your past.

1412
00:58:06,900 --> 00:58:11,820
What I miss the most don't sound like

1413
00:58:11,820 --> 00:58:17,460
much, but it's calling your number, you picking

1414
00:58:17,460 --> 00:58:17,920
up.

1415
00:58:20,220 --> 00:58:23,140
It only took an hour of an ordinary

1416
00:58:23,140 --> 00:58:29,220
night for you to steal my heart without

1417
00:58:29,220 --> 00:58:30,080
even trying.

1418
00:58:31,940 --> 00:58:35,860
Life's twists and turns lift us where we

1419
00:58:35,860 --> 00:58:37,040
began.

1420
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,500
We went from strangers to lovers and now

1421
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:43,920
we're strangers again.

1422
00:58:55,790 --> 00:58:58,830
It took about a year to know it

1423
00:58:58,830 --> 00:59:00,250
wasn't right.

1424
00:59:01,170 --> 00:59:03,410
I didn't want to change.

1425
00:59:03,970 --> 00:59:06,650
You didn't want to fight.

1426
00:59:07,570 --> 00:59:11,550
Life's twists and turns lift us where we

1427
00:59:11,550 --> 00:59:12,490
began.

1428
00:59:13,810 --> 00:59:17,430
We went from strangers to lovers and back

1429
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:19,650
to strangers again.

1430
00:59:20,450 --> 00:59:24,610
From strangers to lovers and now we're strangers

1431
00:59:24,610 --> 00:59:26,730
again.

1432
00:59:31,950 --> 00:59:35,370
Very mindful, very demure.

1433
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:37,130
Joe Martin.

1434
00:59:37,610 --> 00:59:37,950
Hashtag.

1435
00:59:38,350 --> 00:59:39,490
I love that guy.

1436
00:59:40,130 --> 00:59:41,750
Beautiful songs.

1437
00:59:42,210 --> 00:59:45,190
The British never sound British when they sing.

1438
00:59:45,930 --> 00:59:49,550
Oh, I mean, he speaks very British, like

1439
00:59:49,550 --> 00:59:52,670
Northern British when he speaks.

1440
00:59:53,290 --> 00:59:53,390
Yeah.

1441
00:59:53,490 --> 00:59:58,470
Well, that's the beauty of the English language.

1442
00:59:59,450 --> 01:00:01,690
Whenever you sing it, it just sounds better

1443
01:00:01,690 --> 01:00:02,510
in American English.

1444
01:00:02,710 --> 01:00:03,330
Can't help it.

1445
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:07,870
Everybody's American when they sing.

1446
01:00:07,970 --> 01:00:08,450
That's right.

1447
01:00:09,730 --> 01:00:10,170
American.

1448
01:00:10,410 --> 01:00:11,810
America, baby, America.

1449
01:00:12,690 --> 01:00:13,730
Let's see, what else did you have, Dave?

1450
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:16,170
Anything else to talk about on the list?

1451
01:00:17,050 --> 01:00:19,830
By the way, I want to thank Sam

1452
01:00:19,830 --> 01:00:23,110
for interviewing us and James did a good

1453
01:00:23,110 --> 01:00:23,450
edit.

1454
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:26,610
I'm always like, oh man, you know, they

1455
01:00:26,610 --> 01:00:29,010
take 45 minutes down to, I don't know,

1456
01:00:29,210 --> 01:00:31,910
17 or something like that, but it was

1457
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:32,110
good.

1458
01:00:32,290 --> 01:00:32,690
It's magical.

1459
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:36,650
Yeah, it got across the message and I

1460
01:00:36,650 --> 01:00:39,310
know they released the full interview as well.

1461
01:00:39,390 --> 01:00:39,830
That was great.

1462
01:00:39,890 --> 01:00:40,330
It was good.

1463
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:43,310
We even got someone wanting a demo right

1464
01:00:43,310 --> 01:00:44,790
after the show came out.

1465
01:00:44,910 --> 01:00:45,670
So it worked.

1466
01:00:45,770 --> 01:00:46,010
Thank you.

1467
01:00:46,110 --> 01:00:46,270
Oh, really?

1468
01:00:46,490 --> 01:00:47,010
Yeah, that's cool.

1469
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:47,290
Yeah.

1470
01:00:49,230 --> 01:00:53,430
There's a, there's probably, there's someone I do

1471
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:54,570
want to talk about with Franco.

1472
01:00:55,170 --> 01:01:01,910
So he emailed me and he brought up

1473
01:01:01,910 --> 01:01:02,690
Castamatic.

1474
01:01:03,290 --> 01:01:03,550
Yes.

1475
01:01:03,550 --> 01:01:04,010
I'm sorry.

1476
01:01:04,170 --> 01:01:04,350
Yes.

1477
01:01:04,410 --> 01:01:04,790
Yeah.

1478
01:01:04,810 --> 01:01:05,910
Franco from Castamatic.

1479
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:07,550
Everybody loves Franco.

1480
01:01:08,890 --> 01:01:10,890
Of course, everybody loves their doctor.

1481
01:01:15,210 --> 01:01:19,590
He brought up an issue that, that I've

1482
01:01:19,590 --> 01:01:26,830
honestly never considered and I really don't know

1483
01:01:26,830 --> 01:01:27,710
how to solve it.

1484
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:34,560
And so it's this, it, our, our feed

1485
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,000
is a, our podcast is a perfect example

1486
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:37,380
of this.

1487
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,320
So if you go, let's see, www.podcastindex

1488
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,820
.com.org, excuse me.

1489
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:45,760
You still www.

1490
01:01:47,980 --> 01:01:49,600
I don't know.

1491
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:55,540
I remember when the advertising industry back in

1492
01:01:55,540 --> 01:01:58,380
the late nineties would say dub, dub, dub.

1493
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,400
Oh, that's like pod.

1494
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,440
Dub, dub, dub.

1495
01:02:03,820 --> 01:02:05,420
Please never say that.

1496
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:06,080
No, no.

1497
01:02:08,060 --> 01:02:08,580
Okay.

1498
01:02:08,580 --> 01:02:10,800
So if you go to podcastindex.org and

1499
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,240
search for a podcast, our show podcasting2.0,

1500
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:16,980
we're for some reason, we're number six in

1501
01:02:16,980 --> 01:02:17,460
the list.

1502
01:02:18,820 --> 01:02:20,400
So if you go down there, you, what

1503
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,000
you see is mp3s.nashownotes.com.

1504
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:25,480
That's our URL.

1505
01:02:25,860 --> 01:02:26,060
Yeah.

1506
01:02:26,610 --> 01:02:27,000
Okay.

1507
01:02:27,100 --> 01:02:30,220
Well, if you click that, you get forwarded

1508
01:02:30,220 --> 01:02:34,760
to feeds.podcastindex.org slash pc20.xml. Yes.

1509
01:02:37,350 --> 01:02:46,400
So if, if somebody subscribes using this URL,

1510
01:02:46,740 --> 01:02:49,360
the mp3 dot, yeah, no, no, no.

1511
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:54,100
If somebody subscribes using feeds.podcastindex.org in

1512
01:02:54,100 --> 01:03:02,020
their Castamatic and then Castamatic checks with the

1513
01:03:02,020 --> 01:03:07,820
index to, it tries to look up a

1514
01:03:07,820 --> 01:03:10,780
show in the index using feeds.podcastindex.org

1515
01:03:10,780 --> 01:03:13,160
slash pc20.xml. It gets nothing.

1516
01:03:13,380 --> 01:03:16,540
It gets nothing because that's not the URL

1517
01:03:16,540 --> 01:03:17,720
we have for the show.

1518
01:03:17,940 --> 01:03:22,860
The URL we have is the pre-forwarded

1519
01:03:23,900 --> 01:03:28,560
is the 302 redirect.

1520
01:03:30,380 --> 01:03:32,920
So that's a problem.

1521
01:03:35,260 --> 01:03:37,060
I mean, I don't, I don't know how

1522
01:03:37,060 --> 01:03:41,780
to fix that because I mean, it's really

1523
01:03:41,780 --> 01:03:46,720
not, did you see what I mean?

1524
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:50,240
Like I don't, if you know, if you're

1525
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:51,560
trying to do sort of like a reverse

1526
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:56,860
lookup this way from a destination URL to

1527
01:03:56,860 --> 01:03:58,360
a canonical URL.

1528
01:03:58,820 --> 01:04:01,600
How do you find the destination or the

1529
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:02,460
origin?

1530
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:04,360
Yeah.

1531
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:06,220
Where do you find where the thing came

1532
01:04:06,220 --> 01:04:06,740
from?

1533
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:09,300
I don't know.

1534
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:11,100
I don't know.

1535
01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:12,600
I don't know how to solve that.

1536
01:04:12,900 --> 01:04:14,640
I mean, I don't know.

1537
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,160
Now the index database, the index database does

1538
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:27,230
have a column in the feeds table called,

1539
01:04:27,350 --> 01:04:29,650
so there's two, there's two URL columns in

1540
01:04:29,650 --> 01:04:30,330
the feeds table.

1541
01:04:33,550 --> 01:04:37,250
Well, you can't look in the DNS, Dreb,

1542
01:04:37,350 --> 01:04:41,310
you can't, the DNS reverse lookup record doesn't

1543
01:04:41,310 --> 01:04:42,490
have the full URL though.

1544
01:04:42,570 --> 01:04:43,250
So it doesn't help.

1545
01:04:44,370 --> 01:04:49,330
So if you like, there's two columns in

1546
01:04:49,330 --> 01:04:52,010
the index database for URL.

1547
01:04:53,130 --> 01:04:57,710
One of them is just called URL.

1548
01:04:58,010 --> 01:05:00,690
The other one's called original URL.

1549
01:05:02,070 --> 01:05:06,050
And so the, like what, what we've been

1550
01:05:06,050 --> 01:05:15,880
using is what we've been using is, so

1551
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,700
the URL is the current URL that we

1552
01:05:17,700 --> 01:05:18,300
have listed.

1553
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,420
The original URL is like, if they've moved

1554
01:05:21,420 --> 01:05:23,320
from one host to another, that was their

1555
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:24,280
previous host.

1556
01:05:25,540 --> 01:05:29,080
So what we could do is, you know,

1557
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:34,220
replace that original URL field with the, you

1558
01:05:34,220 --> 01:05:35,700
know, we could, we could put both in

1559
01:05:35,700 --> 01:05:37,400
there and that way they would return if

1560
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:38,300
looked up for both.

1561
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,900
But what if it has like three redirects?

1562
01:05:44,020 --> 01:05:44,120
Yeah.

1563
01:05:44,220 --> 01:05:45,040
I don't know.

1564
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:46,100
I don't know what to do with that.

1565
01:05:46,140 --> 01:05:48,020
This, this kind of feeds into a question

1566
01:05:48,020 --> 01:05:49,620
I've had and I've sent it to you

1567
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:51,140
on email, but I'm sure it goes into

1568
01:05:51,140 --> 01:05:53,060
the big podcast index bin.

1569
01:05:53,780 --> 01:05:56,480
So sometimes people will request to have their

1570
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,460
original index entry.

1571
01:05:59,980 --> 01:06:02,900
So, you know, podcastindex.org slash whatever the

1572
01:06:02,900 --> 01:06:08,020
number is for me to replace their RSS

1573
01:06:08,020 --> 01:06:10,340
URL with the new RSS URL.

1574
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,060
And sometimes I can, and sometimes I can't.

1575
01:06:14,300 --> 01:06:16,580
And I can't figure out why I sometimes

1576
01:06:16,580 --> 01:06:17,740
can't change it.

1577
01:06:18,020 --> 01:06:22,640
The reason sometimes you can't is because there's

1578
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,780
already a feed, a dead feed in the

1579
01:06:25,780 --> 01:06:27,700
index with that same URL.

1580
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:28,100
Right.

1581
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,140
I figured, but I thought that the dead

1582
01:06:30,140 --> 01:06:33,360
feed URL would then no longer be recognized.

1583
01:06:33,500 --> 01:06:34,440
It was marked dead.

1584
01:06:35,620 --> 01:06:37,880
It's still an, it's still a unique index

1585
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:38,640
in the database.

1586
01:06:39,100 --> 01:06:39,700
Okay.

1587
01:06:39,820 --> 01:06:44,120
So it's, it's, it's, it's my lazy programming

1588
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:46,280
that it's not telling you that more clearly.

1589
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,480
Well, I understood it, but how do I

1590
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:49,120
fix it?

1591
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:55,680
You fix it by, you fix it by,

1592
01:06:56,620 --> 01:06:58,200
well, I'm going to have to fix it

1593
01:06:58,200 --> 01:06:59,360
because I'm going to have to fix it

1594
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:00,040
by changing it.

1595
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,200
Oh wait, can I, as an example, on

1596
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:04,500
the dead, how about this?

1597
01:07:04,580 --> 01:07:07,460
On the dead, on the, the entry that's

1598
01:07:07,460 --> 01:07:10,020
marked dead, can I change the URL there

1599
01:07:10,020 --> 01:07:12,800
to some, you know, foobar thing and then

1600
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,440
go and change the new one and then

1601
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:17,980
go back and change the old one?

1602
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,020
No, you can, but I'm going to have

1603
01:07:20,020 --> 01:07:21,480
to make it where that shows up.

1604
01:07:21,540 --> 01:07:22,100
Oh, okay.

1605
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:24,560
Well, I'm just, I just want to make

1606
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:25,380
it easy for you.

1607
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:26,900
So I don't have to send those requests

1608
01:07:26,900 --> 01:07:27,360
to you.

1609
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:28,960
It's okay.

1610
01:07:29,100 --> 01:07:31,040
I'm, I'm going to have to just change

1611
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:32,800
that in the dashboard where you can go

1612
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,460
to make it where, when it does that,

1613
01:07:35,580 --> 01:07:38,140
it tells you what's happening and then gives

1614
01:07:38,140 --> 01:07:39,360
you a link to go to that other

1615
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:40,180
one to change it.

1616
01:07:40,220 --> 01:07:40,740
Oh, okay.

1617
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:44,340
Or something like that, some sort of way.

1618
01:07:44,460 --> 01:07:46,140
It happens maybe twice a month, so it's

1619
01:07:46,140 --> 01:07:48,920
not a huge thing, but it's a thing.

1620
01:07:50,140 --> 01:07:50,700
You're right.

1621
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,180
Like Nathan and Daniel and, and, uh, and

1622
01:07:53,180 --> 01:07:57,740
Eric are saying, you know, and, and Cotton

1623
01:07:57,740 --> 01:07:59,620
Gin are just saying, they're all giving good,

1624
01:08:01,260 --> 01:08:02,740
you know, that's the way the things you're

1625
01:08:02,740 --> 01:08:04,340
describing the way that, yeah, that's the way

1626
01:08:04,340 --> 01:08:05,180
it should work.

1627
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,940
But like, I don't, some people just come

1628
01:08:09,940 --> 01:08:12,060
in in a different way.

1629
01:08:12,300 --> 01:08:17,540
So like, if let's see, I'm trying to

1630
01:08:17,540 --> 01:08:20,939
remember why there was some reason.

1631
01:08:21,540 --> 01:08:24,319
Well, probably while we deleting a record probably

1632
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:27,899
requires a whole new table update or something.

1633
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:29,859
I'm sure it's some database overhead.

1634
01:08:29,859 --> 01:08:32,420
If you're deleting a record like that, um,

1635
01:08:32,859 --> 01:08:34,359
we're not deleting the record.

1636
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:36,899
We're just marking it with a dead flag.

1637
01:08:37,340 --> 01:08:37,540
Yeah.

1638
01:08:37,620 --> 01:08:37,740
Yeah.

1639
01:08:37,740 --> 01:08:38,140
Flag.

1640
01:08:39,180 --> 01:08:42,260
Um, let's see.

1641
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,580
I'm trying to remember back when we moved

1642
01:08:45,580 --> 01:08:50,580
from mp3.na show notes from void zero

1643
01:08:50,580 --> 01:08:55,600
CDN over to Linode object storage.

1644
01:08:57,140 --> 01:09:00,500
I'm trying to remember why we did a

1645
01:09:00,500 --> 01:09:03,819
302 redirect instead of a 301.

1646
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,800
Do you remember why?

1647
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,240
Let me hold on a second.

1648
01:09:09,399 --> 01:09:09,899
Let me see.

1649
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:11,260
Maybe this will help.

1650
01:09:12,340 --> 01:09:12,640
Okay.

1651
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:14,680
There's some reason why we didn't just change.

1652
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:16,279
Let's go back in time.

1653
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:17,319
Maybe this helps.

1654
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:19,460
Here we are.

1655
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:20,180
We're back in time.

1656
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:20,920
Do you remember now?

1657
01:09:21,899 --> 01:09:22,340
No.

1658
01:09:25,500 --> 01:09:25,939
Hmm.

1659
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:27,479
I don't remember.

1660
01:09:28,420 --> 01:09:29,580
There was some reason.

1661
01:09:30,580 --> 01:09:32,520
Well, I know why we did it.

1662
01:09:33,100 --> 01:09:34,779
And that was, we figured there were so

1663
01:09:34,779 --> 01:09:38,240
many people subscribed to mp3.na show notes

1664
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,300
.com that we didn't want to screw everybody

1665
01:09:41,300 --> 01:09:41,740
else up.

1666
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:42,620
So we just did a redirect.

1667
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:43,880
I don't know what kind of redirect we're

1668
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:44,460
doing though.

1669
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:45,899
I could probably look it up.

1670
01:09:45,899 --> 01:09:46,220
Yeah.

1671
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:47,120
I think it's a 302.

1672
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:47,700
Yeah.

1673
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:53,080
Um, so the, but see, if you have

1674
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:58,540
a 302, if you have a 302 and

1675
01:09:58,540 --> 01:10:04,500
somebody comes in, if somebody like, okay, if

1676
01:10:04,500 --> 01:10:06,780
I'm subscribed to mp3.na show notes.com

1677
01:10:06,780 --> 01:10:13,540
and then I want to give somebody, somebody,

1678
01:10:13,540 --> 01:10:15,120
if I want to give that URL to

1679
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,060
someone else, like if I want to share

1680
01:10:18,060 --> 01:10:21,320
it to somebody else and I just go

1681
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:23,620
in and grit and like, look it up

1682
01:10:23,620 --> 01:10:25,560
on my PC, click on it and we'll

1683
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:26,400
go to the address bar.

1684
01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:28,440
What I'm getting is the destination URL.

1685
01:10:29,220 --> 01:10:31,000
And I'm going to share that to this

1686
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:31,600
other person.

1687
01:10:31,740 --> 01:10:33,180
They're going to subscribe to it, but now

1688
01:10:33,180 --> 01:10:37,160
they're subscribing to the destination, not the read,

1689
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:40,720
not the, the mp3.na show notes.com.

1690
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,840
So it's just sort of like this accident

1691
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:45,900
that slowly leaks out over time.

1692
01:10:45,980 --> 01:10:47,320
You end up with this mix.

1693
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:53,200
Um, so I, it feels like to me,

1694
01:10:53,300 --> 01:10:56,060
um, well, we, we, we have a 302.

1695
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,280
Should we make that a permanent, uh, change,

1696
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,960
uh, to a, what is the permanent 301?

1697
01:11:03,420 --> 01:11:05,020
Uh, yeah, man, I guess we could.

1698
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:05,560
Yeah.

1699
01:11:05,620 --> 01:11:06,460
That would help.

1700
01:11:06,460 --> 01:11:08,540
We probably did it temporary just because we

1701
01:11:08,540 --> 01:11:09,680
were temporary.

1702
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:10,880
Yeah.

1703
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:11,260
Yeah.

1704
01:11:11,260 --> 01:11:12,460
Cause we would make sure we didn't break

1705
01:11:12,460 --> 01:11:12,860
anything.

1706
01:11:12,940 --> 01:11:13,180
Yeah.

1707
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:15,460
Um, it's like in case we needed to

1708
01:11:15,460 --> 01:11:16,180
say, Oh crap.

1709
01:11:16,180 --> 01:11:17,000
And roll it back.

1710
01:11:17,100 --> 01:11:17,260
You know?

1711
01:11:17,260 --> 01:11:17,480
Right.

1712
01:11:17,500 --> 01:11:17,800
Right.

1713
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:21,560
But I think, I think all of your

1714
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:22,680
feeds are that way now.

1715
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:24,360
I think they're all hosted.

1716
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,400
No, only no agenda and a podcasting 2

1717
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,740
.0. All the rest, I still use sovereign

1718
01:11:29,740 --> 01:11:35,180
feeds to uh, download the RSS file, drag

1719
01:11:35,180 --> 01:11:37,680
it into the FTP and then hit the

1720
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:37,900
pod.

1721
01:11:38,100 --> 01:11:38,300
Okay.

1722
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,520
You, you are also doing it for a

1723
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:42,480
MoFax too, right?

1724
01:11:42,740 --> 01:11:43,180
Same.

1725
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:48,380
Um, so I, I guess there's only one,

1726
01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:49,900
the only solution I can think of is

1727
01:11:49,900 --> 01:11:54,440
just to, for these, whenever one of these

1728
01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:56,280
feeds happens like this, we have to put

1729
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,460
in that alternate URL in the feed record.

1730
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:00,420
Right.

1731
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:02,880
I don't know any other way.

1732
01:12:02,980 --> 01:12:04,280
I don't know any solution for it.

1733
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,220
Cause like, why don't you just add another

1734
01:12:08,220 --> 01:12:08,680
column?

1735
01:12:09,500 --> 01:12:10,400
Let's do that.

1736
01:12:10,620 --> 01:12:12,400
Put a new table in, spin up another

1737
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:13,020
database.

1738
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,740
You add a new column to a table

1739
01:12:15,740 --> 01:12:18,880
that has, you know, 4 million records in

1740
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:19,000
it.

1741
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,020
And now you've locked to the database for

1742
01:12:21,020 --> 01:12:23,060
two hours, 30 minutes.

1743
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:23,400
Yeah.

1744
01:12:23,580 --> 01:12:23,960
Whatever.

1745
01:12:24,140 --> 01:12:24,780
Yeah, exactly.

1746
01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:25,460
Exactly.

1747
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:25,860
Yeah.

1748
01:12:25,860 --> 01:12:26,740
That's not fun.

1749
01:12:27,060 --> 01:12:30,260
Uh, and, and this, this, uh, this fantasy

1750
01:12:30,260 --> 01:12:32,480
where you can, uh, with my SQL eight,

1751
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,040
where you can add a columns without locking

1752
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:35,720
the database.

1753
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:37,040
That is a lie.

1754
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,760
That is a, that is not true.

1755
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:44,440
Like you, you basically don't, you read through

1756
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:46,620
the documentation and at the end of it,

1757
01:12:46,620 --> 01:12:48,780
by the time you're finished, you're like, Hmm.

1758
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,560
Only one way to find out run the

1759
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,360
command and click lock.

1760
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:55,440
Yep.

1761
01:12:55,500 --> 01:12:57,700
And you're like, okay, according to all the

1762
01:12:57,700 --> 01:12:59,100
documentation, this should work.

1763
01:12:59,140 --> 01:13:00,120
And you hit execute it.

1764
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:00,980
And you're like, dang it.

1765
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,420
I guess we're way, I guess I'm popping

1766
01:13:04,420 --> 01:13:04,940
popcorn.

1767
01:13:06,260 --> 01:13:07,640
Hey, should we thank some people?

1768
01:13:08,340 --> 01:13:08,980
Yeah, sure.

1769
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:09,440
Let's do it.

1770
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:09,700
Okay.

1771
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:11,600
We've got some nice boosts today coming in,

1772
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,860
uh, starting off with 1500 sats from Oystein

1773
01:13:14,860 --> 01:13:16,680
Berger coming in from podcast guru.

1774
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,660
And he, uh, boosted Joe Martin, the only

1775
01:13:19,660 --> 01:13:20,980
one so far on the live show.

1776
01:13:21,140 --> 01:13:22,120
Joe Martin makes music.

1777
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:22,380
Great.

1778
01:13:22,460 --> 01:13:24,160
Heard this on podcasting 2.0. Thank you.

1779
01:13:24,220 --> 01:13:24,660
Perfect.

1780
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:25,480
Perfect.

1781
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:26,240
Booster Graham.

1782
01:13:27,340 --> 01:13:27,780
Outstanding.

1783
01:13:27,900 --> 01:13:30,460
Cause that comes through even on, uh, if

1784
01:13:30,460 --> 01:13:32,680
you're, uh, if you're using a different kind

1785
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,540
of, if you're using LNURL pay and that,

1786
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,820
by the way, that's working, that's working real

1787
01:13:37,820 --> 01:13:38,080
well.

1788
01:13:38,100 --> 01:13:40,200
My strike wallet just is filling up with

1789
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:44,460
one sat streaming, uh, payments all the time.

1790
01:13:45,180 --> 01:13:46,920
It really does work well.

1791
01:13:47,700 --> 01:13:48,500
I did.

1792
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:50,960
I got, I jumped on the fountain, uh,

1793
01:13:51,780 --> 01:13:53,120
uh, the thing in Waco.

1794
01:13:53,580 --> 01:13:54,060
Oh yeah.

1795
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:54,600
How was that?

1796
01:13:54,660 --> 01:13:55,280
I missed that.

1797
01:13:55,340 --> 01:13:55,980
I was at NRB.

1798
01:13:56,060 --> 01:13:56,660
How was that?

1799
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:57,580
It was cool.

1800
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:58,480
Yeah, it was really cool.

1801
01:13:58,660 --> 01:14:00,840
I threw a few boosts into the mix.

1802
01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:01,000
Yeah.

1803
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:01,820
It was really neat.

1804
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:02,600
Excellent.

1805
01:14:02,740 --> 01:14:04,180
And always seen of course, takes over the

1806
01:14:04,180 --> 01:14:06,540
live stream right after the board meeting and,

1807
01:14:06,580 --> 01:14:09,140
uh, and plays his, uh, his crazy music.

1808
01:14:10,100 --> 01:14:12,320
Uh, Dreb Scott, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

1809
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:12,980
Thank you very much.

1810
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:14,800
Drabby says, Dave Jones, you are a scholar

1811
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:15,440
and a gentleman.

1812
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:17,340
We all love and appreciate you and your

1813
01:14:17,340 --> 01:14:17,800
efforts.

1814
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:19,800
Thank you.

1815
01:14:19,900 --> 01:14:20,280
It's true.

1816
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,300
A triple seven from Sam Sethi coming in

1817
01:14:23,300 --> 01:14:24,060
from true fans.

1818
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:25,580
As I said in my interview with you

1819
01:14:25,580 --> 01:14:28,260
both, it's a thankless task and I'm thankful

1820
01:14:28,260 --> 01:14:29,080
for you both.

1821
01:14:29,700 --> 01:14:31,240
That's not a thankless task.

1822
01:14:31,420 --> 01:14:33,920
Just sometimes gets a little, a little pressure

1823
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:34,360
-y.

1824
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:35,340
Yep.

1825
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:38,280
Uh, dude named Ben, Salty Crayon, 2, 3,

1826
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:40,260
4, 5 in the Satoshi land coming in

1827
01:14:40,260 --> 01:14:41,200
from CurioCaster.

1828
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,340
We're such a bunch of misfits volunteering on

1829
01:14:43,340 --> 01:14:44,220
a passion project.

1830
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,480
We love to improve on and break and

1831
01:14:46,480 --> 01:14:48,480
from time to time and break from time

1832
01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:48,920
to time.

1833
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:50,700
Karma plus plus for Dave.

1834
01:14:51,820 --> 01:14:52,740
Keep your chin up.

1835
01:14:52,780 --> 01:14:54,740
Dave says BR with a thousand sats.

1836
01:14:54,820 --> 01:14:56,220
You're a podcasting treasure.

1837
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,020
I don't know if I'd go that far.

1838
01:15:00,440 --> 01:15:02,900
Uh, Harvat came in with the 33 magic

1839
01:15:02,900 --> 01:15:03,220
number.

1840
01:15:03,340 --> 01:15:05,500
We heard that blasted in during your, uh,

1841
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:06,460
your soliloquy.

1842
01:15:06,580 --> 01:15:07,740
So I had to turn it down a

1843
01:15:07,740 --> 01:15:09,060
little bit, even 33,000.

1844
01:15:09,480 --> 01:15:09,640
Yes.

1845
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,160
The soliloquy that you were doing a soliloquy.

1846
01:15:12,620 --> 01:15:12,980
Yeah.

1847
01:15:12,980 --> 01:15:14,720
You've never heard of a soliloquy.

1848
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:15,280
Yeah.

1849
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:15,540
Yeah.

1850
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:15,780
I know.

1851
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:17,520
Soliloquizing.

1852
01:15:17,860 --> 01:15:20,360
That's, uh, that's what we called podcasting in

1853
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:20,940
the early days.

1854
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,040
It's a soliloquy.

1855
01:15:22,700 --> 01:15:25,140
Nah, it's just basic people talking to themselves.

1856
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:27,620
Soliloquizing.

1857
01:15:27,620 --> 01:15:28,040
Soliloquizing.

1858
01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:29,400
Almost made it.

1859
01:15:30,140 --> 01:15:32,600
Uh, 33,333 sats from Harvat.

1860
01:15:32,780 --> 01:15:33,060
Thank you.

1861
01:15:33,060 --> 01:15:33,360
Harvat.

1862
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,000
Bit punk FM, 42, 42.

1863
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:37,480
Just want to say thanks to y'all

1864
01:15:37,480 --> 01:15:38,140
in this community.

1865
01:15:38,300 --> 01:15:40,220
There's a lot of positivity in this community.

1866
01:15:40,380 --> 01:15:42,440
I did a lit poetry thing today and

1867
01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:44,240
the chat came out to help and support.

1868
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:45,820
Thanks for enabling this.

1869
01:15:45,900 --> 01:15:46,320
Uh, yes.

1870
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:47,600
Coming in from fountain there.

1871
01:15:48,180 --> 01:15:49,700
Uh, punk is a great name.

1872
01:15:49,780 --> 01:15:50,240
I just love it.

1873
01:15:50,420 --> 01:15:50,740
Good name.

1874
01:15:50,940 --> 01:15:51,180
Yeah.

1875
01:15:52,420 --> 01:15:55,100
1701 from Lyceum, which is Martin Lindeskog.

1876
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:56,480
He says, I'm glad to see you are

1877
01:15:56,480 --> 01:15:57,640
not lost in space.

1878
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,300
What is your spacecraft starship called?

1879
01:16:00,420 --> 01:16:03,360
I have a road connect TM podcasting software

1880
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:04,840
on my Mac book air M two.

1881
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:06,840
I want to hook up several road NT,

1882
01:16:07,020 --> 01:16:08,840
USB mini microphones to my laptop.

1883
01:16:09,220 --> 01:16:11,240
I got some kind of robotic sound in

1884
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:11,720
the recording.

1885
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:13,140
I am running with scissors.

1886
01:16:13,380 --> 01:16:15,280
All the best Martin Lindeskog.

1887
01:16:15,540 --> 01:16:19,180
I'm not, I have not, uh, not use

1888
01:16:19,180 --> 01:16:21,440
that set up, but I'm going to guess

1889
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:22,720
that has something to do with your Mac

1890
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:22,980
book.

1891
01:16:23,980 --> 01:16:26,540
Apple does strange things with the USB.

1892
01:16:27,620 --> 01:16:29,000
Uh, a hundred sats from none of your

1893
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:30,360
business, none of your bidness.

1894
01:16:30,740 --> 01:16:31,300
Thank you.

1895
01:16:31,460 --> 01:16:33,300
Just says howdy from, uh, from fountain.

1896
01:16:33,700 --> 01:16:35,460
Uh, another salty crayon boost.

1897
01:16:35,580 --> 01:16:37,900
33, 33 says bat signal Lima, Charlie.

1898
01:16:37,980 --> 01:16:38,580
Yes, indeed.

1899
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:40,700
And, uh, we hit the delimiter.

1900
01:16:41,580 --> 01:16:44,720
Oh, we got, um, well, I guess some

1901
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:48,220
of these monthlies, uh, these PayPal's are going

1902
01:16:48,220 --> 01:16:50,840
to be mixed in, uh, as in out

1903
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:55,360
of order, not in a, well, I didn't

1904
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:57,780
separate out the month, the, the monthlies from

1905
01:16:57,780 --> 01:17:00,740
those one-offs cause it's all, uh, didn't

1906
01:17:00,740 --> 01:17:01,840
have time to print them today.

1907
01:17:01,860 --> 01:17:03,840
Um, but I saw just run through all

1908
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:04,060
of them.

1909
01:17:04,140 --> 01:17:05,560
Kevin Bay, five bucks.

1910
01:17:05,580 --> 01:17:06,100
Thank you, Kevin.

1911
01:17:06,980 --> 01:17:07,660
Appreciate it.

1912
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:10,160
Chad Farrow, $20, 22 cents.

1913
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:12,020
Thank you, Chad, for everything that you do,

1914
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:12,260
brother.

1915
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:14,060
Cameron Rose, $25.

1916
01:17:14,540 --> 01:17:15,200
Thank you, Cameron.

1917
01:17:16,480 --> 01:17:17,580
Uh, new media.

1918
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,520
That's, um, Martin Lindesco.

1919
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:20,480
No.

1920
01:17:20,620 --> 01:17:21,700
Uh, one dollar, one dollar.

1921
01:17:21,820 --> 01:17:23,380
Is that Martin Lindesco new media?

1922
01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:24,380
Yeah, that's his thing.

1923
01:17:24,440 --> 01:17:24,540
Yeah.

1924
01:17:24,540 --> 01:17:25,280
It comes through.

1925
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:25,700
Okay.

1926
01:17:25,820 --> 01:17:26,380
Thank you, Martin.

1927
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:29,020
Uh, Mark Graham, $1.

1928
01:17:29,140 --> 01:17:29,900
Thank you, Mark.

1929
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,220
Uh, pod page, Brendan over there in the

1930
01:17:32,220 --> 01:17:34,340
gang is a pod page, $25.

1931
01:17:34,740 --> 01:17:35,020
Thank you.

1932
01:17:35,340 --> 01:17:35,560
Nice.

1933
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,380
Uh, 10 bucks from, uh, Ron McKinnon.

1934
01:17:39,480 --> 01:17:40,900
He says to help keep up the service.

1935
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:43,080
I use podcast index regularly.

1936
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:43,820
Thank you.

1937
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:44,360
All right.

1938
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:45,640
You're welcome, Ron.

1939
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:47,720
You are, uh, Randall black.

1940
01:17:47,980 --> 01:17:49,440
Hey, Randall, uh, five bucks.

1941
01:17:49,860 --> 01:17:50,420
Thank you, Randall.

1942
01:17:51,060 --> 01:17:53,060
And then we got some booster grams.

1943
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,400
Again, let me go down here to the

1944
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:56,700
bottom.

1945
01:17:57,260 --> 01:17:57,560
Okay.

1946
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,940
We got D Schwartz, row of ducks, 22,

1947
01:18:01,020 --> 01:18:02,080
22 through fountain.

1948
01:18:02,220 --> 01:18:03,400
He says, sorry if I missed you already

1949
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:05,360
mentioning DNS boost.

1950
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:07,160
All right.

1951
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:12,900
Uh, Bruce, the ugly quacking duck podcast, 22,

1952
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,040
22, a row of ducks podcast guru.

1953
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:16,100
He says, tech talk.

1954
01:18:16,500 --> 01:18:17,080
Enjoy it.

1955
01:18:17,140 --> 01:18:18,960
Even if I don't get it brought me

1956
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:20,280
into 2.0 podcasting.

1957
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:20,720
Thank you.

1958
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:21,320
All right.

1959
01:18:21,380 --> 01:18:21,820
You're welcome.

1960
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:22,640
You're welcome.

1961
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,140
Uh, D Schwartz, again, he says, uh, 22,

1962
01:18:25,220 --> 01:18:26,700
22, he says, why not start with something

1963
01:18:26,700 --> 01:18:27,240
like DNS?

1964
01:18:27,500 --> 01:18:30,560
Probably the best known distributed database as a

1965
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:31,880
start for the distributed index.

1966
01:18:33,220 --> 01:18:35,240
It just didn't.

1967
01:18:36,500 --> 01:18:38,480
If you try to add it, it's like

1968
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:39,960
a trash heap of everything.

1969
01:18:40,100 --> 01:18:40,900
Throw it into DNA.

1970
01:18:41,900 --> 01:18:43,580
It's just not built for that.

1971
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:47,520
Like you can't, I tried to do this

1972
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:48,300
with goods.

1973
01:18:48,660 --> 01:18:50,740
I tried to make a good lookup service

1974
01:18:50,740 --> 01:18:54,120
that was based on DNS and you would,

1975
01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:55,600
uh, and it worked.

1976
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:57,220
So you could, what you could do is

1977
01:18:57,220 --> 01:18:59,160
you could look up, you could put in

1978
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:03,800
a good dot, uh, it would be the

1979
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,880
good.good.podcastindex.org.

1980
01:19:07,480 --> 01:19:08,940
And what you would get back would be

1981
01:19:08,940 --> 01:19:15,140
a text, uh, entry of the URL of

1982
01:19:15,140 --> 01:19:15,760
the podcast.

1983
01:19:16,500 --> 01:19:19,660
And it worked, but what you're going to

1984
01:19:19,660 --> 01:19:21,280
end up with is like four and a

1985
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:22,960
half million DNS entries.

1986
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:26,240
It's just not, it's not scaleable.

1987
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:27,060
Yeah.

1988
01:19:28,700 --> 01:19:30,580
DHT is the way to go.

1989
01:19:30,780 --> 01:19:31,920
It's built for that.

1990
01:19:32,100 --> 01:19:35,320
You know, Kyron from mill mortals podcast, uh,

1991
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:37,100
or satchel Richards, uh, one, one, one, one.

1992
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:37,700
He's through fountain.

1993
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:40,140
He says, watching versus listening to podcasts.

1994
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:42,520
I feel the same applies to listening to

1995
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:44,240
audio books versus reading the book.

1996
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:46,500
I can usually tell if someone has taken

1997
01:19:46,500 --> 01:19:48,600
the time to sit and focus solely on

1998
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:51,620
the book versus listening likely while doing other

1999
01:19:51,620 --> 01:19:52,580
distracting tasks.

2000
01:19:52,700 --> 01:19:52,800
Yeah.

2001
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,520
By the way, at the NRB, a lot

2002
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,560
of people were interested in the audio books

2003
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:57,980
feature.

2004
01:19:58,480 --> 01:19:59,400
Oh, the medium.

2005
01:19:59,860 --> 01:20:00,400
Oh yeah.

2006
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:01,440
Oh my goodness.

2007
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:02,140
Yeah.

2008
01:20:02,300 --> 01:20:04,980
I showed different medium, uh, examples.

2009
01:20:05,420 --> 01:20:07,160
And when I said audio tech, do you,

2010
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,740
you did a tech, uh, I did presentation.

2011
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:10,420
Yeah, I did.

2012
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,880
And it, you know, no one threw anything

2013
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:13,340
at me.

2014
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:14,820
So it turned out okay.

2015
01:20:15,220 --> 01:20:16,860
But, um, yeah, a lot of people were

2016
01:20:16,860 --> 01:20:18,220
like, wow, I could do audio books in

2017
01:20:18,220 --> 01:20:18,460
this.

2018
01:20:18,460 --> 01:20:20,840
And like my pastor does audio books and

2019
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:22,200
I'm doing an audio book.

2020
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:23,860
And yeah, we can, uh, we can do

2021
01:20:23,860 --> 01:20:24,760
that for you.

2022
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:25,740
That's cool.

2023
01:20:26,620 --> 01:20:30,620
Um, cast peeling 2000 sats through fountain.

2024
01:20:30,780 --> 01:20:32,080
He says wallet was empty.

2025
01:20:32,220 --> 01:20:33,400
So a boost, let's see.

2026
01:20:33,660 --> 01:20:35,660
So a boost versus streaming says, thank you

2027
01:20:35,660 --> 01:20:36,120
for the work.

2028
01:20:36,220 --> 01:20:37,400
Thank you for the boost.

2029
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,460
Uh, let me make sure that I'm in

2030
01:20:40,460 --> 01:20:41,660
the right spot.

2031
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:43,940
And I am really comic strip bogger blogger

2032
01:20:43,940 --> 01:20:44,480
delimiter.

2033
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:47,920
Ah, comic strip bloggers open in the wallet.

2034
01:20:48,020 --> 01:20:53,400
37,000 sats, 37,026 sats through fountain.

2035
01:20:53,500 --> 01:20:56,600
He says, howdy fellow Gentiles, Adam and Dave.

2036
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:03,020
Today I'm sending you $33 to celebrate one

2037
01:21:03,020 --> 01:21:06,800
Oscar 2025 award to a real pain movie,

2038
01:21:06,900 --> 01:21:10,280
a movie about Jews, but set in Poland

2039
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:14,180
note, Poland still looks a little bleak because

2040
01:21:14,180 --> 01:21:16,960
it lost 6 million citizens murdered in years,

2041
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:21,480
1939 through 1945, including 3 million Polish Jews

2042
01:21:21,480 --> 01:21:24,920
like Roman Polanski and Jesse Eisenberg and 3

2043
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:28,180
million ethnic Poles like myself and Martha Stewart.

2044
01:21:31,390 --> 01:21:34,470
We're laughing about dead Jews calm down.

2045
01:21:35,470 --> 01:21:38,770
And Poland lost 40 years of economic development

2046
01:21:38,770 --> 01:21:42,930
under Soviet occupation after 1945, no Marshall plan

2047
01:21:42,930 --> 01:21:44,310
from USA, et cetera.

2048
01:21:44,670 --> 01:21:45,890
Yo CSB.

2049
01:21:46,150 --> 01:21:48,370
That's a depressing note from CSB.

2050
01:21:48,590 --> 01:21:53,710
Now I will say, interestingly enough, because of

2051
01:21:53,710 --> 01:21:56,270
his booster grams and he boosted into many

2052
01:21:56,270 --> 01:21:58,430
different shows, Curry and the keeper as well

2053
01:21:58,430 --> 01:22:01,050
about this movie, I watched it.

2054
01:22:02,190 --> 01:22:04,130
Um, it was a good, it's a very

2055
01:22:04,130 --> 01:22:05,390
cute movie.

2056
01:22:05,670 --> 01:22:08,870
I mean, it's a lighthearted comedy, I would

2057
01:22:08,870 --> 01:22:09,130
say.

2058
01:22:09,410 --> 01:22:11,710
And, uh, and I made the mistake because

2059
01:22:11,710 --> 01:22:13,230
the main, the mistake I made is because

2060
01:22:13,230 --> 01:22:14,630
Tina got mad at me because they're like,

2061
01:22:15,070 --> 01:22:16,810
you know, let's just watch the Academy Awards.

2062
01:22:17,450 --> 01:22:18,450
And like, don't, it'll get better.

2063
01:22:18,530 --> 01:22:19,250
Just hang in there.

2064
01:22:19,470 --> 01:22:21,550
And, you know, an hour later, something will

2065
01:22:21,550 --> 01:22:22,830
happen now it'll get better.

2066
01:22:23,370 --> 01:22:24,770
Nothing, nothing got better.

2067
01:22:25,290 --> 01:22:26,790
Uh, but it was fun to see Kiernan

2068
01:22:26,790 --> 01:22:29,970
Culkin, uh, when, uh, best supporting actor, it

2069
01:22:29,970 --> 01:22:33,110
is a very, uh, what's that term?

2070
01:22:33,230 --> 01:22:34,330
It's an endearing movie.

2071
01:22:34,370 --> 01:22:35,170
It really is.

2072
01:22:35,190 --> 01:22:37,910
And, and it also reminded me no offense,

2073
01:22:37,970 --> 01:22:39,770
uh, comics or blogger, but I don't need

2074
01:22:39,770 --> 01:22:42,850
to visit Poland because the architecture is still

2075
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:46,130
like, you know, post-Soviet world war II.

2076
01:22:46,530 --> 01:22:48,710
It's like, Oh, the whole thing kind of

2077
01:22:48,710 --> 01:22:51,390
looks depressing, but it was an uplifting movie

2078
01:22:51,390 --> 01:22:52,190
is a fun movie.

2079
01:22:52,190 --> 01:22:54,210
And he had promised, uh, that he would

2080
01:22:54,210 --> 01:22:56,610
boost every single show who, uh, who read

2081
01:22:56,610 --> 01:22:57,310
his booster gram.

2082
01:22:57,390 --> 01:23:00,250
Everyone who, uh, talked about the movie, uh,

2083
01:23:00,250 --> 01:23:02,670
would get extra boosts for every single Oscar

2084
01:23:02,670 --> 01:23:02,990
win.

2085
01:23:03,070 --> 01:23:05,970
So we got, uh, he came, came through

2086
01:23:05,970 --> 01:23:08,070
connoisseur blogger, good to his word.

2087
01:23:08,210 --> 01:23:08,630
Yeah.

2088
01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:10,750
I bet the country, I bet the Polish

2089
01:23:10,750 --> 01:23:11,910
countryside is beautiful.

2090
01:23:12,250 --> 01:23:13,430
Oh, it looked, I mean, it's in the

2091
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:13,630
movie.

2092
01:23:13,770 --> 01:23:14,430
It looks beautiful.

2093
01:23:14,650 --> 01:23:14,870
Yeah.

2094
01:23:14,870 --> 01:23:15,330
Oh yeah.

2095
01:23:15,410 --> 01:23:15,850
Of course.

2096
01:23:16,110 --> 01:23:18,730
Cause we, um, I met, you know, I

2097
01:23:18,730 --> 01:23:21,390
met my wife in, in, uh, Russia on

2098
01:23:21,390 --> 01:23:22,050
a mission trip.

2099
01:23:23,390 --> 01:23:24,710
I didn't know this.

2100
01:23:24,850 --> 01:23:25,930
Where in Russia, what year?

2101
01:23:26,910 --> 01:23:29,670
Uh, this was in 1998 that I met

2102
01:23:29,670 --> 01:23:32,390
her and, uh, we, we were on a

2103
01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:34,330
mission trip, a church mission trip together to,

2104
01:23:34,330 --> 01:23:38,190
uh, a city called Lukovice, which is, I

2105
01:23:38,190 --> 01:23:41,570
think like 45 minutes Northeast of Moscow.

2106
01:23:42,890 --> 01:23:48,330
And so, you know, Moscow was, uh, Moscow

2107
01:23:48,330 --> 01:23:49,550
was like depressing.

2108
01:23:49,930 --> 01:23:50,950
Oh yeah.

2109
01:23:50,950 --> 01:23:52,030
It was really bad.

2110
01:23:52,150 --> 01:23:55,210
Although it was probably just starting to climb

2111
01:23:55,210 --> 01:23:57,490
out and you would see in downtown Moscow,

2112
01:23:57,490 --> 01:24:01,670
you'd see, uh, you know, like Hermes and

2113
01:24:01,670 --> 01:24:03,670
Tiffany and Rolex stores.

2114
01:24:04,070 --> 01:24:06,790
It was, it was like huge, rich, rich

2115
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:07,250
portions.

2116
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:09,230
And then just poverty at the other end.

2117
01:24:10,190 --> 01:24:10,370
Yeah.

2118
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:11,550
And like you would go.

2119
01:24:11,670 --> 01:24:13,750
So I remember, you know, we were walking,

2120
01:24:13,750 --> 01:24:15,070
we're walking through Moscow.

2121
01:24:15,810 --> 01:24:17,410
This was, I guess the wall fell in

2122
01:24:17,410 --> 01:24:21,130
what, 91, 90, less than a decade after

2123
01:24:21,130 --> 01:24:21,410
that.

2124
01:24:22,030 --> 01:24:24,830
Um, and I, we were walking downtown Moscow

2125
01:24:24,830 --> 01:24:28,710
and you would go into these, um, they

2126
01:24:28,710 --> 01:24:29,950
had public bathrooms.

2127
01:24:30,250 --> 01:24:32,250
And so then you would, you know, you

2128
01:24:32,250 --> 01:24:34,290
would go down and they were all underground.

2129
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:36,350
And that's where you met her in the

2130
01:24:36,350 --> 01:24:36,610
public.

2131
01:24:37,190 --> 01:24:42,790
No, no, uh, you'd walk, you'd walk down

2132
01:24:42,790 --> 01:24:45,570
into this public bathroom and because basically there

2133
01:24:45,570 --> 01:24:48,070
was just no public services whatsoever anymore.

2134
01:24:48,330 --> 01:24:50,910
They were all just backed up and just

2135
01:24:50,910 --> 01:24:54,010
like, like feces everywhere.

2136
01:24:54,010 --> 01:24:55,730
It was, Oh, it was sound like it

2137
01:24:55,730 --> 01:24:57,230
was like a murder scene in every one

2138
01:24:57,230 --> 01:24:57,710
of these things.

2139
01:24:57,810 --> 01:24:58,490
It was awful.

2140
01:24:58,730 --> 01:25:01,530
But then you get out into the, um,

2141
01:25:01,790 --> 01:25:04,850
to the countryside and it's just like, it's

2142
01:25:04,850 --> 01:25:07,910
like a completely different world that everything's beautiful.

2143
01:25:07,910 --> 01:25:10,030
And like, it's like, it's like they don't,

2144
01:25:10,110 --> 01:25:12,230
they haven't been even been informed that anything's

2145
01:25:12,230 --> 01:25:12,570
wrong.

2146
01:25:13,230 --> 01:25:15,390
They're just, they're just still like, you know,

2147
01:25:15,390 --> 01:25:18,090
killing chickens and eating, you know, stuff.

2148
01:25:18,550 --> 01:25:19,710
This is funny though.

2149
01:25:19,710 --> 01:25:22,050
The past, the preacher that we went with.

2150
01:25:22,830 --> 01:25:26,250
So, um, the, the missionary that was hosting

2151
01:25:26,250 --> 01:25:31,490
us, he said, um, uh, cause well, to,

2152
01:25:31,630 --> 01:25:33,590
to frame this in a little bit, the

2153
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:36,170
Southern Baptist, the Southern Baptist, there was a

2154
01:25:36,170 --> 01:25:39,830
big contingency of, of, of, uh, Baptists in,

2155
01:25:40,350 --> 01:25:41,150
in Russia.

2156
01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:43,870
That was a big denomination in Russia.

2157
01:25:43,970 --> 01:25:45,430
And of course it was all underground during

2158
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:49,070
communism, but there's tons of Baptists in Russia.

2159
01:25:50,110 --> 01:25:53,150
And so, um, that's how we connected over

2160
01:25:53,150 --> 01:25:53,370
there.

2161
01:25:53,370 --> 01:25:54,610
Cause I grew up Baptist.

2162
01:25:55,150 --> 01:25:57,930
So then we went, um, so the, uh,

2163
01:25:58,150 --> 01:26:03,850
this Baptist preacher in, uh, in Lucovici asked

2164
01:26:03,850 --> 01:26:06,970
our preacher that was with us to do

2165
01:26:06,970 --> 01:26:08,090
a funeral service.

2166
01:26:08,630 --> 01:26:11,730
And so one of, for like somebody's dead,

2167
01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:12,410
like mother.

2168
01:26:13,090 --> 01:26:15,750
And so he, he said, you know, the,

2169
01:26:15,750 --> 01:26:17,530
the pastor that was with us, he, he

2170
01:26:17,530 --> 01:26:21,850
said, I always carry three things, an extra

2171
01:26:21,850 --> 01:26:24,130
sermon just in case I need it.

2172
01:26:24,690 --> 01:26:26,950
Um, and my notes for doing a funeral

2173
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:27,550
and a wedding.

2174
01:26:27,550 --> 01:26:29,110
He's like, cause you never know when somebody's

2175
01:26:29,110 --> 01:26:30,330
going to spring one of those things on

2176
01:26:30,330 --> 01:26:30,510
you.

2177
01:26:30,910 --> 01:26:33,170
And sure enough, he's some, they asked him

2178
01:26:33,170 --> 01:26:33,930
to do his funeral.

2179
01:26:34,230 --> 01:26:35,430
And so he's like, yeah, I'll do it.

2180
01:26:35,430 --> 01:26:35,770
You know, sure.

2181
01:26:35,790 --> 01:26:36,570
I'd be glad to.

2182
01:26:37,330 --> 01:26:39,730
And so they show, they, they drive him

2183
01:26:39,730 --> 01:26:42,350
to this house in the middle of nowhere.

2184
01:26:42,870 --> 01:26:45,010
They drive into this house and he, they

2185
01:26:45,010 --> 01:26:49,110
go inside and there's the, there's the old

2186
01:26:49,110 --> 01:26:51,310
lady on the kitchen table.

2187
01:26:51,470 --> 01:26:53,090
No way.

2188
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:53,910
Yeah.

2189
01:26:53,930 --> 01:26:54,350
Straight up.

2190
01:26:54,410 --> 01:26:55,730
She's just dead on the kitchen table.

2191
01:26:55,930 --> 01:26:58,450
You know, I shut flowers in her hair

2192
01:26:58,450 --> 01:27:00,050
and they're like, all right, go.

2193
01:27:00,670 --> 01:27:02,550
He's like, Holy cow.

2194
01:27:02,650 --> 01:27:03,810
So he's just doing this sermon.

2195
01:27:03,870 --> 01:27:06,210
And then he said, then they, after this,

2196
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:08,890
after the funeral is over, they, a bunch

2197
01:27:08,890 --> 01:27:10,490
of dudes came in and they lifted her

2198
01:27:10,490 --> 01:27:13,590
up and in like, like pushed her out

2199
01:27:13,590 --> 01:27:16,010
the window to some other dudes who lowered

2200
01:27:16,010 --> 01:27:17,330
her in a coffin and buried her in

2201
01:27:17,330 --> 01:27:17,690
the backyard.

2202
01:27:18,110 --> 01:27:18,410
Wow.

2203
01:27:19,290 --> 01:27:20,850
That's how I want to go, man.

2204
01:27:20,990 --> 01:27:22,590
Just lay me out on the kitchen table,

2205
01:27:22,670 --> 01:27:22,930
baby.

2206
01:27:23,550 --> 01:27:23,830
Yeah.

2207
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:25,250
He said it was all done in 45

2208
01:27:25,250 --> 01:27:25,550
minutes.

2209
01:27:26,050 --> 01:27:28,290
Well, there's that nice and quick.

2210
01:27:29,070 --> 01:27:29,510
Beautiful.

2211
01:27:29,890 --> 01:27:30,330
Beautiful.

2212
01:27:30,930 --> 01:27:31,750
All right, brother.

2213
01:27:31,930 --> 01:27:33,910
Well, you have yourself a great restful weekend.

2214
01:27:33,990 --> 01:27:35,190
You doing anything this weekend?

2215
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:40,330
Uh, I am, uh, sanding a room of

2216
01:27:40,330 --> 01:27:41,370
drywall so I can paint it.

2217
01:27:41,550 --> 01:27:42,090
Oh, that's right.

2218
01:27:42,270 --> 01:27:44,330
Dave has also been building his house during

2219
01:27:44,330 --> 01:27:46,450
this past five years since you've been doing

2220
01:27:46,450 --> 01:27:47,510
podcast index.

2221
01:27:47,730 --> 01:27:48,830
I forgot to mention that.

2222
01:27:48,930 --> 01:27:49,130
Yeah.

2223
01:27:49,790 --> 01:27:52,030
This house will continue to be built for

2224
01:27:52,030 --> 01:27:55,430
the next until, until I die forever.

2225
01:27:55,690 --> 01:27:57,510
All right, brother, have yourself a great weekend.

2226
01:27:57,610 --> 01:27:58,230
Thank you so much.

2227
01:27:58,610 --> 01:27:59,930
And thank you very much.

2228
01:28:00,370 --> 01:28:00,850
Boardroom.

2229
01:28:00,910 --> 01:28:02,010
Y'all are good.

2230
01:28:03,210 --> 01:28:04,050
We love you all.

2231
01:28:04,170 --> 01:28:06,770
We'll be back next Friday with another podcasting

2232
01:28:06,770 --> 01:28:08,230
2.0

2233
01:28:09,990 --> 01:28:24,270
you

2234
01:28:24,270 --> 01:28:28,770
have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit

2235
01:28:28,770 --> 01:28:32,070
podcast index.org for more information.

2236
01:28:32,990 --> 01:28:36,470
It really gets me hard.