1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,680 Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for August 16, 2024, episode 189, 2 00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:10,500 all carrot and no stick. Hello everybody. Welcome once again to 3 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:13,380 the official board meeting. Yes, you are in the board room for 4 00:00:13,380 --> 00:00:18,540 podcasting 2.0 what will we be talking about? Well, I'm sure 5 00:00:18,540 --> 00:00:21,200 there's something that's going on with the podcast industrial 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,740 complex. We'll touch on it, but more importantly, we celebrate 7 00:00:24,740 --> 00:00:28,940 the freedom of all podcasters around the globe. I'm Adam curry 8 00:00:28,940 --> 00:00:31,940 here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the 9 00:00:31,940 --> 00:00:35,420 man who issues more licenses than the US game and wildlife 10 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:38,780 agency. Say hello to my friend on the other end, the one and 11 00:00:38,780 --> 00:00:46,540 only Mr. Dave Jones. Freedom, baby, is all about freedom. 12 00:00:50,259 --> 00:00:52,359 Dave Jones: That's what you yell when you're getting your guts 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:53,739 cut out and set on fire. 14 00:00:53,859 --> 00:00:56,979 Adam Curry: Yeah. I have, I have the actual Where is, 15 00:00:56,979 --> 00:01:00,839 Dave Jones: is this the MEL gib Is this the ISO of Mel Gibson, 16 00:01:00,839 --> 00:01:01,259 no, 17 00:01:01,260 --> 00:01:09,900 Adam Curry: it's freedom. That's your vice president. It's 18 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,480 Friday, once again, everybody. That means it's time for the 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,240 official board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 what is 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:21,860 podcasting? 2.0 that is the question. Reset, yes. Reset 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,800 time, reset No. Reset time, reset time for a second. It's 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,560 just reset time. Three and a half, three and a half years 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,060 ago, I called Dave, and I said, Hey, man, hey, man, 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,640 Dave Jones: that's what you said. And man, I was like, what 25 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:35,360 up Ken? What 26 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:40,480 Adam Curry: groovy baby. I said, Hey, man, Apple's messing with 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,540 their API, baby, they're taking stuff out. It's no good. We 28 00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:47,740 gotta fix that. And I was like, What's this job? And I said, 29 00:01:47,740 --> 00:01:51,460 Man, them cats, they be screwing with our mojo. 30 00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:56,440 Dave Jones: And it's exact. I have the transcript. It was 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:57,100 exactly like 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,020 Adam Curry: I said, Dave, this is a guaranteed no money maker, 33 00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:03,120 are you in my brother and 34 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,120 Dave Jones: I said, yes, no, you went Sign me up. 35 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:13,980 Adam Curry: And thus podcast index.org was created. And just 36 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:17,280 just reminder that's that's how this all started. We just wanted 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,320 to have an open API accessible to anybody who wants to support 38 00:02:21,620 --> 00:02:25,700 podcasting in its truest form, in nature, so I'm 39 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:27,860 Dave Jones: gonna, I'm gonna interrupt you for a second and 40 00:02:27,860 --> 00:02:29,360 do something that I never do. 41 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,380 Adam Curry: The audience is riveted. 42 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,740 Dave Jones: I'm going to read a donation at the beginning of the 43 00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:39,860 show. 44 00:02:40,460 --> 00:02:43,240 Adam Curry: Wow. This must be some donation. 45 00:02:45,940 --> 00:02:47,800 Dave Jones: I'm actually going to read two donations at the 46 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:48,220 beginning, 47 00:02:48,220 --> 00:02:51,640 Adam Curry: not one, but two donations interrupting the flow. 48 00:02:53,199 --> 00:02:55,959 Dave Jones: This is a $20 donation through PayPal from 49 00:02:55,959 --> 00:03:00,219 somebody at with a college.harvard.edu, address. 50 00:03:00,399 --> 00:03:06,599 Oh, and he, he or she says that came in this week. It says, I'm 51 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:09,839 using the API to perform a couple of 1000 queries. Truly a 52 00:03:09,839 --> 00:03:12,839 lifesaver. Thank you. $20 beautiful. 53 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,600 Adam Curry: Thank you Harvard. Thank you Harvard. Person 54 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,460 Veritas, and 55 00:03:17,460 --> 00:03:22,640 Dave Jones: $10 from Deborah Hanrahan. She says, Thanks for 56 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:26,240 helping me find some obscure feeds Beautiful. 57 00:03:27,260 --> 00:03:31,520 Adam Curry: Well, there you go. That the idea was always to keep 58 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:38,900 the original idea RSS based podcasting, as was stewarded for 59 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:44,860 a decade by Apple, until they steward it wrong. And and we 60 00:03:44,860 --> 00:03:47,440 made an agreement. We said, Hey, man, we'll just run this value 61 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,780 for value. If people find any value in this thing we're doing 62 00:03:52,780 --> 00:03:57,220 here, they'll support us. And if not, then it'll go away. Do 63 00:03:57,220 --> 00:03:59,860 something else. Yeah, well, we're always doing something 64 00:03:59,860 --> 00:04:03,840 else, but, and then, as a part of that, I said, Wow, man, look 65 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:09,180 at look at this. Yo, yo, cat, yo. Sly slide. Look at this. 66 00:04:09,180 --> 00:04:13,020 Look at this. Lightning. Sly said that could be a nice backup 67 00:04:13,380 --> 00:04:18,060 if, if anybody decided to de platform people from PayPal, 68 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,200 which they were doing, 69 00:04:20,220 --> 00:04:22,520 Dave Jones: and they'll Yeah, they with, which they did within 70 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:23,480 six months, yes, 71 00:04:24,620 --> 00:04:30,980 Adam Curry: this thing and and then you said, yo, yo, bro, you 72 00:04:30,980 --> 00:04:36,560 need a name space for that. And I went, name space as you wish, 73 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,360 my brother. We created a name space. Hit me with an hit me 74 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,840 with your best name space. And then you you put in a name 75 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:48,940 space, and the value block was born. And then we sat back and 76 00:04:48,940 --> 00:04:53,260 we said, it's for freedom. People came along and went, Yes, 77 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,100 what are you guys? Are you far right? What is wrong with you? 78 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:57,640 Freedom? And 79 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,620 Dave Jones: they can't. And everybody came along and said, 80 00:04:59,740 --> 00:05:03,720 What? What sphinx you want? Sphinx? What does that mean? 81 00:05:03,780 --> 00:05:04,200 What is 82 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,220 Adam Curry: Sphinx? Exactly? But what happened then was 83 00:05:08,220 --> 00:05:12,720 miraculous. It was really amazing. People came in and 84 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,820 said, I got some ideas. Guys, I got some ideas. I had some ideas 85 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:21,920 brewing in the kitchen for 10 years. I want some chapters. I 86 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,740 want some transcripts. I want some people tags. I want some 87 00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:30,200 geolocation tags. I got all kinds of ideas, man. And that 88 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,220 became podcasting 2.0 it is a community. It is not Adam, it is 89 00:05:34,220 --> 00:05:38,660 not Dave, it is not driven by anything other than a bunch of 90 00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:43,420 rag tag ragged muffins who showed up to the orchestra with 91 00:05:43,420 --> 00:05:44,260 a banjo 92 00:05:44,260 --> 00:05:45,940 Dave Jones: and spoon organ behind you. 93 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:53,560 Adam Curry: I do who showed up showed up with some spoons, some 94 00:05:53,560 --> 00:06:00,820 washboards, banjos. Let me hear it for the fiddle, the guy, the 95 00:06:00,820 --> 00:06:05,160 boom. And then people started saying, You need to market this. 96 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,320 And we went market what we were here? No, we are here for the 97 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,180 API, baby. We're not here for the marketing. And then it took 98 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:18,540 off from there. And then, you know, all of a sudden, we're 99 00:06:18,540 --> 00:06:21,740 trying to solve some of the world's biggest problems when 100 00:06:21,740 --> 00:06:24,920 the only problem we ever wanted to solve was for that, that 101 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,480 lonely podcaster who as who made a boo boo and son something that 102 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,020 the Silicon Valley people would not like, and they took him 103 00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:36,620 away. By the way, look at what's happening in the UK. Now want to 104 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:39,980 bet the podcasts are going to be de platformed over there in the 105 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:45,040 UK. Oh, yeah. Oh for sure, yeah. Has anyone chat the the UK 106 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,600 apples, apple, iTunes podcast thing? I'm a Bobby yet. So 107 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,240 that's all that's all that we ever wanted to do. We never 108 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,840 wanted to do any more, any less. We didn't want to create any 109 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:59,140 anything additional. It was everybody else who came in and 110 00:06:59,140 --> 00:07:01,980 we said, hey, that's cool. That's cool. Yo. We'll talk 111 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:05,700 about it. We'll do a board meeting. That's it. And some 112 00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:10,200 people went and said, I'll market it. And it turns out 113 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,880 really, yay, yay. Turns out it's really hard, really hard 114 00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:21,320 podcasting two.org is kind of stalled, so and I was reminded 115 00:07:21,380 --> 00:07:27,500 of of a couple things. So we are a rag tag, bunch of rag muffins. 116 00:07:28,220 --> 00:07:28,400 Yeah, 117 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,640 Dave Jones: rebel, a Rebel Alliance, a 118 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,700 Adam Curry: rebel. Well, we are the Minute Men of podcasting. 119 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:38,540 And let me explain. Man, yes, let me explain. So we took a 120 00:07:38,540 --> 00:07:41,200 trip. We had, we had watched this documentary called 121 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,180 monumental it's from 2012 Kirk Cameron. Did it? Production 122 00:07:46,180 --> 00:07:48,460 value low? 123 00:07:49,420 --> 00:07:51,460 Dave Jones: Ouch, sorry. Three out of 10. 124 00:07:52,660 --> 00:07:56,200 Adam Curry: Pretty out of tune. Production value low. But it 125 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,540 told the story of the ragtag group who came over on the 126 00:08:00,540 --> 00:08:06,480 Mayflower to the United States. And I had always heard the story 127 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:09,900 like, you know, a bunch of guys with funny hats, and they had 128 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:14,100 buckles on their shoes. They showed up, and then they they 129 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:19,080 said, Hey, we're here. And then killed all the engines with the 130 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,500 germs, stole the stole the land. Yes. And turns out it's a little 131 00:08:24,500 --> 00:08:27,740 different when you when you learn the true history. So we 132 00:08:27,740 --> 00:08:32,540 went to Plymouth, Massachusetts, which is best known for the 133 00:08:32,540 --> 00:08:37,940 Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock. And we went now, we went to see 134 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:41,020 that we didn't see the Plymouth Well, the Plymouth Rock, this is 135 00:08:41,020 --> 00:08:43,600 supposed to be the rock that the Mayflower. By the way, there's a 136 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,500 Mayflower too, man. You consider there were 102 passengers on 137 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:53,560 that thing. He is like that was no fight for 66 days with no 138 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:56,380 windows, chickens, goats, everything on board. Very tight, 139 00:08:56,380 --> 00:09:01,920 no good six, only beer to drink, whatever they were living in 140 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:09,540 tough conditions. And so they came ashore, and 95 years later, 141 00:09:09,540 --> 00:09:12,840 some, some dude went, you know, I think it was that rock, that 142 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,860 one. And they said, okay, cool. Well, we'll, we'll put 1602 on 143 00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:19,620 it, or 1620 on it, and we'll put it over here, and we'll build 144 00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:21,680 the thing around it. But we don't really know if that was 145 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:25,160 the rock. It wasn't the rock. It's a dumb rock, the rock 146 00:09:25,219 --> 00:09:27,919 Dave Jones: stupid. A lot of that going on in Israel too. 147 00:09:27,979 --> 00:09:30,079 Hey, here's where Jesus, oh, everywhere, 148 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,960 Adam Curry: everywhere. And would you like a T shirt? 149 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,860 Exactly? Yeah, t shirt. So Plymouth itself was beautiful. 150 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:39,620 The weather was 75 degrees. Could not have been prettier. 151 00:09:39,620 --> 00:09:42,640 You know, you said, yeah, hey, let's have a Sam Adams. Why not 152 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,080 make sense while we're here. But the real reason for our trip was 153 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,740 something called the monument to the forefathers, which I've 154 00:09:50,740 --> 00:09:54,880 never been told about even Dvorak, the book of knowledge. 155 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,420 Dvorak had never heard of it. You say forefathers? 156 00:09:58,719 --> 00:10:01,619 Dave Jones: Are you saying? Fo. Or, f o r, e, f 157 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:05,280 Adam Curry: o r, e, the forefathers, gotcha. And this 158 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,400 is, in a way, you know, the 12 rocks. With the children of 159 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,040 Israel, they had the 12 rocks remind them of the journey. They 160 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,660 made 12 stones. 161 00:10:13,379 --> 00:10:15,119 Dave Jones: I don't remember that. I just know that they put 162 00:10:15,119 --> 00:10:19,139 up altars everywhere, about everything, right? I mean, if, 163 00:10:19,379 --> 00:10:24,619 if you know, if, if Joseph sneezed, they built an altar, 164 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:25,939 you know, to commemorate it 165 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:30,980 Adam Curry: was it 12 rods? No, 12 rod. Rods is the band. 166 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,540 Thanks. Booberry. Booberry, stop distracting me. The board, the 167 00:10:35,540 --> 00:10:40,600 board room will settle down. Um, think Georgia guidestone. You've 168 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,880 all heard the Georgia guidestone, which, which says 169 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,260 this horrible New World Order thing that says, you know, we 170 00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:50,980 don't need more than 500 million people and get rid of everybody 171 00:10:50,980 --> 00:10:54,580 and kill everybody. Okay, so this, this is really a a 172 00:10:54,580 --> 00:10:59,200 monument that was, it's, I think it's 60 or 70 feet tall. It is 173 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,060 the largest single granite structure in America. Never 174 00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:12,540 heard of it, and it is, in effect, a guide to America, and 175 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,840 never heard of it either. Oh, man, you have to look it up. So 176 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,200 it has multiple it's a statue of this woman standing with her 177 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,580 finger pointed toward the sky, and her name, it's all engraved. 178 00:11:22,580 --> 00:11:26,420 Her name is Faith. And on the side, there's four sides to it. 179 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,860 One is law, one is morality, one is education, and then the final 180 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:33,200 one is liberty. And the Liberty man is looking out over the 181 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,900 harbor, and it gives an explanation of what we knew, 182 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:37,820 what America was comprised of, 183 00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:42,460 Dave Jones: National Monument to the forefathers. Yes, and that's 184 00:11:42,460 --> 00:11:43,120 big, and 185 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,580 Adam Curry: it's right in, it's right in a little residential 186 00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:49,240 area. There's no no t shirt stand. You can't buy a beer and 187 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,000 ice cream. There's hardly, there's no ropes. There's hardly 188 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,180 anybody there. It's, it's very impressive. They started 189 00:11:55,180 --> 00:12:00,180 building it, I think in 1850 completed in 1889 what might 190 00:12:00,180 --> 00:12:03,060 have been a warrant in between. Then it might have stopped for a 191 00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:05,640 second. So really impressive. Then we decided we're going to 192 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,000 drive up to Lexington green. Are you familiar with Lexington 193 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:09,360 green? 194 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,240 Dave Jones: I've heard the name Lexington 195 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:18,780 Adam Curry: green in 1775 is where Reverend Clark had, he had 196 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:23,000 John Hancock and one of the other signers of the Declaration 197 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,760 will come to me in a moment. And they were kind of hiding out 198 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,920 there, and because they were being hunted down by the 199 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,540 British, and they, you know, they were like, getting ready 200 00:12:32,540 --> 00:12:35,000 because, you know, Hey, man, we want to make this a country, and 201 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,720 we want to declare our independence from Britain. And 202 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,860 this is where Paul Revere road, the British are coming. The 203 00:12:41,860 --> 00:12:46,180 British are coming. Yeah, the red coats, that's right. And so 204 00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:49,900 this and so Reverend Clark had taught the the congregation 205 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:53,560 there how to load their muskets, and they went on the Lexington 206 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,160 green, and the British, there was 30 guys, and 800 British 207 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:03,540 solder soldiers show up. Okay? And they stood their ground, and 208 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,160 they the British went away. They said, You know what, we can't 209 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,860 we're not going to fight these guys. And I think eight of them 210 00:13:10,860 --> 00:13:16,140 died. And it's a reminder, and it even has this huge mass with 211 00:13:16,140 --> 00:13:19,260 a big flag on top says, birthplace of American liberty. 212 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:25,940 And it reminded me that even with 30 people with muskets and 213 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:29,720 you know, and half a bullet between them, can stand up 214 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:35,300 against the big powers that be, that, my friends, is podcasting 215 00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:40,360 2.0 we are that ragtag group, and we can stand up against 216 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:46,240 them, and they will eventually just go away or not, doesn't 217 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:52,840 matter. They will not get rid of us, is my point. They cannot get 218 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,080 rid of us. They will not get rid of us. Now, of course, if we try 219 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,260 to play their games, it's going to be a very disappointing 220 00:13:59,260 --> 00:14:05,460 journey, which is where I think sometimes we get stuck in. And I 221 00:14:05,460 --> 00:14:09,540 just wanted to reiterate that we are here for for liberty, the 222 00:14:09,540 --> 00:14:13,080 liberty of podcasting, the liberty for anyone to say what 223 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,100 they want to say, and for it to be available wherever you get 224 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:21,920 your podcasts. That's it. That's all that we ever set out to do, 225 00:14:22,580 --> 00:14:26,120 and I think we're succeeding greatly, and I'm very proud of 226 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,500 everybody for contributing as it comes to podcasting point 2.0, 227 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,800 and what that is and what that means, it's up to you, and it's 228 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:43,180 up to each individual podcaster to tell their audience, how to 229 00:14:43,180 --> 00:14:48,880 support them, what podcast apps to use, how to listen. That's 230 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:54,940 what it's about. There's nothing we can do to beat Apple or 231 00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:58,360 Spotify at the games they're playing, because they're just 232 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,480 playing their games. You. We are here to support the liberty of 233 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,140 the podcasters who just want a podcast. 234 00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:10,740 Dave Jones: If you want everybody gets the podcasting 235 00:15:10,740 --> 00:15:14,340 2.0 that they deserve Absolutely. 236 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,440 Adam Curry: And so when, when I hear carrots and sticks and all 237 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,420 kinds of things, I'm like, can we just reset for a second what 238 00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:27,920 we are and what is going on here? Ah, what are you drinking? 239 00:15:28,699 --> 00:15:29,659 Dave Jones: Sam Adams, 240 00:15:30,799 --> 00:15:33,439 Adam Curry: nice, very nice. You'll be so hammered by the end 241 00:15:33,439 --> 00:15:41,079 of the board meeting. So we should probably just talk about 242 00:15:41,079 --> 00:15:47,979 this. This, this comment that was made. Do you send clips? 243 00:15:47,979 --> 00:15:53,319 These clips have anything to do with it? Yeah, yeah. Why don't 244 00:15:53,319 --> 00:15:57,159 you bring us up to speed on what is happening? What, what the big 245 00:15:57,159 --> 00:15:58,479 conversation was 246 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,260 Dave Jones: evident. So Rob and Elsie over on the feed, 247 00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:08,880 Adam Curry: paid the lips and podcast lips 248 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,380 Dave Jones: and podcast did a long segment about podcasting 249 00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:21,620 2.0 on their show this week. And you know that they've talked 250 00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:27,080 about it briefly, maybe once or twice before, and, you know, 251 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,760 typically at sort of a negative take, which is fine, you know, 252 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,140 everybody has their own opinion about things, but then they did 253 00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:40,660 a long segment about it, about it this time. And I guess, the 254 00:16:40,660 --> 00:16:44,200 way, yeah, I only pulled one clip because I think it just, 255 00:16:45,340 --> 00:16:49,780 honestly, it just was kind of the same thing over and over. So 256 00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:53,380 just pulled sort of one exempt a, like, an example clip that 257 00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:56,980 kind of sums up the whole thing. But before we get into that, 258 00:16:56,980 --> 00:17:01,020 like, I mean, I'll just, I'm probably, here's what I'll do. 259 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:07,140 I'll build, I'm going to build a ROB sandwich. Okay, okay. So the 260 00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:11,160 the the way, the way you do in his show business, to my 261 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,780 understanding, is, you, you, you do what you do, what's called 262 00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:20,420 Building a sandwich. You, when you critique somebody, you give, 263 00:17:20,780 --> 00:17:23,480 you start out giving them the good. You say something good 264 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,440 about them. Then you say the thing that you that's negative, 265 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,500 and then you finish it up with something good, like, Hey, Joe, 266 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:33,200 great job on that line. I would love to we call 267 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,820 Adam Curry: that a shoe sandwich. I don't know what 268 00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:40,540 Dave Jones: great job you really killed it in that scene. If all 269 00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:43,840 you know next time, let's on this next take. Let's try to 270 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,540 just get a little bit more feeling in it. And by the way, 271 00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:48,160 Hey, you look great. All right, listen, 272 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,060 Adam Curry: okay, so you are so tactical. 273 00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:54,100 Dave Jones: Yes, I'm gonna build. I'm gonna build a 274 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:59,260 sandwich. I have only interacted with Rob Walsh once in my whole 275 00:17:59,260 --> 00:18:02,160 life, and it was over email, and he asked us to take down a bunch 276 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,420 of fraudulent feeds of Dan Carlin that got into the index, 277 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,480 right? And, I mean, I responded and took them down within five 278 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,800 minutes. That is my only time I've ever even spoken with the 279 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:21,800 with with him. So I'll say, you know, so I'll start, I'll lay 280 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,080 down the first slice of bread and say he's, he's been at 281 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:30,500 Lipson forever and and I mean, this is I'm being truthful here. 282 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:33,140 I'm being honest with my feelings. Nobody stays in a 283 00:18:33,140 --> 00:18:38,420 position for that long without having had shown results, right? 284 00:18:38,420 --> 00:18:39,800 So he's clearly, wasn't 285 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:41,860 Adam Curry: he one of the original founders? 286 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:47,620 Dave Jones: I thought that, but I didn't, I don't know. So I 287 00:18:47,620 --> 00:18:49,360 thought he was, I mean, I thought he was one of the I 288 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:54,100 thought he was too, but I don't have confirmation that So, but, 289 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:58,240 I mean, he's been there for a long, long time. And you, like I 290 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,500 said, you don't stay there that long unless you know what you're 291 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,220 doing and are able to show results. The other thing that I 292 00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:08,160 thought he was right about, so I listened to the whole thing, 293 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,460 and, you know, it's it, it you you can't, if you just pull out 294 00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:14,460 clips of stuff, sometimes it's not, you know, it doesn't give 295 00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:16,800 you a sense of the whole thing. So I listened to the whole 296 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,040 episode, and he had something to say about about making money and 297 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,100 advertising and censorship and this kind of thing. And one 298 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:27,620 point he made before they started really talking about 2.0 299 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:33,200 much is he said, um, there's an advertiser out there. I'm kind 300 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,960 of paraphrasing. There's an advertiser out there for 301 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,660 everyone you know. So you know, if you have, and he used the 302 00:19:40,660 --> 00:19:44,560 example of Joe Rogan. I mean, Joe, you know, hey, you could 303 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,740 use the example of call her daddy as well. I mean, these 304 00:19:49,060 --> 00:19:52,060 call her daddy is a nasty show. I mean, they talk about all 305 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:55,000 kinds of nasty stuff all the time, nasty. Yes, it's not 306 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,020 exactly brand safe. No, neither is a lot of stuff Rogan does is 307 00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:03,720 not brand safe. I mean. But there's tons of quote, not brand 308 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,200 safe shows that are doing just fine on advertising. And 309 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,020 Adam Curry: can we, can we recognize, for a moment, the OG 310 00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:15,060 advertisers, GoDaddy, Squarespace and Fleshlight? 311 00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:18,300 Dave Jones: Yes? Like, yeah, 312 00:20:18,420 --> 00:20:20,600 Adam Curry: I haven't forgotten Fleshlight. Yeah. 313 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,860 Dave Jones: Forgot about that one. I mean, are you gonna make? 314 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:30,560 Would you make as much as if you're brand safe? I mean, no, 315 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,340 maybe not, but somebody's gonna bite the apple. I mean, no 316 00:20:34,340 --> 00:20:38,360 matter how far down the rabbit hole you go. I mean, Alex Jones 317 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,200 was not. He was doing pretty well. He 318 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,600 Adam Curry: was his own advertiser. He was selling his 319 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,940 own boner pills. It was great. 320 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,880 Dave Jones: And seeds and gold, and I mean that somebody quite 321 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,420 well did quite well. Yeah, you might call it a podcast, 322 00:20:52,420 --> 00:20:55,480 pantage, you know, just you're out there for, you know, 323 00:20:55,540 --> 00:21:01,320 foraging. So that's even, that's, that's kind of, that's 324 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:06,960 kind of one thing and another. The meat of the sandwich here, 325 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:16,620 though, is something about us has seemed to annoy rob from the 326 00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:20,040 first day that we've existed. I'm not sure exactly what it is 327 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:25,640 or why, but it's, it seems to have been there a long time, um, 328 00:21:27,860 --> 00:21:35,420 and and listening to their discussions of 2.0 like, I guess 329 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:38,960 the only thing that I can the way I would sum it up, is saying 330 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:44,320 this, it's like listening to somebody describe your political 331 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,320 candidate of choice. And they get in, they just and they get 332 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:54,160 every single thing wrong, like it was, every tag that they 333 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,500 discussed, every podcast namespace, tag that they 334 00:21:56,500 --> 00:22:00,720 discussed, was just completely wrong the way they described it, 335 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,300 you know? And that's, that's, there's only one way that 336 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:05,280 happens is you have done no research. Or, 337 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,080 Adam Curry: if you're listening to MSNBC, 338 00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:12,000 Dave Jones: it's like you've done, you've just done no 339 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,380 research. This the spec as written, the namespace spec is 340 00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:21,440 intentionally written in plain English. It's not a bunch of 341 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,860 tech jargon, right? It's not a hard thing to understand those 342 00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:28,880 documents and the goals and methods behind each one. So, I 343 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,880 mean, the only way you could be that dead wrong and everything 344 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,300 is if you just literally done no no research at all. 345 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:38,780 Adam Curry: Right? And I agree. I also listen to it. I know 346 00:22:38,780 --> 00:22:41,740 exactly what you're saying, yeah. And so you can 347 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,520 Dave Jones: say Sam Adams Oktoberfest 348 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:48,880 Adam Curry: beer. 349 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,580 Dave Jones: So that that's, I think, just sort of like a way 350 00:22:54,580 --> 00:22:59,200 to bring, bring us into this, is that, I think what they were 351 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,180 doing is they've done no research at all on 2.0 and the 352 00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:05,100 actual way that any of it works. Can I 353 00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:07,140 Adam Curry: interrupt you for a second? I recall, did we not 354 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,620 have a zoom call with someone over at Libsyn at some point? 355 00:23:10,620 --> 00:23:11,160 You and I 356 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:15,300 Dave Jones: didn't we. We talked to Gibbons, yeah, yeah. And we 357 00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:17,580 Adam Curry: and we said, hey, how can we help? How can we 358 00:23:17,580 --> 00:23:20,660 pitch in? What do you need? You know, is anything? Yeah. And 359 00:23:20,660 --> 00:23:24,140 that's when he said, Guys, look, you know, we'll, we'll, you 360 00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:25,880 know, we're a little tight on budget. I think they were 361 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,380 cutting some things and but 2025 or No, 2024 I think you said, 362 00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:33,020 you know we're gonna, we're gonna hit it hard. Hit it hard. 363 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:33,980 Q1, 2024 364 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,300 Dave Jones: we had a, yeah, we had that Zoom call with John 365 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:40,040 Gibbons and their lead developer. 366 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,900 Adam Curry: That was we reached out. We said, hey, here we are. 367 00:23:44,620 --> 00:23:46,420 We are here. We are here. Uh huh, 368 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:50,200 Dave Jones: December of 20. It may have been December of 2022, 369 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,180 22 and they said, 23 we're gonna do they said, We're gonna do pod 370 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:58,840 ping. We're gonna do this. They listed off a few things that we 371 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:03,780 do, and they they did none of it, you know, which is fine, 372 00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:06,000 they've, they've, it's a trouble. It's a troubled 373 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,840 company, okay? And I don't mean that, I don't, I'm not trying to 374 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,960 be ugly. I'm just saying that it, it's obviously been a 375 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,600 troubled company at the time. You know, they had those weird 376 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,420 Chinese investors that were in jail. Oh no, there's a cap 377 00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:18,840 table. 378 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,400 Adam Curry: Must be a nightmare. I mean, the whole financially 379 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,360 ownership structure, it must be very, very complicated, 380 00:24:27,020 --> 00:24:29,780 Dave Jones: yeah. So, I mean, I was like, I was always like, 381 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,960 hey, you know, you got bigger problems, you know, this, this 382 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:39,620 is just not that big of a thing. So, um, but, you know, every the 383 00:24:39,620 --> 00:24:43,060 description they gave of every tag was just wrong. Here in the 384 00:24:43,060 --> 00:24:45,940 clip I pulled is a good example of this. And then talking about 385 00:24:47,260 --> 00:24:51,280 the I think, let's see me pull up my clips. I thought the dad 386 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,640 bring the live item tag is what you live item tag? Yeah, go 387 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:55,780 ahead and play that. What 388 00:24:55,780 --> 00:24:59,740 Unknown: are other advantages to podcasting 2.0 standards? People 389 00:24:59,740 --> 00:25:01,140 can. Be notified that you are 390 00:25:01,260 --> 00:25:03,360 Adam Curry: on a second. This is, let me just hear that again. 391 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:04,980 I'll ring the bell and I'll explain later, 392 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,860 Unknown: what are other advantages to podcasting, 2.0 393 00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:11,400 standards. People can be notified that you are streaming 394 00:25:11,460 --> 00:25:16,380 your show live. This is with a live item tag, and with a modern 395 00:25:16,380 --> 00:25:20,840 podcasting app that recognizes the live item tag, they will be 396 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,940 notified that a show they are subscribed to has gone live. Mix 397 00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:30,080 that with the booster grams, and you've got almost instant 398 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,980 feedback loop that happens during the show, and this allows 399 00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:38,180 your audience to partake in what you are creating. End Quote, 400 00:25:38,780 --> 00:25:42,940 it's a nice option, but there are so many other ways to notify 401 00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:45,940 your audience that you're going live. Most are presenting out 402 00:25:45,940 --> 00:25:49,420 notifications from the live apps you're going to be live in. They 403 00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:50,140 all support that. 404 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,220 Adam Curry: Oh, wow, yeah. So she read it perfectly, and Rob 405 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,420 didn't understand it. 406 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,660 Dave Jones: Yeah, they don't like that's that's that. And it 407 00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:02,760 was that the whole time. It was describing a tag this now they 408 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,280 were reading a letter that somebody had written in about a 409 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,880 lot of different podcasting 2.0 tags. So they were sort of like 410 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,120 going through them in every in every instance it was a 411 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:15,780 description of a tag, and then their commentary showed a 412 00:26:15,780 --> 00:26:19,680 complete misunderstanding of how that tag works. And in this, 413 00:26:19,740 --> 00:26:24,620 this is a good example, the live item tag, the because, the 414 00:26:24,620 --> 00:26:27,680 because the writer of the letter said you can be notified in the 415 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,700 app when the show goes live, they don't have any they don't 416 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,940 have any understanding that the reason you're getting notified 417 00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:39,020 is because you're listening in the podcast app. They, they 418 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,980 they're still thinking that you get notified through some sort 419 00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:45,820 of push notification, and then you switch over to YouTube, and 420 00:26:45,820 --> 00:26:51,160 so they don't understand that the live stream is in the feed, 421 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,900 right and the podcast app itself is you can listen right there. 422 00:26:56,260 --> 00:27:00,240 So that's why you're getting notified of a live stream, just 423 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,720 like you get notified by your podcast app of a new episode, 424 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,020 because the because you're listening there in the app, 425 00:27:07,020 --> 00:27:09,420 you're not having to switch to some other app. So they went 426 00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:12,960 into this complicated talk about, you know, when we use 427 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,540 email to notify people when we're going to go live and we 428 00:27:15,540 --> 00:27:18,120 put in a link to our YouTube channel and all this kind of 429 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,900 it's like, this is, this is a complete misunderstanding. And 430 00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:24,620 that was just that. That was my biggest beef with this whole 431 00:27:24,620 --> 00:27:31,460 thing, is that I don't, I don't mind anybody having a difference 432 00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:37,040 of opinion about the actual way that any of this works. You 433 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,180 could look at this. You could look at any of the standards and 434 00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:45,700 say any of the tags and say, Okay, look what just like like 435 00:27:45,940 --> 00:27:49,240 James is a good example. He has a couple of tags that he just 436 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:55,240 doesn't like, you know, but, but he understands what the tags do 437 00:27:55,540 --> 00:28:00,100 in his in his criticisms are from an actual, accurate 438 00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:05,640 understanding of what they do, not from just hearsay. And 439 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,540 that's where you have a problem, is when you think is when you're 440 00:28:09,540 --> 00:28:12,300 just listening and you don't fully understand, and then you 441 00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:17,460 just throw out a hot take it, you end up completely getting it 442 00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:18,300 all wrong. 443 00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:21,920 Adam Curry: All right, can I? Can I give my view on what's 444 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,600 happening here? Yeah, sure. And I have, I have, I will give Rob 445 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,700 a lot of grace. He's in a company that has been troubled 446 00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:36,560 for a long time. It's one of the original OG companies. In fact, 447 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,480 I recall thinking, how do these guys do it? How can they the 448 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,500 bandwidth was so expensive at the time. Like, how can they, 449 00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:48,100 how do they make it so cheap and so affordable it was, it was 450 00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:54,640 quite amazing. So this company has gone through. I mean, I've 451 00:28:55,540 --> 00:28:59,140 started companies, I've been owner, I've taken a company 452 00:28:59,140 --> 00:29:03,180 public. I've done acquisitions, all of it, all of it, all of it 453 00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:07,980 is pain, particularly if you're public, whether you're a pink 454 00:29:07,980 --> 00:29:12,720 slip, OTC, NASDAQ, whatever it is, you have to report numbers. 455 00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:16,800 I mean, the company is the focus of the people in the company. 456 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,780 It's so I mean, when your stock is rising, everyone's like, Yay, 457 00:29:20,780 --> 00:29:23,480 great. And when it's not, it's like, I'm underwater. Here. 458 00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:27,020 Everyone gets depressed. You see it throughout the hallways. You 459 00:29:27,020 --> 00:29:30,920 integrate a new company. People have to get fired. Things have 460 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,000 to be put together. You know, it's a it's all pain. It's very, 461 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,080 very painful. And, and this is in general, just, you know, 462 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,340 podcasting. Once you bring in the advertising into your walls. 463 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,100 You just, you might as well just say, Come on in, enemy. Come on 464 00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:47,560 in. Come on, come on, come on, come on. Run around here, devil. 465 00:29:47,860 --> 00:29:51,640 Run around here and just cause havoc everywhere. So there's 466 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,440 that. And then, of course, there's really no. I mean, who 467 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,320 is in charge, who makes the call, who says, Yes, we're gonna 468 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,060 develop this. Us see lips in five. I mean, I still don't 469 00:30:03,060 --> 00:30:06,720 think it's done. So there's severe technical debt, or 470 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,440 there's some other stuff going on internally. Maybe it's just 471 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,440 too many captains, not enough captains, no captain, you don't 472 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,620 know they're not communicating to the outside world. And Rob 473 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:21,440 Walsh is sitting there doing podcaster relations, having had 474 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:26,720 a podcasting organization, probably the hardest job you can 475 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,100 imagine is the person who has to talk to the podcasters every 476 00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:31,820 single day. 477 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,100 Dave Jones: It's like help desk in it. 478 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,280 Adam Curry: It worse, worse because it's all emotional. 479 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:38,720 Dave Jones: Yeah, you know, I 480 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,260 Adam Curry: mean, yeah, I'm sorry. I don't I can't say it's 481 00:30:41,260 --> 00:30:44,260 worse, but I think it is because it, you know, a technical thing 482 00:30:44,260 --> 00:30:48,280 you can solve when it comes to an emotional thing. And why am I 483 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,820 not making any money on ads? Why am I not prioritized? Why am I 484 00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:55,720 this? Why am I that? And it's all day long, you know, do you 485 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,100 have people who just need help, like, so do I click the right 486 00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:03,060 mouse button. I mean, there's that. It's frustrating as well. 487 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,360 So when you're dealing with that all day long, and then people 488 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,860 come along and say, I want podcasting 2.0 well, we don't 489 00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:16,500 have that. So right? You are going to as a human being when 490 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:19,320 you're frustrated and things are going on inside the 491 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,720 organization. I'm sure Rob would love nothing more than to to be 492 00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:27,740 a part of the group and be be hanging with Mr. Cooper, doing 493 00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:32,000 everything cool and and contributing. But he is swamped. 494 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,280 He's swamped in in this world that he's living in which, you 495 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,540 know, people are jumping out of this or getting pushed out of 496 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:46,240 there's so much going on that we don't know. And it's very human, 497 00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:50,140 I think, to then say, well, you know that stuff is really not it 498 00:31:50,140 --> 00:31:52,720 doesn't work on Apple. Don't worry about it, because you got 499 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,600 these customers. They're your clients. They're saying, How 500 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,840 come we're not getting anything? So then we get to the carrot and 501 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,000 the stick thing. And I thought long and hard, I sent him an 502 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,660 email having her back. And in fact, we might need, I think we 503 00:32:06,660 --> 00:32:09,000 should invite him on the show. I mean, if he feels like it, I'd 504 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,400 love to talk to him about this on the show. The boardroom is 505 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,160 the perfect place to talk about it. But there was this 506 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,120 continuous carrot and the stick. Well, these guys, if they had 507 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,220 only, if they would only use carrots instead of sticks. And 508 00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:25,700 to me when I hear them talking about standards, it, for me, it 509 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:30,140 all goes back to the podcast, standards group, yes, and I 510 00:32:30,140 --> 00:32:33,440 don't believe they were involved. I don't think Libsyn 511 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,980 either accepted the invitation. Maybe they weren't at the secret 512 00:32:36,980 --> 00:32:40,600 dinner. Because, you know, I don't think it was malicious. 513 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,260 It's just like, well, you know, Rob, maybe someone forgot to ask 514 00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:48,640 him whatever it was. I believe he felt excluded. Then you come 515 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,200 up with certifications and badges, and you got to be a part 516 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,920 of it, and the minute that started to wane and become weak, 517 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,720 which it is. And I appreciate that Sam Sethi stepped up, but I 518 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,100 see no advancement. Then, you know, it's something that you go 519 00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:08,580 and beat. And I think that's what he was talking about. Oh, 520 00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:11,100 they all wanted to make this happen. They all were going to 521 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,860 get together, and we weren't a part of it. We weren't invited, 522 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:17,760 or whatever happened there. And there was the outreach was not 523 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,440 done. And then, and also, because Libsyn doesn't seem to 524 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,100 be very, be very communicative. They couldn't really do anything 525 00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:28,340 for their internal struggles. And that's where I think that's 526 00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:31,700 coming from, but I don't think it's coming from anything else. 527 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:35,960 And then, you know, it's easy to just, you know, be mad. It's 528 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,500 mad. I get it. I really do. I think that's that is what's 529 00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:46,720 happening. And let's be honest about it, we have, as a group, 530 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,160 not done a good job with podcast standards group. We have not 531 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,540 done a good job with marketing, whatever this is. I mean, I'd 532 00:33:55,540 --> 00:33:59,740 love that that Daniel J Lewis stepped up and said, Okay, I've 533 00:33:59,740 --> 00:34:03,240 told you I can do this podcasting two.org doesn't 534 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,660 explain anything for a listener. It's like, here's some apps. It 535 00:34:06,660 --> 00:34:09,300 doesn't tell you what it all is. It's, you know, it's, I'm sorry, 536 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:11,520 I don't think it's a very good marketing website, which I 537 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,000 thought it was going to be, because this is hard stuff. It's 538 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,720 hard. None of this is easy. There's no organization, there 539 00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:22,280 is no company, there's no cash flows throughout all of this, 540 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,420 and along comes the incentives. So what really are the 541 00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:29,540 incentives for everybody? We, as I said in the beginning, you and 542 00:34:29,540 --> 00:34:33,860 I stepped in. Our incentive was freedom. That was the only 543 00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:39,080 incentive, no money, no prospect of money, just let's do it. 544 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,520 Because screw those guys. We know how to do this, and we're 545 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,120 going to do it. 546 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,059 Dave Jones: And freedom is a strong incentive for 547 00:34:46,060 --> 00:34:49,480 Adam Curry: us. Yes, but most people, if you're developing an 548 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:54,700 app, your incentive is not going to be helping out advertisers, 549 00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:58,360 because you're not in the flow. Why did value for value payments 550 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,660 work with lightning? I. A It was simple to do once we got APIs 551 00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:07,980 working. And two, there was an incentive. That incentive was I 552 00:35:07,980 --> 00:35:11,340 get a piece of the action. That's why it got implemented. 553 00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:15,240 And now we're in in a in a holding pattern, although, thank 554 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,440 you. Oscar, Mary says he's he's figured out his API issues, and 555 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,380 he's working on, on, on the secondary and tertiary payment 556 00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:30,080 mechanisms, yeah, and that will come back, or, you know, 557 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:36,020 whatever. I sure hope so. But we still are just a bunch of people 558 00:35:36,020 --> 00:35:40,240 trying to make something happen, and without the and we learned 559 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,580 this early on. Without the podcast hosting company 560 00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:46,060 supporting it, we're just farting in the wind. No, 561 00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:48,160 Dave Jones: yeah, it's irrelevant. It's completely 562 00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:53,140 Adam Curry: irrelevant. So kudos to blueberry, kudos to 563 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:59,620 Buzzsprout, although they could do more. Kudos to pod home, to 564 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,100 RSS, blue to RSS doc all. I mean, everyone has done versions 565 00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:07,980 that they can red circle, red circle, and that they have 566 00:36:07,980 --> 00:36:12,720 cycles for. And we are so far ahead in phase seven of the 567 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,660 namespace, where there's phase one things that I think still 568 00:36:15,660 --> 00:36:19,860 have not been implemented. So if anything needs to happen, and 569 00:36:19,860 --> 00:36:25,100 this is where Libsyn got left out, not purposely, not for and 570 00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:29,720 by any fault of their own, per se, because they just don't have 571 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:35,960 this the cycles to do it. I guess improving podcasting is a 572 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,780 natural evolution, and it takes time for these things to to 573 00:36:40,780 --> 00:36:45,280 materialize transcripts, I think has been pretty successful. I 574 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,960 think we took three years and we got something that Apple also 575 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,160 supports, you know, then all of a sudden we have these, these 576 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,360 big, you know, the 400 pound gorilla Spotify, who was trying 577 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:04,800 to eat up everybody's hosting uh, business, you know. Is it 578 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,340 possible that if we all said, let's make sure everybody 579 00:37:08,340 --> 00:37:11,520 accepts Spotify does all this stuff, maybe we can all, you 580 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,760 know, and, and if we could get Apple, I mean, this would be the 581 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,980 dream, right? If Apple said, Hey, we're going to be with you 582 00:37:16,980 --> 00:37:20,300 guys, because we would love to have more features and we can go 583 00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:23,240 kill Spotify, that would be something they need to do, but 584 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,640 they're not doing it because they got other things that they 585 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,460 got, Apple intelligence. You know, the Apple intelligence 586 00:37:28,460 --> 00:37:33,200 says, no, they got to do something else. So, you know, 587 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,820 I'm perfectly happy with all of us just developing our apps, the 588 00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:41,260 apps and services that want to add this. It all comes back to 589 00:37:41,260 --> 00:37:47,020 the podcaster. 35% of people who listen to my podcast use modern 590 00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:51,100 podcast apps, and they love the features that it uses. That's 591 00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:55,900 the win. To me, that's the win. And if we think that it all has 592 00:37:55,900 --> 00:38:00,840 to be some industry or everybody has to be on the same page. 593 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,200 Forget it. That's not how it works in distributed land. It's 594 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:09,060 just not but it doesn't mean that we can't continue to build 595 00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:15,060 and continue to to move forward, and that I would love for Rob to 596 00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:19,440 be able to, if possible, to move his company or whatever he can 597 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,580 within his company, to come more into where we're at. That would 598 00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:28,280 be fantastic. But when you create clubs and badges and and 599 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,380 names and make it which I'm I'm also guilty of, you know, 600 00:38:33,380 --> 00:38:37,100 podcasting 2.0 it's almost exclusionary by definition, 601 00:38:37,820 --> 00:38:41,200 which, but isn't it was never the intent. But now I see, oh, 602 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,660 well, then these people feel like they're not a part of the 603 00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:46,420 club, but everyone's welcome. We'd love for everybody to come 604 00:38:46,420 --> 00:38:46,720 in 605 00:38:49,659 --> 00:38:54,399 Dave Jones: that I think the, I think I think you're, I think 606 00:38:54,399 --> 00:38:57,699 your instincts are probably pretty accurate on this that I 607 00:38:57,699 --> 00:39:03,779 was thinking about the carrot and the stick. And I didn't pull 608 00:39:03,779 --> 00:39:06,599 that, but he just kept using this phrase over and over, more 609 00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:14,039 carrot, less stick, about 2.0 adoption. And, you know, I think 610 00:39:14,039 --> 00:39:19,379 they, they obviously love Marco from overcast over there. They 611 00:39:19,379 --> 00:39:22,759 talked a lot about him at the beginning of their show, sort of 612 00:39:22,759 --> 00:39:25,939 gushing about overcast and Marco and how great he is, and that 613 00:39:25,939 --> 00:39:30,259 kind of thing. And Marco is also annoyed by 2.0 and so I think 614 00:39:30,259 --> 00:39:33,859 they probably picked up some of that as well from him. And I 615 00:39:33,859 --> 00:39:37,339 think you're right, and that the origin of, I think the origin of 616 00:39:37,339 --> 00:39:42,099 a lot of that stuff is from the podcast Standards Project. I 617 00:39:42,099 --> 00:39:47,079 don't know this for a fact, because I don't have any first 618 00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:50,079 hand knowledge, because let's go back to the beginning of the 619 00:39:50,259 --> 00:39:54,819 podcast Standards Project is a hosting company initiative. We 620 00:39:54,819 --> 00:40:00,119 purposely stayed out of that because it we didn't. We. It, 621 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:04,319 the freedom of not having to be, you know, in a some sort of 622 00:40:04,379 --> 00:40:09,779 bureaucratic we just didn't want any of that. And so we wanted to 623 00:40:09,779 --> 00:40:13,979 be able to build stuff, be crazy, test stuff, and then if 624 00:40:13,979 --> 00:40:17,879 the podcast Standards Project, people want to do something and 625 00:40:17,879 --> 00:40:21,559 create some sort of standard that they that's their business. 626 00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:25,519 So we sort of stayed out of that, but immediately there was 627 00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:28,459 this confusion between the podcast Standards Project and 628 00:40:28,459 --> 00:40:34,459 podcasting 2.0 project. And they they were always confused as the 629 00:40:34,459 --> 00:40:39,019 same thing from the beginning. And I don't know this for a 630 00:40:39,019 --> 00:40:42,579 fact, but I feel like somebody involved with the podcast 631 00:40:42,579 --> 00:40:47,139 Standards Project reached out to Marco to try to talk about to 632 00:40:47,139 --> 00:40:52,779 try to get overcast on board, because he was, he was all he 633 00:40:52,779 --> 00:40:57,459 was very interested in 2.0 features, up until right about 634 00:40:57,459 --> 00:41:00,659 the time the podcast standards project launched, and then All 635 00:41:00,659 --> 00:41:03,899 of a sudden, he was just flipped because he was talking, he was 636 00:41:03,899 --> 00:41:08,159 on the forum saying, hey, you know, I'm looking to do 637 00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:12,299 chapters, cloud chapters. I'm thinking about doing it this 638 00:41:12,299 --> 00:41:14,819 way. How To what do y'all recommend? There was 639 00:41:14,819 --> 00:41:19,079 communication going on. And then he had an, you know, overcast 640 00:41:19,439 --> 00:41:24,499 started the activity, pub, on podcast, index, dot, social, 641 00:41:24,919 --> 00:41:28,879 there was interaction. And then as soon as the PSP started, that 642 00:41:28,879 --> 00:41:33,679 changed. And I think that something in the original 643 00:41:34,579 --> 00:41:39,079 somebody or somebody, something in the original PSP incarnation, 644 00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:47,019 pissed some people off. And went and because it immediately 645 00:41:47,019 --> 00:41:52,059 became something like, I remember Marcus, you know, 646 00:41:52,179 --> 00:41:55,239 implant, implying that he did not want people telling him what 647 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,499 to do with his own app. And I think there was miscommunication 648 00:41:59,499 --> 00:42:00,519 in some way. Oh, 649 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,200 Adam Curry: no, Dave, of course. No, I don't think there's anyone 650 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,120 tried to do anything nefarious or mean or exclusionary. It just 651 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,640 what we have here is the basic 652 00:42:11,639 --> 00:42:14,759 Dave Jones: lack of communication. Yes, a failure to 653 00:42:14,759 --> 00:42:16,559 communicate. Yes, of course, of 654 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,260 Adam Curry: course. No, no one meant anything bad. But this is 655 00:42:19,260 --> 00:42:21,980 what happens. Is just how it goes. But 656 00:42:21,980 --> 00:42:25,820 Dave Jones: I think that, I think that the you know, that I 657 00:42:25,820 --> 00:42:29,900 think that is or the origin of a lot of this carrot stick stuff. 658 00:42:30,860 --> 00:42:37,100 And I don't, I hate that that is the case, because, you know, I 659 00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:42,580 don't, I 100% guarantee it was not intentional, and it doesn't 660 00:42:42,580 --> 00:42:47,080 really have anything to do with us. 2.0 features have nothing to 661 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,080 do with any sort of standard certification or anything like 662 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,120 that. They're just not the same thing. And so you can, you can 663 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,780 jump on board and add, you know, there's hundreds of 1000s of 664 00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:03,000 feeds out there now that have 2.0 tags in them. And for an app 665 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,320 developer to just ignore that, or a hosting company to ignore 666 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,520 that, doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't, because, 667 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,200 Adam Curry: well, then, well, then you get stuff, well, then 668 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,160 you get into, into personalities and and I'm, I'm definitely 669 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,040 someone who says, Hey, drop that legacy. Why would you deal with 670 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,300 that? You know, and so that and which, with which, I mean 671 00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:28,340 specifically apple and Spotify. And when I say that, I always 672 00:43:28,340 --> 00:43:33,380 add because your favorite podcast may drop away that's 673 00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:37,040 pointing towards the index, not towards anything else. 674 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,780 Specifically, because I know that three to four podcasts per 675 00:43:40,780 --> 00:43:46,180 day are D platform from Apple and from Spotify. And I just, I 676 00:43:46,180 --> 00:43:51,640 find that to be a problem. And and then you add to that are 677 00:43:52,180 --> 00:43:55,240 just the fact that we initially spoke about freedom of speech, 678 00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:57,700 which many within our group said, Oh, man, you got to tone 679 00:43:57,700 --> 00:44:00,720 that down. We did, actually, we did because, you know, okay, you 680 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:02,940 did okay. You want to stone it down. That's a problem. We 681 00:44:02,940 --> 00:44:04,800 don't, you know, we don't have to make money off of saying 682 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,120 we're for freedom of speech. That's okay. But that was in 683 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:14,640 that time period, if you recall, was a lot about covid issues, 684 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:21,560 covid measures, you know, then brand safety came in, racism, 685 00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:24,800 black lives matter. I mean, a whole there's a division in the 686 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:30,380 world that is much bigger than podcasting, and it's very 687 00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:32,900 difficult to then say, Hey, we're just for anybody you want, 688 00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:36,620 as long as it's within the law. You do whatever you want to do, 689 00:44:36,620 --> 00:44:39,080 and we don't care, we're just going to leave it and as long as 690 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,440 you're technically doing the right thing. Then, then 691 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,740 hallelujah, we'll put you in the index. We, you know, submit it 692 00:44:44,740 --> 00:44:49,240 yourself. It's all good to go. So there's a lot of that playing 693 00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:53,200 into it, you know, what side of the political spectrum are you 694 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,920 on? Look, Marco used to support us with $500 a month. He stopped 695 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,180 that six months ago. Maybe. 696 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:00,360 Dave Jones: Yeah, something. Like that. 697 00:45:00,540 --> 00:45:03,180 Adam Curry: I mean, I don't know if he still uses the index. I 698 00:45:03,180 --> 00:45:06,300 mean, we, I thought, we thought we had some synchronizing deal 699 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:09,540 going on between his database and our database. I don't know 700 00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:12,360 if that, if he does that anymore or not. I have no idea still, he 701 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,940 still syncs with us. Yeah, okay, well, so he clearly didn't feel 702 00:45:14,940 --> 00:45:18,120 that there was enough value coming out of the index for him 703 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,140 to support it, which is fine, which is why we never, even 704 00:45:21,140 --> 00:45:24,860 never made mention of, is, okay, fine, that's good with me. 705 00:45:26,659 --> 00:45:28,579 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's not a big deal. No, 706 00:45:28,580 --> 00:45:29,360 Adam Curry: not at all. 707 00:45:30,260 --> 00:45:32,840 Dave Jones: But, you know, I think that. I think, I think 708 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,880 that the free the I think the freedom of speech thing is 709 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,460 probably so one thing they talked about, and this is a 710 00:45:42,460 --> 00:45:48,400 constant source of confusion, is the is value for value is not 711 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:53,380 Satoshis correct that it is not Bitcoin. It is not value for 712 00:45:53,380 --> 00:45:58,780 value. It two, two examples, two easy examples, value for value, 713 00:45:58,780 --> 00:46:03,300 no agenda does not, does not, does not do, uh, lightning 714 00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:04,260 payments. Nope. 715 00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:09,240 Adam Curry: Well, well, it receives lightning payments. But 716 00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:12,420 I if you look at the splits, you'll see that that goes 717 00:46:12,420 --> 00:46:15,180 everywhere, except to Adam curry and John C Dvorak. 718 00:46:15,539 --> 00:46:18,599 Dave Jones: Yeah, you PERS, you the hosts of the show do not 719 00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:22,999 accept lightning payment. No, the the value tag is for a 720 00:46:22,999 --> 00:46:28,039 different function. It's about privacy, payment, privacy, and 721 00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:32,239 removing the middleman from the process. Because, you know, it 722 00:46:32,479 --> 00:46:37,759 is as much as you as as much as people may not agree with this, 723 00:46:37,759 --> 00:46:43,239 if it's politically hot topic, but the Canadian trucker thing 724 00:46:43,779 --> 00:46:49,719 was a clear example of of getting in for political 725 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,099 reasons, getting involved in the payment flow, right? Russia 726 00:46:54,099 --> 00:47:00,399 getting kicked off Swift. We see these politically motivated 727 00:47:01,419 --> 00:47:06,659 things, getting involved in interrupting the flow of of 728 00:47:06,659 --> 00:47:12,959 money, and Alex Jones getting de platformed and Todd. Todd 729 00:47:12,959 --> 00:47:16,799 Cochran says three or four shows, three or four episodes of 730 00:47:16,799 --> 00:47:21,019 podcasts a week are taken down by Spotify from blueberry. From 731 00:47:21,019 --> 00:47:26,059 blueberry shows, these are being demonetized for largely 732 00:47:26,059 --> 00:47:30,199 political reasons or brand safety reasons. And if you look 733 00:47:30,199 --> 00:47:35,599 like I pulled I was listening to America this week, last Friday, 734 00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:39,079 and Walter Kern, you know, we had just talked about, we had 735 00:47:39,079 --> 00:47:44,559 just talked about UID too. And you know, the the problems with 736 00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:50,919 that whole system, and you are into then right after that, I 737 00:47:50,919 --> 00:47:53,319 started listening to America this week, and Walter Kern 738 00:47:53,319 --> 00:47:57,579 starts talking in this clip about marketing and sales 739 00:47:57,819 --> 00:48:01,919 technologies that that eventually feed back into 740 00:48:01,919 --> 00:48:02,639 government. 741 00:48:02,759 --> 00:48:07,139 Unknown: What bothers me mostly is that all of these sales 742 00:48:07,139 --> 00:48:09,359 techniques, these marketing techniques, and these 743 00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:14,159 information engineering techniques feed back into actual 744 00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:18,059 governance and law enforcement, and then they become part of the 745 00:48:18,059 --> 00:48:24,199 law enforcement and sort of security apparatus of the 746 00:48:24,199 --> 00:48:28,639 country. So what we're watching here is kind of like the, you 747 00:48:28,639 --> 00:48:32,599 know, the profane version the marketing, electoral, you know, 748 00:48:33,619 --> 00:48:37,819 branding, getting somebody into Office part. But what we're not 749 00:48:37,819 --> 00:48:42,039 seeing is that these same tools and these same people, in many 750 00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:46,659 cases, are all then go into government and start to use 751 00:48:46,659 --> 00:48:49,959 these things in an official capacity, a disciplinary 752 00:48:49,959 --> 00:48:55,539 capacity, sometimes a punitive capacity. And it's not just 753 00:48:55,659 --> 00:49:00,659 marketing anymore. It's running our lives astute, to say the 754 00:49:00,659 --> 00:49:01,139 least, 755 00:49:01,799 --> 00:49:03,899 Dave Jones: yeah. And so the, you know, we talked about the 756 00:49:03,899 --> 00:49:07,439 this UID to network. I mean, remember what this thing is. 757 00:49:07,439 --> 00:49:13,019 This is a UID to is a marketing ID that is a hash derived from a 758 00:49:13,019 --> 00:49:18,059 piece of what they call dii, which is personal information, 759 00:49:18,059 --> 00:49:25,159 email address, phone number, and that will feedback that gets 760 00:49:25,159 --> 00:49:31,039 distributed to all these, what they call operator nodes. Um is 761 00:49:31,039 --> 00:49:33,979 so you have a shared hash from your private from from your 762 00:49:33,979 --> 00:49:37,279 private identification, identifying information. It's 763 00:49:37,699 --> 00:49:40,539 getting passed around amongst all these ad marketing servers. 764 00:49:41,259 --> 00:49:44,319 So if you buy something on Amazon and you listen to 765 00:49:44,319 --> 00:49:47,739 something on Spotify, and then you post something on Twitter, 766 00:49:48,399 --> 00:49:53,439 these DSP servers that fulfill the ad placements, they're gonna 767 00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:57,579 they're all going to know that it was you. Now, supposedly they 768 00:49:57,579 --> 00:50:02,459 don't, supposedly the DSP does. Doesn't know who quote you are, 769 00:50:02,459 --> 00:50:07,199 because they're just have a hash, but every player in the 770 00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:10,919 market knows, because they have the actual they're the ones that 771 00:50:10,919 --> 00:50:15,359 created the hash. So you know, you can imagine coder like coder 772 00:50:15,359 --> 00:50:19,499 radio. This week, Chris was talking about cars that now 773 00:50:19,499 --> 00:50:23,359 track your speed by default, unless you opt out, you know, 774 00:50:23,479 --> 00:50:25,999 all of a sudden. So now that that's another player in there 775 00:50:25,999 --> 00:50:32,119 that can they could spin up a UID, a UID to server and hash 776 00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:34,579 your email address, start feeding this stuff back in. All 777 00:50:34,579 --> 00:50:38,539 of a sudden. Now you're getting ads for high risk car insurance 778 00:50:39,259 --> 00:50:45,459 on when you do Google searches. I mean, they this. People who 779 00:50:45,459 --> 00:50:48,219 listen to thrash metal may have more car accidents, so what your 780 00:50:48,219 --> 00:50:52,239 Spotify playlist is determines what your insurance rates are. 781 00:50:52,659 --> 00:50:56,919 That you know, this is a system where everyone knows who you 782 00:50:56,919 --> 00:51:00,479 are, because they've all hashed your email address, except the 783 00:51:00,479 --> 00:51:05,219 DSP serving the ads. Of course, government is going to subpoena 784 00:51:05,219 --> 00:51:08,519 these records as part of just standard procedure. It'll just 785 00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:12,119 become a standard part of the grab the phone, decrypt 786 00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:14,759 everything, get all the information, get your search 787 00:51:14,759 --> 00:51:17,999 history. This is, this is just all going to be part of the same 788 00:51:17,999 --> 00:51:23,179 process, and this is the world that we live in right now. You 789 00:51:23,179 --> 00:51:26,839 know this the other guy, it's all, you know, it's always the 790 00:51:26,899 --> 00:51:30,199 the other guy that you have to worry about. Think about 1988 791 00:51:30,619 --> 00:51:34,159 you had Ronald Reagan. 20 years later, you have Obama. Things 792 00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:37,399 flip, and then you went to Trump, and then you went to 793 00:51:37,399 --> 00:51:42,099 Biden. Things flip very quickly. It's not the it's not your when 794 00:51:42,099 --> 00:51:46,179 you create technologies and you create systems and protocols 795 00:51:46,179 --> 00:51:50,199 that work a certain way, they have to be resilient to stand up 796 00:51:50,199 --> 00:51:55,119 to the worst possible person on the other side of your political 797 00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:59,199 ideas that you can imagine. And if they're not, you're doing it 798 00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:03,119 wrong. So that's the I that's what we went into this whole 799 00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:07,439 thing with, is this idea that we're going to build these 800 00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:15,299 protocols where the feed itself and the app can communicate 801 00:52:15,299 --> 00:52:21,499 together, the listener and the and the and the podcaster have a 802 00:52:21,499 --> 00:52:25,459 direct relationship that doesn't depend on any third parties 803 00:52:25,699 --> 00:52:29,539 being trusted to, quote, do the right thing, okay, man. Because 804 00:52:29,539 --> 00:52:34,339 if you, if you ever put that, if that's in your flow chart, where 805 00:52:34,339 --> 00:52:37,159 you have this person in the middle who you're going to trust 806 00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:40,719 to just be benevolent, you're doing it wrong. 807 00:52:41,259 --> 00:52:45,759 Adam Curry: I want to, I want to take it to another topic that is 808 00:52:45,819 --> 00:52:52,719 along with this. And I want to, I have a suggestion. So just as 809 00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:58,719 expected, uh, Patreon became a problem this week. Yeah, um, 810 00:52:59,199 --> 00:53:05,759 which supposedly Patreon is used by 40,000 podcasts, which, by 811 00:53:05,759 --> 00:53:09,539 the way, if you look at value for value, payments being 20,000 812 00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:16,319 or 22,000 whatever it is, not bad. And so now everybody's 813 00:53:16,319 --> 00:53:19,979 freaking out about, you know, I guess, because, I mean, Patreon, 814 00:53:20,039 --> 00:53:23,659 yeah, podcast, sure, but it's used for all kinds of stuff, 815 00:53:23,659 --> 00:53:27,979 people's poetry, people's art projects, people's blog posts. 816 00:53:27,979 --> 00:53:34,159 It's used for many things, and they are now going to be subject 817 00:53:34,159 --> 00:53:38,419 to the Apple Store tax. I would like to make a proposal that the 818 00:53:38,419 --> 00:53:44,859 most important tag we can promote and promote to. In fact, 819 00:53:44,859 --> 00:53:50,919 Apple is the funding tag, and I am going to start promoting this 820 00:53:50,919 --> 00:53:54,519 very heavily on no agenda, because as far as I know, almost 821 00:53:54,519 --> 00:54:00,839 every single one of the modern podcast apps, the ones that have 822 00:54:01,019 --> 00:54:06,119 namespace understanding, I think they all support funding. Yeah, 823 00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:10,199 it's pretty broad, yeah. And this would also immediately 824 00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:14,639 solve the entire Patreon problem for these apparent 40,000 825 00:54:15,059 --> 00:54:20,539 podcasters, all you do is put your Patreon link in the funding 826 00:54:20,539 --> 00:54:27,259 tag, and Bob's your uncle. Ooh, timing is beautiful. Boom, thank 827 00:54:27,259 --> 00:54:33,319 you. Dee laughs. Who says, Love the conversation. So right now, 828 00:54:33,319 --> 00:54:36,319 on no agenda, the funding tag, I'm gonna tell everyone, Hey, 829 00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:38,779 you want to help it. You want to support us in your modern 830 00:54:38,779 --> 00:54:41,619 podcast app, just hit that little that little money button 831 00:54:41,619 --> 00:54:45,759 up there, it'll take you right to our donation page, and from 832 00:54:45,759 --> 00:54:49,059 there, you can decide how you want to support us. I think this 833 00:54:49,059 --> 00:54:55,179 is, this is a a big problem solving tag, and think of all 834 00:54:55,179 --> 00:54:58,119 the different hosting companies who could be promoting this to a 835 00:54:58,119 --> 00:55:03,779 lot of people use Patreon. A lot. So instead of sending your 836 00:55:03,779 --> 00:55:07,439 people into an app where you're going to get penalized up to 30% 837 00:55:08,699 --> 00:55:11,519 you can now send them off to Patreon or wherever you want to 838 00:55:11,519 --> 00:55:14,459 send them to, to your own stripe pay. You can get a Stripe 839 00:55:14,459 --> 00:55:17,879 account and have your own, your own credit card system. 840 00:55:19,679 --> 00:55:22,879 Dave Jones: And I think that fits well with another, another 841 00:55:22,879 --> 00:55:26,239 misconception that was brought up in in the in the lips and 842 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:31,699 show is you do not need in app support for this to work. You 843 00:55:31,699 --> 00:55:35,179 just need a QR code. All you need is a link so the funding 844 00:55:35,179 --> 00:55:38,659 tag could take you out just like we saw at bands. When I went to 845 00:55:38,659 --> 00:55:44,619 bands at Bitcoin, I did not, I did not send those boosts 846 00:55:44,679 --> 00:55:49,119 through a podcast app. I sent them. I sent all that, all those 847 00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:53,139 donations. I sent by scanning the QR code that was up on the 848 00:55:53,139 --> 00:55:58,719 screen at the at the event, put in my message, typed in how much 849 00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,979 I wanted to send, and I did it that way. I didn't do it 850 00:56:01,979 --> 00:56:05,519 through, through the app itself. I could have, I could have for 851 00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:09,119 apps that support that. It's very convenient, but it's not 852 00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:12,299 required, right? And so the funding tag could easily take 853 00:56:12,299 --> 00:56:17,099 you to a donation page of any type, lightning, PayPal. This 854 00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:24,019 all our show the boardroom gets more donation money, yeah, from 855 00:56:24,019 --> 00:56:28,039 every month from PayPal than we do from from lightning. 856 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,920 Adam Curry: Let me just, let me double check and make sure our 857 00:56:32,780 --> 00:56:37,760 let's see what's in our show. Info owner, info support, like, 858 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:37,940 sure 859 00:56:37,940 --> 00:56:39,380 Dave Jones: it's still our PayPal Yeah, 860 00:56:39,380 --> 00:56:40,600 Adam Curry: still our PayPal link. Yep, 861 00:56:41,199 --> 00:56:44,199 Dave Jones: yeah, exactly. There's just these, these 862 00:56:44,199 --> 00:56:50,679 missing, these misunderstandings and missed misdescriptions of of 863 00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:55,539 the way these tags work. Don't do they don't help anything. No, 864 00:56:55,539 --> 00:56:57,879 they really don't. They don't. They don't help anybody. They 865 00:56:57,879 --> 00:57:04,319 don't help anything. I mean, if I would say that, if, you know, 866 00:57:04,319 --> 00:57:07,799 I would say that if, if, if Listen, it sounds like what 867 00:57:07,799 --> 00:57:11,099 they're doing is selling off some of their, you know, sort of 868 00:57:11,099 --> 00:57:13,739 extraneous businesses that they had picked up over the past few 869 00:57:13,739 --> 00:57:16,559 years, and they're concentrating, concentrating 870 00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:21,919 back on their core hosting business, you know, I feel like 871 00:57:21,979 --> 00:57:25,159 now is a great time for them to do these sorts of things, 872 00:57:25,699 --> 00:57:29,419 because when you're caught, when you when you're when core, when 873 00:57:29,419 --> 00:57:33,799 you're when, podcast hosting is your focus, the landscape has 874 00:57:33,799 --> 00:57:37,759 changed in the last few years. If feature features really 875 00:57:37,759 --> 00:57:41,919 matter, and the more you can put in there, the better. So, I 876 00:57:41,919 --> 00:57:46,119 mean, I don't, you know, I don't think it makes any sense to sort 877 00:57:46,119 --> 00:57:51,099 of like jettison any features just because you don't 878 00:57:51,099 --> 00:57:54,639 understand. Just go read, go read about them, see what they 879 00:57:54,639 --> 00:57:59,499 really and truly do. Get a get a podcast app, and play with them 880 00:57:59,919 --> 00:58:03,419 with the features. And then you'll, you'll see that it's not 881 00:58:03,659 --> 00:58:07,139 the person, the person tag is not the is not iTunes author. 882 00:58:07,379 --> 00:58:09,779 They don't do the same. They're completely different. They don't 883 00:58:09,779 --> 00:58:13,439 do the same thing. And the, you know, which is another 884 00:58:13,439 --> 00:58:23,419 misconception that they had, the the the idea that, some of the 885 00:58:23,419 --> 00:58:25,879 podcast, I heard this a lot, that the podcasting two point no 886 00:58:25,879 --> 00:58:30,379 tags are reinventing things that already exist in the RSS feed. 887 00:58:30,979 --> 00:58:38,419 In RSS, yeah, that where that happens. So let's discuss that 888 00:58:38,419 --> 00:58:44,499 for a second, where there is overlap. We've and we've 889 00:58:44,499 --> 00:58:49,839 discussed this before, many times where there is overlap, 890 00:58:49,839 --> 00:58:58,419 it's for a couple of reasons, if no the first reason is that we 891 00:58:58,419 --> 00:59:07,259 are trying to add features to namespaces that do not have open 892 00:59:07,259 --> 00:59:12,779 governance, that would be iTunes, right? And things like 893 00:59:13,739 --> 00:59:22,399 the media RSS, the media RSS namespace, the Dublin Core RSS 894 00:59:22,399 --> 00:59:25,099 namespace. These are all namespaces that were invented 895 00:59:25,399 --> 00:59:29,899 many years ago, more than a decade ago, and have long since 896 00:59:29,899 --> 00:59:33,919 had their quote governing bodies or the people who control them, 897 00:59:34,099 --> 00:59:38,299 they've gone away. Yeah, you can't modify those namespaces 898 00:59:38,299 --> 00:59:42,639 because the spec is frozen. And this is the world again that we 899 00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:47,619 came into with podcasting 2.0 there was no podcast specific 900 00:59:47,619 --> 00:59:51,819 name space where the podcast industry, meaning the hosting 901 00:59:51,819 --> 00:59:55,719 companies, the apps and the podcasters and everybody 902 00:59:55,719 --> 01:00:00,239 involved, could have a voice in creating and changing. In the 903 01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:04,859 spec in real time as a living document. That's what we're 904 01:00:04,859 --> 01:00:09,959 doing. And so, because if you want to go back and and make a 905 01:00:09,959 --> 01:00:13,259 modification to the way the i, if you want to make a 906 01:00:13,259 --> 01:00:16,379 modification to the way the iTunes namespace tag works, one 907 01:00:16,379 --> 01:00:21,199 of those tags, you can't, yes, it's not, your is. You can't 908 01:00:21,199 --> 01:00:24,379 change that, right? It's Apple's discretion. They're the only 909 01:00:24,379 --> 01:00:29,599 ones that can change it, and they don't play ball. So we do 910 01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:35,539 things sometimes, like the like the season tag, the podcast 911 01:00:35,539 --> 01:00:39,019 season tag is made to be perfectly backwards compatible 912 01:00:39,019 --> 01:00:42,519 with the iTunes season tag, except it adds another attribute 913 01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:46,719 for name, for naming a season, because that's what, because 914 01:00:46,719 --> 01:00:52,059 people asked us for that specifically, NPR asked us to 915 01:00:52,059 --> 01:00:56,739 build a tag that would do that specific thing, and we did. And 916 01:00:56,799 --> 01:00:59,799 that is something that you will not get from a proprietary 917 01:00:59,799 --> 01:01:02,759 namespace or a name space that who's dot, whose founding 918 01:01:02,759 --> 01:01:08,339 document is dead, you can't do it that way. So where there's 919 01:01:08,339 --> 01:01:13,139 overlap is for one of those two reasons, either it's proprietary 920 01:01:13,139 --> 01:01:18,539 and you and you can't control it, or the governing body for it 921 01:01:18,539 --> 01:01:22,519 is long gone and it's frozen now. What we have now is the 922 01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:29,839 podcast namespace, known as podcasting 2.0 and you can as as 923 01:01:29,839 --> 01:01:37,099 Lipson or or Pocket Casts, or Buzz sprout, or whoever you can 924 01:01:37,099 --> 01:01:39,979 participate in the pro and true true fans, anybody you can 925 01:01:39,979 --> 01:01:44,379 participate in the process, propose pull requests, propose 926 01:01:44,379 --> 01:01:49,839 tags, do all that kind of stuff, and you can create the 2.0 that 927 01:01:49,839 --> 01:01:50,559 you want. 928 01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:56,260 Adam Curry: And everyone always seems to forget the podcasters. 929 01:01:57,220 --> 01:01:59,920 You know, podcasters who really care about what they're doing, 930 01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:03,240 really want to make it successful, need to understand 931 01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:07,020 it's not a radio show. It's not a not just a YouTube thing. It's 932 01:02:07,020 --> 01:02:11,100 an interaction with your audience. No agenda has just shy 933 01:02:11,100 --> 01:02:15,480 of 900,000 unique audience members per month, according to 934 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,380 OP three, which is all I have to go on, and which I think is 935 01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:25,040 pretty, pretty good. I love looking at my top Apps page, 936 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,120 Apple podcasts, and we're not even on Spotify. I refuse to 937 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:33,380 sign a contract to have my feed featured somewhere, so we're not 938 01:02:33,380 --> 01:02:41,200 on Spotify. It didn't hurt us at all, by the way, 34% is apple. 939 01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:45,460 Pod verse is number two. Then podcast attic, overcast, podcast 940 01:02:45,460 --> 01:02:50,200 guru, Pocket Cast fountain, four and a half percent unknown Apple 941 01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:55,660 app. Then antenna pod cast box, I guess we're in iHeartRadio, 1% 942 01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:01,020 cast O Matic, and it goes on and on. You know the there is no 943 01:03:01,020 --> 01:03:06,180 Spotify, and our measurement has always been, can I pay my rent? 944 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:12,240 Oh, we'd had a good month. Good shows. You know it that's that's 945 01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:18,360 successful podcasting is we're talking about the features that 946 01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,980 we have use the apps, please, that we recommend people will do 947 01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:26,540 it. No app can force itself on people. It's not, that's not how 948 01:03:26,540 --> 01:03:28,160 it works. No, 949 01:03:28,819 --> 01:03:31,759 Dave Jones: and we can't force any. We can't force any of our 950 01:03:31,759 --> 01:03:34,459 stuff on anybody. No, it's everybody's choice. There is no 951 01:03:34,459 --> 01:03:38,299 stick. There's no there is absolutely no stick. 952 01:03:38,300 --> 01:03:42,340 Adam Curry: There's no stick. There's no stick, man, it's 953 01:03:42,340 --> 01:03:46,660 Dave Jones: just one giant carrot that's all that all 954 01:03:46,660 --> 01:03:48,940 that's all there is. There's no stick. There's no string. 955 01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:55,120 There's nothing there that I I don't blame, I don't blame 956 01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,960 Marco. If I had gotten that call or that email from some, from 957 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,960 somebody wanting to, like, put a standard sticker on my app or 958 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,780 something like that. I get pissed off too. I mean, I 959 01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:10,800 bristle at being told, what be at somebody being told, like, 960 01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:15,060 feeling like I'm being told what to do. I get it. You know, I get 961 01:04:15,060 --> 01:04:18,420 it. I hope that's not what happened, but that's the only 962 01:04:18,420 --> 01:04:21,200 thing I can think of. But, but the other side of this. Let's, 963 01:04:21,380 --> 01:04:24,560 let's talk about this, though, the other side of this, who has 964 01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:31,280 a bigger stick us, or Apple and Spotify, right? I mean, their 965 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,180 stick is huge. They love sucking their stick. I mean, they've 966 01:04:35,180 --> 01:04:39,680 got, they've got a tree trunk size stick that they're willing 967 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,600 to that they will hit anybody over the head with they, they 968 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,380 just up and say, you know, hey, here's what we're doing. You 969 01:04:47,380 --> 01:04:50,320 either get on board or you can, you know, go pound sand. Yeah, 970 01:04:50,380 --> 01:04:53,440 that's this. That's the stick. We don't have a stick. They do, 971 01:04:53,740 --> 01:04:57,640 you know. And I know there's personal stuff going on here as 972 01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:00,180 well. I mean, when you hear, when you hear people like. Dave 973 01:05:00,180 --> 01:05:03,300 Weiner and Leo Laporte, you know, pooping all over 974 01:05:03,300 --> 01:05:06,600 podcasting 2.0 those are personal issues. Yeah, they 975 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,660 don't, they don't like, you know, they don't like you or me 976 01:05:09,660 --> 01:05:12,960 or both of us. Those are personal. They just don't say it 977 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,740 out loud. And, you know, James said that Rob doesn't like him 978 01:05:16,740 --> 01:05:19,500 very much. And that may be the case there. So there may be some 979 01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:22,100 of this stuff may be personal, and I can, I'm just gonna leave 980 01:05:22,100 --> 01:05:24,740 that alone, and that's that's something that I don't want to 981 01:05:24,740 --> 01:05:31,100 get into. But I hope, as far as you know, as for my biggest 982 01:05:31,100 --> 01:05:38,000 concern is that P is that people were turned off by the Standards 983 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:46,180 Project talk, because that that was an it wasn't, I don't think 984 01:05:46,180 --> 01:05:52,300 anybody intended to make anybody upset. No, I really don't know. 985 01:05:52,300 --> 01:05:55,600 I don't I know everybody. We know everybody involved in 986 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,360 podcast editors project, no, that was never the intent. I 987 01:05:58,360 --> 01:05:58,600 think 988 01:05:58,599 --> 01:06:00,299 Adam Curry: it was some people just thought, Who made you the 989 01:06:00,299 --> 01:06:01,499 boss of podcasting? 990 01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:04,980 Dave Jones: Exactly, if you got a guy like Rob has been around 991 01:06:04,980 --> 01:06:07,800 for 20 years in podcasting, he's probably going to get pissed off 992 01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,020 because he's like, Hey, I've been here forever, you know. 993 01:06:10,020 --> 01:06:14,460 Like, who are you? Like, nobody. Nobody gave you the, you know, 994 01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:17,280 the ball as so anyway, 995 01:06:17,940 --> 01:06:19,020 Adam Curry: can I play a song? 996 01:06:20,099 --> 01:06:22,399 Dave Jones: Oh, well, we there yet? Yeah, 997 01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:28,040 Adam Curry: okay, yeah, okay, well, I scoured the universe 998 01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,780 known as the value verse, and which I love doing in the split 999 01:06:32,780 --> 01:06:36,800 kit before every show. And this was just like, so bluesy. 1000 01:06:37,580 --> 01:06:46,660 There's some great horn in this. There's a lot of like that. It's 1001 01:06:46,660 --> 01:06:49,540 Cara Frazier boosted everybody. Let them know you heard about it 1002 01:06:49,540 --> 01:06:49,960 on 2.0 1003 01:06:56,139 --> 01:07:02,219 Unknown: to the days when we were young, when I was just a 1004 01:07:02,219 --> 01:07:14,999 girl and you were the boy next door, then you left this town To 1005 01:07:15,059 --> 01:07:20,399 make something yourself. Now they brought you back around. 1006 01:07:20,399 --> 01:07:26,719 Background, but don't put me on the shelf. I 1007 01:07:47,380 --> 01:08:16,080 Oh, oh, I wanna be 1008 01:08:31,460 --> 01:08:38,840 I don't you see your heart will I can't change your mind. Change 1009 01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:44,980 your mind. Just remember, I 1010 01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:02,079 give you a Man. 1011 01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:32,600 He will win 1012 01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:39,860 I wanna Be Oh. 1013 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,980 Adam Curry: I want to be your woman. Cara Frazier, here in the 1014 01:10:50,980 --> 01:10:55,360 boardroom, if you are listening to this, get a modern podcast 1015 01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,960 app. Figure out how to use some of those sweet, sweet Satoshis. 1016 01:10:59,140 --> 01:11:02,520 Or find her website. Find her on wave Lake, whatever it is, 1017 01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,000 support these artists. And this is really my, my final point on 1018 01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,740 this. We did bands at Bitcoin, 1000s of dollars, went to the 1019 01:11:10,740 --> 01:11:14,280 artists who performed. I mean, some was it, Andy rock and roll 1020 01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:18,120 break hard, drove from Ohio to be there. Why? Because there 1021 01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,080 were enough people. There's enough people in the group, in 1022 01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,620 the community who want to show appreciation, who want to 1023 01:11:24,620 --> 01:11:28,280 deliver value when I do a boost to Grand Ball for a couple 1000 1024 01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:32,180 people, I don't care if I'm number one on the charts or so. 1025 01:11:32,180 --> 01:11:35,960 I don't care I'm there because I love what I do. I love my truck. 1026 01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:40,360 I love what I do. I love the fact that people can support 1027 01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:44,440 these artists directly through the modern podcast apps. That's 1028 01:11:44,440 --> 01:11:49,060 what it's about. The day the future of media is small. It's 1029 01:11:49,060 --> 01:11:53,020 very, very small. We're going to see many streaming companies 1030 01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,620 fold and go out of business because the ad based model is 1031 01:11:56,620 --> 01:12:00,600 not going to work for them. It's too expensive. You know, I think 1032 01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,800 I see shows going and maybe small production houses going to 1033 01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:09,060 their own systems, which are just their system for the people 1034 01:12:09,060 --> 01:12:13,680 that appreciate them. We are in a very painful birthing process, 1035 01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:18,480 but once you set your mind to it, like it doesn't matter. We 1036 01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:21,980 don't need to have streaming micro payments be the future of 1037 01:12:21,980 --> 01:12:29,840 media. There is no future of media. It's small, small. That's 1038 01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:30,680 what it is. 1039 01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,860 Dave Jones: I just, I mean, we, we had a discussion, like we 1040 01:12:36,860 --> 01:12:42,400 talked about earlier. We had a call with, with this, you know, 1041 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:46,540 the CEO of of Lipson, and their lead developer, and I thought it 1042 01:12:46,540 --> 01:12:51,160 went great, and I hope we can, oh, we can have another call 1043 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:53,560 with them at some point in the future when they're ready. 1044 01:12:54,100 --> 01:12:56,980 Because I think, I still think it's just a great idea for them. 1045 01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:01,860 And I think they're, I think they're talented, you know, 1046 01:13:01,980 --> 01:13:05,520 they, they don't, you don't last this long in this interest in 1047 01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,700 this industry, without being talented. And I think they have 1048 01:13:08,700 --> 01:13:12,540 a lot of, you know, I think they just got stuck in a lot of bad 1049 01:13:12,540 --> 01:13:14,760 situations over the years. And then they seem like they're, 1050 01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:18,480 they seem like they're coming out of that, which is what I 1051 01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:22,460 see. It seems like they're like they survived. They survived all 1052 01:13:22,460 --> 01:13:25,820 that, you know, all that trouble and financial nonsense. And I 1053 01:13:25,820 --> 01:13:30,980 think that now is probably a good time to to, you know, recon 1054 01:13:30,980 --> 01:13:34,700 order, and say, what are the features that our customers 1055 01:13:34,700 --> 01:13:38,360 would like the most? And, you know, I'm happy to jump on a 1056 01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:40,040 call with them anytime. I hope we can 1057 01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,700 Adam Curry: Well, unfortunately, I think what most of their 1058 01:13:42,700 --> 01:13:45,760 customers are looking for is the same. Is to say, I've been 1059 01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,940 around same thing we went through with blogging. How do I 1060 01:13:48,940 --> 01:13:53,320 make money with this? That's the number one feature, and that's 1061 01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:57,220 why there's they spent a lot of time, money and effort, as do 1062 01:13:57,220 --> 01:14:00,900 most people in the quote, unquote industry. Is, how do we 1063 01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:04,020 make advertising work? Well, guess what? There's too much 1064 01:14:04,020 --> 01:14:10,560 inventory. You can make as much inventory as you want. It's 1065 01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,140 irrelevant. You know, it's a race to the bottom of CPMs. 1066 01:14:13,140 --> 01:14:15,840 That's exactly what happened to banner ads. That's what happened 1067 01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:20,720 to blogs. You know, it's just going to keep happening over and 1068 01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,360 over again until we wake up and say, Oh, that's really not the 1069 01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,300 way forward. It's just not, 1070 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:31,760 Dave Jones: you know, you know who so true fans is putting 1071 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:34,340 their I don't know if you saw a sand post about their activity 1072 01:14:34,340 --> 01:14:38,900 pub server, they're about to launch that. Yes, that I'm like, 1073 01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,680 so I'm really stoked about that, by the 1074 01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:43,900 Adam Curry: way, just just looking at our numbers, true 1075 01:14:43,900 --> 01:14:47,020 fans has popped up all of a sudden. You really have you 1076 01:14:47,020 --> 01:14:47,620 noticed that? 1077 01:14:48,340 --> 01:14:50,500 Dave Jones: I haven't. I don't look out because 1078 01:14:50,500 --> 01:14:53,920 Adam Curry: we get a daily email it shows how many transactions 1079 01:14:53,980 --> 01:15:00,900 each app has done in 2.0 and Oh, that. Oh yeah. Good. Look. Yeah, 1080 01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,080 then I would say that many days true fans wouldn't even be on 1081 01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:09,780 there. So, I mean, I'm not sure. I think that they add 1% 1082 01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,600 Dave Jones: I'm not, I believe. So it's in the top five. Yeah, 1083 01:15:12,660 --> 01:15:14,580 Adam Curry: yeah. All of a sudden, true fans is popping up. 1084 01:15:14,580 --> 01:15:17,040 So something, something's happening over there. And I'm 1085 01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:22,880 delighted. I'm delighted with the with the activity pub 1086 01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,220 integrations. Great, good idea. 1087 01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:29,960 Dave Jones: Yeah, me too. And I think that like so that it fits 1088 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,740 so well. I'm really eager to see what that looks like, because I 1089 01:15:33,740 --> 01:15:37,820 think it just that is a launch pad for cross app, comments, 1090 01:15:37,820 --> 01:15:43,360 everything. And, you know, I, I still hope to, at some point, 1091 01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:49,360 get time to to write some code that will pull this stuff out, 1092 01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:53,320 the stuff that's going on out of nostr, and then bring it, bring 1093 01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,620 it over to bridge all this stuff together so that we can so that 1094 01:15:56,620 --> 01:15:59,920 both, both sides of the coin can play nice with each other. Yeah. 1095 01:16:00,220 --> 01:16:05,400 And I think that true true fans is, I wonder if we need, I 1096 01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,880 wonder if we need to create something, some open source, 1097 01:16:09,660 --> 01:16:15,600 lightweight server code that will allow some that will allow 1098 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:20,600 apps to implement this. Basically do what true fans is 1099 01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:24,740 doing with activity problems, activity streams like, because 1100 01:16:24,740 --> 01:16:27,920 essentially, what he's what they're doing is pushing out 1101 01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:32,000 like, as you do things in the app, they're creating an 1102 01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:36,980 activity stream feed, yeah, of actions you've taken, playing, 1103 01:16:36,980 --> 01:16:41,200 you know, liking an episode, Playing a episode, following a 1104 01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:45,280 podcast. All of these things are actions that they create a feed 1105 01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:49,660 off of that is you and you, you know, you can disable it the 1106 01:16:49,660 --> 01:16:54,520 activity stream, yeah. And you can keep that stuff private if 1107 01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:59,800 you want to, but, but, but you, if you make it public or not, 1108 01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:02,280 you choose the visibility. That's how that works. You 1109 01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:05,940 choose that visible it is. Well, I mean, if other apps want to do 1110 01:17:05,940 --> 01:17:10,200 that, and then they start, you know, maybe we should write, 1111 01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,960 like, an open source reference implementation for that sort of 1112 01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:17,820 activity, sort of like, or maybe, maybe it should be added 1113 01:17:17,820 --> 01:17:24,260 into something like, what's Andrew grumman's thing called, 1114 01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:27,680 it's not the wherever player. It's anywhere, 1115 01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:30,140 Adam Curry: anywhere. Got audio, 1116 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,560 Dave Jones: yeah, but what's, what's his back end? Oh, the 1117 01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,820 proxy. Yeah, the proxy. What I can't I'm drawing a blank right 1118 01:17:37,820 --> 01:17:39,440 now. Anyway, 1119 01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:42,879 Adam Curry: his Andrew, Andrews yelling at his is, it's not 1120 01:17:42,879 --> 01:17:46,599 anywhere. It's not anywhere to audio player, but it's not 1121 01:17:46,599 --> 01:17:49,359 that's, that's not it either. Oh, I feel stupid now. 1122 01:17:49,359 --> 01:17:51,159 Dave Jones: It's, I thought it's where. It's wherever, not 1123 01:17:51,159 --> 01:17:55,299 anywhere, but, but, but the the proxy, I can't remember the 1124 01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:56,560 Unknown: name audio, 1125 01:17:58,780 --> 01:18:01,860 Dave Jones: but like it, maybe it could be plugged into that or 1126 01:18:01,860 --> 01:18:04,380 something. But I'm just because. What I'm just thinking is I 1127 01:18:04,380 --> 01:18:09,000 would love to have like the show umbilical, umbilical, umbilical, 1128 01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,040 thank you. That does not start with a P, 1129 01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:13,320 Adam Curry: nope. Not even close. I'll put it in the show 1130 01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:15,000 notes. Okay, 1131 01:18:17,820 --> 01:18:21,020 Dave Jones: so I would love being a custom addicts, my daily 1132 01:18:21,020 --> 01:18:26,840 driver. I would love for my cast O Matic, uh, activity, to just 1133 01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:30,920 go into a feed somewhere, to go, to go into an active my, my 1134 01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:34,760 activity, pub, feed, I wouldn't mind that at all. I would love 1135 01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:38,480 that. And then, because that's kind of like, uh, you know, 1136 01:18:38,540 --> 01:18:40,480 that's kind of, that's freedom controller. 1137 01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:44,799 Adam Curry: Ish, yeah, yes, it is. You're so right. It 1138 01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:46,480 Dave Jones: is, you know, because, because the idea, and 1139 01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:49,660 always in freedom controller was, as you're reading articles 1140 01:18:49,660 --> 01:18:52,420 and saving articles, it's creating an RSS feed that other 1141 01:18:52,420 --> 01:18:55,180 people can follow, so that they can follow along with what you 1142 01:18:55,180 --> 01:19:00,780 read. Yeah, and that's, that's the way this, the true fans 1143 01:19:00,780 --> 01:19:05,280 activity works, and I would love to have that in my podcast app. 1144 01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,660 And then, you know, because I found that I find the history of 1145 01:19:09,660 --> 01:19:13,800 what I do to be very valuable, because you like, you're trying 1146 01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:18,600 to remember something you listen to the other day. This is, yeah, 1147 01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:19,320 this is my, 1148 01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:26,720 Adam Curry: my daily driver, podcast guru has a bringing it 1149 01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:32,240 up now, has a couple of tabs, and one of them is playlist, and 1150 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:36,020 it also has a history. And there's all kinds of stuff there 1151 01:19:36,020 --> 01:19:37,880 that I can Oh, yeah, I was listening. And, you know, 1152 01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:40,600 obviously it picks it right up where I left off listening. And, 1153 01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:44,080 yeah, it's very valuable, very valuable. And to be able to 1154 01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:46,780 share that, or have that in multiple places, or flow through 1155 01:19:46,780 --> 01:19:48,460 to something else, totally agree, 1156 01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:52,240 Dave Jones: yeah, yeah. And I think, I think that's so I'm 1157 01:19:52,300 --> 01:19:54,760 thinking about, you know, I'm thinking about that. I'm kind of 1158 01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:57,880 glad I did, kind of glad I didn't start working on the 1159 01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,920 nostr Bridge stuff yet, because. Because now I kind of want to 1160 01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:10,260 see what Sam did is, was Sam, what they built, and to be able 1161 01:20:10,260 --> 01:20:13,860 to know exactly like I want to, I want to make, make it work 1162 01:20:13,860 --> 01:20:17,160 well. And, you know, in addition to true fan, like true, you 1163 01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:19,800 know, Sam's always plowing forward with a million things, 1164 01:20:20,460 --> 01:20:24,920 but then, and, but I think blueberry also, you know, I got 1165 01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:28,400 mad respect for Todd. And then the guys at blueberry just 1166 01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:34,340 taking arrows in the legs all the time. You know, this many 1167 01:20:34,340 --> 01:20:38,240 hosts and apps, they take the safe approach, yeah, which 1168 01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,200 there's nothing wrong with. I mean, you, you they take, they 1169 01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:46,420 take a safer approach. But blueberry and true fans are just 1170 01:20:46,420 --> 01:20:50,740 slamming it. And sometimes they, you know, sometimes it's messy, 1171 01:20:50,860 --> 01:20:55,360 yeah, like, I mean, you know, blueberries getting a lot of, 1172 01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:58,720 you know, they're getting, having trouble with their 1173 01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:04,920 alternate enclosure stuff, but using YouTube, their YouTube 1174 01:21:04,980 --> 01:21:08,640 alternating closure playground thing, but that they're trying 1175 01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:09,780 new stuff, by 1176 01:21:09,780 --> 01:21:14,700 Adam Curry: the way. Sam, Sam, just boosted in and true fans 1177 01:21:14,700 --> 01:21:19,800 thought social is live. And I actually just sent him a toot. 1178 01:21:20,100 --> 01:21:24,740 Sam at true fans, thought social. I looked him up at 1179 01:21:24,740 --> 01:21:28,340 podcasting style social. Sam Sethi, there it is. Shows it 1180 01:21:28,340 --> 01:21:30,440 right there. Shows the four accounts, but you know, 1181 01:21:30,440 --> 01:21:32,060 including his threads. And 1182 01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:34,940 Dave Jones: if you go to true fans, dot social, just in the 1183 01:21:34,940 --> 01:21:37,700 web browser, what you get is hello world. 1184 01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:42,760 Adam Curry: It works. It's all you need. It's all you need. I 1185 01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:43,120 do, was 1186 01:21:43,119 --> 01:21:44,739 Dave Jones: it? Sam at true fans, yeah. Sam 1187 01:21:44,740 --> 01:21:49,180 Adam Curry: at true fans of social I did just want to, just 1188 01:21:49,180 --> 01:21:52,180 to follow on the advertising thing. I mean, I just, I have 1189 01:21:52,180 --> 01:21:55,600 visions about things, and I want to point out one thing are you 1190 01:21:55,660 --> 01:21:56,860 familiar with, to be, 1191 01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:02,100 Dave Jones: yeah, the ad supported movie thing, yeah, 1192 01:22:02,100 --> 01:22:02,400 which 1193 01:22:02,460 --> 01:22:07,080 Adam Curry: I think has the largest catalog of old stuff 1194 01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:11,220 available, which, of course, is very is much cheaper for them to 1195 01:22:11,220 --> 01:22:15,360 maintain. I hear rumblings that they expect their ad revenue to 1196 01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:21,320 drop by 50% five, zero, and we've already seen this 1197 01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,140 continuous race to the bottom, because everybody now has, you 1198 01:22:24,140 --> 01:22:27,200 know, we've gone from pay for streaming, oh, gee, yeah, it's 1199 01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:30,200 too expensive for people. Oh, gee, they just sign up and then 1200 01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,540 quit after a month, after they've binge watched everything 1201 01:22:32,540 --> 01:22:35,360 they want to. Oh, gee, that's not working. Let's bring back 1202 01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:39,800 ads. You mean, like television, yeah, like television, but now 1203 01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:45,880 you have too many channels with unlimited inventory. Unlimited. 1204 01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:50,260 It's not 24 hours in a day. No, it's unlimited. So there's no 1205 01:22:50,260 --> 01:22:56,800 way to put in scarcity. So it's going the way of banner ads. I 1206 01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:58,360 think the future Go ahead. 1207 01:22:58,959 --> 01:23:02,039 Dave Jones: I think just to add Ron, one real quick thing, I 1208 01:23:02,039 --> 01:23:08,039 think, I think there's a problem mentally with the advertiser as 1209 01:23:08,039 --> 01:23:13,739 well. When you have unlimited inventory, you don't know what 1210 01:23:13,739 --> 01:23:14,699 to even buy. 1211 01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,320 Adam Curry: No, well, there's a million dashboards and companies 1212 01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:20,040 who will help you. 1213 01:23:21,300 --> 01:23:23,960 Dave Jones: Yes, yeah, that there is of it. There is, 1214 01:23:24,859 --> 01:23:31,459 Adam Curry: for me, the future of advertising based income for 1215 01:23:31,459 --> 01:23:36,019 media properties is going to go back to the brands. You're going 1216 01:23:36,019 --> 01:23:41,319 to have, the dove Podcast Network, and they will hire and 1217 01:23:41,319 --> 01:23:47,919 fire shows, and they'll do deals with those shows. You'll have 1218 01:23:47,919 --> 01:23:51,819 the kibble and bits. Podcast Network, for dog food. You'll 1219 01:23:51,819 --> 01:23:58,239 have, you know, probably the the gold, you know, the buy my gold 1220 01:23:58,239 --> 01:24:04,319 coins Podcast Network. It's an obvious route. It's obvious and 1221 01:24:04,319 --> 01:24:08,219 you'll get all the numbers you need. You get to have control. 1222 01:24:08,219 --> 01:24:11,819 You get to know what people are doing. You get to select who you 1223 01:24:11,819 --> 01:24:16,439 want to be a part of, and you can very easily see who's 1224 01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:18,899 performing or who's not performing. That seems like a 1225 01:24:18,899 --> 01:24:23,959 logical next step for advertising based media in 1226 01:24:23,959 --> 01:24:30,259 general is, you know, the brands, Paramount, Disney, etc, 1227 01:24:30,679 --> 01:24:34,339 that's long term. There is just no long term future for that. 1228 01:24:34,759 --> 01:24:37,579 Even Disney can barely make it work, and they have the, 1229 01:24:37,699 --> 01:24:40,539 arguably the most valuable catalog in the world. 1230 01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:44,140 Dave Jones: There was a let's see, 1231 01:24:45,820 --> 01:24:49,060 Adam Curry: and then have one, one other tip. Tip, yeah, go, 1232 01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:55,120 go. If you're going to start a podcast, I would say the biggest 1233 01:24:55,120 --> 01:25:01,080 hole right now is geographic location. The. Do a podcast for 1234 01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:06,060 your city. Do a podcast for your town. Do a podcast that is 1235 01:25:06,060 --> 01:25:09,180 something in a geographic location because that is no 1236 01:25:09,180 --> 01:25:13,980 longer served by television, no longer served by radio, barely 1237 01:25:13,980 --> 01:25:18,600 served by local newspapers. That's where you can win. You 1238 01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:32,660 Dave Jones: let's see this was, this was a story from July 30, 1239 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:42,760 and is saying in the point here is that the first party data. 1240 01:25:43,420 --> 01:25:49,960 The providers of streaming television that have access to 1241 01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:54,220 first party data are the ones that have generally the lowest 1242 01:25:54,220 --> 01:25:59,140 CPMs. Sure you know which you would think would be the other 1243 01:25:59,140 --> 01:26:03,900 way around. But it said uh, according to Advertising 1244 01:26:03,900 --> 01:26:06,840 Insiders, Amazon's move into the video ad market has already 1245 01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:10,860 forced rivals to lower their rates. One rival executive 1246 01:26:10,860 --> 01:26:15,000 mentioned Amazon's vast supply of inventory has pressured 1247 01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:18,480 prices lower. He said they knew what they were doing in terms of 1248 01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:21,860 flipping everybody over into their tier. Amazon converted 1249 01:26:21,860 --> 01:26:25,160 more than 200 million global subscribers to the advertising 1250 01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:28,220 tier, unless they opted out by paying for the premium ad free 1251 01:26:28,220 --> 01:26:30,980 service. This means the platform has one of the most massive 1252 01:26:30,980 --> 01:26:33,620 audiences to attract advertisers. Netflix, on the 1253 01:26:33,620 --> 01:26:39,380 other hand, has about 40 million on its ad tier. And so like they 1254 01:26:39,500 --> 01:26:46,060 it goes on to talk about how the CPMs are basically lowest 1255 01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:51,160 amongst those, amongst those like Amazon and Netflix, which 1256 01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:56,260 have the greatest access to the to the actual playing and 1257 01:26:56,260 --> 01:26:58,960 streaming data. You know, they're not depending on third 1258 01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:05,100 parties. And so this is this. This is exactly opposite of what 1259 01:27:05,100 --> 01:27:09,480 you would think it would be. Yeah. It says Yeah. The chief 1260 01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:12,900 executive, Andy Jassy, believes Prime Video can be a large and 1261 01:27:12,900 --> 01:27:15,480 profitable business on its own. So as the streaming wars 1262 01:27:15,480 --> 01:27:18,840 progress, Amazon's move into move to convert its entire Prime 1263 01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,500 Video subscriber base to a new ad supported version will be 1264 01:27:21,500 --> 01:27:24,500 enough to increase market share in the ad space, driving down 1265 01:27:24,500 --> 01:27:28,100 rage, which in turn crushes competition. So there is 1266 01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,860 basically, they're just, they're like, it's race to the bottom, 1267 01:27:30,860 --> 01:27:33,980 yes. And the way you handle that is by going as broad, as fast as 1268 01:27:33,980 --> 01:27:36,560 possible. You just have to kill everybody, because the only way 1269 01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:39,920 you're going to make money is by being the only player left. 1270 01:27:40,100 --> 01:27:40,600 Yeah. 1271 01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:48,040 Adam Curry: Yep. But okay, see, y'all a Podcast Movement, 1272 01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:57,100 Dave Jones: yeah, that's, that's, that's where, you know, 1273 01:27:57,100 --> 01:28:01,140 that's, that's the thing, you know, the this, the stick, the 1274 01:28:01,140 --> 01:28:04,380 stick carrot thing is, I think everybody with sticks is 1275 01:28:04,380 --> 01:28:06,840 probably a Podcast Movement. The people who are not there 1276 01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:11,220 probably don't have a very big stick. No, no, that you want to 1277 01:28:11,220 --> 01:28:12,360 talk about licenses real 1278 01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:15,360 Adam Curry: quick. Yeah, yeah, I saw that. You. You got that 1279 01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,120 fixed, added in the namespace, I believe. 1280 01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:22,999 Dave Jones: So. I think I'm almost done, but I need some I 1281 01:28:22,999 --> 01:28:25,279 need some help. I need people to look at this thing. 1282 01:28:26,060 --> 01:28:29,540 Adam Curry: This is the value for value license, yes, remote 1283 01:28:29,540 --> 01:28:30,860 item. Well, 1284 01:28:30,859 --> 01:28:33,439 Dave Jones: it's the whole shebang, okay, it's all the 1285 01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:37,639 license restructuring. So the we had the license tag, but it was 1286 01:28:37,639 --> 01:28:41,499 just like a free for all, with a whole humongous, like, 1000 1287 01:28:41,499 --> 01:28:45,159 license list that was main, this open source list that was 1288 01:28:45,159 --> 01:28:49,119 maintained. So James it said, you know, he had complained 1289 01:28:49,119 --> 01:28:51,699 about that bitterly a couple of times, saying that, you know, 1290 01:28:51,699 --> 01:28:54,519 it's just too much. I mean, there's licenses that have 1291 01:28:54,519 --> 01:28:57,159 nothing to do with podcasting anywhere in them that are in 1292 01:28:57,159 --> 01:29:03,359 that huge spdx list. And he was right. So what we, what I've, 1293 01:29:03,419 --> 01:29:06,239 what I've done is I've paired the list down, so there's now 1294 01:29:06,839 --> 01:29:13,019 the the original namespace, excuse me, the namespace XML and 1295 01:29:13,019 --> 01:29:20,159 s document is it now links to a licensed sub folder in the repo 1296 01:29:20,159 --> 01:29:24,019 with four files in it. Okay? One is just the overview, the 1297 01:29:24,019 --> 01:29:27,259 podcast license specification that just describes how the tag 1298 01:29:27,259 --> 01:29:32,119 works. The next file is a license, licenses, dot JSON 1299 01:29:32,119 --> 01:29:38,779 file. This is meant to be ingested by host by platforms, 1300 01:29:39,919 --> 01:29:44,319 so any, any hosting platform, should be able to ingest this 1301 01:29:44,319 --> 01:29:47,319 license and show it in like a drop down, where you can pick 1302 01:29:47,319 --> 01:29:48,579 what license you Oh, yeah, I 1303 01:29:48,580 --> 01:29:50,800 Adam Curry: see it. I see it. All rights reserve, Creative 1304 01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:51,580 Commons, yeah, 1305 01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,060 Dave Jones: and yeah, all right reserved. Is there almost? Is 1306 01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:57,400 there almost as a null value, because if you don't do 1307 01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,840 anything, what you get is all rights reserved. That's law, 1308 01:30:00,900 --> 01:30:04,080 right? But, but is there anyway, as, just like I said, like a 1309 01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:09,600 null value as the default. And so then you have creative, yeah, 1310 01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,300 Creative Commons. And then at the bottom, now you have 1311 01:30:12,780 --> 01:30:17,580 podcast, V for V license. That's what, that's what was, what is 1312 01:30:17,580 --> 01:30:20,120 new. And I also added a couple more properties. So each one of 1313 01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:25,880 the entries in the JSON file has a few properties. It's got the 1314 01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:30,980 name, the short name, the version of the license, a short, 1315 01:30:30,980 --> 01:30:33,980 a description, which is meant to just be a brief description of 1316 01:30:34,040 --> 01:30:37,820 what the licenses purpose is, whether it'll whether this 1317 01:30:37,820 --> 01:30:40,540 license allows for commercial use. And that's a Boolean. It 1318 01:30:40,540 --> 01:30:43,120 can be either true, false or false, oh, yeah, whether, 1319 01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:46,720 whether it requires attribution, and that can be either true, 1320 01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:50,800 false or and whether it allows derivative works, and that's 1321 01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,380 either true or false. And then there's a link to the actual 1322 01:30:53,380 --> 01:30:54,400 text of the license. 1323 01:30:54,699 --> 01:30:56,799 Adam Curry: So we have, was it 512345, 1324 01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:01,680 Dave Jones: yeah, yeah. So that's, that's what's in there. 1325 01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:04,800 So this is meant to be very much ingestible and parsable 1326 01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:08,400 programmatically, so that you can give you can build a UI off 1327 01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:14,460 of this. Then you have licensed slugs, which is just a quick 1328 01:31:14,580 --> 01:31:17,520 sort, which is just the the short names for each of the 1329 01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:21,560 codes for each of these licenses, again, which is you 1330 01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:24,860 can use that to validate your XML, because that's what's going 1331 01:31:24,860 --> 01:31:32,600 to go into the license tag in the feed. And then finally, you 1332 01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:38,000 have the V for v dash four.o.md, that which is very long. It is 1333 01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:41,320 very long. This is, this is the license that Julie sent me, 1334 01:31:41,380 --> 01:31:41,740 Yeah, 1335 01:31:41,740 --> 01:31:43,840 Adam Curry: I'm good with let me just scan. Yep, looks good to 1336 01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:47,200 me. It's like a EULA, yeah, I agree with that. That's fine, 1337 01:31:47,260 --> 01:31:51,280 yeah, Agree, Agree. Click, agree, yeah, it's good. 1338 01:31:51,820 --> 01:31:56,620 Dave Jones: So here's the, here's the help I need. I need. 1339 01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:00,300 I need somebody who knows about formatting and the layout of 1340 01:32:00,300 --> 01:32:04,320 like legal documents to look at that value for value license and 1341 01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:08,520 make sure, because what she sent me was marked it said, draft all 1342 01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:13,260 over it and ready. And so, like, I need somebody to check it out 1343 01:32:13,260 --> 01:32:16,020 and make sure that it's formatted correctly, that is 1344 01:32:16,020 --> 01:32:20,300 laid out correctly, and that it doesn't have any just like crazy 1345 01:32:20,780 --> 01:32:23,060 Adam Curry: stuff. What it does have, which I always love, is 1346 01:32:23,060 --> 01:32:26,300 there's one paragraph in here, paragraph 15, limitations of 1347 01:32:26,300 --> 01:32:30,320 liability. It's all caps. That always looks official, doesn't 1348 01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:35,840 it? Oh, it's all caps. That's, that's, that's how it's supposed 1349 01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:40,700 to be, because that's, you never read all caps. You don't read 1350 01:32:40,700 --> 01:32:44,620 it. That's why they put it that's why they put it in all 1351 01:32:44,620 --> 01:32:47,020 caps, remedy, yeah, don't, don't read this, 1352 01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:49,719 Dave Jones: except for any remedies that cannot be excluded 1353 01:32:49,719 --> 01:32:52,059 or limited by law, neither party nor any affiliate will be 1354 01:32:52,059 --> 01:32:52,839 allowable under the 1355 01:32:53,620 --> 01:32:56,440 Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly, exactly the legalese that you 1356 01:32:56,440 --> 01:32:57,460 never can understand. 1357 01:32:58,540 --> 01:33:01,740 Dave Jones: So somebody needs to look at that and give me a heads 1358 01:33:01,740 --> 01:33:05,700 up on whether or not it's it's got horrible errors in it 1359 01:33:06,060 --> 01:33:10,200 because I don't even know what I'm reading. Yeah. Does the JSON 1360 01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:15,180 file work as as I've structured it? You know, the booleans and 1361 01:33:15,180 --> 01:33:19,680 all that kind of thing that, you know, somebody tell me if 1362 01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:22,160 there's if they think that that's not going to work or 1363 01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:26,300 needs to be changed. Does the list have enough coverage, like, 1364 01:33:26,300 --> 01:33:31,040 is there an there's five of the most common licenses from 1365 01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:35,600 Creative Commons in there, and from for podcast V, for V, is 1366 01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:37,880 there something I'm missing? Is there one that's obvious that I 1367 01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:41,680 didn't put in? Those are the types of things I need to know. 1368 01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:45,520 So if, if, if people want to help, check that out, give me 1369 01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:50,620 feedback, and let's make sure that this thing looks good, so 1370 01:33:50,620 --> 01:33:53,260 that by the end of this week, I can hit the formalize and go, 1371 01:33:53,260 --> 01:33:54,340 cool, cool. 1372 01:33:55,359 --> 01:33:57,819 Adam Curry: I guess the next thing we need to work on is 1373 01:33:57,879 --> 01:34:03,059 tags. Because I'm a little and I say this because I'm a little 1374 01:34:03,059 --> 01:34:07,799 confused. I thought we were going to where I thought at one 1375 01:34:07,799 --> 01:34:11,999 point we said, hey, let's do free form. Is free form now? No 1376 01:34:11,999 --> 01:34:15,659 longer in play. No, that's right. We're still doing that. 1377 01:34:15,779 --> 01:34:19,439 Okay? Because I keep getting people pointing me to a list. 1378 01:34:20,580 --> 01:34:22,940 Dave Jones: Well, see that's, that's the thing is, there's 1379 01:34:22,940 --> 01:34:26,720 going to be the list is going to be, there's going to be a seed 1380 01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:35,900 list for initially, okay, off of a, off of a taxonomy. And then I 1381 01:34:35,900 --> 01:34:40,840 think, I think, I think Sam's got that right now, there's 1382 01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:46,420 gonna be an initial list based off of a of a taxonomy. Then we, 1383 01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:49,780 like, that's then what? Then it's just a free for all after 1384 01:34:49,780 --> 01:34:54,700 that, okay? And we'll, we'll, we'll see what's being used, and 1385 01:34:54,700 --> 01:34:58,480 then update the list in the future, going forward, just to 1386 01:34:58,480 --> 01:35:02,880 give, like, a. If 1000s and 1000s of people are using a 1387 01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:05,580 particular tag, and it's not in the list, and it needs to be in 1388 01:35:05,580 --> 01:35:07,740 the list, right? Got it? So we'll just update the list. 1389 01:35:07,740 --> 01:35:11,280 Adam Curry: Okay, cool. And then hopefully a lot of that will 1390 01:35:11,280 --> 01:35:14,700 flow through to and from the activity. Pub, 1391 01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:19,320 Dave Jones: yeah, yeah, you would hope so they just become, 1392 01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:20,600 they just become hashtags. 1393 01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:23,300 Adam Curry: Nice, yeah. So, 1394 01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:28,640 Dave Jones: yeah, I think so the license thing, and then we're 1395 01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:33,920 gonna boot authorization to the to phase eight, key send 1396 01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:38,600 address, yeah, keys, so key send address, I need to finish. 1397 01:35:38,660 --> 01:35:42,580 That's mostly finished. I just need to, 1398 01:35:42,700 --> 01:35:45,580 Adam Curry: yeah, there was some confusion over on the value for 1399 01:35:45,580 --> 01:35:51,280 value telegram group. I'm sure not everybody joins the board 1400 01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:57,700 room every Friday. But yes, there is a proposal to add 1401 01:35:58,540 --> 01:36:04,500 lightning addresses as an option for sending value. And yes, it 1402 01:36:04,500 --> 01:36:09,300 will work with splits, etc. And just to remind everybody, the 1403 01:36:09,300 --> 01:36:17,280 reason behind it is so that apps who don't want to manage hubs et 1404 01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:22,520 cetera, or have their customers manage their own stuff, we'll 1405 01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:29,300 just be able to use APIs such as those from initially strike in 1406 01:36:29,300 --> 01:36:32,780 future, maybe Cash App or whatever other apps come online. 1407 01:36:32,780 --> 01:36:38,480 So it's a very simple I like strike a lot. You can still for 1408 01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:42,160 the simple reason, if it's just an API and you get your strike 1409 01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:44,740 wallet, you put dollars in there, you can send dollars. 1410 01:36:44,740 --> 01:36:50,020 Yeah, I still think, yeah, we should. For newbies, it's better 1411 01:36:50,020 --> 01:36:52,480 to be using dollars. I mean, we don't have to explain the whole 1412 01:36:52,480 --> 01:36:59,560 Bitcoin thing. We don't have to. And moving forward, that seems 1413 01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:03,060 to be and we'll make room there, of course, for bolt 12 when it 1414 01:37:03,060 --> 01:37:06,600 comes along. So these are all just all options, and everything 1415 01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:08,220 else will be backwards compatible. 1416 01:37:09,780 --> 01:37:12,780 Dave Jones: And you know, Eric PP said is key send address 1417 01:37:12,780 --> 01:37:16,020 separate from the wallet stuff Huskers working on Yes, yes, it 1418 01:37:16,020 --> 01:37:22,100 is. So the key send address is a spec change in the value block. 1419 01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:28,040 And then what Oscar is working on is a demo, a demo, a demo web 1420 01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:33,020 app of how OAuth, OAuth integration from a podcast app 1421 01:37:33,020 --> 01:37:35,840 to your strike wallet would work. And we didn't hear 1422 01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:41,020 Adam Curry: back from the what's the outfit name, Zebedee. We 1423 01:37:41,020 --> 01:37:43,660 didn't hear back from those guys. Never I 1424 01:37:43,660 --> 01:37:47,080 Dave Jones: haven't heard from them. The lady I talked to it in 1425 01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:49,360 Nashville, she said that she listens to the show, so I was 1426 01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:51,820 hoping she would contact me, because I never got an email 1427 01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:55,120 from her. But holding out, get my got my fingers. Fingers 1428 01:37:55,120 --> 01:37:55,780 crossed, yes. 1429 01:37:56,140 --> 01:37:59,200 Adam Curry: Should we thank some people? Yeah, yeah. Let's think 1430 01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:03,840 so. As we mentioned at the top of the show, the whole index 1431 01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:06,600 project is value for value. If you get any value out of the 1432 01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:11,880 services we provide for free, then support us. That'll keep it 1433 01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:17,280 going for for a long, long time. Everything stays within the the 1434 01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:21,620 index, LLC, Adam and Dave. Take nothing out of it. What are you 1435 01:38:21,620 --> 01:38:23,120 doing? What are you throwing around there? 1436 01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:27,440 Dave Jones: No, I'm shifting in my shifting in my seat. We did 1437 01:38:27,440 --> 01:38:29,180 Adam Curry: get a couple of boosts that we want to talk 1438 01:38:29,180 --> 01:38:31,820 about that came in live. And of course, you can do that with a 1439 01:38:31,820 --> 01:38:34,400 modern podcast app in many different places. Podcast 1440 01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:38,840 apps.com Sam Sethi just boosted with 100 sets. If a podcast does 1441 01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:41,080 not have a copyright in the feed, we that would be true. 1442 01:38:41,080 --> 01:38:44,800 Fans add a default year name, and we add all rights reserved 1443 01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:48,760 if no license makes sense. So that's the default Yes. Roved 1444 01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:52,600 ducks from Martin lindisco. Hyper local podcasts have become 1445 01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:55,420 pretty popular in Scandinavia. Great suggestion. Adam, all the 1446 01:38:55,420 --> 01:39:00,960 best. There you go. Hyper local. I like it. 1776 from Martin 1447 01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:03,420 Linda's Coke, which is the freedom boost I says. I started 1448 01:39:03,420 --> 01:39:07,980 blogging in 2002 in order to spread better ideas, not to earn 1449 01:39:07,980 --> 01:39:10,320 money. But I had some advertising with blog ads, 1450 01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:13,860 pajamas, media, and my own ad banner for sponsors I knew liked 1451 01:39:13,860 --> 01:39:16,860 and trusted. My blogging got me in touch with other bloggers, 1452 01:39:16,860 --> 01:39:20,100 and I've had freelance gigs as a guest blogger for moderator, 1453 01:39:20,100 --> 01:39:24,320 etc. I'm open for new opportunities. Best premises, 1454 01:39:24,440 --> 01:39:33,800 Martin linsko, we have once told Kyle who boosted 777 for I want 1455 01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:38,000 to be your woman. And he says, getting some Christina Aguilera 1456 01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:42,040 vibes off of this one good song. Cole McCormick, say, 1457 01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:43,900 Dave Jones: Well, you were right. You were right. There 1458 01:39:43,900 --> 01:39:46,660 was, there was a lot of horn in that song. 1459 01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:49,360 Adam Curry: Horn is beautiful. 1460 01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:51,700 Unknown: Oh, my God, 1461 01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:57,580 Adam Curry: listen to that horn. Yeah, baby, it's good horn. Sam 1462 01:39:57,580 --> 01:40:00,420 also just boosted again, another 1000 SATs. Oscar. I are meeting 1463 01:40:00,420 --> 01:40:03,120 in London while everyone is in Washington to discuss working 1464 01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:07,680 together using activity. Pub, nice. The unconference, the 1465 01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:12,780 uncon That's right, unconference the then we have Cole McCormick 1466 01:40:12,780 --> 01:40:16,620 rove ducks, 2222 Wow. This song is incredible. This moment just 1467 01:40:16,620 --> 01:40:21,200 brought a burst of inspiration for a new podcast. Wow. All 1468 01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:25,820 right, Cole, whoa, let us know. Boy. Steam Berger, 777, great 1469 01:40:25,820 --> 01:40:28,760 song, great voice. Heard it on podcasting, 2.0 thank you for 1470 01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:33,740 boosting her. D's laughs. Nice song, 123, 2112, from Martin. 1471 01:40:33,740 --> 01:40:36,980 Linda Coke, how do I update the funding tag? Is it at the 1472 01:40:36,980 --> 01:40:40,660 dashboard on Captivate FM and pod home.fm, that would be good 1473 01:40:40,660 --> 01:40:43,900 to have a donation page with several options, ie PayPal, buy 1474 01:40:43,900 --> 01:40:46,900 me coffee, get Albie, lightning address, etc, for my podcast, 1475 01:40:46,900 --> 01:40:50,260 yes, I have it in sovereign feeds, and you can add multiple 1476 01:40:50,260 --> 01:40:56,620 blocks or multiple places. So I don't know about Captivate or 1477 01:40:56,620 --> 01:41:00,720 the other ones. I would hope all of them have. It seems like an 1478 01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:01,320 easy one. 1479 01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:05,160 Dave Jones: Let me do this. Let me check the Apps page. There 1480 01:41:05,159 --> 01:41:09,059 Adam Curry: you go. App page. I'll keep reading triple seven 1481 01:41:09,059 --> 01:41:11,879 from D's laughs, as long as I can pay my rent here in Toronto, 1482 01:41:11,879 --> 01:41:15,359 I'll keep boosting how beautiful brother. Thank you. Once told 1483 01:41:15,359 --> 01:41:18,059 Kyle another triple seven love how you guys always take the 1484 01:41:18,059 --> 01:41:22,039 high road. Is there any other road, really, than the high 1485 01:41:22,039 --> 01:41:26,179 road. Triple seven from D's last love the conversation, salty 1486 01:41:26,179 --> 01:41:29,599 crayon with 1111, howdy boardroom. If Oscar is 1487 01:41:29,599 --> 01:41:32,599 listening, can he bring back podcasting? 2.0 booster grams 1488 01:41:32,599 --> 01:41:36,019 from other podcasting, two apps. I remember, when doing the I am 1489 01:41:36,019 --> 01:41:38,719 Texas slim podcast, we used to be able to see booster grams 1490 01:41:38,719 --> 01:41:41,919 from other apps inside the activity feed. And it did indeed 1491 01:41:41,919 --> 01:41:45,159 show up, what app it came from, in my opinion, that should help 1492 01:41:45,159 --> 01:41:48,399 boost the signal on fountain, where, instead of fountain, only 1493 01:41:48,399 --> 01:41:50,859 inside the perimeter of booster, grams in the pipe, go 1494 01:41:50,859 --> 01:41:54,459 podcasting. I think what happened there is the, you know, 1495 01:41:54,459 --> 01:41:57,999 they changed their back end, and you have to make sure that you 1496 01:41:57,999 --> 01:42:02,999 are using the new boost bot. I think it still works. Okay, add 1497 01:42:02,999 --> 01:42:08,159 boost bot, and then it will show up in the fountain. The their 1498 01:42:08,219 --> 01:42:14,759 their feed of boosts. Chad F 1776 Thank you, Chad, you sent 1499 01:42:14,759 --> 01:42:18,359 that twice, actually. Well, there's another Martin. Linda 1500 01:42:18,359 --> 01:42:21,679 Coke, I have 2222 I have now sent booster grams and stream 1501 01:42:21,679 --> 01:42:25,099 SATs with POD verse and podcast Guru, I am now listening on the 1502 01:42:25,099 --> 01:42:29,299 podcast index site as my phone, iPhone 6s plus, had issues with 1503 01:42:29,299 --> 01:42:31,759 the Wi Fi connection. Next time I'll send a booster gram with a 1504 01:42:31,759 --> 01:42:34,939 progressive web application. True fans. Martin Luther Coke, 1505 01:42:34,939 --> 01:42:38,299 supporter of the podcasting 2.0 initiative. You need a badge 1506 01:42:38,299 --> 01:42:39,019 that says that. 1507 01:42:39,980 --> 01:42:41,440 Dave Jones: Love it. 2100 1508 01:42:42,099 --> 01:42:43,959 Adam Curry: from Macintosh. This week, I was listening to a 1509 01:42:43,959 --> 01:42:46,899 podcast that I only listened to off and on. It had five minutes 1510 01:42:46,899 --> 01:42:50,859 and 50 seconds of ads to begin the show. It was maddening. A 1511 01:42:50,859 --> 01:42:54,999 simple 32nd ask for V. For V is so much more a carrot than that 1512 01:42:54,999 --> 01:43:02,339 awful stick. Oh, here's Sam 1000 SATs Rob, I'm presuming means 1513 01:43:02,339 --> 01:43:07,439 Rob Walsh was invited, and he walked out of the meeting and 1514 01:43:07,439 --> 01:43:10,199 the podcast Standards Project our meeting in Washington to 1515 01:43:10,199 --> 01:43:12,779 decide if they want to put real money behind promoting 1516 01:43:12,779 --> 01:43:16,739 podcasting 2.0 or not. I can't do my evangelist role with no 1517 01:43:16,739 --> 01:43:20,779 marketing budget. Well, there you go. Thanks for the update. I 1518 01:43:20,839 --> 01:43:26,179 wonder why Rob walked out of the meeting. It's, it's worth going 1519 01:43:26,179 --> 01:43:30,859 up and say, Hey, man, what's up? What's up? Can we invite him on 1520 01:43:30,859 --> 01:43:32,659 the show? Is that a weird thing, Dave? 1521 01:43:34,220 --> 01:43:36,740 Dave Jones: I mean, I'm fine with it. Yeah. So we had, we've, 1522 01:43:36,740 --> 01:43:39,740 we've had people that disagree with us on the show before. We 1523 01:43:39,740 --> 01:43:41,800 had brown Barletta on the show, yeah, and 1524 01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:42,580 Adam Curry: they're dead. Now, 1525 01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:45,700 Dave Jones: Brian's not dead. Oh, I'm sorry. 1526 01:43:50,260 --> 01:43:51,400 Adam Curry: Just kidding, Brian. 1527 01:43:52,179 --> 01:43:54,939 Dave Jones: Listen, don't think he is. No, 1528 01:43:54,939 --> 01:43:57,939 Adam Curry: I hope not. I hope not. 2100 from Macintosh had 1529 01:43:57,939 --> 01:44:00,599 listened to the Libsyn promo podcast earlier this week. Let 1530 01:44:00,599 --> 01:44:06,719 me put the N, a set. Let me put pull the NA saying from Bitcoin. 1531 01:44:07,139 --> 01:44:10,679 What that is podcasting 2.0 doesn't lib send Libsyn will 1532 01:44:10,679 --> 01:44:14,279 need podcasting 2.0 at some point. Don't sweat it. We really 1533 01:44:14,279 --> 01:44:17,279 don't need Libsyn. And one day they will come around, or they 1534 01:44:17,279 --> 01:44:21,739 will die off, go podcasting. I don't know. Maybe it's, I don't 1535 01:44:21,739 --> 01:44:28,399 think it's a do or die thing. Don't 2500 from Matt podcasts, 1536 01:44:28,399 --> 01:44:31,639 he says, and he's from truth boosting from true fans. Yep, I 1537 01:44:31,639 --> 01:44:34,999 find it funny that no credit is paid to podcasting 2.0 by a 1538 01:44:34,999 --> 01:44:39,199 group of insiders that bend the knee to closed source solutions 1539 01:44:39,199 --> 01:44:42,519 while Apple showed them. They are our biggest ally in adopting 1540 01:44:42,519 --> 01:44:46,299 a podcasting 2.0 standard by transcripts tag. Will any of 1541 01:44:46,299 --> 01:44:53,139 them at least say thanks? Well, I'm okay. I don't need, I don't 1542 01:44:53,139 --> 01:44:55,839 need to hear thanks. I'm I'm good. I've said 1543 01:44:55,840 --> 01:45:00,720 Dave Jones: it before the the podcast industry. What? But 1544 01:45:00,900 --> 01:45:05,280 podcasting was born in open source, but then quickly it just 1545 01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:10,680 went, it became closed source, and it lived in that world for, 1546 01:45:10,860 --> 01:45:14,460 you know, a decade, 17 years. Oh, yeah, longer even Yes, in 1547 01:45:14,460 --> 01:45:20,180 law, yeah, a long time. And then in it, when we when we came 1548 01:45:20,180 --> 01:45:25,220 along. It took a couple of years for people to in the podcasting 1549 01:45:25,220 --> 01:45:29,600 world to become comfortable with the with the idea of releasing 1550 01:45:29,900 --> 01:45:33,680 their ideas and their code in public. I just don't think, I 1551 01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:37,820 think it was just something that had not it's an ethos, it's a 1552 01:45:37,820 --> 01:45:41,140 it's an attitude, and I just don't think that was part of the 1553 01:45:41,140 --> 01:45:44,860 conversation, no, and so now, but now, now it's common. I 1554 01:45:44,860 --> 01:45:49,360 mean, now, I mean, I think I really, if there's anything we 1555 01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:52,120 if there's anything I can hang our hat on that, I think that we 1556 01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:56,680 had an impact on it, more than just any sort of like spec or 1557 01:45:56,680 --> 01:46:00,600 features. I think it's changing the culture and the conversation 1558 01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:03,900 around open source within podcasting. Yes, I really think 1559 01:46:03,900 --> 01:46:07,140 that that. I think we did have an effect on that, and I think 1560 01:46:07,140 --> 01:46:08,760 podcasting is better for it. 1561 01:46:09,060 --> 01:46:11,760 Adam Curry: I hope so. I hope so. 1562 01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:15,060 Dave Jones: Because, I mean, I'm looking at, you know this, I'm 1563 01:46:15,060 --> 01:46:18,000 looking at the Apps page, by the way, Captivate does support the 1564 01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:22,400 funding tag. I'm looking at the Apps page, podcast 1565 01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:27,620 index.org/apps, just look at all. I mean, it is ridiculous. 1566 01:46:27,620 --> 01:46:31,940 How many? How many true fans? Cast garden, blueberry, power 1567 01:46:31,940 --> 01:46:35,300 press pod home, sovereign feeds, pod verse, podcast guru, RSS, 1568 01:46:35,300 --> 01:46:38,540 blue, rss.com, fountain, cast a pod. Captivate, once told. 1569 01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:42,760 Podcast mirror, peer to pod friend, just cast dino.fm, ln 1570 01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:46,600 beats, podcast addict, curio caster, split kit, transistor 1571 01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:50,620 dystopia, vodio music side project, Buzz, sprout podcast, 1572 01:46:50,860 --> 01:46:54,280 see podcast chapters, my web blog, pod page, podcast, AI MP, 1573 01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:57,820 dot money, cast, O Matic, fireside prodigy, seriously 1574 01:46:57,820 --> 01:47:00,960 simple podcasting, metacast, Caproni, pod station, breeze, 1575 01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:04,560 anytime. Podcast, player, pod, LP, red circle. Podcast page.io, 1576 01:47:05,160 --> 01:47:09,720 Alito, pine pods, castos. Pod, love three, speak IPFS, 1577 01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:14,880 podcasting, Sphinx, antenna. Pod Ivy, dot, FMT, tsec, dob, hub, 1578 01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:18,960 hop hopper. Pod, news, boost, CLI, focus. Podcast, eye 1579 01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:22,220 catcher, pocket, cast Odyssey, Lipson has locked in. 1580 01:47:22,220 --> 01:47:26,240 Transcript, text, hyper catcher. Pod, news, directory. Pod, 1581 01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:29,360 serve, Plink. Pod, browser, value for value. I mean, it just 1582 01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:33,380 keeps going and going and going. There's a million P I mean, 1583 01:47:33,620 --> 01:47:38,900 this, it's not, this is not just a tiny, this is not just a tiny 1584 01:47:38,900 --> 01:47:42,700 thing anymore. I mean, you, really have to, I think this is 1585 01:47:42,700 --> 01:47:46,000 what Todd was saying on new media show this week, is you 1586 01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:48,280 sort of have to decide what you're going to do at this 1587 01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:48,940 point. Yeah, 1588 01:47:52,060 --> 01:47:55,000 Adam Curry: it's a lot of fun in this sandbox. And we share our 1589 01:47:55,060 --> 01:47:58,120 toys. You can use my shovel, my 1590 01:47:59,859 --> 01:48:00,659 Dave Jones: bucket, talk a truck 1591 01:48:00,899 --> 01:48:03,959 Adam Curry: 8888 from once told Kyle riding the lightning as you 1592 01:48:03,959 --> 01:48:07,439 guys fist your nuts and teach American history. I'm five 1593 01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:11,219 episodes in on my V for V music podcast flow. Nar, with the G, 1594 01:48:11,219 --> 01:48:14,819 F, l, O, W, g, n, a, r, and having fun making mountain 1595 01:48:14,819 --> 01:48:17,939 biking sound tracks. Meanwhile, have a great weekend. Get 1596 01:48:17,939 --> 01:48:21,019 yourselves out into the back country and F that sinking ship 1597 01:48:21,019 --> 01:48:27,919 called the SS libs in now, now, now, now, now, settle down. Now, 1598 01:48:27,919 --> 01:48:31,639 now, now, go podcasting and another Martin Linda's coke. 1599 01:48:31,639 --> 01:48:34,939 Dave, cheers, enjoy your Sam Adams beer. Great sandwich 1600 01:48:34,939 --> 01:48:38,299 illustration, Adam, have you visited Berkeley plantation 1601 01:48:38,299 --> 01:48:40,599 history of the first Thanksgiving in Virginia? No, I 1602 01:48:40,599 --> 01:48:44,139 haven't it's on the list now, though, Liberty boost 1776 1603 01:48:44,859 --> 01:48:48,279 Satoshi is best premises Martin Linda's covid podcast was since 1604 01:48:48,279 --> 01:48:55,179 2006 1776 from Chad. F7, 777, from chat F, let's lift those 1605 01:48:55,179 --> 01:48:59,679 spirits. I was, I played a real bummer song in the pre, the pre 1606 01:48:59,739 --> 01:49:04,739 in the pre show, yeah. The suicides, yeah. 11,111 from 1607 01:49:04,739 --> 01:49:07,619 Martin Linda Coke, this time from pod verse. Podcasting, 2.0 1608 01:49:08,099 --> 01:49:11,759 sticks. I like carrots. Listen to episode 247, of the feed 1609 01:49:11,759 --> 01:49:15,119 podcast by Elsie and Rob. I'm glad that they read Brian's 1610 01:49:15,119 --> 01:49:18,239 email. Go podcasting, Martin Linda Coke, using pod verse. And 1611 01:49:18,359 --> 01:49:22,279 thank you to Dr Scott for the 4567, the boosted MC boost test, 1612 01:49:22,519 --> 01:49:25,039 making sure it all worked and it did indeed. And I've hit the 1613 01:49:25,039 --> 01:49:27,379 delimiter, Dave, who do you have on your list? 1614 01:49:28,700 --> 01:49:34,160 Dave Jones: See, we've got, we already read the read the one 1615 01:49:34,160 --> 01:49:43,360 offs. So we've got, let me flip here. Got some booster grams got 1616 01:49:43,420 --> 01:49:47,680 gene B in 2222 through cast O Matic. He says, pure curiosity. 1617 01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:51,940 Dave, how come you shuttled a clip to Adam instead of playing 1618 01:49:51,940 --> 01:49:53,560 it yourself through the rodecaster? 1619 01:49:55,660 --> 01:49:57,280 Adam Curry: Well, that's a good question. 1620 01:49:57,820 --> 01:50:03,420 Dave Jones: Well, yeah, but here's. The issue Linux. I'm on 1621 01:50:03,420 --> 01:50:06,960 Ubuntu as my desktop for my podcast rig, and Linux does not 1622 01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:11,760 recognize both inputs from the rodecaster. 1623 01:50:11,820 --> 01:50:13,920 Adam Curry: If I can say something about that for a 1624 01:50:13,920 --> 01:50:17,520 moment, but I had a so Dvorak sent me a link to a YouTube 1625 01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:20,960 video, and he says, Did you know this was going on? Say, Yeah, 1626 01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:28,040 since 2015 then what it was is Apple is deprecating their 1627 01:50:29,180 --> 01:50:32,060 lightning, I think it's called lightning. Was that their cable? 1628 01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:35,300 Their lightning cable? Yeah. So they're deprecating that 1629 01:50:35,300 --> 01:50:39,320 support, which you're they're taking the code out of their 1630 01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:44,140 drivers in the new in their newest operating system. And 1631 01:50:44,140 --> 01:50:47,920 what it's done is it's really screwing up a lot of studio 1632 01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:52,660 people who have bought gear based upon lightning support, 1633 01:50:52,660 --> 01:50:56,380 which I guess is supposed to work with Thunderbolt. But Apple 1634 01:50:56,380 --> 01:51:00,960 is just saying, Nope, no more software, all kinds of things 1635 01:51:01,440 --> 01:51:05,640 and, and I said, Well, you know, I switched from, I was a Mac guy 1636 01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:10,200 since my apple too, you know, so I've been an Apple guy for all 1637 01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:13,920 my life. And then they started screwing around with USB, and 1638 01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:16,620 the USB wasn't working, right? And I saw the writing on the 1639 01:51:16,620 --> 01:51:19,320 wall. I said, they don't really care. That was the same time 1640 01:51:19,320 --> 01:51:24,860 they came out with Final Cut Pro X, which was a nightmare, coming 1641 01:51:24,860 --> 01:51:28,760 from seven to nine. They completely changed the 1642 01:51:28,760 --> 01:51:31,940 interface, and it made it just like, What have you done here? 1643 01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:38,060 So you either had to work with deprecated OSS, try and go ahead 1644 01:51:38,060 --> 01:51:42,160 and try and buy a new Mac and deprecate it down to older OS. 1645 01:51:42,160 --> 01:51:46,120 It's lots of fun. Some people are trying to hack the drivers. 1646 01:51:46,540 --> 01:51:51,580 And I really, I hate to say it, but this is, this is what we do 1647 01:51:51,580 --> 01:51:56,020 not have drivers for high end gear on Linux, and it's because 1648 01:51:56,020 --> 01:51:59,980 there's collusion of planned obsolescence between companies 1649 01:51:59,980 --> 01:52:04,200 like Apple and the software and hardware companies, they want 1650 01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:09,360 people to continuously upgrade, and it's built in obsolescence, 1651 01:52:09,720 --> 01:52:13,200 and they just will not. If they made any company that makes 1652 01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:17,880 drivers available for Linux, I suggest they will win, because, 1653 01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:21,740 man, I would be on linux in a heartbeat like, oh, okay, buy 1654 01:52:21,740 --> 01:52:25,580 Windows, but they won't do it because it's built into their 1655 01:52:25,580 --> 01:52:29,120 business model at this point. And so we basically all get 1656 01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:32,960 screwed, and I just don't think we're ever gonna see Linux 1657 01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:40,240 drivers for modern devices ever. They just won't do it. They're 1658 01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:44,200 too closely tied in to all these other companies. And 1659 01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:47,740 Dave Jones: there's there. I mean, it's, it does not work. I 1660 01:52:47,740 --> 01:52:52,300 mean, I've tried. I've gone down the rabbit hole of audio forums 1661 01:52:52,300 --> 01:52:54,520 where people are trying to, you know, they're like, Okay, get in 1662 01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:59,260 here and edit this config file. And it's like, oh, you need to 1663 01:52:59,260 --> 01:53:02,520 switch from, you need to switch to, you know, to also yes or 1664 01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:03,000 whatever. 1665 01:53:03,540 --> 01:53:07,620 Adam Curry: Okay, it's Dave at podcast index.org, email him 1666 01:53:07,620 --> 01:53:10,800 with all your solutions, because I've been down this hole many 1667 01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:14,580 times, and people keep emailing me. I have no problem. You have 1668 01:53:14,580 --> 01:53:17,760 no idea what you're talking about. It doesn't, it doesn't 1669 01:53:17,760 --> 01:53:18,840 work. It 1670 01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:20,720 Dave Jones: doesn't work. It doesn't, it does not work. I've 1671 01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:24,560 tried it all. I spent hours on this thing, and the only reason 1672 01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:29,600 I don't switch it to Windows on this rig is because I just, is 1673 01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:33,080 because it's running my lightning node. Yeah, and I love 1674 01:53:33,320 --> 01:53:37,340 the Ubuntu interface. I love the desktop so, you know, and I'm 1675 01:53:37,340 --> 01:53:40,300 comfortable in Linux, so I just, I don't know, I'm, I'm willing 1676 01:53:40,300 --> 01:53:44,260 to I'm willing to offload my work to Adam to keep my own 1677 01:53:44,260 --> 01:53:45,340 comfort, and Adam 1678 01:53:45,340 --> 01:53:51,520 Adam Curry: is willing to take on your load. I'm 15. I can't 1679 01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:52,180 help it. 1680 01:53:54,040 --> 01:53:58,180 Dave Jones: More. Horn Chiron, for the mere mortals. Podcast, 1681 01:53:58,180 --> 01:54:02,820 2222 through fountain says this is why I advocate for multiple 1682 01:54:02,820 --> 01:54:06,120 nodes for redundancy. I can get my boost data from fountain, 1683 01:54:06,540 --> 01:54:10,440 Satoshis, dot stream and Alby, no boosts will be lost on my 1684 01:54:10,440 --> 01:54:10,920 watch. 1685 01:54:12,420 --> 01:54:13,320 Adam Curry: The Minute Man, 1686 01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:16,500 Dave Jones: call me straight. Oh, wait, wait, let me make 1687 01:54:16,500 --> 01:54:19,260 sure. When do we? Do we miss the 1688 01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:22,880 Adam Curry: that was the delimiter. Oh, did Sir, did 1689 01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:26,180 Dave Jones: you get sir, Bill's 10,000 SATs, boosting that sweet 1690 01:54:26,180 --> 01:54:26,780 sequel? Talk, 1691 01:54:26,780 --> 01:54:27,560 Adam Curry: I did not. 1692 01:54:28,220 --> 01:54:30,620 Dave Jones: Well sir, Bill boosted 10,000 SATs and said, 1693 01:54:30,620 --> 01:54:32,000 boosting that sweet sequel. Talk, 1694 01:54:32,840 --> 01:54:33,380 Adam Curry: nice. 1695 01:54:35,420 --> 01:54:40,400 Dave Jones: They said, Gene bean, 2222 he says, I agree with 1696 01:54:40,400 --> 01:54:43,480 on the UID two stuff, but thought it would be worth 1697 01:54:43,480 --> 01:54:45,460 mentioning that there is actually quite a bit of 1698 01:54:45,460 --> 01:54:48,460 attribution in TV ads, like the visa wonder in the Olympics, 1699 01:54:48,460 --> 01:54:52,660 thanks to smart TVs and set top boxes. In many cases, you and 1700 01:54:52,660 --> 01:54:54,820 your neighbor will get a different ad because of this 1701 01:54:54,820 --> 01:54:56,140 stuff. It's seriously creepy. 1702 01:54:56,200 --> 01:54:59,200 Adam Curry: Oh, you have no idea. I mean, when you have 1703 01:54:59,200 --> 01:55:04,140 someone visit. In your home, if they, if they connect to your to 1704 01:55:04,140 --> 01:55:08,040 your Wi Fi network, it's great, because then all of the things 1705 01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:11,520 that you're doing on YouTube and Facebook all connect all of a 1706 01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:14,400 sudden, if you're not friends with that person, they'll pop up 1707 01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:19,020 as a friend potential. Even proximity between people always 1708 01:55:19,020 --> 01:55:22,460 say, well, they're listening to my phone. No, no. You were 1709 01:55:22,460 --> 01:55:26,300 talking to your girlfriend about handbags, and she's been looking 1710 01:55:26,300 --> 01:55:29,120 at handbags. And then your phones got close together. And 1711 01:55:29,120 --> 01:55:33,560 then there are advertising companies that you can go to, 1712 01:55:33,680 --> 01:55:36,860 and they'll give you this full spectrum, and it will determine 1713 01:55:36,860 --> 01:55:40,600 what ads you're seeing on television. Roku is amazing at 1714 01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:46,720 this. I mean, then go ahead and put a network sniffer on your 1715 01:55:46,720 --> 01:55:51,760 Roku and pick up the remote. The minute you pick up the remote, 1716 01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:55,900 it's sending off all kinds of data somewhere. We got a love 1717 01:55:55,900 --> 01:55:59,980 one, yeah, it's right. We got some. That's it's like political 1718 01:55:59,980 --> 01:56:03,360 ads. I mean, the biggest mistake you can make of text messages 1719 01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:08,220 that are political is saying stop, because the minute you say 1720 01:56:08,220 --> 01:56:11,820 stop, you get five more messages from different phone numbers. 1721 01:56:11,880 --> 01:56:15,420 It's the worst. Don't ever click on one of those links, either. 1722 01:56:15,420 --> 01:56:16,260 That's horrible. 1723 01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:19,500 Dave Jones: And that's like, don't ever click the unsubscribe 1724 01:56:19,500 --> 01:56:24,080 link on the bottom of a spam mail Exactly, yeah, just because 1725 01:56:24,080 --> 01:56:26,780 they just use that to determine whether you actually have a live 1726 01:56:26,780 --> 01:56:27,500 account. If you're 1727 01:56:27,500 --> 01:56:29,120 Adam Curry: alive, yeah, if you're a human, oh, well, I 1728 01:56:29,120 --> 01:56:31,580 didn't want this one. I'll send them that one. Yeah, it's the 1729 01:56:31,580 --> 01:56:35,060 worst. Yes, yes, that's your attribution. It's everywhere. 1730 01:56:35,300 --> 01:56:39,440 And now your car, yeah, your car will, your car is sending it 1731 01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:42,580 forward, I think, is known now that it's sending off your 1732 01:56:42,580 --> 01:56:45,760 driving habits so that winds up somewhere and your insurance 1733 01:56:45,760 --> 01:56:50,440 rates go up. Not my Ford, I know I'm very, very jealous of your 1734 01:56:50,440 --> 01:56:53,860 Ford. Your Ford is great, not great on the air conditioning or 1735 01:56:53,860 --> 01:56:56,500 the sound system, but otherwise not private, 1736 01:56:58,780 --> 01:57:01,980 Dave Jones: very private as I sweat my balls off into Alabama 1737 01:57:01,980 --> 01:57:02,160 heat 1738 01:57:02,219 --> 01:57:03,299 Adam Curry: with your eight track. 1739 01:57:04,979 --> 01:57:08,939 Dave Jones: There is no radio at all. Uncut. Who uncut? Uncut, 1740 01:57:08,939 --> 01:57:14,699 baby, Sir Brian of London, 11, 948, to cast O Matic. He says, 1741 01:57:15,479 --> 01:57:18,059 You don't waste no time at all. Don't hear the bell, but you 1742 01:57:18,059 --> 01:57:21,139 answer the call. It comes to you as to us all, yeah, we're just 1743 01:57:21,139 --> 01:57:23,839 waiting for the hammer to fall. Yeah, yo. He 1744 01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:27,500 Adam Curry: made a rhyme or two. Very nice, cool cat that Brian 1745 01:57:27,500 --> 01:57:28,100 of London 1746 01:57:29,300 --> 01:57:32,180 Dave Jones: and the commissary ball. Your delimiter? 26,000 SAS 1747 01:57:32,180 --> 01:57:36,080 through fountain. He says, howdy, Dave and Adam. I'd like 1748 01:57:36,080 --> 01:57:39,980 to recommend another great podcast about podcasting, the 1749 01:57:39,980 --> 01:57:45,400 pod master. Use no space between pod and master to find in apps 1750 01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:48,460 or take from URL, www.podmastery.co, 1751 01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:55,060 parentheses.co. Not.com. Close parentheses. 1752 01:57:55,660 --> 01:57:56,140 Unknown: Quote, 1753 01:57:56,680 --> 01:57:59,980 Dave Jones: I'm the pod master here to help you with podcasting 1754 01:57:59,980 --> 01:58:03,060 growth, advice and insights, whether you're a brand or an 1755 01:58:03,060 --> 01:58:06,420 individual who's looking to grow your podcast and attain pod 1756 01:58:06,420 --> 01:58:10,500 mastery. My name is Neil veglio, and I've been in the podcasting 1757 01:58:10,500 --> 01:58:14,760 game since 2001 in quote, yo, CSB, 2001 1758 01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:19,980 Adam Curry: Oh, okay, that's interesting. 1759 01:58:21,899 --> 01:58:22,999 Dave Jones: That's that we 1760 01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:24,680 Adam Curry: didn't have the podcasting. 1761 01:58:26,060 --> 01:58:29,000 Dave Jones: It's well that was in the room with you and day 1762 01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:29,720 one. Well, the 1763 01:58:29,720 --> 01:58:33,380 Adam Curry: enclosure existed, that's for sure. Did that? 1764 01:58:33,439 --> 01:58:35,899 Dave Jones: When did the enclosure comes that 2001 2000 1765 01:58:37,220 --> 01:58:39,860 Adam Curry: 2000 Yeah, became an early adopter. He jumped on 1766 01:58:39,860 --> 01:58:43,840 board. He did. He did. All right, nice, sweet. Any 1767 01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:44,440 monthlies? 1768 01:58:44,439 --> 01:58:47,859 Dave Jones: We got some monthlies we got, by the way, Dr 1769 01:58:47,859 --> 01:58:52,959 Scott, thank you brother. Dr, sent me personally to my strike 1770 01:58:52,959 --> 01:58:56,919 account, 82,023 SATs. And he says, wow for your audiobook 1771 01:58:56,919 --> 01:58:58,479 project. Oh, 1772 01:58:58,480 --> 01:59:00,420 Adam Curry: how sweet. Yes, thank 1773 01:59:00,420 --> 01:59:03,360 Dave Jones: you. That's what? 100 bucks. That's beautiful. Is 1774 01:59:03,360 --> 01:59:04,680 that $100 84,000 1775 01:59:05,460 --> 01:59:10,140 Adam Curry: 82,000 that's a lot of SATs, brother, oh, it's 1776 01:59:10,140 --> 01:59:12,960 Dave Jones: a lot of SATs. Yes, yeah, that's great. Thank you. 1777 01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:15,600 Dread that shifting bucks. I 1778 01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:18,360 Adam Curry: think it's 50 bucks. 50 bucks. Yeah, nice 1779 01:59:18,839 --> 01:59:20,719 Dave Jones: letter. Cover my hosting calls because I was 1780 01:59:20,719 --> 01:59:28,879 saying how didn't thank you. Terry Keller, $5 Chris Cowan, $5 1781 01:59:29,299 --> 01:59:33,019 silicon florist, $10 Derek J visker, the best name in 1782 01:59:33,019 --> 01:59:39,379 podcasting. $21 Damon, Casa Jack, $15 Paul Saltzman, Hey, 1783 01:59:39,379 --> 01:59:46,359 Paul. $22.22 yarn. Rosenstein, $1 Jeremy gerds, $5 Michael 1784 01:59:46,359 --> 01:59:50,559 Hall, $5.50 New Media Productions, that's Todd and 1785 01:59:50,559 --> 01:59:55,239 Rob, $30 Thank you Rob and Timothy voice, $10 and that's 1786 01:59:55,239 --> 01:59:55,599 our group. 1787 01:59:55,780 --> 01:59:58,000 Adam Curry: Thank you all so much for supporting us. It's 1788 01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:01,260 highly appreciated you're supporting. Really the podcast. 1789 02:00:01,260 --> 02:00:06,960 Index.org, podcast index, dot social. And of course, you are 1790 02:00:07,140 --> 02:00:10,620 always motivating us to talk more about podcasting. On this 1791 02:00:10,620 --> 02:00:13,800 weekly podcast, everything stays on the note. If you need a 1792 02:00:13,800 --> 02:00:16,620 channel, hit me up. Happy to open one for you. Everything 1793 02:00:16,620 --> 02:00:19,320 stays in the bank account, which we use to keep this thing going 1794 02:00:19,320 --> 02:00:22,820 for as long as we can if it's of any value to you, send some 1795 02:00:22,820 --> 02:00:25,340 value back time, talent, treasure. We accept it all. 1796 02:00:25,700 --> 02:00:29,780 Podcast index.org, use a modern podcast app to boost us. We love 1797 02:00:29,780 --> 02:00:33,560 that. The more you boost, the higher we are in those fountain 1798 02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:37,700 Top 10 charts, which I like because it's another marketing 1799 02:00:37,700 --> 02:00:40,900 opportunity. People see that like, Hey, look at those guys. I 1800 02:00:40,900 --> 02:00:45,700 wonder what that podcast is. And of course, there's a big red 1801 02:00:45,700 --> 02:00:49,000 donate button there, which takes you right to our PayPal. Or in 1802 02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:52,300 the modern podcast app, look for that little dollar sign or some 1803 02:00:52,300 --> 02:00:56,800 other value funding Tag button. It's different on every single 1804 02:00:56,800 --> 02:01:00,480 one of them. We need a universal button for that. I think 1805 02:01:00,599 --> 02:01:03,779 Dave Jones: we need a t shirt in the in the no agenda shop. This 1806 02:01:03,779 --> 02:01:06,899 is podcasting 2.0 all carrot, no stick. 1807 02:01:06,959 --> 02:01:12,779 Adam Curry: Yeah, now you're talking, you can hit that. It'll 1808 02:01:12,779 --> 02:01:14,939 take you right to the PayPal page as well. And thank you all 1809 02:01:14,939 --> 02:01:17,819 so much. Thank you boardroom. Good to see you here. Hello, 1810 02:01:17,819 --> 02:01:24,439 sir. TJ, the raffle just just entered. So yes, Sup, bro. And 1811 02:01:24,439 --> 02:01:27,679 thank you for everybody who has been a part of this today and a 1812 02:01:27,679 --> 02:01:29,839 part of the project. Brother, Dave, have yourself a great 1813 02:01:29,839 --> 02:01:31,639 weekend, my friend. You 1814 02:01:31,640 --> 02:01:33,680 Dave Jones: too. I got two Boston butts on the smoker right 1815 02:01:33,680 --> 02:01:35,900 now. We're gonna chow down today. Yeah, 1816 02:01:36,020 --> 02:01:38,720 Adam Curry: chowing down is the best part of the weekend. We'll 1817 02:01:38,720 --> 02:01:42,460 be back next Friday with another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 1818 02:01:42,940 --> 02:01:44,380 Take care, everybody. Bye, bye. Guys 1819 02:01:59,140 --> 02:02:03,660 Unknown: are cool. You have been listening to podcasting? To 1820 02:02:03,660 --> 02:02:08,460 point oh, visit podcast index.org for more information. 1821 02:02:09,000 --> 02:02:09,840 Go podcasting. 1822 02:02:11,640 --> 02:02:12,780 Adam Curry: It's for freedom. You.