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Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for
June 28 2024, episode 184 donor

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bone haha Hey, hello. It's time
once again for podcasting 2.0

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And we're back on a Friday.
Thanks for joining us on the

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last episode, which was
Saturday, everybody's here in

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the boardroom we are ready to
go. We are of course the only

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boardroom that won't talk about
the debate last night. I'm Adam

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curry here in the heart of the
Texas Hill Country and Alabama.

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The man who was three feet of
pure Thunderbolt for under 75

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bucks. Ladies say hello to my
friend on the other end, the one

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and only Mr. Dave Jones

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Dave Jones: called me right in
the middle of taking my shoes

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off.

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Adam Curry: I wonder what that
was? Oh, there it is. Yes, yes.

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Yes.

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Dave Jones: All right. I'm good.
I'm set now. Hey, David, how

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Adam Curry: are you? I know. Are
you on summer schedule? Do you

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have to go back? Are you on
lunchtime or what? Are you good?

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Dave Jones: I'm free. I'm free.
You free? Free, beautiful and

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free of all time constraints.

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Adam Curry: It's been. It's been
one of those nights free of

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time. That's right. Yes. No, I
am. I was actually. Okay. Let me

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work backwards. I was invited to
appear on the media roundtable

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with Dan Granger. Oh, really?
Yeah. Which is a high Bobby.

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Yeah. Which is not on the meat.
Not on the on the roundtable

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roundtable. But the podcast.
Yeah. But on the individual. Hi,

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Baba. My dog just came back from
the from the groomer. She's

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always nice. Smells nice. Smell
good, y'all. Yeah, toes are

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good. Hey, fevers, good girl.
And, of course, you know, it's

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like the timing of that was
difficult. There's time zones

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involved. I think he's in
California. So we decided and I

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and he called me, like, couple
of weeks ago, I said, Are you

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sure you want me on this podcast
with?

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Dave Jones: You? Seems like a
terrible idea. It

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Adam Curry: was an intro from
James actually. I'm like, Okay,

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from James crema. You really
want me on this? But yeah,

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definitely. And Tina this
morning, we're saying Does he

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know you? Does he

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Dave Jones: feel like there's a
like he thinks that you're Adam

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Carolla. No,

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Adam Curry: no, he knows he knew
exactly who I was. And now we

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only had an hour. And I knew
that there's you can't do

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anything in an hour. Like,
because I got a show. I have a,

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I actually said I have a hard
stop at 12. So of course,

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knowing that I would have to let
it go to 1215. We had, I would

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say we had a great conversation.
And we have to do really we have

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to do more episodes. Oh, yeah,
he's a radio guy. He comes from

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selling local radio spots. So he
you know, we do have a lot of

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touch points. But as it always
is amazing to me. How many

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people want to hear the story?
Well, that's half your podcast.

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And I was like, well, story of,
of podcasts, that story of Adam

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curry. Oh, which, of course is
riveting. I understand.

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Dave Jones: I read it quite
often. And

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Adam Curry: you know, I always
try to give a different twist to

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it and everything. But he's got
a very professional outfit, you

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know, people organizing, or
there's all really good. But we

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do have to do more, because I
barely scratched the surface of

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2.0.

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Dave Jones: What was the overall
what why did he want you on the

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show? Well,

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Adam Curry: you know, because I
have a differing opinion about

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the podcast industrial complex,
but he made the mistake. Or, you

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know, he says, well, it's
unique. We're doing this today,

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let's talk about the debate. I'm
like, Ah,

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Dave Jones: that's that's like,

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Adam Curry: that's hours. 18
minutes, you know, it's like it,

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but it's okay. Because, you
know, we actually didn't

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disagree much, but we're not
going to talk about that here.

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Because it's like, I don't want
to thank you. Now, I don't want

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to talk about that. And of
course, this week has been

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interesting, because Tuesday, I
had to go in for a bone graft to

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fix some stuff. Yes, some
grillwork. Yeah, yeah, that was

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kind of interesting. Have you
ever had it where? Because, you

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know, I'm, I'm friends with a
periodontist. And, and we are

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joking. We also fly together in
his plane. We also joke around a

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lot, you know, is it because you
know, you like you like get the

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Lidocaine and he's like, I'm
sorry. So you're not sorry. Stop

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saying that. It's a lie. It's
fake news. So now he's he does a

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sorry, sorry, not sorry. Not
sorry. Not sorry. Javid it is so

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but I'm really good. I mean, I
actually is strange say it I

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have fun when I go to these
procedures. But then, you know,

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he's poking around because we've
had to take off a bridge and

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then you know, get this this
donor bone in and well Whoa,

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whoa, donor bone. Oh, yeah. No,
no, no, this

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Dave Jones: what is this?

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Adam Curry: Oh, no, I mean, I've
had all the other work I had

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done is it's the graft bone into
onto your bone and it's bone

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that's been donated, and this
week there's a big sale on Hamas

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bone. So I'm sorry I'm the
worst. I know I'm horrible.

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Dave Jones: Granger regrets ever
asking you to come on his show?

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Number one can donor bone the
the name of the title?

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Adam Curry: Yes, that's very
good. Yes.

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Dave Jones: And we I mean and
who donates these bones like

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well donate a bone to somebody
else's mouth

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Adam Curry: well so I actually I
do pray for these people because

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they're dead. They take the bone
within 24 hours of someone

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dying. And then you know, put it
on ice or whatever. And then

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there's a there's a bone bank
consciences

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Dave Jones: George Washington's
slave tea

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Adam Curry: Well, the previous
the previous bone were convinced

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was Uyghur bone. So you know, I
now speak Mandarin and and Akbar

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was working on what kind of

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Dave Jones: this is the origin
of these bones? Is

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Adam Curry: it sorted? And who
knows, you know, he may be

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trying to get me a deal like
getting something that fell off

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the truck and I am against some
cheekbone

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Dave Jones: is a bone shyster.

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Adam Curry: So but then, so
before he takes off this, you

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know, because then he has to
drilled to get to this the

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screws is that I mean, it's a
very physical process. And it's

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actually quite interesting,
complicated instrument is it's

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an erector set for sure. And if
anyone if that's relevant to

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anyone these days, and then he's
poking around, he's like, and he

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steps back, pulls down his mass,
he says, Dude, now whenever your

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periodontist does that I'm like,
and I'm like, what? Now? You're

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freaking out? Yeah, he's like,
Well, it looks like we may have

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significant bone loss it could
have could have affected the

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canine, the implant may have
failed. That's a 2% chance and

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implant fails. He said the
implant may have failed, we'll

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have to, then we'll have to go
through this whole process of

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taking that implant out
extracting the canine we got to

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put in we have to ossify bone
for a couple months. Were

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temporary, which means a whole
time. I mean, I'm like, oh my

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god, do I really?

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Dave Jones: This is like
starting over from

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Adam Curry: smaller piece. But
yeah. And he says, So what do

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you want to do? He said, Well,
baby steps. Let's get the bridge

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off and see how it looks. And
then he takes obviously, ah, now

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we're good. Thanks. Thanks, bro.
It's hard to tell. That's why I

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didn't take it off. It's all
good now, but then it was like

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an hour of I mean, it's really
physical. He's like digging

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around because he had to make a
group. I mean, I'll spare the

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details. So it's just been it's
just been an interesting week to

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say, interesting week.

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Dave Jones: I mean, how are you
in pain? How's it how's your

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mouth?

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Adam Curry: It only hurts when
that laugh. Okay, it actually

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did it actually, if I really
laugh broadly, but now it's not

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painful. And I would advise
anyone to take care of your oral

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health because it has improved
my life in so many ways. And,

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and I'm amazed at how much I can
actually endure when it comes to

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pain got hearing for free got
hearing for free. My

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Dave Jones: allergies want to
wander in bed. Yeah, everything.

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Oh,

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Adam Curry: I don't know about
that.

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Dave Jones: The sting of
periodontal work.

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Adam Curry: There's still some
work on that on that front.

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Yeah, and so there we are.
Anyway, so it's just in so I

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ended late with him. And I still
had to find a song for today's

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show. And I actually wanted to
clip something which I didn't

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get to clip because there was
this fantastic YouTube

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conversation of a couple of
podcast now these are all black

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podcasters and they just go on
and me the title of the YouTube

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is everybody in podcasting be
broke. And now want to hear

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this. Yeah, 60 minutes. So I got
to clip it down. I'll put it in

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the show notes. People can do
that themselves. But it was it

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was an interesting conversation
because they're basically

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talking about the big change,
you know, ever since you know,

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Spotify, basically eject it from
the industry. You know, there's

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no more minimum guarantees. It's
a real hustle. Everybody has to

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wait 90 to 120 days to get paid
because you're getting paid last

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in the chain after the agency
and just what an incredible mess

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it is. And then YouTube they
finally gave me some real

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numbers. Bala Thank you. 20 is
blades

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Dave Jones: to help head
trigger. Yeah,

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Adam Curry: let's see how see
how big that baller was.

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blueberry, blueberry 169,691
Whoa, he's still in the room.

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He's blueberry enters the chat.
I'm so enthralled with the

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weren't put forward by the crew
for the upcoming satellite

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skirmish, lit in app Sunday 4pm
Central Stephen B and Eric

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peopIe have transformed the
split kit into something really

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magical. Please check it out at
live is lit.com. That's an ad.

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It's an ad. Hey, that's

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Dave Jones: the way ads are
supposed to work.

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Adam Curry: Sam Sethi he puts in
100 SATs and says sadly, I can't

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hear this live show on true fans
pod verse or fountain? I don't

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know. That doesn't seem to be I
haven't heard any more reports

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of that.

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Dave Jones: I don't hear Yeah.

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Adam Curry: Hope it works out.
Anyway. Back to what was I

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saying? I get to got

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Dave Jones: interrupted live is
lit is looking good. Oh, no,

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that's

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Adam Curry: already real good.
That's looking real good. What

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was it? What was a was an AI
yapping on about so whatever it

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is. Oh,

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Dave Jones: good. YouTube. No.
Yeah. Yeah.

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Adam Curry: So it's $1 per six
600 views, which I think works

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out to about a buck 40 CPM.

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Dave Jones: Are you kidding? Net
is horrible. And is it a is it a

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sliding CPM? Based on based on
other criteria? Or is that just

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pretty much standard payoff for
everyone?

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Adam Curry: Oh, hold on a
second. Dave. I see. I see the

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problem. I see the problem. Oh,
yeah. Remember, we put the we

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put the we use the we did use a
different stream on on Saturday.

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Dave Jones: Oh, because we were
interrupting somebody? Yeah. Is

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that other stream still in the

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Adam Curry: in the in the
enclosure? Let me see. Yeah,

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sorry. Okay. That makes sense.
Let me see. Let me just make

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sure this is the right stream.
Yeah, that's the right one.

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Sorry about that. Okay, maybe if
someone can let Sam know.

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Luckily, there's only a handful
of people who listen to this.

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Sure. It was just really
interesting to see that you

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know, that. They were really
hustling but they really all the

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money was now YouTube money.
Even though they have a million

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downloads audio. For the same
podcast, they can't make any

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money off of it. The whole thing
is just it was it was very eye

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opening. very eye opening.

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Dave Jones: So what did you say
the CPM was on? Like a buck? 40

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for YouTube? Yeah.

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Adam Curry: I mean, if it's six,
if it's $1 per 600 views 1000

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views would be about a buck. 40
about? Yeah, Buck 40. Yeah. Am I

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saying that right? More or less?

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Dave Jones: So if you had a
million bunches see? And then

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you

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Adam Curry: and then, of course,
that has to be qualified,

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qualified views and the whole
it's just a mess. And then an

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algo

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Dave Jones: miss a million views
gets you 14 roughly 1400 bucks.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly.

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Dave Jones: That's, that's,
that's not life changing money.

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Adam Curry: Well, you gotta be
pretty heavy to get a million

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views. But back to Dan Granger,
you know, I did get to the point

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with him was like, with the one
thing no one ever talks about?

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What do you what are these
podcasts about? We all talk

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about brand safe, not brand
safe. But what are they about?

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Who are they serving? You know,
you got to just do a podcast,

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just do a podcast and make
money. Good luck. You have

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something to say? Do you have an
audience that you want to speak

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to that you want to reach? If
it's just entertainment stuff?

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Okay, good luck. You know, this
is what I love about this

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podcast. This podcast is
literally, for the people in the

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2.0 community and others who are
interested in it, then it's not

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even a podcast, it's a board
meeting. Hello. medium medium

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equals board meeting

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Dave Jones: that I was reading
additional stuff that paywalls

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this week. And I think I want to
ask and ask our guest about that

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though. But I mean, I think you
know, one of the things I read I

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think they just let's just speak
generally here at this economy

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is is teetering on the edge big
to me like big time

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Adam Curry: that uses a close up
right in your business. You can

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you are there indicators? Yeah.

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Dave Jones: Well, yeah, but you
know, it's more like the, the,

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like, the story about Walgreens
this week. And you know,

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Walgreens is closing up to 25%
of its stores. And I don't know

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if you saw this but um, you know
what they decided was consumer

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they the CEO said consumers are
quote stunned at prices right

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now.

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Adam Curry: I do not see it but
I believe it Yeah, yeah.

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Dave Jones: Says Walgreens is
planning to close close about

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25% of its 8700 stores cut his
profit outlook for the year

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citing worse than expected
consumer spending. He said

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quote, we witnessed continued
pressure on the US consumer our

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customers have become
increasingly selective and

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pricing sort of in their
purchases? Yeah. I mean, that

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the one thing that was I had
been reading about the other day

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is that, you know, retail retail
spending, retail spending is is

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reported as just the year over
year numbers are like, Okay,

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well, this is disappointing,
because retail spending is only

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up 3%, quarter over quarter or
whatever. But that's never

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inflation adjusted. If you look
at the inflation adjusted retail

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spending, down huge is down
huge. Like it's it's basically

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been been flat for about three
years. And before that it was

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down, it was down. It's this
economy is way worse than than

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is known, and that if you just
read headlines, and I'm afraid

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and like, I'm afraid that, you
know, of course, you're not

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going to be able to do the
payouts that you used to be if

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you're somebody like YouTube,
and if or if you're any of these

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sort of siloed closed systems,
or advertising based systems.

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You just can't, you can't do
that because the spending is not

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there. This is this economy is
really weak in ways that we

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don't understand because it's
being

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Adam Curry: what we're being
gasless we're being gaslit a

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it's great Biden omics works,
it's all fantastic. But I see

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it, I do I go to the grocery
store, I shop. I said, like what

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you can't get out of there for
under 100 bucks when you look in

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your basket, like what did I
actually buy?

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Dave Jones: Yeah, nothing. You
know, isn't isn't a you know,

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you get one, one grocery bag.
And it's like, yeah, 80 bucks.

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It's insane. So I just, I think
that this all fits into this all

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fits together. Because those
CPMs if you look at you could

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you can look at across this the
same way with CPMs and

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podcasting advertising. It's not
this is not adjusting for

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inflation, that $22 CPM or $23
CPM that was paying out five

284
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:14,610
years ago. It's still at $22 or
$23. You're losing money every

285
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year. You're losing money every
month. You know if you're so if

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you're studying if you're
getting because we always hear

287
00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:27,720
of these podcasts CPMs in the
2020 to $25 range, depending on

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the show.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, it's really
down 30% adjusted for inflation.

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Yeah, because it

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Dave Jones: never that number
has not moved. Yeah. So you

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know, and then now your
downloads are down. Because of

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the apple podcast, the only iOS

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Adam Curry: 17 apocalypse, yes,
yeah. Hey, by the way,

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everybody, if you're listening
to Apple podcast, go into your

296
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menu there and select automatic
downloads and select last 10

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00:17:50,910 --> 00:17:55,200
episodes would really help us
out. Hit the three dots. Three

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dots. That's right. You'd really
help us out. We're not

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00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,790
defrauding the advertiser at
all. But

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Dave Jones: that any any of
these numbers that stay static

301
00:18:05,460 --> 00:18:10,350
like this, you're you're losing
money. This this is all that I

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00:18:10,350 --> 00:18:14,850
mean. So I mean, my son he's got
two jobs My daughter has two

303
00:18:14,850 --> 00:18:20,160
jobs because they have to
because they have live random

304
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,960
life. Yes, they have a
restaurant job which pays tips

305
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,160
which is which helps them make
ends meet but their primary job

306
00:18:29,550 --> 00:18:33,120
is you know, that's they're
still making like 14 bucks an

307
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:38,040
hour. You can't live $14 an hour
that is now an unsustainable

308
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:38,700
wage.

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00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:41,340
Adam Curry: Now the only people
who are making 30 bucks an hour

310
00:18:41,340 --> 00:18:44,850
on a government jobs surprise
surprise.

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Dave Jones: Oh yeah. Yeah, and
people that buches

312
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,750
Adam Curry: buches is doing
well. There were a lot of they

313
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:57,900
are so along with that comes the
the fake stock market which of

314
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:01,590
course is also up because it's
adjusted for inflation. Hello.

315
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,220
This is this is exactly how
we're wired. Why are the prices

316
00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:08,100
of stocks up because they're
being adjusted and that doesn't

317
00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:09,270
go What are we drinking?

318
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:16,590
Dave Jones: Oh, this is a liquid
death mango chainsaw. Just

319
00:19:16,590 --> 00:19:21,960
Adam Curry: gonna give you a
stroke. Depressive name that's

320
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:24,870
that's what the word all all
these strokes and heart attacks

321
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:26,760
is from energy drinks of course.

322
00:19:26,970 --> 00:19:29,160
Dave Jones: No, no, this is
pure. This is only sparkling

323
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,810
This is flavored water zero
calories,

324
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,330
Adam Curry: but it hasn't. It
has death on the label. Dave

325
00:19:33,330 --> 00:19:35,310
Jones What are you thinking has
depth on?

326
00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:38,010
Dave Jones: This makes it makes
you want to buy it? It's like

327
00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:40,080
the Surgeon General's liquido
Yeah,

328
00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:43,140
Adam Curry: exactly. Like you
could have these lungs if you

329
00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:47,130
smoke these cigarettes. I think
what bossom? Yes, yeah, that's

330
00:19:47,130 --> 00:19:52,440
been proven to work actually. So
the stock market of course

331
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,060
really being propped up or
certainly the s&p 500 by Nvidia

332
00:19:57,690 --> 00:20:02,910
and the end the exhaust Going in
spending still on AI, which has

333
00:20:02,910 --> 00:20:05,730
just been that it's going to
crash. Or well, it's interesting

334
00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:09,060
because I came across an article
in Ars Technica, I talked about

335
00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:13,710
it on no agenda yesterday. And,
and it turns out that Brian of

336
00:20:13,710 --> 00:20:18,630
London, did his PhD thesis on
this very thing, which is and so

337
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:21,000
he's going to look at it for me
and tell me if it's full of crap

338
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,240
or not. Here's the headline, Ars
Technica ili Ars Technica, I

339
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,490
think that pretty interesting
articles, I think they usually

340
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,380
spot on a lot of stuff.
Researchers up end AI status quo

341
00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:35,880
by eliminating matrix
multiplication in MLMs. Running

342
00:20:35,910 --> 00:20:39,690
ai ai models without float
floating point matrix math could

343
00:20:39,690 --> 00:20:48,540
mean far less power consumption.
And so the highlight here is a

344
00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:51,900
new paper titled scalable Matt
mall free language modeling

345
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:55,440
researchers described creating a
custom 2.7 billion parameter

346
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,410
model without using Matt mol,
which is the matrix

347
00:20:58,410 --> 00:21:01,290
multiplication that features
similar performance to

348
00:21:01,290 --> 00:21:04,680
conventional large language
models. They also demonstrate

349
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,780
running a 1.3 billion parameter
model at 23.8 tokens per second

350
00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:15,510
on a GPU that was accelerated by
custom programmed FPGA chip that

351
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:19,410
only uses 13 watts of power.
That's a lot less than this

352
00:21:19,410 --> 00:21:20,400
invidious stuff.

353
00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:23,880
Dave Jones: DaVita says, I know
the guy who wrote that paper.

354
00:21:24,510 --> 00:21:25,200
And

355
00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:31,290
Adam Curry: and, and so Brian of
London knows this stuff. And if

356
00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:35,550
this is true, this could up and
in videos, high perch very

357
00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:39,720
quickly. Oh, yeah, for sure. Um,
that would be a

358
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,720
Dave Jones: funds from invidious
documentation matrix

359
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,010
multiplication, background User
Guide. General matrix

360
00:21:47,010 --> 00:21:49,740
multiplications are a
fundamental building block for

361
00:21:49,740 --> 00:21:53,370
many operations in neural
networks. Yeah, they have a

362
00:21:53,370 --> 00:21:57,330
whole document on multiplication
in their invidious

363
00:21:57,330 --> 00:21:58,590
documentation. And that

364
00:21:58,590 --> 00:22:03,240
Adam Curry: Brian of London, did
his thesis on Friday, like I

365
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,110
never said never ceases to amaze
me. Very interesting.

366
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,820
Dave Jones: Yeah, that could
that could be that could be, it

367
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:15,780
could be bad. It could be bad.
Because I mean, the NVIDIA is,

368
00:22:15,810 --> 00:22:21,570
is, I mean, they're, they're
half the market now. Nobody else

369
00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:22,860
is going up. Nope.

370
00:22:23,970 --> 00:22:26,190
Adam Curry: Do we want to talk
at all about what we've been

371
00:22:26,190 --> 00:22:28,110
working on behind the scenes?
Where do you feel it's too

372
00:22:28,110 --> 00:22:28,560
early?

373
00:22:29,820 --> 00:22:32,880
Dave Jones: I mean, we can I
mean, I've got I can I can, we

374
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,700
can demo it real quick, if
anybody wants to play along.

375
00:22:35,910 --> 00:22:36,360
Okay.

376
00:22:36,870 --> 00:22:39,690
Adam Curry: Let me let me I'll
tell and then we actually bring

377
00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:43,830
in our guests midway, because
they can probably weigh in on

378
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:46,650
this might be I think it'd be of
interest to them. These rock and

379
00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:53,640
roll boys. So I'm gonna be
honest, and I think I speak on

380
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,290
behalf of you, Dave, Saturday's
podcast board meeting was kind

381
00:22:58,290 --> 00:23:04,440
of a gut punch. When it comes to
albies, understandable switch

382
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,330
away from providing custodial
wallets. Whereas right now,

383
00:23:09,330 --> 00:23:15,000
we're kind of in this frozen
state of you can't in the United

384
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,140
States, which arguably is a
market that's important that we

385
00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:23,820
can't create new custodial
wallets for value for value

386
00:23:23,850 --> 00:23:31,470
payments. And as much as I do,
and this of course, was flagged

387
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:36,960
a while ago by the Costello
Institute. Jim Julian Ainsley,

388
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,090
hello in the Costello Institute,
who, you know, they're like

389
00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:48,810
this, this is not working. We
can't be onboarding musicians by

390
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,710
you know, by giving them an hour
long onboarding, onboarding

391
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:55,500
session, orange pilling him and
then telling that need to, you

392
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:59,130
know, fund a channel on their
node. I mean, this is this is a

393
00:23:59,130 --> 00:24:04,710
non starter. And I understand
and I also understand why Alby

394
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:08,130
has to move this way. And from a
larger perspective, stepping

395
00:24:08,130 --> 00:24:14,850
back it's kind of the whole
Lightning Network concept falls

396
00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:21,930
apart a bit on on this idea of
custodial can't be done. Yeah, I

397
00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:25,320
mean, even even for noster zaps
if you think about it, I mean,

398
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,280
all that stuff is wallet of
Satoshi you know or whatever.

399
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,580
It's all it's all custodial
wallets, except for you know, a

400
00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:38,430
few exceptions and Zeus is there
and and the breeze wallet and

401
00:24:38,430 --> 00:24:42,030
there are others. But everyone
else is kind of either pulled

402
00:24:42,030 --> 00:24:45,090
out of the market or seeing some
writing on the wall and saying

403
00:24:45,090 --> 00:24:48,120
wow, doesn't look it looks like
we're all money transmitters

404
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:52,590
now. So we kind of, you know,
the only the only outfit that

405
00:24:52,590 --> 00:24:56,610
has both sides in a way is
fountain because they have the

406
00:24:56,610 --> 00:24:59,190
Zebedee on the back end which
has the money transmitter

407
00:24:59,190 --> 00:25:01,110
licenses. All right.

408
00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:04,470
Dave Jones: So they can I mean,
Roy told us this. There's so

409
00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:07,920
many things we're going there's
so many parts to this all at the

410
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,060
same time. Because I Roy told us
this a year ago, that

411
00:25:12,570 --> 00:25:16,650
everybody's just sort of like
doing everybody's doing this and

412
00:25:16,650 --> 00:25:19,590
not really and just sort of
hoping that to stay under the

413
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:23,370
radar. Right? Because they
don't. Because no, because it's

414
00:25:23,370 --> 00:25:27,210
never really been tested in any
legal sense about money

415
00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:31,290
transmission if you're if you're
hosting custodial wallets. And

416
00:25:31,290 --> 00:25:34,890
it's understandable that that,
you know, organizations like

417
00:25:34,890 --> 00:25:38,580
Alby in, I mean, Tim, at LNP, he
said the same thing. He's like,

418
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,050
I don't, this is too risky. I
mean, I don't think he didn't

419
00:25:43,050 --> 00:25:46,050
think he's doing anything wrong.
But But this, the regulations

420
00:25:46,050 --> 00:25:47,160
are just so unclear.

421
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:49,260
Adam Curry: And not yet not even
just the regulation, just the

422
00:25:49,260 --> 00:25:53,070
whole managing a massive node.
You know, with all these

423
00:25:53,070 --> 00:25:56,190
accounts, and you know, when you
have accounts, there's all kinds

424
00:25:56,190 --> 00:26:00,600
of issues, and I get it, I
totally understand it. But the

425
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,240
hope that we had placed a lot of
our bets on was this LSP model,

426
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,490
which also kind of got rug
pulled. Because what came back

427
00:26:11,490 --> 00:26:16,500
as well, it really doesn't make
sense for for micro payments, to

428
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:20,430
have an LSP. Because there's no
ROI on opening up the channels

429
00:26:20,430 --> 00:26:23,190
for these little little bitty
bits you guys are sending back

430
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:28,020
and forth. But oh, okay. Well,
that wasn't made clear.

431
00:26:28,890 --> 00:26:31,800
Dave Jones: That's, that's a
good points. So the lightning

432
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:38,220
ecosystem was promised from the
beginning to be the solution to

433
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:43,380
on chain difficulties. And it
was it was very much positioned

434
00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:50,220
as the, the way that people
could, like, do things like pay

435
00:26:50,220 --> 00:26:54,390
for your coffee, and this kind
of stuff. And so that the idea

436
00:26:54,390 --> 00:27:01,380
there is that this was this was
these were ways for crypto to be

437
00:27:01,380 --> 00:27:06,000
served for Bitcoin to be spent
by the average person. You know,

438
00:27:06,210 --> 00:27:15,240
but then, if you don't, but I
think we took that to mean this

439
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,770
was the ditch you can be saw
sovereign in this way. Yeah. And

440
00:27:19,770 --> 00:27:23,760
that's not entirely accurate.
You technically can be.

441
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:29,940
Adam Curry: Yeah, but it's not
for the every average day guy.

442
00:27:29,940 --> 00:27:33,420
It's not an app you install on
your phone. I mean, and God

443
00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:37,350
bless Chad F man, he's out
there. This is a dough. What do

444
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:41,550
you what did Dr. Pepper baby
from Waco, Texas? The original

445
00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:45,840
Yeah. Oh, G. God bless Chad F
for you know, being on the

446
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,520
cutting edge of Zeus and their
Olympus LSP. But it's, you know,

447
00:27:50,550 --> 00:27:54,090
it's still it's got to run in
the background on your phone and

448
00:27:54,090 --> 00:27:56,610
the minute that disconnects and
of course, we chose KY sand for

449
00:27:56,610 --> 00:28:00,510
a whole bunch of reasons. Mainly
because, well, you run into the

450
00:28:00,510 --> 00:28:03,480
same issues with Ellen URL. I
mean, you still have to have a

451
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,350
custodial solution somewhere
doing something. You know, it's

452
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:09,960
not like you just have a wallet,
and I'm good to go. You know,

453
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:14,130
yeah, you've got stuff that is
working. But in the background,

454
00:28:14,130 --> 00:28:15,420
it's all the same problem.

455
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:21,000
Dave Jones: Yeah, which so what
we've seen, what we were told

456
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,280
was that lightning was going to
fix all that. But what we've

457
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,810
seen what's actually happened is
lightning is Eve has evolved

458
00:28:27,810 --> 00:28:38,700
into a way to move funds between
institutional wallets is a way

459
00:28:38,730 --> 00:28:42,870
it's the glue that makes things
easier for the for the large

460
00:28:43,290 --> 00:28:47,850
players. Yes. If you have a if
you have a

461
00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:50,670
Adam Curry: well if you have a
Zebedee, Zebedee can actually

462
00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:54,990
provide that type of service.
But they don't cash out but they

463
00:28:54,990 --> 00:28:58,740
don't do it free. You know, you
can't become a Zebedee partner

464
00:28:58,740 --> 00:29:01,140
and just say hey, look, I got
free wallets No.

465
00:29:02,580 --> 00:29:05,130
Dave Jones: So you know that
it's going to be that Lightning

466
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,320
Lightning is going to serve a
role but lightning is going to

467
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:14,100
serve the purpose of of
decoupling treatment money

468
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:20,370
transferred fun transmission
from the chain for people for

469
00:29:20,370 --> 00:29:25,440
larger for larger institutions,
like you're gonna have a Cash

470
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,680
App wallet and now you can move
Bitcoin from one place to

471
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:29,760
another without having

472
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,890
Adam Curry: you can move it to
strike you can move it to strike

473
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,390
or something else. Yes, exactly.

474
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,150
Dave Jones: And that was going
to NS was going to our or your,

475
00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:39,900
your, your point of sale
providers like breeze does that

476
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:43,080
square, you know, the they're
all going to link together with

477
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,430
lightning and that's going to be
fine. But for our for our

478
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:52,500
purposes. It's just a humongous
barrier. Because if you have to

479
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:55,080
be a money transmitter, yeah. So

480
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,050
Adam Curry: chat. Chat app says
in the in the chat he says you

481
00:29:58,050 --> 00:30:01,350
can connect the Zeus LSP to a no
Oh, that's what I did 5 million

482
00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:05,040
sets in bound for $20. That's
not going to work. I mean, this

483
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,580
is my point in the lb guys.
They're Correct. Like, hey,

484
00:30:08,970 --> 00:30:11,910
everybody needs one of these.
Everybody needs their own wallet

485
00:30:11,910 --> 00:30:14,940
is a node in the cloud? Sure.
But it's, it's a non starter,

486
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:17,400
the minute you have to pay for
it, no one's going to do it.

487
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,710
Even the having the knowledge of
a channel, and no one wants

488
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:26,850
that. That's just marketing
wise, that will not work. It's

489
00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:30,510
hard enough to explain Satoshis
blood, let alone all this other

490
00:30:30,510 --> 00:30:32,850
stuff. So you

491
00:30:32,850 --> 00:30:35,280
Dave Jones: got so you got to
with all that in the background?

492
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,170
You started looking into No,

493
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,340
Adam Curry: no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, I did what I always do.

494
00:30:41,850 --> 00:30:44,790
I got on my knees and fought
like a man in prayer, Dave

495
00:30:44,790 --> 00:30:45,420
Jones.

496
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,400
Dave Jones: Okay. And then it
came to me what happened? God

497
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,840
Adam Curry: gave me a solution,
I think, okay, and introduce me,

498
00:30:54,870 --> 00:30:57,990
it really happens this way.
Like, all of a sudden being the

499
00:30:57,990 --> 00:31:01,980
pops a message, like check this
out. And it's this concept

500
00:31:01,980 --> 00:31:08,760
called E cash. And I'm going to
try and explain this. It is the

501
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:18,180
equivalent of a gift card where
you create a gift card of any

502
00:31:18,210 --> 00:31:22,740
amount. And you can then hand
that to somebody else, you could

503
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,210
physically hand it to them on a
QR code, you could send this

504
00:31:27,810 --> 00:31:33,870
string of payment information to
them on to email, you could send

505
00:31:33,870 --> 00:31:37,560
it through ham radio, is
actually how I found out about

506
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,780
it, believe it or not, that
people using this with ham

507
00:31:39,780 --> 00:31:50,310
radio, and the actual settlement
of said giftcard happens on on

508
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:56,910
the node that it was created.
And I like this, because you can

509
00:31:56,940 --> 00:32:01,020
create, you can use multiple
funding sources. The E cash, by

510
00:32:01,020 --> 00:32:04,440
the way, was mentioned in the
Satoshi white paper. It's a

511
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,590
concept that's been around for
decades, it never really caught

512
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:12,660
on. And a couple of guys decided
to build this on top of Bitcoin,

513
00:32:12,660 --> 00:32:16,140
specifically lightning, but you
could also use it with Fiat with

514
00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:18,960
with dollars and which is
interesting and should be looked

515
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,670
at. And we'll get to that. But
right now we have an

516
00:32:20,670 --> 00:32:25,260
implementation based on the
Lightning Network. And what is

517
00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:29,760
most interesting about it is
that the flay funding source can

518
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,020
be offered through the strike
API. Now you can also use your

519
00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:37,140
own lightning node so so you
can, you can still use this

520
00:32:37,140 --> 00:32:43,740
solution in a sovereign way. But
you can also use it with a

521
00:32:43,740 --> 00:32:47,430
strike wallet. And why is that
interesting, because strike is a

522
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:51,990
money transmitter. And they have
all the licenses to have to

523
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:57,510
facilitate people to send and
receive via, via their system.

524
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,990
So we have a reference
implementation that we've put

525
00:33:00,990 --> 00:33:05,580
together, it's called a mint.
And what you do is you you fund

526
00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:08,940
your E cash wallet, and the E
cash wallet is literally

527
00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:12,840
JavaScript. So you can spin up a
million wallets as many as you

528
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,120
want. It doesn't make any
difference, it looks just like a

529
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,500
lightning wallet. You say, Okay,
I want some money in this. you

530
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:23,160
fund it by sending a lightning
payment, just a regular

531
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,220
lightning payment to the mint.
And then that money shows up

532
00:33:26,220 --> 00:33:30,660
right away in your E cash wallet
in Satoshis. You could again it

533
00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:32,640
could be dollars, euros,
whatever. In fact, they even

534
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,320
have $1 in your implementation.

535
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:38,280
Dave Jones: Let me let me hit
pause on you for a second that

536
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,720
this is I need to I need to just
insert here that this is a very

537
00:33:46,830 --> 00:33:49,110
hard thing to explain to people

538
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:52,740
Adam Curry: told it took me two
days to get to explain it to

539
00:33:52,740 --> 00:33:54,600
you. Yes,

540
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,170
Dave Jones: it is very difficult
to explain. When you first start

541
00:33:58,170 --> 00:34:03,870
seeing this thing and trying to
explain it. It sounds the eyes

542
00:34:03,870 --> 00:34:07,800
glaze over and the person you're
talking to is like this is not

543
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,900
better, this is worse. But if
you just hang in there, it

544
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:17,910
actually is easier. You just get
a hang with it from

545
00:34:18,330 --> 00:34:22,650
Adam Curry: from from a high
level. You fund so you have a

546
00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:26,670
wallet. you fund it with a
lightning payment. You can do

547
00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:29,790
that from any any app, you can
fund it. You could fund it from

548
00:34:29,790 --> 00:34:35,430
strike from Cash App just it's a
regular old lightning payment,

549
00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:39,660
no keys and nothing special.
That's how you fund it. You see

550
00:34:39,660 --> 00:34:43,530
that? Forget what happens on the
backend. You see that in your

551
00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:47,400
app, your your wallet, and you
can pay someone and the way you

552
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,690
pay someone is you say here's
the amount, pay someone and it

553
00:34:51,690 --> 00:34:55,590
gives you a string. And that
string literally can be given to

554
00:34:55,590 --> 00:35:00,540
someone. They put it into their
wallet they say receive and They

555
00:35:00,540 --> 00:35:04,590
receive right into their wallet.
So that means you can send that

556
00:35:04,590 --> 00:35:08,940
through any transmission
protocol you want. The beauty on

557
00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:11,550
the back end is it never
actually leaves the funding

558
00:35:11,550 --> 00:35:17,250
source. It's all there. So
you're actually creating a gift

559
00:35:17,250 --> 00:35:20,340
card, someone's taking it, and
then when they redeem it,

560
00:35:20,370 --> 00:35:22,950
they're going back to what's
called the mint, and they redeem

561
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:24,990
it there, and they can send it
out to wherever they want.

562
00:35:25,740 --> 00:35:30,480
That's how simple it is. And the
beauty is no fees. You have

563
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,600
fees, getting it in and out, you
know, regular lightning fees.

564
00:35:34,020 --> 00:35:39,150
But you you send one Satoshi,
the person gets one Satoshi. And

565
00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:43,740
there's no fee in between. It's
a very, it's immediate, it's

566
00:35:43,740 --> 00:35:45,870
like just it's fast.

567
00:35:47,730 --> 00:35:51,960
Dave Jones: So just put a just
put a link to a wall a wallet.

568
00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:57,420
That's the Wallet Cash you don't
me. Service. It's just a it's

569
00:35:57,420 --> 00:36:01,680
just a demo wallet, that they
that they use what this it's it

570
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,340
makes more sense when you do it.
Yeah. So the wallet, the wallet

571
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,090
is just this is just some
JavaScript is stored in your

572
00:36:09,090 --> 00:36:13,800
local in your browser, local
storage. You get you get some

573
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,500
seed phrases to restore to
recover the wallet if you ever

574
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:24,990
lose it. Standard wallet II type
stuff. And then what happens is,

575
00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:30,540
you can link your wallet to
multiple mints. And for for

576
00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:33,090
testing purposes we we created a
mint.

577
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,490
Adam Curry: You want to post
that in the in the chat.

578
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:38,100
Dave Jones: I'm going to I'm
going to do one better. I'm

579
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:42,780
going to post the I'm going to
post a voucher.

580
00:36:43,890 --> 00:36:46,560
Adam Curry: Oh, we're only one
person who's gonna get it. Yeah,

581
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:53,010
right. Yes. Whoever whoever uses
that voucher first wins. Oh,

582
00:36:53,010 --> 00:36:56,370
boy. Oh, I'm itching to do it.
I'm itching to do it. Let's see.

583
00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:59,460
You have to you have to decode
it. Oh, you're sending more than

584
00:36:59,460 --> 00:37:01,770
one. You're doing multiple
vouchers. No,

585
00:37:01,770 --> 00:37:05,130
Dave Jones: no, no. This is like
I tried to just do one. But

586
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:07,230
Adam Curry: we'll see how that
works. Somehow we got three in

587
00:37:07,230 --> 00:37:09,510
the chat. Okay, well, I'll

588
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:12,390
Dave Jones: make the extra post
it on podcast index does social

589
00:37:12,420 --> 00:37:12,690
Well,

590
00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:16,860
Adam Curry: whoever. So whoever
paste that into the received box

591
00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:19,380
on the cashew wallet will get
the Satoshis?

592
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,130
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. So the

593
00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:27,270
Adam Curry: code that's all one.
Oh, I see that. Yeah, it's

594
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:29,340
broken up. Oh, it split it up.
Okay,

595
00:37:29,370 --> 00:37:31,500
Dave Jones: that's bad to meet.
Yeah, you're saying too many

596
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:34,770
steps. But this is what I'm
saying. Hang on, hang in there.

597
00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:42,240
It's, it's, it's more. It's not
as bad as it sounds, because the

598
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:47,910
issue here is that the is you
have to think about this as if

599
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:54,480
it's a podcast app. The podcast
app spins up a wallet just like

600
00:37:54,480 --> 00:38:00,270
you're going to this page. And
the person who's wanting to fund

601
00:38:00,270 --> 00:38:04,980
that wallet, just send some
funds to it from a source that

602
00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:10,590
they already own, like Cash App
strike, whatever they they have,

603
00:38:11,460 --> 00:38:15,960
they have like you already have
some bitcoin somewhere. So this

604
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,810
simplifies the onboarding
process or does because you

605
00:38:18,810 --> 00:38:21,840
already have some funds in a
trusted wallet that you are

606
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:27,840
controlling. So then you since
you send the some of those funds

607
00:38:27,870 --> 00:38:32,820
over to the wallet that's tied
to the mint. So the in that

608
00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:35,880
wallet can be spun up by any app
and the app doesn't have to have

609
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,750
custodianship over anything, the
custodian ship is at the minute.

610
00:38:40,410 --> 00:38:46,680
So then when, when the payment
happens is just an E cash

611
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:53,520
voucher for the tokenized for
the tokenized Satoshis. And that

612
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,920
just trades back and forth
instantaneously, it's all

613
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,000
offline transactions. Then when
somebody wants to take their

614
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,570
money out the podcaster they
just transfer it in a lightning

615
00:39:03,570 --> 00:39:06,600
payment back out to their
wallet, cash out whatever strike

616
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:11,760
it's, it's sort of like seeing
you know, funds go into get

617
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:16,920
tokenized and go into the to the
system ie the mint. And then

618
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,510
they come out on the other end
back into whatever funding you

619
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:24,750
know what destination 70 So

620
00:39:24,750 --> 00:39:27,360
Adam Curry: the people get stuck
at the Mint. So again, just from

621
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,450
a high level and then I want you
to go back down Dave from a high

622
00:39:30,450 --> 00:39:35,400
level. You open your podcast
that there's a wallet, that

623
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,400
wallet is connected to really
connect it to nothing you don't

624
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,430
have to know and you don't have
to know anything. And it says

625
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:44,760
would you like to fund the
wallet? Yes. How many sets do

626
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,650
you want to put in? And you So
you send SATs to an it can even

627
00:39:49,650 --> 00:39:54,480
be an Ellen URL address or it
can be Adam at podcast index dot

628
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,680
social actually, theoretically.
They say you send that from Cash

629
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,950
App from strike from You're a
wallet of Satoshi you send it

630
00:40:01,950 --> 00:40:05,400
from fountain, whatever it is
you send it in. From that moment

631
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,360
on, you're good to go, there's
no step three, then you're just

632
00:40:09,390 --> 00:40:14,400
boosting and, and, and sending
SATs, as you normally would. On

633
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,900
the receiving side, the podcasts
are has a wallet, and they get

634
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:22,560
all these receives like boom,
boom, boom. And then when they

635
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,950
want to do something with that,
they take it out of their wallet

636
00:40:25,950 --> 00:40:29,280
by sending a simple lightning
payment somewhere back to Cash

637
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,970
App, back, strike, back to
fountain wherever you want to

638
00:40:32,970 --> 00:40:39,120
have it. And that's it. And the
beauty is the custodian ship can

639
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:44,070
be completely sovereign, on your
own you so someone can be a

640
00:40:44,070 --> 00:40:47,760
funder of that and be a node,
you could even do everything

641
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:54,210
from your own node. But the
reason why it's a solution in

642
00:40:54,210 --> 00:40:58,290
this at this moment in time, is
because it's all running through

643
00:40:58,290 --> 00:41:02,130
strike, and we're getting a
business account. So and I think

644
00:41:02,130 --> 00:41:04,620
that this is something that
hosting companies should have

645
00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:07,800
their own account that they're
using to fund a meant for their

646
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,930
podcasters is, you know, there's
no reason why podcast apps

647
00:41:12,930 --> 00:41:15,960
wouldn't consider doing that.
But we're happy to start it

648
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,110
because all the money
transmitting is actually being

649
00:41:19,110 --> 00:41:22,620
done through strike. That's the
beauty. They have the

650
00:41:22,620 --> 00:41:26,010
transmitter licenses. Now. Does
that mean it works in Australia,

651
00:41:26,010 --> 00:41:28,230
I'm not sure strike in
Australia, I don't know

652
00:41:29,550 --> 00:41:31,680
Dave Jones: that well. But this
doesn't matter, though. Because

653
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,510
the the mint, it's just the
back. Right? You're right. The

654
00:41:36,510 --> 00:41:42,960
mint, the mint is tied to the
mint, the mint can be funded

655
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,920
from anywhere, it just needs a
place to store this, the funds,

656
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,700
right. And that can be either
your own your own lightning

657
00:41:50,700 --> 00:41:55,140
node, it can be a strike wallet,
it can be an Ellen bit server,

658
00:41:55,140 --> 00:41:57,990
it can be many, many things on
the back end, it does not

659
00:41:57,990 --> 00:42:01,710
matter. Because what happens is
when the when the funding goes

660
00:42:01,740 --> 00:42:06,060
out, you spin up a wallet on the
mint. And when you transfer some

661
00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:10,710
funds into the meant it it just
all goes into a number on the

662
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:15,030
back. Yeah, you know, and this
is this is part of the this is

663
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:20,610
part of it because the custodian
ship, custodian ship. You know,

664
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:24,930
it can mean two can mean two
things it can mean you just

665
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,760
possess the ability to you just
possess control over the over

666
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,200
the total balance, or do you
possess control over individual

667
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,190
accounts. And the thing is,
like, right now, this is tied to

668
00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:42,960
my Stripe account. This Mint is
being funded by my Stripe

669
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:43,620
account. That's where

670
00:42:43,620 --> 00:42:45,540
Adam Curry: that's where the
trust part comes in.

671
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,720
Dave Jones: Right. So all I see.
All I see is a number. I have no

672
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:55,560
if if 10 People made wallets on
on this and put stuff in there,

673
00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:59,940
I would have no idea who that I
have no way of knowing. That's

674
00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:04,530
the show the showman. E cash
protocol is that everything's

675
00:43:04,530 --> 00:43:07,560
encrypted. I have no idea whose
money belongs to who anything.

676
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:08,490
It's just a big blob.

677
00:43:08,490 --> 00:43:13,230
Adam Curry: Let me explain. RPP
No, no, no, not no. You only

678
00:43:13,230 --> 00:43:16,920
need you only need one mint.
Yes, you only need you don't

679
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,030
need not everybody has to have a
mint. That's just trust, who do

680
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:24,720
you trust to be your mint? That
and that's

681
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:27,360
Dave Jones: what makes it thief.
That's what makes it fee free is

682
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,960
because it's just, it's just
moving numbers in a database.

683
00:43:32,910 --> 00:43:41,100
You know, like net now I give
you like this, you know, I send

684
00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:46,020
you a voucher which you know I
did in the in the IRC channel, I

685
00:43:46,020 --> 00:43:55,350
send a voucher for 100 Satoshis.
To to you on the mint. Well,

686
00:43:55,350 --> 00:44:00,180
you're, as long as you add that
mint to your wallet. You just

687
00:44:00,210 --> 00:44:03,240
you just get it. It's just
there. Because the funds it's a

688
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:05,880
promise for the redemption of
funds. So So

689
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,910
Adam Curry: RPP if you only
trust yourself, then yes, you

690
00:44:08,910 --> 00:44:12,540
can use your own mint. That's
the beauty of it. We all trust

691
00:44:12,540 --> 00:44:17,130
it Albie, that were great until
I'll be there's not that we

692
00:44:17,130 --> 00:44:20,430
don't trust them. But they
changed the rules. So you still

693
00:44:20,430 --> 00:44:23,580
have to if it's custodial, you
still have to trust someone. So

694
00:44:23,580 --> 00:44:26,520
you are more than welcome to run
your own Mint is actually quite

695
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,780
simple. And you just run it as a
part of your of your node that

696
00:44:30,780 --> 00:44:31,620
you already have.

697
00:44:32,250 --> 00:44:34,950
Dave Jones: But there's a lot of
there's a lot of stuff to work

698
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:39,480
out just to see if this is going
to work to you know, there's a

699
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:40,350
lot of stuff.

700
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,160
Adam Curry: But the beauty of it
is that you don't have to get

701
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,230
you don't have to have a whole
Erin URL type solution. You

702
00:44:49,230 --> 00:44:52,830
could you're just sending you're
just sending a number, which is

703
00:44:52,830 --> 00:44:56,340
what Dave just did in the chat.
So you can transmit that I mean,

704
00:44:56,370 --> 00:45:00,240
you can transmit it through any
type of protocol Yeah.

705
00:45:01,979 --> 00:45:04,679
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's that's
pretty good sir Spencer, he

706
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:07,289
cashed a step between being
noted up and a custodial

707
00:45:07,289 --> 00:45:09,389
lightning. Yeah, I would say
that that's true. That's a good,

708
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:11,040
Adam Curry: that's a good way of
describing it.

709
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,800
Dave Jones: I mean, the way that
I would envision if we can get

710
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,710
something like this to work, the
way that I would envision it

711
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:23,400
working, is a trust. Yeah, the
is the podcasting community, and

712
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:28,530
stakeholders within the podcast
and community, US hosting

713
00:45:28,530 --> 00:45:37,950
companies, podcast apps, anybody
who can, should be a part of a

714
00:45:37,980 --> 00:45:44,100
of the, of owning the mint. So
that it's so that no one parent

715
00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:47,010
so that we don't have to put all
of our trust in one person.

716
00:45:47,610 --> 00:45:52,140
There's a, there's a mint for
pod, there's a podcast mint. And

717
00:45:52,140 --> 00:45:56,970
everybody you know, in, in, it's
held in trust by many different

718
00:45:56,970 --> 00:46:02,760
people who have, who have a
stake in the game. And that

719
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:08,340
ensures trustworthiness. And
then, when everything goes into

720
00:46:08,340 --> 00:46:12,180
that meant, and everything comes
out of that meant, there's no

721
00:46:12,180 --> 00:46:15,660
fees, there's none, there's none
of these problems. That's the

722
00:46:15,660 --> 00:46:17,100
way I envision it working.

723
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,110
Adam Curry: Now, the only thing
I'd say I have a different

724
00:46:19,110 --> 00:46:21,990
vision, because that's very
difficult to do, although this

725
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:26,820
group could actually do it. It
may also be just a good idea to

726
00:46:26,820 --> 00:46:30,870
have multiple mints. It's
transparent. the adding of a

727
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:37,320
mint is is it can be autumn
automatic. And I think a lot of

728
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,980
people would trust their app,
people would trust their hosting

729
00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:45,180
company, or people may trust us.
And you can choose or you can

730
00:46:45,180 --> 00:46:50,490
trust yourself. I think multiple
minutes is not a bad idea. It's

731
00:46:50,490 --> 00:46:55,050
Dave Jones: not it. I just I
feel like in and I don't want to

732
00:46:55,050 --> 00:46:59,970
get too stuck on it. But it just
seems like it does seem that

733
00:46:59,970 --> 00:47:03,750
there has to be a trust factor.
The more people involved in a

734
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:07,110
single Mint is the higher it
just raises the trust level, the

735
00:47:07,110 --> 00:47:09,690
greed, everybody's looking at,
you know, because everybody's

736
00:47:09,690 --> 00:47:14,790
watching it everybody else's
back. So because that, you know,

737
00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:19,620
we we can run it, you know, we
could run a mint. But then then

738
00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:21,300
people have to trust us and

739
00:47:21,390 --> 00:47:23,010
Adam Curry: oh, what a stupid
idea.

740
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,050
Dave Jones: I think they do that
people do trust us, but it's

741
00:47:28,050 --> 00:47:31,530
almost too much. I don't want to
expect that out of people. You

742
00:47:31,530 --> 00:47:34,710
know, I'd rather have somebody a
few other people that are

743
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:37,260
involved who were saying, you
know, yes, everything is on the

744
00:47:37,260 --> 00:47:40,830
up and up and nobody's going to
run off with you know, with all

745
00:47:40,830 --> 00:47:44,340
this money to Mexico or
whatever. It's just it's just

746
00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:48,240
that kind of thing where you're
asking for trust it I feel like

747
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,350
the trust but verify it's the
verification part is when other

748
00:47:52,350 --> 00:47:56,460
people are involved. Anyway,
this I mean, this like lots of

749
00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:59,130
work to do. This is just a test.
I don't know if anybody redeemed

750
00:47:59,130 --> 00:48:00,000
a DUI or redeemed

751
00:48:00,210 --> 00:48:02,550
Adam Curry: I think someone's
that was 184 SATs was that

752
00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:02,880
right?

753
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:04,050
Dave Jones: Yeah.

754
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:05,550
Adam Curry: Someone got it.

755
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,850
Dave Jones: Yeah, they did give
somebody got it. I just see them

756
00:48:08,850 --> 00:48:12,930
I left my wallet. So I have no I
had no idea who it was there's

757
00:48:12,930 --> 00:48:15,630
it's just all blunt. It's all
because of encryption is all

758
00:48:15,630 --> 00:48:20,220
blinded. LSA is just now going
transact chat

759
00:48:20,220 --> 00:48:23,040
Adam Curry: f the, you fund the
mint by putting money into your

760
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,270
wallet. That's literally how it
so you put 1000 SATs into your

761
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:30,270
wallet. You've just funded the
Mint for 1000 SATs when someone

762
00:48:30,270 --> 00:48:35,700
redeems that they get 1000 SATs
in their E cash wallet when they

763
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:38,940
want to send it somewhere else.
There may be a lightning fee if

764
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:42,480
they send that out. But then
that's how that's how it leaves.

765
00:48:43,470 --> 00:48:44,100
So yeah, so

766
00:48:44,100 --> 00:48:47,010
Dave Jones: if you if your
wallet is tied to our mint, and

767
00:48:47,010 --> 00:48:50,670
you transfer 1000 sets and the
balance and my strike wallet

768
00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:53,310
because it's tied as the backend
funding source is gonna go up by

769
00:48:53,310 --> 00:48:56,790
1000 SATs but I don't know that
that's you because I had there's

770
00:48:56,790 --> 00:49:00,210
no date because of the
encryption is all blinded and I

771
00:49:00,210 --> 00:49:02,790
don't know what's what no
challenges I just see the

772
00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:04,440
numbers going up and down so
chat

773
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,900
Adam Curry: f no the mint Yes,
the mint of course needs

774
00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:11,550
liquidity that's why it can be a
node or can be strike strike as

775
00:49:11,550 --> 00:49:14,100
liquidity your own node would
have liquidity.

776
00:49:14,670 --> 00:49:17,520
Dave Jones: But it gets its
liquidity from from the back end

777
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:18,420
funding source Yeah,

778
00:49:18,690 --> 00:49:21,420
Adam Curry: but the actual
sending back and forth requires

779
00:49:21,420 --> 00:49:25,320
no liquidity because you're
talking to this it's centralized

780
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,830
you're talking to the same
server which is why I like

781
00:49:28,830 --> 00:49:32,130
multiple mins because it's still
it all shows up in your in your

782
00:49:32,130 --> 00:49:34,200
E cash wallet as just one
amount.

783
00:49:35,130 --> 00:49:36,990
Dave Jones: The downside of
multiple minutes is you have to

784
00:49:36,990 --> 00:49:39,750
do a min swap which involves a
lightning transaction so there's

785
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:42,630
just more there's just more
likelihood for something to

786
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:47,340
fail. Then you have to do this
advantage. Yeah the I mean the

787
00:49:47,340 --> 00:49:50,250
min swap is Why do lightning
transaction right?

788
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:52,830
Adam Curry: Oh you mean oh if
Yeah. If you if you want to send

789
00:49:52,830 --> 00:49:54,210
it out? Yes. So

790
00:49:54,210 --> 00:49:56,640
Dave Jones: like if the listener
is on one man and the the

791
00:49:56,670 --> 00:49:59,910
podcaster is on a destination
wallets on a different man then

792
00:49:59,910 --> 00:50:01,110
you You have to do a mint swap?

793
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,290
Adam Curry: Right? Well, I think
the idea is the payer by ie the

794
00:50:07,290 --> 00:50:12,780
listener, uses a mint. And that
Mint is then automatically added

795
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,370
to the podcaster. side. I
understand the issue of having

796
00:50:17,370 --> 00:50:20,400
multiple means being a little
more complicated in redeeming to

797
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,650
send that out. But it's not
something that can't be

798
00:50:22,650 --> 00:50:25,020
overcome. Just

799
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,610
Dave Jones: I don't know, it's,
it's so early days, it's just

800
00:50:29,610 --> 00:50:29,940
yeah,

801
00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:32,730
Adam Curry: but the main thing
is what what transpired, I'm

802
00:50:32,730 --> 00:50:36,570
already in my head, I'm already
okay, that part I see the

803
00:50:36,570 --> 00:50:39,600
wallet, the wallet part is
great, because any podcast app

804
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,630
can just throw in some
JavaScript. Here it is, you're

805
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:44,970
good to go. Literally. It's all
of course, it's all open source.

806
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:49,980
Here it is. The transport
protocol is what is interesting

807
00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:56,100
to me. What do we use to send
the tokens from the listener to

808
00:50:56,100 --> 00:50:58,740
the podcaster? Because that was
always through the Lightning

809
00:50:58,740 --> 00:51:04,380
Network. And now Now, there's a
lot of very robust systems. So

810
00:51:04,380 --> 00:51:07,170
that's the next question is what
what do we use that makes it

811
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,150
easy for even apps like Casta
Matic to send this payment with

812
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:16,140
payment information? Thank God,
we'll be rid of the TLV record

813
00:51:16,140 --> 00:51:22,290
Cluj. Because we'll have more
room or space, options, options?

814
00:51:23,460 --> 00:51:25,800
Dave Jones: Well, I don't know.
What's that? See, I mean, like,

815
00:51:25,830 --> 00:51:32,730
it's people need to be know, me,
us. People who are so inclined

816
00:51:32,730 --> 00:51:34,950
need to just play with it.
Because let's just all and I'm

817
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:38,220
going to keep that meant
running, please, please don't,

818
00:51:38,550 --> 00:51:41,550
you know, depend on it. Because
it's, this is all very

819
00:51:41,550 --> 00:51:45,270
experimental. Don't put
important, you know, sets in

820
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:49,260
there that you're not willing to
lose. But But you feel free to

821
00:51:49,260 --> 00:51:51,150
use it for testing. I'm gonna
leave it up and running while

822
00:51:51,150 --> 00:51:55,410
I'm doing testing. So, but just
play, play with me. You can

823
00:51:55,410 --> 00:52:00,300
literally spin up Kashi wallet.
And then with some with a little

824
00:52:00,300 --> 00:52:01,800
bit of JavaScript is not a big
deal.

825
00:52:01,830 --> 00:52:04,140
Adam Curry: Yeah, we'll just go
to cashew.me. And you've got a

826
00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:07,530
wallet right there. Boom, yeah.
You can play with it right away.

827
00:52:07,890 --> 00:52:08,130
So you

828
00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:10,380
Dave Jones: could stick that in
a progressive web app, podcast

829
00:52:10,380 --> 00:52:12,030
player and have all kinds of
fun.

830
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,460
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's another
big benefit. I mean, and I'll

831
00:52:14,460 --> 00:52:18,210
just and then we'll bring in our
guests. I'm just so in the back

832
00:52:18,210 --> 00:52:21,570
of my mind. I keep hearing
activity pub. I don't know why.

833
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,850
Dave Jones: But some payment for
training and transport. Yeah.

834
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:33,420
Yeah. Never transport. Yeah.
Yeah, that means it's, it's it

835
00:52:33,420 --> 00:52:38,640
is a it is a very reasonable
next step. Next place to go, I

836
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:38,970
think.

837
00:52:39,060 --> 00:52:44,610
Adam Curry: And it's a huge pair
of scissors. Oh, it's it's hedge

838
00:52:44,610 --> 00:52:45,630
shears actually.

839
00:52:48,300 --> 00:52:49,710
Dave Jones: Yeah. All

840
00:52:49,710 --> 00:52:51,900
Adam Curry: right. They've
waited long enough. They waited

841
00:52:51,900 --> 00:52:54,750
patiently. We are very happy to
have them here for the third

842
00:52:54,750 --> 00:52:58,830
time in the boardroom. Please
say hello, from rss.com to Ben

843
00:52:58,830 --> 00:53:02,790
Richardson, Alberto batalla.
Everybody.

844
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:04,770
Unknown: Hello, hello.

845
00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:10,530
Adam Curry: Hello. Hello. Hello,
gentlemen. Any, any initial

846
00:53:10,530 --> 00:53:12,060
responses to what you just
heard?

847
00:53:14,550 --> 00:53:21,630
Alberto: I mean, it's complex. I
have to say I was concerned when

848
00:53:21,630 --> 00:53:25,830
I listened to Arby's, the
interview of the guys at RB in

849
00:53:25,830 --> 00:53:30,510
the previous episode, because I
was thinking about as our

850
00:53:30,510 --> 00:53:36,270
company and we launched value
for value in for all our

851
00:53:36,270 --> 00:53:41,730
podcasters exactly two years
ago, July 2022. But precisely

852
00:53:41,730 --> 00:53:44,790
because RB was simplifying the
process and dealing with the

853
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:50,760
complexity in the backend, but
now it's disheartening almost

854
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:56,910
seeing that the regulators are
slowing down progress. And yeah,

855
00:53:56,940 --> 00:54:02,040
when I when I heard you, Adam
offering to pre fill the wallet

856
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,400
to hos wallet, I thought it was
a great gesture, but I also

857
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,180
thought this removes the unique
value proposition of a company

858
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:14,190
like Alby. Imagine they go to
get to VCs, or to get a

859
00:54:14,190 --> 00:54:18,810
convertible note. And they say,
okay, but the Walter fields by

860
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:24,030
by the geyser pot podcast index,
right. So it's kind of it's a

861
00:54:24,030 --> 00:54:26,070
bit of a catch 22 It's complex.

862
00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:30,900
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
I mean, this is a thing that we

863
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:35,280
have to figure out. Yeah. That
was a lot. That was a lot of

864
00:54:35,310 --> 00:54:42,090
complexity there to explain.
Yeah. But it's not. This, this

865
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:48,990
other way of doing things is, I
think, if if if there's two

866
00:54:48,990 --> 00:54:55,530
questions, if it works well, and
people can code to it, and I

867
00:54:55,530 --> 00:55:02,190
think that's very possible. And
the other question is is can it

868
00:55:02,190 --> 00:55:07,500
be that we have a back end
funding source at a regulated

869
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:12,870
entity that will play ball with
us? If that's the case, because

870
00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:17,310
like, we're, what because the
idea here is to have you know, a

871
00:55:17,310 --> 00:55:20,760
meant for podcasting. You people
been saying the whole time,

872
00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:23,580
okay, we Why don't you you
should have like a podcast

873
00:55:23,580 --> 00:55:26,610
token, you know podcast coin or
whatever this kind of thing.

874
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,940
It's exactly what this is. And
nobody Yeah, nobody wants that.

875
00:55:29,940 --> 00:55:33,810
But this, but this sort of is
that thing. So you have you

876
00:55:33,810 --> 00:55:36,480
know, if you have this, if you
have a mint, this this sort of a

877
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,830
trustee of the funds in a
tokenized way, it's a token,

878
00:55:40,830 --> 00:55:43,800
it's a bearer, it's a bearer
instrument is what it is. Yeah.

879
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:50,100
It's like having $1 bill. Yeah.
So you have this, things go into

880
00:55:50,100 --> 00:55:54,300
the into this trusted meant. And
if there's a regulated entity on

881
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:58,800
the back this, this that, like
strike, if we are able to, we're

882
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,470
going to work on opening a
business account with them, and

883
00:56:01,470 --> 00:56:04,890
explaining to them what we
intend to do. You know, be

884
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,380
perfectly honest, here's, here's
what we would like to do, we

885
00:56:07,380 --> 00:56:11,220
would like to have, you know,
amant in this would be the

886
00:56:11,220 --> 00:56:15,750
funding source for it. If that,
if they're willing to do that,

887
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:21,990
to me, that solves many, many
problems. Because everybody now

888
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:26,310
is just, it's just instantaneous
transactions, there's none of

889
00:56:26,310 --> 00:56:28,920
the complexity that we have to
deal with, that we've had to

890
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:29,970
deal with right now,

891
00:56:30,090 --> 00:56:32,070
Adam Curry: what was really
interesting, and in my

892
00:56:32,070 --> 00:56:37,350
onboarding experience to this,
you had the mint set up, I had a

893
00:56:37,350 --> 00:56:39,180
strike account, but I've never
done anything with it. So I

894
00:56:39,180 --> 00:56:42,750
hooked it up to my bank account,
just like you do with Venmo. And

895
00:56:42,750 --> 00:56:48,150
I sent $5, I literally sent $5,
but I didn't send, you know,

896
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:53,790
20,000 sites, I just sent $5 And
it showed up as $5 in my E cash

897
00:56:53,790 --> 00:56:54,180
wallet.

898
00:56:55,230 --> 00:56:57,510
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's the
other thing is is this as a

899
00:56:57,660 --> 00:57:03,720
Ecash is a tokenizing. It
tokenize as any asset so it can

900
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:10,080
it can tokenize Bitcoin, USD, it
anything you can send it into

901
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,870
it, that it will create a
barrier, a barrier to barrier

902
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:17,520
voucher for that thing. What
goes in is what comes out.

903
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,430
Adam Curry: And that was really
pleasurable, because there's

904
00:57:20,430 --> 00:57:26,910
like, Oh, $5, I get it. There
wasn't Satoshis, you know, etc.

905
00:57:26,910 --> 00:57:31,140
In fact, strike shows that as
$5, you've got to be you've got

906
00:57:31,140 --> 00:57:33,870
to physically tap it to make it
turn into SATs.

907
00:57:36,540 --> 00:57:40,470
Dave Jones: Yeah, so, you know,
we, you know, maybe if we can

908
00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:43,170
get if we could get something
like this to work, I think it

909
00:57:43,170 --> 00:57:47,550
was simplified for everybody,
honestly. Yeah. I think every,

910
00:57:47,580 --> 00:57:49,890
you know, everybody would make
it would make something like

911
00:57:49,890 --> 00:57:54,450
what you did with Alby, Alberta
and make it like child's play.

912
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,800
Instead of having to integrate
with their API and this kind of

913
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,370
thing? It would it would really
remove all that complexity from

914
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:08,310
from from the coding aspect. But
I don't know, it's, it's what

915
00:58:08,790 --> 00:58:09,540
we're pushing.

916
00:58:09,570 --> 00:58:11,490
Adam Curry: We're just pushing,
I'm running with scissors. We're

917
00:58:11,490 --> 00:58:12,810
trying to make something happen.

918
00:58:13,620 --> 00:58:13,950
Dave Jones: Yeah,

919
00:58:14,010 --> 00:58:18,450
Alberto: I liked the idea of
vouchers that you discuss just

920
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:26,220
for meaning, if I think of ways
to postpone the issue, for

921
00:58:26,220 --> 00:58:31,980
example, tax or compliance. A
voucher is like phantom shares,

922
00:58:32,340 --> 00:58:36,180
right? It's an alternative
approach. It could be it's based

923
00:58:36,180 --> 00:58:40,500
on trust, but as you said,
before you trust also, whoever

924
00:58:40,620 --> 00:58:44,580
holds the keys to your custodial
Wallet. So that could be also an

925
00:58:44,580 --> 00:58:48,360
option. I don't know exactly how
it would play out. But a promise

926
00:58:48,510 --> 00:58:52,560
a voucher, you know, that could
help send an email just

927
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:55,080
Adam Curry: and what's also nice
about it is you don't have to

928
00:58:55,110 --> 00:58:59,730
have something as online. You
just receive Do you receive this

929
00:58:59,730 --> 00:59:02,700
voucher and you can redeem it
whenever you feel is no time

930
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:03,060
limit.

931
00:59:03,690 --> 00:59:07,980
Alberto: Yet now I'm maybe I'm
overthinking but this could be

932
00:59:07,980 --> 00:59:13,860
an NFT for example, or similar
principle. So no one called a

933
00:59:13,860 --> 00:59:17,910
smart contract where you have an
I'm saying there is a smart

934
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:21,240
contract that regulates this
promise. And you can do

935
00:59:21,630 --> 00:59:25,080
something with what you have you
can sell it you can just cash it

936
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:31,110
in this resonates to me as
possible use of smart contracts

937
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,350
Dave Jones: that's an ad that I
didn't think about because it

938
00:59:34,350 --> 00:59:39,450
because the because the voucher
that cashew voucher is, I mean,

939
00:59:39,450 --> 00:59:42,060
it's fungible. So you could you
could pass it along or somebody

940
00:59:42,060 --> 00:59:43,950
else you wouldn't even count
Yeah, you didn't have to keep it

941
00:59:43,950 --> 00:59:48,960
necessarily. That's it Jen never
thought about that. That's

942
00:59:48,990 --> 00:59:53,130
that's pretty cool. So what you
know, you guys have been busy.

943
00:59:53,250 --> 00:59:55,380
Adam Curry: Yeah, I was gonna
say now most talk about you

944
00:59:55,380 --> 00:59:55,920
guys.

945
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:58,680
Dave Jones: You have been busy.
That's why I wanted to have you

946
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:04,590
on the shows because you're Been
doing a whole bunch? And I mean,

947
01:00:04,620 --> 01:00:09,240
I guess number one is on the
list is the lit, you know, live

948
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:15,000
item tag. Y'all put that in
earlier this year? And I just

949
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,420
want you to, I mean, can you
just tell me how it's going me

950
01:00:18,420 --> 01:00:22,620
you're having live pod AI
podcasters do do live very

951
01:00:22,620 --> 01:00:24,210
often. How popular is that?

952
01:00:25,470 --> 01:00:30,390
Alberto: Okay, so I looked at
the stats before hopping into

953
01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:38,160
this episode. And we had only in
a month, only 30 episodes. But

954
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,600
my sense is that most of them
were tests. So I have to be

955
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:48,060
honest there. And this means we
need to educate more podcasters.

956
01:00:48,270 --> 01:00:52,320
So I guess they're released per
se made it simple, created a

957
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,580
simple interface to start a Live
episode. But it takes also a lot

958
01:00:56,580 --> 01:01:00,930
of applications for podcasters
to, you know, to be able to

959
01:01:00,990 --> 01:01:06,750
really leverage these new this
new way of podcasting, if you

960
01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:10,500
want, which is actually back to
the old radio. It's live, you

961
01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:13,950
can interact, you can. It's
exciting. I think we have to

962
01:01:13,950 --> 01:01:14,610
work on that.

963
01:01:14,910 --> 01:01:17,610
Adam Curry: When you when you
spin up a live stream for

964
01:01:17,610 --> 01:01:21,870
someone for a live episode. Does
that include a a chat mechanism?

965
01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:24,540
Or is that something that people
have to bring themselves?

966
01:01:25,170 --> 01:01:28,260
Alberto: Not yet it doesn't
include the chat mechanism, we

967
01:01:28,260 --> 01:01:32,820
we thought about the end to end
process. And as usual, when we

968
01:01:32,820 --> 01:01:37,680
have to decide how to roll out a
feature, we split it into

969
01:01:37,710 --> 01:01:42,990
milestones or deliverables. So
we did the minimum viable

970
01:01:42,990 --> 01:01:47,160
implementation now where it's
very easy to start the episode

971
01:01:47,910 --> 01:01:53,370
to schedule a start and end, but
nothing else. And we thought a

972
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,160
when we see a bit of uptake, we
are going to invest more time.

973
01:01:56,190 --> 01:01:57,180
So not yet.

974
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,750
Adam Curry: Because just as
someone who's been live

975
01:02:00,750 --> 01:02:06,510
streaming, while recording, for
we know it for 15 years, I think

976
01:02:07,650 --> 01:02:13,200
that the the chat is such a
necessary component, I

977
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,900
understand what you're saying
about the rollout is just that,

978
01:02:16,020 --> 01:02:18,840
that's what really brings it
alive. If you look at no agenda

979
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:24,000
stream, that's, you know, that's
that's not a 24 hour stream.

980
01:02:24,900 --> 01:02:29,280
People pop in, they grab control
of the stream, the bat signal

981
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,910
goes out through pod paying
people know to open up their app

982
01:02:32,940 --> 01:02:36,990
to check in, boom, they're in a
chat. And you know, then all it

983
01:02:36,990 --> 01:02:39,570
really comes alive when you have
the boost bot and all these

984
01:02:39,570 --> 01:02:42,330
things happening in there. It's
really a it's really an

985
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:43,950
essential component, I feel.

986
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,480
Ben Richardson: Yeah, yeah. I
mean, we see that even here

987
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,050
today, right? I mean, you guys
were looking at the chat, as you

988
01:02:52,050 --> 01:02:55,980
talked about all these different
implementations and certainly

989
01:02:56,340 --> 01:02:59,250
added a little bit more interest
to me as I was about falling

990
01:02:59,250 --> 01:03:00,660
asleep out of my chair.

991
01:03:00,750 --> 01:03:04,590
Adam Curry: Oh, please. Oh, I
can no blase. Oh, all right.

992
01:03:06,270 --> 01:03:08,940
Bernie, seriously, quiet down
there.

993
01:03:10,590 --> 01:03:14,310
Ben Richardson: Yeah, seriously.
We hear your date, Adam. And

994
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,460
and, you know, there you have
the benefit of not only the

995
01:03:17,490 --> 01:03:21,660
years of experience, but you do
see ahead. I mean, I think

996
01:03:21,660 --> 01:03:24,600
you're probably 10 years ahead
of everybody else. In many

997
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,250
aspects. That's why I'm poor.

998
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,660
Adam Curry: Everybody else,
everybody else off with the

999
01:03:30,660 --> 01:03:33,240
great ideas after 10 years and
makes a billion Oh,

1000
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,330
Unknown: trust me. I've got like
three notes here already on how

1001
01:03:36,330 --> 01:03:38,940
we're gonna make tons of money
off of your ideas in about eight

1002
01:03:38,940 --> 01:03:39,390
years.

1003
01:03:40,620 --> 01:03:43,140
Dave Jones: You put a reminder
on your phone. Yeah, remind.

1004
01:03:43,650 --> 01:03:45,090
Remind me 2032

1005
01:03:45,630 --> 01:03:48,360
Alberto: We just filed the
patent right now. Real time.

1006
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:57,840
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's, I
think. I feel like I feel like

1007
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,390
the testing part is good,
though. Because when people do

1008
01:04:00,390 --> 01:04:03,210
it, they realize it's not as
scary maybe as they is they

1009
01:04:03,210 --> 01:04:07,470
think, yeah, I was scared. I was
scared to do a live show until

1010
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:12,990
until Adam, you know, you
brought it up and it's really

1011
01:04:12,990 --> 01:04:17,550
not that bad. And it's you learn
not to have to do it a couple of

1012
01:04:17,550 --> 01:04:20,640
times you learn not to be well
let's mistake

1013
01:04:20,670 --> 01:04:24,450
Adam Curry: Let's recall the
history of podcasting The reason

1014
01:04:24,630 --> 01:04:28,020
Okay, so here's what happened. I
come from radio, you walk into

1015
01:04:28,020 --> 01:04:31,680
the studio, it's top of the hour
gotta go boom, alright, you

1016
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:36,420
start you go, you roll you
broadcast. With podcasting. We

1017
01:04:36,450 --> 01:04:41,400
did not have the equipment, the
processing, the I mean, we had

1018
01:04:41,430 --> 01:04:46,230
musicians, mixers, but that's
pretty much all that we had. So

1019
01:04:46,410 --> 01:04:49,860
it was very complicated, you
know, back in the day, before

1020
01:04:49,860 --> 01:04:53,040
everyone knows how to do a mix
minus we did the magical double

1021
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,190
ender. So I'm going to talk to
you and I think it was maybe

1022
01:04:56,190 --> 01:05:00,870
Skype in the beginning and with
the quality was so bad. that you

1023
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:05,310
eat everyone record each on
their own side, and then you

1024
01:05:05,670 --> 01:05:09,600
meld those two together. Then we
created a whole industry where

1025
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:15,360
people record and then we have
like these you know Phil Spector

1026
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:18,750
Wall of Sound people to whole
new category come in and, and

1027
01:05:18,750 --> 01:05:22,590
they're the podcast editor. And
then of course, from that we got

1028
01:05:22,890 --> 01:05:26,340
people chopping out the herbs
and the arms and the stutters

1029
01:05:26,340 --> 01:05:31,020
and editing and for my money,
completely taking the life out

1030
01:05:31,020 --> 01:05:34,680
of a podcast. But it's was
really a technical reason that

1031
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,340
we were all doing post
production. And now there's

1032
01:05:38,340 --> 01:05:41,130
enough gear out there that
everybody can do with live

1033
01:05:41,130 --> 01:05:46,290
productions is really just a
mindset. But also, when you

1034
01:05:46,290 --> 01:05:49,890
bring the listening audience in,
and it's always just a studio

1035
01:05:49,890 --> 01:05:54,660
audience. It's always a subset,
but it really brings energy into

1036
01:05:54,660 --> 01:05:58,380
every podcast, it's amazing how
much energy it brings in.

1037
01:06:00,540 --> 01:06:06,300
Dave Jones: Agreed? Yeah, when
does what is your? How does your

1038
01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:09,660
CES, what are you doing? If you
can reveal anything about it?

1039
01:06:09,660 --> 01:06:13,110
Are they are you spinning up
sort of live icecast type

1040
01:06:13,110 --> 01:06:17,220
servers are on demand? How are
you making that work?

1041
01:06:17,820 --> 01:06:22,170
Alberto: Okay, so that's also
possibly the current friction we

1042
01:06:22,170 --> 01:06:25,920
are having in terms of usage, we
are not dealing with that part

1043
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:30,120
yet. We are not. So you have to
find your own. You have to, to

1044
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:34,110
have your own server to the
interface makes it super easy.

1045
01:06:34,140 --> 01:06:38,430
You just click go on air, but
you have to schedule this live

1046
01:06:38,430 --> 01:06:43,080
episode, you have to paste the
URL of the RTMP server.

1047
01:06:44,310 --> 01:06:47,430
Dave Jones: Okay, okay. So
you're saying that might be some

1048
01:06:47,430 --> 01:06:51,060
of the some of the resistance
maybe because it's, it requires

1049
01:06:51,060 --> 01:06:52,890
that extra step? Yes.

1050
01:06:52,890 --> 01:06:55,920
Alberto: But we thought about
that we thought about a chant.

1051
01:06:56,190 --> 01:07:03,090
And really the, the, the issue
is that possible is a brand new

1052
01:07:03,090 --> 01:07:06,630
product really, you you would
want for these to take off and

1053
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:10,530
to be used massively, a one stop
shop a product where you can

1054
01:07:10,530 --> 01:07:14,760
even record video. So your
video, you have the streaming

1055
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:19,200
server, and you have everything
behind the scenes, and you just

1056
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,230
click a button and you go on
air. That's why where when we

1057
01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:27,690
had to decide whether to launch
a good decent support for late

1058
01:07:27,780 --> 01:07:34,470
in our UI. Or really launched a
one stop shop in, in one year

1059
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:38,190
from now. We thought we would
launch something smaller, but

1060
01:07:38,190 --> 01:07:42,630
sooner to start, you know,
educating and giving awareness

1061
01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:46,440
providing this this tool for
everyone, I have to say we we

1062
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:51,210
were courageous in our UI, in
our opinion, because, you know,

1063
01:07:51,210 --> 01:07:56,160
we have one big orange button in
our dashboard, which said until

1064
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:01,440
recently, new episode. Now it's
just called New when you think

1065
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,620
you have episode or Live
episodes. So that's, that's our

1066
01:08:04,650 --> 01:08:08,400
was our, our attempt to educate
users. That now is the Live

1067
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,950
episode is one of the two
options. And it's a big choice

1068
01:08:10,950 --> 01:08:14,010
for us, we never touch these
very important parts of our

1069
01:08:14,010 --> 01:08:17,640
finance. So yeah, we have a
long, long way to go. But we are

1070
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:22,260
much better place than other
hosting companies that do not

1071
01:08:22,260 --> 01:08:26,190
offer this kind of support or
don't make the UI easy. So

1072
01:08:26,190 --> 01:08:29,670
prices are tested product market
fit in the short term. And still

1073
01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:31,170
we are going to keep building,
how are

1074
01:08:31,170 --> 01:08:34,320
Adam Curry: you marketing this?
I mean, how can we assist? How

1075
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:38,700
can we help with that? How can
we help people see what this is?

1076
01:08:39,630 --> 01:08:39,870
Well,

1077
01:08:39,899 --> 01:08:43,349
Alberto: the way we market all
of our features, usually we we

1078
01:08:43,349 --> 01:08:47,369
tend to create content obviously
in our blog and knowledge base.

1079
01:08:47,519 --> 01:08:51,239
In our knowledge base. We have
for instance a very detailed but

1080
01:08:51,239 --> 01:08:56,249
simple how to that includes this
spinning up a server with a with

1081
01:08:56,249 --> 01:09:01,589
a service that offers one hour
for free. But really when we see

1082
01:09:01,619 --> 01:09:05,909
people understanding the future
is when we offer workshops, and

1083
01:09:05,909 --> 01:09:10,949
I'm not saying you have to you
know to hold a workshop, but for

1084
01:09:10,949 --> 01:09:15,149
instance yesterday we had a
workshop on value for value and

1085
01:09:15,449 --> 01:09:20,129
we'd fountain and it was pretty
good. So workshops and these

1086
01:09:20,129 --> 01:09:24,659
kinds of live events that then
we can send as the recordings.

1087
01:09:24,929 --> 01:09:27,419
They help a lot uptaken of
features. So we didn't do

1088
01:09:27,419 --> 01:09:30,329
anything yet because we launched
it less than one month ago.

1089
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:33,210
Adam Curry: I guess just getting
started. Yeah. Yes.

1090
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:38,430
Dave Jones: I think it's so
important that to me live is one

1091
01:09:38,430 --> 01:09:42,600
of the most important things
about podcasting 2.0 Even if not

1092
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:48,210
a whole lot of people use it
right now. Because it it shows

1093
01:09:48,210 --> 01:09:54,330
that RSS can be the can be just
as powerful the distribution

1094
01:09:54,330 --> 01:09:59,070
mechanism as YouTube or anything
else. Like it. Absolutely. It

1095
01:09:59,070 --> 01:10:04,020
puts RSS on On par with, with
every other proprietary platform

1096
01:10:05,279 --> 01:10:10,229
Unknown: Brian keeps them from
from capturing maybe is a better

1097
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:12,479
way to look at it, at least from
our perspective, what we don't

1098
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:17,069
want is people capturing or
closed companies capturing

1099
01:10:17,069 --> 01:10:21,179
aspects of podcasting that could
have been open as we moved

1100
01:10:21,179 --> 01:10:24,689
faster. Yeah. So that's, that's
one of the reasons why we

1101
01:10:24,809 --> 01:10:27,809
definitely went after lit. I
mean, we do see so much value

1102
01:10:28,499 --> 01:10:34,319
potential in doing this, and and
listen early days, you're right.

1103
01:10:34,349 --> 01:10:37,889
It's early days, we still have
more features to roll out

1104
01:10:37,919 --> 01:10:41,699
associated with this product,
getting our MTP server

1105
01:10:42,239 --> 01:10:45,449
definitely is going to be one of
those key moments where we feel

1106
01:10:45,449 --> 01:10:50,369
like we turn things up a little
bit. And certainly in the works,

1107
01:10:50,369 --> 01:10:54,479
I don't want to say soon, but
it'll be, you know, the next

1108
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:54,839
step.

1109
01:10:54,990 --> 01:10:57,180
Adam Curry: How is how's
business in general, if you

1110
01:10:57,180 --> 01:11:00,330
don't mind sharing? What are you
seeing? Are you seeing churn?

1111
01:11:00,330 --> 01:11:04,170
Are you seeing people, new
people coming in? What What's

1112
01:11:04,170 --> 01:11:05,370
the general overview?

1113
01:11:06,030 --> 01:11:09,360
Unknown: Well, so I mean, we
have to acknowledge that COVID

1114
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,180
was the best thing that happened
to podcasting, not only us, but

1115
01:11:12,180 --> 01:11:12,360
to the

1116
01:11:12,690 --> 01:11:20,100
Adam Curry: COVID, bird flu,
bird flu. Fever.

1117
01:11:21,930 --> 01:11:25,290
Unknown: But, so definitely,
that was unprecedented growth.

1118
01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:30,480
But we I mean, the whole, the
whole concept of podcasting is

1119
01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:35,010
still, you know, in its growth
phase, we're still continuing to

1120
01:11:35,010 --> 01:11:42,210
see a lot of uptake.
International, here in the US. I

1121
01:11:42,210 --> 01:11:46,350
mean, we as a company are very
happy with how we're doing, we

1122
01:11:46,350 --> 01:11:50,610
continue to grow, we continue to
do the best we can to attract

1123
01:11:50,610 --> 01:11:56,250
new users keep those that are
around. And, yeah, I mean,

1124
01:11:56,670 --> 01:12:00,660
certainly, it's, it's, it's good
to be us, because we feel like

1125
01:12:00,660 --> 01:12:03,960
we're doing a really good job at
satisfying what demand is out

1126
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:04,200
there.

1127
01:12:04,260 --> 01:12:06,990
Adam Curry: What do you think of
some of the new medium types

1128
01:12:06,990 --> 01:12:10,890
that we, you know, slowly, very,
very slowly are starting to drip

1129
01:12:10,890 --> 01:12:16,440
in audio books, courses, stuff
like that? I don't know, if you

1130
01:12:16,440 --> 01:12:18,990
provide for any different medium
types? What are your thoughts on

1131
01:12:18,990 --> 01:12:19,350
that?

1132
01:12:20,790 --> 01:12:25,260
Unknown: You know, not not yet.
But early on, I remember coming

1133
01:12:25,590 --> 01:12:29,850
to Alberta in a meeting saying,
Man, we just, let's do

1134
01:12:29,850 --> 01:12:34,140
audiobooks. Those are so great.
Like I love a good audio book.

1135
01:12:34,140 --> 01:12:38,280
And so we've looked at that,
having the medium tag that would

1136
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:43,470
designate that and allow for a
better UI, I think is fantastic.

1137
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:47,790
Is it in our roadmap now? No, no
matter how excited I get about

1138
01:12:47,790 --> 01:12:51,870
something, I was really good at
keeping the course really

1139
01:12:51,870 --> 01:12:53,880
straight and true. But yeah,

1140
01:12:55,170 --> 01:12:57,780
Alberto: yeah. So there was a
moment in which we ban we

1141
01:12:57,780 --> 01:13:01,260
thought we should just launch
music, you know, we should just

1142
01:13:02,070 --> 01:13:06,690
adopt and accept music as well
as a format. But then, when you

1143
01:13:06,690 --> 01:13:10,020
step back, we, we actually had
the brainstorming with our

1144
01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:16,230
product. person in our diner, we
sat down. And really, it meant

1145
01:13:16,260 --> 01:13:20,400
changing the main workflow that
onboards our users prior to

1146
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:27,030
them, signing up for a plan. And
it's, it's an important step and

1147
01:13:27,060 --> 01:13:30,840
pass music, for instance, could
have complications in different

1148
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:35,070
jurisdictions, especially
foreign jurisdictions. So I

1149
01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:40,800
just, yeah, Ben was much more
excited than me. Because I was

1150
01:13:40,950 --> 01:13:43,710
already thinking about the
issues. That's the problem. My

1151
01:13:43,710 --> 01:13:46,950
problem is when Ben comes with
these ideas, they are great. But

1152
01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:49,440
then or anything, okay, I'm
gonna change the funnel, or

1153
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:52,800
we're gonna lose users. So I
let's say sometimes he's top

1154
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,050
down and bottom up so

1155
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,400
Dave Jones: long in the US call
you a Debbie Downer Debbie

1156
01:14:01,860 --> 01:14:03,270
Alberto: was party pooper. But

1157
01:14:07,620 --> 01:14:09,780
Unknown: I don't I don't want
anybody to get the impression

1158
01:14:09,780 --> 01:14:12,480
that Alberto is one of those
typical type of tech guys that

1159
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:16,380
looks for a reason not to do
something. He's 100% on board

1160
01:14:16,380 --> 01:14:20,940
and he doesn't temper my
enthusiasm until he's spoken

1161
01:14:20,940 --> 01:14:24,720
with the team until he's really
gathered all the inputs. And and

1162
01:14:24,810 --> 01:14:27,900
at least half the time, if not
more, he's like, yep, doable.

1163
01:14:27,900 --> 01:14:29,700
This is how we're going to do
it. It's going to be awesome.

1164
01:14:29,850 --> 01:14:34,470
And he takes the reins and go so
it certainly does add a large

1165
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:39,240
dose of reality to my sort of,
you know, Field of Dreams, but

1166
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,430
he doesn't quash any dreams for
sure.

1167
01:14:41,910 --> 01:14:45,720
Alberto: Yeah, I have to say I
haven't coded really for a while

1168
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,240
for a long while, because we
have everyone in the team is

1169
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:53,580
much better than me. So, you
know, but the problem of I think

1170
01:14:53,580 --> 01:14:58,650
that I'm a builder at heart. So
whatever we talk about, it's

1171
01:14:58,650 --> 01:15:02,910
good start from this Adeje
standpoint, but when he then put

1172
01:15:02,910 --> 01:15:06,420
it down and thinks, Okay, what's
the next step? That's a reality

1173
01:15:06,420 --> 01:15:09,330
check. And that that's that
layer or sometimes between Ben

1174
01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:09,690
and I.

1175
01:15:11,099 --> 01:15:14,399
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's always
that tension between when you're

1176
01:15:14,429 --> 01:15:18,299
when you're, when you're a
developer or builder coder, you

1177
01:15:18,299 --> 01:15:23,399
want to build things. But then
there's a tension with is this.

1178
01:15:23,849 --> 01:15:28,679
Is it realistic? Oh, like, what?
Step two? How do we connect this

1179
01:15:28,679 --> 01:15:31,259
to the thing that we're already
doing? Like, there's all these

1180
01:15:31,259 --> 01:15:34,109
things that temper the the
excitement?

1181
01:15:34,140 --> 01:15:37,140
Adam Curry: We understand that
relationship day very well.

1182
01:15:38,610 --> 01:15:41,400
Dave Jones: Basically, yeah.
Adams, like, let's do it, you

1183
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:41,760
know, like,

1184
01:15:43,950 --> 01:15:46,500
Adam Curry: nine times out of 10
gave goes, Okay.

1185
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:53,610
Alberto: What what I do, what I
do is I, when this happens, I

1186
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:59,820
add card, a task in the backlog
that now is probably is going to

1187
01:15:59,820 --> 01:16:05,160
be completed in 2029. So I tell
Ben, yeah, we put it in the

1188
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:06,570
backlog. We're gonna get back to

1189
01:16:06,570 --> 01:16:09,720
Adam Curry: this in the backlog.
Yeah. That's

1190
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,120
Unknown: how Adam ended up 10
years in the future is his

1191
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,280
backlog? That's right. Yes.
Right.

1192
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,460
Dave Jones: Yeah. That's right.
To Do List. Yes. It's the

1193
01:16:17,460 --> 01:16:18,570
magical to do list.

1194
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,270
Adam Curry: I mean, I literally
had a podcast network that I

1195
01:16:21,270 --> 01:16:24,810
should have been able to sell
the Spotify, but I was exactly

1196
01:16:25,470 --> 01:16:26,520
10 years too early.

1197
01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:32,370
Dave Jones: Yeah, you're in the
wrong the wrong time. Just

1198
01:16:32,370 --> 01:16:34,740
Unknown: wait till Coca Cola and
all the rest of the advertisers

1199
01:16:34,740 --> 01:16:37,830
get ahold of your minutes idea.
And they start paying listeners

1200
01:16:37,830 --> 01:16:41,430
in Satoshis to not skip the ads.
It's going to be one of those

1201
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:43,290
things that that'll happen.
That's a very,

1202
01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:46,350
Adam Curry: that's a very
interesting point. What

1203
01:16:46,350 --> 01:16:50,220
Dave Jones: did you think about
this, I read Adweek had a thing,

1204
01:16:50,460 --> 01:16:55,320
an article this week about Time
Magazine, dropping their

1205
01:16:55,500 --> 01:17:02,100
paywall, and this whole the
whole podcasting relationship to

1206
01:17:02,100 --> 01:17:06,870
advertising in relation to the
broader market, and have been

1207
01:17:06,870 --> 01:17:10,650
your, you know, your business
guy you love economics and

1208
01:17:10,650 --> 01:17:13,890
business stuff. And I just
wonder, like, I think what we

1209
01:17:13,890 --> 01:17:18,030
saw with Spotify is fine with
their earnings when they're

1210
01:17:18,030 --> 01:17:22,440
finally turned profitable, was
that it was very clear that they

1211
01:17:22,440 --> 01:17:25,320
just make so much more money off
subscribers, and then they do

1212
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:28,770
off advertising. Advertising is
a very small part of their

1213
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:33,060
overall revenue. And, like I was
reading this article about Time

1214
01:17:33,060 --> 01:17:36,690
Magazine and dropping their
paywall, and it said, this quote

1215
01:17:36,690 --> 01:17:39,630
stuck out to me said the time
model cannot be easily

1216
01:17:39,630 --> 01:17:44,040
replicated. It has the benefit
of billionaire ownership, which

1217
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,130
provides a financial buffer that
few others enjoy. It also has

1218
01:17:47,130 --> 01:17:50,850
more than century of accrued
brand equity, which has enabled

1219
01:17:50,850 --> 01:17:53,280
it to branch into lines of
business like events,

1220
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:56,310
franchises, and awards which
draw much of their appeal from

1221
01:17:56,310 --> 01:17:59,850
the authority of its logo. And I
just thought like, because it

1222
01:17:59,850 --> 01:18:03,390
said that ad they dropped their
subscription, excuse me their

1223
01:18:03,390 --> 01:18:06,750
pipe paywall model and we'll try
to beef up advertising but

1224
01:18:06,750 --> 01:18:11,340
advertising is really only grown
like 14%. So low, very low

1225
01:18:11,340 --> 01:18:12,090
double digit it

1226
01:18:12,090 --> 01:18:14,610
Adam Curry: didn't didn't New
York Times just announced

1227
01:18:14,610 --> 01:18:16,770
they're going to put their
podcast behind a paywall.

1228
01:18:17,940 --> 01:18:20,730
Unknown: Yeah, that was the that
was in the news. Yeah, yeah,

1229
01:18:20,730 --> 01:18:24,810
Dave Jones: that seems to be
like a, like a dual strategy of

1230
01:18:25,470 --> 01:18:29,130
like the daily there pay walling
the archive, which nobody ever

1231
01:18:29,130 --> 01:18:35,130
listens to anyway. And then with
cereal, they're windowing. So

1232
01:18:35,130 --> 01:18:37,770
they're doing an initial paywall
for a few days and then

1233
01:18:37,770 --> 01:18:43,680
releasing, releasing it out
there. So New York Times and

1234
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:46,830
Times New York Times is doing
sort of the opposite of what

1235
01:18:46,830 --> 01:18:49,200
time is doing. They're going all
in on their subscription.

1236
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:53,580
paywall stuff. Time is opening
it up. And I just, it seems in

1237
01:18:53,580 --> 01:18:59,400
both, to ME TIME magazine seems
to be able to do that. Based on

1238
01:18:59,430 --> 01:19:02,040
the fact that like this thing
said they have billionaire

1239
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:06,240
ownership, they really don't
have to have their their

1240
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:10,080
business is not threatened. If
they don't make if they don't

1241
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:13,410
make their their revenue
targets. New York Times doesn't

1242
01:19:13,410 --> 01:19:16,050
really have that luxury. So the
New

1243
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:19,560
Adam Curry: York Times is a
bonanza because no one's paying

1244
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:24,090
for news. They're paying for
Wordle. Literally, it's

1245
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:27,930
literally it's it's it's funded
by Wordle. That's how the New

1246
01:19:27,930 --> 01:19:32,190
York everyone knows it. It's the
big joke in the news business.

1247
01:19:33,090 --> 01:19:35,820
Dave Jones: By no you don't do
No, you don't do ad, you don't

1248
01:19:35,850 --> 01:19:38,400
you know, you're not an
advertising focused hosting

1249
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,820
company. But I mean, do you have
thoughts on where that where the

1250
01:19:41,820 --> 01:19:44,700
whole advertising model is right
now? Well,

1251
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:49,740
Unknown: let me jump in and say
that the revenue model really is

1252
01:19:49,830 --> 01:19:53,160
or should be dictated by the
cost structure. So if you're

1253
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:57,300
Time magazine and you have, you
know, 500 Reporters across the

1254
01:19:57,300 --> 01:20:00,000
world that you're paying salary
and health benefits to you

1255
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,530
You're, you're gonna need a
different cost structure revenue

1256
01:20:04,530 --> 01:20:08,400
sort of model than, then, you
know, a little podcast hosting

1257
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:14,550
company like us. So how they
choose to pivot would have the

1258
01:20:14,550 --> 01:20:16,980
benefit of the financial models
that they can build that say,

1259
01:20:16,980 --> 01:20:19,440
okay, look, this is what we know
we can do in the market. And

1260
01:20:19,440 --> 01:20:22,740
this is what we know, you know,
based on our best projections,

1261
01:20:22,740 --> 01:20:27,570
this attrition rate or what have
you the CPM model. And I think a

1262
01:20:27,570 --> 01:20:31,710
lot of companies don't bother to
do the math, they just kind of

1263
01:20:31,710 --> 01:20:35,100
say, Listen, we've been around
for 80 years, and, you know,

1264
01:20:35,130 --> 01:20:38,430
revenue keeps declining, let's
try something new and spice it

1265
01:20:38,430 --> 01:20:41,520
up and go and keep our revenue
model the same. And, you know,

1266
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:45,300
how do we drive subscriptions?
But I don't want to say that one

1267
01:20:45,330 --> 01:20:48,750
is, is better than another, it
just depends on where's the

1268
01:20:48,750 --> 01:20:51,990
money going, once it comes in?
And how fast does it go out. And

1269
01:20:52,260 --> 01:20:54,660
each company is going to have a
different sort of thing. So like

1270
01:20:54,660 --> 01:20:58,110
the New York Times model, it's
really cool in my mind that

1271
01:20:58,110 --> 01:21:01,590
they're able to segment their
buyers, and maybe squeeze a

1272
01:21:01,590 --> 01:21:04,530
little bit more money out of
people that find a lot of

1273
01:21:04,530 --> 01:21:07,530
benefit. And in being the first
to know you know, the next

1274
01:21:07,530 --> 01:21:11,100
episode and serial or, or go
back and listen to the daily for

1275
01:21:11,100 --> 01:21:16,200
whatever reason, they would do
that. And so each each listener

1276
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,620
or each listener kind of segment
is going to have different

1277
01:21:19,620 --> 01:21:23,490
aspects and different values to
the to the people creating the

1278
01:21:23,490 --> 01:21:29,370
content. So I don't think
there's a best that can be like

1279
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:33,600
a blanket, I think it's very
unique to prove they attracted

1280
01:21:33,630 --> 01:21:38,310
to use their product, and out of
those people prefer to pay. So

1281
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,630
some, some people may prefer to
pay with their time and

1282
01:21:42,630 --> 01:21:45,090
attention and not with their
wallet. So they're going to be

1283
01:21:45,090 --> 01:21:48,510
better for advertisers. Other
people prefer not to pay with

1284
01:21:48,510 --> 01:21:51,300
their time and attention. They
prefer to pay with their wallets

1285
01:21:51,300 --> 01:21:55,770
and get straight to the you
know, the nuts. So I think

1286
01:21:55,770 --> 01:21:59,910
there's just different segments.
And it's smart as a business to

1287
01:21:59,910 --> 01:22:02,220
look at those segments and say,
How can we give them exactly

1288
01:22:02,220 --> 01:22:06,780
what they want? And they can
give us exactly what they need

1289
01:22:06,780 --> 01:22:09,690
to so it's a value for value
model, but not in the good

1290
01:22:09,690 --> 01:22:13,530
sense. It's, it's more than just
the I'm sorry, Adam to have like

1291
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:17,280
blasting that term. But, you
know, it is kind of like, well,

1292
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:19,860
how are they wanting to return
the value? And for some people,

1293
01:22:19,860 --> 01:22:25,260
it's time and attention and not,
you know, subscription is

1294
01:22:25,290 --> 01:22:28,620
Adam Curry: just arsis.com offer
subscription solutions?

1295
01:22:29,910 --> 01:22:33,630
Unknown: You mean, like private,
private podcast? Yeah. No, we

1296
01:22:33,630 --> 01:22:36,390
haven't gotten into I mean, it's
on the roads and the backlog

1297
01:22:36,450 --> 01:22:37,350
since backlog

1298
01:22:37,410 --> 01:22:43,560
Adam Curry: is 2029. I mean,
there's just no doubt that the

1299
01:22:43,710 --> 01:22:46,530
end particularly in in the
economy, which we discussed

1300
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:49,950
earlier, multiple subscriptions
is just very, very, is gonna be

1301
01:22:49,950 --> 01:22:52,050
very challenging, very
competitive. Look at the

1302
01:22:52,050 --> 01:22:56,010
streaming services. Yeah, it's
very competitive, very hard to

1303
01:22:56,010 --> 01:22:57,060
make it profitable.

1304
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:01,500
Unknown: Yeah, and people try
that bundle. And it doesn't

1305
01:23:01,500 --> 01:23:04,710
work. Typically. I mean, there's
yeah, there's a lot of angst, I

1306
01:23:04,710 --> 01:23:08,040
think. And, but But again, it
goes, it goes to me anyway, it

1307
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:11,790
goes like to the infrastructure
supporting the money making

1308
01:23:13,020 --> 01:23:16,200
business, and sometimes those
people have built out too much,

1309
01:23:16,230 --> 01:23:21,300
they're not nimble enough to,
to, you know, limit their size

1310
01:23:21,300 --> 01:23:25,740
or to get new technologies that
can allow them to do more with

1311
01:23:25,740 --> 01:23:29,640
less, it's just, but that's what
it's going to take in this

1312
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:30,120
economy for

1313
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:34,560
Dave Jones: sure. What I've
noticed recently is we watch a

1314
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:42,540
lot of YouTube, and just
different shows. And the the ad

1315
01:23:42,540 --> 01:23:46,290
load on YouTube is just
unbearable, it is just

1316
01:23:46,290 --> 01:23:51,750
unbearable. Like, yeah, that
they seem to be forcing. I don't

1317
01:23:51,750 --> 01:23:54,840
know any other way to think
about it, other than they seem

1318
01:23:54,840 --> 01:24:01,800
to be forcing you to go into a
subscription. Because it's, it

1319
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,770
is. I mean, when people complain
about the volume of ads on

1320
01:24:04,770 --> 01:24:09,030
radio, if you if you add up the
number of ads you're seeing on a

1321
01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:14,850
typical 20 to 30 minute minutes
of YouTube. Oh, it's It's on?

1322
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,920
It's just unwatchable. Almost.
Yeah, yeah. Every time. You

1323
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,110
Unknown: added the right word,
right. At the end of their day,

1324
01:24:22,140 --> 01:24:26,760
almost. I mean, they have like,
to the millisecond determined

1325
01:24:27,090 --> 01:24:31,350
what someone's tolerance level
is, and they take you right up

1326
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:34,560
to that limit. So that's why
that's why you're still watching

1327
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:38,790
those YouTube videos is the but
as a collective, I mean, not you

1328
01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:41,940
in particular, but they do watch
and they do understand, like,

1329
01:24:41,970 --> 01:24:45,540
oh, this person abandoned, like,
we did that too much. Let's dial

1330
01:24:45,540 --> 01:24:49,500
it back a little bit. And they,
they're so good. I guess

1331
01:24:49,500 --> 01:24:53,520
extracting as much as they can
for their own purposes, but they

1332
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:57,270
extract as much as they can
without losing people.

1333
01:24:57,780 --> 01:25:02,040
Dave Jones: It's just it's so
it's so so Dick. I mean, that's

1334
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:04,920
the mindset. You have to have to
go do something like that is

1335
01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:11,010
how, how much can we annoy our
audience? Oh, yeah. With us, but

1336
01:25:11,010 --> 01:25:14,370
they don't, but not so much that
they leave. It's

1337
01:25:14,370 --> 01:25:17,520
Unknown: matchmakers. Yeah. It's
awful. Yeah.

1338
01:25:19,140 --> 01:25:22,440
Dave Jones: But I don't want
that to happen. I just said,

1339
01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:25,500
Then I said, then the sort of
like the juxtaposition of that

1340
01:25:26,070 --> 01:25:31,230
was, my wife listens to the Dana
Gould, our he's a comedian,

1341
01:25:31,710 --> 01:25:35,040
podcast. And she sent me an
episode of that she's like,

1342
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:37,770
here, you're like this. Some
this got to do with like, the

1343
01:25:37,770 --> 01:25:41,850
CIA and stuff. So she sent it to
me. And then I asked her listen

1344
01:25:41,850 --> 01:25:44,970
to it. And he in within the
first minute, he's like, you

1345
01:25:44,970 --> 01:25:49,860
know, we don't do ads. per se,
yeah, we're, we're, essentially

1346
01:25:49,860 --> 01:25:52,260
value for value just goes, you
know, go take out a

1347
01:25:52,260 --> 01:25:55,530
subscription. If you think it's
if you liked the show, help us

1348
01:25:55,530 --> 01:25:59,760
out that way. We stay ad free
done. It was like 15 seconds.

1349
01:26:00,450 --> 01:26:02,910
And then you don't let us know.
It's not a single ad and the

1350
01:26:02,910 --> 01:26:06,060
rest of the show and it was
glorious. And I went and

1351
01:26:06,420 --> 01:26:09,030
immediately gave the guy money.
It was like, yeah.

1352
01:26:11,070 --> 01:26:14,010
Adam Curry: That's how it works.
Yes. Are you guys doing music

1353
01:26:14,010 --> 01:26:16,380
hosting at all? Or is that also
in the backlog?

1354
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:22,800
Unknown: It's not something
we're targeting? I'm sure every

1355
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:25,650
podcast host out there hosts
music without knowing their

1356
01:26:25,650 --> 01:26:31,140
hosting? No, it's not. I mean,
again, it's on the backlog. We

1357
01:26:31,140 --> 01:26:34,830
would love to do what you guys
have done in merged, you know,

1358
01:26:34,830 --> 01:26:39,570
value for value. And music? I
think it is the future, I think

1359
01:26:39,570 --> 01:26:45,090
it's the way to go. I think it's
still early days. And for us to

1360
01:26:45,090 --> 01:26:49,200
put resources towards it is
difficult. You know, our pet

1361
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:52,920
project is Mexico. And that's
where our resources go. We're

1362
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:56,940
kind of in that sort of where
can we just add dollars to see

1363
01:26:56,940 --> 01:27:00,930
what happens that definitely
like, like we mentioned before,

1364
01:27:00,930 --> 01:27:06,330
I was so up on music. But the
implementation and the kind of

1365
01:27:06,330 --> 01:27:10,410
the day to day that takes over
within the company kind of keeps

1366
01:27:10,410 --> 01:27:10,710
us from

1367
01:27:10,740 --> 01:27:13,710
Adam Curry: and remote remote
items for people who want to add

1368
01:27:13,710 --> 01:27:15,090
music to their podcast.

1369
01:27:16,740 --> 01:27:20,580
Alberto: Yes, that that can be
done sooner than later. Music

1370
01:27:20,580 --> 01:27:24,780
also had a compliance issue,
meaning for example, I'm based

1371
01:27:24,780 --> 01:27:28,200
in Spain, you have to pay a
license. So it's very unclear

1372
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,140
how to deal with it. on an
international level at the

1373
01:27:31,140 --> 01:27:34,770
moment, it's kind of, it's kind
of, it's something we want to

1374
01:27:34,770 --> 01:27:38,370
do. But because we have so many
things on our plate, it's really

1375
01:27:38,370 --> 01:27:42,150
a matter of choosing the
priority of what we what we are

1376
01:27:42,150 --> 01:27:45,210
gonna do. Like these months
alone, in the past 30 days, we

1377
01:27:45,210 --> 01:27:51,270
launched our UI for for lead. We
launched padrone full support.

1378
01:27:51,300 --> 01:27:54,810
Nice. And yeah, and today, we
launched for example, a brand

1379
01:27:54,810 --> 01:27:58,890
new a major upgrade of our web
player, so that we can show

1380
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:01,050
podcasting 2.0 chapters.

1381
01:28:01,350 --> 01:28:04,680
Adam Curry: Tell us tell us
about their full screen when

1382
01:28:04,770 --> 01:28:07,860
Alberto: the idea was bent. So
perhaps you want to first

1383
01:28:07,860 --> 01:28:10,050
Adam Curry: of all, Ben, how did
how did you get it out of the

1384
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:12,900
infamous backlog and get it into
production?

1385
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:14,250
Alberto: Because it was easy

1386
01:28:14,250 --> 01:28:18,450
Unknown: enough? Yes. And then
it started a year ago. I mean,

1387
01:28:19,050 --> 01:28:19,530
of course,

1388
01:28:20,100 --> 01:28:22,980
Alberto: it was fun last year,
this idea? Yeah. Yeah. So

1389
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:26,700
Unknown: I just really, I mean,
in listening to you guys, and

1390
01:28:26,700 --> 01:28:30,090
kind of envisioning what, what
Todd Cochran called Super

1391
01:28:30,090 --> 01:28:35,640
chapters, I could just envision
so much more information.

1392
01:28:37,500 --> 01:28:41,640
December dissemination via these
chapters. And so I was talking

1393
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:46,770
about the look, listen, we've
we've got to be the, the, we've

1394
01:28:46,770 --> 01:28:50,280
got to have a player that can do
what we know that super chapters

1395
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:54,990
can do. And so getting those in
there, and making it so it can

1396
01:28:54,990 --> 01:28:58,710
be like a slideshow, it can be
like, a good storytelling, it

1397
01:28:58,710 --> 01:29:02,520
can, I mean, the number of
comedy skits that, you know,

1398
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:08,190
rely on one image or two images
are pretty, you know, large and

1399
01:29:08,190 --> 01:29:11,820
so, I mean, that just, there's
so many possibilities, and it

1400
01:29:11,820 --> 01:29:14,640
was just taking so long, I'm
like, oh, better, let's just

1401
01:29:14,670 --> 01:29:19,050
let's implement this. We've got
to eat our own dog food. The way

1402
01:29:19,050 --> 01:29:21,210
that we do this is with
improving the embedded player.

1403
01:29:21,210 --> 01:29:23,700
So yeah, just released today. So
tell

1404
01:29:23,700 --> 01:29:26,670
Adam Curry: me about because of
course, I think it was Daniel J.

1405
01:29:26,670 --> 01:29:30,570
Lewis, who coined the term super
chapters and it may mean

1406
01:29:30,570 --> 01:29:34,410
different things to different
people. What is super chapters

1407
01:29:34,410 --> 01:29:34,830
two, you

1408
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,280
Unknown: know, so yeah, they're
the podcasting 2.0 chapters. I

1409
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:41,100
mean, just in putting it in a
term and maybe it was down Jay,

1410
01:29:41,100 --> 01:29:43,650
listen, not Todd. I give Todd a
lot of credit for stuff that he

1411
01:29:43,650 --> 01:29:44,940
probably never said or did

1412
01:29:50,580 --> 01:29:54,300
like the guru, so

1413
01:29:54,300 --> 01:29:58,740
Alberto: I want to give you a
Latin Latin class super top in

1414
01:29:58,740 --> 01:30:03,990
my opinion, but I call When I
saw the term super chapter being

1415
01:30:04,020 --> 01:30:08,010
used in different contexts, like
Superman, like, you know, great

1416
01:30:08,010 --> 01:30:11,580
chapters are, but really super
comes from Latin, which means

1417
01:30:11,610 --> 01:30:17,220
above. And the super chapters
for me, defines podcasting 2.0

1418
01:30:17,220 --> 01:30:22,470
chapters in in that they are a
JSON file that is on top of the

1419
01:30:22,470 --> 01:30:25,560
audio and is not embedded in the
audio, which gives a lot of

1420
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:29,250
advantages. You don't have to
update the audio file. Audio

1421
01:30:29,250 --> 01:30:34,320
files are lighter compared to
the ID three. So super charter

1422
01:30:34,350 --> 01:30:38,790
in my own definition is from
Latin above the chapter. Okay,

1423
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,730
Adam Curry: that's I'll take it.
I like it. I like it. Daniel J.

1424
01:30:41,730 --> 01:30:44,100
Lewis won't like it. And Todd
Cochran is scratching his head

1425
01:30:44,100 --> 01:30:46,380
altogether. Like what how did I
get into this?

1426
01:30:48,930 --> 01:30:52,080
Dave Jones: What it Where's an
exempt? I'm trying to find an

1427
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:56,670
example. What how do you find
the play The

1428
01:30:56,730 --> 01:30:59,280
Adam Curry: Super chapters? The
play the web player? You

1429
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:00,780
Dave Jones: mean the player?
Yeah, yeah, I

1430
01:31:00,780 --> 01:31:02,700
Adam Curry: won't. Because you
have to have a podcast you can

1431
01:31:02,700 --> 01:31:04,950
get started for free. No credit
card required.

1432
01:31:07,050 --> 01:31:08,400
Dave Jones: Where's the like?

1433
01:31:09,570 --> 01:31:13,050
Unknown: Better has a he's got
an example podcast that we can

1434
01:31:13,050 --> 01:31:13,860
say, Well, we,

1435
01:31:14,250 --> 01:31:16,680
Alberto: yes, we create. We
bought a domain. It's called

1436
01:31:16,710 --> 01:31:22,830
podcasting. innovation.com It
redirects to a podcast, we host

1437
01:31:22,860 --> 01:31:26,790
that we just launched very short
episodes that we are gonna use

1438
01:31:26,940 --> 01:31:31,320
to illustrate the possibilities
of podcasting, and mainly

1439
01:31:31,350 --> 01:31:36,180
podcasting 2.0 features, so we
just launched it. So in tune to

1440
01:31:36,210 --> 01:31:39,510
help our users understand really
what it means. So yes, if you go

1441
01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:43,530
to podcasting innovation.com
first episode, you can just play

1442
01:31:43,530 --> 01:31:47,550
fullscreen. Okay, I'm looking at
Finnish shines with desktop,

1443
01:31:47,670 --> 01:31:51,600
whereas in mobile phones, the
experience is closer to modern

1444
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:54,810
podcast apps. Yes. But in
desktop, you have a clickable

1445
01:31:54,810 --> 01:31:58,050
link so you can use it in many
ways. It's just a way hopefully,

1446
01:31:58,050 --> 01:32:02,220
we even we would see an uptick
in the use of podcasts.

1447
01:32:02,220 --> 01:32:05,550
intrapreneur chapters, that's
our main goal. And

1448
01:32:07,350 --> 01:32:10,500
Dave Jones: I've been encouraged
by, you know, podcast apps, like

1449
01:32:10,500 --> 01:32:14,400
pocket casting in adopting,
getting getting on board with

1450
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:16,800
adopting some of these, you
know, some of the features

1451
01:32:17,220 --> 01:32:20,610
because, you know, when, I mean,
we gotta be honest, when when a

1452
01:32:20,610 --> 01:32:24,720
big one a big podcast app with
that many users, when they put

1453
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:29,010
the feature in it just like,
right, they lifts all boats. So

1454
01:32:29,010 --> 01:32:32,970
it's a big, it's a big deal has
been very encouraging to see

1455
01:32:32,970 --> 01:32:37,650
that in a city like for them
supporting chapters, and pod

1456
01:32:37,650 --> 01:32:40,710
paying. And, you know, they've
been talking about value for

1457
01:32:40,710 --> 01:32:43,890
value for a long time and then
putting that in place. I mean,

1458
01:32:43,950 --> 01:32:47,850
that's it. I feel like it's just
going to make every it's just

1459
01:32:47,850 --> 01:32:50,460
going to make these things sort
of standard so they're not there

1460
01:32:50,490 --> 01:32:53,820
they're not considered
experimental anymore because

1461
01:32:53,820 --> 01:32:56,400
they're really not I mean, we're
some of these features are four

1462
01:32:56,400 --> 01:33:00,420
years on and they're just
they're just solid now this is

1463
01:33:00,420 --> 01:33:01,590
not beta stuff.

1464
01:33:01,650 --> 01:33:03,510
Adam Curry: This looks nice
guys. I'm looking at the the

1465
01:33:03,510 --> 01:33:06,390
full screen web player that's
really pretty. It looks really

1466
01:33:06,390 --> 01:33:07,290
pretty. Yeah,

1467
01:33:07,290 --> 01:33:08,850
Dave Jones: it does look like a
slight it does look like a

1468
01:33:08,850 --> 01:33:11,610
PowerPoint like a slideshow.
Yeah, and

1469
01:33:11,610 --> 01:33:14,190
Unknown: I can work first
iteration. Yeah, I was gonna say

1470
01:33:14,190 --> 01:33:17,370
the first iteration it just
wasn't enough slides. I'm like I

1471
01:33:17,370 --> 01:33:21,570
need more I need more images
more chapters more and more

1472
01:33:21,570 --> 01:33:25,500
chapter in they humored me in
Alberta of course agreed that it

1473
01:33:25,500 --> 01:33:28,710
just it needed to really kind of
fly they

1474
01:33:28,710 --> 01:33:30,750
Adam Curry: put some animated
GIFs in there man

1475
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:36,420
Dave Jones: step up your your
draft Scott

1476
01:33:36,420 --> 01:33:38,760
Adam Curry: goes crazy with that
stuff. He's putting animated

1477
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:41,010
GIFs in his stuff is flying
around.

1478
01:33:42,780 --> 01:33:46,680
Unknown: I do love I do love the
awesome art changed when I

1479
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:53,430
listen here on on the podcast.
Food I use these a pod verse is

1480
01:33:53,460 --> 01:33:55,140
he's a nowadays but yeah, it's

1481
01:33:55,500 --> 01:33:59,130
Adam Curry: okay. Well, let's do
an awesome change as we take a

1482
01:33:59,130 --> 01:34:03,480
little display song. Yeah. All
right now remember everybody use

1483
01:34:03,480 --> 01:34:07,590
a modern podcast app to boost
the artists so that they feel

1484
01:34:07,590 --> 01:34:10,650
the love let them know that you
heard it on podcasting. 2.0

1485
01:34:11,610 --> 01:34:16,770
pulled this one out of the value
verse. This is Tim Asch had to

1486
01:34:16,770 --> 01:34:19,080
let you go on podcasting 2.0

1487
01:34:19,650 --> 01:34:23,370
Unknown: started out just like
the fairy tales and movies

1488
01:34:23,370 --> 01:34:25,200
always said it should

1489
01:34:30,300 --> 01:34:36,000
everything was picture perfect
no deny in everything was good.

1490
01:34:40,980 --> 01:34:46,470
But the winds of change blew in
the doubt crept in again. In the

1491
01:34:46,470 --> 01:34:51,180
seeds love Jesus. Had to lead
you

1492
01:34:54,990 --> 01:35:00,120
and lead you I'll

1493
01:35:08,639 --> 01:35:09,989
let you go

1494
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:24,540
crazy how old memories can feel
just like they happened

1495
01:35:24,540 --> 01:35:25,680
yesterday

1496
01:35:30,900 --> 01:35:35,130
and our soul can take you back
just some words in the middle of

1497
01:35:35,130 --> 01:35:45,870
the night even when the attorney
you know that solid just falls

1498
01:35:45,870 --> 01:35:51,810
down doesn't matter reinvents
faster horses I had to let you

1499
01:36:32,100 --> 01:36:41,130
story phase two there's no going
back for the world you have to

1500
01:36:41,130 --> 01:36:42,150
let you go

1501
01:36:51,480 --> 01:36:52,470
to let you

1502
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:42,090
Adam Curry: go think he should
probably let that go. Let her go

1503
01:37:42,930 --> 01:37:44,190
screaming out for

1504
01:37:51,270 --> 01:37:52,890
I don't know what that was. She

1505
01:37:52,890 --> 01:37:54,960
Alberto: was upset because he
let her go. Yeah.

1506
01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:59,850
Dave Jones: I didn't. I didn't
hear you come in with the

1507
01:37:59,850 --> 01:38:01,320
saxophone on the second call.
Yeah,

1508
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:03,180
Adam Curry: really was out.

1509
01:38:03,630 --> 01:38:06,270
Alberto: You know, I thought
about that. I'm not home. I am

1510
01:38:06,270 --> 01:38:09,840
in the office. I thought if I
were home, I would just play

1511
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:13,860
something and see if Adam and
Dave just you know, my channel.

1512
01:38:14,010 --> 01:38:16,140
I next time. Hey, if

1513
01:38:16,140 --> 01:38:18,360
Adam Curry: you play something,
we're playing it on the show.

1514
01:38:18,420 --> 01:38:22,500
Guaranteed. Guaranteed. We know
you got recordings we know you

1515
01:38:22,500 --> 01:38:24,930
got it there. We know you have
it all bets. Oh, come on. Come

1516
01:38:24,930 --> 01:38:25,290
on. Man. I

1517
01:38:25,290 --> 01:38:27,810
Alberto: have an EP from the
early 2000s.

1518
01:38:30,510 --> 01:38:31,890
Dave Jones: Was this not been
known?

1519
01:38:34,020 --> 01:38:37,050
Adam Curry: Good value block,
put it on a fee. Come on.

1520
01:38:38,610 --> 01:38:42,000
Alberto: To my old band by now.
They're still they're still

1521
01:38:42,150 --> 01:38:44,880
around, but they are in Italy
now. Oh,

1522
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:47,370
Dave Jones: I think you would go
to the top of the podcast index

1523
01:38:47,370 --> 01:38:47,850
Top Top.

1524
01:38:48,330 --> 01:38:51,600
Adam Curry: Top charts. Be right
at the top for sure. The Duke

1525
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:51,810
sees

1526
01:38:51,810 --> 01:38:53,850
Dave Jones: the Duke silver of
hosting companies

1527
01:38:59,190 --> 01:39:06,120
so that I think I think, I don't
know. I think we're in a we're

1528
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:08,340
in an interesting point. We're
trying to get some of these

1529
01:39:08,340 --> 01:39:13,170
tags, you know, sort of over the
finish line with with with phase

1530
01:39:13,170 --> 01:39:17,760
seven. So this is phase seven
has been sort of like it's been

1531
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:21,600
really complicated for me trying
to write a lot of this stuff up

1532
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:25,650
because it's it's confusing. And
I've had to get back and forth

1533
01:39:25,650 --> 01:39:29,040
and that kind of thing. But I
feel like you know, we said

1534
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:33,840
early on a lot of the easy stuff
was was just what it is. I mean,

1535
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:38,250
it's easy. All that stuff came
quick. And now we're at the more

1536
01:39:38,700 --> 01:39:43,140
the more complicated stuff where
we're things are just not as

1537
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:48,840
they don't happen as fast. Do
you have any like Alberto, do

1538
01:39:48,840 --> 01:39:53,640
you have any any tags or any
features that you're really

1539
01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:59,340
itching, itching to see put into
the to be official

1540
01:40:02,340 --> 01:40:05,040
Alberto: So, sorry, to pay
seven, we're talking about

1541
01:40:05,070 --> 01:40:07,770
polisher and chat. I guess
you're

1542
01:40:07,770 --> 01:40:10,200
Dave Jones: just anything. I
mean, like, do you have anything

1543
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:14,160
that you're that you're really
waiting on? Or, you know, a

1544
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:17,190
really excited about that you do
you think is not going fast

1545
01:40:17,190 --> 01:40:17,610
enough?

1546
01:40:18,660 --> 01:40:24,450
Alberto: Well, I I in my in my
case, personally, it's something

1547
01:40:24,450 --> 01:40:28,080
we didn't discuss directly with,
with Ben. But the alternate

1548
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:31,260
enclosure is something that's
been there forever. It's not

1549
01:40:31,260 --> 01:40:35,190
phase seven, but I think is not
used enough. And one thing that

1550
01:40:35,220 --> 01:40:40,680
intrigues me is the possibility
of having lower quality files

1551
01:40:40,860 --> 01:40:47,400
used by phones, which have Kayo
s and Paudel. P, we bought a

1552
01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:51,120
Kayo s phone with with Ben and
try to understand these emerging

1553
01:40:51,120 --> 01:40:55,950
markets or more rural area
worldwide. And and this is

1554
01:40:55,950 --> 01:40:57,510
something that's very
interesting for me, because it

1555
01:40:57,540 --> 01:41:01,140
looks like a low hanging fruit.
And we don't even support it

1556
01:41:01,140 --> 01:41:05,160
yet. We told Sam, we would
support it. So we have to we

1557
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:10,470
committed, but but really, so if
you asked me all the tags,

1558
01:41:10,710 --> 01:41:15,240
ultimate enclosure is great. And
I can imagine scenarios and use

1559
01:41:15,240 --> 01:41:20,040
cases where there are multiple
languages. You know, besides

1560
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:23,640
having lower quality or Yes,
lower quality lower sides. So

1561
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:27,180
it's less data transfer, I can
see multiple scenarios, it looks

1562
01:41:27,180 --> 01:41:32,010
to me such a low hanging fruit
or boosts files. So I think

1563
01:41:32,010 --> 01:41:33,300
that's where we should go next.
So

1564
01:41:33,300 --> 01:41:37,200
Adam Curry: the pot LP player is
really great. I've had contact

1565
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:40,680
with the dev before. And I have
somewhere still have my flip

1566
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:45,000
phone that has pot LP, I would
say the alternate enclosure and

1567
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:49,440
maybe this is just something we
can we can end on is there's a

1568
01:41:49,440 --> 01:41:57,960
lot of confusion about YouTube
URLs being used in the alternate

1569
01:41:57,960 --> 01:42:00,240
enclosure? Any anybody want to
tackle that one?

1570
01:42:00,630 --> 01:42:02,850
Dave Jones: Well, yeah, this is
this is interesting out there,

1571
01:42:02,850 --> 01:42:07,530
too. Because you you, you guys,
if I'm not mistaken, you allow

1572
01:42:07,530 --> 01:42:13,260
Auto Upload into YouTube. So you
would have you would have that

1573
01:42:13,620 --> 01:42:17,010
code there to be able to pull
that out and put into an

1574
01:42:17,010 --> 01:42:18,060
alternative enclosure.

1575
01:42:19,170 --> 01:42:24,510
Alberto: Absolutely. So I had
this conversation with Sam, Sam

1576
01:42:24,510 --> 01:42:26,910
Sethi a couple of times really

1577
01:42:26,910 --> 01:42:29,190
Adam Curry: long emails,
probably very, very long email.

1578
01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:34,680
Alberto: Does he also write long
emails to you? Okay, okay,

1579
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:38,400
because I told Sam I don't reply
because I need them to reply

1580
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:40,950
with a loom video or
withstanding it's too many

1581
01:42:40,980 --> 01:42:44,700
things. And, you know, now
Gmail, with the threat is not so

1582
01:42:44,700 --> 01:42:48,450
easy to replace paragraph by
paragraph like in the past. So

1583
01:42:48,900 --> 01:42:52,170
it's a joke, but it's true. It
is. They're very good, though.

1584
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:55,110
Adam Curry: We love you. We love
Sam, we love ya

1585
01:42:55,110 --> 01:42:56,430
Alberto: know, we do we do.

1586
01:42:56,820 --> 01:42:57,810
Adam Curry: We love his books.

1587
01:42:58,920 --> 01:43:03,360
Alberto: So on the one hand, I
love what true fans is doing. I

1588
01:43:03,390 --> 01:43:09,000
am a user of true friends. On
the other hand, sometimes, too,

1589
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:12,570
I love what Sam is doing. And I
love that sometimes it doesn't

1590
01:43:12,690 --> 01:43:17,100
wait, and it just push it out
and see what happens. And this

1591
01:43:17,100 --> 01:43:21,120
was the case for ultimate
enclosure with the URL that

1592
01:43:21,150 --> 01:43:24,990
doesn't have really a MIME type.
And that's something I brought

1593
01:43:24,990 --> 01:43:28,200
up. I mean, if that's
implementation, we can build it

1594
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:33,630
in in one hour. Right. But the
whole point was was, you know,

1595
01:43:33,630 --> 01:43:38,040
a, this is not semantically
correct, if you think in strict

1596
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:41,280
terms, and that's what confuses
me, sometimes I'm thinking is it

1597
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:46,050
better to break up with the
rules at this stage, or to just

1598
01:43:46,110 --> 01:43:49,860
try to stick to, to the, with
the specs, because we are in

1599
01:43:49,860 --> 01:43:53,940
early stage. And so we should
figure out a way to, you know,

1600
01:43:53,940 --> 01:43:57,930
to prove your specs before it's
too late. Another example, I

1601
01:43:57,930 --> 01:44:03,600
just bring it up the live the
live item tag, you have the

1602
01:44:03,630 --> 01:44:07,470
length in there, because the
live item tag uses the

1603
01:44:07,470 --> 01:44:10,380
economical enclosure tag, it
makes a lot of sense. I get it,

1604
01:44:10,590 --> 01:44:14,220
but it doesn't make sense to
have that attribute in there.

1605
01:44:14,340 --> 01:44:16,980
You don't want the length
because you didn't know the

1606
01:44:16,980 --> 01:44:20,310
duration specifically, but you
have to do it, you add it

1607
01:44:20,370 --> 01:44:23,910
otherwise, you know, if you
don't added length, it doesn't

1608
01:44:23,910 --> 01:44:27,810
validate the RSS feed. We had
this conversation in Macedon.

1609
01:44:28,050 --> 01:44:31,230
And really people are putting
123 We're putting I'm putting I

1610
01:44:31,230 --> 01:44:34,770
mean, I talked to you, our
engineers, let's put 2018 It was

1611
01:44:34,770 --> 01:44:38,820
our funding years. It just
doesn't make sense. You know? So

1612
01:44:38,940 --> 01:44:43,710
on the one hand, it's okay to
put YouTube URLs, but these are

1613
01:44:43,710 --> 01:44:48,210
not an include. These are not a
no they are a media file. They

1614
01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:53,430
are URL so it's kind of a hack.
So I wonder if so that's where

1615
01:44:53,430 --> 01:44:56,130
I'm torn. That's why I'm saying
I appreciate a lot, but I'm

1616
01:44:56,130 --> 01:44:59,370
afraid we already deviate from
the standards before even having

1617
01:44:59,370 --> 01:45:00,960
them At ASCII,

1618
01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:05,280
Dave Jones: was it's not because
the YouTube embed is under Todd

1619
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:08,310
has been on a mission about
this. And I, and I get it, I

1620
01:45:08,310 --> 01:45:11,580
just haven't really haven't been
able to focus on that very much,

1621
01:45:11,580 --> 01:45:15,450
because these are the things.
But I think that can't. So the

1622
01:45:15,450 --> 01:45:20,670
question is, is it just a
Content link? Or is it a, an

1623
01:45:20,670 --> 01:45:22,950
alternative closure, if you're,
if you're talking about the

1624
01:45:22,950 --> 01:45:30,690
YouTube embed code, and to me,
it's more than just a link. It's

1625
01:45:30,690 --> 01:45:35,880
not just a link it's intended,
it's there in the feed, to be

1626
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:40,170
intended to be ingested by the
podcast app in some way. So it's

1627
01:45:40,170 --> 01:45:44,970
more than just a link. But then
also, it's not enough to be

1628
01:45:44,970 --> 01:45:48,900
considered an enclosure. So it's
really, it's really, I feel like

1629
01:45:48,900 --> 01:45:53,880
it is appropriate for it to be
an alternate enclosure. But as

1630
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:57,270
long as we have, but we may need
to make make a modification to

1631
01:45:57,270 --> 01:46:03,480
the spec, to say that these that
alternate enclosure can be this

1632
01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:07,920
other sort of thing. It can be
something, something where you

1633
01:46:07,920 --> 01:46:12,120
can say okay, here, here's an
alternative enclosure, which is

1634
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:18,060
a web a URI, pointing to a
thing, that you as the app are

1635
01:46:18,060 --> 01:46:22,710
gonna have to go get an
interpret somehow, to do

1636
01:46:22,710 --> 01:46:26,520
something special with it. Like
I feel like that fits within

1637
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:29,460
alternate enclosure. But it's
not just simply a MIME type

1638
01:46:29,460 --> 01:46:32,430
issue, because it is a different
sort of animal where you're

1639
01:46:32,430 --> 01:46:35,310
having, you're saying, okay, the
app is going to have to go and

1640
01:46:35,310 --> 01:46:40,890
decode this thing into some
other thing. I mean, that's the

1641
01:46:40,890 --> 01:46:44,430
only way it makes sense to me,
it's still it's not because it's

1642
01:46:44,430 --> 01:46:45,900
more than just a link.

1643
01:46:47,070 --> 01:46:53,760
Alberto: I have not but one
thing there is that then Sam

1644
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:57,240
Sethi did it be the right thing?
Because he prompted this

1645
01:46:57,240 --> 01:47:02,790
conversation by by kind of not
breaking the rules, but kind of,

1646
01:47:03,030 --> 01:47:08,130
and I think so we can say that
whoever dares and try something

1647
01:47:08,130 --> 01:47:12,510
different within the community.
And he's open about that, maybe

1648
01:47:12,510 --> 01:47:15,780
maybe that's a good thing to do.
Maybe it's, you know, it starts

1649
01:47:15,780 --> 01:47:18,570
this process, because I agree
with you that we should

1650
01:47:18,570 --> 01:47:23,520
absolutely succinate somehow
that tag so that we take into

1651
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:25,470
account the YouTube user user
case.

1652
01:47:27,120 --> 01:47:29,520
Dave Jones: I think we can just
I think we can just tweak the

1653
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:32,010
specs a little bit. And Nathan
already has a proposal in there

1654
01:47:32,010 --> 01:47:37,350
to to enhance the content link
spec. And I think that's also

1655
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:40,410
valid, because you could see it
as a link as well. I don't

1656
01:47:40,410 --> 01:47:43,230
really care which way it goes.
But I think you're I think

1657
01:47:43,230 --> 01:47:46,740
you're right. I think between
Todd and Sam, having the

1658
01:47:46,740 --> 01:47:50,790
conversation is important,
because it's not. We are we're

1659
01:47:50,790 --> 01:47:53,340
probably going to run into stuff
like this in the future as well.

1660
01:47:54,780 --> 01:47:58,470
You know, and I know like y'all,
because I'm sure you would, if

1661
01:47:58,470 --> 01:48:02,160
you had a way forward, you would
probably since you already know

1662
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:05,370
the are the YouTube ingestion,
you would you know, y'all would

1663
01:48:05,370 --> 01:48:07,680
put it in there, but it's just
you absolutely know what to put

1664
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:08,130
in there.

1665
01:48:11,100 --> 01:48:12,960
Adam Curry: Shall we? Thanks for
people.

1666
01:48:13,830 --> 01:48:15,870
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, sure.
There were there. Yes. Yeah,

1667
01:48:15,870 --> 01:48:16,140
we're

1668
01:48:16,170 --> 01:48:21,360
Adam Curry: our 148. Oh, wow.
Okay. Whoa, time flies when

1669
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:25,500
you're with good friends. Hands
Across the border friends in

1670
01:48:25,500 --> 01:48:28,620
Mexico. Where are you in Mexico?
No, you're in Spain, aren't you?

1671
01:48:29,220 --> 01:48:30,780
Yeah, Roberto. Where are you
again in

1672
01:48:31,770 --> 01:48:32,550
Alberto: Barcelona.

1673
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:35,430
Adam Curry: My daughter is in
Barcelona right now. I didn't

1674
01:48:35,430 --> 01:48:37,080
know. Yeah. If

1675
01:48:37,080 --> 01:48:39,150
Alberto: she needs any
recommendations or anything.

1676
01:48:39,150 --> 01:48:40,710
Just drop a line. Well, thank

1677
01:48:40,710 --> 01:48:43,680
Adam Curry: you. That's highly
or like a bad signal. She's in

1678
01:48:43,680 --> 01:48:48,030
trouble. She's in jail. We get
her out. Absolutely. I would. I

1679
01:48:48,030 --> 01:48:49,140
love you, brother. Thank you.

1680
01:48:49,170 --> 01:48:51,450
Unknown: We're doing a team
meeting in Barcelona and a few

1681
01:48:51,450 --> 01:48:53,460
weeks. Maybe she can join the
team.

1682
01:48:54,150 --> 01:48:55,410
Alberto: Around in two weeks.
No,

1683
01:48:55,410 --> 01:48:59,490
Adam Curry: no, she's only
staying for five days. She said

1684
01:48:59,580 --> 01:49:03,720
serrulata familia today. Very
nice. Which is just so you know,

1685
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:05,160
they're finishing that thing.

1686
01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:09,990
Alberto: Yeah, it's I mean, I
was there. I went with my

1687
01:49:09,990 --> 01:49:14,310
pardons really? Two months ago
because I hadn't hadn't gone

1688
01:49:14,310 --> 01:49:18,630
since 2003. There. And it's
actually done. Yeah, I

1689
01:49:18,630 --> 01:49:21,570
Adam Curry: know. Some viewers
seen this. Dave. Shakira familia

1690
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:26,280
know what is that? That's the
big church slash almost

1691
01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:32,430
cathedral that Gaudi started the
artists Gaudi and Oh, my you've

1692
01:49:32,430 --> 01:49:35,610
got to look it up. It's, it's
amazing. I went there with oh

1693
01:49:35,610 --> 01:49:38,580
Dave Jones: my gosh, I'm looking
at the goodness. I'm looking at

1694
01:49:38,580 --> 01:49:39,690
the photographs. How long

1695
01:49:39,690 --> 01:49:41,640
Adam Curry: have they been
building it? Oberto was like 400

1696
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:42,180
years?

1697
01:49:42,630 --> 01:49:45,180
Alberto: Nah, but since the 60s,
something like that. I thought

1698
01:49:45,180 --> 01:49:45,930
it was much longer

1699
01:49:45,930 --> 01:49:47,130
Adam Curry: than that. No,

1700
01:49:47,130 --> 01:49:49,500
Unknown: God, Gowdy is pretty
recent.

1701
01:49:51,750 --> 01:49:55,290
Alberto: Actually, before maybe
it's the 30s The 40s I'm bad

1702
01:49:55,290 --> 01:49:57,990
because I was there two months
ago with the audio guide, and

1703
01:49:57,990 --> 01:50:00,120
then listen to the whole thing
and I already don't remember If

1704
01:50:01,530 --> 01:50:07,260
I guess in the 60s Gaudi died,
and he died under a bus I didn't

1705
01:50:07,260 --> 01:50:13,230
know Yeah, no, he didn't die. He
got hit by a bus. It's crazy.

1706
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:16,980
Adam Curry: Way to go, but even
what's the what's that little

1707
01:50:16,980 --> 01:50:19,620
village that he built? I went to
see that two. What's it called

1708
01:50:19,620 --> 01:50:23,940
the park? Well, man, it's
amazing. His architecture was

1709
01:50:23,940 --> 01:50:28,440
just phenomenal. Really, it's
really cool. And I was also at

1710
01:50:28,440 --> 01:50:34,530
the familiar cigarette, the
Sagrada Familia in 2008 2020.

1711
01:50:34,890 --> 01:50:38,640
But I was there. I was in 2002.
Where Don't

1712
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:41,670
Alberto: you see just two years
ago you said you

1713
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:45,360
Adam Curry: know, last year I
was in seat Yes. Yeah. Last year

1714
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:45,990
we went to

1715
01:50:46,140 --> 01:50:48,660
Alberto: Yeah, and it didn't go
to Sagrada Familia. No, we did.

1716
01:50:48,690 --> 01:50:49,560
We did we did and

1717
01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:53,460
Adam Curry: that's what I said
we did. We also went to familia

1718
01:50:53,460 --> 01:50:56,250
Taurus I don't remember much
after that. By

1719
01:50:56,250 --> 01:50:58,980
Alberto: having cantina to drink
wine we could when

1720
01:51:00,300 --> 01:51:05,910
Adam Curry: we went Yes, we went
to the cantina. You remind me

1721
01:51:05,910 --> 01:51:07,560
the song Speedy Gonzales

1722
01:51:11,550 --> 01:51:13,830
Alberto: muy muy prosody.

1723
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:15,960
Adam Curry: That's good. It's
good. No, it's beautiful.

1724
01:51:15,960 --> 01:51:18,900
Barcelona is beautiful. I
recommend anybody if you can go

1725
01:51:18,900 --> 01:51:22,920
to Barcelona, Barcelona. It's
beautiful. Let's thank a few

1726
01:51:22,980 --> 01:51:27,990
boosters. We have blueberry 6969
Blueberry says the next steps

1727
01:51:27,990 --> 01:51:30,870
for gifs involves building
miniature live action sets that

1728
01:51:30,870 --> 01:51:34,800
are boost reactive film that
then impose GIF puppets over the

1729
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:38,730
top of the set like knit the rat
does. One part lit podcasting

1730
01:51:38,730 --> 01:51:41,970
one part Southpark styled
animations one part Wayne's

1731
01:51:41,970 --> 01:51:50,550
World. Whoa, send me a link to
see that. Deal with this is some

1732
01:51:50,550 --> 01:51:53,430
crazy work. This is when you
unleash it on people. This is

1733
01:51:53,430 --> 01:51:57,480
what happens. I got to check out
what Nick the rat is doing. br

1734
01:51:57,510 --> 01:52:01,680
Since 1000 SATs hook tie says
this right slipped it in there.

1735
01:52:01,860 --> 01:52:04,650
You guys don't know what that
is, but it's a viral sensation.

1736
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:09,420
Call McCormick 20 to 22 Row
ducks these board meetings are

1737
01:52:09,420 --> 01:52:15,960
powerful go podcasting we will
spurious Tom spurious, Tom. Do

1738
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:17,490
we know spurious, Tom?

1739
01:52:18,090 --> 01:52:20,580
Dave Jones: I've never seen
that. Well spurious, Tom.

1740
01:52:23,670 --> 01:52:26,640
Adam Curry: Welcome to the
family 777. That's what hit the

1741
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:32,130
harp earlier long, loving the
live podcast he says 1000 SATs

1742
01:52:32,130 --> 01:52:35,490
from Sam Sethi. I guess he
figured out how to refresh and

1743
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:39,150
got our live stream. He says
this is regarding e cash. We are

1744
01:52:39,150 --> 01:52:42,510
doing something similar in true
fans with virtual wallets and

1745
01:52:42,510 --> 01:52:48,900
the W three C web payment
standard. They're gonna go look

1746
01:52:48,900 --> 01:52:49,590
at that now.

1747
01:52:50,580 --> 01:52:53,250
Dave Jones: Web payment is the
mean like web monetization.

1748
01:52:54,810 --> 01:52:57,720
Adam Curry: Obviously, he's got
a URL, which is W

1749
01:52:57,720 --> 01:53:05,370
three.org/payments/w G and let's
see what this is. Forbidden. Why

1750
01:53:05,370 --> 01:53:08,970
am I seeing this? Your access to
the site was blocked by

1751
01:53:08,970 --> 01:53:10,020
wordfence.

1752
01:53:12,510 --> 01:53:15,000
Dave Jones: Let's go okay. With
payments overview.

1753
01:53:15,480 --> 01:53:18,630
Adam Curry: I got I got caught
while I'm here to see if I do

1754
01:53:18,630 --> 01:53:22,560
around here. Here we go. Web
Payments. March 2020. The

1755
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:24,330
working group working group.

1756
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:28,200
Dave Jones: Okay, so it's not a
actual standard and

1757
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:32,010
Adam Curry: not yet they're
working on. Okay. Back to our

1758
01:53:32,010 --> 01:53:39,780
boost. Chris, Chris last Chris
LA's 10,000 10,000 SATs. Peg.

1759
01:53:39,780 --> 01:53:42,480
Yes. Very stoked. You guys are
looking into this Ecash stuff.

1760
01:53:42,510 --> 01:53:44,400
I've been thinking for months.
This could be a better

1761
01:53:44,400 --> 01:53:47,550
experience for listeners and
podcasters definitely down to

1762
01:53:47,550 --> 01:53:51,720
help test this with the Jupiter
broadcasting show. Ah, he says

1763
01:53:51,720 --> 01:53:55,440
that should be shows probably.
Definitely Chris. Well, that's

1764
01:53:55,440 --> 01:53:58,890
the beauty of the value block is
you can put any kind of payment

1765
01:53:58,890 --> 01:54:02,910
mechanism in there. So I guess
we just add it and it says hey,

1766
01:54:02,940 --> 01:54:06,180
this we just have to figure out
how to transport it but I'm glad

1767
01:54:06,180 --> 01:54:08,910
you're all in buddy. I'm glad
you're in we need we need that

1768
01:54:08,910 --> 01:54:14,460
help. Now Jean Everett 3333 He
says E cash is trash

1769
01:54:14,460 --> 01:54:17,670
unfortunately. So there's the
other side of the coin. He

1770
01:54:17,670 --> 01:54:21,840
doesn't say why but I'd love to
know why it's trash. So

1771
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:23,010
Unknown: it rhymes and so

1772
01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:29,010
Adam Curry: clearly with is 1776
from salty crayon how the board

1773
01:54:29,010 --> 01:54:31,920
room you know the economy is
trash when Hooters has close to

1774
01:54:31,950 --> 01:54:36,300
has to close 333 locations.
Magic number good thing. My note

1775
01:54:36,300 --> 01:54:40,080
is running 24/7 The sweet sound
of Satoshis thanks to our

1776
01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:45,330
producers in the 2.0 verse go
podcast thing. Nope. Then we

1777
01:54:45,330 --> 01:54:51,210
have that 169 691 From blueberry
and I will mention again. It's

1778
01:54:51,210 --> 01:54:54,750
the satellite skirmish. It's lit
in the app on Sunday at four

1779
01:54:54,750 --> 01:54:57,840
central Stephen B and Eric
peopIe have transformed the

1780
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:03,390
split kit into something magical
check Get out at live is lit.com

1781
01:55:03,810 --> 01:55:06,720
and then 100 SATs from Sam just
let us know we couldn't hear the

1782
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:12,090
show, but we fixed that. Let me
see 100 SATs from Nunya business

1783
01:55:12,120 --> 01:55:17,310
who just says Hey, back at you,
Jeremy. 15 333 ITM? Oh, that's

1784
01:55:17,310 --> 01:55:20,610
where we're sorry. But you have
skipped over that one. And then

1785
01:55:20,610 --> 01:55:22,740
I'm at the delimiter. No,

1786
01:55:22,770 --> 01:55:25,470
Dave Jones: like, we don't have
we have zero pay pals for the

1787
01:55:25,470 --> 01:55:25,800
week.

1788
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:29,670
Adam Curry: Value for value,
everybody.

1789
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:33,270
Unknown: The biggest mistake you
guys made was saying how much

1790
01:55:33,270 --> 01:55:35,790
you had in the bank I'll bet on
are like, Well, okay, they're

1791
01:55:35,790 --> 01:55:37,740
well enough funded. We don't
need to send anything in.

1792
01:55:40,350 --> 01:55:42,690
Dave Jones: transparency for the
loss? Yes.

1793
01:55:43,980 --> 01:55:47,580
Unknown: Yeah. But we'll fund
your trips. I mean, you guys go

1794
01:55:47,580 --> 01:55:50,430
meet up giving it back rubs on
the beach. We'll fund that.

1795
01:55:51,150 --> 01:55:56,400
Dave Jones: says, Yeah, we the
point of point of note, be less

1796
01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:57,660
transparent. Okay, gotcha.

1797
01:55:58,500 --> 01:56:02,310
Adam Curry: How much? How much
are we paying a month? Dave? To

1798
01:56:02,310 --> 01:56:03,000
Dave Jones: the hosting?

1799
01:56:03,030 --> 01:56:04,350
Adam Curry: Yeah. What are

1800
01:56:04,350 --> 01:56:07,860
Dave Jones: our total costs?
720.

1801
01:56:08,070 --> 01:56:10,620
Adam Curry: It's about 120.
About 1200 bucks a month? I'd

1802
01:56:10,620 --> 01:56:11,970
say with the voltage node.

1803
01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:18,060
Dave Jones: Yeah. 720 for the
for the Linode is 150 for the

1804
01:56:18,060 --> 01:56:19,140
voltage.

1805
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:23,850
Adam Curry: So we'll be out of
money. Two years. All right.

1806
01:56:23,850 --> 01:56:26,160
Keep it up, guys. Keep it up.

1807
01:56:27,120 --> 01:56:28,260
Unknown: We'll be sure to Don't.

1808
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:31,890
Adam Curry: Don't send us any
value. I understand. That's

1809
01:56:31,890 --> 01:56:34,590
right. Maybe we just shouldn't
do the show. Just write it out.

1810
01:56:34,590 --> 01:56:38,640
Dave. Write it out. Write it
out. Write it out. Yes. I'm sad.

1811
01:56:38,640 --> 01:56:39,360
No problem.

1812
01:56:40,980 --> 01:56:44,010
Dave Jones: As somebody did send
us something. Hey, citizens and

1813
01:56:44,010 --> 01:56:49,020
as 6969 Please, Adams new album
plus plus, we need this.

1814
01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:52,200
Adam Curry: I don't think so. By
the way, it turns out that song

1815
01:56:52,200 --> 01:56:53,850
was 100% Ai.

1816
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:58,080
Dave Jones: No, that's Is it for
real? Yeah. Yeah.

1817
01:56:58,110 --> 01:57:00,810
Adam Curry: That was for real.
But it was it was all AI from

1818
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:02,250
Richard Moses.

1819
01:57:04,620 --> 01:57:06,180
Dave Jones: greaser greaser.
Yeah, he was

1820
01:57:06,180 --> 01:57:09,870
Adam Curry: all God about being
played on the on the podcast.

1821
01:57:10,620 --> 01:57:13,380
Dave Jones: Well, if, if if
you're going to release your

1822
01:57:13,380 --> 01:57:17,820
album, then Alberta has to
release his app. It's only fair.

1823
01:57:18,210 --> 01:57:24,330
Okay. I want to I want to boost
Alberto's album, I'm just saying

1824
01:57:24,330 --> 01:57:26,640
that's that would be a highlight
of my week.

1825
01:57:26,670 --> 01:57:28,380
Adam Curry: Why they've got
enough money. They don't need to

1826
01:57:28,380 --> 01:57:29,100
boost them for any

1827
01:57:30,330 --> 01:57:31,890
Dave Jones: money. Take it back.
There's women,

1828
01:57:32,520 --> 01:57:36,540
Adam Curry: women and money over
there. Yeah. They're doing just

1829
01:57:38,040 --> 01:57:40,020
what split they don't need to
split. They don't need to be

1830
01:57:41,580 --> 01:57:44,010
Dave Jones: caring for the
minimalist podcast, satchel

1831
01:57:44,010 --> 01:57:47,490
Richards. 1111. He says, hit me
up with that fat pipe. Okay,

1832
01:57:47,550 --> 01:57:54,540
done. Let's see who we get this,
we get the delimiter from last

1833
01:57:54,540 --> 01:57:59,820
week. Oh, I messed up because?
Because I had we were Saturday

1834
01:57:59,820 --> 01:58:06,270
last week. Oh, what was the date
from what was last Saturday?

1835
01:58:07,500 --> 01:58:12,510
Adam Curry: The 22nd. Second was
that 22nd? Okay. By the way, you

1836
01:58:12,510 --> 01:58:15,300
guys didn't send me a wallet to
put in the split.

1837
01:58:16,380 --> 01:58:19,710
Alberto: Oh, we forgot. It's
okay. No, no, no, I want

1838
01:58:19,710 --> 01:58:21,780
Adam Curry: you to feel good. I
want to feel good about us

1839
01:58:21,780 --> 01:58:23,580
sending your money. Keeping

1840
01:58:23,580 --> 01:58:26,010
Dave Jones: burning coals on
your head is what it is. There

1841
01:58:26,010 --> 01:58:26,370
you go.

1842
01:58:28,590 --> 01:58:31,320
Adam Curry: Yes, we will. That's
exactly how it works. The

1843
01:58:31,320 --> 01:58:34,050
Dave Jones: 22nd was Saturday,
how am I gonna get through this

1844
01:58:35,670 --> 01:58:38,880
20th area 23rd Auto open a
channel. But I still have

1845
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:41,340
concerns about what happens when
the node receives more than the

1846
01:58:41,340 --> 01:58:48,000
opening 50,000 sets. This is
from user 34908002. Okay 2100

1847
01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:52,140
sets. He says I don't want a
payment to fail. If say trips,

1848
01:58:52,140 --> 01:58:55,860
got booths and artists 100,000
sets for a killer song, we would

1849
01:58:55,860 --> 01:58:58,140
also need to be sure that
there's auto increase on the

1850
01:58:58,140 --> 01:59:00,900
channel balance when the
payments start coming in. We see

1851
01:59:00,900 --> 01:59:03,600
payments fail for many reasons
for artists and that is not a

1852
01:59:03,600 --> 01:59:06,930
good experience. See this. He's
right. And this is or he or she

1853
01:59:07,080 --> 01:59:10,110
is right. And this is the reason
why I think a mint model makes a

1854
01:59:10,110 --> 01:59:15,480
lot of sense. So yeah, just have
to make sure that you have

1855
01:59:16,380 --> 01:59:19,770
plenty of funding on the back
end. I mean, like that's, well,

1856
01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:22,560
Adam Curry: if as long as
someone funds as long as you

1857
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:26,430
don't touch the funds, the
funding is always there. Right?

1858
01:59:26,610 --> 01:59:28,590
Dave Jones: So you just oh
you're just doing is making

1859
01:59:28,620 --> 01:59:31,140
you're no longer doing channel
management. You're just making

1860
01:59:31,140 --> 01:59:38,250
sure the number is is
sufficient. Anyway, the SC chat

1861
01:59:38,250 --> 01:59:42,060
F 3333 through fountain he says
My biggest takeaway from from

1862
01:59:42,060 --> 01:59:45,540
this meeting last week show was
ROI. This stuff isn't free to

1863
01:59:45,540 --> 01:59:47,430
run and it's not free to
operate.

1864
01:59:48,570 --> 01:59:51,480
Adam Curry: It's true. That's
right. Tried to fix it, trying

1865
01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:51,960
to fix it.

1866
01:59:52,560 --> 01:59:56,940
Dave Jones: Gee nonnamous 1700
SAS through fountain he says hub

1867
01:59:56,940 --> 02:00:01,230
liquidity. I'm greasing the
skids a bit at a time Thank you,

1868
02:00:02,790 --> 02:00:06,210
from anonymous 5000 SAS through
pod verse says sounds

1869
02:00:06,210 --> 02:00:09,750
unavoidable that making V for V
caveman easy will require some

1870
02:00:09,750 --> 02:00:13,950
sort of KYC. If so, should we
focus less on the Alby LSP

1871
02:00:13,950 --> 02:00:16,890
stuff, and instead have podcast
apps try integrating with

1872
02:00:16,890 --> 02:00:20,370
lightning enabled exchanges like
river or cash app. It feels like

1873
02:00:20,370 --> 02:00:22,800
we're letting self sovereign
goals get in the way of

1874
02:00:22,800 --> 02:00:25,860
onboarding listeners, it was
drinkers not moonshiners who

1875
02:00:25,860 --> 02:00:26,940
ended prohibition.

1876
02:00:27,210 --> 02:00:32,130
Adam Curry: Good points. And
this this solution that we're

1877
02:00:32,130 --> 02:00:35,130
looking at actually does both
you can be sovereign or you can

1878
02:00:35,130 --> 02:00:36,540
be custodial.

1879
02:00:37,350 --> 02:00:40,260
Dave Jones: Yeah, and book in
the lightning side of things is

1880
02:00:40,260 --> 02:00:42,870
not going away. I mean, it's
always going to be there. It's

1881
02:00:43,230 --> 02:00:46,200
just whatever the podcast or
wants to do. That's just the way

1882
02:00:46,200 --> 02:00:49,920
that works. I mean, the the
lightning podcast value block

1883
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:52,710
will continue to function just
like it always has, if that's

1884
02:00:52,710 --> 02:00:57,720
what people want. boomy for from
malby 51 understands this

1885
02:00:57,720 --> 02:01:00,990
channels opening or the KYC
process for the self sovereign

1886
02:01:00,990 --> 02:01:05,280
person. Yeah, I think we read
that one live. Give us a brown

1887
02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:09,570
of London. Ancient computers
ranged in the long caves deep in

1888
02:01:09,570 --> 02:01:13,170
the bowels of the planet take
away the dark millennia and the

1889
02:01:13,170 --> 02:01:16,290
ages hang heavy on their dusty
database Google's polling

1890
02:01:16,290 --> 02:01:20,640
computers that's it we read I
think we read that one too.

1891
02:01:20,670 --> 02:01:25,260
Yeah. But that's on the date on
this is the 23rd How's that

1892
02:01:25,260 --> 02:01:25,920
impossible

1893
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:30,660
Adam Curry: he's in a different
timezone. This is from the

1894
02:01:30,660 --> 02:01:33,480
source Yes, it's from the from
the Holy Land.

1895
02:01:33,900 --> 02:01:37,410
Dave Jones: Yeah, this is
getting confusing me. Pod home

1896
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:41,070
8000 SATs through podcasts guru
says Hey, guys, so for medium

1897
02:01:41,070 --> 02:01:44,400
equals course an audio book,
just tell apps what it is so

1898
02:01:44,400 --> 02:01:48,930
that the apps can for instance,
display episodes oldest to

1899
02:01:48,930 --> 02:01:52,560
newest if that's not set in the
feed and maybe change episode to

1900
02:01:52,560 --> 02:01:55,410
lecture and so on? Yeah, I think
it would be great to set some

1901
02:01:55,410 --> 02:01:58,530
guidelines for mediums and
namespace spec just to help apps

1902
02:01:58,530 --> 02:02:03,060
interpret them the same so I
think he's right because we were

1903
02:02:03,060 --> 02:02:05,070
talking about what this course
do I

1904
02:02:05,070 --> 02:02:06,900
Adam Curry: think we talked
about that we just need more

1905
02:02:06,900 --> 02:02:10,980
examples right? Which we have we
said he has the one example

1906
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:16,230
Yeah, we have one example
already Yeah. So the leader

1907
02:02:16,770 --> 02:02:18,840
Dave Jones: like with our says
like with what y'all are doing

1908
02:02:18,840 --> 02:02:23,340
with our with the embedded
chapters in the player? What you

1909
02:02:23,340 --> 02:02:27,960
sort of like a presentation
style. I could see that I mean,

1910
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:32,340
I can see that player being a
sort of like course experience

1911
02:02:32,670 --> 02:02:36,030
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Where he
watched Yeah, very much so

1912
02:02:37,140 --> 02:02:39,510
Dave Jones: yeah, like good luck
when those online academy type

1913
02:02:39,510 --> 02:02:45,480
things that would be that would
be pretty rockin once told Kyle

1914
02:02:45,780 --> 02:02:48,900
2222 through podcasts good
graces missed you guys glad

1915
02:02:48,900 --> 02:02:53,910
you're ready to ride the
lightning again. Pot berry pot

1916
02:02:53,910 --> 02:02:56,610
home came through 6100 SATs
again he says also my audio

1917
02:02:56,610 --> 02:02:59,910
courses are free courses an
audio books can be paid products

1918
02:02:59,910 --> 02:03:01,680
true fans of course has a
feature for that

1919
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:05,640
Adam Curry: as good true fans as
it has implemented everything.

1920
02:03:06,120 --> 02:03:06,390
Yeah,

1921
02:03:06,390 --> 02:03:07,560
Dave Jones: they have a feature
for everything.

1922
02:03:08,700 --> 02:03:12,150
Alberto: Sam just put on
LinkedIn that they support live

1923
02:03:12,150 --> 02:03:13,470
events 20 minutes ago.

1924
02:03:13,800 --> 02:03:17,220
Adam Curry: Oh, that's another
thing we got to we got to look

1925
02:03:17,220 --> 02:03:17,460
at.

1926
02:03:18,810 --> 02:03:22,110
Dave Jones: Oh, this see live
events

1927
02:03:22,110 --> 02:03:24,930
Adam Curry: with owning ticket
tickets. Yeah. Ticketing.

1928
02:03:26,460 --> 02:03:28,680
Dave Jones: Comic Strip blogger
UPS delimiter. Comic Strip

1929
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:33,000
blogger 25,000. Sets the
fountain says, Edie fellow meat

1930
02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:33,780
bags animal

1931
02:03:34,950 --> 02:03:36,150
Adam Curry: meat bags.

1932
02:03:38,490 --> 02:03:42,030
Dave Jones: Singularity is Near.
So I'm launching soon weekly

1933
02:03:42,030 --> 02:03:46,650
comic strip about AI singularity
at WWW dot singularity dot

1934
02:03:46,650 --> 02:03:50,040
Express. But in meantime, I
invite your audience to visit my

1935
02:03:50,040 --> 02:03:55,530
daily cartoons at WWW dot CSV
dot lol. Yo CSV.

1936
02:03:56,040 --> 02:03:58,980
Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. I'm
glad I'm glad you were here. I'm

1937
02:03:58,980 --> 02:04:04,110
always smiling when he shows up.
Always lovely. Monthly,

1938
02:04:04,140 --> 02:04:05,910
Dave Jones: and that's from
that's from Oh, yeah, we got

1939
02:04:05,910 --> 02:04:10,080
some let's see. We got we got
Jordan Dunnville $10 Thank you,

1940
02:04:10,080 --> 02:04:15,150
Jordan. Michael Kimmerer $5.33
Dred Scott, Bruce Wayne is

1941
02:04:15,150 --> 02:04:19,620
podcasting. $15 and Patreon gone
calvess $5. Well,

1942
02:04:19,620 --> 02:04:21,390
Adam Curry: Dave, I think we
should just empty out the bank

1943
02:04:21,390 --> 02:04:24,060
account and I should go on a
little vacation. Go look at

1944
02:04:24,060 --> 02:04:26,940
that. Yeah, go look at Yeah,

1945
02:04:27,120 --> 02:04:31,110
Unknown: so So I took advantage
of the little interlude here and

1946
02:04:31,110 --> 02:04:34,920
we smashed that like button on
the podcast index.org In

1947
02:04:36,060 --> 02:04:36,690
donation.

1948
02:04:40,320 --> 02:04:44,460
Adam Curry: Day we shamed him
into a beautiful, beautiful,

1949
02:04:44,490 --> 02:04:45,420
beautiful red.

1950
02:04:45,420 --> 02:04:49,050
Dave Jones: I'm checking I'm
checking it. Lucas. Adam.

1951
02:04:49,080 --> 02:04:50,130
Adam Curry: Oh, yes. Dave.

1952
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:55,860
Dave Jones: Been in Alberta from
rss.com Send us $1,200 Wow.

1953
02:04:57,690 --> 02:04:59,970
Unknown: 20 is Blaze. Oh man,
Paul.

1954
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:02,580
Oh, you should have told us you
should have told us that the

1955
02:05:02,580 --> 02:05:04,590
monthly expenses was 20,000.

1956
02:05:07,500 --> 02:05:09,600
Dave Jones: We're dying over
here. We're kidding. We're

1957
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:11,550
getting to a

1958
02:05:11,550 --> 02:05:14,580
Adam Curry: reminder that Adam
and Dave take nothing out of out

1959
02:05:14,580 --> 02:05:16,830
of this furniture. We leave
everything on the note

1960
02:05:16,830 --> 02:05:19,740
everything the bank account and
we appreciate your support

1961
02:05:19,770 --> 02:05:23,010
monetarily, but also just You're
the you're in the game that

1962
02:05:23,010 --> 02:05:26,160
you're doing it you're it's
always a delight to have you

1963
02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:31,290
guys on even though Roberto is
a, you know, a tech guy. He's

1964
02:05:31,290 --> 02:05:36,570
very, very sunshiny. He's always
he's always always upbeat,

1965
02:05:36,570 --> 02:05:41,670
always exciting. You guys are
great. You really are. And, and

1966
02:05:41,670 --> 02:05:45,330
I hope I keep sending enough
customers your way. I try and

1967
02:05:45,330 --> 02:05:49,860
say yeah, try and send you the
big guys. One other thing. I'm

1968
02:05:49,860 --> 02:05:50,910
sorry. Yeah, Adam.

1969
02:05:50,910 --> 02:05:54,060
Unknown: Sorry. Just anytime
anybody from the Austin area

1970
02:05:54,060 --> 02:05:58,140
comes into the podcast transfer
portal. I tell them it's direct

1971
02:05:58,140 --> 02:06:02,430
from you. I don't ever confirm
that with you. But I always tell

1972
02:06:02,430 --> 02:06:06,150
the team Hey, VIP treatment for
this guy. This guy. This guy's

1973
02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:08,430
definitely coming from Adam.
There's some

1974
02:06:08,700 --> 02:06:14,070
Alberto: DSTV we had to be nap.
No machines do import the

1975
02:06:14,190 --> 02:06:19,590
podcast from Austin with 5000
episodes. Wow. And we did it. We

1976
02:06:19,590 --> 02:06:19,950
did.

1977
02:06:20,280 --> 02:06:22,470
Adam Curry: Well, I'm glad I
sent that person to you. I can't

1978
02:06:22,470 --> 02:06:28,080
remember who it was. Sure. Sure
it came from I'm sure. Todd did

1979
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:30,720
something really nice, which I
thought was just lovely. I'll

1980
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:36,090
use that word. I've talked about
that podcast device that this

1981
02:06:36,090 --> 02:06:43,050
guy Fernando makes the audio
sigma. Yeah. Which is I have no

1982
02:06:43,110 --> 02:06:46,710
commercial interests or anything
otherwise in that other than I

1983
02:06:46,710 --> 02:06:50,250
wish this is what I tried to
build in 2015. No, before the

1984
02:06:50,280 --> 02:06:54,150
2014 Maybe. Yeah, was a long
time ago. It's the price is

1985
02:06:54,150 --> 02:06:57,690
great is a great device. It's
pod father approved, you can do

1986
02:06:57,690 --> 02:07:01,320
live stuff shows with it. And I
think Todd is making him a

1987
02:07:01,320 --> 02:07:04,110
partner or something so they can
offer that to their customers.

1988
02:07:04,110 --> 02:07:09,450
It just beautiful. So do you
guys offer any any gear advice

1989
02:07:09,450 --> 02:07:10,590
to your customers?

1990
02:07:10,620 --> 02:07:13,230
Unknown: No. In fact, I was
going to ask you if we can buy

1991
02:07:13,230 --> 02:07:15,930
some of your your gear because
we got to send it down to

1992
02:07:15,930 --> 02:07:18,660
Mexico. We're opening up our
studio down there. And they keep

1993
02:07:18,660 --> 02:07:21,630
saying, hey, we need this piece
of equipment and that piece of

1994
02:07:21,630 --> 02:07:22,800
equipment. You should take

1995
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:25,740
Adam Curry: a look. You should
take a look at this audio sigma

1996
02:07:25,740 --> 02:07:31,950
thing is audio sigma.com.com.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's

1997
02:07:31,980 --> 02:07:32,490
definitely

1998
02:07:32,490 --> 02:07:33,060
Unknown: interested.

1999
02:07:33,180 --> 02:07:35,670
Adam Curry: It's really a pod
mobile. That's what it's called.

2000
02:07:35,910 --> 02:07:40,020
Alberto: But I saw it last week
when you mentioned it. I was

2001
02:07:40,020 --> 02:07:43,200
working in Barcelona, close to
the Sagrada Familia, and you're

2002
02:07:43,200 --> 02:07:46,680
speaking and so I have time to
look at it. It's very nice. And

2003
02:07:46,680 --> 02:07:50,700
you, we also you said that, you
know, you could also give it to

2004
02:07:50,700 --> 02:07:54,390
your own users, meaning we could
give to our users is not a bad

2005
02:07:54,390 --> 02:07:58,020
idea with some plans or some
Yeah, patient workshop. That's

2006
02:07:58,020 --> 02:07:59,070
not a bad idea at all.

2007
02:07:59,490 --> 02:08:02,880
Adam Curry: You know, they have
the he has the single microphone

2008
02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:07,800
version, which is, what does it
call the, let me see, it's the

2009
02:08:07,800 --> 02:08:13,290
mic hero at and that that I
mean, these things are amazing,

2010
02:08:13,290 --> 02:08:16,170
because you can plug it right
into your phone, and it powers

2011
02:08:16,170 --> 02:08:19,440
from the phone. And then the
phone immediately recognizes it

2012
02:08:19,440 --> 02:08:26,250
as a device that you can use.
And the end, the two mic version

2013
02:08:26,250 --> 02:08:29,580
has an expansion port, so you
can hook up another one. So if

2014
02:08:29,580 --> 02:08:33,390
you had more people or more more
mics needed, you can connect

2015
02:08:33,390 --> 02:08:36,660
them. It's, I like this guy
because he came from Brazil with

2016
02:08:36,660 --> 02:08:40,140
100 bucks in his pocket to
America. And he's just, he's

2017
02:08:40,140 --> 02:08:44,340
just grinding away and he's, you
know, he orders like 50 at a

2018
02:08:44,340 --> 02:08:47,940
time to be made. So he's, I just
want to make sure he's

2019
02:08:47,940 --> 02:08:53,700
highlighted in our, in our world
because, again, if I I tried to

2020
02:08:53,700 --> 02:08:57,030
build this and I failed, I
failed on price I filed I failed

2021
02:08:57,030 --> 02:09:00,300
on everything. It's very hard to
do, but it's a great is I think,

2022
02:09:00,720 --> 02:09:04,620
Dame Jennifer Baldwin, she was
thinking about it. Nice is

2023
02:09:04,620 --> 02:09:04,890
really

2024
02:09:05,340 --> 02:09:07,620
Unknown: put his wallet in for
our split today.

2025
02:09:09,270 --> 02:09:13,920
Adam Curry: You guys. Thank you,
Ben and Oberto from rss.com You

2026
02:09:13,920 --> 02:09:17,970
guys rock. We really appreciate
all that you do. And Have

2027
02:09:17,970 --> 02:09:21,720
yourselves a great weekend.
Thank you. All right. All right,

2028
02:09:21,720 --> 02:09:23,580
Brother Dave. Yes,

2029
02:09:23,580 --> 02:09:26,100
Dave Jones: sir. Have a great
weekend. You too, man. All

2030
02:09:26,100 --> 02:09:33,090
right, and PSA, you know, I'm
going to be going next next to

2031
02:09:33,090 --> 02:09:36,390
shows. You know, I'm gonna be
unless I'm flying out next

2032
02:09:36,390 --> 02:09:42,000
friday. Well, we may try to do
something before I leave or, or

2033
02:09:42,000 --> 02:09:42,330
what?

2034
02:09:42,540 --> 02:09:46,590
Adam Curry: Ah, you mean like a
Thursday night type thing? Yeah,

2035
02:09:46,770 --> 02:09:48,960
I don't know. We could try
something. I'd hate to have to

2036
02:09:48,960 --> 02:09:51,870
show two board meetings gone in
a row. Let's see. We can do it.

2037
02:09:51,990 --> 02:09:55,680
I mean, everybody's everybody
deserves vacation. Even you Dave

2038
02:09:55,680 --> 02:09:56,220
Jones.

2039
02:09:56,640 --> 02:09:57,840
Dave Jones: No, I don't deserve

2040
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:02,130
Adam Curry: We'll let you know.
We'll advertise it will

2041
02:10:02,130 --> 02:10:04,920
broadcast. Thank you boardroom.
Thank you for being here. We'll

2042
02:10:04,920 --> 02:10:07,620
see you very soon on podcasting
2.0

2043
02:10:22,740 --> 02:10:26,940
Unknown: GDD Hope You have been
listening to podcasting 2.0

2044
02:10:27,090 --> 02:10:30,900
Visit podcast index.org For more
information,

2045
02:10:31,200 --> 02:10:34,740
Adam Curry: go podcast. Now
that's hot