1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:06,479 Casting 2.0 for January 1 2021, Episode Number 18 we're taking a 2 00:00:06,479 --> 00:00:07,049 tenant. 3 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:16,020 What the hell is he talking about? Yeah. Yeah, 4 00:00:16,229 --> 00:00:20,699 first Friday of 2021 I'm Adam Curry here in Austin, Texas 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,900 and the guy who's already audible the man who put the D 6 00:00:24,900 --> 00:00:28,500 and the J in top 40 radio or Renaissance Man of the 21st 7 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:32,250 century. I give you Mr. Dave Jones. 8 00:00:32,789 --> 00:00:37,679 We have a renter. Yeah, you said attendance we got attendance. 9 00:00:40,710 --> 00:00:42,180 t and e t. 10 00:00:42,750 --> 00:00:43,890 o 10. Oh 11 00:00:45,270 --> 00:00:48,870 yeah. We were landlords. 12 00:00:50,970 --> 00:00:54,630 Yeah, land Yeah, we're slumlords if anything, slum lords, that's 13 00:00:54,630 --> 00:00:57,480 where we are. No taking attendance. If you haven't seen 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,790 the movie, we're doing some things in reverse. It's messed 15 00:00:59,790 --> 00:01:03,270 with our heads. We have Denton, Dan Benjamin from fireside FM 16 00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:08,400 coming up. Second half of the show. And we recorded that first 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,240 because Well, honestly, I wanted to talk with Dave first have our 18 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:18,000 regular board meeting. And, and I have no production assistance. 19 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,030 I have no way to like call him and dial him in and set him up 20 00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:22,650 and I don't want him sitting there listening for the whole 21 00:01:22,650 --> 00:01:24,420 show. That's kind of weird. It'd be weird. 22 00:01:24,930 --> 00:01:27,390 It's like interviewing James Cridland and pretending it's 23 00:01:27,390 --> 00:01:28,620 Christmas day when it's really not. 24 00:01:29,910 --> 00:01:30,810 Like, oh, 25 00:01:32,610 --> 00:01:36,450 was it just me or did Kirtland chop out all the silences on our 26 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:38,130 interview that I did on pod land? 27 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,750 I didn't hear it so much with you as a different with me. Now. 28 00:01:42,900 --> 00:01:44,490 He may have chopped me because 29 00:01:44,610 --> 00:01:47,760 I know I think he chops us both up. No, I think he did a silence 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,250 shortening it also I know we were long for what he wanted. 31 00:01:51,030 --> 00:01:53,490 But yeah, but it was funny to hear the the difference in 32 00:01:53,490 --> 00:01:57,450 audio. Like I'm Adam Curry. I'm Dave Jones. And he's like, 33 00:01:57,630 --> 00:02:00,690 no news. 34 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:07,290 We're bluster. us Americans are whatever you want. 35 00:02:08,580 --> 00:02:09,930 belligerent blusters? 36 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:10,500 Yes. 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,880 braggadocious There you go. bragging Oh, 38 00:02:14,910 --> 00:02:15,810 yeah, like that. Yeah, 39 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,720 there you go. Where does Trump have podcasting? Orange man bad. 40 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:24,180 day the tea bag tells me right now live righteously and love 41 00:02:24,180 --> 00:02:25,740 everyone. Oh, it's 42 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:27,840 a beautiful thought for the beginning of the year. 43 00:02:27,990 --> 00:02:30,390 Yeah. For Brand New Year. Happy. Happy New Year. 44 00:02:30,420 --> 00:02:33,180 Happy New Year to you, Dave. This is gonna be our year, man. 45 00:02:33,270 --> 00:02:35,430 This is the year of freedom. Oh, 46 00:02:35,460 --> 00:02:41,490 did you eat collard greens? To eat greens? No, I 47 00:02:41,490 --> 00:02:44,640 didn't. It's also I'm supposed to have jello with carrots or is 48 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:45,300 that a different? 49 00:02:45,810 --> 00:02:48,780 That's a different need. That's for you tell swingers 50 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,660 you tossed ringers 51 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,010 if you if you ever had cornbread and buttermilk. 52 00:02:56,159 --> 00:02:58,769 Oh, my goodness. Yeah. It's been a long time. 53 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,950 Oh, yeah. I don't know if that's a southern thing or if that's 54 00:03:01,980 --> 00:03:03,120 the very Yeah, I 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,510 think it's a thing for sure. Yeah. But yeah, it was South is 56 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:09,510 Virginia loves got all that. 57 00:03:10,379 --> 00:03:14,399 That's true that we're here in Texas. I wonder if they do think 58 00:03:14,429 --> 00:03:18,029 Texas is you'll fall with us during the war. So you're still 59 00:03:18,029 --> 00:03:18,419 Southern. 60 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:24,690 Look how it turned out. Yeah. Well, 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,470 I'm impatient. 62 00:03:30,540 --> 00:03:31,320 Understandable. 63 00:03:31,380 --> 00:03:35,340 I'm just an impatient kind of guy. But I'm so excited. I was 64 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:38,610 talking with the with Tina. You know, of course, over the past 65 00:03:38,610 --> 00:03:43,920 few days, we had Christmas and we had a new years. And I'm so 66 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,950 excited about what what is happening. And I'm kind of 67 00:03:46,950 --> 00:03:50,190 really excited about what's happening in the media landscape 68 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:54,450 in general. Where every I mean, first of all, Hollywood is dead. 69 00:03:55,230 --> 00:03:58,380 They they've got nothing. They can't bring anything. They can't 70 00:03:58,380 --> 00:04:01,380 produce anything. They've twisted themselves in knots. 71 00:04:01,380 --> 00:04:05,160 They don't know how to really produce from home. We scan 72 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:10,410 through some of the New Year's Eve celebrations. Oh my god, any 73 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,980 any douchebag with zoom on a podcast does better than they 74 00:04:13,980 --> 00:04:14,640 were doing. 75 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:16,830 But did that too is terrible. 76 00:04:16,829 --> 00:04:19,649 Here's another carcass? Let's see who do we have? Oh, yes, 77 00:04:19,649 --> 00:04:23,219 Dionne Warwick who I appreciate the work I'm being mean about 78 00:04:23,219 --> 00:04:25,829 it. But you know, then they can't hear her and she did. She 79 00:04:25,829 --> 00:04:29,069 can't work them and nothing is miked. It's all you know laptop 80 00:04:29,069 --> 00:04:32,189 microphones. It's horrible. No one 81 00:04:32,190 --> 00:04:36,990 like thinking we saw like, we've scanned around too and we hit we 82 00:04:36,990 --> 00:04:40,500 ended up hitting Don Lemon and some chicken this Donald 83 00:04:40,890 --> 00:04:43,680 Brooke Brooke from Did you see the racist little thing in the 84 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:44,220 corner? 85 00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:45,570 Oh no. What was that 86 00:04:45,570 --> 00:04:48,750 this was a stage kitchen obviously. And they had a little 87 00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:54,630 when I was little sugar pots of black a black round rolie polie 88 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:58,590 cook with a chef's hat and big red lips. Playing really what 89 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,990 this is like an Like Angie Mama. 90 00:05:01,170 --> 00:05:05,910 Yes. Like, holy cow. What is that? How did that get in there? 91 00:05:07,410 --> 00:05:10,140 They limit approve of that. Because I mean, like, 92 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,800 clearly he didn't it was kind of the thing that the member 93 00:05:15,780 --> 00:05:18,210 Elizabeth Warren had something in her kitchen that people 94 00:05:18,210 --> 00:05:24,330 spotted was a similar type of racist racist container, 95 00:05:25,050 --> 00:05:26,910 Indian cigar statue or whatever 96 00:05:27,690 --> 00:05:30,390 that was, it was one of these things where these little little 97 00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:33,390 black dudes with the big red lips like holy crap, 98 00:05:33,390 --> 00:05:36,990 okay, her dream catcher and this was her dream her dream catcher 99 00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:42,300 your bed. But know that I think 100 00:05:43,620 --> 00:05:44,460 it we, 101 00:05:44,850 --> 00:05:49,200 I want to have I'm going to diverge into this is completely 102 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,310 off. I want to diverge for a second into one of my one of my 103 00:05:53,310 --> 00:05:56,490 new year's resolutions is to is to finish up a whole stack of 104 00:05:56,490 --> 00:06:01,950 books on my did. I've all got bookmarks in. And I'm so bad 105 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:06,810 that there is one book that I would recommend. It is 106 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:14,550 unequivocal it's called city of sedition. Okay. And it is a book 107 00:06:14,550 --> 00:06:18,930 by New York historian. And he's written a couple books before, 108 00:06:19,290 --> 00:06:24,270 but this one is fantastic. And the the the the idea of the book 109 00:06:24,270 --> 00:06:29,550 is that he shows how New York was basically torn. The fabric 110 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:33,300 of New York was torn in half during the Civil War. So the 111 00:06:33,990 --> 00:06:36,570 what he was saying, because there were competing interests, 112 00:06:36,750 --> 00:06:41,010 you had the huge money being made from shipping and slavery, 113 00:06:41,070 --> 00:06:44,760 but essentially New York was highly dependent financially on 114 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,930 the institution of slavery now, they all the money guys did not 115 00:06:48,930 --> 00:06:50,730 want slavery to go away at all. 116 00:06:51,149 --> 00:06:54,359 Well, no, it was great commodities like human 117 00:06:54,359 --> 00:06:57,089 trafficking. It's great. It's it's more profitable than 118 00:06:57,090 --> 00:07:01,680 drugs. Totally. And they were all dependent on King cotton. So 119 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,130 they they did not but then you had this other this other half 120 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:10,260 of the city. It was completely abolition abolitionist. It was 121 00:07:10,260 --> 00:07:12,360 mostly religious, mostly religious. And that kind of 122 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,940 thing. Is the whole This is the whole back though backdrop of 123 00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:16,800 the book is all about this. But the reason I bring it up is 124 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,390 because I was reading last night. And I think it's 125 00:07:21,390 --> 00:07:25,290 important to remember in this in this new year, and all this 126 00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:29,910 stuff to ask it does happen. how things were much worse in the 127 00:07:29,910 --> 00:07:35,520 past than we like to pretend we Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But you so 128 00:07:35,550 --> 00:07:39,090 for instance, as with elections, and all this kind of stuff, we 129 00:07:39,090 --> 00:07:41,940 want to pretend as if the institution of 130 00:07:41,970 --> 00:07:44,520 has always been beautiful, it's been running smoothly, no 131 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,400 problem. There's never been any duels people shooting each 132 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,300 other. There's never been any martial law called or anything 133 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:51,810 like that. 134 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,140 They just complete garbage that we had I was reading last night 135 00:07:55,170 --> 00:07:59,820 during the election of is the one that election I can't 136 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:02,790 remember who was right before Abraham Lincoln during that 137 00:08:02,790 --> 00:08:06,750 election. Yeah. You had guys. Gangs going around throwing 138 00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:09,960 Molotov cocktails into the opposition's? Sure. polling 139 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,900 place? Oh, yeah. I mean, we're not about voter suppression. 140 00:08:14,010 --> 00:08:16,680 We're a violent country. We just, you know, we don't want to 141 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:17,850 admit to it. 142 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,420 Yeah. And Abraham Lincoln wasn't even on the ballot in 10. 143 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:21,960 States. 144 00:08:22,050 --> 00:08:24,150 I know. Isn't that great? Yeah. When you look at those three, 145 00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:26,430 man, that's and that's, you know, we're not being taught the 146 00:08:26,430 --> 00:08:30,120 real history. Now we have to talk about 1619. You know, 147 00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:32,790 everything has its place. But yeah, there's some other things 148 00:08:32,790 --> 00:08:35,430 that are important to say, anyway, 149 00:08:35,430 --> 00:08:38,010 just read just reading that. And I thought, well, you know, send 150 00:08:38,010 --> 00:08:38,280 to look 151 00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:41,879 well, and to realize and allow me to reciprocate. If there's 152 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:45,449 any book and I read this earlier this year, if there's any book I 153 00:08:45,449 --> 00:08:50,099 would recommend, for the future of freedom, I would say the 154 00:08:50,129 --> 00:08:55,169 Bitcoin standard, by saifuddien. a moose is one thing that is a 155 00:08:55,169 --> 00:08:56,039 must read. 156 00:08:56,939 --> 00:08:58,829 Okay, and this is a technical book. 157 00:08:58,860 --> 00:09:03,180 No, no, no, it explains the history of a little bit of he 158 00:09:03,180 --> 00:09:06,510 actually has a follow up series, which is doing this website, 159 00:09:06,510 --> 00:09:10,020 which is the history of Fiat. And he's explaining the money 160 00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:14,760 system and why Bitcoin will provide freedom in so many more 161 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,430 ways. I mean, think about it, without getting too deep into 162 00:09:17,430 --> 00:09:21,150 it. But, you know, money is printed to create war, and then 163 00:09:21,150 --> 00:09:24,210 there's winners and losers. And ultimately, it's the guys who 164 00:09:24,540 --> 00:09:28,140 control the money who make all the money. And, and we're all 165 00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:30,840 going back to the time of New York and the Civil War. Except 166 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,380 guess what side we're on. We're on the human trafficking side. 167 00:09:34,890 --> 00:09:38,820 Yeah, we're being trafficked as as human resources. We're even 168 00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:39,870 called this such. 169 00:09:41,010 --> 00:09:44,250 So that's that's an interesting angle to the war, the money 170 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:49,110 printing as as a funding source of war. That's totally 100% 171 00:09:49,140 --> 00:09:50,250 Oh, yeah, yeah. 172 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,340 You can not fight these wars without inflationary money. 173 00:09:53,370 --> 00:09:53,670 Yeah, 174 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:56,910 debt is the only end and and what do you get with debt? More 175 00:09:56,910 --> 00:10:02,760 war? Yeah. It's like a never ending cycle. So I feel things 176 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,930 are changing dramatically I've really been following much more 177 00:10:06,930 --> 00:10:09,360 of the tech than the technical aspects have been falling the 178 00:10:09,510 --> 00:10:12,390 philosophical aspects of Bitcoin I feel good about it because 179 00:10:12,390 --> 00:10:18,090 what we're doing is a part of an overall movement towards 180 00:10:18,090 --> 00:10:22,290 independence also known as Oh, I was reading this the other day 181 00:10:22,620 --> 00:10:24,930 toxic individualism that's 182 00:10:25,290 --> 00:10:26,070 all that yeah 183 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:30,330 toxic individualism. This is a this is what we're a part of. 184 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,290 That is a fantastic term that I love that phrase and 185 00:10:34,290 --> 00:10:39,630 that great I identify like oh yeah, yeah my my ruggedness my 186 00:10:39,630 --> 00:10:43,140 individualism is probably looks pretty toxic to a lot of people. 187 00:10:43,530 --> 00:10:45,120 It does to me, gosh, you're 188 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:46,680 you're such a horrible man. 189 00:10:48,030 --> 00:10:51,690 And I love the I love that phrase. I saw the, the, my 190 00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:57,000 favorite. My favorite thing coming out of the, as of last 191 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,810 month, though, was with with Bitcoin with Bitcoin and all 192 00:11:00,810 --> 00:11:04,620 that kind of thing is the NFL guy who's now get Oh, yeah, half 193 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:06,090 his salary in Bitcoin? 194 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,520 Well, this is, you know, there's a trend here that I'm actually 195 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:13,470 going to mention on on no agenda. The trend is that a DOS 196 00:11:13,470 --> 00:11:17,190 I'll say specifically a DOS, African Americans, the American 197 00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:21,090 descendants of slavery, they they figured it out, they are 198 00:11:21,090 --> 00:11:26,160 stacking SATs, they have said, okay, you know, let's, let's put 199 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,280 some savings away in Bitcoin. And that's really what Bitcoin 200 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:35,280 has become, is this way of, Okay, I'm going to just put a 201 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,510 little money away or cash app does it they you can do into the 202 00:11:39,510 --> 00:11:42,870 buys or whatever, on a regular basis at all, all of these 203 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,130 hotep. Jesus, that, and this is great. This is a great example. 204 00:11:47,130 --> 00:11:51,390 He has a service that does this exclusively. And people are 205 00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:54,930 realizing that, you know what, it's like I'm saving this 206 00:11:54,930 --> 00:11:58,320 Bitcoin, and it's going up. And, yeah, you can't look at it too 207 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,810 much on a day by day, week, by week or even month by month 208 00:12:00,810 --> 00:12:06,030 basis. But overall, the trend is, is very good. And it seems 209 00:12:06,030 --> 00:12:09,150 to be some kind of black hole where now you've got hedge fund 210 00:12:09,150 --> 00:12:14,130 guys who are borrowing $650 million for almost 0% interest 211 00:12:14,130 --> 00:12:20,880 buying Bitcoin, and making you know, 50% on it. So that, I 212 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,930 guess all to say that a lot of things are, I think we're going 213 00:12:24,930 --> 00:12:29,430 to see an acceleration of things changing. And that also comes 214 00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:33,510 with the COVID generation who are just being born now. You 215 00:12:33,510 --> 00:12:36,540 know, about nine months, I guess we're we're ready to have some 216 00:12:36,540 --> 00:12:41,850 COVID babies popping out. And they are not going to under 217 00:12:41,850 --> 00:12:47,580 they're not going to look at an app, a Netflix or an NBC app or 218 00:12:47,820 --> 00:12:50,010 a podcast app, and they're really not going to see any 219 00:12:50,010 --> 00:12:54,870 difference. They're not going to feel the weight of the NBC News 220 00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:59,160 Network behind the NBC app, they're going to see annoying as 221 00:12:59,190 --> 00:13:03,450 they're going to see canned stuff, and they may get bored 222 00:13:03,450 --> 00:13:05,490 with it. And they're probably going to want to create 223 00:13:05,490 --> 00:13:08,910 themselves. And they're going to migrate towards towards the app 224 00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:09,960 that they can be on. 225 00:13:11,850 --> 00:13:13,920 Which is what 226 00:13:15,299 --> 00:13:18,239 I think only podcast apps really if you didn't know you can 227 00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:22,529 guaranteed get on a podcast app. You can't get on the NBC app. 228 00:13:22,529 --> 00:13:26,849 But my point is, they're not seeing a huge mega Corporation. 229 00:13:27,179 --> 00:13:31,379 The quality sucks. I mean, what I saw New Year's Eve is any 230 00:13:31,379 --> 00:13:34,859 example shining example of the the technical and showbiz 231 00:13:34,859 --> 00:13:38,819 prowess of the mainstream Hello. They don't know how to do people 232 00:13:38,819 --> 00:13:41,729 at home we got all that figured out we have 15 years of 233 00:13:41,729 --> 00:13:45,269 experience how to turn studio closets into studios. 234 00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:50,550 So that brings up something that has you know add it's not a 235 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:55,050 finalized deal yet but the whole wonder Amazon thing? Sure. I 236 00:13:55,050 --> 00:13:59,520 know like and this is a this is something that irritates me and 237 00:13:59,550 --> 00:14:03,840 we talk about it with Dan is that you have these big I mean 238 00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:07,470 wonder he is VC play. This is this that's all it was, it is a 239 00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:10,350 way to get away to come in, produce a bunch of shows, sell 240 00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:12,750 some rights and then get out of it with an exit strategy. And 241 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:16,140 that's essentially what is what was happened and if I may say at 242 00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:18,930 least one of the venture capitalists invested in my 243 00:14:18,930 --> 00:14:23,820 podcast company pod show 15 years ago, we were 10 years too 244 00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:24,270 early. 245 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:28,110 They they saw what's happening and they did it with the with 246 00:14:28,110 --> 00:14:32,010 wanderley they were part of it. But they we didn't have an exit 247 00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:36,210 we didn't have a beautiful exit like that. But they saw what was 248 00:14:36,210 --> 00:14:39,090 happening and they retimed and I'm glad for them because they 249 00:14:39,090 --> 00:14:41,640 made all their investment back from us. They learned it was 250 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:42,510 good learning money. 251 00:14:42,929 --> 00:14:46,889 Well they wonder you guys are a couple of x bucks. Fox 252 00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:53,099 entertainment guys. In that right there's john with a jet 253 00:14:53,099 --> 00:14:54,059 Jeff Glaser. 254 00:14:54,449 --> 00:14:54,899 Oh yeah. 255 00:14:55,230 --> 00:14:58,260 And Hernan Lopez that mean that I think they're both Xbox guys. 256 00:14:58,559 --> 00:14:59,999 Now can you name one show on one 257 00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:02,790 Dr. Death, that's the only one. 258 00:15:03,059 --> 00:15:04,439 Well, that's more than I can then. 259 00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,200 Interesting See that? And that's why I brought it up is because 260 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,650 it it's like, it sets this standard where if you're going 261 00:15:10,650 --> 00:15:14,280 to be podcast if if you are going to be a successful 262 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,160 podcast, you know, I guess Amazon's bought it buying them 263 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,950 for 300 million, which I don't know how you feel. But I think 264 00:15:19,950 --> 00:15:22,860 that 300 million numbers. I don't think that's what the real 265 00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:27,480 terms were. I don't, I don't know, hard to believe that they 266 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,030 would spend 10 times earnings on that company. 267 00:15:30,750 --> 00:15:35,460 Yes. I mean, I agree. To me, it's like, good. Just get them 268 00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:37,980 out of the way. Clear the decks goodbye. Okay. 269 00:15:38,010 --> 00:15:41,310 That's all they reported, they reported 40 million in revenue. 270 00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:43,770 I mean, and they didn't never, they never said if they're 271 00:15:43,770 --> 00:15:46,500 profitable or not. And I just find it hard to believe that you 272 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:51,390 would spend $300 million on a company that has 40 million in 273 00:15:51,390 --> 00:15:54,000 revenue and and question mark profitability. 274 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,930 I don't know you and I just spent 33 million billion dollars 275 00:15:57,930 --> 00:16:05,490 and sent it to Pakistan. Oh, yeah. We got 276 00:16:05,490 --> 00:16:06,540 overwritten on that. 277 00:16:07,770 --> 00:16:12,960 I guess. Anyway, it clears the decks for more for us in but 278 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,690 what it does is it removes certain things and will actually 279 00:16:15,690 --> 00:16:17,370 just didn't really remove anything, I guess. 280 00:16:17,939 --> 00:16:20,909 But it just bothers me because it it gives this perception that 281 00:16:20,909 --> 00:16:24,389 in order to be successful in podcasting, that your production 282 00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:27,239 value has to be just imminent. Oh, this 283 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,300 doesn't bother me at all. I spend not a second thinking 284 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,030 about that. Go away, go over there, do your do whatever you 285 00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:36,150 need. Go make a whole bunch of shows that sound the same. I 286 00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:39,390 know what people want. This is the I'm going to the AOL model. 287 00:16:39,810 --> 00:16:42,810 AOL was nice neat, tidy everything in its place. 288 00:16:42,810 --> 00:16:46,980 Everything worked. The we wanted the scary internet. Please give 289 00:16:46,980 --> 00:16:50,310 us the scary web browser. People want the scary stuff. 290 00:16:50,970 --> 00:16:54,930 The all the successful LSA all of them. We have you have a 291 00:16:54,930 --> 00:16:58,470 certain crowd, that's probably the NPR type crowd that wants to 292 00:16:58,470 --> 00:17:01,140 listen to that highly produced thing and they and they like it. 293 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:05,100 But then that the the overall broader, successful landscape of 294 00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:09,810 podcasting is crazy stuff. Like just it's always just a note to 295 00:17:09,810 --> 00:17:11,580 three people talking to each other. under the 296 00:17:11,580 --> 00:17:15,180 radar. No one knows what I'm doing. No one knows no one 297 00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:17,640 cares, because I don't do advertising. So they have no 298 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,670 idea if I'm successful. If I can pay my rent, they've No idea. 299 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:30,090 Anyway, like, I just get old school podcasting feel is still 300 00:17:30,090 --> 00:17:34,740 just, that's the core to me. Well, just what I'm trying to 301 00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:35,310 hang on to 302 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:41,610 Yeah, well, I'm not because I I want to break out of the mold. I 303 00:17:41,610 --> 00:17:45,870 want to see a pot. I'm partial to pod friend. And why am I 304 00:17:45,870 --> 00:17:49,200 partial the pod from because the interface is different, is doing 305 00:17:49,230 --> 00:17:52,140 is doing different things. It's thinking more like I think it's 306 00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:57,210 not giving me an inbox. You know, there's so many things 307 00:17:57,210 --> 00:18:01,620 that why can't I? Why isn't there an app for sermons white, 308 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:04,800 which is different than than your traditional podcast app? I 309 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,150 think? Do you think the days of subscription is dead? You just 310 00:18:09,150 --> 00:18:09,810 kind of go 311 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,690 No, no, no, no subscription, no subscriptions, not dead? But how 312 00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:17,400 do you present the information? And what are you showing? I 313 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,720 mean, we all we're always like, so hung up on? Oh, my gosh, I 314 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,540 haven't, you know, searches and showing the right stuff. 315 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,270 Alright, well, what are you a search engine? You know, no one 316 00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:32,070 is few people are giving us new experiences. We can all emulate 317 00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:38,280 the apple interface. That's why I loved me I love pod friend a 318 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,560 pod Finder. And what was the other one? The the random cast 319 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:49,320 over? Cast coverage? Thank you. I love these things. Now they 320 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:54,480 have their own use. But also, would I want a professor to be 321 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:59,880 able to put up his, his, his What do you call them? lectures, 322 00:18:59,910 --> 00:19:03,840 these lectures? Yeah. I want a kid to start a podcast today. 323 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,450 And it'd be up and running within an hour and see it 324 00:19:06,450 --> 00:19:09,780 everywhere. wouldn't be possible to be seen on podcast apps. It's 325 00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:12,060 so much more to me. So I 326 00:19:12,990 --> 00:19:18,750 guess I'll say the fan podcast app UI is in general, confusing. 327 00:19:20,610 --> 00:19:25,890 Now, some, some are better than others. But a fine attend. I 328 00:19:25,890 --> 00:19:30,000 tend to find them all sort of cumbersome. And I think it's 329 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,450 just the nature of what it's trying to do. Like, take 330 00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:36,840 overcast for instance, the whole idea of of creating playlists 331 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:42,840 and that kind of thing is very, that's that is tedious. If I 332 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,220 what I really want is just a river of podcasts. That's kinda 333 00:19:47,820 --> 00:19:49,320 Well, that's just like I want a news feed. 334 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,460 Well, that's what pod friend has. In fact, only two weeks ago 335 00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:57,540 didn't have it. And we were talking about and Martin put it 336 00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:00,390 in, so you have your latest episodes. And it's your River 337 00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:03,150 podcast based on your subscriptions in chronological 338 00:20:03,150 --> 00:20:03,570 order. 339 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,900 Yeah. See that. That's all I want. I just want them all 340 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:08,100 dumped right there. Of course, 341 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:12,030 it's all you want. If people wanted an inbox for Twitter, 342 00:20:12,030 --> 00:20:16,020 we'd have an inbox for Twitter. The Yeah, exactly. It's about 343 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:18,180 the timelines baby. It's all about the TL. 344 00:20:20,010 --> 00:20:20,790 You're on the DL 345 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:27,240 D, I'm on the TL for the DL. Now, I congratulate today, in 346 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,770 the beginning of the new year caster pod for being the the 347 00:20:31,770 --> 00:20:35,310 only only tool that I'm aware of that has implemented every 348 00:20:35,310 --> 00:20:39,180 single namespace even before the namespace is finalized. 349 00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:42,840 Which I adore. 350 00:20:43,230 --> 00:20:47,940 Yes, it's it's way beyond what I've done and not even put, I've 351 00:20:47,940 --> 00:20:51,540 not even put location and person into the avenue finished those 352 00:20:51,540 --> 00:20:52,380 in the index yet. 353 00:20:52,410 --> 00:20:55,560 Well, so you and I have been discussing this and, and this 354 00:20:55,620 --> 00:21:00,150 goes back to, you know, asking Martin to do the RSS builder. I 355 00:21:00,150 --> 00:21:06,030 realized my mistake is here we have who's who's running who 356 00:21:06,030 --> 00:21:09,150 does cast a pod. Do we have a first name Benjamin Bellamy? Oh, 357 00:21:09,150 --> 00:21:13,050 Ben Benjamin, of course. So here's Benjamin and he's just 358 00:21:13,050 --> 00:21:16,470 cranking it out. I'm an independently hosted podcast. So 359 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:20,070 I'm using the freedom controller. But you suggested, 360 00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:22,920 hey, you know, why don't we just, I mean, I've got to be 361 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,430 using all these tags I've got, yeah, look how much work came 362 00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:30,540 out, or goodness came out of the chapters. Once once I started 363 00:21:30,540 --> 00:21:33,570 doing chapters, we got some real heavy traffic on it. Well, we 364 00:21:33,570 --> 00:21:36,570 learned that the API came a bit under stress, because of the 365 00:21:36,570 --> 00:21:42,090 amount of people you know, apps loading up the JSON. Found tons 366 00:21:42,090 --> 00:21:48,300 of tons. There bugs in the in the administration system, you 367 00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:53,430 know, I want to do clips, I want to do things with location. I 368 00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:57,780 certainly want to do stuff with people. So all of these things. 369 00:21:59,790 --> 00:22:04,650 I'm ready to do it. I mean, the the no agenda, and the podcasts 370 00:22:04,650 --> 00:22:08,040 and 2.0 chapter feeds are just some of the best I've ever seen. 371 00:22:08,850 --> 00:22:12,030 And we've got chapter images, we got blinked. We got everything. 372 00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:15,450 We have so many per episode. That's all one guide, Dred 373 00:22:15,450 --> 00:22:16,890 Scott. He's doing it all for us. 374 00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:22,170 Does drip have a Sphinx invitation yet? 375 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,720 You know, I haven't been able to create a new node. 376 00:22:25,380 --> 00:22:29,430 I talked to Paul yesterday. And he he said that they've been 377 00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:32,100 having some trouble with the invitation stuff. Yeah. And he 378 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,670 and he fixed but he fixed it. And I was able to get Spencer 379 00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:40,080 in. So there may be, he said that we're working on it. So 380 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,660 I've got an extra invite that I can shoot to Dred Scott, because 381 00:22:43,050 --> 00:22:44,640 we need to get him in the mix here. Yeah, 382 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,560 no, Paul was actually going to give me a whole bunch of 383 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,070 invites. But yeah, okay. We're all growing. So and it's also 384 00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:53,670 the holidays. So we'll figure that I know, I know. They're 385 00:22:53,670 --> 00:22:56,010 working on it. But you know, there's a lot of stuff they got 386 00:22:56,010 --> 00:22:57,630 it was small, everyone's small here. 387 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,780 So are we gonna I think we talked we talked about switching 388 00:23:00,780 --> 00:23:05,610 PC PCs. paquets in 2.0. showed to be on cast upon. 389 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,490 Yeah, so this is and since we're doing a board meeting here, 390 00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:14,370 okay. So I've looked at cast the pod and and I saw the setup. I'm 391 00:23:14,370 --> 00:23:21,780 like, in my eyes when all I know I can do this. But I have to be 392 00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:24,780 extremely careful. Because we went through the past three 393 00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:28,860 months, at least two of those, I have messed up every single RSS 394 00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:33,390 feed, I have caused stress on people. I've sure we've lost 395 00:23:33,390 --> 00:23:38,790 subscribers, I have skewed the stats. If anyone's looking at 396 00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:41,880 overall statistics, I mean, I'm sure I've triggered at least a 397 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,420 million more downloads that weren't necessary, probably 398 00:23:45,420 --> 00:23:51,570 more. So I need kind of a system that is ready to go that is set 399 00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:55,530 up and that I can count on and that I can't screw up. So if I'm 400 00:23:55,530 --> 00:23:58,230 going to install this myself, I'm a little worried about it. 401 00:23:58,650 --> 00:23:59,850 Now, install it. 402 00:24:00,030 --> 00:24:03,480 I mean, it can't be as bad as freedom controller. Well, I, 403 00:24:03,810 --> 00:24:05,610 I didn't install freedom control either. 404 00:24:05,970 --> 00:24:06,660 Well, that's true. 405 00:24:10,050 --> 00:24:12,930 Yeah, once it's like, okay, now set up your dot environment. I'm 406 00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:13,170 like, 407 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,190 Okay, 408 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:19,920 if I can't if I can do sudo apt install. 409 00:24:20,669 --> 00:24:24,119 Go to the identity access management panel in AWS like, 410 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,759 nope, nope, not doing it. Yeah. 411 00:24:28,140 --> 00:24:31,860 I got to get my PEM files. That would be really good. And then 412 00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:34,350 can you import all the shit so that it outputs it so I don't 413 00:24:34,350 --> 00:24:35,340 have to? I mean, I just 414 00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:37,920 I don't even know. I had no idea. 415 00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:43,590 Yeah, well, because I would love to use it because then I can be 416 00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:47,760 a shining example. I also need to get the value block in there 417 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,730 because that's another thing people like I saw Brian of 418 00:24:50,730 --> 00:24:54,510 London going I don't get it. How does this work and and this is 419 00:24:54,570 --> 00:24:57,570 this will this will lead us to the next to another topic, but I 420 00:24:57,570 --> 00:25:02,160 wanted to add that I was excited. About the IP Fs 421 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:09,240 conversation coming back. Yeah. And and specifically IP ns. And 422 00:25:10,050 --> 00:25:15,870 I was thinking, is it time is that for me, it seems like Casta 423 00:25:15,870 --> 00:25:20,490 pod could get nothing. Now you can configure it to anything 424 00:25:20,490 --> 00:25:25,050 maybe s3 or whatever, you know, just whatever, bucket like 425 00:25:25,050 --> 00:25:30,330 system, but is it time to give ipfs a shot for at least the 426 00:25:30,330 --> 00:25:35,160 feed and have that, you know, in a quasi immutable place? 427 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:40,800 I'm, 428 00:25:43,740 --> 00:25:48,630 while I'm thinking about this play, play I so get the tags or 429 00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:49,080 whatever it 430 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,850 is to get our tags in maybe? 431 00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:55,200 I like? 432 00:25:56,490 --> 00:26:01,650 Yeah, the only thing that bothers me about IP ns is still 433 00:26:01,650 --> 00:26:03,480 those long strings of company cook. 434 00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:07,650 So let's just for those who don't know, we're talking about 435 00:26:07,650 --> 00:26:13,140 ipfs, the interplanetary filing system, which is a peer to peer 436 00:26:14,130 --> 00:26:19,080 file hosting network. And David, I've experimented with it a lot. 437 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:24,210 And it works. The IP ns is the naming system. And I'm not 438 00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:29,760 familiar with that. But I, I'm presuming that you can map a 439 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,480 domain name to something, or you can just map an existing URL to 440 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,110 something. 441 00:26:34,619 --> 00:26:38,279 It's like it if I understand it correctly, and the person who 442 00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:49,199 will have to correct us on this is clay, Clay Ferguson. In in 443 00:26:49,199 --> 00:26:54,239 the mess, Don, is it? if I understand it correctly, IP ns 444 00:26:54,299 --> 00:27:00,569 IP ns just gives you a hash, but it's permanent. Oh, a lot of 445 00:27:00,569 --> 00:27:00,959 garbage. 446 00:27:00,990 --> 00:27:03,990 But what's what's the downside of a long hash? What's the 447 00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:05,550 problem? Well, it's 448 00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:11,250 just not. It's just not as it's kind of like pushing Bitcoin 449 00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:15,150 lightning addresses around you. It's such a big string of 450 00:27:15,150 --> 00:27:20,460 garbage. It's really hard to like, you're never sure if you 451 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:22,860 got it, right. Like you can't copy and paste it and think, 452 00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:26,160 okay, you can't spot check it. Because it's just a bunch of 453 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,450 garbage. And so you're never real sure. It's like, Oh, did I 454 00:27:30,450 --> 00:27:34,620 copy and paste? I've copied and pasted two or three of these. Is 455 00:27:34,620 --> 00:27:37,440 this the right like, and then you to completely lose track of 456 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,420 whether or not it's I don't know, it's a little bit of a 457 00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:44,280 brain freeze that they there's another thing called DNS link 458 00:27:44,490 --> 00:27:50,190 MX. It's also being used in ipfs. I think that is more of a 459 00:27:50,190 --> 00:27:59,340 traditional DNS, like, linkage over to IP over to ipfs. Mm hmm. 460 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,840 So I mean, that might be usable, but I don't know. I just saw 461 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,710 that like a couple days ago. But I think it's more of a link an 462 00:28:07,710 --> 00:28:12,870 actual link to the DNS system. Okay. And that seems a little 463 00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:15,750 weird. I can 464 00:28:16,740 --> 00:28:20,730 see how that how that develops that. I mean, it just seems like 465 00:28:20,730 --> 00:28:23,400 an elegant solution. But I don't know if it works well enough. 466 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,950 And you're you're introducing things I wasn't aware of that 467 00:28:25,950 --> 00:28:28,620 makes it complicated, which is not necessarily a good thing. 468 00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:33,180 Yeah, I mean, I think it's do I think we should play with it. 469 00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:36,120 Because of the way we did it unfreedom controller was we just 470 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:41,490 had the ipfs daemon installed. And then the freedom controller 471 00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:45,150 scripting would interact with the daemon. Like just sending it 472 00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:48,840 commands and that kind of thing, which is not that much different 473 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,010 than a way a lot of people interact with lnd through a live 474 00:28:53,010 --> 00:28:57,150 room, so it's fine, it's a fine way to do it. And if cast upon 475 00:28:57,150 --> 00:29:00,660 if I understand correctly, is just, you just install it on a, 476 00:29:01,050 --> 00:29:02,760 you know, on a Linux box. So you should have 477 00:29:02,910 --> 00:29:05,700 just an RSS feed, good to go. 478 00:29:06,030 --> 00:29:09,930 So we may be able to link these like some post linkage there 479 00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:12,780 where we're, we're, we're just interacting with lnd on a cron 480 00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:15,510 job. I mean, excuse me with the ipfs on a cron job or something 481 00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:19,290 like that, and making those associations after the fact. I 482 00:29:19,290 --> 00:29:21,780 don't know we can play with that. I'll get past the pod 483 00:29:21,810 --> 00:29:25,950 install, because I do. It's so hard bouncing back and forth 484 00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:30,060 between these all these different code repositories. I'm 485 00:29:30,060 --> 00:29:33,960 doing the namespace. Yeah, no index, and we podcaster wallet, 486 00:29:34,170 --> 00:29:40,380 a freedom control. It's like, I can't keep up in order to like, 487 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,750 because once we finalize a namespace thing, then I got to 488 00:29:42,750 --> 00:29:45,990 put it into podcast, you know, I got to put it in the podcast 489 00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:48,870 index and then also finalize it and you know, make sure that 490 00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:52,740 API, namespace documentation works. And then also bacon in a 491 00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:56,250 frame controller. And then, right none of time. No, 492 00:29:56,250 --> 00:30:00,360 I understand. So the shoemakers, kids are barefoot Yeah, 493 00:30:01,110 --> 00:30:05,790 yeah. Okay. I mean, if cast the cast upon it management's moving 494 00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:09,270 so fast, it may just be better just to point and say, Okay, 495 00:30:09,270 --> 00:30:10,890 well, we'll just do it that way. 496 00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:15,060 Well, if, if you can install it, I'll do all the configuration, I 497 00:30:15,060 --> 00:30:18,750 can figure all that out. But if you can install it, okay. And 498 00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:20,670 then we'll go there, and then we'll go over it together, make 499 00:30:20,670 --> 00:30:23,040 sure that I'm not going to make some catastrophic mistake, we'll 500 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,120 do some test output, see what comes out? Because it's, you 501 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:32,400 know, seriously the clips clip. The, it's called clips is called 502 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,460 sound soundbite sound bites? I mean, that's, that's the feature 503 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:41,070 clips. I can use the heck out of that. Yeah. I mean, really, this 504 00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:42,840 is very exciting. And then, 505 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,040 yeah, you can put a button you can put a bunch of them in 506 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,150 perhaps. So there's no limit. 507 00:30:48,330 --> 00:30:54,690 Yeah. Which brings me to the next thing. With the now we have 508 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,260 a number of hosting companies who are, you know, what, we have 509 00:30:58,260 --> 00:31:02,820 buzzsprout. up to speed. We have a couple others. Of course, 510 00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:07,770 fireside.fm has a lot of the tags implemented with the new 511 00:31:07,770 --> 00:31:12,630 generation of podcast apps, who I think pretty much all are 512 00:31:12,930 --> 00:31:17,700 getting there. lookups from the from the index API. Does it make 513 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:24,330 sense to just like podcast or wallet.com to allow people who, 514 00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:30,330 whose hosting company hasn't provided those tags yet to at 515 00:31:30,330 --> 00:31:33,990 least manage some of those in the database? Like they're 516 00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:37,740 putting their lightning node in for the lightning payments? So, 517 00:31:38,190 --> 00:31:38,610 so 518 00:31:39,149 --> 00:31:40,349 that sounds so painful. 519 00:31:40,379 --> 00:31:42,209 Yeah, I know. I know. 520 00:31:42,270 --> 00:31:45,720 I mean, this is like being Feedburner. But more or less. 521 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,510 Okay. But But ultimately, the podcast apps, are they getting 522 00:31:51,540 --> 00:31:54,570 all of that metadata from the RSS feed? Are they looking it up 523 00:31:54,570 --> 00:31:55,440 in the index? 524 00:31:56,010 --> 00:31:58,680 I think it's a mix of both. Like, I mean, 525 00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:01,740 ultimately, you have to have the RSS infrastructure in place. 526 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:03,930 That's our fallback that could never go away. 527 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:12,390 Right. Yeah, I think like, pod station, pod friend. Uh, I can't 528 00:32:12,390 --> 00:32:16,320 remember which ones. Some of them do. They just, they look 529 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,290 for an update, and then they'll, they'll read the feed directly. 530 00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:24,060 And then other ones are, like other ones, like Sphinx, are 531 00:32:24,060 --> 00:32:27,270 pulling all the metadata from us, just because this means 532 00:32:27,510 --> 00:32:30,150 they're not a podcast. That's not there. They don't want to 533 00:32:30,150 --> 00:32:32,220 get involved in all that. That's right. 534 00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:35,490 And that's my point. Why should they? Hmm. 535 00:32:36,810 --> 00:32:42,630 Yeah. I think that. I think that when you do things, when you're 536 00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:45,210 doing things like reading the feed, you're using this, I love 537 00:32:45,210 --> 00:32:51,120 this. Okay. So I love that how some apps are not going all in 538 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,430 with the index. They're using the index just for the pieces 539 00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:59,340 they need. And that way, and I'm a big, I'm a big believer in 540 00:32:59,340 --> 00:33:01,950 doing that. Because if I ran an app, if I ran a podcast app, 541 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,420 yeah, you don't want to bore 542 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,630 Yeah, yeah, you you want to have enough of your own 543 00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:09,420 infrastructure where you can maintain some control, right. 544 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,710 And Ridha and not have to depend Oh, god pockets index website 545 00:33:13,710 --> 00:33:14,520 went down. So now it's good. 546 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,490 Oh, yeah. No, we don't want that at all. No. Okay. All right. 547 00:33:17,490 --> 00:33:18,210 Good point. And that 548 00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:20,250 will happen, it will happen. 549 00:33:20,580 --> 00:33:22,860 That just goes back to my impatience. You know, I just, I 550 00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:25,920 just, I know that it's chicken in the egg, you got the content, 551 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,340 and the content drives the adoption. And so I can only hear 552 00:33:29,340 --> 00:33:31,260 so much I can only do so much 553 00:33:31,379 --> 00:33:35,969 this new year has made you is made you forward looking even 554 00:33:35,969 --> 00:33:39,569 more so than normal. It's energized that aspect. I'm super 555 00:33:39,569 --> 00:33:40,169 energized. 556 00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:45,120 And I want to talk about the podcasting 2.0 value for value 557 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,630 pledge model streaming, streaming money, I just want to 558 00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:50,910 give everybody an update on where we're at and what we're 559 00:33:50,910 --> 00:33:54,060 thinking about. Because you and I have been doing a lot of work 560 00:33:54,060 --> 00:33:56,820 behind the scenes, we didn't want to muddy too much stuff up 561 00:33:56,820 --> 00:33:59,910 and we're trying to figure stuff out. But now we've had Sphinx 562 00:33:59,910 --> 00:34:02,850 chat working for a couple months now. 563 00:34:04,350 --> 00:34:06,330 And remember when it first launched, but it's been going 564 00:34:06,330 --> 00:34:07,230 for a while. 565 00:34:07,980 --> 00:34:12,000 So here's so and it works. This is what we know it works. The 566 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,470 system works. A lot of polishes needed, certainly on the process 567 00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:20,670 of of managing you're getting you're getting everything set up 568 00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:24,030 in your feed at value blocks. And of course we do have 569 00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:28,380 podcaster wallet.com which allows you to to put your your 570 00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:32,220 node information into the index directly which is a beautiful 571 00:34:32,220 --> 00:34:36,570 It's a great hack and and Goddess goddess moving. The 572 00:34:36,570 --> 00:34:42,720 issue at hand is a Sphinx is not a traditional podcast app by any 573 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:46,980 stretch of the imagination. It has a lot of stuff in there that 574 00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:50,460 I think is great for the future podcast app, but it's it's 575 00:34:50,460 --> 00:34:54,300 backwards. Here's a great place for your tribe. It's literally 576 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:56,730 called the tribe. You've got all your buddies, people are 577 00:34:56,730 --> 00:35:00,600 listening. And while you're while you're listening To the 578 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:08,340 podcast, you're streaming sets. Fantastic. It doesn't scale as a 579 00:35:08,340 --> 00:35:13,740 typical podcast app. Because in order to do what Sphinx does, 580 00:35:13,740 --> 00:35:17,580 which is sending messages back and forth, and also payments 581 00:35:17,580 --> 00:35:19,980 between people back and forth, you need to have what is known 582 00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:26,490 as a full node that does the key sin protocol of lightning. So 583 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,550 there's an actual cost associated with setting up a 584 00:35:29,550 --> 00:35:33,450 Sphinx node. You know, just getting an account just to be 585 00:35:33,450 --> 00:35:40,200 able to play along. And I think that's a limiting factor. Right 586 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,490 now, for two reasons. One, Sphinx has to have the 587 00:35:44,490 --> 00:35:47,940 infrastructure to spin those up quickly, which has been a bit of 588 00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:51,420 a bottleneck. But also you can't be given stuff away. You know, 589 00:35:51,420 --> 00:35:54,540 people have to pay for something somewhere. And since they're 590 00:35:54,540 --> 00:35:59,580 going to be putting money into stream to stream money to their, 591 00:35:59,610 --> 00:36:02,640 you know, to pledge money to their podcasts or listening to, 592 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:06,990 there's a lot of stuff going on. That is not sad of this very 593 00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:09,690 much a bitcoiners type experience at the moment. 594 00:36:10,410 --> 00:36:13,320 Yeah, I mean, I can say that wholeheartedly, but based on 595 00:36:13,350 --> 00:36:17,070 trying to get Spencer set up. Yeah. Over the last cup, what 596 00:36:17,070 --> 00:36:19,080 did you run into? What were the problems you ran into? 597 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,980 Well, he said, he said, Well, I mean, I want to go all in on 598 00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:24,990 this. I believe in the future, you know, lightning. 599 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,560 What? apathy Piper No, 600 00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:33,870 none of this a pull, I think is a crossover from no agenda is, 601 00:36:34,170 --> 00:36:36,510 he's a podcast. He's do he wants to be a podcast. 602 00:36:36,510 --> 00:36:39,720 Okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah. And he's got a podcast with about 50 603 00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:43,530 episodes, 50 something episodes in it in, he's like, well, I 604 00:36:43,530 --> 00:36:46,380 want to put it on, I want to put the podcast on state owned 605 00:36:46,380 --> 00:36:50,670 things so that I can earn earn money. And then also I want to 606 00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:53,400 listen there. So I can He's like, I just want to be involved 607 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,240 in this system. I want to be in the mix. Mm hmm. And because I 608 00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:00,390 believe in it, and so he said, Well, you know, I want to, he 609 00:37:00,390 --> 00:37:03,810 said, I have a BTC pay server. And can I use lightning through 610 00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:07,050 it? And I was like, yeah, yeah. But it is, it really is a pain 611 00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:09,480 to interact with lightning, because you mean, you start 612 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,850 having to mess with tons of config files and all that kind 613 00:37:11,850 --> 00:37:15,480 of jazz. And so I was like, you know, really, you probably want 614 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,360 to go get an non dollar month lightning light node from 615 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,590 voltage, right. And so he did that. He got the voltage node, 616 00:37:22,770 --> 00:37:25,170 didn't know, he does not know very much about lightning in 617 00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:28,500 general. So I was kind of coaching along the way. And then 618 00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:33,450 got him in, get him into things which, you know, had, as 619 00:37:33,450 --> 00:37:35,880 mentioned, when Paul had to help me with the are we 620 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:36,750 getting to node you 621 00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:40,290 can get the notes to get him into steaks. Yeah, had to get it 622 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,690 get them over to podcaster wallet, but that no, it was a 623 00:37:42,690 --> 00:37:48,180 very, it was a very involved, it was a very involved process to 624 00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:54,060 take somebody from sort of zero to 100. Like, it was very diff, 625 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,380 it was a challenge, right. And, and it was, it was such a 626 00:37:58,380 --> 00:38:01,620 challenge that I realized, I can't even write this up in a 627 00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:03,510 document. Okay. 628 00:38:05,010 --> 00:38:05,520 Well, 629 00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:13,920 back to the pod, the listener side. So, in order to send 630 00:38:13,950 --> 00:38:17,820 streaming money, you have to have at least an outbound 631 00:38:17,820 --> 00:38:23,370 sending node that you can use. The good news is that there's a 632 00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:26,910 lot of different ways this can be done. And the reason why you 633 00:38:26,910 --> 00:38:30,390 need that is if you This is real time, money. So when you send 634 00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:33,180 it, the other end has to be online, or the payment just 635 00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:35,910 fails. It just doesn't happen just goes nowhere. And it's 636 00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:40,230 done. So if you're receiving SATs, you need to have a full 637 00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:45,000 node. But just as a podcast app that has that built in, that can 638 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,550 be something as simple as like, well, the I think you found that 639 00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:56,160 initially the breeze wallet, it has key send outbound. And I've 640 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,210 been talking to Roy over there at breeze for about a month now. 641 00:39:00,570 --> 00:39:03,990 And I expect them to come out now. You know, they're also 642 00:39:04,050 --> 00:39:06,210 everyone's struggling, everyone's doing what they can 643 00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:10,290 but they definitely have it on their roadmap to come out with a 644 00:39:10,290 --> 00:39:14,310 podcast app. Not not a wallet, but a product, a podcast app 645 00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:18,720 that has a wallet in it to really deliver deliver a podcast 646 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:23,550 experience with the the streaming SATs built in. So I 647 00:39:23,550 --> 00:39:25,320 don't know what issues they're going to come up against. I 648 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:31,770 haven't seen a demo. There's a back end to this that has to be 649 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,730 run. For every half node they spin up it has to have a router 650 00:39:35,730 --> 00:39:40,500 it has to have channel so they they say that they are the 651 00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:43,350 inventors of the lightning service provider and I take them 652 00:39:43,350 --> 00:39:46,680 at their word for that. And let's see if they can figure 653 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,330 this out and get that working. While this is going on, you and 654 00:39:51,330 --> 00:39:54,180 I were talking and we had a couple of different ideas and 655 00:39:54,180 --> 00:40:04,230 then I actually got a note from From the the developer at 656 00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:08,760 strike, jack Mahler's, who was a famous name in the Bitcoin 657 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:15,060 lightning crowd. And he has, and once I've, since we kind of got 658 00:40:15,060 --> 00:40:18,060 in conversation with him, I understand what he's done. He's 659 00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:22,050 built Venmo for lightning Venmo for Bitcoin. And in fact, it 660 00:40:22,050 --> 00:40:25,980 even uses the same Venmo archit architecture to connect up to 661 00:40:25,980 --> 00:40:29,250 your bank account. plaid and all that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. plaid 662 00:40:29,250 --> 00:40:32,850 right in the middle. Which I'm not against. I don't use it, but 663 00:40:32,850 --> 00:40:33,690 I'm not against it. 664 00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:35,940 I do the debit card thing. Yeah. 665 00:40:36,510 --> 00:40:40,050 Well, yeah, exactly. So here's, here's the idea that came out of 666 00:40:40,050 --> 00:40:44,850 these conversations. And we hope to pick that up with with jack 667 00:40:44,850 --> 00:40:51,390 in the next week or so. The idea we had there was to create a 668 00:40:52,140 --> 00:41:00,420 value for value API, so that we could immediately enable any 669 00:41:00,420 --> 00:41:05,190 podcast app who can talk to this API with the ability to do the 670 00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:09,990 lightning payments. And the way that would work is strike would 671 00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:14,970 function both as the podcast listeners wallet. And it could 672 00:41:14,970 --> 00:41:18,480 also function as the receiving side, obviously. So if you're 673 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,440 listening, so my idea the way it came together, and which I think 674 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,100 is possible, which I think mallards gets, and I know you 675 00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:29,850 get it, is you have it. So let's just take pod friend, I'm gonna 676 00:41:29,850 --> 00:41:34,530 take that as an example. Because I use it. And you want to 677 00:41:34,530 --> 00:41:38,910 connect the pod friend podcasting app, as it is today, 678 00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:41,880 to be able to send lightning payments in real time when 679 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:47,460 you're listening. And he would literally get the stripe wallet, 680 00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:52,950 scan a QR code, and you're done. And then your payments would 681 00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:56,850 come the way they do it. You can go under a penny since it's 682 00:41:56,850 --> 00:42:00,000 still fiat money they're dealing with but for every minute you 683 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:06,450 listen, that amount will get deducted from your account. Yes, 684 00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:09,030 and it's a perfect system, it can totally work. 685 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,490 And that developer, in this case, Martin or 686 00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:15,750 jack ma or catcher? 687 00:42:15,780 --> 00:42:19,770 No. Yeah. Yeah, the add the podcast app to them? Yeah, they, 688 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,970 they don't have to bake in any lightning wallet functionality 689 00:42:23,970 --> 00:42:27,780 at all. It's basically they're just, they're just saying, okay, 690 00:42:27,780 --> 00:42:31,260 here's, they make a linkage and initial linkage between the 691 00:42:31,260 --> 00:42:35,970 strike wallet and the app. And then that part is finished. And 692 00:42:35,970 --> 00:42:40,650 then every time that that person listens to the podcast that that 693 00:42:40,830 --> 00:42:43,830 did that every time that listener listens to a podcast, 694 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,120 in which they have said, I want to donate this much money a 695 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:53,010 minute that that will trigger. And there will be an API call, 696 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,560 he could batch them together and later and say, well, there's 697 00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:58,830 there's 50 of these, you know, in the past mean an hour, or 698 00:42:58,830 --> 00:43:01,950 whatever, and you just say, he bet batch them together, make 699 00:43:01,950 --> 00:43:05,340 that API call every going to do it with with the strike API. And 700 00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:08,340 that just getting the transfer happens at that point. So you 701 00:43:08,340 --> 00:43:13,530 don't have to, there's really no lightning, knowledge to ask to 702 00:43:13,530 --> 00:43:16,380 happen. And I think this is critical, because one of the 703 00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:20,760 things that we had we ran into one of the things we ran into 704 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,960 was spent with Spencer helping him set that up was, you know, 705 00:43:25,050 --> 00:43:27,720 getting the lightning nodes and up and running and all that 706 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:31,830 stuff. That's just part of the game. Yeah, the next part is you 707 00:43:31,830 --> 00:43:34,140 got to make he got to have a balance. He got to make a 708 00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:38,280 deposit in order to be able to open channels, yes, to do an 709 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,190 initial Bitcoin funding of your node, and then you and then you 710 00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:44,550 have to wait for the channels to open. Right? Just because 711 00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:47,550 there's open channels doesn't mean that there's an open route. 712 00:43:48,810 --> 00:43:54,780 Correct? Correct. So well. But the routing is interesting. I'd 713 00:43:54,780 --> 00:43:59,460 like to know what problems you ran into there. But that's, if 714 00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:03,240 you're working with the vendors. I think that's quite solvable. 715 00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:07,620 So already in my mind, what we have we have what we have 716 00:44:07,620 --> 00:44:12,060 working 100% right now, if you can, if you have a podcast app 717 00:44:12,330 --> 00:44:16,950 that can stream SATs with keys, and you can participate in the 718 00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:19,980 game, the podcaster side was put that over here for a second 719 00:44:19,980 --> 00:44:24,270 because you need a receiving node. Yeah. So really the in the 720 00:44:24,270 --> 00:44:27,300 node business at the moment, it's a very small industry. I 721 00:44:27,300 --> 00:44:31,200 mean, mind you, key sand only got put into the lightning 722 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,990 stack, what, six months ago? 723 00:44:34,259 --> 00:44:39,119 Yes, the 20 is Yeah, was it 20 even 2019? Or was it 20? 724 00:44:39,150 --> 00:44:41,640 Yeah, I think it was it might have been 2020. So we're on the, 725 00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:45,960 on the knife's edge here. So things are just kind of spinning 726 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:52,320 up, but we have a use case. And node universe is well Sphinx 727 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,850 nodes. We've got those. I think there's an outfit called noddle 728 00:44:57,510 --> 00:45:04,260 or nodal in, in Swift. And then you have strike, which will do 729 00:45:04,260 --> 00:45:07,140 the keys end. At least that's I don't know if they would 730 00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:12,870 currently but they can. And, to me, this kind of led to a very 731 00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:17,460 logical next person to approach. And that's gray and from 732 00:45:17,460 --> 00:45:23,100 voltage, because voltage lets you spin up a node as you went 733 00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:28,080 through. And it's reasonably inexpensive. Although that's the 734 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,610 main thing I want to get to. What I've seen him do it. So he 735 00:45:32,610 --> 00:45:35,310 really spins up a node on voltage, which is completely 736 00:45:35,310 --> 00:45:39,330 void of any interface, anything, you have the keys you can't 737 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,790 have, there's no way for him to even look at anything, do 738 00:45:41,790 --> 00:45:45,600 anything that would be helpful. But there's a lot of interfaces, 739 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,630 interfaces to different stats, programs, different wallets, 740 00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:53,700 different ways to basically, at the end, communicate with lnd is 741 00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:58,170 to tell to tell this one piece of software what to do. So and 742 00:45:58,170 --> 00:46:00,120 we're talking with him later today, I'm just going to tell 743 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,040 you right now, because we'll probably hear this after we 744 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,920 speak to him. But this would be the same for anybody who has 745 00:46:05,130 --> 00:46:08,340 this type of product. This and I don't know that maybe many more? 746 00:46:08,340 --> 00:46:11,190 I don't know, I haven't run across them. My ask would be the 747 00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:17,280 following. Can we implement the same process with the value for 748 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,710 value API, where you say, Okay, I want to pledge enable this 749 00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:27,930 podcast app. And if you're new, it's out now? Do you already 750 00:46:27,930 --> 00:46:30,660 have a podcast app that you'd like, you're excited about it? 751 00:46:30,660 --> 00:46:33,480 You don't need to change anything. I like this part. It's 752 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,390 like, okay, I like I don't want to get another podcast app. I 753 00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:40,200 like the one I'm using right now. There's this you know, I, 754 00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:44,610 it's almost like saying, We're Spotify, we've got Joe Rogan 755 00:46:44,610 --> 00:46:47,730 Come over here. Turns out, it's really hard to get people off of 756 00:46:47,730 --> 00:46:52,470 their podcast that they love them. It is it is religion to 757 00:46:52,470 --> 00:47:00,270 many people. So we're gonna lightning Ify your your app. And 758 00:47:00,270 --> 00:47:06,180 here's how it works. You buy $10 worth of Bitcoin lightning 759 00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:12,690 Bitcoin from voltage. And here's how it works. Okay, I want to do 760 00:47:12,690 --> 00:47:16,500 this view, click in your existing podcast app, I want to 761 00:47:16,650 --> 00:47:20,460 participate, I want to send streaming money, you click it, 762 00:47:20,490 --> 00:47:25,050 that's going to talk to the the node API, the voltage API, like, 763 00:47:25,050 --> 00:47:30,630 okay, new node needed. And and this is the this is really we 764 00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:33,450 have to talk about is, you know, what is the base cost? What is 765 00:47:33,450 --> 00:47:38,100 the absolute minimum that we can charge or that we have to charge 766 00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:43,110 or that is needed to run a very small basic node that is only 767 00:47:43,110 --> 00:47:47,130 going to send about 20 bucks a month in in lightning payments 768 00:47:47,130 --> 00:47:53,790 to different podcasts. So, in an ideal world, it's, you're good 769 00:47:53,790 --> 00:47:57,060 to go, Okay, you ready, you want to want to enable your podcast 770 00:47:57,060 --> 00:47:59,580 app, okay, let's get your credit card or you know, whatever 771 00:47:59,580 --> 00:48:04,260 payment method, and he put that in, and then within 45 seconds 772 00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:08,280 says, Okay being and the voltage notice is set up a bit is 773 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,120 authenticated with your app with the app that you're using, it 774 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:17,790 has loaded you up from the get go with $10, maybe there's 775 00:48:17,790 --> 00:48:22,800 packages, $5 $10 $20 2550, whatever, which you can top up 776 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,710 in a number of ways. But you're good to go from the minute that 777 00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:30,930 happens. So the node is created with $10 worth of satoshis on it 778 00:48:31,350 --> 00:48:38,490 from the get go. I like it. I think this can work. But the 779 00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:42,390 question is, what is the proposition? Do we give the do 780 00:48:42,390 --> 00:48:47,670 we do we build into it? Okay, you're. So now we have two 781 00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:51,360 players in the on the app side, we have the podcast player that 782 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,080 you're using. And then we have the wish you're already using. 783 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,140 And they need to get a piece because that's the promise we've 784 00:48:58,140 --> 00:49:01,860 made. And then you have the voltage or the node, which has 785 00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:08,670 to be paid for. And I presume that this is very, very small in 786 00:49:08,670 --> 00:49:12,510 cost and resources. But it either has to be paid a piece up 787 00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:17,790 front, so you pay $10 and you get $9 worth of value 788 00:49:17,790 --> 00:49:22,380 constrained and and the node has to take a percent. It can't be 789 00:49:22,380 --> 00:49:22,860 free. 790 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,450 Right? Can't be free. And it also can't be so expensive that 791 00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:30,120 did if it lies dormant for a while that it's just going to 792 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,590 become become an anchor. 793 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,430 Right, which so the couple things I like is you can do your 794 00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:38,190 voltage node by month if you don't pay, it disappears, it's 795 00:49:38,190 --> 00:49:42,420 gone. Over and out you if you want a new one, you start over 796 00:49:42,420 --> 00:49:50,370 again. Part two is we could make this a beautiful experience. So 797 00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:54,570 someone who you said I want you to pay money for these podcasts. 798 00:49:54,570 --> 00:49:58,410 I'm asking you, here's the way you do it. They've already 799 00:49:58,410 --> 00:50:02,220 decided they're going to do it. So then it's the offer, you 800 00:50:02,220 --> 00:50:04,980 know, so they know that money's coming out of their pocket. And 801 00:50:04,980 --> 00:50:09,150 so if the author is put 10 bucks in right now, the first month, 802 00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:14,220 it's $10, you get to spend all $10. We're taking one percentage 803 00:50:14,220 --> 00:50:18,780 point off of every, every payment you make. And I think 804 00:50:18,810 --> 00:50:22,950 there's a lot of ways that fees can be built on the back end of 805 00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:28,410 a node business. But also, I don't know if Graham or anyone 806 00:50:28,410 --> 00:50:32,970 is doing Fiat conversions, to Bitcoin to lightning, there's 807 00:50:32,970 --> 00:50:36,030 all kinds of fees there. There's ways to make money, but the 808 00:50:36,030 --> 00:50:39,630 experience has to be, you want to do it good. It's going to 809 00:50:39,630 --> 00:50:42,930 cost you money. And here you go. But everything else should be 810 00:50:42,930 --> 00:50:45,600 transparent. And I think it's possible. 811 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,700 Yeah, that the transparency, really, the transparency is the 812 00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:55,440 key. Because if you're going to everybody, everybody needs in 813 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,490 the chain needs to make these two needs to get peace. And if 814 00:50:59,490 --> 00:51:01,500 you if your tray, as long as you're transparent about what 815 00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:05,610 that piece is, I mean, that's fine. I mean, I think it's much 816 00:51:05,610 --> 00:51:10,170 more transparent than it is. If you look at something like a, I 817 00:51:10,170 --> 00:51:14,760 don't know, Patreon fee or some subs, or something like that, 818 00:51:14,910 --> 00:51:19,500 you know, and it's just like, he says, fee. You know, it's, 819 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,650 here's what I'm concerned about? Well, I am concerned and not a 820 00:51:22,650 --> 00:51:27,960 concern. I really like the idea of enabling existing apps. I 821 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:36,120 think I think that's a huge, a huge step forward. Just just for 822 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,850 the reason that it's very difficult to get people to try 823 00:51:38,850 --> 00:51:42,180 something to get someone to try a new app and put money into 824 00:51:42,180 --> 00:51:45,480 this new app. Because that's how they'll see it, they won't see 825 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,400 the lightning node. You know, they'll see a wallet indicator 826 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,840 in their podcast app. I see no reason for this. And you can't 827 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,410 there's nothing voltage is nowhere to go. So so the app 828 00:51:58,410 --> 00:52:00,300 then becomes your interface to the wallet. 829 00:52:01,230 --> 00:52:06,450 Well, and then there's also this aspect that wallet, lightning 830 00:52:06,450 --> 00:52:11,370 wallet developers are not going to necessarily be good podcast 831 00:52:11,370 --> 00:52:15,810 app developers. Because podcast app developers are focused on a 832 00:52:15,810 --> 00:52:20,340 good podcasting experience. Yep. And and lightning node. 833 00:52:20,580 --> 00:52:24,000 Lightning app developers are concentrating on a good 834 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,430 Lightning Experience. Yeah, those two things really don't 835 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,570 mesh very well. Yeah. And so I mean, it's really big. From a 836 00:52:30,570 --> 00:52:34,740 podcasting perspective, from having a good podcasting app. 837 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,730 You really want the podcast app developers to be the ones 838 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,810 designing the app. And then the lightning stuff really shouldn't 839 00:52:42,810 --> 00:52:43,530 be secondary. 840 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:50,040 I agree. And I think once and this is where I think we pay 841 00:52:50,070 --> 00:52:54,750 play an important role. Because we are in the we are directing 842 00:52:54,750 --> 00:52:58,200 traffic, we are a part of the system. And I think it has to 843 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,980 work that way with with an API. But the good news is no one 844 00:53:01,980 --> 00:53:05,220 touches the money, the money goes straight from the listener 845 00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:09,390 into the designated wallets of the recipients it no one has to 846 00:53:09,390 --> 00:53:13,170 hold on to money or keys or anything like that. But what 847 00:53:13,170 --> 00:53:17,220 excites me is now all of a sudden, if we can get our API 848 00:53:17,220 --> 00:53:22,890 in. Now we can add stuff like a boost button, which is synced to 849 00:53:22,890 --> 00:53:25,710 the timeline, you know, now you're giving now you're giving 850 00:53:25,770 --> 00:53:30,540 our app developers all kinds of fun stuff to work with. And I 851 00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:33,870 think community chapters will also come out of it. Because now 852 00:53:33,870 --> 00:53:38,850 you have, you know, I can go back to, you know, six weeks 853 00:53:38,850 --> 00:53:43,470 ago. And I can pull out every single connection that that the 854 00:53:43,470 --> 00:53:47,340 podcast index got from the Sphinx infrastructure. I mean, 855 00:53:47,340 --> 00:53:51,210 it's a beautiful database, it's there to pull, just data sitting 856 00:53:51,210 --> 00:53:54,720 there, to pull out and to do timeline stuff, and all kinds of 857 00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:58,470 fun things with and community chapters. I mean, there's so 858 00:53:58,470 --> 00:54:01,050 many different things that I think can be solved with this. 859 00:54:01,380 --> 00:54:04,500 I would love to be able to have like a community chapter system, 860 00:54:04,740 --> 00:54:10,200 where when it pops up in the app, you can boost the guy that 861 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,850 made the chapter image or like, you go Yeah, visual chapter. 862 00:54:14,850 --> 00:54:15,840 Yes, yes, 863 00:54:15,870 --> 00:54:16,890 yes, yes. Yes. 864 00:54:17,130 --> 00:54:19,950 I mean, it's just not just Dred Scott. But like you could you 865 00:54:19,950 --> 00:54:24,060 know, if it's community chapters, if this other guy got 866 00:54:24,060 --> 00:54:26,490 in the mix, and put a put a chapter marker here with some 867 00:54:26,490 --> 00:54:29,220 cool art in it or something like that, yeah, in drips, God 868 00:54:29,220 --> 00:54:32,040 approves it, you know, then they both get a ticket book, get a 869 00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:33,840 paying on that ticket pace. 870 00:54:34,259 --> 00:54:37,229 Now enter the next piece of business, which I think voltage 871 00:54:37,229 --> 00:54:40,919 could also provide or another node node provider, and that's 872 00:54:40,919 --> 00:54:43,889 the podcaster side because now you need some stuff on the back 873 00:54:43,889 --> 00:54:48,929 end. So I'm receiving stuff. This is where I'd love for, you 874 00:54:48,929 --> 00:54:55,889 know, in an accounting system, a rewards based system. You can 875 00:54:55,889 --> 00:55:01,049 also you know, this is where a potential chat server would 876 00:55:01,049 --> 00:55:06,929 live, it can all be on the same podcaster receiving system. 877 00:55:07,919 --> 00:55:13,829 Okay, now, here's the code already exists. You know, this 878 00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:17,909 is the my my raspy Blitz, which is a Raspberry Pi where I'm 879 00:55:17,909 --> 00:55:22,559 running a full node here in the in the studio. I can already set 880 00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:26,729 up the Sphinx chat and interact from my node to the Sphinx nodes 881 00:55:26,729 --> 00:55:28,349 in the same chat environment. 882 00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:33,240 Well, that brings up something that did I know that I saw the 883 00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:37,320 other day in the news. I mean, there's a lot of proposed 884 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,040 regulations, it was in the nation using a lot of Bitcoin 885 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,560 regulation. Do you know anything about that? And how? Because I 886 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,740 know there's a there's a lot of trepidation within the Bitcoin 887 00:55:46,740 --> 00:55:50,640 world about some of these new regulations. And the tracking is 888 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:55,140 supposed to be happening even where it's something like I 889 00:55:55,140 --> 00:55:59,820 forget the limits, but they still are fairly aggressive. I 890 00:55:59,820 --> 00:56:01,830 mean, maybe Do you know anything about that? 891 00:56:02,399 --> 00:56:05,729 Well, I know a little bit about both sides and both sides is one 892 00:56:05,729 --> 00:56:11,819 is, for obvious reasons. The entire financial world does not 893 00:56:11,819 --> 00:56:15,509 like what's happening. Every country wants their own central 894 00:56:15,509 --> 00:56:18,419 bank digital currency, it's a whole nother conversation as to 895 00:56:18,419 --> 00:56:23,309 why the protectionism of the US dollar is always done with a 896 00:56:23,309 --> 00:56:27,629 huge military force. So if you think that you can go against 897 00:56:27,629 --> 00:56:32,639 the US dollar, go look at the Middle East, and, and tell me 898 00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:36,299 what your future looks like that I think they're attacking it. 899 00:56:36,299 --> 00:56:39,719 And first of all, there's no attacking it, I can, we can be 900 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:44,759 shuffling pieces of paper with the with transaction IDs, with 901 00:56:44,969 --> 00:56:48,929 the sneakernet, and it would still work. So there's no way to 902 00:56:48,929 --> 00:56:54,509 really stop it, what can be stopped is taxation. So the 903 00:56:54,509 --> 00:56:57,839 minute you take the money out of the Bitcoin system, which is 904 00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:00,479 what they will be doing, they will be, and they have been, 905 00:57:00,689 --> 00:57:03,869 they'll be looking at when you acquired it, and you'll have to 906 00:57:03,869 --> 00:57:06,359 have good records, luckily, that's available that's built 907 00:57:06,359 --> 00:57:11,009 into the system. And, and he will have to declare capital 908 00:57:11,009 --> 00:57:15,989 gains on any increase that came along the way, which is fair, or 909 00:57:16,019 --> 00:57:19,679 reasonably fair within the confines of the system that we 910 00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:26,399 live in. So that's one mechanism of control. And the obvious 911 00:57:27,869 --> 00:57:31,979 mission is to have people all using Bitcoin internally, and 912 00:57:31,979 --> 00:57:36,269 not, you know, making some money spending it in in fiat currency. 913 00:57:36,629 --> 00:57:40,589 But keeping that within the within the ecosystem, and we're 914 00:57:40,589 --> 00:57:43,079 not there yet, people right now they're in the stack and SATs 915 00:57:43,079 --> 00:57:44,999 business, which is good, because they're saving, and they're 916 00:57:44,999 --> 00:57:48,179 making money, but there's got to be a way for it to be spent. So 917 00:57:48,179 --> 00:57:53,009 the cryptography is what they're trying to do by saying, You 918 00:57:53,009 --> 00:58:00,209 can't have a cryptographic wallet or system on your device. 919 00:58:01,259 --> 00:58:04,499 And I think that's what they're trying to do that. And, and 920 00:58:06,270 --> 00:58:06,960 personally, I 921 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:11,400 think the whole conversation about we can't check on a 922 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,150 terrorist iPhone, we need to have the private keys. I don't 923 00:58:15,150 --> 00:58:18,540 think it's about terrorism at all. I think it's it's about 924 00:58:18,540 --> 00:58:21,780 money. And it's about Bitcoin and total control. 925 00:58:23,580 --> 00:58:27,750 Yeah, that's, I think you're right, of course, but then I 926 00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:31,110 just wanted to bring it up, because there's a fee, people 927 00:58:31,110 --> 00:58:35,850 need to know when they get in to this to the Bitcoin ecosystem, 928 00:58:36,780 --> 00:58:42,240 then now you do have, it's not like it's just free of any 929 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,000 regulation or anything like that. I mean, you when you're in 930 00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,000 big, just cut just like when you if you make if you're making 931 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,880 money off advertising in your podcast, right now, you have to 932 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,390 pay taxes on the income. Yeah, and the same with the same with 933 00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:58,230 Bitcoin, when you've got, it's still money. And it's still 934 00:58:58,470 --> 00:59:01,620 you've made a gain. So you still have to, you know, there's, 935 00:59:01,860 --> 00:59:06,210 there's a lot of people that there's a lot of people out 936 00:59:06,210 --> 00:59:09,780 there that misunderstand that Bitcoin is, is a completely 937 00:59:09,780 --> 00:59:13,950 unregulated financial instrument. And it's not. So you 938 00:59:13,950 --> 00:59:16,380 just need you need to make sure that when you get in there, 939 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,930 like, I guess what brought me and brought it up, because you 940 00:59:18,930 --> 00:59:20,790 were talking about the reporting, you know, that kind 941 00:59:20,790 --> 00:59:23,670 of thing. If you're a podcaster and you're, you're making money 942 00:59:23,670 --> 00:59:27,300 in Bitcoin, if your local regulations say that you're, you 943 00:59:27,300 --> 00:59:32,250 know, that that's a, an equity or taxed in this way. You got to 944 00:59:32,250 --> 00:59:32,940 keep up with it. 945 00:59:33,029 --> 00:59:37,349 Right. Which is and and that's relatively easy. I mean, the 946 00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:40,769 tools are there to track it and the actual transactions 947 00:59:40,770 --> 00:59:44,400 are there forever. It's actually easier than today. This is much 948 00:59:44,940 --> 00:59:47,820 easier than PayPal. I'll tell you that much. Straight up. 949 00:59:47,850 --> 00:59:54,690 Yeah. So So that's, that's my mission I for myself, and of 950 00:59:54,690 --> 00:59:56,670 course it whichever way and we're going to talk to Dan 951 00:59:56,670 --> 01:00:00,900 Benjamin in a moment about you know, that The current state of 952 01:00:00,900 --> 01:00:03,690 the industry with with statistics and, and how that's 953 01:00:03,690 --> 01:00:06,750 working or not working, and he has some interesting ideas about 954 01:00:06,750 --> 01:00:11,340 moving that forward. In my mind, all the things we've come up 955 01:00:11,340 --> 01:00:17,640 against in the past three months can be solved by by the 956 01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:24,060 lightning network, and by the really by the ledger. So if we 957 01:00:24,060 --> 01:00:26,940 can make it stick, we can make it work. And we can make it easy 958 01:00:26,940 --> 01:00:33,180 for the podcast app developers to bake right in, man that that 959 01:00:33,180 --> 01:00:34,470 would be beautiful. 960 01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:40,380 Did we ever find out whether or not you can put the timestamp 961 01:00:40,410 --> 01:00:42,360 into a lightning transaction? Well, it's 962 01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:43,800 timestamp by default. 963 01:00:45,150 --> 01:00:48,390 But I'm talking about like, if you let's just say that a 964 01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:52,950 podcast app didn't didn't have very good bandwidth at the 965 01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:55,320 moment, you're listening, and they needed to batch those 966 01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,580 transactions for later when you come back online. Can you 967 01:00:59,580 --> 01:01:03,960 timestamp metadata into those transactions so that it still 968 01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:08,880 tracks? Like where where it should have been looking for 969 01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,930 stats something for stats purpose? I don't know ever got 970 01:01:12,930 --> 01:01:13,680 an answer to that. 971 01:01:15,090 --> 01:01:16,620 So like an offline mode, you 972 01:01:16,620 --> 01:01:20,370 mean? Yeah. So like, if I'm, if I'm on a plane, and I'm 973 01:01:20,370 --> 01:01:24,810 listening to a podcast, and it's caching, it's building up these, 974 01:01:25,050 --> 01:01:28,770 like, 10 sets per minute on this podcast, I'm listening to them 975 01:01:28,770 --> 01:01:33,150 on a land and reattached to LTE. It now sends all those things as 976 01:01:33,150 --> 01:01:37,440 batch. Yeah, one trend, you know, could Is there a way to 977 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,680 timestamp those and with metadata in some way to say, 978 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,450 Okay, here's these transactions 979 01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,360 delays are delayed send to delayed send, I think will be 980 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:49,980 possible. Something like that. Yeah. By the time we fix that 5g 981 01:01:49,980 --> 01:01:53,280 will be so prevalent, you'll be fried from the radiation on the 982 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,690 plane anyway. You won't need to fix it. You'll be 5g everywhere. 983 01:01:57,780 --> 01:02:02,430 You just funnel your stats into your health care costs for food 984 01:02:02,430 --> 01:02:03,120 and your brain can 985 01:02:03,300 --> 01:02:06,630 tell you I've gone pretty deep on the on the whole Bitcoin 986 01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:12,750 maximalist thing, and I really see the why wouldn't you just be 987 01:02:12,750 --> 01:02:17,130 a sovereign individual with a node ID? And because you know, 988 01:02:17,130 --> 01:02:19,770 this splits thing that we've come up with, which is like a 989 01:02:19,770 --> 01:02:23,190 royalty payment, why wouldn't it all be so direct, we don't need 990 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,380 I mean, you need some government, but I can pay 991 01:02:25,380 --> 01:02:29,310 directly in real time for the services I want. I can be a 992 01:02:29,310 --> 01:02:33,330 citizen of a of a country, just bring my Bitcoin or just, you 993 01:02:33,330 --> 01:02:37,170 know, open, reopen my wallet on the other side of the world. I 994 01:02:37,170 --> 01:02:39,840 mean, it really changes things quite drastically. 995 01:02:41,010 --> 01:02:43,980 Yeah, I don't know if anybody's ever bought and sold, like 996 01:02:43,980 --> 01:02:47,970 precious metal coins, like gold coins. Like anything. Sure. And, 997 01:02:48,030 --> 01:02:54,180 you know, you, if you, if you go if you get into that world, it 998 01:02:54,180 --> 01:02:58,260 really is sort of an eye opening experience, because you go, you 999 01:02:58,260 --> 01:03:02,610 go into your local coin shop. And, and so let's just say, you 1000 01:03:02,610 --> 01:03:06,060 know, you bought the 20 Silver Eagles, and you go in there and 1001 01:03:06,060 --> 01:03:09,000 you say, Oh, I want to sell these 20 Silver Eagles. So I 1002 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,860 will have, you know, offer you the offer you this much less. 1003 01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:17,490 Yeah, well, you're like, Okay, sure, yeah, I'll take that. And 1004 01:03:17,490 --> 01:03:20,550 so they, they A lot of times, the guy just reaches his pocket 1005 01:03:20,550 --> 01:03:24,660 and just write down off $100 bills in his hands. And you 1006 01:03:24,660 --> 01:03:27,480 think it's like, oh, there's no receipt. It's like, No, no, it's 1007 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:28,050 just money. 1008 01:03:28,109 --> 01:03:31,139 Yeah, just your exchange money. It's a beautiful thing. 1009 01:03:31,470 --> 01:03:34,950 Yeah, it's crazy. It's years ago, I sold something. I was 1010 01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:38,730 like, Oh, wait, what? It was such a shocking experience that 1011 01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,090 Yeah. But that is kind of that way in the in the Bitcoin world. 1012 01:03:42,090 --> 01:03:44,850 It's like, Well, okay, these transactions just happen. And 1013 01:03:44,850 --> 01:03:45,240 they're done. 1014 01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:48,720 It's it doesn't doesn't there's no step three. 1015 01:03:49,020 --> 01:03:50,280 Yeah, exactly. 1016 01:03:51,390 --> 01:03:53,580 Anyway, so I'm very excited about this. I said, we're gonna 1017 01:03:53,580 --> 01:03:57,210 be talking to Graham from voltage later today. And, and 1018 01:03:57,210 --> 01:04:00,420 run this by him. But I did want to get it out there because 1019 01:04:00,420 --> 01:04:04,950 this, this should be an industry. And once you've got 1020 01:04:05,070 --> 01:04:09,000 people comfortable with the idea of flashing an app they already 1021 01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,960 use and and I just have this vision of a QR code. You know, 1022 01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,590 it's like you, you've got the app on your phone, and you go to 1023 01:04:16,590 --> 01:04:20,430 a website, scan the QR code, you're done. You know, unless of 1024 01:04:20,430 --> 01:04:23,970 course you have to, you're in startup mode and you got to put 1025 01:04:23,970 --> 01:04:27,690 your put your credit card in to get it up and running. But 1026 01:04:28,470 --> 01:04:30,570 otherwise, that should be completely transportable. 1027 01:04:31,770 --> 01:04:36,210 Yeah, yet this this fix app is such a new, it's almost it's 1028 01:04:36,210 --> 01:04:41,940 such a radical rethink of, of any thing that resembles a 1029 01:04:41,940 --> 01:04:47,580 podcast app, but it's so forward looking. Did it it's almost just 1030 01:04:47,790 --> 01:04:49,860 it's almost too much. I mean, like you get in there you're 1031 01:04:49,860 --> 01:04:52,260 like when you trying to get somebody into the ecosystem. 1032 01:04:53,610 --> 01:04:57,240 Eventually they get it like they get it on like day tours, but 1033 01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,960 it's the the paradigm is reversed. That's because they 1034 01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,710 have a different paradigm. Their paradigm is we chat. This is how 1035 01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:07,650 you talk to your friends. This is how this is all encompassing 1036 01:05:07,650 --> 01:05:11,760 all in one Super Chat. And they've added podcasting to it. 1037 01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:16,620 What the way it's just interface Really? What would be nice if 1038 01:05:16,620 --> 01:05:19,830 it's podcast app, and then oh, my goodness, look at all this 1039 01:05:19,830 --> 01:05:23,400 stuff. I can chat, I can add chapters, I can do all these 1040 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,090 other things. And and then even the concept of a tribe makes 1041 01:05:27,090 --> 01:05:28,230 super sense. You know? 1042 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,640 Did you see the discussions on the index the other day about or 1043 01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:38,670 on the social mastodon about doing that open discussion 1044 01:05:38,670 --> 01:05:42,000 system type deal? Because yes, that would be great. Yes, if you 1045 01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,570 have an app, like, you know, hyper catcher that's sitting, 1046 01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,500 this sitting there, allowing you to chat in those chats are 1047 01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:53,310 showing up in in sinks, like, right, but there'll be so 1048 01:05:53,310 --> 01:05:53,760 killer, 1049 01:05:53,820 --> 01:05:59,310 it's totally doable, as long as everybody has a node. And if you 1050 01:05:59,310 --> 01:06:02,220 have the node for paying, then you also have the node for doing 1051 01:06:02,220 --> 01:06:07,560 that kind of stuff. And the back end code is already there. It's 1052 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:09,510 done. You can install it right away. 1053 01:06:10,530 --> 01:06:16,230 That the channels, the channels get frustrating that, you know, 1054 01:06:16,410 --> 01:06:21,030 because I tried to send Spence Spencer, I tried to send him 1055 01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:27,540 some test SATs just after we got him set up and everything. And I 1056 01:06:27,540 --> 01:06:31,830 could send it from one look from one node, I could stand fine. 1057 01:06:31,830 --> 01:06:35,580 And from another node, it just said, No, no route. 1058 01:06:35,850 --> 01:06:38,220 Yeah, you will, you're already three levels deeper than I want 1059 01:06:38,220 --> 01:06:42,210 anyone to ever go. Yeah, I mean, see that that's, and that's what 1060 01:06:42,420 --> 01:06:47,400 a lightning service provider like a breeze, like strike, like 1061 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:52,290 a voltage. And also, like Sphinx. That's their job. They 1062 01:06:52,290 --> 01:06:55,890 have to make sure that your that that there's routing on the back 1063 01:06:55,890 --> 01:07:00,000 end, they have to I mean, any any lightning wallet you get 1064 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:05,070 from an app store, they're allocating funds into a channel 1065 01:07:05,070 --> 01:07:05,940 for your app. 1066 01:07:07,020 --> 01:07:09,780 I wonder how strike one strike does it? I mean, surely 1067 01:07:09,780 --> 01:07:13,050 everybody that opens a strike wallet doesn't also have a note 1068 01:07:13,050 --> 01:07:15,360 the one to one note, customer ratio? 1069 01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,620 strike? Yeah, no, no, they're I think they're basically one big 1070 01:07:19,620 --> 01:07:20,340 supernode. 1071 01:07:21,060 --> 01:07:23,580 Yeah, yeah. So that that seems easier to manage. 1072 01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,940 Yes. But it's a central point of failure. There's a lot of 1073 01:07:26,940 --> 01:07:30,840 downside. You can easily be de platformed in that in that 1074 01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:35,700 scenario. There's a lot of things that I can see being 1075 01:07:35,700 --> 01:07:37,980 problem, but you know, we haven't really spoken to jack in 1076 01:07:37,980 --> 01:07:39,450 detail about it. So I don't know 1077 01:07:40,260 --> 01:07:42,540 that that's one good thing that that like sir Spencer, he was 1078 01:07:42,540 --> 01:07:46,530 like, I want to be in this game. I want to be I want I want to be 1079 01:07:46,530 --> 01:07:48,600 an ecosystem. But I want to do it the right way from the 1080 01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:49,080 beginning. 1081 01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,540 Right. Right. Right. Well, and we're discovering that so I 1082 01:07:51,540 --> 01:07:55,740 appreciate his boldness to jump in, and, and not worry about 1083 01:07:55,740 --> 01:07:56,730 getting scraped. And 1084 01:07:58,290 --> 01:08:01,380 that's what he said. He told me, he's like, I had not real good 1085 01:08:01,380 --> 01:08:03,180 at this kind of stuff. I'm not, I'm not. 1086 01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,030 Yeah, that's good. You're gonna 1087 01:08:06,030 --> 01:08:08,100 He's like, you had to hold my hand through the whole thing as 1088 01:08:08,430 --> 01:08:09,000 well. 1089 01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:12,270 So he does, so he has a node up and running right now. That's 1090 01:08:12,270 --> 01:08:12,870 all working. 1091 01:08:13,290 --> 01:08:15,900 Yes. And he's got to travel and things with his podcast in it. 1092 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:16,680 And 1093 01:08:17,340 --> 01:08:19,650 go like, What? What podcast is it? 1094 01:08:20,910 --> 01:08:24,210 Oh, a bowl after bowl I think is what is called. 1095 01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:26,640 Okay. Oh, 1096 01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:28,650 God. Oh, yeah. 1097 01:08:28,650 --> 01:08:30,930 I'll have to look that up on the tribes. It's another one of 1098 01:08:30,930 --> 01:08:33,990 those things. You got to go to tribes in the web browser first. 1099 01:08:34,259 --> 01:08:38,279 Yeah. You know, he was having trouble joining podcasting. 2.0 1100 01:08:38,549 --> 01:08:39,269 tribe. 1101 01:08:39,330 --> 01:08:44,310 There's there's issues. I mean, there's there's also just issues 1102 01:08:44,310 --> 01:08:48,420 with you know, it's it's big infrastructure. waymon trot 1103 01:08:48,450 --> 01:08:52,350 tribes dot Sphinx chat is not Yeah, I'm not getting anything 1104 01:08:52,440 --> 01:08:53,070 for it was 1105 01:08:53,070 --> 01:08:54,690 there? It was down this morning. 1106 01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,610 Oh, okay. So they're working on it. Got it. 1107 01:08:56,639 --> 01:08:57,479 Yeah. Yeah. 1108 01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:00,690 Well, yeah. Anyway, so. 1109 01:09:01,620 --> 01:09:04,680 So I'm just gonna be clear with you, Dave, my, and I know, you 1110 01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:09,240 know it, but my vision is if we can get the lightning in. So 1111 01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,780 many other things fall into place. Yeah. And it's the 1112 01:09:12,780 --> 01:09:16,230 future. It's where it's where it's where it's like everyone 1113 01:09:16,230 --> 01:09:19,980 said, Oh, that's web 3.0. Well, yeah, let's build it. Everyone's 1114 01:09:19,980 --> 01:09:22,560 talking. Yeah, everyone's talking. 1115 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,790 Well, with the web, the lightning is the future and the 1116 01:09:26,790 --> 01:09:29,970 things that are holding, the things that make it difficult 1117 01:09:29,970 --> 01:09:32,100 are the same things that make anything that the beginning 1118 01:09:32,100 --> 01:09:37,200 difficult. It's, there's all of the all of the all beginning 1119 01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,880 technologies are like this. Yeah. And so you have to step 1120 01:09:41,910 --> 01:09:45,660 over the box, and you have to do all these kinds of things to get 1121 01:09:45,660 --> 01:09:50,160 it to work because the lightning network itself is so new. Yeah, 1122 01:09:50,220 --> 01:09:54,060 that you know, but it's got all the pieces so I mean, we can 1123 01:09:54,060 --> 01:09:56,790 marry them together. It's just, it'll be a bumpy ride for a 1124 01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:57,210 little while. 1125 01:09:57,630 --> 01:10:02,340 So So once we figured out If we can get a partner on the other 1126 01:10:02,340 --> 01:10:06,540 side to talk to the API, how long What do you think it'll 1127 01:10:06,540 --> 01:10:09,810 take to get to get the the payment, the value for value API 1128 01:10:09,810 --> 01:10:10,440 up and running? 1129 01:10:11,670 --> 01:10:14,970 I don't think that will take very long. All the pieces are 1130 01:10:14,970 --> 01:10:15,150 there. 1131 01:10:15,150 --> 01:10:16,860 Good answer, Dave Jones? 1132 01:10:18,330 --> 01:10:21,630 Yeah. No, and don't answer 1133 01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:28,410 no more questions. Period. You're hilarious. No, it's it. I 1134 01:10:28,620 --> 01:10:31,680 mean, famous last words. And I really don't think it would take 1135 01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,790 that long. Because once you have, we're indexing the value 1136 01:10:35,790 --> 01:10:42,000 block. And so for for apps that just need if we're interfacing 1137 01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:43,830 with lightning service providers, we would just be able 1138 01:10:43,830 --> 01:10:48,000 to give them that. I mean, yeah, it's just there. Yeah. And so 1139 01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,720 they and they, and we were doing all this stuff already, like 1140 01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,750 making sure that the value block is coming from an HTTPS feed, 1141 01:10:54,780 --> 01:10:58,410 make sure the district gets valid, all that kind of jazz. So 1142 01:10:58,470 --> 01:11:00,780 I think I mean, I don't see how there would be it would take 1143 01:11:00,780 --> 01:11:05,550 very long on our side. Yeah. All right. Famous last word. 1144 01:11:05,910 --> 01:11:08,370 Well, next week, we'll have an update, we'll let everybody 1145 01:11:08,370 --> 01:11:12,090 know, after we've spoken, and maybe someone out there has an 1146 01:11:12,090 --> 01:11:15,030 idea. Or maybe they're like, hey, I've got this stuff in my 1147 01:11:15,030 --> 01:11:18,330 head, I think I can do this. Or here's another way of looking at 1148 01:11:18,810 --> 01:11:21,810 offsetting the cost or here's how I can get the cost lower. I 1149 01:11:21,810 --> 01:11:25,830 don't know. But it has to scale. And I'd rather push people 1150 01:11:25,830 --> 01:11:29,670 towards a invisible full node that they don't really have to 1151 01:11:29,670 --> 01:11:33,180 know about. Because once they have that, then the whole world, 1152 01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,190 the whole world will open to them. 1153 01:11:35,970 --> 01:11:39,330 Well, that really is the beauty of things. Things to you are 1154 01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,670 your hand. Do you have a nose? Yeah, and you don't 1155 01:11:41,670 --> 01:11:44,250 know it? Really? That's I agree. It's beautiful. 1156 01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,460 Yeah, they really have a beautiful product. It's brain 1157 01:11:47,460 --> 01:11:50,850 twister on the pot for a podcaster to get into. But it is 1158 01:11:50,850 --> 01:11:55,110 a beautiful product. Do we want to thank some donors? 1159 01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:57,390 Yes. And then we got to get Dan on because it's gonna be an 1160 01:11:57,390 --> 01:11:58,380 eight hour episode. 1161 01:11:59,850 --> 01:12:00,780 We're kicking off 1162 01:12:00,780 --> 01:12:03,570 the new year just right, everybody. Yes, this is a value 1163 01:12:03,570 --> 01:12:06,780 for value, the whole everything we're talking about. And I'm 1164 01:12:06,780 --> 01:12:09,420 going to do a lot more work myself. And this year on 1165 01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,050 reminding people re explaining maybe refining the value for 1166 01:12:13,050 --> 01:12:16,800 value store a story, the value for value model the successes of 1167 01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:21,900 it. And this is a perfect example. We started this on our 1168 01:12:21,900 --> 01:12:26,820 own dime. And but you know, just putting the work into it, and 1169 01:12:26,820 --> 01:12:31,890 have asked anyone who likes what we're doing. derive value from 1170 01:12:31,890 --> 01:12:34,110 it. You might be an app developer, you might be a 1171 01:12:34,110 --> 01:12:36,420 hosting company might be a podcast listener, you might be a 1172 01:12:36,420 --> 01:12:38,820 podcast, you might be someone who just likes moving the world 1173 01:12:38,820 --> 01:12:41,640 forward. whatever value you get from it, turn that into a 1174 01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,120 number, go to podcast. index.org scroll down at the bottom, 1175 01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,060 there's a big red Donate button you can also donate with with 1176 01:12:48,060 --> 01:12:53,040 lightning, Bitcoin, lightning. It keeps everything running. It 1177 01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:57,450 keeps all the machines whirring. It keeps us moving forward. And 1178 01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,300 well, one day, we hope to have everybody participating in a 1179 01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:05,880 nice value flow. And we love to thank our contributors who gave 1180 01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:08,130 us their time, their talent and their treasure today. 1181 01:13:09,540 --> 01:13:14,610 And we got a good group. It's starting off with Victor Victor 1182 01:13:14,610 --> 01:13:20,130 Gonzalez Faria and know that I tried to channel my inner Alex 1183 01:13:20,130 --> 01:13:26,850 Trebek there. He would drop it. It's it's a rock wall. 1184 01:13:30,510 --> 01:13:32,430 Or like hilarya Baldwin. 1185 01:13:34,110 --> 01:13:35,940 What do you say how you called to come up to come? 1186 01:13:38,010 --> 01:13:40,350 Got from Boston, but I can't say cucumber. 1187 01:13:40,710 --> 01:13:45,300 Okay. Is Victor gave us $100 1188 01:13:45,330 --> 01:13:47,550 Wow. Thanks, Victor. 1189 01:13:47,850 --> 01:13:50,760 short note he just says Great job guys. Keep it up. 1190 01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:52,950 No, thank you. We will we will. 1191 01:13:55,020 --> 01:14:00,810 This is a long note from let me scan to the end and make sure 1192 01:14:00,810 --> 01:14:03,030 it's not supposed to be anonymous. Surely. No, it is 1193 01:14:03,030 --> 01:14:08,970 not. From Lauren ball. I don't know if Lauren is a boy or a 1194 01:14:08,970 --> 01:14:17,370 girl. We will find out. Lauren ball gave us $24.20 and it says 1195 01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:22,830 Happy New Year stats and sets. This donation is the first of 1196 01:14:22,830 --> 01:14:26,700 what will become a recurring reoccurring monthly. Adam if you 1197 01:14:26,700 --> 01:14:30,060 could please queue up the RTD to karma jingle which I would like 1198 01:14:30,060 --> 01:14:33,600 to have as a de fragmenting this I have been wanting to donate 1199 01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,950 for several months. In the fragmenting I like that. Is that 1200 01:14:37,950 --> 01:14:38,850 look at D douchey. 1201 01:14:38,940 --> 01:14:42,660 I guess yeah, it makes sense. defrag that person? Yeah, he's 1202 01:14:43,140 --> 01:14:44,520 different. All right, here we go. 1203 01:14:46,830 --> 01:14:47,640 You've got 1204 01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:50,700 karma. 1205 01:14:53,790 --> 01:14:54,660 You've been a fragment. 1206 01:14:54,780 --> 01:14:56,220 You've been defragmented 1207 01:14:57,060 --> 01:14:59,550 since I have been wanting to donate for several months and 1208 01:14:59,550 --> 01:15:02,940 finally freed up some extra cash to support a movement I fully 1209 01:15:02,940 --> 01:15:03,630 agree with. 1210 01:15:03,990 --> 01:15:04,440 Oh good 1211 01:15:04,470 --> 01:15:07,200 if there if there is an extra machine available for my monthly 1212 01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,500 donations to cover to cover and this is not bad juju in the tech 1213 01:15:10,500 --> 01:15:15,570 community. May I have a machine named ID? 10? t? No. No, you 1214 01:15:15,570 --> 01:15:17,940 can. That is not acceptable. What 1215 01:15:17,940 --> 01:15:21,990 is I'm not familiar with ICD 10 T. That's an ID 10 t error. 1216 01:15:22,530 --> 01:15:26,880 If you write it out, Id one zero T. Yes, late. It's leet. Speak 1217 01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:27,480 for idiot. 1218 01:15:29,580 --> 01:15:32,610 I got it. Yeah, that's no sysadmin 1219 01:15:32,610 --> 01:15:35,880 jokes. Yeah. That's like, like we used to talk to our clients. 1220 01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,120 And we talked about the locally managed network operating 1221 01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:39,810 protocol. 1222 01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:43,980 lmnop Yes, yes. Nothing. 1223 01:15:46,500 --> 01:15:49,110 They go Oh, yeah, yeah, it does that come with your advanced 1224 01:15:49,110 --> 01:15:52,290 statistics analysis package. ASAP. 1225 01:15:53,790 --> 01:15:56,970 Okay, tell me real quick as I interrupt this note, what was 1226 01:15:56,970 --> 01:15:57,840 data barn? 1227 01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:02,640 Oh, data barn mentioned that the other day? Yeah. I with a bunch 1228 01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:05,790 of guys, when we had a whole bunch of.com money. We put 1229 01:16:05,790 --> 01:16:12,450 together a data, a data colo facility in Amsterdam on the 1230 01:16:12,450 --> 01:16:18,090 Amsterdam internet exchange. This was in 2000. We had 1231 01:16:18,090 --> 01:16:21,990 everything the generators, the unit, the whole thing all set 1232 01:16:21,990 --> 01:16:27,960 up, and was very capital intensive. And for obvious 1233 01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,650 reasons, but that wasn't the problem. The problem is I had a 1234 01:16:31,650 --> 01:16:35,850 50% partnership. And my part we also had a helicopter, 1235 01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:42,420 fractional ownership company, and and the data barn. And he 1236 01:16:42,450 --> 01:16:47,490 not only went broke, he left the country turns out and I'd known 1237 01:16:47,490 --> 01:16:52,470 him for 10 years. He had a fake identity. He was wanted by the 1238 01:16:52,470 --> 01:16:59,640 Scotland Yard for Grand Theft Auto and trafficking MDMA. Oh, 1239 01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:05,310 yeah. Oh, this is really this was I had a full on like, I had 1240 01:17:05,310 --> 01:17:08,760 to go away for a week and just read you just collect my 1241 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:13,170 thoughts, the betrayal of someone you really know. Yeah. 1242 01:17:13,620 --> 01:17:18,180 And this was all in Amsterdam, was I mean that that, that took 1243 01:17:18,180 --> 01:17:21,420 me out. I was just like, what? And yeah, we had another 1244 01:17:21,420 --> 01:17:25,080 business called Jambi just anarchy made by you, which was a 1245 01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,350 very early YouTube. And we had we had taken a different route. 1246 01:17:28,350 --> 01:17:32,730 We had clients who were paying broadcast clients. And the 1247 01:17:32,730 --> 01:17:36,060 minute this came out in the press, they were like, okay, 1248 01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:42,720 we're no longer customers. So I had to unwind everything. It was 1249 01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:47,670 very nasty. very nasty. Well, a lot of experience and a lot of 1250 01:17:47,670 --> 01:17:49,800 experience in how not to do stuff. That's 1251 01:17:50,940 --> 01:17:53,850 my secret identity is much better. You will never find out 1252 01:17:53,850 --> 01:17:54,630 about us. Don't worry about 1253 01:17:56,310 --> 01:18:04,290 it. Is it Anthony Quinn? No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't even 1254 01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:11,490 see. Well, I lost my place in in Laurens. Yeah, I didn't hear 1255 01:18:11,550 --> 01:18:18,510 okay. For PE BK AC. I don't know what that means. CAC. Me? I 1256 01:18:18,510 --> 01:18:20,850 don't know he'll have to explain that to you. As an avid listener 1257 01:18:20,850 --> 01:18:23,700 to podcast this show has helped me really understand that many 1258 01:18:23,700 --> 01:18:26,190 gears in the machine and technological challenges it 1259 01:18:26,190 --> 01:18:29,970 takes to make podcasting possible. sincere thank you to 1260 01:18:29,970 --> 01:18:33,060 all persons responsible for pushing the experience forward. 1261 01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,510 Spotify has not been on my phone for several months now because 1262 01:18:36,510 --> 01:18:42,900 of my poor quality of experience in too many fucking ads. Said 1263 01:18:43,380 --> 01:18:47,700 personally I am tired of being sold to. We experienced too many 1264 01:18:47,700 --> 01:18:51,840 ads in our daily lives. So I run pod so I run pod verse podcast 1265 01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:55,290 addict and podcast guru now. I love what these app developers 1266 01:18:55,290 --> 01:18:58,320 are doing to earn their podcasting 2.0 certified bad 1267 01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:02,970 yeah, slap it on. Wow, yours. 1268 01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:07,290 Shortly I plan on buying some Bitcoin to play in this new 1269 01:19:07,290 --> 01:19:09,300 methodology of direct support are all 1270 01:19:10,110 --> 01:19:10,860 beautiful. 1271 01:19:11,220 --> 01:19:14,670 Admittedly, I do not fully understand all of digital 1272 01:19:14,670 --> 01:19:18,120 currency. This show has educated me about it far more than I ever 1273 01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:19,980 anticipated. The long note 1274 01:19:20,340 --> 01:19:21,240 it's no 1275 01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:26,070 fun idea. Imagine a podcast that raises money for charity and 1276 01:19:26,070 --> 01:19:29,670 being able as a listener yes to stream money directly to the 1277 01:19:29,670 --> 01:19:31,650 charity listening to the podcast. 1278 01:19:31,679 --> 01:19:34,589 This is you know what Tina said? I want 1279 01:19:35,340 --> 01:19:36,390 to share it again. 1280 01:19:36,450 --> 01:19:39,570 Oh yeah. No, she said I want to foundation so when when when 1281 01:19:39,570 --> 01:19:42,360 your magic money machine as she calls it, when it when it's 1282 01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:49,650 running? Whatever we have coming in to our nodes like no agenda, 1283 01:19:49,650 --> 01:19:52,680 etc. Now you and I we get a split off of this show as well. 1284 01:19:52,890 --> 01:19:55,980 She wants to take a split of that and go into a wallet for 1285 01:19:55,980 --> 01:19:57,510 foundation. She wants to start 1286 01:19:58,950 --> 01:20:02,610 it seems was like, yeah, fantastic. Let's do it. I love 1287 01:20:02,610 --> 01:20:03,810 it. I love that idea. 1288 01:20:04,140 --> 01:20:06,780 Okay, so you know how you go to the grocery store sometimes and 1289 01:20:06,780 --> 01:20:09,090 they're like, you get to the register and they say, Oh, do 1290 01:20:09,090 --> 01:20:12,060 you want to pitch in and a $1 $3 $5 1291 01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,450 to support our troops? Cancer breast cancer? Yep, sure. I do 1292 01:20:15,450 --> 01:20:18,480 it all the time. I'm always the $5 guy. I always knew 1293 01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:22,830 that in Perth, you could you could say, Okay, this, this 1294 01:20:22,830 --> 01:20:27,090 week's episode is going to be a 10% split to this charity and 1295 01:20:27,090 --> 01:20:27,210 all 1296 01:20:27,210 --> 01:20:31,440 you need is a node. Yeah, just give me your note. Hey, charity, 1297 01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:32,430 what's your node ID? 1298 01:20:33,030 --> 01:20:35,520 Yep, should be on your website should be on your on your 1299 01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:39,060 business cards. In is permanent. If somebody listens to that 1300 01:20:39,060 --> 01:20:43,080 episode 10 years from now, it will work. Yep. 1301 01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:50,640 Yes. So yes, yes, Lauren. You're living the future. He's cracking 1302 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:52,530 the code. Totally. 1303 01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,680 Several other ideas have come to mind about the implementation of 1304 01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:59,070 your current tags and stuff too. I should just join the social 1305 01:20:59,070 --> 01:21:02,970 already. Yes, you should. Oh fun side note just last week I was 1306 01:21:02,970 --> 01:21:06,480 working I was at work listening to a note into episode look down 1307 01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:09,060 at my phone during the cover our segment and was able to actually 1308 01:21:09,060 --> 01:21:12,930 see the images of art john and Adam were talking nice 1309 01:21:12,990 --> 01:21:16,920 nice effing rad stuff that is being developed. I'm excited 1310 01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:21,210 about that. Cool. I'm excited to be ahead of the curve in this 1311 01:21:21,210 --> 01:21:24,450 major development that is now in motion. Apologies for the 1312 01:21:24,450 --> 01:21:27,000 rambling long note Happy New Year to everyone peace and 1313 01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:29,580 prosperity Lauren, PS go podcasting. 1314 01:21:31,230 --> 01:21:36,930 You know, I've been using pod friend in the car. And it does 1315 01:21:37,020 --> 01:21:43,800 he really does a good job of displaying the show name etc. 1316 01:21:44,940 --> 01:21:49,890 But no album art yet. And I am so excited about the day when 1317 01:21:49,890 --> 01:21:55,410 I'm playing a show in the car and then the the chapter images 1318 01:21:55,410 --> 01:21:58,740 will change on the display. I don't know if it's possible, but 1319 01:21:59,190 --> 01:22:00,960 my goodness, wouldn't that be beautiful? 1320 01:22:05,220 --> 01:22:08,910 The whole idea that you have a web app that is interfacing to 1321 01:22:08,910 --> 01:22:11,610 your car stereo is just blowing my mind 1322 01:22:11,610 --> 01:22:17,070 and you know, I've been using graphene Oh s okay kicks ass 1323 01:22:17,070 --> 01:22:20,610 when it comes to whether you just regular in the browser or 1324 01:22:20,610 --> 01:22:25,740 if I've saved it as a as a web app. It works. You know, it pops 1325 01:22:25,740 --> 01:22:29,220 up on the lock screen so you can pause it you know, it's always 1326 01:22:29,220 --> 01:22:33,060 playing it doesn't crap out in the background. Phenomenal 1327 01:22:33,060 --> 01:22:34,530 difference with iOS. 1328 01:22:34,889 --> 01:22:37,889 So the pw a fully baked in there. 1329 01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,310 Yeah, it's great. Yeah, it really is very cool. 1330 01:22:43,170 --> 01:22:46,980 Get a new you have a new automatic payment profile from 1331 01:22:46,980 --> 01:22:53,490 Christopher reamer. We've got he's $10 a month and 1332 01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,840 subscription. Thank you Chris Radek couldn't find in a wait 1333 01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:02,160 here. Yeah. didn't have enough, actually. Thank you. Dave loves 1334 01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,650 listening on the in on the board meetings. You guys make me laugh 1335 01:23:04,650 --> 01:23:05,460 and I learned stuff. It's 1336 01:23:05,460 --> 01:23:08,190 great. Yay. It's success. Yeah. 1337 01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:12,870 What bought Now tell me what company what media company has 1338 01:23:12,870 --> 01:23:16,740 board meetings a that you can attend be better enjoyable. 1339 01:23:17,340 --> 01:23:18,780 And see that you learn things? 1340 01:23:20,580 --> 01:23:21,840 Where does that ever happen? 1341 01:23:22,140 --> 01:23:26,460 Yeah. Thank you, Chris. We have a peerage problem, by the way, 1342 01:23:26,460 --> 01:23:29,400 because we're out of we're out of servers. 1343 01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:32,730 Oh, well. Well, you know, what's next? We have to start naming 1344 01:23:32,730 --> 01:23:33,660 lightning nodes. 1345 01:23:34,440 --> 01:23:39,330 Oh, yes. You in the US service have sponsored lightning node 1346 01:23:39,330 --> 01:23:40,260 304. 1347 01:23:41,550 --> 01:23:45,180 The whole node? Well, you can actually name the node IDs. Oh, 1348 01:23:45,210 --> 01:23:48,480 that's me. every node can have and it it carries through the 1349 01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:52,980 network. So you see curry cash. That's me. And you see podcast 1350 01:23:52,980 --> 01:23:53,580 index. 1351 01:23:54,450 --> 01:23:55,080 Yeah, that's true. I 1352 01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:58,890 think it's m m one.com. Or whatever. Whatever that website 1353 01:23:58,890 --> 01:24:03,360 is. You can explore the Explore the network, find all the nodes. 1354 01:24:04,170 --> 01:24:10,140 If anybody has an idea for peerage that play it yeah, it 1355 01:24:10,140 --> 01:24:16,080 can we say this if if somebody if somebody donates, like, some 1356 01:24:16,380 --> 01:24:21,390 obscene level of money like $5,000 I mean, we just announced 1357 01:24:21,480 --> 01:24:23,370 spin up a server just to name it for 1358 01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:27,930 No, no, no. I'll come over there. I will cook for you and 1359 01:24:27,930 --> 01:24:28,380 blow you. 1360 01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:30,930 martinis. 1361 01:24:32,310 --> 01:24:34,560 That's value for you. My friend 1362 01:24:34,890 --> 01:24:38,310 is too much like Hollywood is way too much Hollywood, 1363 01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:40,890 and our next supporter day. 1364 01:24:42,030 --> 01:24:44,100 Here, Matt, Matthew. 1365 01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:50,190 Paragon Paragon. I could not find a note from Matthew but 1366 01:24:50,190 --> 01:24:54,750 he'd gave us $10. Thank you. Thank you, Matthew. And then we 1367 01:24:54,750 --> 01:24:58,350 had a blow through this one first, even though it's about a 1368 01:24:58,350 --> 01:25:03,810 border. This one has been Martin castle. And Martin gave us $5. 1369 01:25:04,440 --> 01:25:11,910 Thank you. And the last one was somebody who's anonymous, and 1370 01:25:11,910 --> 01:25:16,470 they cleaned out a bunch of gift cards at PayPal and so just they 1371 01:25:16,470 --> 01:25:19,320 gave us like the leftovers off of a few different gift cards, 1372 01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:24,120 which was ended up being $8.90 Hmm. And I don't know, they it 1373 01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:27,600 came through as Jhansi Dvorak was the name and then in the 1374 01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:30,180 note though, it just said this is one of four donations 1375 01:25:30,180 --> 01:25:32,820 totaling 890 I'm not the real Johnson 1376 01:25:34,140 --> 01:25:36,660 surprise Thank you. 1377 01:25:37,019 --> 01:25:40,709 Yeah, thank you. That was just that's a good group. 1378 01:25:41,339 --> 01:25:44,129 That's the whole group is beautiful group. Yeah, I'm just 1379 01:25:44,129 --> 01:25:46,859 I'm just I'm looking at the troll room the no agenda troll 1380 01:25:46,859 --> 01:25:52,859 room. And it appears that comic strip blogger is reporting to 1381 01:25:52,859 --> 01:25:58,349 everybody all the feed IDs of the pirated Joe Rogan feeds 1382 01:25:58,349 --> 01:26:00,449 which apparently there's about 11 of them 1383 01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:04,170 Oh, I'm trying to keep them out of the index because I don't 1384 01:26:04,170 --> 01:26:08,070 want that I don't hate right I wonder if any of them are in 1385 01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:09,810 there. There was one the other day that I pulled out 1386 01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:17,550 yes ram sexy dot XYZ Whoa, yeah. That that XYZ top level domains 1387 01:26:17,550 --> 01:26:20,010 don't even get through my piehole this like this like 1388 01:26:20,010 --> 01:26:24,090 persona non grata if you go to n dot XYZ I'm not dealing with you 1389 01:26:25,020 --> 01:26:28,980 know that I need to I need to go check those out and make sure 1390 01:26:28,980 --> 01:26:30,330 yeah, don't have any of those and then yeah, 1391 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,700 WooCommerce or blogger apparently knows him. But I 1392 01:26:32,700 --> 01:26:34,560 don't know if he wants to divulge them so we can 1393 01:26:36,510 --> 01:26:39,930 he stays on forum for personal use I guess yeah, now I 1394 01:26:39,930 --> 01:26:43,770 can just I just don't want that I mean, come on. Like it Joseph 1395 01:26:43,770 --> 01:26:46,980 friends like I'm gonna look like a heel or something. Oh, look at 1396 01:26:46,980 --> 01:26:49,320 podcast index there. We're doing so yeah. 1397 01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:52,140 Don't want to be known as the as the people that help you pirate. 1398 01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:55,050 No, that's not. That's not that's not cool. 1399 01:26:55,110 --> 01:26:59,280 Not cool. And we're not the people who are enabling it is 1400 01:26:59,310 --> 01:27:03,810 damn a cast. And what's the other one? The Spotify guys 1401 01:27:03,810 --> 01:27:05,040 themselves? What's the 1402 01:27:05,610 --> 01:27:06,780 via anchor? 1403 01:27:06,809 --> 01:27:09,719 They're enabling get themselves fools. We're 1404 01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:11,820 fighting the good fight against pirates. And 1405 01:27:11,820 --> 01:27:13,320 we are doing we are. 1406 01:27:14,010 --> 01:27:17,460 It's the pirates fighting the pirates. Yeah. podcast. 1407 01:27:17,460 --> 01:27:20,430 index.org. Thank you to our supporters once again. But 1408 01:27:20,430 --> 01:27:23,070 really thank you to everybody. For your time, your talents and 1409 01:27:23,070 --> 01:27:25,470 your treasures is all the app developers. This is all the 1410 01:27:25,470 --> 01:27:29,160 people on podcasts index dot social people in the GitHub, any 1411 01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,040 podcast are interested. Thank you. You're all contributing 1412 01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,290 towards something and we'll get there. This is going to be our 1413 01:27:34,290 --> 01:27:40,170 year, I have a very good feeling about it. It really do. And it 1414 01:27:40,170 --> 01:27:44,070 particularly because Bitcoin is is back on everybody's radar 1415 01:27:44,100 --> 01:27:49,530 just because of its price point. But a great use case, man we can 1416 01:27:49,530 --> 01:27:55,470 take off. Yeah, we can. I mean, this is like CNBC would be 1417 01:27:55,470 --> 01:27:58,500 reporting on it. And if you can show the house is a simple 1418 01:27:58,500 --> 01:28:02,400 process with an existing app. And that's how I would position 1419 01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:06,030 it. It's like, Oh, your app. Oh, it's not podcasting. 2.0 Hold 1420 01:28:06,030 --> 01:28:06,240 on. 1421 01:28:06,870 --> 01:28:08,190 Yeah. Yeah, 1422 01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:10,410 you don't have a badge. You don't have bad scouts. And you 1423 01:28:10,410 --> 01:28:14,370 just scan this QR code, boom, you could get done. And then you 1424 01:28:14,370 --> 01:28:17,040 have all that process in there. I mean, we might as well make 1425 01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:20,130 subscribing to shows with QR codes. I mean, I can see a whole 1426 01:28:20,130 --> 01:28:23,490 future of style, I can see so much so much. 1427 01:28:23,820 --> 01:28:26,940 And it's all open, we'll build everything in the open. It's all 1428 01:28:26,940 --> 01:28:30,750 open standard saving, nothing's hidden and nothing siloed. It's 1429 01:28:30,750 --> 01:28:36,510 fast. Anybody can recreate it. It's just, it's it's beautiful, 1430 01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:38,280 beautiful system, the whole thing. 1431 01:28:39,210 --> 01:28:41,970 We get to our guests, anything else that we need to talk about 1432 01:28:41,970 --> 01:28:47,370 before we step into the step into the stats, we go from SATs 1433 01:28:47,370 --> 01:28:48,270 to stats, 1434 01:28:48,570 --> 01:28:51,780 I guess the only thing else I was thinking about is just we 1435 01:28:51,780 --> 01:28:55,530 had great that last week's show with James 1436 01:28:55,589 --> 01:28:57,899 was great. That was great. fun, wasn't it? Yeah. Like 1437 01:28:58,710 --> 01:29:02,250 he had, he was a little concerned that we spent time 1438 01:29:02,250 --> 01:29:04,260 talking about the freeze free speech stuff. He was a little 1439 01:29:04,260 --> 01:29:07,800 concerned that, you know, that wouldn't play well, because he's 1440 01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:10,770 not not an American and that kind of thing. And the speech 1441 01:29:10,770 --> 01:29:12,900 laws are different in different countries and stuff. But I was 1442 01:29:12,900 --> 01:29:15,930 like, you know, I shot him an email back I was like, This 1443 01:29:15,930 --> 01:29:19,500 knows. To me, that was a fantastic topic because we 1444 01:29:19,500 --> 01:29:23,010 don't, we don't really get to get and we spend a lot of time 1445 01:29:23,010 --> 01:29:25,920 talking about technology techie stuff, and we don't spend enough 1446 01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:28,920 time talking about the other side of our mission, which is 1447 01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:33,990 the free speech angle, and it is a complex topic. So I I really 1448 01:29:33,990 --> 01:29:37,710 enjoyed getting to talk about it. Number one, number one, just 1449 01:29:37,710 --> 01:29:40,830 talk about it at all, because we don't spend too much time 1450 01:29:40,830 --> 01:29:44,640 talking about it but then number two, enjoyed having him there to 1451 01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:51,240 push back from from his side of things, because you you sharpen, 1452 01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:53,070 you know, is it the iron sharpens iron type of thing. I 1453 01:29:53,070 --> 01:29:56,460 mean, you you really, it helps to have somebody push back on it 1454 01:29:56,460 --> 01:29:59,130 so you can refine your own thinking about stuff, and then 1455 01:29:59,130 --> 01:30:02,310 everybody else gets To sit back and listen and make up their own 1456 01:30:02,310 --> 01:30:02,790 minds, I 1457 01:30:02,790 --> 01:30:05,880 thought it was great. James Cridland is very important to 1458 01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:10,440 this overall project. Everybody plays an important role. But I 1459 01:30:10,440 --> 01:30:15,090 see stuff showing up like CBC, talking about the future of 1460 01:30:15,090 --> 01:30:20,100 podcasting were mentioned. That's because of James. People 1461 01:30:20,100 --> 01:30:22,320 go into James like, Hey, you know what's happening, give us a 1462 01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:25,170 couple quotes. And he's very kind and he, but he also gives 1463 01:30:25,170 --> 01:30:27,270 us what he really sees. So I 1464 01:30:27,270 --> 01:30:31,800 think that's really important to have some somebody. I think it's 1465 01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,260 important to have people and that's one thing I've enjoyed 1466 01:30:34,260 --> 01:30:37,920 about the mastodon is, you know, everybody speaks their mind. 1467 01:30:37,950 --> 01:30:41,130 They're not just tiptoeing around trying not to, they're 1468 01:30:41,130 --> 01:30:44,220 trying to walk on eggshells and not offend somebody. They speak 1469 01:30:44,220 --> 01:30:47,670 their mind, they tell what they really think, no matter how it 1470 01:30:47,670 --> 01:30:51,390 may be perceived. But then the other person says, you know, 1471 01:30:51,390 --> 01:30:54,090 well, I just disagree with you, that's that's Bs, or I don't 1472 01:30:54,090 --> 01:30:56,430 like that at all. And then it's just, everything's fine. 1473 01:30:57,420 --> 01:31:00,360 There's no algo to mess you up. There's no algo to throw anger 1474 01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:01,260 back in your face. I 1475 01:31:01,260 --> 01:31:04,440 know. If you don't have you don't have weeks long flame 1476 01:31:04,440 --> 01:31:07,140 wars. Everybody's just like, Okay, fine. We're moving on. 1477 01:31:07,170 --> 01:31:07,560 That's good. 1478 01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:12,510 One of the cool things of podcasting 2.0 is that all these 1479 01:31:12,540 --> 01:31:16,770 other issues that have kind of been hiding, or maybe not even 1480 01:31:16,770 --> 01:31:21,330 hiding, but have been unresolved and kind of stuck in the same 1481 01:31:21,330 --> 01:31:27,720 chicken in the egg, you know, in irons for the past 10 years? Oh, 1482 01:31:27,750 --> 01:31:33,390 you understand my nautical term, that's the only one I have. In 1483 01:31:33,390 --> 01:31:37,050 one of those discussion threads, and I really love that, you 1484 01:31:37,050 --> 01:31:41,040 know, we have podcasting index dot social, because, you know, 1485 01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:45,030 people just feel free to talk, it just seems to work has been a 1486 01:31:45,030 --> 01:31:48,300 discussion about stats. Now, while it doesn't. Statistics, 1487 01:31:48,300 --> 01:31:53,310 while that doesn't necessarily pertain to podcasting, 2.0 in 1488 01:31:53,310 --> 01:31:57,540 the namespace and the lightning stuff that we're looking at and 1489 01:31:57,540 --> 01:32:01,680 implementing, it's something that we might be able to help 1490 01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:04,560 solve, or at least facilitate the conversation. Dave, you've 1491 01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:08,340 been talking to, I think a number of people about this, and 1492 01:32:08,340 --> 01:32:10,860 and it gets into technical details where I understand 1493 01:32:10,860 --> 01:32:13,890 what's being said, but the, the nuances are too close for me to 1494 01:32:13,890 --> 01:32:18,570 understand necessarily without really focusing on it. And I 1495 01:32:18,570 --> 01:32:23,130 know you've had what we've been talking about Dan Benjamin, who 1496 01:32:23,220 --> 01:32:29,730 has some ideas on this, on this front, and holy moly. He's with 1497 01:32:29,730 --> 01:32:33,300 us here. As if I didn't know Dan Benjamin. Happy New Year to you, 1498 01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:37,050 guys. Thanks for having me back. 1499 01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:39,270 He already you already gave yourself away laughing in the 1500 01:32:39,270 --> 01:32:39,930 low earlier. 1501 01:32:40,350 --> 01:32:43,800 Yeah, no. I laid it out perfectly, though. So that was a 1502 01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:48,540 perfect execution on day sport. Yes. Because I said I did not. I 1503 01:32:48,540 --> 01:32:53,460 did not say, who gave who gave me the idea for the stats thing. 1504 01:32:53,670 --> 01:32:58,170 On on the on that episode. So in case it was a dismal failure, I 1505 01:32:58,170 --> 01:33:00,690 could just blame somebody else. 1506 01:33:00,690 --> 01:33:02,820 I see. I see. That's a good plan. Yeah. 1507 01:33:02,850 --> 01:33:06,120 But if it was a raging success, I didn't have to give credit. I 1508 01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:09,630 could just keep it. Yeah, I could say, Oh, I was just 1509 01:33:09,630 --> 01:33:12,510 kidding. It wasn't. It was me the whole time. 1510 01:33:12,870 --> 01:33:16,980 Dave Jones, is is Dilbert come to life, ladies. 1511 01:33:18,690 --> 01:33:20,910 office politics. 101, baby. That's right. 1512 01:33:20,940 --> 01:33:25,110 Dan has been on the show before. And he is the founder of 1513 01:33:25,110 --> 01:33:30,090 fireside FM fi as founder CEO. The man. 1514 01:33:31,710 --> 01:33:32,550 Welcome back, Dan. 1515 01:33:33,990 --> 01:33:36,450 Thanks for having me back. Now, this is a this is a really cool 1516 01:33:36,450 --> 01:33:39,390 topic. And it's something that, you know, Dave, we had talked 1517 01:33:39,390 --> 01:33:42,750 about a little bit. And I you had mentioned, you said how I 1518 01:33:42,750 --> 01:33:45,180 want to talk about it on the show, but I don't, I won't. I 1519 01:33:45,180 --> 01:33:47,790 won't go into too much detail about where it's from. And then 1520 01:33:47,910 --> 01:33:51,450 maybe we can come back and talk about us and share. Sure. But I 1521 01:33:51,450 --> 01:33:54,240 thought you did a pretty good job decent job of explaining it. 1522 01:33:54,870 --> 01:33:59,130 Thank you. Thank you very much. I did not want to, if I 1523 01:33:59,130 --> 01:34:03,690 butchered it. I did not want to make you look bad. So I kept it 1524 01:34:03,690 --> 01:34:07,920 to myself, but I think I think I mean, I think there was some 1525 01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:11,490 some interest in it. But there's also some misunderstanding some 1526 01:34:11,490 --> 01:34:16,410 sort of fundamental stuff that was misunderstood about about it 1527 01:34:16,410 --> 01:34:19,200 initially, like a couple, like one thing was immediately was 1528 01:34:19,200 --> 01:34:23,130 okay, this is tracking. And, you know, the other thing is, are 1529 01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:26,730 you know, like, personalized try were some somehow you could know 1530 01:34:26,730 --> 01:34:30,300 who it was. Right? You know, and the other one was, we were 1531 01:34:30,300 --> 01:34:32,490 already well, we were we've already done this before, 1532 01:34:32,490 --> 01:34:36,180 because you know, adding an identity adding some sort of 1533 01:34:36,180 --> 01:34:41,340 unique ID to every download. And, but it's sort of the 1534 01:34:41,340 --> 01:34:44,040 differences. A little is a little subtle, though. Can I 1535 01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:44,940 maybe can do a better job. 1536 01:34:44,940 --> 01:34:47,580 Can I can I jump in for one second as the guy who, who 1537 01:34:47,580 --> 01:34:51,450 doesn't understand much about this, and so maybe that will 1538 01:34:51,450 --> 01:34:57,450 help with the simplicity of it. Yeah. So the overall issue is 1539 01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:01,950 what do we know if someone When downloaded a podcast and 1540 01:35:01,950 --> 01:35:06,330 episode, do we know if someone listened. And I guess 1541 01:35:06,330 --> 01:35:09,360 preferably, and I'm thinking as an advertiser or from the 1542 01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:17,190 advertising side, we'd love to know if the person listened, you 1543 01:35:17,190 --> 01:35:19,410 know, where they listened, where they didn't listen to all these 1544 01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:23,040 all these different nuances, we need to know that the messaging 1545 01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:28,860 has been delivered. And so there's an ongoing attribution 1546 01:35:28,860 --> 01:35:31,260 conversation, which I think is it comes into that privacy 1547 01:35:31,260 --> 01:35:33,570 thing. It's like, Okay, are we are we being tracked how we're 1548 01:35:33,570 --> 01:35:37,620 being tracked? Who has the information? And then there's, I 1549 01:35:37,620 --> 01:35:41,430 think there's just seems like fundamental differences because 1550 01:35:41,430 --> 01:35:47,790 of the type of advertising that may be inserted, or? I don't 1551 01:35:47,790 --> 01:35:53,610 know, it just seems like, like, it's a huge problem that no one 1552 01:35:53,610 --> 01:35:57,510 really can get past because all of these are competing issues. 1553 01:35:57,990 --> 01:36:01,170 You're absolutely right. I mean, so everything you said is 1554 01:36:01,170 --> 01:36:04,710 correct. So let's take a step back. And if you look at the way 1555 01:36:04,710 --> 01:36:07,800 we used to count podcast downloads in the early early 1556 01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:12,810 days in the, you know, in in 2006 2008, you know, early 1557 01:36:12,810 --> 01:36:15,900 times, we just treated them almost the same way that we 1558 01:36:15,900 --> 01:36:19,590 treated, it's on a webpage is that Oh, there's, you know, 1559 01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:23,340 there's someone goes to download it, and and there's a record in 1560 01:36:23,340 --> 01:36:26,640 the log. And so we were actually parsing our log files, right? 1561 01:36:26,640 --> 01:36:29,550 Like, we were looking at the log files and counting up the number 1562 01:36:29,550 --> 01:36:34,050 of hits for an individual episode, for example. And, of 1563 01:36:34,050 --> 01:36:36,810 course, now we can look back and know that that was the wrong way 1564 01:36:36,810 --> 01:36:40,200 to do it. Because there's something called range requests. 1565 01:36:40,230 --> 01:36:44,340 And so the HTTP 1.1 spec allows for something called a range 1566 01:36:44,340 --> 01:36:47,220 request. And so behind the scenes, what's happening is, 1567 01:36:47,220 --> 01:36:49,380 let's say you've got your podcast client on your phone, 1568 01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:53,820 and you go to download the latest episode of this show. 1569 01:36:54,330 --> 01:36:57,630 When that happens, your podcast client goes to the server and 1570 01:36:57,630 --> 01:37:00,210 says, Hey, I want you know, I sorry, guys, I don't know what 1571 01:37:00,210 --> 01:37:03,360 episode you're on here. But let's say it's Episode 50. So it 1572 01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:06,750 was episode number 50. And the server says, oh, how do you want 1573 01:37:06,750 --> 01:37:10,530 it? And the podcast client, the app on your phone says, You know 1574 01:37:10,530 --> 01:37:14,640 what, it's 30. Meg's in size. So we better break that up into 1575 01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:18,570 like, five megabyte chunks, and give me six of those and send 1576 01:37:18,570 --> 01:37:23,400 them all to me at once. And so what is technically one download 1577 01:37:23,460 --> 01:37:26,820 of the episode, if you are looking at the log files, 1578 01:37:26,820 --> 01:37:29,970 there's going to be six, seven requests for it. One is like the 1579 01:37:29,970 --> 01:37:32,850 initial request, then there's a head request, then there's it 1580 01:37:32,850 --> 01:37:35,250 breaking it up into those different chunks, there's a bit 1581 01:37:35,250 --> 01:37:39,420 of back and forth. So it might actually look like 5678 1582 01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:43,770 downloads or requests for that file. But that's for one person, 1583 01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:48,660 right? So we know that that's not really seven downloads, it's 1584 01:37:48,660 --> 01:37:51,810 just one Well, how do we know that we have to analyze the log 1585 01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:55,350 in a special way. Back in the old days, I'd released an 1586 01:37:55,350 --> 01:37:58,500 episode of Oh, my God, we did 100,000 downloads is a brand new 1587 01:37:58,500 --> 01:38:01,740 show, this is amazing what really, we got 15,000 downloads 1588 01:38:01,740 --> 01:38:05,760 and, and maybe not even that, and that was because of this 1589 01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:11,850 range request problem. So as the podcasting stats, segment of the 1590 01:38:11,850 --> 01:38:14,730 industry kind of evolved, they realized this. So they tried to 1591 01:38:14,730 --> 01:38:19,350 come up with we tried to come up with ways to resolve this issue. 1592 01:38:19,350 --> 01:38:22,620 And one of the ways is by looking at IP addresses. And so 1593 01:38:22,620 --> 01:38:24,870 of course, it's a little background for people who don't 1594 01:38:24,870 --> 01:38:28,380 know what the heck that means. Every computer or device on the 1595 01:38:28,380 --> 01:38:30,450 internet, whether it's your computer in front of you on your 1596 01:38:30,450 --> 01:38:33,180 desk, your iPad, your phone, whatever it is, they all have an 1597 01:38:33,180 --> 01:38:36,600 IP address associated with them. And you go when you make a 1598 01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:39,630 request for something, and it logs that IP address. So when 1599 01:38:39,630 --> 01:38:42,060 you browse a web page, your IP address gets logged, when you 1600 01:38:42,060 --> 01:38:45,030 download a podcast episode, your IP address is locked somewhere. 1601 01:38:46,260 --> 01:38:48,360 And that seems fine. So you could say okay, well, an 1602 01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:52,650 individual IP address that map's to a single person. So if 1603 01:38:52,650 --> 01:38:54,990 there's a whole bunch of requests from this one IP 1604 01:38:54,990 --> 01:38:58,230 address, well, then that's one person downloading that one 1605 01:38:58,230 --> 01:39:01,950 episode, right? Wrong. That's not how it works either because 1606 01:39:01,950 --> 01:39:05,160 of something called network address translation. So every 1607 01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:09,150 single household, every single business company, library, 1608 01:39:09,150 --> 01:39:14,580 coffee shop, you name it, airport, they have one external 1609 01:39:14,580 --> 01:39:18,060 IP address. But within their network, they might have 1610 01:39:18,060 --> 01:39:20,340 hundreds or even 1000s, depending on the size of the 1611 01:39:20,340 --> 01:39:24,150 organization. But to the outside world, any request that comes 1612 01:39:24,150 --> 01:39:28,110 from that. That company, let's say let's say you work, let's 1613 01:39:28,110 --> 01:39:30,480 say work at a company, and you're on a floor, and there's 1614 01:39:30,480 --> 01:39:32,700 100 other people on that floor, and maybe that's your whole 1615 01:39:32,700 --> 01:39:37,740 company, 100 people. Well, every single request that goes out to 1616 01:39:37,740 --> 01:39:40,710 the internet is going to come from one IP address regardless 1617 01:39:40,710 --> 01:39:43,500 of which 100 people that are there, but those 100 people 1618 01:39:43,500 --> 01:39:47,310 don't just have one device each they all have a phone, maybe 1619 01:39:47,310 --> 01:39:51,240 two, right? They all have a computer, maybe three. So if you 1620 01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:54,540 have let's say you subscribed on your computer, in Apple podcasts 1621 01:39:54,540 --> 01:39:57,810 on your computer and on your phone, you're using, you know, 1622 01:39:58,710 --> 01:40:03,060 downcast. Let's say what Doesn't matter. Those are both going to 1623 01:40:03,060 --> 01:40:04,950 look like they're coming from the same IP address to the 1624 01:40:04,950 --> 01:40:07,860 outside world. But not only that, so it all the other 100 1625 01:40:07,860 --> 01:40:08,970 people on that floor, 1626 01:40:09,059 --> 01:40:13,349 understood. But here, here's the here's the crux of the issue, 1627 01:40:13,349 --> 01:40:17,969 which I think if we're, maybe we're just in this realm, but 1628 01:40:17,969 --> 01:40:21,509 really, if someone listened at all, is what you want to 1629 01:40:21,509 --> 01:40:25,319 understand. Yes. So downloading just is meaningless, 1630 01:40:25,409 --> 01:40:27,749 right? Download isn't even enough. But let me just let me 1631 01:40:27,749 --> 01:40:29,939 just finish with this part to just show you how complicated 1632 01:40:29,939 --> 01:40:34,139 this still is. Now, let's say that 20 of those people are on 1633 01:40:34,139 --> 01:40:36,449 the software development team, and they all listen to this 1634 01:40:36,449 --> 01:40:40,949 show. Now you're gonna get not 20 requests for this podcast 1635 01:40:40,949 --> 01:40:43,769 episode, you're gonna get 20 times however many range 1636 01:40:43,769 --> 01:40:45,779 requests that got, but they're all gonna look like they're from 1637 01:40:45,779 --> 01:40:48,719 the same IP address. So what do you do? Do you say, Oh, well, 1638 01:40:48,719 --> 01:40:51,809 that's one download? No, no, it's not one download, because 1639 01:40:51,809 --> 01:40:54,599 there were 20 different people. So it's actually 20 different 1640 01:40:54,599 --> 01:40:58,079 lessons. But you can't tell that. You can't tell any of 1641 01:40:58,079 --> 01:41:01,139 that. And that that is the crux of the problem. So the way that 1642 01:41:01,139 --> 01:41:03,929 they've tried to get around this is by coming up with different 1643 01:41:03,929 --> 01:41:06,389 methodologies to say, well, there were different user 1644 01:41:06,419 --> 01:41:09,029 agents, they happen within a different time period, they 1645 01:41:09,029 --> 01:41:12,029 should have happened within a certain time period. And all of 1646 01:41:12,029 --> 01:41:14,219 this other stuff that I think places like if 1647 01:41:14,819 --> 01:41:17,579 it's a big grep, regex string. 1648 01:41:17,759 --> 01:41:22,349 Yeah. And that's exactly that is exactly how we we have there are 1649 01:41:22,379 --> 01:41:24,899 regular expressions regex is that are out there that are 1650 01:41:24,899 --> 01:41:28,079 updated all the time, whenever a new user agent comes out, and 1651 01:41:28,079 --> 01:41:31,379 they're they're doing things with it trying to ignore certain 1652 01:41:31,379 --> 01:41:32,129 IP addresses. 1653 01:41:32,549 --> 01:41:36,689 This explains a lot of what I'm seeing Cridland and yes, Daniel 1654 01:41:36,689 --> 01:41:38,789 J. Lewis do okay. Now? Yes. 1655 01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:42,540 And so they are they are involved in this open podcast, 1656 01:41:42,540 --> 01:41:46,770 working groups back trying to keep up with all the new regular 1657 01:41:46,770 --> 01:41:50,700 expressions in different formats so that we as like fireside as a 1658 01:41:50,700 --> 01:41:54,300 podcast host, I use those to parse those downloads and figure 1659 01:41:54,300 --> 01:41:56,880 out Oh, this is the latest version of this client. And this 1660 01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,130 is the other version of this client. And they're changing all 1661 01:41:59,130 --> 01:41:59,910 the time anyway. 1662 01:41:59,910 --> 01:42:03,690 And so hold on, Dan. And so the entire industry runs on this, 1663 01:42:04,050 --> 01:42:09,330 this grip regex. That's what Oh, yes. But but it's still not 1664 01:42:09,330 --> 01:42:12,000 telling you if someone's listening, I feel so much 1665 01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:13,590 better. It still doesn't. 1666 01:42:13,590 --> 01:42:19,170 But it's worse than that, Adam, because not only don't we know, 1667 01:42:19,170 --> 01:42:23,160 if they're listening, we don't even really know if a download 1668 01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:25,800 has occurred from a real person or not, or whether it's been 1669 01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:29,040 scraped, or whether it's this situation where there's 20 1670 01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:32,820 people and it looks like one or one person in 20. So yeah, or a 1671 01:42:32,820 --> 01:42:35,310 bot. So the way that the way that we address that first part 1672 01:42:35,310 --> 01:42:38,370 of the issue and my idea for this, the IAB internet 1673 01:42:38,370 --> 01:42:40,980 Advertising Bureau, they came out with a spec and that that's 1674 01:42:40,980 --> 01:42:44,790 the thing if you hear this term called IAB compliance, or IAB 1675 01:42:44,790 --> 01:42:48,210 certified, if you're IAB compliant, it means that you're 1676 01:42:48,210 --> 01:42:51,990 following their guidelines and recommendations with your log 1677 01:42:51,990 --> 01:42:53,820 analytics algorithm. Do 1678 01:42:53,820 --> 01:42:57,900 they have a fancy badge that you get when you're certainly if 1679 01:42:57,900 --> 01:43:01,830 you become certified? And my understanding is that it is 1680 01:43:01,830 --> 01:43:06,330 something like, I'm not sure. But I've been I've heard a bird 1681 01:43:06,330 --> 01:43:10,380 told me that it's something like $50,000 to become certified. 1682 01:43:10,410 --> 01:43:14,220 Okay, so hold on. So the open statistics Working Group, like 1683 01:43:14,220 --> 01:43:15,030 what was the name again, 1684 01:43:15,330 --> 01:43:19,020 I think it's called the open podcast, working group 1685 01:43:19,020 --> 01:43:19,530 analytics, 1686 01:43:20,430 --> 01:43:21,060 analytics. 1687 01:43:21,839 --> 01:43:26,369 Thank you. So they're doing all the work. And I B is charging 1688 01:43:26,369 --> 01:43:27,539 everybody 50 grand, 1689 01:43:27,990 --> 01:43:31,860 they charge 50 grand to certify that the way that you are 1690 01:43:31,890 --> 01:43:34,860 analyzing your logs and downloads are correct. 1691 01:43:35,070 --> 01:43:39,000 I need to certify apps 2.0 compliant for 50,000. 1692 01:43:39,240 --> 01:43:39,810 I know you do. 1693 01:43:42,570 --> 01:43:45,000 support this board meeting I fully support 1694 01:43:46,110 --> 01:43:51,540 getting a journal. But so my idea was I don't want to do 1695 01:43:51,570 --> 01:43:55,110 because I don't have $50,000 to spend on being certified. So 1696 01:43:55,140 --> 01:43:59,370 fireside is compliant with IB. We follow those methodologies, 1697 01:43:59,370 --> 01:44:01,860 but they're flawed also because of some of the problems that 1698 01:44:01,890 --> 01:44:03,930 that you talked about on the last show and what we just 1699 01:44:03,930 --> 01:44:06,630 talked about now as far as looking at downloads and things 1700 01:44:06,630 --> 01:44:10,620 like that. It's not a perfect system. And so my idea, which is 1701 01:44:10,620 --> 01:44:17,550 what Dave talked about, a couple episodes back is if and I'm I 1702 01:44:17,550 --> 01:44:19,950 would like I'm working on a little website for this I 1703 01:44:19,950 --> 01:44:25,560 haven't named yet maybe you guys can help me name it. But I I 1704 01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:28,620 want someone to tell me why this won't work because I've thought 1705 01:44:28,620 --> 01:44:30,420 it through I've thought about it a lot. I thought about it for a 1706 01:44:30,420 --> 01:44:33,540 couple years. And I in anyone I've 1707 01:44:33,540 --> 01:44:34,650 told it to that you have yet 1708 01:44:34,650 --> 01:44:38,730 to tell me Oh, that won't work because but here's my idea. And 1709 01:44:38,730 --> 01:44:43,440 again, Adam, this does not address listens, plays. He just 1710 01:44:43,440 --> 01:44:48,480 addresses the download part. But here's my idea. The download 1711 01:44:48,480 --> 01:44:51,990 client, whether that's a podcast app, or Apple podcasts on a 1712 01:44:51,990 --> 01:44:55,950 computer, or whatever, you can't do this with a browser but but a 1713 01:44:55,950 --> 01:45:00,660 dedicated podcast client of some kind when a download going to 1714 01:45:00,660 --> 01:45:03,510 happen when it knows that it's supposed to download an episode. 1715 01:45:03,930 --> 01:45:08,280 What it will do is it will tack on to the URL of the episode, a 1716 01:45:08,340 --> 01:45:12,360 query string, that could be called something I probably tied 1717 01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:15,330 into the name. It could be good. It could be token, it could be 1718 01:45:15,330 --> 01:45:15,900 some, you know, 1719 01:45:15,990 --> 01:45:17,910 oh, let's just call the spy. 1720 01:45:18,750 --> 01:45:23,400 What does that stand for? OSI? No, it's not fine. Because and 1721 01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:26,160 I'll tell you why. That's fine. So what it does is the client, 1722 01:45:26,190 --> 01:45:35,160 the client, john, underscore. Nice. I'm sorry, I apologize. 1723 01:45:35,490 --> 01:45:39,480 So what what this what this token does is it would be a 1724 01:45:39,510 --> 01:45:45,300 probably like a 32. character, unique ID, it's generated, and 1725 01:45:45,300 --> 01:45:49,620 it's thrown away immediately. So it's used only for this one 1726 01:45:49,620 --> 01:45:54,900 podcast client, downloading this one episode, this one time, it 1727 01:45:54,900 --> 01:45:58,260 does not contain any other information. It's not reusable. 1728 01:45:58,260 --> 01:46:02,430 It's not stored. It's not saved. It's just generated once by the 1729 01:46:02,430 --> 01:46:06,210 podcast client, for this individual request of this one 1730 01:46:06,210 --> 01:46:08,850 mp3 file. So if they want to download the latest version of 1731 01:46:08,850 --> 01:46:12,660 this show, they're going this one podcast client will generate 1732 01:46:12,660 --> 01:46:16,170 this ID and use it just for the download of that episode, and 1733 01:46:16,170 --> 01:46:18,930 then throw it away. Never use it again. It's never used again. Mm 1734 01:46:18,930 --> 01:46:22,590 hmm. It can't be tied to an individual person it yes, you 1735 01:46:22,590 --> 01:46:25,470 could say, well, this token was used for this IP. But that 1736 01:46:25,470 --> 01:46:27,570 doesn't tell you anything, because the tokens never used 1737 01:46:27,570 --> 01:46:28,950 again, it's thrown out. 1738 01:46:29,490 --> 01:46:32,640 So it's okay. So maybe maybe this is where I messed up. So 1739 01:46:32,700 --> 01:46:35,010 tell me if I messed this up, then. Because what my 1740 01:46:35,010 --> 01:46:38,100 understanding was that you you generate the token, you attach 1741 01:46:38,100 --> 01:46:41,820 it to the to the URL of that one episode. But then if you as the 1742 01:46:41,820 --> 01:46:45,360 user download that, that episode, again, let's just say 1743 01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:48,360 for some crazy reason you wanted to download that same episode 1744 01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:52,350 four times it within a one hour period, you would get a unique 1745 01:46:52,350 --> 01:46:55,140 ID a different ID every time or would that one stick? 1746 01:46:55,440 --> 01:46:58,920 Well, you know that that's actually a really nice little 1747 01:46:59,340 --> 01:47:02,700 improvement to it. I think. I mean, if the client wants to 1748 01:47:02,700 --> 01:47:06,120 save that, and associated with that download it could I don't 1749 01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:08,940 see a problem with that, that would be fine. I hadn't really 1750 01:47:08,940 --> 01:47:09,810 thought about because 1751 01:47:10,230 --> 01:47:12,360 because I have it that works. That works. I implemented it 1752 01:47:12,360 --> 01:47:15,750 because I implemented it on our side and in the Web Player. And 1753 01:47:15,750 --> 01:47:19,650 it's doing it now. Like we're in the Web Player and what it 1754 01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:23,820 generates new and every 24 hours for that day. So like I see it. 1755 01:47:24,300 --> 01:47:27,660 It's very, very cool. Okay, and that. So that still fits with 1756 01:47:27,660 --> 01:47:28,470 your program, right? 1757 01:47:28,800 --> 01:47:31,830 Yeah, absolutely. That would work. But the point is, we're, 1758 01:47:32,010 --> 01:47:34,980 the reason that we throw it away, is because we're trying to 1759 01:47:34,980 --> 01:47:39,720 provide anonymity for it. But what we would never do what we 1760 01:47:39,810 --> 01:47:42,510 so I guess that token could be saved indefinitely by the 1761 01:47:42,510 --> 01:47:45,540 podcast client associated with that episode. Sure. That doesn't 1762 01:47:45,540 --> 01:47:49,200 hurt. The point is, it's not used for multiple episodes, it's 1763 01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:53,520 not used for multiple podcasts. It's only used once for that one 1764 01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:55,890 individual episode. So in theory, it could it could stay 1765 01:47:55,890 --> 01:48:00,540 for 24 hours or, or forever, but there is not going to ever be 1766 01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:06,030 any cross association with that ID. And that keeps it so you 1767 01:48:06,030 --> 01:48:08,850 wouldn't be able to say the person who downloaded this 1768 01:48:08,850 --> 01:48:12,030 episode is the same person who downloaded this prior episode. 1769 01:48:12,030 --> 01:48:14,400 We don't care about that. And we don't want to track that we want 1770 01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:18,060 to make it stay private. We want to keep it anonymous, because 1771 01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:20,550 the whole thing that people complain about, about things 1772 01:48:20,550 --> 01:48:23,760 like Spotify and other places are they're they're selling our 1773 01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:26,250 listening data. This is one of the big complaints that I've 1774 01:48:26,250 --> 01:48:29,850 heard about the latest Spotify is buying wondering, you said 1775 01:48:29,850 --> 01:48:32,400 you said something really important. They're selling your 1776 01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:35,550 listening data, right? That's correct. They are selling your 1777 01:48:35,580 --> 01:48:40,140 they have your listening data. And so you're never going to win 1778 01:48:40,290 --> 01:48:43,530 with downloads over listens. But I think there's something even 1779 01:48:43,530 --> 01:48:48,660 worse at play. And I was involved in the early early days 1780 01:48:48,660 --> 01:48:52,650 of internet advertising. We made all the hits mistake. So I know 1781 01:48:52,650 --> 01:48:57,090 I know a lot about the In fact, when statistics have always been 1782 01:48:57,090 --> 01:49:01,050 inherently so poor, that and this was what think new ideas 1783 01:49:01,050 --> 01:49:06,630 there was a company that I took public on NASDAQ. We branded it 1784 01:49:06,630 --> 01:49:09,930 what was what was that? That basic stats package. It was like 1785 01:49:09,930 --> 01:49:12,690 everyone was using it. It was kind of a desktop thing. Just 1786 01:49:12,690 --> 01:49:16,050 run your log through it. Can't remember it. Oh, it 1787 01:49:16,890 --> 01:49:18,900 patchy it did your Apache stats or whatever? 1788 01:49:18,900 --> 01:49:22,260 Well, it was literally a desktop app. And it was called web 1789 01:49:22,260 --> 01:49:26,700 stats, I think, yeah, web stats. And it was it was Windows app. 1790 01:49:27,300 --> 01:49:29,760 And so we'd print that out and it would have all the basic 1791 01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:33,600 information. And but we did two things. We branded it. We call 1792 01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:37,500 the ASAP, the advanced statistical analysis program. 1793 01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:41,130 And it was a program because you didn't just get this printout 1794 01:49:41,130 --> 01:49:44,940 and a dashboard. You got an analysis with a professional, 1795 01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:50,130 which would be made and explain, and I explained a number of 1796 01:49:50,130 --> 01:49:52,560 these things. But here's what I learned because I worked with 1797 01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:56,820 the biggest brands, the biggest advertising agencies that they 1798 01:49:56,850 --> 01:50:02,370 owned 18% of my company, in fact, Omni comm The dirty secret 1799 01:50:02,370 --> 01:50:08,430 is, nobody really wants to know the real truth. We don't really 1800 01:50:08,430 --> 01:50:11,190 want to know how many people are listening or watching or 1801 01:50:11,190 --> 01:50:16,800 reading, because that would fuck up the system. And that and 1802 01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:20,040 that's why you have this barrier to entry is dinner, it would be 1803 01:50:20,250 --> 01:50:23,730 would be too low numbers. Yeah, then First of all, the numbers 1804 01:50:23,730 --> 01:50:27,120 would fluctuate way too much. And I think they would be much 1805 01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:30,930 lower than everyone has been selling them at much lower. And 1806 01:50:30,930 --> 01:50:35,580 and and the same way Nielsen Nielsen, they don't also really 1807 01:50:35,580 --> 01:50:39,360 want anyone to know it's it's a big magic sauce, mumble and why 1808 01:50:39,360 --> 01:50:42,900 can No One No One Else ever really get in the game? Is 1809 01:50:42,900 --> 01:50:47,490 because it's a lock in. And it's a scam statistics like this, 1810 01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:50,580 which we know are inherently very difficult. Otherwise, here, 1811 01:50:50,970 --> 01:50:55,980 if you look at, okay, so we have by everyone's measure 50% of all 1812 01:50:55,980 --> 01:50:59,490 podcasts clients used is Apple. That's what I'm seeing. That's 1813 01:50:59,490 --> 01:51:04,740 just minute between 40 and 60%. Yeah, Apple has, for every 1814 01:51:04,740 --> 01:51:10,080 podcast, a beautiful chart of people listening on on the on 1815 01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:14,040 their devices, of course, and how long they listened and where 1816 01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:17,280 they listen, and I enjoyed looking at these charts. Now, I 1817 01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:21,000 don't have my full statistics. But I can see that, you know, we 1818 01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:24,810 do a donation segment and I can see this blip, I can see a dip. 1819 01:51:24,990 --> 01:51:27,600 And I can what I've always enjoyed is what it comes back 1820 01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:30,150 up. So people are fast forwarding, and they're not 1821 01:51:30,150 --> 01:51:33,390 interested in that. But they come back and it's a slope that 1822 01:51:33,390 --> 01:51:35,670 just goes off down to the right. And you know, less and less 1823 01:51:35,670 --> 01:51:40,470 people are listening. But you can extrapolate with that base, 1824 01:51:40,500 --> 01:51:45,030 it's much easier to say okay, well, this is 50%. So let's make 1825 01:51:45,030 --> 01:51:48,600 it 25% and say it's a quarter of all of this stuff. And here's 1826 01:51:48,600 --> 01:51:52,200 how much exposure your ad got. No one is doing that. No one is 1827 01:51:52,200 --> 01:51:55,530 saying, hey, look at my apple stats. Ah, because they're true. 1828 01:51:56,340 --> 01:52:01,410 And they're not that great. Would you consider that that's 1829 01:52:01,410 --> 01:52:04,290 part of the issue, and that you can only get into the exclusive 1830 01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:07,800 approved club if you got 50 grand? Yeah, I 1831 01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:11,460 mean, it might it might be and I think I think there's something 1832 01:52:12,630 --> 01:52:15,300 you know, I think I think it's, well, it's a really tricky 1833 01:52:15,300 --> 01:52:21,120 problem, because there are, you know, apple, even even if Apple 1834 01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:23,610 let's say apples 50% of the industry, 1835 01:52:23,639 --> 01:52:26,039 they are I mean, we're seeing we're seeing the numbers, that's 1836 01:52:26,039 --> 01:52:27,119 what everyone's reporting. 1837 01:52:27,540 --> 01:52:32,040 So when you look at what Apple's showing you, that's 50% of your 1838 01:52:32,040 --> 01:52:35,910 downloads, essentially, right that, that or it might be more. 1839 01:52:35,970 --> 01:52:38,220 And so that's where these download stats and the user 1840 01:52:38,220 --> 01:52:41,490 agents that Cridland and those guys are working on is important 1841 01:52:41,490 --> 01:52:43,830 because one of the things that we show you in fireside and I 1842 01:52:43,830 --> 01:52:46,050 imagine all the other hosts should be showing this with 1843 01:52:46,050 --> 01:52:48,330 stats too is you can look at an individual episode or your 1844 01:52:48,330 --> 01:52:52,290 podcast as a whole. And we show you like essentially a donut pie 1845 01:52:52,290 --> 01:52:55,680 chart showing the breakdown of all of the different clients and 1846 01:52:55,680 --> 01:52:57,990 who's using what and if you're on the pro plan, you can click 1847 01:52:57,990 --> 01:53:01,170 and it'll actually break it down into individual numbers as well 1848 01:53:01,170 --> 01:53:05,520 as percentages. So you can say Oh, like 35% of this episode was 1849 01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:09,510 downloaded by Apple podcasts and 8% was overcast and 13% was 1850 01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:14,070 whatever. So you can actually see that breakdown. And, and 1851 01:53:14,070 --> 01:53:17,850 that's useful. But then let's say 30% of your downloads on 1852 01:53:17,850 --> 01:53:21,780 that individual episode of whatever the podcast is. 30% was 1853 01:53:21,780 --> 01:53:26,250 from Apple, you can then look at your Apple analytics over on 1854 01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:31,200 Apple podcasts and see what that 30% did. I understand but No One 1855 01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:31,410 No 1856 01:53:31,410 --> 01:53:34,680 One sells ads on that formula you just mentioned exactly why 1857 01:53:34,680 --> 01:53:36,030 not? Exactly. And why not? 1858 01:53:36,179 --> 01:53:37,109 Because right. 1859 01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:42,870 I am. I've been in this scam club, my friend. I have I've 1860 01:53:42,870 --> 01:53:46,470 been in it. I've seen it. That's why I walked away from my own 1861 01:53:46,470 --> 01:53:52,470 company, podcasts of the pod show later meevo which was just 1862 01:53:52,470 --> 01:53:55,530 an unfortunate turn of events because I might have been able 1863 01:53:55,530 --> 01:53:58,650 to sell that silly network for 300 million these days. I was, 1864 01:53:58,770 --> 01:54:01,830 of course 10 years. 10 years early. That's too early my 1865 01:54:01,830 --> 01:54:05,490 middle name. But I'm not bitter about it. Because I've you know, 1866 01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:10,110 I made a perfectly beautiful salary for 10 years. Everything 1867 01:54:10,110 --> 01:54:15,030 was fine. But I had to walk away because at a certain point, the 1868 01:54:15,030 --> 01:54:18,060 content all of it had to be brand safe for the real 1869 01:54:18,060 --> 01:54:21,540 advertisers, even BMW that's who I'm talking about specifically, 1870 01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:25,650 Johnson Johnson, Procter and Gamble, automotive pharma, oh my 1871 01:54:25,650 --> 01:54:26,340 gosh pharma. 1872 01:54:28,110 --> 01:54:28,860 Banks, all 1873 01:54:30,150 --> 01:54:33,000 telecoms, these are billion dollar spenders on an annual 1874 01:54:33,000 --> 01:54:38,940 basis. So it had to be guaranteed brand safe. And what 1875 01:54:38,940 --> 01:54:44,190 you result the result is poorly produced content which has to be 1876 01:54:44,190 --> 01:54:47,970 done as cheaply as possible because of the fluctuating cpms 1877 01:54:48,180 --> 01:54:53,790 which is also based on your content and your brand safeness. 1878 01:54:54,060 --> 01:54:59,460 Right. And it's basically like driving a NASCAR race but all 1879 01:54:59,460 --> 01:55:03,930 the stickers are On the windshield, and I hated it. Like 1880 01:55:03,930 --> 01:55:06,930 I'd rather I'd rather not be involved in advertising it just 1881 01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:11,580 it's, it's not. That's advertising. So all I'm saying 1882 01:55:11,580 --> 01:55:16,500 is that the actual there's many ways and I think personally, if 1883 01:55:16,500 --> 01:55:20,400 I were to just try and solve this, I would build 1884 01:55:20,910 --> 01:55:21,450 a, 1885 01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:28,770 I would have a system that tracks the actual listening. And 1886 01:55:28,770 --> 01:55:32,190 I think that you could, and that would not go to a third party 1887 01:55:32,190 --> 01:55:34,680 necessarily, but that would be the podcaster. And it would be 1888 01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:38,430 verifiable the podcasters own data, okay, here's how many 1889 01:55:38,430 --> 01:55:40,860 listens I have. And here's where they listen, here's where, you 1890 01:55:40,860 --> 01:55:44,460 know, for every, every 30 seconds, I think you could do 1891 01:55:44,460 --> 01:55:48,540 that and get a much higher CPM. Much higher, you'd have to go 1892 01:55:48,570 --> 01:55:52,020 outside of this wonky system, that everyone's just kind of 1893 01:55:52,020 --> 01:55:53,310 waiting for some innovation. 1894 01:55:53,910 --> 01:55:58,320 But here's a quick here's a question, though. So when it 1895 01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:01,890 feels like this is probably sort of scammy on both sides of the 1896 01:56:01,890 --> 01:56:04,410 equation. And it's not. When you I guess when you first hear 1897 01:56:04,410 --> 01:56:06,630 about it, you think your your natural inclination is to think 1898 01:56:06,630 --> 01:56:10,230 okay, well, the podcaster, or the network or whatever, they're 1899 01:56:10,230 --> 01:56:14,010 the ones that want inflated stats, is probably also the 1900 01:56:14,010 --> 01:56:15,750 advertiser wants inflated stuff. 1901 01:56:16,500 --> 01:56:20,520 But the advertiser is not the customer. It's the agency, it's 1902 01:56:20,520 --> 01:56:24,690 the buying agency. It's the exchange, no, no, if the 1903 01:56:24,690 --> 01:56:28,890 advertiser B, what are we saying advertising? 50% of my money is 1904 01:56:28,890 --> 01:56:33,120 working. I just don't know which half? And and that's, that's the 1905 01:56:33,120 --> 01:56:33,870 big joke. 1906 01:56:34,259 --> 01:56:38,069 You're absolutely right. Yeah, it's the I mean, the sales guys 1907 01:56:38,069 --> 01:56:41,969 within the advertising arena, they need inflated numbers just 1908 01:56:41,969 --> 01:56:45,989 as much as anybody else does. And it's me, it's not, I don't 1909 01:56:46,229 --> 01:56:50,159 Well, I guess, but then the truth cuts like a knife, though. 1910 01:56:50,159 --> 01:56:55,019 So if, let's just say you have a more accurate way to do stats, 1911 01:56:55,409 --> 01:56:59,939 and somebody is doing it. You know, Apple's doing some version 1912 01:56:59,939 --> 01:57:03,629 of that right now. And then an open, more open standard could 1913 01:57:03,629 --> 01:57:07,829 exist that does that, well, then at least the the truth at that 1914 01:57:07,829 --> 01:57:12,299 point begins to get so apparent, that it may be hard to put it 1915 01:57:12,299 --> 01:57:17,429 back in the box, so to speak. So I guess that could be, you know, 1916 01:57:17,429 --> 01:57:22,049 a way that it's like, well, I see I see over here an app, if 1917 01:57:22,049 --> 01:57:24,959 you got Apple stats on one side, and then you've got sort of an 1918 01:57:24,959 --> 01:57:29,249 open standard set of stats that are supported by maybe four or 1919 01:57:29,249 --> 01:57:33,599 five other apps over here. And then you begin to make that now 1920 01:57:33,599 --> 01:57:36,119 you have a lot of numbers to work with. And you can say, 1921 01:57:36,119 --> 01:57:40,679 Well, now we can get some pretty good ideas that we're at these 1922 01:57:40,679 --> 01:57:46,559 levels. And so then, then that becomes hard to ignore. And I 1923 01:57:46,559 --> 01:57:48,689 don't know what ends up happening from that. I mean, 1924 01:57:49,439 --> 01:57:54,359 maybe everybody, maybe the money goes down initially. But then it 1925 01:57:54,569 --> 01:58:00,119 ultimately though, isn't that better for everybody involved, 1926 01:58:00,119 --> 01:58:01,859 that everything's just more accurate, 1927 01:58:01,860 --> 01:58:05,370 but what we need is a price discovery mechanism. And that's 1928 01:58:05,370 --> 01:58:06,360 what we don't have. 1929 01:58:07,200 --> 01:58:08,670 Yes, okay. Yeah. 1930 01:58:09,300 --> 01:58:12,540 Or an honest price discovery mechanism, right. There's too 1931 01:58:12,540 --> 01:58:16,920 many layers. There's too much technology that, you know, bid 1932 01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:23,190 and ask in in AD exchanges, and the ad exchanges on both sides 1933 01:58:23,190 --> 01:58:26,670 of the equation, which is, I mean, if that happened on Wall 1934 01:58:26,670 --> 01:58:29,280 Street, there would be a revolt. So 1935 01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:32,520 Well, here's what I was. I've been thinking about this for the 1936 01:58:32,520 --> 01:58:36,000 last few weeks. There was an article that was it came out 1937 01:58:36,540 --> 01:58:41,220 about or somebody wrote about the New York Times The Daily 1938 01:58:41,280 --> 01:58:45,480 Show. Hmm. And it said that that the daily generated $42 million 1939 01:58:46,020 --> 01:58:54,630 in revenue a year okay, $42 million from one podcast. If 1940 01:58:54,630 --> 01:59:00,570 supposedly the industry is up, about 800 million total. Didn't 1941 01:59:00,570 --> 01:59:06,510 that means you have a humongous chunk of ad spend? In the top 1942 01:59:06,510 --> 01:59:10,560 let's say 15 to 20 podcasts. Yeah, by the time by the time 1943 01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:12,990 you get below that you're getting into pennies. 1944 01:59:13,980 --> 01:59:19,530 Also also if I may, these buyers Now, the last time I was in the 1945 01:59:19,530 --> 01:59:24,810 game was a little bit ago, a hot minute, but the buyers were all 1946 01:59:24,870 --> 01:59:31,080 young people. I would say a lot of the buyers came in word came 1947 01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:34,380 in as interns worked in the agencies because I met with a 1948 01:59:34,380 --> 01:59:40,020 lot of them on the on the go around with with me vo and so 1949 01:59:40,020 --> 01:59:46,590 now they're, you know, late 20s. Just about hitting 30 and they 1950 01:59:46,590 --> 01:59:50,850 are in that position. Because they understand the internet. 1951 01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:53,670 They understand Instagram, that's that's how they came into 1952 01:59:53,850 --> 01:59:59,970 positions. And they have not had the traditional branding school. 1953 02:00:02,760 --> 02:00:07,650 Some of the real basics of advertising, and they're much 1954 02:00:07,650 --> 02:00:10,140 more interested in Oh, you got me some Lakers tickets? Yeah, 1955 02:00:10,140 --> 02:00:14,070 no, we got to buy for you to the whole system. And that's my 1956 02:00:14,070 --> 02:00:20,340 point that we'd have to blow up the entire system. And I'm very 1957 02:00:20,340 --> 02:00:23,970 willing to do it, I think it'd be very interesting if we can 1958 02:00:23,970 --> 02:00:28,020 connect the advertisers. And this will happen in one degree, 1959 02:00:28,020 --> 02:00:30,660 the other the advertisers directly to the listening 1960 02:00:30,750 --> 02:00:34,740 statistics. And in my mind, it should be the same as someone 1961 02:00:35,040 --> 02:00:38,280 doing a value for value pledge payment with with lightning. 1962 02:00:38,610 --> 02:00:41,220 It's like, Oh, I got this many people listening. This is how 1963 02:00:41,220 --> 02:00:44,580 much money is going to the podcaster? It can be that 1964 02:00:44,580 --> 02:00:48,180 honest. Right? It really can't. Now, what is the impact one? 1965 02:00:48,390 --> 02:00:51,600 This is what I think would be really, the way it would be 1966 02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:55,680 successful is so once we've gone from, okay, the inflated number 1967 02:00:55,680 --> 02:00:58,350 said I had 1000 people listening, but turns out really 1968 02:00:58,350 --> 02:01:03,570 it's 100. But guarantee these 100 people heard your message. 1969 02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:07,560 Now we want to look at an impact study and recall and all of that 1970 02:01:07,560 --> 02:01:11,280 stuff. That's when you that science is pretty real. Let's 1971 02:01:11,280 --> 02:01:15,180 understand exactly what the recall is of an ad for someone 1972 02:01:15,180 --> 02:01:18,990 we know actually listened. And not just a sampling of people 1973 02:01:18,990 --> 02:01:20,130 who might have listened. 1974 02:01:20,310 --> 02:01:23,070 Yeah, because if you have 1000 listeners, if you have 1975 02:01:23,070 --> 02:01:26,730 supposedly, if you have if you have 1000 listeners, and they in 1976 02:01:26,910 --> 02:01:32,130 10 of them care about anything involving your host read, or you 1977 02:01:32,340 --> 02:01:35,550 versus 100 listeners, and most of them care about your host 1978 02:01:35,550 --> 02:01:38,310 read. I mean, that's a more valuable audience at lower 1979 02:01:38,310 --> 02:01:39,450 levels. Mm hmm. 1980 02:01:40,230 --> 02:01:43,410 You would think so you would think so? Yeah. 1981 02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:45,930 makes sense to me. 1982 02:01:46,410 --> 02:01:50,910 So. So, Dan. Yeah. I'd love for you to consider that. I mean, 1983 02:01:50,940 --> 02:01:54,570 because I think you are onto something. And there's 1984 02:01:54,570 --> 02:01:58,650 definitely a way to get a much better handle on the downloads, 1985 02:01:58,650 --> 02:02:01,950 it doesn't solve the ultimate problem. I just see all this 1986 02:02:01,980 --> 02:02:05,010 excitement and energy in you and like, man, I want that in the 1987 02:02:05,010 --> 02:02:06,450 system. That's for the future. 1988 02:02:07,980 --> 02:02:11,700 And I totally agree. It's just it's the hard part. The tricky 1989 02:02:11,700 --> 02:02:15,180 part what what we want it let's just take a step back and say, 1990 02:02:15,180 --> 02:02:19,980 What do we want? We want to know, really, I although we want 1991 02:02:19,980 --> 02:02:23,370 it to be anonymous, we want to understand our listeners better? 1992 02:02:23,430 --> 02:02:25,920 I don't want to know, I'm just going to stop you. I don't 1993 02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:29,820 believe that. No, no, I don't believe you say we want to know 1994 02:02:29,820 --> 02:02:33,450 Yeah, I'm interested. I want to know, I don't know, but I'm not 1995 02:02:33,480 --> 02:02:37,260 Yes. But the industry doesn't want to know the industry wants 1996 02:02:37,260 --> 02:02:41,010 to make a lot of money based upon an approved standard that 1997 02:02:41,010 --> 02:02:44,370 has a nice base. Okay, now let's go up to a trillion or whatever, 1998 02:02:44,370 --> 02:02:48,090 we're pushing for a billion dollars. So I just have to 1999 02:02:48,090 --> 02:02:51,750 interject that when you say we want to know, I don't. Yeah, you 2000 02:02:51,750 --> 02:02:56,250 do? Sure. Cridland does? Absolutely. Right. I think you'd 2001 02:02:56,250 --> 02:02:59,100 love to know more exactly what your listeners are doing by 2002 02:02:59,100 --> 02:03:02,790 listening. That's what you really want. Correct. You want 2003 02:03:02,790 --> 02:03:06,750 to know what your listeners are listening to? Yes. Okay. So then 2004 02:03:06,870 --> 02:03:08,370 that's not downloads? 2005 02:03:08,759 --> 02:03:11,579 No, it is not downloads. It's it's I guess listener behavior. 2006 02:03:11,579 --> 02:03:14,279 I mean, look at what you get, look at what you get. When you 2007 02:03:14,279 --> 02:03:18,449 post a YouTube video. you post a YouTube video, you can see not 2008 02:03:18,449 --> 02:03:21,029 just how many people watched it. You can see how long they 2009 02:03:21,029 --> 02:03:23,669 watched averages, but you can see individual things if 2010 02:03:23,669 --> 02:03:26,009 somebody are all if they're all leaving your video at a certain 2011 02:03:26,009 --> 02:03:28,079 point or skipping through. So yeah, but 2012 02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:30,660 I'm just going to push back. That's all trickery. This is 2013 02:03:30,660 --> 02:03:34,890 lying with statistics. I saw how Facebook went from Oh, three 2014 02:03:34,890 --> 02:03:37,560 seconds. That's view pay up advertiser. 2015 02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:40,860 Yeah, you're right. 2016 02:03:40,980 --> 02:03:44,820 So So what do we do? And then you, I'm giving you the answer. 2017 02:03:45,900 --> 02:03:50,850 The problem is we have a podcaster. And the podcaster is 2018 02:03:50,850 --> 02:03:55,230 three levels removed from the advertiser, maybe more. That's 2019 02:03:55,230 --> 02:04:02,100 the main problem. Now is not every podcaster is equipped to, 2020 02:04:03,180 --> 02:04:06,810 to do the direct sales. And you know, there's certainly a place 2021 02:04:06,810 --> 02:04:10,110 for an intermediary, but that intermediary has to have 2022 02:04:10,110 --> 02:04:13,770 something real to differentiate. I think that you can go to the 2023 02:04:13,770 --> 02:04:15,870 advertising companies say, Oh, look, here's what we've done. 2024 02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:18,960 We've got the real listening numbers for real listening 2025 02:04:18,960 --> 02:04:21,960 numbers. This is exciting, isn't it? Yeah, that's exciting. Okay, 2026 02:04:22,140 --> 02:04:26,340 so here's what the real numbers are. Okay. But you think these 2027 02:04:26,340 --> 02:04:29,340 numbers are lower? In fact, they're even better and we're 2028 02:04:29,340 --> 02:04:31,830 gonna charge you more from them. And here's why. And then you 2029 02:04:31,830 --> 02:04:35,400 roll out your recall and all which I'm sure works, but then 2030 02:04:35,400 --> 02:04:40,050 you're dealing with real data. And otherwise, to me personally, 2031 02:04:40,860 --> 02:04:43,890 you're just fighting against something which is you have no 2032 02:04:43,890 --> 02:04:48,030 chance. You can't even pay the barrier to entry to join the 2033 02:04:48,030 --> 02:04:54,810 club. They don't want you I don't want to you know, pissing 2034 02:04:54,810 --> 02:04:59,070 your cornflakes but you're so smart and and I'd love to work 2035 02:04:59,070 --> 02:05:04,890 with you on Making a new system. Let the IAB run around with this 2036 02:05:04,890 --> 02:05:08,670 one, then they're the only game in town. We could be something 2037 02:05:08,670 --> 02:05:09,270 different. 2038 02:05:09,450 --> 02:05:10,770 I mean, I'm all in. 2039 02:05:11,849 --> 02:05:20,579 All right. Well, here's a crazy idea, though. So no in circles 2040 02:05:20,609 --> 02:05:24,539 that it is not. I'm not gonna say this. 2041 02:05:25,290 --> 02:05:27,450 This is Dave being political? No, 2042 02:05:27,870 --> 02:05:28,320 I'm trying. 2043 02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:34,710 I'm trying. Okay. Clear. Clearly, we are all on board 2044 02:05:34,830 --> 02:05:38,850 with, with privacy, no tracking, all these kinds of things. I 2045 02:05:38,850 --> 02:05:43,020 mean, these are all fundamentals. It's why we love 2046 02:05:43,020 --> 02:05:48,930 things like lightning, Bitcoin, all these things. But so here's, 2047 02:05:48,960 --> 02:05:52,650 here's the thing that probably would piss everybody off. But it 2048 02:05:52,980 --> 02:05:58,920 is. I mean, what about an open an open listening? tracking 2049 02:05:58,950 --> 02:06:00,240 standard? Yeah, 2050 02:06:00,269 --> 02:06:03,839 yeah, I'm all for that. But why not? I mean, there's easy, 2051 02:06:03,929 --> 02:06:05,849 there's easier ways to do it, I think, but 2052 02:06:06,660 --> 02:06:11,340 I don't really care. I don't care risk so much. If If I'm 2053 02:06:11,340 --> 02:06:12,600 tracked, if I'm, 2054 02:06:12,600 --> 02:06:16,440 if I'm going to, I have a couple of ways to support my podcast. 2055 02:06:18,330 --> 02:06:23,070 Okay, I sit through some ads, sometimes I think I usually fast 2056 02:06:23,070 --> 02:06:27,990 forward through a lot of them. I want to make donations, I want 2057 02:06:27,990 --> 02:06:32,130 to make pledges. As long as I know, it's happening. I get 2058 02:06:32,130 --> 02:06:35,550 options all the time. You know, try, you know, do you want this 2059 02:06:35,550 --> 02:06:38,100 app to track you to make it better? No, I say no to 2060 02:06:38,100 --> 02:06:43,140 everything. But I think enough people would say okay, you know, 2061 02:06:43,170 --> 02:06:45,420 that's, you know, we all understand. 2062 02:06:46,710 --> 02:06:47,730 Okay, backtrack. 2063 02:06:49,290 --> 02:06:52,050 Free turns out to be really expensive. That's what that's 2064 02:06:52,050 --> 02:06:55,050 what I think everyone is starting to realize. So you got 2065 02:06:55,050 --> 02:06:58,170 to do something, give something and if it was more like, Oh, I 2066 02:06:58,170 --> 02:07:00,810 just want to know, if you're listening, and I'm not tracking 2067 02:07:00,810 --> 02:07:04,350 everything else you're doing, what your what, who you're 2068 02:07:04,350 --> 02:07:07,470 emailing how you're holding your device. I'm not doing any of 2069 02:07:07,470 --> 02:07:11,910 that. Because I don't have that information. I truly only have a 2070 02:07:11,910 --> 02:07:17,880 listening metric from you. And if you make it, you could say if 2071 02:07:17,880 --> 02:07:23,550 you really don't want that, turn it off. That's fine. I'm all for 2072 02:07:23,550 --> 02:07:27,090 it. I'm all for an open listen standard. In fact, it's kind of 2073 02:07:27,090 --> 02:07:29,790 infuriating that hasn't been created before, as long as it's 2074 02:07:29,820 --> 02:07:34,260 open and transparent. Yeah, it's the secret shit that everyone 2075 02:07:34,260 --> 02:07:35,220 gets mad about. 2076 02:07:35,639 --> 02:07:37,889 It's that Yeah, just say I think that's right. It's this. It's 2077 02:07:37,889 --> 02:07:40,259 the secret stuff. It's like if you had, you know, an 2078 02:07:40,259 --> 02:07:41,099 anonymized? 2079 02:07:41,190 --> 02:07:43,980 Well, this is why I like the lightning idea that we had Dave. 2080 02:07:44,490 --> 02:07:48,960 Right. If you're just counting one, Satoshi, per minute that is 2081 02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:52,830 being sent. I mean, yeah, I'm sure you can figure out through 2082 02:07:52,830 --> 02:07:55,890 a number of ways who that person is everything's technically 2083 02:07:55,890 --> 02:08:00,750 possible. But it'll be unique from a node, which, by 2084 02:08:00,750 --> 02:08:04,800 definition is not, you know, not connected to somebody. So it's, 2085 02:08:04,830 --> 02:08:07,800 it's unique. You can have you can add your identifiers, and 2086 02:08:07,800 --> 02:08:13,650 whatever you need to do, as to you know, why this came in? And 2087 02:08:13,860 --> 02:08:16,530 the only people who have this data is the person who was 2088 02:08:16,530 --> 02:08:19,860 listening, or the person who was anyone basically, who was on the 2089 02:08:19,860 --> 02:08:22,680 payment list? Well, 2090 02:08:24,750 --> 02:08:27,180 yeah, I mean, ultimately, the down download, we're trying to 2091 02:08:27,180 --> 02:08:31,470 improve downloads, because I think let me say it this way, I 2092 02:08:31,470 --> 02:08:35,070 think we're trying to improve download stat accuracy, because 2093 02:08:35,070 --> 02:08:41,430 we're afraid of the, of what we really requires to be to be 2094 02:08:41,430 --> 02:08:43,110 truly accurate. We're afraid of 2095 02:08:43,110 --> 02:08:44,040 what will reveal 2096 02:08:44,759 --> 02:08:48,359 privacy, right? Yeah. privacy, tracking all these kinds of 2097 02:08:48,359 --> 02:08:52,259 things. But maybe, you know, maybe that that issue is just to 2098 02:08:52,649 --> 02:08:56,279 me, it's more overblown them than we thought it is me because 2099 02:08:56,399 --> 02:09:00,209 most people like I don't care if somebody knows that I get, you 2100 02:09:00,209 --> 02:09:04,889 know, skipped a donation segment in a podcast. I mean, like, it 2101 02:09:04,889 --> 02:09:08,459 just doesn't bother me that much. And even if you say, oh, 2102 02:09:08,459 --> 02:09:11,579 they're gonna be some podcast apps out there that say, Hell 2103 02:09:11,579 --> 02:09:16,079 no, there is no way on Earth. We're going to give back stats 2104 02:09:16,289 --> 02:09:18,959 to the host about what about what the listener behavior was. 2105 02:09:18,959 --> 02:09:19,949 That's most most of 2106 02:09:19,950 --> 02:09:20,970 them most of? Yeah, 2107 02:09:21,510 --> 02:09:24,330 that's fine, though. If you had, wait, Apple's already doing it, 2108 02:09:24,630 --> 02:09:26,370 and if they're 50% of the market, why is 2109 02:09:26,370 --> 02:09:29,370 everyone complaining if Apple's already doing exactly that? 2110 02:09:30,059 --> 02:09:33,509 Yeah. So like, if you had an open standard that did that, 2111 02:09:34,139 --> 02:09:39,029 then because he Okay, so here's, here's what's bothering me. The, 2112 02:09:39,419 --> 02:09:43,469 um, if I look through my overcast app on my phone right 2113 02:09:43,469 --> 02:09:48,539 now, I've got, oh my gosh, hundreds of episodes of 2114 02:09:48,539 --> 02:09:51,539 podcasts, that I will never listen to just sitting there. 2115 02:09:51,929 --> 02:09:53,939 They're just, they're gonna be sitting there. They'll never 2116 02:09:53,940 --> 02:09:56,550 be late. You're gonna have a new phone, and you'll never listen 2117 02:09:56,550 --> 02:09:57,780 to those episodes. I know. 2118 02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:04,140 So in doing so, because I just don't have the time. And so they 2119 02:10:04,170 --> 02:10:07,110 all every one of those counted as a download legitimate or not 2120 02:10:07,110 --> 02:10:11,430 accurate or not, it did count as a download. And so, but I never 2121 02:10:11,430 --> 02:10:16,380 actually listened to it. So it doesn't matter whether or not 2122 02:10:16,920 --> 02:10:20,550 the accurate see if the downloads worked. I mean, it's 2123 02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:21,300 the guy 2124 02:10:21,330 --> 02:10:24,540 trickery is is right in front of everyone's eyes. But no one ever 2125 02:10:24,540 --> 02:10:26,790 talks about it. It's the elephant in the room. 2126 02:10:27,269 --> 02:10:32,189 And it wasn't malicious on on my part on anyone. Yeah, it's just 2127 02:10:32,459 --> 02:10:35,699 set it up and thought I might like this podcast two years ago, 2128 02:10:35,699 --> 02:10:38,999 and I've really listened to half of one episode and it never 2129 02:10:38,999 --> 02:10:41,969 unsubscribed. Yeah, because I'm like, well, maybe I'll listen to 2130 02:10:41,969 --> 02:10:42,059 it. 2131 02:10:42,269 --> 02:10:47,339 By the way, as an aside, wow, so much great work could be done in 2132 02:10:47,339 --> 02:10:52,109 podcast apps for managing your subscriptions. So many good 2133 02:10:52,109 --> 02:10:53,609 things could be done with that. 2134 02:10:56,970 --> 02:11:02,010 So all that being said, What? Tell us more about that as well. 2135 02:11:02,010 --> 02:11:02,100 I 2136 02:11:02,100 --> 02:11:06,750 mean, sorry. No, I mean, it's, it's it's like, it's one step, 2137 02:11:06,780 --> 02:11:09,270 it's one step in the right direction. And what it does is 2138 02:11:09,270 --> 02:11:13,470 it allows people who, who we would The problem with this is, 2139 02:11:13,500 --> 02:11:18,510 of course, we need support and buy in from all of the major 2140 02:11:18,510 --> 02:11:23,280 podcast apps, and we need it from from, you know, really even 2141 02:11:23,280 --> 02:11:27,450 more than that. But the platforms like fireside where we 2142 02:11:27,570 --> 02:11:30,330 are hosting the files and gathering the statistics would 2143 02:11:30,690 --> 02:11:34,260 see something with this unique ID of requests that's been made 2144 02:11:34,260 --> 02:11:38,220 with the unique ID and we would right away be able to say, just 2145 02:11:38,220 --> 02:11:41,760 count those up. Now, again, this only addresses downloads doesn't 2146 02:11:41,760 --> 02:11:44,550 address listener behavior. But we could just say, well count up 2147 02:11:44,550 --> 02:11:47,460 how many of them came in and find just the uniques. That's 2148 02:11:47,460 --> 02:11:51,180 how many downloads you have. And those could be even segregated 2149 02:11:51,180 --> 02:11:54,360 as trusted downloads, because there's still going to be other 2150 02:11:54,660 --> 02:11:57,780 systems and clients that don't have that. Let's say Apple 2151 02:11:57,780 --> 02:12:01,230 doesn't implement adding the, you know, the token to their the 2152 02:12:01,230 --> 02:12:04,470 key to the to that for a while, well, we already know, there's a 2153 02:12:04,470 --> 02:12:07,710 huge chunk of downloads that come from Apple podcasts app, 2154 02:12:08,010 --> 02:12:10,020 those are not going to be included in your trusted 2155 02:12:10,020 --> 02:12:12,510 downloads, but you can go and look at their stats for them. 2156 02:12:12,660 --> 02:12:16,800 But what it does let us do is it does let us see that if there's 2157 02:12:16,800 --> 02:12:20,250 three people in on your floor on your team, and they all use 2158 02:12:20,250 --> 02:12:22,800 their phones to download an episode of your podcast, it's 2159 02:12:22,800 --> 02:12:25,050 not going to be counted as just one download, it's also not 2160 02:12:25,050 --> 02:12:27,420 going to be counted as 20, it's going to be counted as three 2161 02:12:27,450 --> 02:12:31,290 because three people had unique identifiers associated with that 2162 02:12:31,290 --> 02:12:33,960 download. So right away with your stack, it's perfect. You 2163 02:12:33,960 --> 02:12:36,930 can say boom, that's three downloads, or that's 3000 or 2164 02:12:36,930 --> 02:12:40,890 30,000. And at least you know, that there is a segment of your 2165 02:12:40,890 --> 02:12:44,310 downloads that are trusted, that are real, that are actual 2166 02:12:44,310 --> 02:12:47,010 people. Now what they do after they download it, we still don't 2167 02:12:47,010 --> 02:12:51,120 know that sucks. But at least now we have real numbers around 2168 02:12:51,540 --> 02:12:54,840 around those downloads. And we are not beholden to something 2169 02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:59,430 like the IAB been and and hosting companies like mine are 2170 02:12:59,430 --> 02:13:02,790 not beholden to the IAB to write them out a big check and go 2171 02:13:02,790 --> 02:13:05,490 through the certification process to get what are 2172 02:13:05,490 --> 02:13:09,090 considered to be trusted. downloads, we now know what 2173 02:13:09,090 --> 02:13:12,240 trusted downloads are, even if they only represent a segment of 2174 02:13:12,240 --> 02:13:16,500 your total downloads, we really do know. So it's something 2175 02:13:17,850 --> 02:13:19,800 that so here's how 2176 02:13:19,800 --> 02:13:21,780 easy to implement. So we implement 2177 02:13:22,230 --> 02:13:24,840 it. Yeah, it's dead simple to implement. Oh, I already did it. 2178 02:13:25,020 --> 02:13:29,940 And that apoc friend already did it. Right. Um, so the the other 2179 02:13:30,150 --> 02:13:35,340 the biggest pushback I saw, and I can't, the one that made that 2180 02:13:35,430 --> 02:13:40,890 this seemed to be the most legit is that this lowers the bar for 2181 02:13:40,890 --> 02:13:49,110 for download fraud. So currently, with IB, stats, they 2182 02:13:49,230 --> 02:13:54,180 may not be accurate. Clearly, you know, they're not but they, 2183 02:13:54,570 --> 02:13:59,190 in order to do fraudulent download, so to speak, you have 2184 02:13:59,190 --> 02:14:03,510 to go to some some bigger links, like you have to set up a cell 2185 02:14:03,510 --> 02:14:07,410 phone farm, or something like that. And in order to pump that 2186 02:14:07,410 --> 02:14:09,000 out, I'm sure there's other ways to do it, you just 2187 02:14:09,030 --> 02:14:14,790 auto generate a new code, a new a new unique ID every x number 2188 02:14:14,790 --> 02:14:17,190 of minutes. That's that's the pushback that 2189 02:14:18,810 --> 02:14:21,600 could you definitely could but it's not like we would be 2190 02:14:21,600 --> 02:14:24,690 abandoning the old techniques, either. It's not like we would 2191 02:14:24,750 --> 02:14:27,630 throw out all of the other things that we do, this would be 2192 02:14:27,630 --> 02:14:31,590 additional. So if we're looking at what you know, we have IP 2193 02:14:31,590 --> 02:14:34,950 addresses that are considered to be bad because they're known 2194 02:14:34,950 --> 02:14:38,490 farms or data centers, we still throw those out. If we see, 2195 02:14:38,610 --> 02:14:43,710 yeah, if we see 100,000 downloads over a 24 hour period 2196 02:14:43,710 --> 02:14:46,890 from one IP address. It's probably not real. So we still 2197 02:14:46,890 --> 02:14:49,740 use those guidelines and recommendations. We just add 2198 02:14:49,740 --> 02:14:52,680 this as a layer on top. It doesn't replace it necessarily. 2199 02:14:52,680 --> 02:14:55,320 We still have to do the diligence that we've been doing 2200 02:14:55,320 --> 02:14:58,920 all this time for our stats, but now we have a segment that gives 2201 02:14:58,920 --> 02:15:02,310 us even additional assurance that this was a real person or 2202 02:15:02,310 --> 02:15:05,190 this was an individual person? Well, yeah, you're you're it 2203 02:15:05,190 --> 02:15:08,370 could be circumvented, just like everything can be done. It 2204 02:15:08,370 --> 02:15:14,130 seems to me that people have no problem implementing this. We've 2205 02:15:14,130 --> 02:15:17,160 already had a couple implementations, we should have 2206 02:15:17,160 --> 02:15:19,590 you back in a bit and tell me what you see what you're seeing 2207 02:15:19,590 --> 02:15:24,330 on your server. And, and more importantly, is anyone 2208 02:15:24,330 --> 02:15:33,840 interested? Will I be it to me, it's like I likely scenarios I 2209 02:15:34,050 --> 02:15:36,570 would say, this is great. All right, we're going to implement 2210 02:15:36,570 --> 02:15:44,160 this and now you pay $75,000 to join. So I understand the 2211 02:15:44,160 --> 02:15:46,050 plight, I really do. 2212 02:15:48,450 --> 02:15:50,160 This is the hostess dilemma. 2213 02:15:50,490 --> 02:15:54,930 Well, it's it's a big part of it. And, you know, you're what I 2214 02:15:54,930 --> 02:15:58,080 heard you say is, is the important crux of the problem? 2215 02:15:58,800 --> 02:16:02,160 Will Apple do it? And I understand you can blend it all 2216 02:16:02,160 --> 02:16:06,750 and all that, but it's just more IAB crap, I really appreciate 2217 02:16:06,750 --> 02:16:09,480 the thinking that's gone into it. But I would, I would love to 2218 02:16:10,440 --> 02:16:14,490 see a write up of an an open listening statistic standard, 2219 02:16:15,090 --> 02:16:17,850 even if it's just what we've done now that, you know, to get 2220 02:16:17,850 --> 02:16:23,850 you on on the way, but for just as a podcaster, myself, I would 2221 02:16:23,850 --> 02:16:27,060 like to know, when people are listening or not, I'm not going 2222 02:16:27,060 --> 02:16:31,500 to sell ads. I don't think ever, I'll never say never, but I 2223 02:16:31,500 --> 02:16:37,290 don't see a need for it. But I'm very interested as a producer, 2224 02:16:37,290 --> 02:16:40,800 I'm interested in understanding where people are dropping off or 2225 02:16:40,800 --> 02:16:43,440 what's working or what's not working, and just some some 2226 02:16:43,440 --> 02:16:47,280 basic things. And I'd love to work on creating that. And I 2227 02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:49,560 think I think somewhere along the line that'll fall out of the 2228 02:16:49,560 --> 02:16:55,080 bottom. But we have to consider zigging to the zag, you know, is 2229 02:16:55,080 --> 02:16:58,830 always the same. And we spend 1015 years finally coming up 2230 02:16:58,830 --> 02:17:02,040 with a standard. And now we have a standard is not great, but 2231 02:17:02,040 --> 02:17:05,910 everyone agrees on it. And then Who's this? Who is this annoying 2232 02:17:05,910 --> 02:17:11,700 group of people? Shut up. We know it's not accurate. So I'm 2233 02:17:11,700 --> 02:17:15,480 just saying that, you know, the advertisers that we need to go 2234 02:17:15,480 --> 02:17:18,390 after the advertisers frustrated, advertisers are 2235 02:17:18,390 --> 02:17:20,610 getting hosed. They're not they know about it. They're going 2236 02:17:20,610 --> 02:17:23,040 back to Google and Facebook and saying, Hey, hold on a second. 2237 02:17:23,310 --> 02:17:25,890 What happened here and Facebook has to admit to stuff and to 2238 02:17:25,890 --> 02:17:31,290 getting refunds. And so they're there. They're not stupid. Is 2239 02:17:31,290 --> 02:17:33,870 this sophisticated people and they're going to understand what 2240 02:17:33,870 --> 02:17:37,200 works for them and what doesn't work for them. But we have to go 2241 02:17:37,200 --> 02:17:39,720 around all these organizations that are sitting there just 2242 02:17:39,720 --> 02:17:40,890 picking off bucks. 2243 02:17:41,550 --> 02:17:46,320 One thing I noticed is that in the stats, in you'll see these 2244 02:17:46,320 --> 02:17:51,270 were a look, I looked at Lipson stats that they published for 2245 02:17:51,270 --> 02:17:56,820 November. And then buzzsprout stats, yeah, they published and 2246 02:17:56,880 --> 02:18:01,710 the they're completely different. Like in Lipson shows 2247 02:18:01,710 --> 02:18:05,520 Apple podcast is 64% of the total total downloads. 2248 02:18:05,910 --> 02:18:12,150 buzzsprout shows 32%. I mean, that's, that's half. And then, 2249 02:18:12,570 --> 02:18:12,960 yeah, what's 2250 02:18:12,960 --> 02:18:15,270 going on? And why is that? What's the explanation? 2251 02:18:16,019 --> 02:18:23,969 Yes, like that. So Tom said that it buzzsprout they listen, they 2252 02:18:24,029 --> 02:18:27,119 they split out apple core media from Apple podcasts, they make a 2253 02:18:27,119 --> 02:18:31,799 difference. Okay. In C, and I don't understand it. That seems 2254 02:18:31,799 --> 02:18:37,199 like such an obvious thing to do. I don't understand why, why 2255 02:18:37,619 --> 02:18:41,789 this reluctance to do that. Do you? Do you know why that may be 2256 02:18:41,789 --> 02:18:45,179 done? Why would somebody be reluctant to be to split that 2257 02:18:45,179 --> 02:18:45,539 out? 2258 02:18:46,920 --> 02:18:51,480 I really don't know. I mean, it has to go back to what Adam was 2259 02:18:51,480 --> 02:18:55,410 saying. I think that that the more that this is a mystery, the 2260 02:18:55,410 --> 02:18:58,470 more of a mystery it is. And if we know that, you know, because 2261 02:18:59,130 --> 02:19:03,090 it's like you said, if those I remember, when we figured out 2262 02:19:03,120 --> 02:19:06,300 range requests back in the day, you know, you know, 10 plus 2263 02:19:06,300 --> 02:19:09,720 years ago, and we were looking at our downloads, and we're 2264 02:19:09,720 --> 02:19:12,840 like, oh, I guess they're not what we've been selling them 2265 02:19:12,840 --> 02:19:15,600 for. What do we do? Because like, you're you know 2266 02:19:15,600 --> 02:19:16,140 it, 2267 02:19:16,349 --> 02:19:19,979 what do you do? What do you do, right? Like, where's the money 2268 02:19:19,979 --> 02:19:22,319 that we are supposed to be making from this? It's not 2269 02:19:22,319 --> 02:19:24,929 right. And so we had to, like reboot everything. And I think 2270 02:19:24,929 --> 02:19:28,349 that's how would that affect this whole industry, if the 2271 02:19:28,349 --> 02:19:32,639 shows that are supposedly getting 10s or even hundreds of 2272 02:19:32,639 --> 02:19:35,849 1000s of downloads or more, all of a sudden, it's half of that. 2273 02:19:35,880 --> 02:19:42,120 Here's the good news. Even though Spotify has everything 2274 02:19:42,120 --> 02:19:45,960 the advertiser wants, they've got it all. They know who you 2275 02:19:45,960 --> 02:19:48,540 are. They've got your credit card, they can tie it to real 2276 02:19:48,540 --> 02:19:52,170 world behavior. They've got your listening behavior, they've got 2277 02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:55,920 everything they can insert recommend test stuff with you. 2278 02:19:56,970 --> 02:20:00,810 Spotify is not going to win with advertising. They Do not have 2279 02:20:00,810 --> 02:20:07,170 the market. So all this IAB stuff is really not even for you 2280 02:20:07,170 --> 02:20:10,860 damn, they just taken money from you just shut you. Seriously, 2281 02:20:10,860 --> 02:20:14,820 I'm saying what I feel I may be wrong, but to me it feels like, 2282 02:20:14,970 --> 02:20:17,160 Alright, well just take money from these guys. But really we 2283 02:20:17,160 --> 02:20:20,280 know who has the data. We know who the real guys are. They've 2284 02:20:20,280 --> 02:20:22,560 got it all. And I don't know if they're sharing it if they're 2285 02:20:22,560 --> 02:20:26,310 IAB certified, I have no idea. It's Spotify may be selling 2286 02:20:26,340 --> 02:20:29,760 outside the whole system direct to their existing advertisers. 2287 02:20:29,910 --> 02:20:33,900 Are they are they IAB compliant? Because you know that they're 2288 02:20:33,900 --> 02:20:37,110 not reporting downloads to their to their advertisers, their 2289 02:20:37,110 --> 02:20:41,160 buyers, their reporting profiles, and real listening 2290 02:20:41,160 --> 02:20:44,280 behavior, random graphics. So you guys are in a whole 2291 02:20:44,280 --> 02:20:49,200 different playing field with square wheels. So let's leapfrog 2292 02:20:49,200 --> 02:20:54,360 over that and give them an open open way. At least start with 2293 02:20:54,360 --> 02:20:57,810 your unique ID. But let's build for something for the future. 2294 02:20:58,170 --> 02:21:03,300 I'm not against advertising. It's got to be appropriate. And 2295 02:21:03,300 --> 02:21:06,000 it has to be fair, and advertising is inherently 2296 02:21:06,000 --> 02:21:11,580 dishonest. It's hard for me, it's hard for me to see how how 2297 02:21:11,580 --> 02:21:12,360 it will ever 2298 02:21:12,360 --> 02:21:17,460 really, really work. To me the quest for big for the biggest 2299 02:21:17,460 --> 02:21:23,190 numbers in order to attract the biggest farce. Yeah, if you're 2300 02:21:23,190 --> 02:21:27,510 if you're a podcast, wouldn't you rather have? I think James 2301 02:21:27,510 --> 02:21:30,330 mentioned this a few couple weeks ago, if you're a podcast, 2302 02:21:30,330 --> 02:21:35,460 wouldn't you rather have 70 advertisers for you know, 2303 02:21:35,460 --> 02:21:39,900 smaller amounts than three for big amounts, because at least 2304 02:21:39,900 --> 02:21:44,340 then you have some, you don't feel as much pressure sensor 2305 02:21:44,370 --> 02:21:47,370 data. That's not even what a podcaster wants a podcaster 2306 02:21:47,370 --> 02:21:51,480 wants to pay the podcasters rent, right? That's the bot, I 2307 02:21:51,480 --> 02:21:54,180 don't want to have to understand advertising. I really don't want 2308 02:21:54,180 --> 02:21:57,540 it in my show at all. You know, but it's I've been told I can 2309 02:21:57,540 --> 02:22:00,720 make money if I get numbers. And then here's all these numbers 2310 02:22:00,720 --> 02:22:03,810 and the advertising doesn't come and I'm left with 25 bucks at 2311 02:22:03,810 --> 02:22:06,750 the end of the month. I'm a little disillusioned. Where and 2312 02:22:06,750 --> 02:22:10,020 I've said it before you can you can make a living off of a high 2313 02:22:10,020 --> 02:22:13,170 quality podcast with high quality listeners with 1000 2314 02:22:13,170 --> 02:22:17,100 listeners. They will support you no matter what Avenue you 2315 02:22:17,100 --> 02:22:20,340 choose. But if you're just going for numbers, numbers, numbers, 2316 02:22:21,480 --> 02:22:25,740 it's it's it's not like the old world. This is not how it's 2317 02:22:25,740 --> 02:22:30,210 gonna work anymore. There will be no more 1015 20 million 2318 02:22:30,210 --> 02:22:34,470 download Joe Rogan's piece a piece in every single podcast 2319 02:22:34,470 --> 02:22:36,360 app, everyone's subscribed. I don't know, if they're all 2320 02:22:36,360 --> 02:22:39,300 listening. I certainly don't hit every single episode. Well, on 2321 02:22:39,300 --> 02:22:44,520 Spotify, of course, I don't download any. So it's now it's 2322 02:22:44,520 --> 02:22:48,810 all about how valuable is your tribe? How valuable is the 2323 02:22:48,810 --> 02:22:52,590 listenership that you have? And as a if I were to start a new 2324 02:22:52,590 --> 02:22:55,350 podcast, I'm like, Okay, I need to have some commercial things 2325 02:22:55,350 --> 02:22:59,040 in here. Whether it's advertorial host read or 2326 02:22:59,040 --> 02:23:02,550 inserted ads, I think it would be better to say, look, here's, 2327 02:23:02,580 --> 02:23:06,270 here's these people, they're cool with me doing some ads, 2328 02:23:06,300 --> 02:23:09,330 maybe we need to turn it around and audition advertisers. But 2329 02:23:09,330 --> 02:23:12,060 you have to show your valuable first. And the way to do that is 2330 02:23:12,060 --> 02:23:17,190 to show what's really true. So here's the here's these 1000 2331 02:23:17,190 --> 02:23:23,850 people, they listen to 75% of the entire show, right? And 2332 02:23:23,880 --> 02:23:27,480 here's what I know about them. Because there's only 1000. I 2333 02:23:27,480 --> 02:23:31,830 know, I'm real well. You know, there's a lot more you can do, 2334 02:23:31,830 --> 02:23:36,030 we once did a no agenda listener survey just on a Google Doc. And 2335 02:23:36,030 --> 02:23:40,170 people put their salaries in there, and they're what job they 2336 02:23:40,170 --> 02:23:44,790 have their age everything. and years and years and years ago. 2337 02:23:45,270 --> 02:23:48,300 And, and we learned a lot and they loved it. They loved 2338 02:23:48,300 --> 02:23:51,000 helping out with the whole idea. It's like, Okay, well, you know, 2339 02:23:51,000 --> 02:23:53,370 you're all over the map. And here's, here's the spikes that 2340 02:23:53,370 --> 02:23:56,760 we see. And it was their own little demographic survey. And I 2341 02:23:56,760 --> 02:24:00,090 know if I'd said look, we want to use some of this to, to get 2342 02:24:00,090 --> 02:24:03,330 some advertisers to, to pay for the for the show here, we're 2343 02:24:03,330 --> 02:24:06,330 going to go to we're going to approach these people. I mean, 2344 02:24:06,360 --> 02:24:09,270 there's a whole different way of doing it, that it's just never 2345 02:24:09,270 --> 02:24:13,860 been explored. And hosting companies came into it came to 2346 02:24:13,860 --> 02:24:17,220 life because of their lack of tools to create an RSS feed. 2347 02:24:17,910 --> 02:24:21,960 And, and a lack of server space and bandwidth available to the 2348 02:24:21,960 --> 02:24:26,160 consumer. And then to a large degree, it I think, is still 2349 02:24:26,190 --> 02:24:29,880 more bandwidth game than anything. And the supplement 2350 02:24:29,880 --> 02:24:33,450 that has kept every one a lot or a lot of companies alive, small 2351 02:24:33,450 --> 02:24:37,380 these smaller companies has been the advertising game. And I 2352 02:24:37,380 --> 02:24:41,190 understand the reluctance not to fuck with it, because that's the 2353 02:24:41,190 --> 02:24:44,370 lifeblood. And I think there's probably people angry just 2354 02:24:44,370 --> 02:24:48,630 hearing me on the show. And they I don't know what I'm talking 2355 02:24:48,630 --> 02:24:51,210 about, etc. But I think the elephant in the room is clear. 2356 02:24:51,210 --> 02:24:55,320 And I all I'm saying as I'll just repeat it last time, let's 2357 02:24:55,320 --> 02:24:59,370 look for a new way forward to deliver something that's honest 2358 02:24:59,370 --> 02:25:03,150 and let's not Be afraid of what truth comes up, because that 2359 02:25:03,150 --> 02:25:06,150 truth will only be more valuable. That's my that's my 2360 02:25:06,150 --> 02:25:09,450 vision on it. Your mileage may vary. 2361 02:25:11,070 --> 02:25:15,180 That the open listening stats, opening listener, but sort of an 2362 02:25:15,180 --> 02:25:20,700 open listening behavior standard. I mean, I think that 2363 02:25:20,700 --> 02:25:23,430 that, yeah, and like I said, Everybody thinks it's gonna be 2364 02:25:23,430 --> 02:25:26,730 okay, as prophecy is tracking. But I don't know that that's 2365 02:25:26,730 --> 02:25:29,100 really Yes, there are people out there that are gonna have a 2366 02:25:29,100 --> 02:25:31,680 problem with with they're going to have a specific problem with 2367 02:25:31,680 --> 02:25:35,670 that type of thing. But I feel like, you know, the the 2368 02:25:35,730 --> 02:25:39,360 emergence of things like ad blockers, and things like that 2369 02:25:39,360 --> 02:25:41,490 have less to do with tracking 2370 02:25:42,060 --> 02:25:46,890 and more to do with annoyance annoying noise? Yes. Yes, spot. 2371 02:25:47,610 --> 02:25:52,350 It's annoying. Like it makes the only reason I use an ad blocker 2372 02:25:52,860 --> 02:25:59,070 on on my phone is because I keep because it makes it slow. And I 2373 02:25:59,070 --> 02:26:02,580 can't read the page, because there's so much junk all over 2374 02:26:02,580 --> 02:26:06,210 it. Right? If If all that I really don't care if people 2375 02:26:06,210 --> 02:26:09,420 track me that much. I mean, I'm just not it doesn't bother me 2376 02:26:09,420 --> 02:26:13,470 that much. But so and that being said, I mean, I don't really 2377 02:26:13,470 --> 02:26:16,650 think anybody would care. As long as it's not, not anybody, I 2378 02:26:16,650 --> 02:26:21,150 don't think a lot of people would care as long as they could 2379 02:26:21,150 --> 02:26:26,940 opt into it. And they could be assured that it was not going to 2380 02:26:26,940 --> 02:26:28,920 impact the quality of their Listen, 2381 02:26:29,130 --> 02:26:32,130 I agree with you, Dave. And I think that this is a contract, a 2382 02:26:32,130 --> 02:26:37,860 social contract that has to be presented between the listener, 2383 02:26:37,860 --> 02:26:42,030 the creator, and all the advertising people in the 2384 02:26:42,030 --> 02:26:46,290 middle. Which I'm going to include the hosting companies in 2385 02:26:46,290 --> 02:26:51,210 there. And hey, you know, what, how about this, like the verge. 2386 02:26:51,600 --> 02:26:54,750 Now I have pie holes and all kinds of blockers, but you go, 2387 02:26:54,810 --> 02:26:58,440 you go to the verge to test. I mean, there's there's megabytes 2388 02:26:58,440 --> 02:27:01,740 of stuff flying back and forth, just loading one page. It's 2389 02:27:01,770 --> 02:27:05,190 insane what they're doing. And you're right. It's people, it's 2390 02:27:05,190 --> 02:27:08,820 become annoying to people. My wife said the same thing, man, 2391 02:27:08,820 --> 02:27:10,890 there's so many ads on everything's popping up 2392 02:27:10,890 --> 02:27:14,610 everywhere. And, and she, she recognizes the tracking. But 2393 02:27:14,610 --> 02:27:17,280 you're right. It's more the annoyance, the slow loads, all 2394 02:27:17,280 --> 02:27:19,890 the stuff that just popping up everywhere. It's obfuscating 2395 02:27:19,890 --> 02:27:25,020 stuff you can't get through it. And paywalls on websites is 2396 02:27:25,020 --> 02:27:28,110 another thing which just needs to be solved. But they don't 2397 02:27:28,110 --> 02:27:30,990 want to solve it. Because they know that it's far more 2398 02:27:30,990 --> 02:27:33,990 profitable to get people to subscribe with a credit card. 2399 02:27:34,260 --> 02:27:38,250 And their usage might even go down. Or they may not show up at 2400 02:27:38,250 --> 02:27:41,040 all. It'll be months before they cancel it. I mean, these it's 2401 02:27:41,040 --> 02:27:48,360 dishonest all of it is that if we try some honesty, which is my 2402 02:27:48,360 --> 02:27:53,520 motto for 2021. Try some honesty. What have you got to 2403 02:27:53,520 --> 02:28:00,450 lose at this point? Yeah, try some honesty. Try honesty. It 2404 02:28:00,450 --> 02:28:01,260 tastes great. 2405 02:28:02,460 --> 02:28:05,580 What do you think, Dan? What do you think would be the obstacle 2406 02:28:05,580 --> 02:28:10,290 to any? What do you think would be the obstacle to a proposition 2407 02:28:10,290 --> 02:28:13,020 for a for an open listening behavior standard? 2408 02:28:13,830 --> 02:28:18,450 I mean, I, I think it's, it's the inevitable future. And I 2409 02:28:18,450 --> 02:28:23,340 think it will take, it will take people like us working on it for 2410 02:28:23,340 --> 02:28:26,250 it to happen, because it's not going to come out of the IB, 2411 02:28:26,250 --> 02:28:30,540 it's not going to come out of Spotify. It's something that 2412 02:28:30,540 --> 02:28:33,360 needs to be independent. It's something that needs to be 2413 02:28:34,140 --> 02:28:39,180 independent, because it goes against what you guys are just 2414 02:28:39,180 --> 02:28:42,870 talking about. It goes against the nature of the old way of 2415 02:28:42,930 --> 02:28:47,790 doing ads, we really do want to know, those kinds of things and 2416 02:28:47,850 --> 02:28:51,570 the main obstacle. I don't know, I think there's lots of 2417 02:28:51,570 --> 02:28:55,080 obstacles. I think there there is a whole segment that doesn't 2418 02:28:55,080 --> 02:28:59,850 want this. I think there's going to need to be a lot of buy in 2419 02:28:59,850 --> 02:29:03,780 and support from podcasters we'll get that but the people 2420 02:29:03,780 --> 02:29:06,360 who make the apps, that's that's going to be tough, don't you 2421 02:29:06,360 --> 02:29:06,780 think? 2422 02:29:08,250 --> 02:29:13,410 I do. I do. But then if you look at the stats, you have apple at 2423 02:29:13,410 --> 02:29:16,470 the top, which they've already shown that they're willing to 2424 02:29:16,470 --> 02:29:19,350 do, you know, listening, listening behavior. Yeah, 2425 02:29:19,350 --> 02:29:23,760 standard Google podcasts that they have no trouble tracking 2426 02:29:23,760 --> 02:29:24,510 people's behavior. 2427 02:29:24,810 --> 02:29:27,600 Alright, so let me just stop you this there's a difference the 2428 02:29:27,600 --> 02:29:30,930 apple listener stats do not go to a hosting company, they do 2429 02:29:30,930 --> 02:29:34,680 not go to a third party. They do they so choose upon and go to 2430 02:29:34,680 --> 02:29:39,750 the podcaster. So so I think that's where your magic is, is 2431 02:29:39,780 --> 02:29:43,350 the podcaster has this information. It's easily 2432 02:29:43,350 --> 02:29:47,730 verifiable, and I have thoughts about it. And you can deliver 2433 02:29:47,730 --> 02:29:51,390 that maybe in aggregate or maybe you check a box and say okay, 2434 02:29:51,390 --> 02:29:54,570 share this with my advertising agency share this with my 2435 02:29:54,570 --> 02:29:56,910 hosting company, etc. Hmm. 2436 02:29:57,449 --> 02:29:59,399 Is it buildable? Can we build this? 2437 02:29:59,430 --> 02:30:01,500 Yes. We've already we've already built it. 2438 02:30:02,970 --> 02:30:06,330 Because that that the the download the download stats, I 2439 02:30:06,330 --> 02:30:09,150 think what I think what you proposed with the with the good 2440 02:30:09,150 --> 02:30:12,510 and neck and that kind of thing would would improve accuracy of 2441 02:30:12,510 --> 02:30:16,380 downloads by a huge margin. But then at the end of the day, 2442 02:30:16,380 --> 02:30:19,440 you're still just left with more accurate versions of something 2443 02:30:19,440 --> 02:30:20,850 that isn't accurate to begin with, 2444 02:30:20,880 --> 02:30:22,440 which makes everybody less money. 2445 02:30:22,859 --> 02:30:25,379 And that did that isn't necessarily insightful, either 2446 02:30:26,039 --> 02:30:29,129 better, it's an improvement, but it's not the fix. 2447 02:30:29,910 --> 02:30:35,550 So I mean, I'm totally in his like, again, you know, we just 2448 02:30:35,550 --> 02:30:39,060 because we are free speech, anti censorship, types of folks 2449 02:30:39,060 --> 02:30:42,600 doesn't mean doesn't mean that that every you know, that I'm, 2450 02:30:44,280 --> 02:30:49,200 you know, going to be against every idea that could possibly 2451 02:30:49,200 --> 02:30:53,010 be used to do anything like this. I mean, this is not an ad, 2452 02:30:53,040 --> 02:30:56,130 this is not a free speech censorship issue. This is just a 2453 02:30:56,310 --> 02:31:00,210 trying to be more accurate issue in a way that doesn't, it's not 2454 02:31:00,210 --> 02:31:03,810 harmful to anyone. And and I think that's explainable, I 2455 02:31:03,810 --> 02:31:08,490 mean, and defensible to really do and, you know, they're all 2456 02:31:08,520 --> 02:31:11,490 they're always going to be, let's just say, overcast, I 2457 02:31:11,490 --> 02:31:15,180 mean, Marco is probably never going to implement such a thing 2458 02:31:15,180 --> 02:31:20,220 like this. And that's completely fine. But that, you know, 2459 02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:25,350 what, why I agree with you, I agree with you. And I mean, I 2460 02:31:25,350 --> 02:31:28,470 know Marco, right. You know, I, we haven't talked in a while, 2461 02:31:28,500 --> 02:31:31,320 but I mean, we did a show together for a long time. And, 2462 02:31:32,520 --> 02:31:36,960 and, and he's, you know, he and I have talked about these kinds 2463 02:31:36,960 --> 02:31:40,590 of things, why wouldn't he implement this? Why do you think 2464 02:31:40,860 --> 02:31:42,000 I'm not disagreeing with you? I'm 2465 02:31:42,000 --> 02:31:44,580 agreeing, but I'm saying Why do you think he would say he never 2466 02:31:44,580 --> 02:31:49,830 would Why? Just based on what he said in the past that he's been 2467 02:31:49,860 --> 02:31:54,330 asked millions of times for, for greater access to his to the 2468 02:31:54,330 --> 02:31:59,670 status of his listeners, and he is never gonna do it. And, but 2469 02:31:59,760 --> 02:32:05,490 there again, that was just a, you know, but but maybe that's 2470 02:32:05,520 --> 02:32:08,460 maybe the thing is just not the right thing. If a private 2471 02:32:08,460 --> 02:32:11,250 company comes to you and says, Hey, we want to pay you for 2472 02:32:11,250 --> 02:32:15,180 stats, that feels a little gross. But then if there was an 2473 02:32:15,180 --> 02:32:18,540 open standard that said, Okay, here is how we're going to 2474 02:32:18,540 --> 02:32:22,200 deliver listener behavior stats. And here's the privacy stuff 2475 02:32:22,200 --> 02:32:25,350 that we have baked into it. And here's the way everybody 2476 02:32:25,380 --> 02:32:29,580 everybody can see it is completely transparent. In that 2477 02:32:29,580 --> 02:32:34,920 situation, maybe somebody maybe a person like Marco or Xavier, 2478 02:32:35,250 --> 02:32:38,520 podcast addict, maybe in that scenario, they would say, well, 2479 02:32:39,420 --> 02:32:43,020 this, if this is helpful to the podcast industry overall, which 2480 02:32:43,020 --> 02:32:46,560 is a thing we love. And we love podcasting, and we love 2481 02:32:46,560 --> 02:32:50,040 podcasters. Maybe this is something that we can support. 2482 02:32:50,670 --> 02:32:53,910 If it's open and not shady behind backroom deals. 2483 02:32:54,240 --> 02:32:56,550 I think we should leave it at that, because we're going to 2484 02:32:56,550 --> 02:33:01,200 start going in circles. But I think the the, the opinions are 2485 02:33:01,200 --> 02:33:07,440 very clear that if we can improve this for the industry in 2486 02:33:07,440 --> 02:33:10,710 general, absolutely. I'm not going to drive it. But I think 2487 02:33:10,710 --> 02:33:15,030 there's a lot that can be done. But someone has to write it up, 2488 02:33:15,240 --> 02:33:18,060 someone's got to write it up, someone's got to get going put 2489 02:33:18,060 --> 02:33:21,060 some stuff on the GitHub, I don't know exactly what it is. 2490 02:33:23,490 --> 02:33:27,180 Because I think that these types, this type of information 2491 02:33:27,180 --> 02:33:29,310 is going to fall out of podcasting in the future. 2492 02:33:29,310 --> 02:33:33,240 Anyway, I think I think that the date is just going to be there. 2493 02:33:33,510 --> 02:33:36,870 But the more I hear this, and the more I've convinced myself, 2494 02:33:37,380 --> 02:33:40,110 that advertising is not necessarily the way to go for 2495 02:33:40,110 --> 02:33:45,810 the future. I I've even I'm even less bullish on the industry in 2496 02:33:45,810 --> 02:33:50,970 that regard, as a whole unless everybody starts to talk openly. 2497 02:33:51,330 --> 02:33:55,080 And it's, it's we haven't gotten there yet. And the people 2498 02:33:55,080 --> 02:33:57,420 missing from the equation are the listeners and the 2499 02:33:57,420 --> 02:34:00,240 advertisers. They're the two people that we're all in the 2500 02:34:00,240 --> 02:34:04,170 middle of trying to connect. So we need to ask them, 2501 02:34:04,710 --> 02:34:08,400 I think more and more accurate statistics in this regard. are 2502 02:34:08,970 --> 02:34:13,350 they're important for maybe a weird for maybe a weird two step 2503 02:34:13,350 --> 02:34:17,400 reason. And that is with looking at the things that are happening 2504 02:34:17,400 --> 02:34:21,510 like wondery wondery being bought for 300 million megaphone 2505 02:34:21,510 --> 02:34:24,660 being bought for 200 something million all these humongous What 2506 02:34:24,660 --> 02:34:27,570 are essentially venture capital exit strategy plays within the 2507 02:34:27,570 --> 02:34:33,810 podcasting space. That is all driven by by phony statistics, 2508 02:34:33,840 --> 02:34:38,250 phony numbers. Yeah. And and that that process of VC money 2509 02:34:38,250 --> 02:34:42,660 coming in, pop, you know, popping a bunch of shows out and 2510 02:34:42,660 --> 02:34:45,150 then getting sold for hundreds of millions of exit strategy 2511 02:34:45,300 --> 02:34:48,330 that is detrimental to podcasting as a whole. Thank you 2512 02:34:48,330 --> 02:34:48,600 very 2513 02:34:48,600 --> 02:34:49,320 much. You're right. 2514 02:34:49,350 --> 02:34:50,070 I believe that 2515 02:34:50,190 --> 02:34:52,770 you're right, you're right. Absolutely right. 2516 02:34:53,790 --> 02:34:56,340 Because it changed. It changes the nature of what podcasting 2517 02:34:56,340 --> 02:35:00,600 is. I mean, look at Sirius XM, they announced Reno The last 2518 02:35:00,600 --> 02:35:02,310 couple of days that they're going to start doing a bunch of 2519 02:35:02,310 --> 02:35:05,970 podcasts, quote, unquote, they're not podcast, they're on 2520 02:35:05,970 --> 02:35:11,790 their app. That's not a podcast. And I know I keep harping on 2521 02:35:11,790 --> 02:35:13,860 this. And I sound like a broken record. And some people, some 2522 02:35:13,860 --> 02:35:18,990 people don't agree with me. But that that's just a show. Why is 2523 02:35:18,990 --> 02:35:23,850 it but the name podcast is being dumped is being used up to show 2524 02:35:23,850 --> 02:35:24,120 it 2525 02:35:24,120 --> 02:35:27,090 excited about a podcast, if it's called a podcast, and they that 2526 02:35:27,090 --> 02:35:29,730 was a podcast, I want to get like that. The other day I saw 2527 02:35:29,730 --> 02:35:33,510 somebody was talking about something that was it. I don't 2528 02:35:33,510 --> 02:35:36,600 even remember where it was. But it had some celebrity actor type 2529 02:35:36,600 --> 02:35:39,870 people in it. And they're like, listen to this amazing 2530 02:35:39,870 --> 02:35:43,080 fictionalized, you know, podcast, it's a story and the 2531 02:35:43,080 --> 02:35:46,080 person retweeted it and said, Yeah, they've just invented the 2532 02:35:46,080 --> 02:35:50,160 radio play. I mean, it's, it's, it's like everything that's been 2533 02:35:50,160 --> 02:35:52,620 done before you just call it a podcast now. And suddenly, 2534 02:35:52,620 --> 02:35:55,800 there's interest in it. And that's why that's the reason is, 2535 02:35:55,800 --> 02:36:00,060 yes. It's it calling it a podcast makes Sirius XM is doing 2536 02:36:00,060 --> 02:36:01,320 podcast. Wow, that's 2537 02:36:01,320 --> 02:36:01,950 amazing. We 2538 02:36:01,950 --> 02:36:04,380 got to, you know, we got to sign up for that thing 2539 02:36:04,380 --> 02:36:05,280 they've been doing right, I'm 2540 02:36:05,280 --> 02:36:08,160 bored. I'm sorry, I can't, I can't do this anymore. I 2541 02:36:08,160 --> 02:36:08,610 can't, 2542 02:36:08,940 --> 02:36:13,650 I am fucking anxious, I want to move forward, things are not 2543 02:36:13,650 --> 02:36:17,400 going fast enough for me, I will do everything we can to help you 2544 02:36:17,400 --> 02:36:21,870 with this, Dan. But I'm going to focus more I'd like the I would 2545 02:36:21,870 --> 02:36:26,220 like to have listener behavior for myself for my end, and I 2546 02:36:26,220 --> 02:36:28,830 want my listeners to know that I'm looking at when they listen 2547 02:36:28,830 --> 02:36:30,870 to me, and I don't need to know them individually. But I'd like 2548 02:36:30,870 --> 02:36:34,620 to know, on a trend. And I think that's valuable, it's valuable 2549 02:36:34,620 --> 02:36:36,600 to me, if it's valuable to me, it's going to be valuable to 2550 02:36:36,600 --> 02:36:42,300 somebody else. And we'll do that. But the last thing I want 2551 02:36:42,300 --> 02:36:45,750 and this is my cautionary warning. I don't want statistics 2552 02:36:45,750 --> 02:36:49,350 talk all day on podcast index dot social, because that's just 2553 02:36:49,350 --> 02:36:52,350 going to ruin all the momentum we have. It's it is backward 2554 02:36:52,350 --> 02:36:52,800 looking. 2555 02:36:54,450 --> 02:36:56,190 Bird fare, 2556 02:36:56,340 --> 02:36:59,280 and and i and i love your skills. And I love your 2557 02:36:59,280 --> 02:37:03,450 enthusiasm. And I want you in I want you in as much as possible. 2558 02:37:05,190 --> 02:37:08,820 And this goes for all the hosting companies. But I know 2559 02:37:08,820 --> 02:37:11,400 you're selling right now it's hard you're selling statistics 2560 02:37:11,400 --> 02:37:15,210 to your clients. Because they have been told this the story 2561 02:37:15,210 --> 02:37:18,720 that dog The more I get, right The more I can make I'm going to 2562 02:37:18,720 --> 02:37:23,220 be Joe Rogan. You know there's a there's a number of hosting 2563 02:37:23,220 --> 02:37:26,370 companies who use it who are in the advertising business, that's 2564 02:37:26,370 --> 02:37:27,780 all fine. But 2565 02:37:28,800 --> 02:37:32,280 why here I hear hostess is saying all the time that it's 2566 02:37:32,280 --> 02:37:35,910 just such a hard conversation to have with with their customers 2567 02:37:35,910 --> 02:37:38,670 where their customers get to a certain to the customer just 2568 02:37:38,670 --> 02:37:41,160 chomping at the bit on the stats, stats, I want to sell 2569 02:37:41,160 --> 02:37:42,300 ads, I need to get money. 2570 02:37:43,380 --> 02:37:46,230 They do. No one says I want to sell ads, they want to make 2571 02:37:46,230 --> 02:37:49,830 money. And this. This is my mission. This is an excellent, 2572 02:37:49,830 --> 02:37:52,950 excellent point. The podcast index mission is to make you 2573 02:37:52,950 --> 02:38:01,380 money. And you know if we can help the legacy, sure. But I 2574 02:38:01,380 --> 02:38:05,760 don't want to become the RSS industry chat group over this. 2575 02:38:07,380 --> 02:38:14,760 Do you know what I mean? I don't great. Sounds great. All right, 2576 02:38:14,760 --> 02:38:14,970 Dan, 2577 02:38:14,970 --> 02:38:17,370 what else do you have planned for? 2021 my friend. 2578 02:38:17,850 --> 02:38:20,040 This is it. Just this one thing? This is one I'm gonna be 2579 02:38:20,040 --> 02:38:23,910 focusing on 100 No. There's there's a lot of there's a lot 2580 02:38:23,910 --> 02:38:26,910 of stuff a lot of stuff happening. You know, but you'll 2581 02:38:26,910 --> 02:38:29,730 you guys, maybe you'll have me back and I can talk about of 2582 02:38:29,730 --> 02:38:29,970 course 2583 02:38:29,970 --> 02:38:31,470 we're gonna have you back. Yeah. 2584 02:38:31,470 --> 02:38:34,830 How many new shows how many new shows you started in? 2010? 2585 02:38:34,830 --> 02:38:35,280 Really? 2586 02:38:35,550 --> 02:38:37,020 The 60 by 60 network? 2587 02:38:39,840 --> 02:38:41,970 Ooh, two. Wow. 2588 02:38:42,630 --> 02:38:47,850 Did you did you launch the listen to Dan. Read a book while 2589 02:38:47,850 --> 02:38:48,270 you sleep? 2590 02:38:48,900 --> 02:38:50,970 recording. I'm recording the books. I'm recording the books 2591 02:38:50,970 --> 02:38:53,070 right now to do it because I want to have them I want to come 2592 02:38:53,070 --> 02:38:56,850 out of the gate really strong some I'm almost done. recording. 2593 02:38:56,880 --> 02:38:59,550 But that's coming this thank you for asking. Okay, yeah, 2594 02:38:59,550 --> 02:39:03,690 I'm looking forward to that one that's also want a podcast of 2595 02:39:03,690 --> 02:39:05,280 only your monster truck announcements. 2596 02:39:05,670 --> 02:39:07,140 Oh, you like that? 2597 02:39:07,950 --> 02:39:09,330 We need one for this show. We 2598 02:39:09,330 --> 02:39:12,330 need you won't let me do one. Did you hear it out? And I send 2599 02:39:12,330 --> 02:39:12,810 it to you. 2600 02:39:13,350 --> 02:39:14,250 Oh, did 2601 02:39:14,250 --> 02:39:16,710 you send it send it to him? Then it's Marvel. Oh, 2602 02:39:16,740 --> 02:39:19,290 I'll send it to him in a second. 2603 02:39:19,950 --> 02:39:20,700 Yeah, it's it? 2604 02:39:20,730 --> 02:39:23,970 I do. I do kind of crazy voice stuff. And I want to do it. Let 2605 02:39:23,970 --> 02:39:26,190 me do the intro for the show with that. Well, yeah, I'll send 2606 02:39:26,190 --> 02:39:29,070 it to you, Adam, if you approve of it. Give me a script. And 2607 02:39:29,430 --> 02:39:29,880 you're done. 2608 02:39:29,880 --> 02:39:32,580 Dude, we'll play anything. We have no production on this show. 2609 02:39:34,140 --> 02:39:38,400 I'm still using Martin's fiber Ender five render center. 2610 02:39:38,699 --> 02:39:40,979 Yeah, I will. I will 2611 02:39:40,980 --> 02:39:43,290 say I will just tell me what to say. And I'll say I'll send you 2612 02:39:43,290 --> 02:39:43,860 a sample 2613 02:39:43,890 --> 02:39:48,630 and I really appreciate you being open and and, and you 2614 02:39:48,630 --> 02:39:52,290 know, trying to push everything forward as well. It's it's very 2615 02:39:52,290 --> 02:39:54,360 much appreciated. Absolutely. I'm 2616 02:39:54,360 --> 02:39:56,520 thanks for having me on. And thanks for letting me be 2617 02:39:56,520 --> 02:40:00,930 involved. I love what you guys do here and I'm As much as 2618 02:40:00,930 --> 02:40:02,910 possible for me to support it, I want to do it. 2619 02:40:03,570 --> 02:40:04,080 Awesome. 2620 02:40:04,350 --> 02:40:10,860 And Benjamin fireside.fm and have a great 2021. Man we'll be 2621 02:40:10,890 --> 02:40:14,310 we'll be talking to you on podcast index dot social and 2622 02:40:14,370 --> 02:40:17,070 definitely we'll have you back on we'll get an update and who 2623 02:40:17,070 --> 02:40:20,790 knows what'll be going on. I feel good about this year. guys. 2624 02:40:20,790 --> 02:40:21,180 Thank 2625 02:40:21,180 --> 02:40:22,830 you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you 2626 02:40:22,890 --> 02:40:26,760 are my brother David. Dave, we'll see you. Friday. 2627 02:40:27,210 --> 02:40:30,510 Yeah, yeah, nothing, nothing. The board. Yeah. Perfect. 2628 02:40:31,920 --> 02:40:36,090 podcasting. 2.0 and we'll be back next week as we move 2629 02:40:36,090 --> 02:40:38,100 podcasting into the next phase. 2630 02:40:54,840 --> 02:41:00,360 been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit podcast, Zach. org for 2631 02:41:00,360 --> 02:41:01,770 more information.