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Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for
December 1 2023, episode 157

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Five Hello everybody, welcome to
podcasting 2.0 Your weekly board

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meeting everything that's going
on in podcasting. We are the

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current state of the art. This
is the only boardroom that skips

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the ads for you automatically.
Yes, everything happening in

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podcast index.org with a
namespace and podcast index dot

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social. I'm Adam curry here the
heart of the Texas Hill Country

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out in Alabama, the man who can
roll your pod smoother and

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flatter than anyone say hello to
my friend on the other end.

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Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave
Jones. I'm rolling. We're

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rolling in pod. Our feed now has
a pod roll.

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Dave Jones: Oh, you put one in?
Well, I

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Adam Curry: Stephen B added it
to sovereign feeds. And I just

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added it and I need to ask you
if because I put in of course, I

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put in our prep shows which is
new media show and podcast

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weekly review. I put in no way
no agenda since you know it's a

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big promoter of the podcasting
tomorrow. Do you have any,

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anything you'd like on the pod
roll?

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Dave Jones: Gosh, I have lots of
things I would like on the I

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Adam Curry: mean, I can put in a
million it just hit Add and keep

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and you know what's cool about
it. You hit Add and it looks up

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in the end. I just love these
little things. It looks up in

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the index. Just type in the
podcast name it shows up you

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click Done. You don't have to do
anything with RSS feeds. You

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just look it up. Click on it
done.

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Dave Jones: It's beautiful.
Well, let me look let me go

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inspect the said pod roll and
see what see what you got in

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there. You got like

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Adam Curry: looking at our feed.
Yeah, we're gonna feed that

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should be in the feed. I put it
in the feed.

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Dave Jones: Sorry, I just saw
that. I like looking in the feed

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every now and then because it's
entertaining. Because you do

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things in here that I don't know
about. Like what did I do? Like?

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Well, you did you have these
blocks in here. Oh block. Apple

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block Spotify block Amazon.

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Adam Curry: Yeah. How well did
that work as you can tell, but

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Apple just took our feet anyway.
That really works. They don't

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Dave Jones: even honor their own
block tag. So why would they

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honor anybody? Yes, true. I
don't see the pod roll where?

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Oh, wait.

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Adam Curry: Thanks, Steven. B.
You are You are the man you are

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the master you are the man I
love you

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Dave Jones: bro knows yet. Yeah,
he only got three and then we

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need to base that up. Yeah,

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Adam Curry: I mean, he didn't
eat beef. Beef. Shake that up.

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Dave Jones: I mean, like, at
least me know. What's the music

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and music show? Like?

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Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, this
grandpa hadn't even hadn't even

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considered that. I mean, I could
put all my shows in there but I

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put three in I figured you might
have one but if you want me to

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add Bookstagram ball Okay, since
you twist my arm

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Dave Jones: yet, but this your
grandma wants to get started. Go

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to pod roll.

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Adam Curry: Oh, second. Oh, that
show in front needs to go to are

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you doing

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Dave Jones: this live? Are you
adding this line? He's sticking

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it in LA Can I

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Adam Curry: do that? Baby. I'm
sticking it in live. Although

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that's dangerous. Something just
happened here. Which is not

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good. I don't know. Yeah. Come
on, man. Come on. Let me do it.

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sink in the feed sink in the
feed show info pod roll. There

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it is three, add podcast, boom.
Booster. Booster. We're gonna

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send

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Dave Jones: her another it's
gonna web hook it and you're

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gonna send another live to
everybody, which is fine,

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because you just get is gonna be
like, everyone's gonna get

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double notified. Okay, so really
seriously, you need to listen to

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this. Okay, that

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Adam Curry: double notification
everybody.

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Dave Jones: Let me refresh in
there, that there. That's what a

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beautiful

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Adam Curry: system.

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Dave Jones: Update a feed and it
actually updated. Yes.

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Adam Curry: I want to get I want
to thank the company ADIA for

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making all podcasts now value
for value. I think that's

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fantastic. Great job.

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Dave Jones: I have no idea what
you're talking about, oh,

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Adam Curry: audio is an app that
uses AI. And when you subscribe

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to a podcast it it downloads the
episode, then it uses AI to look

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for the ads and removes them for
you. Which is all this which,

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which makes every single podcast
value for value. Because if you

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come to the party guess I mean
if you if you I mean if you want

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to support the podcast, you
either don't use the audio app

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and listen to the ads or you
don't care and you just haven't

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blocked it out. I mean, it's
value for value. It's the same

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thing.

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Dave Jones: It is I didn't know
what the effort didn't realize

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what the name of this thing was.
But that's

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Adam Curry: not the name of the
app the the name But the app is

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something else. I think I
actually got the app that works

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as advertised. And so a couple
things about this. First of what

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is the name of this app? What
isn't? I

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Dave Jones: mean, wait, you did
my understanding was they did

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not. They're not doing this on
podcast yet. They're only there

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are they're only doing it on
like radio.

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Adam Curry: Yes. You've worked
on the radio stuff. Correct.

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Okay. All right. Well, that was
your test. That was my test.

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Well, there's a couple things
with this app. So just briefly

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on this app, which now I can't
read, is it called Audio

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missing? Look at my fader, I
thought it was called faders. In

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a fader. Yeah. Maybe fade with a
DI D, our fader. So first, I

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just want to say they have music
shows in there. I'd like to know

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how you do that. fader? How are
you playing licensed music in

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shows on your app? I'd like to
know that right off the bat.

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Unknown: I shows like these

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Adam Curry: are they have they
have they could have? Well, they

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have something called Music
casts. Earlier name the thought

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long and hard about it. Yeah,
they have music casts. And they

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have DJs plans, licensed music.
I would love to know how they do

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that. They got 90s. They got all
kinds of stuff. So I'd really

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like to know how you're paying
for the rights on that. But if

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there's anything wrong with this
company, and I'm this app is

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that I don't understand how
they're doing. I'd like to know

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that. I completely adore the
fact that they have proven that

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you cannot monetize the network.
This and this is no different. I

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have three apps here. Regular
good old fashioned podcast apps,

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who allowed me to set a number
of minutes to skip at the

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beginning of each podcast. It's
this is not new. Just the fact

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that it's you know, I guess AI
is new.

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Dave Jones: What do I hear?
Sorry, that's that was tapped

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on. Evidently, there's they're
playing ice baby right now.

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Adam Curry: I don't know how
they do that. Yes.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, good. But this
this

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Adam Curry: is this is a very
important development, because

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it shows that the end is here.
There's been this unwritten

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agreement which by the way, all
the time by I have to jump on

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Twitter, and defend podcast
apps. Sam Sethi says I've set

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the time to 6:25am. local time.
No, I haven't.

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Dave Jones: In sovereignty,

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Adam Curry: I have I said it
with a live Yeah, I said it

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properly. She talking about is

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Dave Jones: 12. One 625. Let me
double check. 000 time, it's 625

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UTC is what it said to her and
yeah,

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Adam Curry: so isn't that
correct? Yeah. Okay. Anyway.

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This was inevitable. It's just,
um, I had this conversation I

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was being interviewed this
morning, about advertising

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itself. The advertising is a
race to the bottom, always on

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the internet, just looking
banner ads, look at every other

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CPM. Because ultimately, there's
no scarcity. There's no

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limitation on how many ads can
run. So it's always going to run

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down to the lowest possible
price. Always. And, and, you

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know, it's like the all the
conversations now. Well, we all

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know, we kind of skipped over
him. So these guys just making

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it easy. Yes. Yes, that's right.
That's right. This is for ad

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inserts. You know, I think if
you do something in the show,

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we're sponsored by that. That
seems to be the only thing that

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will work. And I've always
thought that was a good idea.

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But I built a whole company
trying to do that and still

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couldn't make it work.

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Dave Jones: If you can insert
something somebody else can

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uninstall can can extract. Yeah,
exactly. What's the opposite of

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insert? decirte somebody else
can rip that out. Insert.

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Retract? Retract. Yeah, you can
withdraw. Yes. That's so I had

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an interesting advertising. Sort
of week this week. Oh. Well, I

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started. Here's a general
problem I'm facing is that I've

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got so many podcasts. I can't
listen to them all.

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Adam Curry: I mean, I'm here
here. Yeah.

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Dave Jones: I got 20 hours of
podcast dropping in my play in

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my podcast app a week and of
what's out, maybe get out of

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control. It's out of control. We
are absolutely responsible for

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you know, with these two hour
shows that we do weird when we

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are aggressive.

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Adam Curry: Good work. Good
work, good work.

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Dave Jones: But like I've got so
much I can't listen to it. So

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I've been so behind on like pod,
pod news weekly review and all

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these like, I'm not just so far
behind. So I'm like, Okay, I'm

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gonna catch up. And, and I was
listening to last week's show of

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pod news weekly review. And they
interviewed Lisa Jacobs from,

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like, add results or something
like that. I get all these names

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mixed up. Yeah. Sounds right.
Okay, so I just want I just want

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to start this by saying this is
not an attack on Lisa at all.

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I'm sure she's a she's a fine
lady, but the advertising agency

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people. And this also includes
Spotify. In a lady interviewed

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on the most recent,

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Adam Curry: you mentioned when
she talks like this.

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Dave Jones: No, no, no, that's
actually not it. Oh, get a

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decent microphone. Oh, my gosh.
The audio is

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Adam Curry: that yes, there's
that.

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Dave Jones: So you're you are
the brand. You are the

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representative of an advertising
agency that's focused on

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podcasting. And you sound like
you're in can? Yeah, yes. You

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sound horrible. Like, I don't
understand how they let that

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out. Microphones are not
expensive. You should be handed

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a decent microphone and audio
interface is the day that you

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sign up for this job.

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Adam Curry: A pod my pod mic is
all you need. It's got the

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processing you can stick your
headphones and good to go. It's

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Dave Jones: perfect. The number
of people I hear from

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advertising agencies and I
listen to things like media

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roundtable which is Oxford road
advertising agency now, they all

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sound horrible. They sound like
their own the built in MacBook

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Air, Mike, it's it's so bad.
Well, we've

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Adam Curry: had guests on this
show where we had to go like

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what's wrong with you? Yeah,
media Roundtable. I'm not so

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sure. Yeah. What's what really
helped me? Don't just just don't

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do it. No, no, no, no, what
helped me I got to subscribe to

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the media roundtable. I just I
just started using a different

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app. I just, I just started
using podcast guru and started

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from from scratch. It's like,
what do I really need? What do I

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bring? Because I've got I mean,
I have to. I mean, I think I've

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turned the downloads off on pod
verse and fountain. I also will

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have I think I've all on loaded
pretty much except for cast

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thematic because I'm graphing
OS, but have everything else.

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And

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Dave Jones: you did the dust off
and nuke it from orbit strategy.

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Adam Curry: Is that what that is
dust off and nuke it? Well,

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that's a reference

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Dave Jones: to aliens, the movie
Aliens. Use nuke your whole

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playlist and start over? Well,

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Adam Curry: so obviously I have
my I have backups with my OPML

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and my you know, I can export
the OPML. But I just look I look

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deep inside my soul and said,
What do I want to listen to? Oh,

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it's Tuesday. That means my
hatless in which I would have to

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say for some odd reason the
pivot podcast is it's religious

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for me. I never missed the visit
pop pivot podcast. I mean, I

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might drop out if the guests
they have at the end is not

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interesting, but that happens so
rarely. And it's because I

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disagree with pretty much
everything they say that it's

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good for my soul. I mean, I
respect that I respect them. I

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don't like him. I don't like
what they say. I disagree, but I

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respect him. And and they have
good mics. So there's that. And

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then the new media show I liked
the new media show a lot of

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always disappointed that I'm
either not getting the pod ping

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or no sound. Speaking of sound,
I mean, there's been so many

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problems with the sound. So
usually that's a Wednesday and

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around noon or one o'clock or
something goes off. I'm always

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delighted. Then I'll work out to
that.

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Dave Jones: What was your work?
Are you spinning you still spin?

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No, no, no, I'm

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Adam Curry: free weights baby.
Oh, you pumping, pumping pumping

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iron? Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, you
know that none of my clothes fit

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me anymore. Because you're too
big or too small. No, my chest

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expanded.

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Dave Jones: Because you ripped.

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Adam Curry: I'm far from rips
but also I stopped smoking over

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exactly a year ago. Pretty much
so. But but it's it's not that

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I'm fat. It's just the working
out. I mean, I knew what

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happened. I see. My my my goal
is the if Joe Rogan invited me

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on again. I want to walk in I
want to go curry What happened

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to you?

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Dave Jones: Give me your arm
wrestling?

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Adam Curry: I don't think so.

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Dave Jones: You could stand
easily to put on another 20

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pounds

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Adam Curry: that No, no, no, not
you. You haven't seen me. I

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Dave Jones: mean, I mean from
the time I lost

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Adam Curry: 205 Yeah, but you're
six five When I was 189, so I

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put on a t stand for six. Yeah,
it was anyway, every morning

249
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literally religiously because I
walked the dog I say my morning

250
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prayers. And then on the way
back, I listened to pod News

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Daily. That's it's perfect
length. It's perfect in so many

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ways. And I can also like the
practice forgiveness

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Dave Jones: base Ireland prayer,

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Adam Curry: pretty much. Of
course, pod news weekly review,

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sometimes we'll come in late
Thursday, which I did. But I

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always try to listen to that.
And I think that's pretty much

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it me and then I have some other
sporadic acts. But honestly,

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there's there's not much time
left for other things. You know,

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I look forward to a drive into
Austin, you know, from time to

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time because like, oh yeah, I
can listen to a couple of

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things. And there is there is
one type of podcast that can

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listen to while I'm working and
that's music podcast, so I'll

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listen to the sidestream podcast
or listen to homegrown hits.

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I'll listen to it's a mood to
mood you know listen to stuff

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like that once in a while I put
on lightning thrashes it's not

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really my jam, but you know, I
like to listen up beats is hello

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I love salty crayon up beats is
my favorite it's like the old

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pirate radio days you know he's
like literally like all right, I

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got another song here this is
brand new from dorsals pause for

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like three seconds I love it
isn't needed the needle needle

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on the record. I love that it
makes I Tina came up I was

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cooking on the on the grill
outside he says you're laughing

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you're playing air guitar I'm
listening to upbeats I buy low

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sell to crayon so much. I know
him personally it was a great

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guy. And we because it just all
this like it takes a while for

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the song to start. That's always
a good song and I play air

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guitar and I wait for him to
come back on. It's just it gives

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me so much joy and I can listen
to those anywhere while I'm

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working even so I love doing
that. And of course LM beats

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just for just to listen to the
top 100 habit to have a go

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random I love that

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Dave Jones: is the you know I'm
I'm addicted. I'm addicted to

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club random with Bill Maher. I
mean, I never miss an episode

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now. Oh, wow. That's not a hate.
Listen. That's because because

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he's got he's got interesting

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Adam Curry: guests for sure.
Yeah. And he's a he's a pretty,

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Dave Jones: I mean, he has his
moments but he's pretty he tries

288
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to play it down the middle as
much as he can he'll swerve you

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know, but of course, like we all

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Adam Curry: I'm always surprised
by some how uneducated he is on

291
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:03,630
certain things like Bill Maher,
did you not know that?

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Dave Jones: That is so true. He
did say something the other day

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he said he was like Whoa, did
that. Did you not know this?

294
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Because he because he knows a
lot. And then like how did how

295
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did you not have this? This
whole has you have this hole in

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your knowledge? Yeah, but he had
he had Margaret show. Do you

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00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:23,130
know comedian? Yeah. So you had
her on as a guest.

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Adam Curry: A couple of EPS
where she been? I haven't seen

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her in a long time.

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Dave Jones: I don't really know.
Evidently she's like, works all

301
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the time. They work yeah. But
um, he had her on. And I thought

302
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I knew who she was. But I
actually I made it through the

303
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whole episode. The the first
part of the episode is kind of

304
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not my, how long are these
things? A couple hours tasteful?

305
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:51,480
No, they're not. They're usually
like an hour and a half. 15

306
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,690
Adam Curry: once a week or
multiple times a week? Couple of

307
00:18:54,690 --> 00:18:55,500
times a week. Oh,

308
00:18:55,950 --> 00:18:59,460
Dave Jones: yeah. And but he
like he had to take Candace

309
00:18:59,460 --> 00:19:02,640
Owens on that was a fun one
because they they battled and

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00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,970
then they would battle again.
I'll bet ya had a big debate

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00:19:05,970 --> 00:19:06,930
about the moon landing. It

312
00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:10,200
Adam Curry: was pretty funny.
Now I gotta go listen to it. Oh,

313
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,110
you hadn't heard it. I was
testing. That's fantastic. She

314
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:15,540
believer in

315
00:19:15,570 --> 00:19:18,480
Dave Jones: I don't know what
she really would say she was

316
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:23,040
kind of him hauling around. She
wouldn't commit. But, so he had

317
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,700
Margaret's show on and I was
like, you know, I think I think

318
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:31,320
I know who this is. And so I
started looking up. Jump on

319
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,030
YouTube. And I look up Margaret
Cho. And I was like, Huh, okay,

320
00:19:36,030 --> 00:19:39,270
well, what is I haven't I don't
know that I've ever seen her

321
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:42,570
stand up. So I've tried a couple
of different versions. And I'll

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00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:49,830
say like Margaret Cho, stand up.
And I hit that and it comes back

323
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,490
with of course it's got the
shorts and all that stuff which

324
00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:59,310
always skipped Yeah, roll down.
PBR. You're on PBR.

325
00:19:59,340 --> 00:20:03,810
Adam Curry: This is Yeah, this
is a Pabst Blue Ribbon. acolytes

326
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:06,360
light. That's right.

327
00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:11,969
Dave Jones: So she scroll down
and I'm like, I'm like, Oh, this

328
00:20:11,969 --> 00:20:19,049
is weird. And there's like some,
some pretty sketchy thumbnails

329
00:20:19,049 --> 00:20:23,969
of some sick stuff on here on
YouTube on YouTube with me

330
00:20:23,969 --> 00:20:27,749
looking at Margaret Cho stand
up, keeps rolling.

331
00:20:27,780 --> 00:20:30,600
Adam Curry: It turns out it's a
porn move. It's like a position

332
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,130
doing a Barbie Margaret show.
Hey, man, I'm doing a Margaret

333
00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:38,220
Cho stand up. Oh, wow. That's a
tough one. That's

334
00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:40,380
Dave Jones: a version of the
Margaret Cho. Yeah, the standard

335
00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:47,670
variant. Yeah. So like, and then
before I scroll down a little

336
00:20:47,670 --> 00:20:53,280
further, and dude, I'm telling
you, it went off the rails. It

337
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:59,580
was full on. Like, I had to
close the browser fast because I

338
00:20:59,580 --> 00:21:03,360
was afraid that that like, I was
gonna get a knock on the door.

339
00:21:03,570 --> 00:21:10,200
Wow, it was it was shocking. The
type of porn is coming

340
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,990
Adam Curry: from a guy who rips
a chair roosters head off with

341
00:21:12,990 --> 00:21:16,470
his bare hands. So it was Shari
Yeah. Yeah,

342
00:21:16,530 --> 00:21:20,850
Dave Jones: it was scary. And I
was it. I figured that all that

343
00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:23,610
kind of stuff makes it onto
these platforms at some point.

344
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,830
Adam Curry: Oh, no, it's it's in
the algos. Dude, it was

345
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:33,090
Dave Jones: disgusting. And I
mean, like, I don't know if this

346
00:21:33,090 --> 00:21:36,060
was pedo. I don't know what this
was. But I was like, I was like,

347
00:21:36,090 --> 00:21:41,280
Oh my god. So in there's
advertising against this?

348
00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:45,870
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. I had this
same experience with with tick

349
00:21:45,870 --> 00:21:50,250
tock, which I don't have the
app. But I installed the app,

350
00:21:50,250 --> 00:21:52,950
because apparently I was going
viral for something. I was like,

351
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:57,510
Okay, I'll go take a look. And I
opened the app right away, I get

352
00:21:57,510 --> 00:22:02,280
one of those. Right away. First
thing first install, boom. And

353
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,910
I'm like, nope, delete. I'm
done. I'm good. Nope, no, thank

354
00:22:05,910 --> 00:22:09,720
you. Unbelievable. And then we
wonder what's wrong with our

355
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,880
young men in the world. And

356
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,650
Dave Jones: so this made me I
had seen this, this article

357
00:22:16,650 --> 00:22:20,610
headline earlier. So I went back
and looked, and it was the I

358
00:22:20,610 --> 00:22:25,050
think I sent it to you. Maybe it
was the article about? Yeah, no,

359
00:22:25,050 --> 00:22:30,510
I did, um, about the Google
advertising network, the search

360
00:22:30,510 --> 00:22:36,750
partner network, and how they
monetize. They put ads against

361
00:22:36,870 --> 00:22:40,500
all this horrible content. Yes,
yeah. Now, of course, they they

362
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:44,010
go political and put Breitbart
in their analysis. But if you

363
00:22:44,010 --> 00:22:48,900
get past that part and actually
dig into that report, it is like

364
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:56,430
Google is advertising against
every type of dis. Oh, tasteful

365
00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:00,570
porn, drugs, everything you can
think of?

366
00:23:00,690 --> 00:23:03,180
Adam Curry: That was from AD
analytics. That's what that was

367
00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:05,100
from. Yes. Yeah. That is.

368
00:23:06,810 --> 00:23:10,500
Dave Jones: It's a very long
report. But it is worth going

369
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:15,840
through because he sees he goes
step by step. And shows you

370
00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:23,490
examples of like, the F, like,
it'll have a, a website for

371
00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:27,810
like, you know, who knows, like
ISIS. And there will be an FBI.

372
00:23:29,250 --> 00:23:32,520
ad for a job opening right there
on the ISIS page is your

373
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:33,090
artificial

374
00:23:33,090 --> 00:23:36,150
Adam Curry: intelligence right
there makes no sense. Or

375
00:23:36,150 --> 00:23:39,330
Dave Jones: it'll be some like,
hardcore porn thing. And

376
00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:41,940
there'll be an ad, you know,
right there for like, you know,

377
00:23:42,060 --> 00:23:47,970
some TV show. He's like, so that
this was the experience I had

378
00:23:47,970 --> 00:23:53,190
with advertising this week, I
was like you, this is the idea.

379
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,640
It rang a bell with me when you
said what you said earlier?

380
00:23:57,330 --> 00:24:03,600
About the like, the inventory,
like draft to zero. I wonder if

381
00:24:04,620 --> 00:24:10,320
some of this brand safety stuff
is an attempt to artificially

382
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,880
artificially reduce at ad space
to keep the CPMs from going? Oh,

383
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,980
Adam Curry: that's a good that's
a very good point. It's still

384
00:24:19,980 --> 00:24:24,690
not true. Because because you
can still, you know, how, how

385
00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:28,590
many ads do you want? You know,
how much the how much inventory

386
00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:31,710
Do you want? We just create more
it'd be for every podcast

387
00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:34,890
download, you download, you stop
and we started could have a

388
00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:41,010
different ad. I mean, it's, it's
endless, but it will it will. It

389
00:24:41,010 --> 00:24:44,880
will limit it to some degree.
Yes. That's an interesting

390
00:24:44,910 --> 00:24:49,830
angle. I don't even know if, if
that's purposeful.

391
00:24:50,550 --> 00:24:53,310
Dave Jones: Because you could
say if you looked at at all the

392
00:24:53,310 --> 00:24:59,100
digital ad space as a pie, and
you say, Okay, well, we want the

393
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:02,550
bigger we have to preserve our
section of pie or enlarge it

394
00:25:02,550 --> 00:25:06,330
somehow. We need to the only way
to do it is to reduce the

395
00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:11,490
inventories do reduce the ad
space. And what we definitely

396
00:25:11,490 --> 00:25:15,630
want to get a twofer. Yeah. By
taking it away from our

397
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:19,350
political competition or
whatever that is. Yeah. But it

398
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:23,460
seems just in general, but of
course brand safety doesn't. It

399
00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:24,960
doesn't actually that is so

400
00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:28,020
Adam Curry: interesting. You
bring that up, because just this

401
00:25:28,020 --> 00:25:32,100
afternoon, I was listening to my
hatless and, and Professor Scott

402
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:37,170
Galloway, professor in
marketing. He he said that, the

403
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,640
the end here's the sick thing
about this Elan situation, is

404
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,960
that because of all these
advertisers pull out, a smaller

405
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,950
advertiser will get a much
larger return on investment for

406
00:25:49,950 --> 00:25:53,970
the time being, because there's
just because there's much less

407
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,130
ad dollars competing for the
space.

408
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,910
Dave Jones: No, there you go.
That's, that's almost

409
00:25:59,910 --> 00:26:02,370
confirmation that yes, at least
something to do. And

410
00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:06,240
Adam Curry: I just don't know if
it's purposeful. I know.

411
00:26:07,410 --> 00:26:08,910
Dave Jones: It may be one of
those things where it wasn't

412
00:26:08,910 --> 00:26:12,180
purposeful at the beginning, but
then they see a bump every time

413
00:26:12,180 --> 00:26:13,080
and they keep doing it.

414
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,820
Adam Curry: Like yeah, yeah.
That's very, that's an

415
00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:23,970
interesting angle. So you're
giving them a lot of credit? I

416
00:26:23,970 --> 00:26:28,710
Dave Jones: am. The brand safety
thing is so obviously, a red

417
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:34,410
herring. Even case in point is
this. This on the media episode

418
00:26:34,410 --> 00:26:36,360
that mean you texted about the
other day? Oh, my

419
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,780
Adam Curry: goodness, I got
five, five clips from that. No

420
00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:43,230
agenda that was so unhinged
people hearing things that are

421
00:26:43,230 --> 00:26:44,880
not even there. It was great.

422
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,360
Dave Jones: It was like it was,
I think it was a couple of days

423
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,990
ago was the Africa during the
title of it was all about Trump.

424
00:26:52,260 --> 00:27:00,450
And so it was like some body
took. When future archaeologists

425
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,740
attempt to understand Trump
derangement syndrome, this

426
00:27:04,740 --> 00:27:08,580
episode of On the media will be
their Rosetta Stone. That is,

427
00:27:09,330 --> 00:27:13,740
it's like somebody took Trump
derangement syndrome, distilled

428
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,440
it, purified it into liquid for
20

429
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,780
Adam Curry: minutes and put it
into 20 minutes. It was in a

430
00:27:18,780 --> 00:27:20,520
special episode no less.

431
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:23,310
Dave Jones: When you're high on
liquid Trump derangement

432
00:27:23,310 --> 00:27:25,830
syndrome. This is your favorite
train. That's what it sounds

433
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:33,000
like. True in? Do you remember a
single advertiser from that

434
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:33,570
episode?

435
00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:36,270
Adam Curry: Well, I am. So I
have pretty much eliminated

436
00:27:36,270 --> 00:27:40,560
advertising for my life that I
had used. I've used the piehole

437
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,240
for years. So I really between
my piehole and brave browser,

438
00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:50,700
really very little gets through,
you know, graphene OS. So

439
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:54,300
there's much less stuff being
tracked and trying to be

440
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:58,470
recommended to me through other
arenas I get, I never see an ad

441
00:27:58,470 --> 00:28:06,120
on Twitter that I like the ads
on most of the podcasts. I've

442
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:09,960
listened to like, I've listened
to the pivot ads, because I'm

443
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,780
very interested, who advertises
and they have, I have to say,

444
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:17,490
for all the F bombs and all the
racism that they espouse,

445
00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:22,950
especially against white men.
It's and Christian hates and all

446
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:26,400
this stuff, the or fear of God,
I should say, because man,

447
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:32,670
they're afraid of God. The order
your sky, daddy, they, they they

448
00:28:32,670 --> 00:28:36,870
have apple. The funniest one is,
you know, just show you how

449
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:39,990
corrupt they are morally corrupt
without even knowing it. I'm not

450
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:44,820
going to accuse them. They have
at Atlassian is advertising like

451
00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:48,240
crazy. Of course, they're
they're the award winning tech

452
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,580
show, being the tech news about
Atlassian is how Confluence has

453
00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:57,420
been hacked by the Chinese and
all the military contractors are

454
00:28:57,420 --> 00:29:00,420
freaking out. But of course,
they can't talk about that, nor

455
00:29:00,420 --> 00:29:06,210
will they ever when Atlassian is
is advertising. You know, so I'm

456
00:29:06,210 --> 00:29:10,830
always surprised, but also
delightfully delighted by how

457
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:14,520
they are literally doing ads for
Apple together. Now in the most

458
00:29:14,550 --> 00:29:18,210
disingenuous way, Scott, what do
you have on your Mac? Well, I

459
00:29:18,210 --> 00:29:21,090
have numbers because you know, I
need to know what's going on

460
00:29:21,090 --> 00:29:25,680
with the numbers. I mean, it's
numbers. The Karate is the

461
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:32,670
craziest Excel ever works. It's
so bad. I about to do with

462
00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:35,310
speech. I'm gonna use Keynote.
No, you're not you're using

463
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:38,040
PowerPoint, don't lie. Don't
lie. We all know we know you're

464
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:45,510
full of crap. But everybody I
mean, advertising is so the

465
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:50,550
antithesis of value for value.
Because it's, it's disruptive.

466
00:29:51,090 --> 00:29:54,210
You know, it's it's interrupting
your enjoyment. And that just

467
00:29:54,210 --> 00:29:58,740
goes to show that people do not
care about the podcast if they

468
00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:02,040
don't listen to the ads It's
really it's a it's a, it's a bad

469
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:07,470
ask, please listen to the ads to
support us. Oh, my God, I mean,

470
00:30:07,470 --> 00:30:10,710
all you have to do is say, send
send me some some value, and

471
00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:14,850
someone might send you 50 bucks.
You know, that'll be the entire

472
00:30:14,970 --> 00:30:20,460
run of that ad for a month.
Besides why it's such a small

473
00:30:20,460 --> 00:30:24,390
switch in your head to instead
of saying please listen to the

474
00:30:24,390 --> 00:30:28,200
ads, click on the the
advertisers to saying Why don't

475
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,210
you support the show with
whatever you think it's worth?

476
00:30:30,930 --> 00:30:34,560
It's just it's it. The whole
world has to move this way.

477
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:40,440
Unfortunately, Amazon and I
gladly pay for for Amazon Prime

478
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:47,940
video, I gladly play for pay for
Netflix. Then they have Hulu. I

479
00:30:47,970 --> 00:30:50,910
have no cable anymore. I cut the
cord on that there's nothing

480
00:30:50,910 --> 00:30:53,880
there's no no cable in my life.
So none of those ads, I don't

481
00:30:53,880 --> 00:31:00,300
listen to radio. But now Amazon,
they're moving towards the ad

482
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:04,800
this thing called free V. Sykes
is that well, you're looking for

483
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,220
some show or some things that
oh, the show was right here. Oh,

484
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:12,180
it's free v. So it has ads. But
I don't see a way for me to just

485
00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:15,930
let me have to pay extra for
this, I'll pay extra for it.

486
00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:20,880
They don't get that opportunity.
It's so it's so short sighted.

487
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,540
And then the whole world will
have to move towards either

488
00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:28,410
straight up subscription. Which
some things are just worth

489
00:31:28,410 --> 00:31:31,530
subscribing to. I think
everything's and I don't have

490
00:31:31,530 --> 00:31:35,130
any subscriptions that way. But
some and you know, we know that

491
00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,130
this streaming model doesn't
work because they're all losing

492
00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:43,050
money. So that's not working to
ultimately, you kind of gotta

493
00:31:43,050 --> 00:31:46,980
move towards a value for value
model. Then if you're not

494
00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:51,240
skipping the ads, that's value
for value. View our even if you

495
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,260
don't care, you are showing
value by listening to an ad. But

496
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:59,100
what a what a what a horrible
thing instead of hey, love me,

497
00:31:59,130 --> 00:32:02,550
help me. It's love me. Take some
beatings.

498
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:10,320
Dave Jones: Yeah. Well, yeah,
the that the fader thing. I'm

499
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,500
like you it just, it was
inevitable. I mean, come on

500
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:19,890
everybody. This is we could all
sit down for a little while this

501
00:32:19,890 --> 00:32:24,720
is, I mean, even before AI, this
before AI, lots of people had

502
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,100
lots of ways that they had come
up with to do this exact thing.

503
00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:33,810
Adam Curry: How about a DVR bit
started with DVRs? Like, oh, I

504
00:32:33,810 --> 00:32:37,260
recorded the show, or let's
walk, let's start watching the

505
00:32:37,260 --> 00:32:40,470
show at five after the hour. So
when the ad comes on, I can fast

506
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:44,220
forward through it. Everyone's
done that it's a broken model is

507
00:32:44,970 --> 00:32:48,630
some of it still works. I mean,
I'm not against commerce and

508
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:53,460
advertising. It just doesn't
seem to be working anymore. When

509
00:32:53,460 --> 00:32:55,710
it's when you're in this
environment. I

510
00:32:55,710 --> 00:32:58,680
Dave Jones: think that's the
difference. Like the advertising

511
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:05,580
model. It all it only it only
worked up into the point. Up

512
00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:09,810
until the point where there was
a digital were became digital.

513
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,730
Yeah. TiVo? Yeah, the digital
ecosystem. And the advertising

514
00:33:14,730 --> 00:33:17,310
model. Just they just don't work
together.

515
00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:19,950
Adam Curry: Or even there's VHS.
I mean, that's when it really

516
00:33:19,950 --> 00:33:21,270
started. You

517
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:25,470
Dave Jones: as soon as you can
control in an automated way.

518
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,780
What the what the content is?
It's just it's your it's a

519
00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:35,280
complete collapse. Yeah. And you
can't stop it because it just

520
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,960
the same way that you can't
stop. You know, that you can

521
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,980
spam filter. I mean, think about
it that way. spam filtering is

522
00:33:43,980 --> 00:33:45,630
just weeding out advertising.

523
00:33:45,660 --> 00:33:49,860
Adam Curry: Yeah. Thank you.
It's exactly what it is. When

524
00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:53,670
Dave Jones: I don't want to, I
want to use an email, my email.

525
00:33:54,570 --> 00:34:00,360
But I don't want to see ads for
Viagra. So I spam filter because

526
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,740
we already have a subscription.
And this is just not smart.

527
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,710
That's just dumb advertising.
It's called Pfizer blue.

528
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,800
Adam Curry: Is that the new
thing? Pfizer blue? Is that what

529
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:11,640
it's called? The dollars a

530
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,470
Dave Jones: month you get out?
Yes. I agree.

531
00:34:15,450 --> 00:34:17,760
Adam Curry: That's a deal. ffice
eyes are

532
00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:23,940
Dave Jones: blue. You get the
blue check. The blue V like the

533
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,100
so this is have been happening
for you. Let me go a little bit

534
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:34,200
further than that on that on ad
blocking. Because ad ad

535
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,220
blocking. I don't for most most
people's interaction with ad

536
00:34:38,220 --> 00:34:43,410
blockers is that they don't like
seeing a bunch of ads on the

537
00:34:43,410 --> 00:34:46,320
internet when they browse so
they install an ad blocker.

538
00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:53,100
That's like the normal view and
you user you know what control

539
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:56,550
like a rent roll control
residential? Yeah, that's that's

540
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:58,920
sort of everybody's typical
interaction. But there's a

541
00:34:59,130 --> 00:35:03,570
there's another side to this,
that it people see in the

542
00:35:03,570 --> 00:35:13,380
enterprise. And for us adver
adblocking is not primarily a

543
00:35:13,380 --> 00:35:19,920
thing about convenience or
entertainment or whatever. It's

544
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:26,280
a safety issue. Yes. So we we
deploy as most enterprises do,

545
00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:30,150
pretty much as a standard, we
deploy some level of Ad blocking

546
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:35,640
across the board in a defensive
posture. Because digital

547
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,960
advertising like banner ads
became malicious. Long ago, they

548
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,690
did they did, you would you
would go to a website, a

549
00:35:42,690 --> 00:35:45,960
JavaScript ad would would would
pop your machine and you're

550
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:51,690
compromised. So the enterprise
world took a defensive stance

551
00:35:51,690 --> 00:35:55,980
against advertising many years
ago, and that has persisted and

552
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,750
even gotten stronger. So a lot,
most, most, most enterprise

553
00:36:00,750 --> 00:36:05,640
level, it will do things like,
like you said, like pot pie

554
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,060
holing, but it's you know, it's
at the firewall level, that will

555
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:12,810
firewall it, they'll host name
list it, they will put in

556
00:36:12,810 --> 00:36:16,290
browser ad blocker extensions,
they have multiple like is

557
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:21,540
multiple layers of advertising
blocking, as a to reduce their

558
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:28,590
attack surface. And you this
level of tech and commitment to

559
00:36:28,590 --> 00:36:33,810
the process of Ad blocking, will
norm will inevitably flow

560
00:36:33,810 --> 00:36:39,840
downhill into the rest of of
digital media. Audio comes next,

561
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,740
even though audio has you could
you can say for sure that audio

562
00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:48,000
has less of an attack vector on
the ad front than something like

563
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,650
a browser ad does. But it's not
zero. So like you, you could,

564
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,890
you could, so we all know stage
fright, and the stage fright

565
00:36:55,890 --> 00:36:59,250
vulnerabilities from Android
Wear media where certain types

566
00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:03,870
of media get played, and it
would pop your phone that you

567
00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:08,880
this stuff is coming. And it's
coming from different angles.

568
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,750
It's not just I guess what I'm
trying to say is, when you look

569
00:37:12,750 --> 00:37:15,600
at people using ad blockers, or
trying to strip ads from

570
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,890
content, it's not always just
about this greedy sob trying to

571
00:37:19,890 --> 00:37:23,490
get something for free. There
are other motivations involved.

572
00:37:24,060 --> 00:37:28,650
Adam Curry: True, and I and I'm
old enough to remember the first

573
00:37:28,650 --> 00:37:35,220
ad blockers popping up in web
browsers. Adblock I think, and I

574
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:39,810
remember I was in the
advertising space at the time.

575
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:44,580
And not not with with web ads,
per se, but I had commercial

576
00:37:44,580 --> 00:37:48,480
clients who were involved in a
lot of this. And you know, that

577
00:37:48,510 --> 00:37:52,530
the industry got together and
well we have to deal with they

578
00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:56,940
had whitelisting acceptable ads,
you know, quote unquote,

579
00:37:56,940 --> 00:38:01,800
acceptable ads, all this stuff.
It never works. It none of it

580
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,340
has ever worked. It never will.
It's just, it's not going to

581
00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:09,990
happen. Because ultimately, the
advertising methodology of

582
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:17,460
interruption is anti human. It's
just it's anti human. Mm.

583
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:24,390
Moreover, because advertising is
tailored towards making

584
00:38:24,420 --> 00:38:27,810
difference done well towards
making you open and susceptible

585
00:38:27,810 --> 00:38:31,020
for the ad. At the moment it
comes if it's really done well.

586
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,910
And now the paywall thing is
different. And I think that's

587
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:40,710
also anti human. You know, it's
like, oh, wow, I want to read

588
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:44,400
this article. Click paywall. Do
you have a choice right there.

589
00:38:45,090 --> 00:38:49,410
Now it's like, do I use some
tools I might have? Do I just

590
00:38:49,410 --> 00:38:53,370
that wasn't that important. I'm
not going to look at it. And I

591
00:38:53,370 --> 00:38:57,960
would posit that if you made it
frictionless for someone to say,

592
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:59,970
oh, you know, that was kind of
cool. Thanks for giving me that

593
00:38:59,970 --> 00:39:03,810
I'm gonna pay you 10 SATs or
whatever. I would posit that

594
00:39:03,810 --> 00:39:08,010
ultimately that will be better
for you than any other

595
00:39:08,010 --> 00:39:12,300
methodology in the long run as
we go down this hill, which just

596
00:39:12,330 --> 00:39:16,590
is a race to the bottom it it is
has always been that way. You

597
00:39:16,590 --> 00:39:23,340
know, we had you remember when
cassettes came out and then the

598
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,210
mom was stealing music so how
they do it? They put $1 on the

599
00:39:27,210 --> 00:39:30,960
price of blank cassettes that
went to the music industry that

600
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,960
didn't last they want to do the
same thing with hard drives.

601
00:39:35,310 --> 00:39:37,290
Dave Jones: I don't remember
that. Oh, yeah. When

602
00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:39,810
Adam Curry: I think that was
when Napster was around

603
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,630
Dave Jones: Yep. They want to
they wanted to have a tax on

604
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:43,800
hard hard drives.

605
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,380
Adam Curry: Yeah, cuz you were
storing your music on it. Yeah,

606
00:39:46,650 --> 00:39:52,410
I bet a bit that actually musi
was it. Hard Drive music.

607
00:39:53,370 --> 00:39:55,380
Dave Jones: I didn't remember
that about the cassette tapes.

608
00:39:56,460 --> 00:40:01,260
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. Oh, all
blank media had be private copy

609
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:05,850
levy There you go. Copy lead
also known as blank media tax

610
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,790
government mandated scheme in
which a special tax or Levy,

611
00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:12,660
this charge on purchase of
recordable media history Let me

612
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:19,080
see your Europe of course
European have they had that? In

613
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:27,660
Belgium Oh well, I guess it
hasn't gone away entirely in

614
00:40:27,660 --> 00:40:30,720
Belgium a fee is charged on both
blank media and recording

615
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:35,190
equipment, which is passed on to
Ovie Bell, which is in charge of

616
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:38,730
distributing the funds as of
February 120 10. So I don't know

617
00:40:38,730 --> 00:40:43,230
if it's still around mp3 mp4
players how to tax TV Hi Fi

618
00:40:43,230 --> 00:40:46,800
combined DVD writer video
recorder multifunctional DVD.

619
00:40:46,830 --> 00:40:48,990
This has been around for a long
time.

620
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:52,260
Dave Jones: I had no this is a
revelation to even

621
00:40:52,260 --> 00:40:57,450
Adam Curry: have oh, yeah, in
Finland. It's four euros for

622
00:40:57,450 --> 00:41:01,890
memory cards up to five or
memory devices up to 512

623
00:41:01,890 --> 00:41:07,380
megabytes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

624
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,350
Dave Jones: So do the phone
like, do phone manufacturers

625
00:41:10,350 --> 00:41:13,740
also pay this like an iPhone or
an Android device or Lord knows,

626
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:16,590
Adam Curry: I don't even know if
it's still in play. But this,

627
00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:20,910
this was one of the solutions. I
don't think these prices are in

628
00:41:20,910 --> 00:41:24,330
play, because you can get for 36
euros, you can get a lot more

629
00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:27,870
than that kind of space these
days. I mean, cases the cost of

630
00:41:27,870 --> 00:41:32,940
what they are. But there's
always been, you know, so you

631
00:41:32,970 --> 00:41:39,930
you devolve to DRM, which has
its own drawbacks. All I can say

632
00:41:39,930 --> 00:41:44,970
is, from my own 16 years of
experience, value for value

633
00:41:44,970 --> 00:41:52,110
works, that it is not designed,
or even humane to be something

634
00:41:52,110 --> 00:41:55,980
that works for everybody, which
is the antithesis of what the

635
00:41:55,980 --> 00:42:00,540
promise is from Silicon Valley.
Get a camera, you'll make money.

636
00:42:00,570 --> 00:42:06,930
You're a YouTuber, we not every
not every podcast or product is

637
00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:11,340
designed to have a mass audience
that will make you livable wage

638
00:42:11,850 --> 00:42:15,180
1000 people who care a lot about
what you're doing in whatever

639
00:42:15,180 --> 00:42:18,000
community you're in, and
actually may make your life

640
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,570
sustainable. This is the promise
of value for value. But the

641
00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:25,020
promise is just not for
everybody. You may be doing a

642
00:42:25,020 --> 00:42:28,710
great podcast, but no one cares,
because it's not for anybody

643
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:31,950
else. But you know, it's just
no,

644
00:42:32,910 --> 00:42:35,910
Dave Jones: no, yeah, I can I
can confidently say that. A

645
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:39,870
podcast like this, which is a
podcast about this a podcast

646
00:42:39,870 --> 00:42:42,810
about not just this is not a
podcast about podcasting. This

647
00:42:42,810 --> 00:42:48,600
is a podcast about something
very specific, very. The Bucha

648
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,080
is a boy a one single open
source project within

649
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,080
podcasting. I mean, that is
niche upon niche upon niche,

650
00:42:55,350 --> 00:43:00,030
there is no way that this show
will ever be able to provide us

651
00:43:00,060 --> 00:43:03,510
a living wage is just not it's
just not going to happen. So

652
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:08,730
that's not Yeah, you're right. I
mean, these if you if you have a

653
00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:16,020
podcast about you know about
random subject a, there's a

654
00:43:16,020 --> 00:43:18,240
likelihood that is just not
going to have you're not going

655
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:20,760
to be able to do a living wage
out of it. I mean, value for

656
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,850
value is going to be just as
successful to you as best

657
00:43:23,850 --> 00:43:25,320
advertising. More

658
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,720
Adam Curry: successful, I think,
yeah, at

659
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:28,260
Dave Jones: least

660
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,210
Adam Curry: if you if you're
looking at this podcast,

661
00:43:30,210 --> 00:43:35,880
according to OP three dot dev in
the last 30 days, how many

662
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:40,290
downloads Do you think we've
had? What do you think?

663
00:43:42,780 --> 00:43:44,490
Dave Jones: For the like the
last episode,

664
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,010
Adam Curry: not in the last 30
days?

665
00:43:47,550 --> 00:43:53,340
Dave Jones: How many downloads?
Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna say to

666
00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:57,840
10,000 5694

667
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,950
Adam Curry: this year. Yeah. As
in November, our unique audience

668
00:44:01,950 --> 00:44:06,390
was 5458. And I just use these
numbers because that's the best

669
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:11,040
numbers we got. Is that op
three? That's op three. Yeah.

670
00:44:11,490 --> 00:44:11,880
Yes.

671
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:15,000
Dave Jones: That that these
numbers are coming down, man,

672
00:44:15,150 --> 00:44:20,970
that all yes, that are going on.
These numbers are hilariously

673
00:44:20,970 --> 00:44:25,350
coming down. Because we were at
13,000. I know. We were two

674
00:44:25,350 --> 00:44:29,190
months. We're knocking it out of
the park. But this was probably

675
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:31,650
the true number the whole time,
you know, or something closer to

676
00:44:31,650 --> 00:44:35,280
it. This is funny, man. This
whole thing is just the

677
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,390
advertising and podcasting. It's
just so distasteful to me, is so

678
00:44:39,390 --> 00:44:44,010
distasteful. It's I'm gonna have
to stop listening to this stuff.

679
00:44:44,460 --> 00:44:47,280
Like these all these different
shows about advertising and

680
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,550
stuff like that. They just they
just, they're gross. They're

681
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:53,640
slimy. They'll like it. Well,

682
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,930
Adam Curry: I Okay. I won't go
that far because I just I've

683
00:44:57,930 --> 00:45:00,330
been in this business. I
understand it. I ended Stand up

684
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,140
much better than people may even
give me credit for. I left the

685
00:45:04,140 --> 00:45:11,190
business on purpose, and took a
huge leap to change my life. And

686
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:14,280
it's done more than just change.
My Media has changed my life.

687
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,210
It's how I live my life. And I'm
just the money router. You know,

688
00:45:18,210 --> 00:45:20,610
it's like, I'm giving away money
left and right. Oh, you got to

689
00:45:20,610 --> 00:45:24,990
open source project, boom. Oh,
you mean next cloud? Yeah, I use

690
00:45:24,990 --> 00:45:28,920
all the time. And if they remind
me somewhere, oh, yeah, I got to

691
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,670
support you, boom. I'm doing
this all the time.

692
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:35,280
Dave Jones: I'm like, the only
guy I know that pays for signal.

693
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,270
No, I

694
00:45:36,270 --> 00:45:38,940
Adam Curry: donated a signal.
Sure, sure. Of course, of

695
00:45:38,940 --> 00:45:42,120
course, you got to otherwise one
day, it'll go away. It goes

696
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,760
away. That's right. And then
finally, you know that now that

697
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:51,930
Amazon Web Services is charging
for public ipv4 addresses. ipv6

698
00:45:51,930 --> 00:45:57,150
is no but ipv6 is here. It's
it's going to change things.

699
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:01,020
It's going to change all of
this. And I just feel bad for

700
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:05,250
people who desperately hold on
to this stuff. The

701
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,350
Dave Jones: the pipe, the reason
I say it's slimy is because the

702
00:46:07,350 --> 00:46:12,660
podcast advertising is, is what
is driving at 90 miles an hour.

703
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:16,890
And there's a cliff about Yeah,
often the distance and it's just

704
00:46:16,890 --> 00:46:21,060
heading straight for it. And the
whole time up into the very last

705
00:46:21,060 --> 00:46:29,820
moment, when the front wheels go
an inch off into the to, you

706
00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:36,180
know, to space, they're going to
continue to tell everybody that

707
00:46:36,180 --> 00:46:39,810
revenues up revenues up, revenue
is up, we got better targeting,

708
00:46:39,810 --> 00:46:42,360
we got this, we got that. And
then you're going to just be

709
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,680
like the, you know, the coyote,
you should be falling. It's

710
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,230
headed towards the bottom of
the, you know, of the value of

711
00:46:49,230 --> 00:46:50,940
the beaut, or whatever.

712
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:56,280
Adam Curry: And then, you know,
while we're on this, and I'm

713
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:02,460
pretty sure this started on
noster. But um, I won't blame

714
00:47:02,460 --> 00:47:10,890
them per se, is zapped for zap
vertising was, Oh, wow. So these

715
00:47:10,890 --> 00:47:16,560
are companies that will get your
lightning address. You know,

716
00:47:16,590 --> 00:47:16,860
like,

717
00:47:17,220 --> 00:47:20,070
Dave Jones: this is what Sam
was? Yes. So which of

718
00:47:20,070 --> 00:47:23,130
Adam Curry: course is Bo you get
it right off of nostre. That's

719
00:47:23,130 --> 00:47:30,990
the easiest way. You know, this
is what Al B and and fountain

720
00:47:31,020 --> 00:47:34,410
mio requested. And we changed in
the namespace so I can have you

721
00:47:34,410 --> 00:47:40,770
know, adam@fountain.fm. So now,
all of that's being trolled.

722
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:44,760
But, of course, as being scraped
out of feeds, I'm sure but the

723
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,690
easiest place because people are
using it actively this way. With

724
00:47:48,690 --> 00:47:55,080
Ellen URL pay is noster. And so
now people are receiving, you

725
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,880
know, one to five sat payments
with an ad in it.

726
00:48:01,620 --> 00:48:05,820
Dave Jones: That think that's
great. I mean, all day long,

727
00:48:05,850 --> 00:48:13,920
Adam Curry: I think I think it
shows that. You know, in a way

728
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,760
it shows that noster and even
the Lightning Network are

729
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:23,190
solutions. Looking for problems?
To make any sense.

730
00:48:25,530 --> 00:48:26,280
Dave Jones: Yeah,

731
00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:31,380
Adam Curry: I mean, this This to
me is just it's gotten so bad.

732
00:48:31,860 --> 00:48:36,990
That now all that your noster
zap thing is good for is to

733
00:48:36,990 --> 00:48:43,590
receive SMS advertising, spam,
spam, spam, spam, spam, as bad.

734
00:48:43,650 --> 00:48:47,700
Now, you know, everyone's going
to have to now I'm with you to a

735
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:51,240
degree on like, well, if you're
going to send me 1000 SATs make

736
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:54,780
it more interesting. But you
know, now we want us to go build

737
00:48:54,780 --> 00:48:57,750
filtering for that. So it's
still intrusive,

738
00:48:58,380 --> 00:49:00,450
Dave Jones: but depends on how
much you're you know, it depends

739
00:49:00,450 --> 00:49:04,590
on how much you're worth. I
mean, if you if you look at my

740
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,630
you know, look, I can look off
into the future on this thing

741
00:49:09,630 --> 00:49:19,590
and say, Okay, well, somebody
sees our show sees our pod roll

742
00:49:20,070 --> 00:49:24,630
with various shows in it. They
look at our mp3 which is public.

743
00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:28,830
And they say okay, well this do
these people have this issue has

744
00:49:28,830 --> 00:49:36,030
5000 sat 5000 downloads they
have there, they seem to align

745
00:49:36,030 --> 00:49:41,670
well. I'm going to I'm going to
spam them with with some with

746
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:45,510
some boost and try to get me to
try to get mentioned on the show

747
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:49,710
and for our end we're going to
just going to pump in our our

748
00:49:49,710 --> 00:49:52,950
advertisements and then maybe
even not a mention on the show

749
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:57,840
but since the boost and become
public. The like, I don't know I

750
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,930
could see this as being sort of
fun. It's almost like an

751
00:50:00,930 --> 00:50:07,350
automated what would you call
that like a, like an automated

752
00:50:07,350 --> 00:50:13,500
way to have your ad pop up. It's
like programmatic ads. But but

753
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:17,430
you pay to get into it. And it's
like, nobody blocks it. It just

754
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:20,940
comes right in there. Well, you
have to pay a decent ml you, you

755
00:50:20,940 --> 00:50:23,220
set thresholds. And that's

756
00:50:23,250 --> 00:50:27,420
Adam Curry: that that's what's
missing. Yeah. And I run my own

757
00:50:27,420 --> 00:50:31,650
node, I get nose advertising,
but I don't have a single one.

758
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:32,850
Single

759
00:50:32,850 --> 00:50:33,690
Dave Jones: Why have any?

760
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,160
Adam Curry: I haven't looked. I
don't even think I have any on

761
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,060
Alby. And before, I only have
one Albion, one block these

762
00:50:42,060 --> 00:50:45,660
days. But you know what, now
now, we do need filtering for

763
00:50:45,660 --> 00:50:47,970
that, and I love helipad,
because helipad will just won't

764
00:50:47,970 --> 00:50:50,670
show it to me. If it's not in a
TLV record. I'm not going to see

765
00:50:50,670 --> 00:50:53,190
it. It's just I don't know.

766
00:50:54,750 --> 00:50:58,050
Dave Jones: It's like this is
this is all floundering is what

767
00:50:58,050 --> 00:50:58,500
this? Yeah,

768
00:50:58,530 --> 00:51:01,050
Adam Curry: that's okay. There's
there's a good term floundering.

769
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,580
It's just floundering. Hey, I
had an idea. This may be a weird

770
00:51:05,580 --> 00:51:09,450
thought. Because again, you
know, YouTube, the Doom podcast

771
00:51:09,450 --> 00:51:21,960
is great. Is it weird of me to
think that the even if it's HTML

772
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:27,420
embedded HTML code, is that
wrong? As an enclosure on a

773
00:51:27,420 --> 00:51:27,990
feed?

774
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:31,530
Dave Jones: An HTML enclosure?

775
00:51:32,700 --> 00:51:37,800
Adam Curry: Yeah, like an embed
code. So. So instead of fighting

776
00:51:37,830 --> 00:51:41,310
YouTube, which I don't really
care, but if you want to be on

777
00:51:41,310 --> 00:51:44,580
YouTube, so you know, the way I
wanted to seek where there's

778
00:51:44,580 --> 00:51:48,210
zagging, So YouTube is saying,
Give us all your RSS belong to

779
00:51:48,210 --> 00:51:51,840
us. And we're going to, we're
going to ingest it and there's

780
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,770
no and then once we have it,
screw your RSS entry. We have

781
00:51:55,770 --> 00:52:02,460
it. Okay, now, if I just wanted
to put my YouTube video into my

782
00:52:02,460 --> 00:52:07,980
RSS feed as an enclosure, does
it necessarily mean an enclosure

783
00:52:07,980 --> 00:52:13,830
can be a PDF and enclosure can
be an mp3 and an M, an mp4? It

784
00:52:13,830 --> 00:52:17,250
can be all kinds of different
downloadable media

785
00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:19,980
Dave Jones: is it can be
anything with a MIME type.

786
00:52:21,420 --> 00:52:27,270
Adam Curry: So could it be just
an embeddable YouTube code that

787
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:30,390
just pops up within the app?
Because the app says, Oh, this

788
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:36,030
is a YouTube? I mean, does it
have to use? You understand what

789
00:52:36,030 --> 00:52:37,020
I'm saying? Like the HTML

790
00:52:37,020 --> 00:52:38,490
Dave Jones: like that you're
talking about when you get one

791
00:52:38,490 --> 00:52:40,890
of those HTML fragments? Yeah.

792
00:52:41,130 --> 00:52:45,510
Adam Curry: Yeah. Like a web, a
web clip, a web snippet? Because

793
00:52:45,780 --> 00:52:49,980
the only reason why YouTube wins
at this game is because of all

794
00:52:49,980 --> 00:52:54,690
the obvious things they solved,
which is a compatibility across

795
00:52:54,930 --> 00:53:01,620
all browsers, and storage and
bandwidth. So why wouldn't we

796
00:53:01,620 --> 00:53:04,380
just you know, because I still
want my metadata around it.

797
00:53:04,380 --> 00:53:07,410
What's wrong with embedding a
YouTube video making a YouTube

798
00:53:07,410 --> 00:53:11,250
video and enclosure? Easy for
apps to understand?

799
00:53:12,090 --> 00:53:14,190
Dave Jones: Yeah, they would
just spawn a WebView to show it.

800
00:53:14,220 --> 00:53:15,210
Yeah. It's,

801
00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:20,190
Adam Curry: I mean, I have no
religious, you know, like, any,

802
00:53:20,370 --> 00:53:26,730
any RSS versus downloadable
media. reason to not think

803
00:53:26,730 --> 00:53:32,910
that's legal. From a technical
standpoint. No,

804
00:53:32,910 --> 00:53:35,340
Dave Jones: I mean, it's totally
laid out the only thing that

805
00:53:35,340 --> 00:53:38,850
they could do only thing that
YouTube could do would be they

806
00:53:38,850 --> 00:53:43,110
could begin to block a showing
it based on the referrer header.

807
00:53:43,770 --> 00:53:46,950
Yeah, well, of course, we're not
gonna allow this, but I mean,

808
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:49,680
that's, that's a cat and mouse
game. Yeah.

809
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,600
Adam Curry: I mean, you can get
around that eventually. And you

810
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,510
know, and sometimes, yeah, I
mean, would there be a course

811
00:53:54,510 --> 00:53:57,270
issue may be I don't know. I'm
just throwing out some terms. I

812
00:53:57,270 --> 00:54:01,740
have no idea what they mean. I
just hit me. It's like, you

813
00:54:01,740 --> 00:54:06,660
know, YouTube is a YouTube
music. Although James Cridland

814
00:54:06,660 --> 00:54:09,570
loves it. He says a pretty it's
a pretty good podcast that what

815
00:54:09,570 --> 00:54:13,110
if I just want my podcast app,
but I just want to add Theo,

816
00:54:13,110 --> 00:54:18,660
Vons YouTube video feed, and he
just creates a feed is called

817
00:54:18,660 --> 00:54:22,260
Theo Vaughn's YouTube video
feed. And he puts him the embed

818
00:54:22,260 --> 00:54:28,110
links as the enclosure or
something like that. And then my

819
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,970
podcast app, which I know do all
my podcast stuff with, just as

820
00:54:32,970 --> 00:54:36,810
Oh, this is a YouTube video.
Boom, I'll, I'll display it.

821
00:54:38,430 --> 00:54:41,730
Dave Jones: Yes, yeah. I mean, I
was still say, why wouldn't

822
00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:42,690
because I think I think we're

823
00:54:42,690 --> 00:54:45,480
Adam Curry: in this weird space.
We're being complicated about

824
00:54:45,630 --> 00:54:48,810
them being the app. No, they're
just the storage in the end the

825
00:54:48,810 --> 00:54:53,520
bandwidth people. That just
because it's just because it's a

826
00:54:53,550 --> 00:54:57,300
you know, it's streams like I
stream all my NP threes. I mean,

827
00:54:57,300 --> 00:55:00,900
yeah. Will you be able to view
it as a download? Maybe I mean,

828
00:55:00,930 --> 00:55:04,530
you can get there's lots of apps
that that help you download the

829
00:55:04,530 --> 00:55:07,770
actual video from YouTube maybe
can implement that.

830
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:15,450
Dave Jones: Yeah, it would. So
yeah, there's like as far as

831
00:55:15,450 --> 00:55:19,710
violating any specs. It doesn't,
right? No, no, no, not at all.

832
00:55:19,710 --> 00:55:22,950
Because we, we used to do this
in the freedom controller where

833
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:28,230
we would do exactly as
enclosures, we would put HTML,

834
00:55:28,350 --> 00:55:32,910
yes, enclosures. And so then the
HTML, the enclosure, when the

835
00:55:33,090 --> 00:55:37,200
when the, when the news river
saw the HTML enclosure, it would

836
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:42,870
include it as a as, as a embed
in the post. And

837
00:55:42,900 --> 00:55:47,160
Adam Curry: I will, I'm willing
to bet with you, which I won't,

838
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:53,820
but I'm willing to bet that
YouTube would once YouTube sees,

839
00:55:53,850 --> 00:55:58,260
oh, you know, everyone's using
our YouTube videos, which they

840
00:55:58,260 --> 00:56:02,040
can easily put an ad in front of
if they want to. I mean, you

841
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,670
can't really stop that per se,
although you could. But once

842
00:56:05,670 --> 00:56:08,670
it's embedded, I mean, they
could choose the route, they

843
00:56:08,670 --> 00:56:12,300
could choose the route of no
will block all podcast apps. I

844
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:15,150
have a feeling they might say,
well, who cares? It's more

845
00:56:15,150 --> 00:56:16,500
distribution for us.

846
00:56:18,660 --> 00:56:20,700
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, they
don't really block anything

847
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:21,630
nowadays. Do they?

848
00:56:21,870 --> 00:56:24,600
Adam Curry: Know the only thing
I get is like, you can't know

849
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:28,230
this. The owner won't let you
view this as an embedded video,

850
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:31,710
which is an owner setting. But I
think everything else embedded

851
00:56:31,710 --> 00:56:35,820
anywhere, just play it plays on
Mastodon, the history, plenty of

852
00:56:36,030 --> 00:56:39,360
plenty of people put that. So
why wouldn't we just have that?

853
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,440
I mean, let's not be jihadist
about this, you know, it's like

854
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,530
let's turn it around, turn that
frown upside down. Make your

855
00:56:46,530 --> 00:56:51,120
YouTube make your YouTube
channel or whatever, just make

856
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,960
turn that into into your your,
your your hosting company for

857
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,970
your videos, then hosting
companies. I'm going to exclude

858
00:56:59,970 --> 00:57:03,450
some, for obvious reasons. But
that's really the only reason

859
00:57:03,450 --> 00:57:06,030
Oh, yes. Or they have a great
recommendation engine. Okay, as

860
00:57:06,030 --> 00:57:08,640
long as you keep feeding it, but
most people subscribe to

861
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,010
podcasts because you heard about
it from somebody else, or it's

862
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:15,540
in your pod roll, which we now
have. So how would I go about

863
00:57:15,540 --> 00:57:18,270
doing that? Can I just create a
feed? And how do we do that with

864
00:57:18,270 --> 00:57:21,930
the freedom controller? We just
put it in as enclosure and then

865
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,450
the freedom controller knew how
to read it. Yeah,

866
00:57:24,450 --> 00:57:26,250
Dave Jones: so the way the
freedom controller did this was

867
00:57:26,250 --> 00:57:33,900
it would you have when you saved
an article, you if you were on a

868
00:57:33,900 --> 00:57:37,830
YouTube video, you would say
even in you chose to save that

869
00:57:37,830 --> 00:57:43,140
article in your database in your
in your archive, the or you

870
00:57:43,140 --> 00:57:47,340
chose to microblogging, but back
to your micro blog. Whichever

871
00:57:47,340 --> 00:57:50,850
way you did it, it would pull
the embed code for that YouTube

872
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,830
video out here you go included
as the enclosure with a with a

873
00:57:55,830 --> 00:58:01,950
content type of text slash HTML.
And so then when it comes back,

874
00:58:02,010 --> 00:58:07,260
the when you see it in your, in
your newsfeed on the freedom

875
00:58:07,260 --> 00:58:11,700
controller page, when you saw it
in your newsfeed, that post

876
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:15,390
would just be the video, it
would just be the embed. So

877
00:58:15,390 --> 00:58:20,040
you're seeing embeddable YouTube
videos in your just in your

878
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,980
feed, and you just click play,
you never actually leave that

879
00:58:22,980 --> 00:58:24,060
page and go to YouTube. So

880
00:58:24,060 --> 00:58:26,760
Adam Curry: how does this work
with peer tube? When when you

881
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,220
get a peer tube? Isn't it
exactly the same thing?

882
00:58:31,020 --> 00:58:35,910
Dave Jones: Peer tube, peer tube
has native support for

883
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:41,130
podcasting 2.0 alternating
closures. And so what's the MIME

884
00:58:41,130 --> 00:58:44,190
type? The MIME type for it is
HLS.

885
00:58:44,460 --> 00:58:47,250
Adam Curry: Okay, right. Gotcha
is now. Okay, while we're on

886
00:58:47,250 --> 00:58:52,920
this. So let's say new media
show goes live. And I have an

887
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,520
option, maybe it's a third feed,
and the option is the live

888
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:01,170
YouTube feed. But I can still
stream my sets per minute to

889
00:59:01,170 --> 00:59:04,080
them, I can still boost them.
I'm just getting the I'm just

890
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,990
getting the stream from YouTube.
I'm telling you, we've been

891
00:59:06,990 --> 00:59:10,650
looking at this all wrong. We
need to turn it upside down and

892
00:59:10,650 --> 00:59:13,950
say thank you very much YouTube.
That's great. Now the cool thing

893
00:59:13,950 --> 00:59:17,790
is if you feed them your RSS
feed and then it comes back into

894
00:59:17,790 --> 00:59:21,870
your feed as a as an RSS
enclosure that with recursion

895
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:29,040
but you basically have a feed
that feeds YouTube you know you

896
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,910
get something about this tells
me been looking at it all wrong.

897
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,480
And embrace embrace the free
hosting company that is YouTube

898
00:59:37,350 --> 00:59:40,530
Dave Jones: as well. This is
exactly what people did to

899
00:59:40,530 --> 00:59:45,990
SoundCloud and archive.org do to
just upload your Why don't you

900
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:48,150
just upload your stuff to there
right

901
00:59:48,210 --> 00:59:50,430
Adam Curry: that's right. Yeah,
but as we get closer Yes. And

902
00:59:50,430 --> 00:59:52,710
people still do that. I think
for

903
00:59:52,710 --> 00:59:58,740
Dave Jones: Yeah, for sure that
I don't know how you can get I

904
00:59:58,740 --> 01:00:01,800
don't know what the street if
they Do HLS or whatever he gets

905
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,310
some sort of native type of
thing? I don't care, just the

906
01:00:05,310 --> 01:00:07,950
Adam Curry: embedded player.
Yeah, I don't care that I have

907
01:00:07,950 --> 01:00:11,310
to start it by clicking on it or
tapping on it. That's fine. As

908
01:00:11,310 --> 01:00:15,960
long as long as I can, as long
as I can stream SATs. Thank you

909
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,660
very much YouTube for the free
bandwidth and free hosting.

910
01:00:19,350 --> 01:00:22,950
Dave Jones: I agree. Yes. This
is a good idea. I like this. It

911
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:23,100
was

912
01:00:23,130 --> 01:00:25,080
Adam Curry: it just hit me. It's
like why are we fighting these

913
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,310
guys? Why do we have to beg for
them to Oh, please YouTube, IP,

914
01:00:29,310 --> 01:00:32,760
take all of our information,
take a metadata, please let me

915
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,600
change the URL, just I'll throw
it into a channel. I'll throw it

916
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,510
into a channel. I don't need
your thinking RSS ingestion.

917
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:43,920
Just let me have a channel. And
then boom, I'll add those links

918
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:44,700
into my feed.

919
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,160
Dave Jones: That don't see why
that wouldn't work. As a matter

920
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,090
of fact, we should test it.

921
01:00:51,150 --> 01:00:54,780
Adam Curry: I would like to test
it. Steven Be programming

922
01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:55,290
already

923
01:00:55,740 --> 01:00:56,490
Dave Jones: done, sir. He's

924
01:00:56,490 --> 01:00:58,710
Adam Curry: already got it done
yet. Steven B

925
01:00:58,770 --> 01:01:03,390
Dave Jones: is what he beats.
Yes. I think it's I think it's

926
01:01:03,390 --> 01:01:06,090
worth I think it's worth looking
at it because it'd be flip it

927
01:01:06,090 --> 01:01:12,870
around. us use the use the free
host. Hey, why not?

928
01:01:13,650 --> 01:01:16,650
Adam Curry: I just see, Justin,
you can get the benefit of

929
01:01:16,650 --> 01:01:20,640
YouTube. You know, there's
definite benefits to YouTube if

930
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,030
you like it. If you want to play
the YouTube game, that's fine.

931
01:01:24,540 --> 01:01:26,880
And then you put right there and
every single one of your

932
01:01:26,910 --> 01:01:32,580
descriptions. Subscribe to us on
a podcast app. Yeah, did you

933
01:01:32,580 --> 01:01:36,150
find did you find us on YouTube,
click here to you know, to

934
01:01:36,270 --> 01:01:40,950
subscribe in pod verse. Click
here to subscribe and curio

935
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:44,250
Kassar, et cetera, et cetera.
And then it just you just did

936
01:01:44,250 --> 01:01:47,220
just takes you to the index or
whatever, or whatever, however

937
01:01:47,220 --> 01:01:50,040
you do that. You type it into
your app, boom, there it is

938
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,980
subscribed done. I don't think
people are gonna cry that will

939
01:01:52,980 --> 01:01:55,740
have to click on this YouTube
video. That's perfect.

940
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:01,110
Dave Jones: You go one step
further, you can say like an a

941
01:02:01,110 --> 01:02:05,700
podcast host. Sign up for a
podcast hosting. And next a,

942
01:02:06,210 --> 01:02:07,860
Adam Curry: where's your where's
your YouTube channel?

943
01:02:09,090 --> 01:02:10,800
Dave Jones: When I'm at the
YouTube channel, they suck. They

944
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:14,190
suck in the content, convert it
to mp3, and now you're in. Now

945
01:02:14,190 --> 01:02:14,970
you're Native.

946
01:02:15,060 --> 01:02:17,040
Adam Curry: All kinds of things
can be done here. But we're

947
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,550
looking at the one wrong way.
They need us more than we need

948
01:02:20,550 --> 01:02:20,940
them.

949
01:02:21,690 --> 01:02:24,900
Dave Jones: That like that is
yes. And they know it.

950
01:02:24,930 --> 01:02:27,960
Adam Curry: They know it. They'd
love to have the dedicated

951
01:02:28,020 --> 01:02:33,240
podcast listeners and viewers.
They love it. Why not? They we

952
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,720
give them free audience instead
of how can we please be a part

953
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,170
of your audience and
recommendation engine? Hey, you

954
01:02:40,170 --> 01:02:43,980
know what, I'm gonna let you
enjoy my audience for free. I'm

955
01:02:43,980 --> 01:02:46,590
not going to charge you YouTube
for free. It

956
01:02:46,590 --> 01:02:50,160
Dave Jones: struck me the other
day that I think I finally

957
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:57,630
figured out this whole what is a
podcast, you know, debate? I

958
01:02:57,630 --> 01:03:02,100
mean, the I mean, we're
obviously we know what a podcast

959
01:03:02,100 --> 01:03:04,860
is. On a technical level. It's
the notes. It's an enclosure in

960
01:03:04,860 --> 01:03:10,050
an RSS feed. But that's the on a
purely technical level. But I

961
01:03:10,050 --> 01:03:13,740
think I've finally figured out
what the confusion is amongst

962
01:03:13,740 --> 01:03:23,310
the general public. To, to the
average person. A podcast is, is

963
01:03:24,270 --> 01:03:27,600
some people talking to each
other? And microphones with

964
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:28,140
headphones?

965
01:03:28,140 --> 01:03:31,950
Adam Curry: Yes. Yes. That's the
podcast. CO

966
01:03:31,950 --> 01:03:35,820
Dave Jones: Vaughn show is is
hot cast. Yes. Not because of

967
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,820
anything other than the fact
that he has headphones on and

968
01:03:38,820 --> 01:03:43,620
he's talking to somebody into a
mic. God, what I'm what, that's

969
01:03:43,620 --> 01:03:44,820
what it is. I would love

970
01:03:44,820 --> 01:03:47,940
Adam Curry: for him to say,
yeah, subscribe to the YouTube

971
01:03:47,940 --> 01:03:54,450
channel or wherever you get your
podcasts. Seriously? Yeah.

972
01:03:55,890 --> 01:03:59,130
Dave Jones: Everything people
are wearing headphones and mics

973
01:03:59,130 --> 01:04:01,230
that are connected. They do
things because they want to be a

974
01:04:01,230 --> 01:04:01,800
podcast.

975
01:04:01,830 --> 01:04:04,350
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. There's
lots of people do fake like a

976
01:04:04,350 --> 01:04:08,280
fake podcast setting to make it
look like they're serious about

977
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,230
something or they're important
because they were interested in

978
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:14,520
a podcast is just fake. It's not
even a real podcast is the names

979
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:15,840
of those. When

980
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,360
Dave Jones: you say where do you
listen to your podcasts? It's

981
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,830
not people are think they think
in their head. Okay, what

982
01:04:22,830 --> 01:04:27,330
podcast or listen to? Oh, yeah,
here's in a, they think about

983
01:04:27,540 --> 01:04:30,690
all the shows where there's
people talking into microphones

984
01:04:30,690 --> 01:04:33,300
with headphones on. And they're
like, I think I see a lot of

985
01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:36,540
that on on YouTube. Yeah,
YouTube. That's what it is.

986
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,020
Like, there's no, there's lots
of things that are podcasts like

987
01:04:40,020 --> 01:04:44,010
NPR shows. Those are those are
podcasts. Yes. Yeah. But they

988
01:04:44,010 --> 01:04:47,400
don't have they don't have
people talking into microphones

989
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:51,060
with headphones on. You can't
see it can't it's not a part.

990
01:04:51,060 --> 01:04:55,530
Yeah. Exactly. Because I think
and I think Joe Rogan is the

991
01:04:55,530 --> 01:04:59,700
reason for that. Yeah, Joe Rogan
is the reason people associate

992
01:04:59,700 --> 01:05:03,420
mint Really? Yes, dudes talking
into microphones with headphones

993
01:05:03,420 --> 01:05:05,070
on with podcasts.

994
01:05:05,340 --> 01:05:09,540
Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean, I'd
like to I'd like to work on

995
01:05:09,540 --> 01:05:13,680
this. I think this would be
fantastic. I mean, we were going

996
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,860
to this whole exercise which is
kind of funny in a way. This

997
01:05:16,860 --> 01:05:21,510
whole exercise with Ainsley
Costello and just loud. And I'm,

998
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:25,230
by the way, I love you Dolby
Das, I love you, blueberry, you

999
01:05:25,230 --> 01:05:28,590
guys are my heroes, for the
first time in my life. And I've

1000
01:05:28,590 --> 01:05:32,460
been doing this for 30 years,
that I don't have to be involved

1001
01:05:32,460 --> 01:05:35,970
in getting something set up at a
venue and people get me

1002
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,660
explaining to people how things
work and RSS feeds. They're

1003
01:05:39,660 --> 01:05:44,580
sending all this emotion that
was a lot of Mao information, I

1004
01:05:44,580 --> 01:05:48,690
guess is the right term, some
view about how this works and

1005
01:05:48,690 --> 01:05:53,880
how the podcasting 2.0 part of
streaming SATs works. And there

1006
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:58,290
was I was just praying that
whole please can we get this set

1007
01:05:58,290 --> 01:06:03,390
up? So the apps that do video
can actually do video, and

1008
01:06:03,390 --> 01:06:06,870
stream SATs and take booster
grams, I was just praying and

1009
01:06:06,900 --> 01:06:11,160
these guys jumped in blueberries
on site in Minneapolis. I mean,

1010
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,880
my heart, my heart is full that
you guys are doing this. I love

1011
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,140
that, then, you know there's so
much went into finding the right

1012
01:06:19,140 --> 01:06:24,240
place to stream I'm like,
honestly, me No, this is well,

1013
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:29,130
no, I, I disagree with using
YouTube. I like using peer tube.

1014
01:06:30,060 --> 01:06:33,180
But if you just want to stream
it on YouTube, that should be

1015
01:06:33,180 --> 01:06:37,650
totally possible in the lit
environment. It's totally

1016
01:06:37,650 --> 01:06:42,900
possible. Just put the YouTube
link and here in closure on in

1017
01:06:42,900 --> 01:06:45,750
your lit tag. And Bob's your
uncle.

1018
01:06:46,830 --> 01:06:49,260
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's just that
nobody, it's just that everybody

1019
01:06:49,260 --> 01:06:51,060
would choke on the HTML

1020
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,150
Adam Curry: code because no
one's set up for it. Because

1021
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:58,170
they're not set up for it. But I
mean, why not? It's just another

1022
01:06:58,170 --> 01:06:59,250
enclosure type.

1023
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,960
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's where
I'm at. I'm in time, I will

1024
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:08,040
Adam Curry: stream video from
this show. But from my, from my

1025
01:07:08,070 --> 01:07:11,550
Dave Jones: from my hand from my
end. That is boy, no, you're not

1026
01:07:11,550 --> 01:07:12,720
going to do that. If if

1027
01:07:12,750 --> 01:07:17,010
Adam Curry: a podcast app sets
up a YouTube Live, you know,

1028
01:07:17,010 --> 01:07:22,170
include as an enclosure, I will
publish this as an enclosure on

1029
01:07:22,170 --> 01:07:26,040
the lit tag. I will have
multiple of course, but so that

1030
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,890
people can watch me do the show.

1031
01:07:29,310 --> 01:07:32,160
Dave Jones: Do I get if this
happens? Do I get to criticize

1032
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:34,320
you for being distracted? Of
course,

1033
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,450
Adam Curry: because the show
will suck it will devolve into

1034
01:07:36,450 --> 01:07:36,630
it

1035
01:07:39,660 --> 01:07:42,840
Dave Jones: will devolve into
Rails

1036
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:49,980
Adam Curry: I'm um, it just
seems like we're looking at this

1037
01:07:49,980 --> 01:07:53,730
the wrong way. We have some
religious belief, quote unquote,

1038
01:07:53,730 --> 01:07:58,590
religious belief that it has to
be a downloadable thing. No, it

1039
01:07:58,590 --> 01:08:00,780
doesn't. It doesn't it

1040
01:08:00,780 --> 01:08:02,610
Dave Jones: won't mean
especially not for live. I mean,

1041
01:08:02,610 --> 01:08:04,650
that's, that's never
downloadable. Anyway, some of

1042
01:08:04,650 --> 01:08:07,470
Adam Curry: the biggest
companies and organizations in

1043
01:08:07,470 --> 01:08:13,740
the world use YouTube as their
video provider. And they embed

1044
01:08:13,740 --> 01:08:16,770
videos all over their site for
their conferences, all this

1045
01:08:16,770 --> 01:08:18,150
stuff all the time.

1046
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:23,009
Dave Jones: Now I will get
religious on it. I will get sort

1047
01:08:23,009 --> 01:08:29,249
of religious on the downloadable
part because I fight a lot with

1048
01:08:29,249 --> 01:08:34,289
streaming. Some there's some
aspect of my life where I walk

1049
01:08:34,289 --> 01:08:39,749
through stairwells and elevator
elevator elevators and I go in

1050
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:45,449
and out of Wi Fi range to such a
such a degree that apps the

1051
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,779
stream only and don't download
just they just fall down all the

1052
01:08:48,779 --> 01:08:52,949
time, and it's very aggravated.
Sure. So the downloadable part

1053
01:08:52,949 --> 01:08:53,729
to me is pretty

1054
01:08:53,729 --> 01:08:57,089
Adam Curry: important. But that
okay, but are you actually

1055
01:08:57,089 --> 01:09:00,029
watching in the elevator? Or are
you listening in the elevator

1056
01:09:00,419 --> 01:09:06,089
listening use the use the mp3
stream, the mp3 feed? If that's

1057
01:09:06,149 --> 01:09:09,209
is that simple, more use the
alternative feed whatever,

1058
01:09:09,209 --> 01:09:13,409
whatever, whatever the app goes
with. I'm with you mean doesn't

1059
01:09:13,409 --> 01:09:17,729
happen very often to me, in
fact, very infrequently Do I Do

1060
01:09:17,729 --> 01:09:23,219
I have an interruption in my
stream? Because I'm an older guy

1061
01:09:23,219 --> 01:09:25,109
now. So sometimes the stream is
interrupted.

1062
01:09:25,860 --> 01:09:27,390
Dave Jones: You need medic
medication.

1063
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:34,319
Adam Curry: Back to Pfizer blue.
It's it just Oh, that's

1064
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:38,249
interesting. Ice Cube soup says
this opens up the possibility to

1065
01:09:38,249 --> 01:09:42,419
adding value for value to live
Twitch streams. Yes. More even

1066
01:09:42,449 --> 01:09:46,469
X. I mean, you still get what
you pay for. Let's be honest

1067
01:09:46,469 --> 01:09:49,619
about it. You can be deep
platformed you can be all kinds

1068
01:09:49,619 --> 01:09:54,059
of bad stuff can happen to you.
But why fight it? It's there.

1069
01:09:54,059 --> 01:09:57,269
It's free. These guys literally
want you to use it. Or why

1070
01:09:57,269 --> 01:09:59,609
shouldn't I have an embedded
dip? I don't think Twitter

1071
01:09:59,609 --> 01:10:04,529
doesn't beds. But, you know,
like, it's crazy not to do it,

1072
01:10:05,129 --> 01:10:08,669
put it in the podcast app. I
mean, think about what you can

1073
01:10:08,699 --> 01:10:12,269
add as an as an audience. I
think as an app developer, I

1074
01:10:12,269 --> 01:10:18,209
think you can add a lot of a lot
of content a lot of users, I

1075
01:10:18,209 --> 01:10:21,899
really do. And, you know, we
just run our value for value

1076
01:10:21,899 --> 01:10:23,069
right alongside with that.

1077
01:10:23,580 --> 01:10:25,320
Dave Jones: Well, Soundhound
already does this. Do you know

1078
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:31,350
that Soundhound No, I don't
think yes. Sound sound Hound is

1079
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:35,460
the app that I think started
this whole thing of being able

1080
01:10:35,460 --> 01:10:39,300
to you open the app, tap the
listen button, and it hears the

1081
01:10:39,300 --> 01:10:41,700
song and tells you which one
what it is. Oh,

1082
01:10:41,700 --> 01:10:43,950
Adam Curry: yeah, yeah. Yeah, of
course. I know. This. I'm

1083
01:10:43,950 --> 01:10:45,750
looking at now. Yes. Yeah.

1084
01:10:46,020 --> 01:10:50,250
Dave Jones: So the Soundhound
does this already. It? It will.

1085
01:10:50,730 --> 01:10:52,800
It'll tell you what the song is.
And they'll say do you want to

1086
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:57,960
listen to it? Play in it plays
the YouTube version of the song

1087
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:02,910
in the in their app as an as an
embed. There you go. So clearly,

1088
01:11:02,910 --> 01:11:07,080
these these small these
embeddable web views are

1089
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:13,230
possible. Yes. I think this as
an alternate enclosure. Yeah.

1090
01:11:14,730 --> 01:11:16,860
Adam Curry: Yeah. In fact,
ultimate enclosure, perfect

1091
01:11:16,860 --> 01:11:18,180
weight and perfect way to test
it.

1092
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,010
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. All
right. And then you just have

1093
01:11:23,010 --> 01:11:26,100
the right you have the right to
a man type. And then we can be

1094
01:11:26,100 --> 01:11:27,120
we'll be done by the end of the
day,

1095
01:11:27,150 --> 01:11:29,760
Adam Curry: and then solve the
biggest problem. Yeah, YouTube,

1096
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:33,780
the other podcast, as long as
it's in my podcast app. So what

1097
01:11:33,780 --> 01:11:36,780
is a podcast? Something that
shows up in my podcast app?

1098
01:11:37,590 --> 01:11:40,050
Dave Jones: There's your Yes.
There's your Yeah, that's the

1099
01:11:40,050 --> 01:11:45,090
answer. That's the answer. So
YouTube. Yeah. As a YouTube

1100
01:11:45,090 --> 01:11:48,570
video, some shows up on YouTube.
A podcast is something shows up

1101
01:11:48,570 --> 01:11:50,340
in my podcasts Exactly.

1102
01:11:50,460 --> 01:11:51,480
Adam Curry: solves that problem.

1103
01:11:52,380 --> 01:11:57,270
Dave Jones: I mean, it let's,
let's face reality here. But,

1104
01:11:57,450 --> 01:12:04,650
you know, I think we timed the
podcast, podcast index. Well, I

1105
01:12:04,650 --> 01:12:08,760
Adam Curry: mean, obviously,
that was us. was,

1106
01:12:09,810 --> 01:12:12,840
Dave Jones: I think, I think the
timing was was was fantastic,

1107
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:17,310
for many reasons. But but one is
because it's obviously the

1108
01:12:17,310 --> 01:12:21,300
podcast apps are hurting, like,
with Castro is shutting down.

1109
01:12:22,980 --> 01:12:26,490
Adam Curry: Well, we've we have
thrown Castro wasn't using value

1110
01:12:26,490 --> 01:12:28,260
for value. Yeah,

1111
01:12:28,590 --> 01:12:32,910
Dave Jones: yeah. And the pod
podcast app, the podcast, app

1112
01:12:32,910 --> 01:12:40,050
space is shrinking. And I think
there's clear clearly anything

1113
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,640
that can be done to that's what
our mandate is, our mandate is

1114
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:50,280
to help podcast apps. And
anything that that does, that is

1115
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,880
fair game. And I think we're, I
mean, that makes a lot of sense.

1116
01:12:54,570 --> 01:12:57,570
Because then you got, you know,
immediately you have a different

1117
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,960
bill. Okay, I want to watch
this. There's this. This pot,

1118
01:13:00,990 --> 01:13:05,190
you know, this quote unquote,
podcast that is on YouTube that

1119
01:13:05,190 --> 01:13:08,640
I did, there's no feed for
anywhere. I can't find it any on

1120
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,940
my podcast app, because it's
only on YouTube. Well, now it's

1121
01:13:11,940 --> 01:13:16,470
a podcast. Now you can see it in
your podcast app. Like a lot

1122
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:20,430
right alongside everything that
actually is a podcast. Yeah.

1123
01:13:20,700 --> 01:13:23,070
Adam Curry: Been. I should
probably go through a few

1124
01:13:23,070 --> 01:13:27,960
booster grants because people
are responding very, very

1125
01:13:28,020 --> 01:13:34,200
passionately. So we'll start
with blueberry 11,111 I'm

1126
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,840
positively stoked for the just
loud and Ainslie show seen a lot

1127
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:42,510
of shows in my time, like this.
A lot. This one. This is one of

1128
01:13:42,510 --> 01:13:45,930
them getting pumped for guar. I
feel a wellspring of joy and

1129
01:13:45,930 --> 01:13:48,570
valley brewing. I'll be
rebroadcasting the live show

1130
01:13:48,570 --> 01:13:52,020
through BTS B 40s. feeds and
would encourage other lit

1131
01:13:52,020 --> 01:13:57,210
enabled shows to consider the
same. Let me see Sam Sethi.

1132
01:13:57,420 --> 01:14:01,170
Dave, how can apps download
episodes and still say still

1133
01:14:01,170 --> 01:14:05,850
takes and still take stream
SATs? We won't know how much you

1134
01:14:05,850 --> 01:14:09,090
listen to until you reconnect
while offline. You may listen to

1135
01:14:09,090 --> 01:14:12,210
60 minutes of a podcast but have
no money when you reconnect in

1136
01:14:12,210 --> 01:14:14,790
your wallet to pay for
listening. Well, that

1137
01:14:14,820 --> 01:14:18,420
Dave Jones: that's already been
solved. Yeah. Because they they

1138
01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:22,260
they keep state you know, while
you're listening, if stacks

1139
01:14:22,260 --> 01:14:25,080
those those transactions up and
then the next time you come

1140
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:29,160
online, it batches those things.
And since those labs already do

1141
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:29,460
that,

1142
01:14:29,730 --> 01:14:33,300
Adam Curry: by the way, Steven B
says Sorry, guys. 1234 Or five

1143
01:14:33,300 --> 01:14:36,360
sets, um, deer hunting this
weekend, maybe next weekend.

1144
01:14:38,670 --> 01:14:43,200
Okay, all right, then. Well, I
will I'll take a little bit of

1145
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,320
venison from you. I'd rather
have venison than code this

1146
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:52,800
week. Just even be. Anyway, it
seems like something we should

1147
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:57,240
just do. And I agree with you.
Our mission is to help podcast

1148
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:02,310
apps. But I think we've done
pretty well. So So far, and this

1149
01:15:02,340 --> 01:15:05,430
solves the biggest problem. What
is a podcast? It's in a podcast

1150
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:09,150
app, what's a podcast app? Here
you go. It says podcast app

1151
01:15:09,150 --> 01:15:12,300
right on the tin. Alright. And
that means you can get all forms

1152
01:15:12,300 --> 01:15:16,020
of media in your podcast app.
It's episodic, that will be the

1153
01:15:16,020 --> 01:15:18,870
fairest thing to say, as long as
it's episodic, it's a podcast,

1154
01:15:18,900 --> 01:15:23,190
and I can get it in my podcast
app. The next thing we discussed

1155
01:15:23,220 --> 01:15:30,180
last week, in the Fed ification
of the index verification of

1156
01:15:30,210 --> 01:15:38,790
podcasting 2.0, we discussed DNS
as a possibility for adding guid

1157
01:15:38,820 --> 01:15:43,080
and etc, identifiers. To which
of course, everybody said the

1158
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:48,360
following. I mentioned that 5000
years ago.

1159
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:51,720
Dave Jones: There was a lot of
that.

1160
01:15:52,110 --> 01:15:55,500
Adam Curry: A lot of that. Yeah,
I know. I got it. You know,

1161
01:15:55,530 --> 01:15:59,160
we're not pretending like we
invented something here. But you

1162
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:02,310
know, there's a time it's all
about timing. I have I have come

1163
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:09,210
up. I invented YouTube. 10 years
too early. Okay. So it's not how

1164
01:16:09,210 --> 01:16:09,780
it works.

1165
01:16:10,110 --> 01:16:12,900
Dave Jones: We all invented lots
of things. But

1166
01:16:13,950 --> 01:16:17,370
Adam Curry: Alex gates turned me
on to something, which I think

1167
01:16:17,370 --> 01:16:22,590
you saw as well. Or maybe not. P
car. Have you seen P car? PDA?

1168
01:16:22,650 --> 01:16:23,790
AR AR?

1169
01:16:24,450 --> 01:16:27,990
Dave Jones: Yeah, I saw. I saw
that. And I'm struggling to

1170
01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:29,520
understand it. Okay,

1171
01:16:29,550 --> 01:16:33,480
Adam Curry: well, I got it right
away. And it's working perfectly

1172
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:43,380
for me. So, PK, what's the
what's the URL? Okay, p k a. r

1173
01:16:43,380 --> 01:16:47,490
r.org. I'm gonna put this into
the into the chat here. Yes,

1174
01:16:47,490 --> 01:16:54,570
Eric PPAP, Cor p car.org. Now,
if you know I generated a P car,

1175
01:16:54,630 --> 01:16:58,440
and this goes to DHT. So it's
distributed hash table, I guess

1176
01:16:58,440 --> 01:17:02,130
that's, you know, magic space in
that space. So if you Kademlia

1177
01:17:02,130 --> 01:17:07,020
is what that is. So if you go to
I just pasted my predetermined.

1178
01:17:08,010 --> 01:17:11,850
What is that call? What would
you call that? Gets the D ID or

1179
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:16,380
get the ID if you paste that in
and hit resolve. What does it

1180
01:17:16,380 --> 01:17:16,920
show you

1181
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:20,580
Dave Jones: wait and pasting
this into a browser? No, it

1182
01:17:20,580 --> 01:17:22,710
Adam Curry: was first. Yeah.
First you go to app dot p

1183
01:17:22,710 --> 01:17:29,610
car.org. Yeah. And then you see
what I posted in the post. Copy

1184
01:17:29,610 --> 01:17:34,110
that key K colon, and then you
go to the resolve tab, you paste

1185
01:17:34,110 --> 01:17:39,450
that. Paste it in? And then what
is the chewy? Okay. Let's see.

1186
01:17:39,750 --> 01:17:41,880
Resistant name and a value pair.

1187
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,210
Was it not working? Works for
me?

1188
01:17:51,570 --> 01:17:57,000
Dave Jones: Did I paste it room?
Cause Oh, what is that? Okay.

1189
01:17:57,030 --> 01:18:00,300
Well, it does who had technical
difficulties on the site? Oh,

1190
01:18:00,300 --> 01:18:05,220
oh, it came with Mr. character
in the copying out of IRC which

1191
01:18:05,220 --> 01:18:06,030
is great.

1192
01:18:06,900 --> 01:18:09,600
Adam Curry: It's, it's not high
tech. Okay. Yes.

1193
01:18:10,260 --> 01:18:12,540
Dave Jones: Why am I getting
this weird thing? Okay. What?

1194
01:18:14,190 --> 01:18:17,400
Adam Curry: You're going to the
resolve tab, right? Yeah.

1195
01:18:18,630 --> 01:18:21,540
Dave Jones: Okay, here. Here we
go. No agenda podcast. Yeah. And

1196
01:18:21,540 --> 01:18:22,200
there's the there's.

1197
01:18:23,370 --> 01:18:27,930
Adam Curry: So I mean, that's a
very, I can paste that into a

1198
01:18:27,930 --> 01:18:33,510
feed. And that is now my unique
ID for the no agenda podcast.

1199
01:18:35,610 --> 01:18:39,360
This is DNS is exactly the same
thing. Okay,

1200
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:40,980
Dave Jones: the part I was
struggling to understand. Yeah,

1201
01:18:40,980 --> 01:18:44,610
the part I was struggling to
understand is the D Kademlia.

1202
01:18:44,610 --> 01:18:50,700
Part, the DHT space. Because
that fits in, like, what this is

1203
01:18:50,700 --> 01:18:56,520
fits in? Well, because we're the
vision that we had is is a DHTs

1204
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:02,010
space for the index. So I mean,
this this, and we're using live

1205
01:19:02,010 --> 01:19:03,300
p2p. Yes.

1206
01:19:03,300 --> 01:19:07,590
Adam Curry: And it has it runs
on relays. So you know,

1207
01:19:07,890 --> 01:19:12,180
obviously we need to we need to
have relays but

1208
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:17,460
Dave Jones: Well, I think the
relays if I'm the the length

1209
01:19:17,790 --> 01:19:21,300
that I got to with my
understanding of this of of

1210
01:19:21,300 --> 01:19:27,990
Kademlia was that the relay is
that that is the DHT space that

1211
01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:34,770
bit torrent nodes use. So I
think, Okay, this is the this is

1212
01:19:34,770 --> 01:19:38,880
the part I did not understand is
I don't know if that means that

1213
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:45,030
all Bit Torrent nodes would be
inherent P core compatible

1214
01:19:45,570 --> 01:19:46,350
nodes.

1215
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:48,450
Adam Curry: This I don't know,
but I have no

1216
01:19:49,110 --> 01:19:51,210
Dave Jones: that's where I
that's where I got lost is

1217
01:19:51,210 --> 01:19:58,710
because it's the same. It's the
same protocol. So it's, it's

1218
01:19:58,710 --> 01:20:02,670
possible that The Bitcoin that
sound the Bitcoin, the

1219
01:20:02,700 --> 01:20:08,580
BitTorrent network is, is an a,
you know, like, this is an

1220
01:20:08,580 --> 01:20:13,050
overlay on top of that. And if
that's the case, then I mean,

1221
01:20:13,050 --> 01:20:14,280
that's a robust thing.

1222
01:20:14,610 --> 01:20:19,590
Adam Curry: I think it's
someone's, please stop DMing me

1223
01:20:19,590 --> 01:20:28,170
on IRC. When people do that,
it's, it looks very robust. And

1224
01:20:28,170 --> 01:20:32,940
if it comes from Alice gates,
it's already pre approved. Yeah,

1225
01:20:32,940 --> 01:20:34,650
Dave Jones: right, it comes with
the seal. And

1226
01:20:34,650 --> 01:20:36,990
Adam Curry: you can add record,
you can add multiple records

1227
01:20:36,990 --> 01:20:40,410
into your key. So you can have
all kinds of interesting stuff

1228
01:20:40,410 --> 01:20:44,670
in there. And then anybody can
run a deep this DHT relay.

1229
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:49,500
Clearly, it's working. They do
have a caveat here that says,

1230
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,480
you need to republish your
records every hour or so

1231
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:57,540
otherwise, there'll be dropped
from DHT. While I haven't

1232
01:20:57,570 --> 01:21:00,450
republished anything, and it's
still working after several

1233
01:21:00,450 --> 01:21:03,810
days, so I'm not sure about that
part of it. But it's not like

1234
01:21:03,810 --> 01:21:07,980
that couldn't be couldn't be
done. Now that we can't figure

1235
01:21:07,980 --> 01:21:13,500
that part out. So it just seemed
like, Wow, what a beautiful way

1236
01:21:13,500 --> 01:21:17,520
to have a distributed podcast
DNS for all of that stuff that

1237
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:18,630
we've been talking about.

1238
01:21:19,470 --> 01:21:23,670
Dave Jones: For sure. I really
need to know where the nodes

1239
01:21:23,670 --> 01:21:26,970
are. Because if we have to
bootstrap these nodes, that's a

1240
01:21:26,970 --> 01:21:30,600
diff. It's not a it's not a deal
killer. It's just that we like

1241
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:36,240
that's a pretty big thing to
know. C says native native

1242
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:39,450
application can directly query
and verify signatures signed

1243
01:21:39,450 --> 01:21:44,490
records from DHT from the DHT.
If they are not behind Nat, was

1244
01:21:45,300 --> 01:21:45,570
check

1245
01:21:45,570 --> 01:21:48,750
Adam Curry: this out existing
applications on aware of P car,

1246
01:21:48,990 --> 01:21:54,930
make normal DNS queries over
HTTPS to P car servers. Whoa,

1247
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:57,210
whoa,

1248
01:21:58,110 --> 01:22:00,660
Dave Jones: this is P car, we'll
use mainline DHT as the Overlay

1249
01:22:00,660 --> 01:22:06,390
Network. Specifically bid 44 for
storing femoral arbitrary data.

1250
01:22:06,420 --> 01:22:07,320
44

1251
01:22:07,350 --> 01:22:09,240
Adam Curry: Oh my God, that's
great. What does it mean?

1252
01:22:11,430 --> 01:22:13,680
Dave Jones: That's your favorite
bit. Of

1253
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:17,280
Adam Curry: all the BEPS 44 is
the one that just tickles me

1254
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:18,420
pink. Yeah,

1255
01:22:18,420 --> 01:22:21,120
Dave Jones: cuz here's this is
mainline DHT is the name given

1256
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,480
to the Kademlia based can
distributed hash table used by

1257
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:27,420
Bit Torrent clients to find
peers via the BitTorrent

1258
01:22:27,420 --> 01:22:28,110
protocol. It's

1259
01:22:28,110 --> 01:22:30,690
Adam Curry: a bit torn out is
the BitTorrent hash base. You're

1260
01:22:30,690 --> 01:22:32,550
right. Yeah. So

1261
01:22:33,420 --> 01:22:35,490
Dave Jones: I guess that's,
that's really my question is I

1262
01:22:35,490 --> 01:22:40,260
need to figure out if that means
that these that that's where

1263
01:22:40,260 --> 01:22:43,440
this, these if that's where all
this these key value pairs are

1264
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:45,240
being stored? Yes,

1265
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:49,410
Adam Curry: I think so. It looks
like it. Okay. Yes. It's, it

1266
01:22:49,410 --> 01:22:53,100
refers to bet five. She remember
that one. Okay.

1267
01:22:53,730 --> 01:22:56,940
Dave Jones: Everybody remembers
that? She was crazy.

1268
01:22:58,440 --> 01:23:01,230
Adam Curry: That five min good
times with bet five days.

1269
01:23:04,260 --> 01:23:05,610
Dave Jones: That chick was nuts.

1270
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:10,980
Adam Curry: Remember, she told
us about BEP? Six? Oh,

1271
01:23:12,180 --> 01:23:17,580
Dave Jones: that's right. Eric.
off the hook. Yeah, no, this is

1272
01:23:17,610 --> 01:23:20,430
this is good. This is this is
good. Because we writing

1273
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,220
Adam Curry: this guy has gotten
me excited when I was able to do

1274
01:23:23,220 --> 01:23:26,220
this myself on a web page, like
Okay, I just created this, I

1275
01:23:26,220 --> 01:23:31,290
just basically created a whole
podcast DNS record, which can be

1276
01:23:31,290 --> 01:23:37,680
referenced over DNS for a non
for non BEP, 44. Client,

1277
01:23:37,710 --> 01:23:38,670
whatever that means.

1278
01:23:39,900 --> 01:23:43,650
Dave Jones: When so whatever
happened with with the IPFS

1279
01:23:43,650 --> 01:23:47,670
streaming, that that was falling
down the last time.

1280
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,040
Adam Curry: Now I'm still on
IPFS.

1281
01:23:50,190 --> 01:23:52,710
Dave Jones: We had that there.
Were there. There were hiccups.

1282
01:23:52,710 --> 01:23:53,040
There

1283
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:56,400
Adam Curry: were issues. Yes. It
was course was a core issue that

1284
01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:00,570
was introduced, then it was at
was about thought a lot about

1285
01:24:00,570 --> 01:24:06,000
IPFS podcasting.net, which I
still use. It no longer has that

1286
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:09,390
long delay before it starts it
there is a little bit of a

1287
01:24:09,390 --> 01:24:13,500
delay. Been maybe a couple
seconds sometimes depending on,

1288
01:24:13,860 --> 01:24:18,810
you know how many nodes etc. It
works fine. The weakness, of

1289
01:24:18,810 --> 01:24:23,370
course, is IPFS podcasting.
dotnet no offense, Cameron. If

1290
01:24:23,370 --> 01:24:25,830
that goes down, the whole thing
falls apart.

1291
01:24:26,430 --> 01:24:29,490
Dave Jones: Sure. So because
that's the router.

1292
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:33,180
Adam Curry: That's the I mean,
and I still admit, obviously, it

1293
01:24:33,180 --> 01:24:37,530
seems to be difficult for apps
to implement for IPFS nodes in

1294
01:24:37,530 --> 01:24:42,090
their apps. So we're using
gateways. Right now. All IPFS

1295
01:24:42,090 --> 01:24:46,680
podcasting dotnet goes through a
gateway that I pay for, which is

1296
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:48,330
fine. That's

1297
01:24:48,330 --> 01:24:49,860
Dave Jones: what rss.com was.
Was

1298
01:24:50,190 --> 01:24:52,470
Adam Curry: there. Maybe they
may be doing some round robin.

1299
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:53,880
Yes. I

1300
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,610
Dave Jones: think Alberto was
was right. Yes. Yeah. Big node.

1301
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:57,240
Yeah, but

1302
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:00,090
Adam Curry: at least it's not
going through ipfs.io Oh

1303
01:25:00,090 --> 01:25:04,230
anymore, that's the main thing.
So, and boy, I'll tell you how

1304
01:25:04,230 --> 01:25:08,370
many emails I now I'm starting
to notice, like, I'll hover over

1305
01:25:08,370 --> 01:25:11,280
the link that they want me to
click some, some, some kind of

1306
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:16,230
spam stuff and right there
ipfs.io Now this is used for all

1307
01:25:16,230 --> 01:25:21,210
kinds of nefarious stuff. So on
our gateway only podcasts work

1308
01:25:21,210 --> 01:25:24,660
only those MIME types, you know,
so that's, that's the Mark did a

1309
01:25:24,660 --> 01:25:25,680
great job on that.

1310
01:25:27,270 --> 01:25:31,380
Dave Jones: It was a wish mark,
it would be great. If Mark could

1311
01:25:31,380 --> 01:25:34,050
write up what he did. He

1312
01:25:34,050 --> 01:25:36,330
Adam Curry: actually has written
it up, I just got to ask him to

1313
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:39,570
publish it somewhere. I've seen
a write up be posted some stuff

1314
01:25:39,750 --> 01:25:40,740
on social about it.

1315
01:25:42,180 --> 01:25:44,730
Dave Jones: Because we yeah, we
I would love to see what his

1316
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,430
what his final architecture was.
And so that it could just be

1317
01:25:47,430 --> 01:25:49,710
sort of wrapped up and
replicated to who else would

1318
01:25:49,770 --> 01:25:53,790
wants to run it? Sure. Yeah. Cuz
because that I mean, ultimately,

1319
01:25:53,880 --> 01:26:00,840
the if we, if we push into this
to this DHT idea, that could

1320
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,950
also you know, function in that
way. I mean, you you could the

1321
01:26:04,980 --> 01:26:09,210
the enclosures themselves could
be also, you know, references to

1322
01:26:09,210 --> 01:26:13,440
a specific gateway or whatever.
And you would lessen the, the

1323
01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:16,980
dependence on IVF you know, DFS
podcasting.

1324
01:26:18,060 --> 01:26:28,650
Adam Curry: So this DHT over DNS
is sexy stuff. Sexy? Yeah. So

1325
01:26:28,650 --> 01:26:35,730
you can resolve one of these PK
DHT keys over a DNS query.

1326
01:26:38,190 --> 01:26:43,230
That's Han. Poking, we need to
dive it I mean, this obviously

1327
01:26:43,230 --> 01:26:46,050
unit, you need to take a look at
this, you need to think about it

1328
01:26:46,050 --> 01:26:48,480
and I'm sure Alex gates will
have all kinds of ideas, but it

1329
01:26:48,480 --> 01:26:51,960
just seemed like this is a great
way to start fortifying a lot of

1330
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:57,030
stuff to start being able to
push some of those main things

1331
01:26:57,030 --> 01:27:01,680
that we don't want to be the
resolver for such as Gu IDs, you

1332
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:06,240
know, person identifiers, etc,
etc. It seems like this is

1333
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:09,450
really robust. Like it's been,
you know, the BitTorrent stuff

1334
01:27:09,450 --> 01:27:10,950
has been around for a long time.

1335
01:27:12,750 --> 01:27:16,140
Dave Jones: Yeah, it has Yeah,
this says this must be the case

1336
01:27:16,140 --> 01:27:20,340
because it says this 10 million
node DHT with a 15 year track

1337
01:27:20,340 --> 01:27:23,070
record. Yeah, that's exactly it.
Nothing else would come close to

1338
01:27:23,070 --> 01:27:23,880
that I wanted to not be

1339
01:27:24,330 --> 01:27:27,060
Adam Curry: and you know, add
DNS on top of that, which has a

1340
01:27:27,060 --> 01:27:32,430
lot of, you know, assuredness as
to validity is beautiful.

1341
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,690
Dave Jones: Yeah, like that.
Yeah, I like that a lot. I

1342
01:27:36,690 --> 01:27:42,030
wonder. And he's trying to get
Alex back on. Talk about no rim

1343
01:27:42,060 --> 01:27:47,820
brainstorm some stuff. Yeah. I'm
not doing my job as a booker

1344
01:27:47,820 --> 01:27:48,870
very well, no,

1345
01:27:48,870 --> 01:27:53,130
Adam Curry: no, you suck. You're
terrible, sir. No. And by the

1346
01:27:53,130 --> 01:27:56,340
way, I wanted to mention that
Andrew Gromit has now the Andrew

1347
01:27:56,340 --> 01:28:00,840
grommet is putting together all
this progressive web app stuff

1348
01:28:01,230 --> 01:28:04,800
on his GitHub and he posts about
it on on podcast index dot

1349
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,760
social, this it he's building
this kind of like as a fallback

1350
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:12,660
for when it all goes to crap and
the apps are no longer possible.

1351
01:28:12,780 --> 01:28:15,150
And he's it's pretty impressive
what he's building. He's putting

1352
01:28:15,150 --> 01:28:17,910
together a whole bunch of
libraries got IPFS alternative

1353
01:28:17,910 --> 01:28:21,270
closure, not put into it, that
he's resolved a lot of the

1354
01:28:21,780 --> 01:28:25,530
progressive webapp issues. So if
you're looking for it, Andrew

1355
01:28:25,530 --> 01:28:30,210
Grumman has got it going on.
He's kind of our, you know, he's

1356
01:28:30,210 --> 01:28:32,400
like our ripcord. He's he's
building

1357
01:28:33,030 --> 01:28:34,710
Dave Jones: it break glass,
break

1358
01:28:34,710 --> 01:28:36,810
Adam Curry: break glass in case
of emergency. I really

1359
01:28:36,810 --> 01:28:40,110
appreciate that. And you saw the
orbit DB stuff, right? I'm just

1360
01:28:40,110 --> 01:28:43,620
bringing I did yeah. Yeah, I
did. So that's that is that may

1361
01:28:43,620 --> 01:28:47,310
be something viable to
distribute the whole index? It's

1362
01:28:47,340 --> 01:28:50,820
Dave Jones: it's possible, as I
say that usually the issue with

1363
01:28:50,820 --> 01:28:55,890
most of those distributed
databases is that they are, like

1364
01:28:55,890 --> 01:28:59,790
it said, eventually consistent,
which is basically all no SQL

1365
01:28:59,790 --> 01:29:03,480
databases are eventually
consistent as well. That's not

1366
01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:07,350
that's not something that we
could just shift the database to

1367
01:29:07,380 --> 01:29:10,380
know that we re architected to
live on that. Yeah, because

1368
01:29:10,470 --> 01:29:15,000
eventual consistence negates the
possibility of having a table

1369
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:21,420
relationships. Because the
relationships break. Like you

1370
01:29:21,420 --> 01:29:24,450
can't have a four, you can't
have a foreign key if the remote

1371
01:29:24,450 --> 01:29:28,260
value doesn't exist. So that's
it's just a re architecture that

1372
01:29:28,260 --> 01:29:31,590
would have to happen. And I'm
not I'm definitely not opposed

1373
01:29:31,590 --> 01:29:32,670
to doing that at all. Oh,

1374
01:29:32,670 --> 01:29:34,620
Adam Curry: we got I think we
have other stuff to do first.

1375
01:29:35,070 --> 01:29:35,580
Well, I

1376
01:29:35,580 --> 01:29:40,740
Dave Jones: think the hold back
on that would be we would need

1377
01:29:40,740 --> 01:29:45,570
to architecture that based on
what the interface would be. So

1378
01:29:45,570 --> 01:29:50,580
if the interface is going to be
DHT or something like something

1379
01:29:50,580 --> 01:29:55,380
along those lines. Because,
okay, once you do that, here's

1380
01:29:55,380 --> 01:29:59,550
what I'm trying to say. Once you
do that you have to have you've

1381
01:29:59,550 --> 01:30:04,020
essentially entered the same
problem space as IPFS. Right,

1382
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:09,300
you now need you need a you need
a gateway into that thing. So

1383
01:30:09,330 --> 01:30:13,890
the gateway, is it going to be
HTTP? I mean, the best probably

1384
01:30:13,890 --> 01:30:17,340
you need that. So we'll use,
we'd have to have gateways,

1385
01:30:17,340 --> 01:30:20,640
essentially, you know, you have
our gateway nodes to get into

1386
01:30:21,060 --> 01:30:26,370
whatever this thing is. It's no
longer is no longer a machine

1387
01:30:26,850 --> 01:30:32,640
running, running a SQL database,
and AST and an API and HTTP

1388
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:40,530
front end, it's now it's now a
hash. A big flat file. Yeah,

1389
01:30:40,530 --> 01:30:46,230
it's, it's now DNS servers. You
need about you know, you need to

1390
01:30:46,260 --> 01:30:48,990
be you need to you need to get
entry points, gateways into this

1391
01:30:48,990 --> 01:30:53,460
thing. Right. So I think once we
figured, you know, well, I mean,

1392
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,800
I guess we kind of know that
already. I guess, we know at

1393
01:30:55,800 --> 01:31:00,630
least it's got to be HTTP. Then
you got to figure out who can

1394
01:31:00,630 --> 01:31:01,410
write to it.

1395
01:31:02,100 --> 01:31:04,290
Adam Curry: Right? That's Yes.
That's, that's the big one.

1396
01:31:05,100 --> 01:31:05,640
Yeah.

1397
01:31:06,210 --> 01:31:08,790
Dave Jones: Because it mean,
well, you if you.

1398
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:14,250
Adam Curry: So we built this
whole distributed architecture,

1399
01:31:14,250 --> 01:31:18,510
and Dave still runs it. Yeah,
that's what I want to not do.

1400
01:31:19,140 --> 01:31:21,660
Keep drinking those beef
milkshakes. We got to keep Dave

1401
01:31:21,660 --> 01:31:25,830
alai que da keep Dave alive.

1402
01:31:27,300 --> 01:31:29,460
Dave Jones: That's, that's what
I Yeah, that's what I want to

1403
01:31:29,460 --> 01:31:31,710
not do. Because I think we all
want to get away from that.

1404
01:31:31,740 --> 01:31:33,540
Yeah. Well, as

1405
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:35,880
Adam Curry: if to restate kind
of the mission that we're on,

1406
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:40,020
you know, we have given
independent podcast apps a place

1407
01:31:40,500 --> 01:31:44,700
to feed on to live from that.
And I feel really good about

1408
01:31:44,700 --> 01:31:48,090
that. If you're solid, we have a
little bit of money in the bank

1409
01:31:48,090 --> 01:31:50,280
to keep it running. If
everything falls down, and B

1410
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,610
we've got code distributed
database distributed. We're

1411
01:31:53,610 --> 01:31:59,070
still a vulnerability in the
whole mix, obviously. And it'll

1412
01:31:59,070 --> 01:32:02,040
take some years, but I feels
good. David feels like we're

1413
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,640
moving in the right direction on
all of this, you know, that

1414
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:09,030
thinks mainly because, you know,
we're not in this to exit you

1415
01:32:09,030 --> 01:32:12,540
know, we're not looking for an
exit here with the exit we want

1416
01:32:12,540 --> 01:32:16,050
is to not exist. You know, we
want a real exit. It's a true

1417
01:32:16,050 --> 01:32:16,650
exit.

1418
01:32:17,850 --> 01:32:21,930
Dave Jones: And our exit is
rest. Yes. Well, for you, man.

1419
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:23,130
for you today. Now. Yeah,

1420
01:32:23,130 --> 01:32:25,080
Adam Curry: for you mainly well.

1421
01:32:28,110 --> 01:32:30,390
Dave Jones: So that's, that's
something we need to discuss

1422
01:32:30,390 --> 01:32:32,730
real quick. I mean, I know
we're, we're getting on in the

1423
01:32:32,730 --> 01:32:37,170
show now. But like we need to
talk about Elon pay. Oh, yeah.

1424
01:32:37,170 --> 01:32:41,640
Go for him. Yeah, Tim. People
may not know this, but we've

1425
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:47,370
been right running an LM pay
node to support like, you know,

1426
01:32:47,370 --> 01:32:49,890
what you might call legacy
wallets for a while we've been

1427
01:32:49,890 --> 01:32:54,870
paying for it. Yeah, we pay a
lot. I mean, we pay $450 a month

1428
01:32:55,560 --> 01:33:01,350
for him to for Tim case, hosting
fees to run this node for us.

1429
01:33:01,740 --> 01:33:04,830
And Tim basically doesn't make
anything off of enemy. He's

1430
01:33:04,830 --> 01:33:09,480
just, this is all this is all
basically charity work for him

1431
01:33:09,480 --> 01:33:12,840
and us. And just to support the,
you know,

1432
01:33:13,530 --> 01:33:15,480
Adam Curry: the value for value,
what we bootstrapped was a

1433
01:33:15,480 --> 01:33:17,130
bootstrap. Yeah.

1434
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:19,740
Dave Jones: So we went from
sphinx to Ellen pay in the

1435
01:33:19,740 --> 01:33:24,720
beginning. Lm pays node had
problems. And Tim said, you

1436
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:27,630
know, hey, there's a lot of
traffic coming through this

1437
01:33:27,630 --> 01:33:31,410
thing, y'all. Y'all are killing
it on the on the podcasting 2.0

1438
01:33:31,410 --> 01:33:35,790
stuff. So really, we need to
split this off into a separate

1439
01:33:35,790 --> 01:33:38,700
node. So we were like, Yeah,
sure, you know, we'll pay for

1440
01:33:38,700 --> 01:33:43,320
that. We started paying him to
run a node dedicated just to

1441
01:33:43,320 --> 01:33:48,240
podcasting 2.0 stuff. And it
hosted, you know, hosted a bunch

1442
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:51,930
of wallets. But those slowly got
moved as everybody moved to

1443
01:33:51,930 --> 01:33:57,750
Albie, and to fountain and other
solutions. So that that LNP node

1444
01:33:57,750 --> 01:34:00,660
is pretty much defunct now,
there hasn't been any

1445
01:34:00,660 --> 01:34:04,560
transactions on that node for
like, at least a month or more.

1446
01:34:05,220 --> 01:34:08,040
So he contacted us and say, Hey,
I'm really getting ready to shut

1447
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:11,370
this thing down into the year
2023 I want to be out of this

1448
01:34:11,370 --> 01:34:13,920
game because, you know, it's a
risk for him. I mean, he doesn't

1449
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,440
know what's going on on this
thing. He was all just for him.

1450
01:34:16,440 --> 01:34:21,510
It was all just fun. A side
project for monetizing

1451
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:23,940
Adam Curry: it for us it was
just bootstrapping and we're

1452
01:34:23,940 --> 01:34:26,550
happy to be out of the game for
sure.

1453
01:34:26,580 --> 01:34:31,050
Dave Jones: And he decided that
he's like you know what I'm this

1454
01:34:31,050 --> 01:34:33,330
is not never going to be a
moneymaker for me and I don't

1455
01:34:33,330 --> 01:34:35,370
really want it to be anyway, so
I'm just gonna get out so he's

1456
01:34:35,370 --> 01:34:38,970
gonna shut the whole thing down.
So that means 1231 Let's just

1457
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:43,380
you know, roughly into the year
the Ellen pay stuff is

1458
01:34:43,380 --> 01:34:47,430
completely gone. It's shutting
the whole thing down is good for

1459
01:34:47,430 --> 01:34:50,730
us because that means that we
don't have to pay that bill

1460
01:34:50,790 --> 01:34:57,180
every month that'll that'll help
save us some money. And that but

1461
01:34:57,180 --> 01:35:01,410
anyway, the if anybody's still
has If you if you have something

1462
01:35:01,410 --> 01:35:05,310
on LMP you already know that
that's probably redundant but if

1463
01:35:05,370 --> 01:35:08,220
if you have like a forecast
ematic I think cast Matic still

1464
01:35:08,220 --> 01:35:11,520
has like a migration function
that works where you can move

1465
01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:17,190
your wallet from ln pay to Alby
into the year that's that's just

1466
01:35:17,190 --> 01:35:19,350
all going to go away as now's
the time.

1467
01:35:19,650 --> 01:35:21,900
Adam Curry: And I just wanted to
say and I know he doesn't mind

1468
01:35:21,900 --> 01:35:27,420
me saying it just so you know
how value for value works with

1469
01:35:27,480 --> 01:35:33,600
with the value split? Neal Jones
to people listen, no agenda

1470
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:38,880
known as the clip custodian. He
has been supplying me with clips

1471
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:46,740
for um, it may be it may be
running on two years. Now how

1472
01:35:46,740 --> 01:35:48,360
long is how long is Emily's? No,

1473
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:50,010
Dave Jones: it's, it's longer
than that. It's longer than

1474
01:35:50,010 --> 01:35:52,410
that. And he's doing it before
we started.

1475
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:55,440
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's true.
And so once we add value for

1476
01:35:55,440 --> 01:35:58,710
value up and running, then this
is pretty much what no agenda

1477
01:35:58,710 --> 01:36:03,360
gives all of their SATs away.
The I said, Dude, I'm putting in

1478
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:09,840
for them. See, it was it was
initially 5%. Now I'm thinking

1479
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:13,560
Let me let me check. I can look
it up. I'm gonna look it up. You

1480
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:15,660
know, I'm gonna let you out a
lot. Look it up. I'm looking it

1481
01:36:15,660 --> 01:36:19,710
up. Let me I just looked it up.
looking it up. And he's in for

1482
01:36:20,610 --> 01:36:27,720
oh, 20% Yeah. 20. But I upped
that it was it was 10%. And then

1483
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:31,110
somewhere along the line it
upset. That mean, he had like 8

1484
01:36:31,110 --> 01:36:32,340
million sets.

1485
01:36:33,090 --> 01:36:35,610
Dave Jones: They did this. Just
so you know.

1486
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:38,610
Adam Curry: That's that's that's
actual money. It's like three

1487
01:36:38,610 --> 01:36:42,030
grand, right? Yeah, it was
actual money that had just been

1488
01:36:42,030 --> 01:36:46,950
accruing. And I'd switch them
over to Albie a while ago. So

1489
01:36:46,950 --> 01:36:49,740
this, you know, it stopped. But
it was just sitting there. And

1490
01:36:49,740 --> 01:36:52,830
it was so many basically by how
we even do can't even move in

1491
01:36:52,830 --> 01:36:58,950
that over the Lightning Network.
Like if he so Tim sends it to

1492
01:36:58,950 --> 01:37:02,850
them on chain. But there's real
money yo.

1493
01:37:04,170 --> 01:37:08,310
Dave Jones: Well, let me look at
30 Look at look at V four v

1494
01:37:08,430 --> 01:37:12,570
stats.com. I mean, it's we're
still tracking daily stuff. And

1495
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:17,670
over the last 90 days $38,278
have changed hands. Yeah.

1496
01:37:17,820 --> 01:37:21,570
Adam Curry: So is real money
going around this network. Real

1497
01:37:21,570 --> 01:37:25,710
money to value for value, even
with the Satoshis is doing

1498
01:37:25,710 --> 01:37:34,050
something real. I'm so proud of
us. No one owns it. No one No

1499
01:37:34,050 --> 01:37:37,320
one can interrupt it. No one
owns it. That's the beauty. Peer

1500
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:40,020
to Peer money. In that's why you
do

1501
01:37:41,460 --> 01:37:43,350
Dave Jones: that's why you do
things in the most open way

1502
01:37:43,350 --> 01:37:46,680
possible is because that's
that's how you achieve

1503
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:47,520
resilience.

1504
01:37:47,940 --> 01:37:50,550
Adam Curry: We love it. We love
it. Alright, let's thank some

1505
01:37:50,550 --> 01:37:53,310
people. Dave Jones. I'm gonna go
through some of these live

1506
01:37:53,940 --> 01:37:58,800
boosts that we've gotten. Steven
B 12345. We did the blueberry

1507
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:03,510
11,000 1100 Sam Sethi with 1000
We got that one nice row of

1508
01:38:03,510 --> 01:38:11,850
ducks. 22,222 from hard hat. And
he says your ad here. Sure, put

1509
01:38:11,850 --> 01:38:17,580
22,000 SATs you can 10,000 from
Sam Sethi my time and attention

1510
01:38:17,580 --> 01:38:21,420
has value. Today advertisers
give me no value for my time and

1511
01:38:21,420 --> 01:38:24,090
attention. They want it for
free. Using V for free

1512
01:38:24,090 --> 01:38:27,480
advertisers could pay me SATs
per minute to listen to adverts,

1513
01:38:27,660 --> 01:38:31,530
aka reverse wallet switching. If
I skipped forward they stopped

1514
01:38:31,530 --> 01:38:35,340
paying but if I listened they
pay podcasters can take a split

1515
01:38:35,340 --> 01:38:38,190
for serving the advert to their
listeners that this has always

1516
01:38:38,190 --> 01:38:42,300
been. We've always talked about
this being a possibility. And of

1517
01:38:42,300 --> 01:38:47,520
course, it makes nothing but
sense. By the way, I wanted to

1518
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:52,020
mention Dolby das came up with
an interesting new term which I

1519
01:38:52,290 --> 01:38:55,980
thought would be worth
mentioning. You know Dolby dasa

1520
01:38:55,980 --> 01:39:01,890
says RSS blue.com. And they have
valued time splits, also known

1521
01:39:01,890 --> 01:39:05,910
as magic wallet switching
technology. And the way he sets

1522
01:39:05,910 --> 01:39:13,350
it up, is he the he does it with
chapters. So when you're playing

1523
01:39:13,350 --> 01:39:18,150
a song, or have another person
come on, you set a chapter

1524
01:39:18,150 --> 01:39:23,280
marker and that chapter marker
under the hood, that creates the

1525
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:27,690
wallet switch to the remote and
back and he calls that super

1526
01:39:27,690 --> 01:39:32,670
chapters and I like it. I like
to buy like super chapters

1527
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:36,240
because the Super Chat so the
chapter marker becomes your

1528
01:39:36,660 --> 01:39:39,360
value time split marker that may
not be appropriate for

1529
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:43,350
everybody. But in general, I
think that's pretty good. I

1530
01:39:43,350 --> 01:39:44,520
think it's pretty good. I like
it.

1531
01:39:44,940 --> 01:39:47,760
Dave Jones: I get Yeah, it's
it's some Yeah, I can see it.

1532
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:52,590
It's from some people. Yeah,
it's just another option. Yes.

1533
01:39:52,590 --> 01:39:53,340
Yeah, it just

1534
01:39:53,370 --> 01:39:55,980
Adam Curry: it sounds cool. But
what are you super chapters? Oh,

1535
01:39:55,980 --> 01:39:58,020
that's where the wallet
switches? Yeah, super chapters.

1536
01:39:58,140 --> 01:40:05,040
Exactly. We have served Ryan in
London 21,948 or 219 48 Israeli

1537
01:40:05,040 --> 01:40:09,120
freedom boost brother you're in
our prayers ceasefire over back

1538
01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:12,480
under rocket fire he says and
he's of course is in Israel and

1539
01:40:12,480 --> 01:40:19,770
so your prayers are with you
brother so stupid stupid stupid

1540
01:40:19,770 --> 01:40:23,250
wars so stupid we need to make
peace profitable again that's

1541
01:40:23,250 --> 01:40:24,450
how we'll stop this stuff.

1542
01:40:24,870 --> 01:40:25,350
Dave Jones: Amen

1543
01:40:26,700 --> 01:40:33,090
Adam Curry: We have so let me
see 33 over 10 Boys sends us

1544
01:40:33,090 --> 01:40:40,260
SATs from breeze 12345
Spaceballs boost face balls.

1545
01:40:40,500 --> 01:40:42,540
What is face balls come up?

1546
01:40:44,220 --> 01:40:46,470
Dave Jones: I don't know is that
something we talked it must have

1547
01:40:46,470 --> 01:40:48,990
been I know. That sounds
familiar. Yeah.

1548
01:40:50,010 --> 01:40:52,830
Adam Curry: One on One SATs from
Sam sathyu says can't let this

1549
01:40:52,830 --> 01:40:55,650
was some discrepancy we talked
about he says I can't listen to

1550
01:40:55,650 --> 01:41:00,870
you live at the time. 6:25am
local time. But I mean I set it

1551
01:41:00,870 --> 01:41:09,450
to 1225 Looks good. See? Ya look
good look. But we have let me

1552
01:41:09,450 --> 01:41:14,430
see. That's it. That's it for
our booths were current. So you

1553
01:41:14,430 --> 01:41:17,280
can take it away from what
you've got from your now fixed

1554
01:41:17,310 --> 01:41:19,080
system. Yes,

1555
01:41:19,170 --> 01:41:25,140
Dave Jones: we are receiving
emails again. We've got no one

1556
01:41:25,140 --> 01:41:28,230
off donations from PayPal this
week. So straight to booster

1557
01:41:28,230 --> 01:41:32,250
grams. We go we start with
chyron 2222 from the mere

1558
01:41:32,250 --> 01:41:34,170
mortals podcast or curio kasseri
says

1559
01:41:36,630 --> 01:41:39,210
Adam Curry: sorry, I hit the
dock I hit the dock

1560
01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:42,690
Dave Jones: I was frozen waiting
for this. So a couple of pain

1561
01:41:42,690 --> 01:41:46,080
points I've personally had
recently if I switch to using if

1562
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:49,170
I switch from using something
like contracts to fountain and

1563
01:41:49,170 --> 01:41:52,230
soon pod fans for providing my
value blog info, how does the

1564
01:41:52,230 --> 01:41:55,890
index know which to use if I
ever want to move a show like

1565
01:41:55,890 --> 01:41:59,070
mere mortals which has lots of
different episodes splits from

1566
01:41:59,070 --> 01:42:02,100
Buzzsprout to a host that
supports the value tag I need a

1567
01:42:02,100 --> 01:42:05,340
way to direct them to the feed
with all the add ons. So a

1568
01:42:05,340 --> 01:42:08,850
general export or linkage from
the PI feed would be useful so

1569
01:42:09,180 --> 01:42:14,130
that's that's an easy one if you
just to if you switch away from

1570
01:42:14,310 --> 01:42:18,030
a host that doesn't support a
value block to a host that does

1571
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:21,390
then that value block will go
into the feed and we will see

1572
01:42:21,390 --> 01:42:24,300
that value block and will
override everything yeah and all

1573
01:42:24,300 --> 01:42:25,350
it will suck all that in

1574
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:30,930
Adam Curry: so Barry is this way
he says switching from contracts

1575
01:42:30,930 --> 01:42:34,260
to something else? I mean yeah,
just you change it in the feed

1576
01:42:34,260 --> 01:42:39,000
and the N and the index sees it
and changes it right? Yeah,

1577
01:42:39,030 --> 01:42:41,550
Dave Jones: like if you if
you're paying if you're giving

1578
01:42:41,550 --> 01:42:44,550
contracts a split to get their
stats then you just switch that

1579
01:42:44,550 --> 01:42:45,870
to the other person Yeah,

1580
01:42:46,140 --> 01:42:49,530
Adam Curry: it's you're in
control. You rock you rock you

1581
01:42:49,530 --> 01:42:52,710
roll you rule the man's you
chyron you go by

1582
01:42:55,050 --> 01:42:59,700
Dave Jones: as a Mary Oh Mary
Oscar also known as Oscar Mary

1583
01:43:00,180 --> 01:43:03,750
7333 through found and he says P
Doom equals zero Happy

1584
01:43:03,750 --> 01:43:04,260
Thanksgiving.

1585
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:08,580
Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you
Oscar. fountain

1586
01:43:08,580 --> 01:43:13,170
Dave Jones: with a P doom of
01111. From Joel W. Through

1587
01:43:13,170 --> 01:43:18,900
fountain says roosters lives
matter let's get a link here I

1588
01:43:18,900 --> 01:43:22,020
don't know was that a link to oh
that's a clip that's a found

1589
01:43:22,020 --> 01:43:27,150
clip oh wait that didn't go
where I thought it would wait I

1590
01:43:27,150 --> 01:43:29,310
may have to investigate this
clip. I thought it was just a

1591
01:43:29,310 --> 01:43:38,610
clip of us Oh, I don't know what
that is. If I didn't know what

1592
01:43:38,610 --> 01:43:42,150
that was I would I started to
bring that next week. That's it

1593
01:43:42,150 --> 01:43:44,160
linked to a different show where
they're talking about roosters

1594
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:50,040
are some bad career advice Chad
6969 through found a nice a

1595
01:43:50,040 --> 01:43:53,580
super awesome Turkey Day episode
started strong with chicken gore

1596
01:43:53,730 --> 01:43:57,030
and ended with TLD to have that
will become podcasting lower.

1597
01:44:01,830 --> 01:44:03,990
Adam Curry: It will become
podcasting. Well Phoebe's all

1598
01:44:03,990 --> 01:44:06,180
upset on what she's upset about
right now.

1599
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:11,880
Dave Jones: In the morning, 1200
SATs through fountain says Dave

1600
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:17,010
stop beating those cogs. Okay. I
knew somebody was going to do

1601
01:44:17,010 --> 01:44:20,250
it. It wasn't inevitable. Yes,
of course. There was an

1602
01:44:20,250 --> 01:44:24,780
incoming. Okay. Jason from
podcast Guru 22 to 22 through

1603
01:44:24,780 --> 01:44:28,290
podcasts guru, of course. He
says thanks for helping us out

1604
01:44:28,290 --> 01:44:32,370
on X Twitter. Users don't often
understand how podcast ads work.

1605
01:44:32,490 --> 01:44:33,990
Oh, yeah. He got the typical

1606
01:44:34,590 --> 01:44:38,550
Adam Curry: Yeah, oh, I
installed podcast guru which you

1607
01:44:38,550 --> 01:44:43,320
told me to install curry. I got
ads pharma ads. And this is what

1608
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:48,870
podcasting 2.0 is all about. And
here's the thing though, this

1609
01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:53,100
some podcasts and I said well,
no, that's, you know, that's the

1610
01:44:53,100 --> 01:44:57,090
podcast, who you know, they're
the ones who have a deal with

1611
01:44:57,090 --> 01:45:00,840
the ad insertion. And these and
the podcast got In my face,

1612
01:45:01,050 --> 01:45:05,550
they're like, Well, you don't
understand us. We'd never want

1613
01:45:05,550 --> 01:45:08,430
pharma ads. That's our host. Oh,
okay. So

1614
01:45:09,510 --> 01:45:11,940
Dave Jones: they're just passing
the buck upstream. Yeah. All the

1615
01:45:11,940 --> 01:45:12,360
way you

1616
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:15,150
Adam Curry: know, because we've
told them time and again, we

1617
01:45:15,150 --> 01:45:18,450
don't want pharma ads and we
need to make sure that just

1618
01:45:18,450 --> 01:45:22,710
because you don't understand who
we are like, dude, slow down.

1619
01:45:22,710 --> 01:45:24,060
Why are you so mad bro?

1620
01:45:24,570 --> 01:45:29,700
Dave Jones: They will never,
ever respect what the podcaster

1621
01:45:29,700 --> 01:45:34,080
wants no advertiser. Oh, of
course he could care less. And

1622
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:36,180
once you get what you get, and
was

1623
01:45:36,180 --> 01:45:38,520
Adam Curry: it Megatron or who
are those guys? megaphone?

1624
01:45:38,730 --> 01:45:44,370
Dave Jones: Megatron. Megatron.
Megatron, that's probably more

1625
01:45:44,370 --> 01:45:49,950
appropriate. Yeah, Mike Dell
1701 Star Trek boost. He says

1626
01:45:50,160 --> 01:45:52,560
tell Andrew to call Mike and
blueberry to get off the

1627
01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:53,250
Feedburner

1628
01:45:53,820 --> 01:45:58,410
Adam Curry: Oh, that's Andrew
Horowitz Yeah. Okay, yeah, I'll

1629
01:45:58,410 --> 01:46:00,990
remember next time because I get
called Micah blue. I think he

1630
01:46:00,990 --> 01:46:05,010
actually I think he might have
talked to me. I don't know it's

1631
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:08,160
it's he's in the in the
Feedburner hole just like good

1632
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:08,580
luck.

1633
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:13,260
Dave Jones: Yeah, call Mike D.
Brian Ensminger 1701. Another

1634
01:46:13,260 --> 01:46:16,440
Star Trek boost. Their cast
thematic says AI chat bots are

1635
01:46:16,440 --> 01:46:19,860
the new Clippy That's right.
There the old clip he actually

1636
01:46:20,220 --> 01:46:25,140
yes. That's it. That's it. We
got some. We because we have no

1637
01:46:25,140 --> 01:46:27,960
commentary blogger because he's
taking the Yeah,

1638
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:30,000
Adam Curry: he's taking the
month off to study on his AI

1639
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:30,570
test.

1640
01:46:31,650 --> 01:46:33,390
Dave Jones: We do have some
monthlies. We have Michael

1641
01:46:33,390 --> 01:46:38,610
Kimmerer $5.33, dribs got the
Bruce Wayne of podcasting. $15

1642
01:46:39,030 --> 01:46:44,460
Pedro gun calvess $5. Chad,
Pharaoh $20.22, Scott Jobert

1643
01:46:44,490 --> 01:46:49,440
$12. And Cameron Rose $25. And
that's our group, small group.

1644
01:46:49,470 --> 01:46:50,340
But a solid group.

1645
01:46:50,850 --> 01:46:54,240
Adam Curry: Thank you all so
much, we appreciate you this is

1646
01:46:55,380 --> 01:46:59,460
it is value for value. That is,
that's how we keep this all

1647
01:46:59,460 --> 01:47:04,020
running. If the show or the
project or anything gives you

1648
01:47:04,020 --> 01:47:08,010
any value of any sort, maybe we
know that the hosting companies

1649
01:47:08,010 --> 01:47:11,190
value it and we know the apps
value it and podcast, you should

1650
01:47:11,190 --> 01:47:15,840
value it. If you do then you can
go to podcast index.org. Down at

1651
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:18,240
the bottom, we've got two red
donate buttons. One is for your

1652
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:21,360
Fiat fund coupons. You can do it
through PayPal, which is still

1653
01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:24,960
like completely valid way of
doing it. And we have unchained

1654
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:28,050
I should probably check that to
make sure that although that

1655
01:47:28,050 --> 01:47:32,580
doesn't happen very it's all
usually only Dred Scott, if

1656
01:47:32,580 --> 01:47:35,250
there's anything on the on
chain, and Nope, there's nothing

1657
01:47:35,250 --> 01:47:40,590
there. Or you can go to podcast
apps.com Which I believe is Dame

1658
01:47:40,590 --> 01:47:45,570
Jennifer registered modern
podcast apps.com For us, which I

1659
01:47:45,570 --> 01:47:50,100
appreciate. Yeah, that's cool.
And get one of those modern

1660
01:47:50,100 --> 01:47:52,800
podcast apps and boost us we
love the boosts we love the

1661
01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:55,380
booster grams. It keeps all the
servers running, keeps

1662
01:47:55,380 --> 01:47:57,600
everything going and let you
know that you value what we're

1663
01:47:57,600 --> 01:47:59,790
doing here. And we really
appreciate that. Thank you so

1664
01:47:59,790 --> 01:48:00,300
much.

1665
01:48:00,720 --> 01:48:04,980
Dave Jones: That was evidently
in response to a miss, like a

1666
01:48:04,980 --> 01:48:09,480
misspeak. But you know, I think
where you said modern podcast

1667
01:48:09,480 --> 01:48:15,660
apps.com. This, this is this
happened to my wife. They miss

1668
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:19,350
me she had me or she does
illustrations for lots of

1669
01:48:19,350 --> 01:48:23,550
things. But she had illustration
for one of her children's books

1670
01:48:23,550 --> 01:48:29,820
that was published, and the
publisher misquoted, they

1671
01:48:29,820 --> 01:48:35,190
spelled her website wrong in two
different places. So I had to go

1672
01:48:35,190 --> 01:48:39,240
read I was had to defensively
register those wrong domain

1673
01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:39,750
names.

1674
01:48:39,810 --> 01:48:42,840
Adam Curry: Oh, and redirect
them to the right, right. Oh,

1675
01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:44,700
worse. That's the worst.

1676
01:48:45,870 --> 01:48:48,420
Dave Jones: Three domain names
that I'm pointing to for like

1677
01:48:48,420 --> 01:48:51,660
the net for the rest of my life
that I'm paying for every year.

1678
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:53,310
Only for defense. Oh, yeah. Tell

1679
01:48:53,310 --> 01:48:56,310
Adam Curry: me about it. I have
several of those domain names

1680
01:48:56,310 --> 01:49:01,170
that will stay with me forever.
For reasons like that. Yeah. All

1681
01:49:01,170 --> 01:49:03,840
right, brother. Anything else
for the roundtable? Before we

1682
01:49:04,110 --> 01:49:06,420
before we made a joke, everyone.

1683
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:09,120
Dave Jones: Now I'm good at
that. I got I got homework to do

1684
01:49:09,120 --> 01:49:11,070
this weekend on Olympic car.

1685
01:49:11,130 --> 01:49:14,220
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's, it's, I
just got excited by it. Because

1686
01:49:14,220 --> 01:49:17,820
I just I register a lot of
domain names or have in my life.

1687
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:20,700
And when I see I'm just adding
records, click click click I'm

1688
01:49:20,700 --> 01:49:25,590
done with this is cool. This is
easier than than my registrar.

1689
01:49:25,890 --> 01:49:30,120
This is just felt very cool. I
love it a lot. Could be good. I

1690
01:49:30,120 --> 01:49:34,410
Dave Jones: think. Hopefully
we'll have questions answered by

1691
01:49:34,410 --> 01:49:37,200
next week. And we can actually
we can actually like do a

1692
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:42,120
feasibility discussion on how
like, what not Oh, that's cool,

1693
01:49:42,150 --> 01:49:42,480
but

1694
01:49:43,890 --> 01:49:46,860
Adam Curry: a little deeper. All
right, Alex gates on deck as

1695
01:49:46,860 --> 01:49:51,390
well. All right, brother. Have
yourself a great weekend. And

1696
01:49:51,660 --> 01:49:54,750
we'll be talking next week. All
right, man. All right. Thank you

1697
01:49:54,750 --> 01:49:57,570
all very much there in the chat
room. We appreciate you joining

1698
01:49:57,570 --> 01:50:01,530
us here for the board meeting
podcast. Lesson 2.0 Join us next

1699
01:50:01,530 --> 01:50:03,330
Friday right here podcasting.

1700
01:50:19,830 --> 01:50:24,390
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1701
01:50:24,390 --> 01:50:31,590
index.org For more information
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