Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for July 21 2023, episode 142 Bottom
funnel Hello everybody time once again for the official board
meeting of podcasting 2.0. That's right, the only boardroom
that's open during the strike. We're here to bring you
everything that's going on with the podcast index.org with the
podcast namespace, of course, everything. We're talking about
O'Byrne podcast index on social the future of podcasting is
here. I'm Adam curry in the heart of the Texas Hill Country
and in Alabama, the man who will grep your log anytime day or
night. Say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and
gentlemen, Mr. de m. Yo.
Dave Jones: I'm barely had time to put my vitamin D drops in the
beef shake.
Adam Curry: Things I never say
Dave Jones: I did as a special gift to myself today though.
Yeah, I dropped as I was mixing up the grass fed beef milkshake.
Dropped in a dropped an ice cream sandwich in there. Oh, I
Adam Curry: thought you were gonna say I dropped a little bit
of acid in there. And that would have been really cool.
Dave Jones: We'll be great in about
Adam Curry: day two tuned, it's on the way.
Dave Jones: Yes. Ice Cream Sandwich known for his vitamin
and mineral content.
Adam Curry: That was a little a little bit of a downer. We
started today. And we always try to have a cool little pre stream
show. We're singing along with some classic hits 100% retro,
which is available in all modern podcast apps and understand the
live concert. And we found out Tony Bennett passed away today.
It's just I mean, he had a great life. 96 years old was still
miss Tony tried to play Little Tony and then I got even more
depressed was not a good thing. When I
Dave Jones: came in and sat down 10 minutes late by the way. I
came in and sat down and went up when I jack into the stream.
Yes. Typically, you got 100% retro. It was Madonna Auto Tune
whatever that stupid song is that she has that.
Adam Curry: That yeah, I forget what it was.
Dave Jones: Whatever, that dumb song and so then. And then I'm
like, okay, somebody you were not here. I said somebody tell
Adam that I'm here but I gotta go like putting my stuff now and
everything. And I get back in. It's like, Tony. Hey, Tony
Bennett. Dad
Adam Curry: just heard about it. Like, oh, man, I was mentioning
earlier during the stream. I will say now that I saw him I
think three years ago in Austin, maybe four years ago. at the
movie theater. I'd seen him eight years ago as well in
Austin at a bigger theater did the same thing. But so he was 92
I guess. And I got halfway or three quarters through the
concert. He just puts his mic down and sings on amplified and
fills the whole place.
Dave Jones: There was a better bed deck. I bet it's like kind
of a haunting. Saying
Adam Curry: goosebumps just Goosebumps. Goosebumps. I also
saw him when he had his daughter on the road. Who I didn't know
about. Yeah, he while his daughter was kind of for
support. I think he said I just wanted her on the she can say
she's good singer to just wander on the road for support. And so
didn't want to be out on the road by myself. My last years.
Yeah. Anyway,
Dave Jones: are you one of those? We'll see when those guys
that got into like, became like a standard Las Vegas. Person
that like live there.
Adam Curry: Well, I mean, he of course was there for many years
on and off. But I mean, he was way above and beyond, you know,
a like a residency in Vegas. I mean, he was he could do
anything you wanted at any point in time anywhere in the world. I
had he was he was he was Frank Sinatra's favorite singer.
Dave Jones: Give Good for him. Yeah, he had a good luck. Yeah,
Adam Curry: good luck. Good Life is awesome. All the songs at the
American Songbook is rolling through my head. Anyway, welcome
strikers. For those of you wondering, What am I going to do
during the strike? Well, you came to the right place.
Dave Jones: Welcome to get up and get any podcast.
Adam Curry: Well, you know, I'm just saying if there's all kinds
of exceptions and waivers for the strike business, like Apple
got a waiver for one of their shows there's there's all these
like, tricky deals you can do and then the the guild or the
union so sag AFTRA, and I guess the Writers Guild will give you
a waiver so you can continue production is like kind of
scammy
Dave Jones: this is this is the this is the Russia sanctions
scam. You know, you get sanctions, but you have like 27
Different loopholes that you can Oh, yeah, but you can't you
can't Take oil, you know, you can't accept oil from Russia,
unless you're in one of these 57 special categories.
Adam Curry: Exactly. Exactly. And then you can,
Dave Jones: it's all fine. Yeah.
Adam Curry: It's I mean, I'm just looking at what's going on
and how far apart these people are and what the what I think
the this is called Hollywood, but it's not really fair because
99% of the people who work in the entertainment industry on
television, radio, movies, support for all that are meal
people you've never heard of probably just, you know, actors
who work for a living, you know, look at any scene on a
television or movie, television show or movies. There's, there's
about 50 people walking around that you don't think about but
they're there. They're, you know, they're on set, they're
getting paid. Some of them do speaking roles. It's all I mean,
I've I've done my fair share of little bit parts here and there,
and you don't get paid much good paid scale, even though I was
MTB guy. Now, here's scale Shut up.
Dave Jones: What's it's, it's common. I mean, it's common for
everybody, the everybody in anything related to media
because this like, say New York Times had an article today
actually printed it out Google tests AI tool that is able to
write news articles. Here's, here's this, here's this line.
And it says, news organizations around the world are grappling
with whether to use artificial intelligence tools in their
newsrooms, many, including the times NPR and insider, have
notified employees that they intend to explore potential uses
of AI to see how it might be responsibly applied to the high
stakes realm of news, where seconds count and accuracy is
paramount. You see, I'm
Adam Curry: not I don't think AI is so much the problem. I really
don't. I don't think Hollywood believes that, you know, great
scripts are going to get turned out by AI. The problem is, it's
no longer the business that these actors and writers thought
they were in, you know, and it was all great when it was like,
hey, you know, we're changing the model. We don't have
residuals because it's all gonna be on our streaming app. So
we're gonna pay you more upfront. So you because then you
won't get residuals like, okay, and I was like, hey, that's
groovy. And look at all this work I got, and then interest
rates went through the roof and the free money train stopped and
I was like, no, sorry, you know, and we're only doing six
episodes per season. So sorry. You know, wait six months
without work. And what they it's your are your headphones louder?
Is that me? I hear myself coming back from time to time.
Dave Jones: They're probably pretty loud. Yeah. Okay. I'm
jacked.
Adam Curry: Just turn you to No, no, do whatever is fine. I like
Dave Jones: you. I Like You loud in my head that way. It's it
feels good. Feels like you're right there. Do what I say.
Jones, no. Good Feet behind me.
Adam Curry: The problem is these guys don't realize it's no
longer dealing with Hollywood did dealing with Silicon Valley.
And we know the Silicon Valley model. Give me all your
creativity. Here's nothing. That's right. That's what they
do. That's that's a big reason why podcasting got into so much
trouble. By the way. I heard something kind of encouraging.
On the pod news weekly review. There's these two young women
that
Dave Jones: that interview. Yeah. Seriously made. It just
made me sad. Well, it made me depressed
Adam Curry: really, because I kind of got happy about it.
Interesting. Georgina Holt and Christiana Benton from the
telling agency that I think is not a great name personally.
Because I couldn't hear it. It was hard. What's the name
telling? Like belling selling, I couldn't quite get it. The
reason why I got a little enthusiastic is because they're
going back to the original model that I started with at pod show.
And that model was the idea that you could move away from
downloads and listener metrics and go to what they're calling a
performance based. Performance based advertising, also known as
what is it? Direct codes? Now? What Yeah, exactly. What do you
call it? What do you call it?
Dave Jones: Coupon Code coupon codes.
Adam Curry: Now what what happened with that is, very
quickly, we realized that the way to success with the coupon
codes was to SEO the crap out of the coupon code, who cares
what's in the podcast, as long as someone use the codes? So
then before you know it, you know, there's all these
companies that are being hired and they're, you know, they're
making sure that people see these coupon codes and those an
arbitrage which In the coupon code, you know, buying traffic
for the coupon codes, and then what we could get from the
advertiser. So it was a scam and I hated it. Yeah. However, they
said something kind of interesting. So the idea is, you
you want someone to buy something that's really the
metric that the advertiser uses. Either you're going to have
someone sign up for something register for something, or buy
something, there's a kind of the action so you're going to get
compensated based on how many people can perform an action.
And they were of course talking about attribution and pixels and
all this creepy tracking crap,
Dave Jones: and bottom funnels and whatever the hell that
means.
Adam Curry: Bottom funnel is a great show Title I
Dave Jones: don't know what it means a porn
Adam Curry: category on
Dave Jones: one point, I wish I had clipped it at the bottom
I've given myself a moratorium on pod news weekly review clips,
because there's just so many good things in there that I just
have to stop so I don't have a challenge to not clip that show
every week. So there was this one section in that interview
with I think it's Christiana she goes on a string of digital
advertising jargon that was one for the record books it was like
it was
Adam Curry: there was a lot of that in there with the accident
made it even funnier.
Dave Jones: It was like it was like seven or eight seconds of
words that I had no idea what any of it man oh my god, what is
what?
Adam Curry: Well, then I had a thought because and then also
and these things never come accidentally because who was it
was I go a guy over there on podcast index dot social who's
doing the stats? These extrapolating our stats and
creating new stats from the stats,
Dave Jones: Ron Plouffe palooza.
Adam Curry: Let's Obama's guy, Ron blue. No. Let me see. It's
on the second who is a dude, come on. It is Ron Plouffe.
Dave Jones: That's when you're thinking of David. David
Plouffe.
Adam Curry: David Plouffe? Yes. Another No, no,
Dave Jones: there may be a relation. I don't know. Here's
Adam Curry: another namespace milestone this week feeds with
chapters crossed 20,000. On Wednesday, congratulations. This
is quite good. You know, there's 20,000 podcast feeds that are
actively using chapters. That's not bad.
Dave Jones: That number is actually way more impressive
than it sounds because of the number we know that the number
of active shows is way, way lower than 4 million, you know,
the
Adam Curry: more like 400,000
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Right. So that I mean, that's actually
that's a pretty decent chunk.
Adam Curry: So then I was thinking, here's what it was
like the problem with attribution, and all this crap
is all the tracking and the creepy stuff. And ultimately,
it's not, it's just not really a great way. And I said, Wait a
minute, we have people in the app, you know, the call to
action shouldn't be, hey, buy this product, subscribe for this
service, sign up to this newsletter, whatever the call to
action is. Just look at your app right there. In the chapter,
click the link, we have the mechanism for this, we have the
call to action mechanism, which is dot does not require view to
be tracked. So we know that you heard about it on the show. No,
you can literally track it from a chapter link. That'll take you
right to whatever the action is.
Dave Jones: You'll see that's what, that's what that app visie
was trying to do. At vizlib, when we had them on the show the
guy from Australia, you what happened to them? I don't know.
I mean, they were they were kind of they were rolling for a while
and then they just can't, don't haven't seen or heard from in a
while. So I don't know, I don't know if they didn't make it or
what I'm not sure.
Adam Curry: But the idea, the idea. Yeah, the idea is good.
And now we have some traction with this stuff. And so it's
really a I mean, it's to me, it's like a hybrid value for
value in a way where you say, hey, look, we're sponsored by,
by now this advertiser, because it all it all requires what we
would call a host read, but it's not really it's more integrated
into the, into the content of the into the content, the
product is kind of integrated into what the show is doing.
Say, Hey, you know, the way to support this show, is to get a
modern podcast app. And then whenever you hear something you
like, you know, right there, click on the image, and it'll
take you to the offer.
Dave Jones: That's the only way I'm gonna get back.
Adam Curry: Which by the way, I think would be very, very
valuable as an audience that if you can get your audience to do
that, and it's not a big ask. It really isn't. I mean, whether
you're asking people to bigger ask us to ask them to boost with
Satoshis that's a big ask. Now we have something that There's
more chapter chapter bass feeds by what is it? By about 6000 We
have 14,000 value for value feeds, but all different
audiences, it's not a big ask to say you'll get a new app when
you listen to the show or listen to the show on this app, I'm
gonna have to hear something you like or hey, you know, sign up
for that because it supports everything, click on it. And the
attribution is built right into the system because you can hard
code your special link in there.
Dave Jones: We'll see that's the only way forward I think long
term that's the only way forward for for attribution because you
can't the pic the tracking pixel and all this that keeps
Adam Curry: going away. Yes. And it's not going to work anymore.
It's not going to it's not
Dave Jones: going to work at Apple will flip the switch. They
are going to do it and it is going to all this stuff is going
to break Yeah. Yeah, the world is broken.
Adam Curry: Words word so true, my friend. We live in a broken
world.
Dave Jones: You know, I've got a I've got a I brought a
PowerPoint.
Adam Curry: Up brought up PowerPoint. Oh my god, I just
don't even have the beamer hooked up. Who's got the Beamer?
Who who has the remote for the beam? Or do you have a cord?
What kind of cord Do you have? On your head
Dave Jones: display port?
Adam Curry: We need adapters.
Dave Jones: Somebody can somebody dropped the screen in
the travel conference room? I need to I need a projector.
Adam Curry: But how many times we've been through that crap.
Ah, Dave, you probably still go through it on a on a weekly
basis.
Dave Jones: Oh, three times a week at least. Yes. This is this
is what gets gets me this. Everything is perfect
transition, which is another way of saying the world The world is
broken. Because it so
Adam Curry: indicate next slide. Next slide.
Dave Jones: Sounds like what are those? What are those things?
The little little carousel? Yeah,
Adam Curry: project. That's what it is.
Dave Jones: And then you know how many of those I sat through?
My grandmother showed me. My uncle Israel, Uncle Stanley.
Adam Curry: Uncle Stanley did that in our fab. And then you
have Oh, go back and you have that double click, you know,
like, yeah, there it is. There's your double click back.
Dave Jones: Like, Oh, Grandma, the Jordan, the Jordan River.
Yes. I've seen it 100 times.
Adam Curry: Invariably, like someone would knock over the the
next carousel and everything would be out of order. And Uncle
Stanley would be literally mad. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Don't touch
him with your fingers.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. So I want to I want to, I want to
jump off track here and just talk about general the issue
edification of of the entire university
Adam Curry: and should have occation of the entire universe,
right? Yes. Yes.
Dave Jones: The cracks are starting to form. Everywhere you
look. I mean, it there. It's not just financial. It's it's
social. It's political. It's, it's every where you look, there
are, there are, there's you can see the cracks. This this week
was a difficult week. For me, not psychologically, I thought
almost a depression this week. Oh, goodness. Because of, it's
primarily to do with with with a thing that happened at my day
job that I was fighting against, that I obviously can't go into
detail about, but I can but I can give you the broad strokes.
So the we have an enterprise software vendor, I will just
leave it at that. It's a big one.
Adam Curry: Enough about Microsoft.
Dave Jones: And it is not Microsoft know, the in but but
that's the point is it could be any of them that like this
applies to all of them. So we've got this, we got this enterprise
software vendor that we have a lot of client data in. And we
come in Monday into the office and go to login as the add an
administrative user for this piece of for this platform. And
user unknown user. That is exactly what it says. This year
said user does not exist. And I was like, Excuse me. This is
literally the account that has everything. All the poverty.
This is godmode account. There's only one of them it because you
can only have one of them, right? And so I was like, Yeah,
this problem. So my coworker calls And he's in, he's told,
Oh, that account got disabled by our security and compliance
team, because they got flagged for you know, something specific
suspicious. And I was in so they said, All everything's met,
everything's okay.
Adam Curry: All your data is safe. Yes,
Dave Jones: you can say that. Everything's alright. But all
you gotta do we just need you to submit your best submit photo ID
proof.
Adam Curry: What are they Twitter was Twitter, your
vendor? What is the Facebook,
Dave Jones: we need to verify that you did, you're still in
control of this account. Okay, fine, submitted that
information, uploaded it through a link we were given.
Adam Curry: Now yours or your colleagues, Nicole McCauley,
good, good work,
Dave Jones: three, three days, three days and your subordinate,
Adam Curry: I should point out not just your colleague, the guy
who works for you, hey, use your ID
Dave Jones: as a colleague, because I don't want to
three days later, no word, no feed, note no response. So I
would now
Adam Curry: three hours, three hours, I would be pissed off.
Dave Jones: Now I have to get involved. So we were told two to
three days to turn around time. So now I have to get involved,
right? I call I call in. I'm told I'm told a different. Now
I'm told a different thing. I'm told, Oh, well, your security
team disabled this account. And you're gonna have to create a
new admin account. And in order to do that, you're gonna have to
submit documentation for district conditio, your
representative the company, and he's gonna have to be Shawn
signed by the managing shareholder. Oh, cool. You're
gonna need to submit articles of organization. Shareholders
agree? Yes, yes, yes. So went through all that. I'm going to
try to not make this story long. Because I'm trying to get to a
bigger point, I'm loving it. Went through all that to a day
later, get a rejection. Notice that you did not submit your
structure of your organization is
Adam Curry: your TPS reports, your TPS reports are not an
order is such
Dave Jones: that you need that you need signed documentation
from all of the shareholders.
Adam Curry: And there's probably 30 partners.
Dave Jones: It it's not a small number. And so I spent the
entire day getting photo IDs, permission letters, all this
stuff, submitted it again on Friday. Got a reject another
rejection over the weekend saying you did not submit any
information. So this, so I'm gonna stop right there. This
eventually the reason that I was late to the show to this is
eventually got resolved today. And it started last Monday. We
got stuck in a loop where nobody could verify when we get stuck
in an automation loop, a bureaucracy a bureaucratic
automation loop, which is what I mean by the insured ification of
everything enterprise software is broken. So let me try to give
a this intiative occation is the way I'm talking about it's like
it's the it's the phenomenon of an emerging awareness that the
techniques and rules based processes we've all become, like
bound to, they don't actually serve a purpose. They're not
useful, their usefulness. They don't they don't actually serve
a purpose purpose for which their usefulness outweighs the
effort used to adhere to them. Does that make sense?
Adam Curry: No, say say at moments had that last bit one
more time.
Dave Jones: So so it's it, there's this emerging awareness
that the the rules and the techniques that we are bound to
in all of these areas of life don't actually serve a purpose
for which their usefulness outweighs the effort we have to
x put out to adhere to them? Oh, no, of
Adam Curry: course not.
Dave Jones: So like when when technology is so when technology
produces velocity, okay, I'm going to use that term. When
technology produces a sort of like a velocity or, or a
momentum. There's this sense of pride Progress and like
economic, physical progress academic. Like even just like a
general excitement over invention, and like new things,
you know, you get to play with new things, you get to
experience new things. GK Chesterton said the Chief
pleasure. Well, what do you say is, the chief said the Chief
pleasure is surprise of all the pleasures of humanity, the chief
one is surprise. There's that's progress. And technological
velocity takes advantage of that experiential thing within
humanity. We, because of that, we ignore the sort of second
order effects, we ignore the things that are happening while
as a result of the technological velocity and in momentum. So
we're all just waiting for the next thing to happen. But now,
there's not a next thing. There is no next thing anymore. The
like, technology always resolves itself down at the, when edit
edits end. Technology always resolves itself down to
technique. And once the once that technological villa, I'm
using the term technological velocity, because I think some
people say like pace of innovation, and I don't like
that. I don't think that that's really what what I mean, once
that technological velocity slows, those second order
effects that we didn't, that we just sort of like were a little
bit aware of that maybe they were covered up by the, by the
excitement and the surprise of the new Yeah, those things
become the primary functions. They become not like they're no
longer freedom, they're constrained. Oh,
Adam Curry: absolutely. Or prof G would say 100%.
Dave Jones: Profit, G. Well, yeah. So like, a AI is? Well,
before I do before I before I go to that part, I've got a clip
notes from from this, we've been watching the show. I think it's
on what used to be HBO, Max, and Max now, to be watching this
show. It's called for the love of kitchens. Don't laugh at me.
Adam Curry: I love it. I think I think I'm gonna have to watch
the show for the love of kitchens, I like it.
Dave Jones: It's the default is this company called Devall.
They're out of the UK, they make these like $100,000 kitchens. So
we kind of get into this show. But there's this one. They've
got a bunch of craftsmen that that are that work for this
company. And they're on this little Preserve. And it's it's a
really nice atmosphere. And there's this one guy that he was
in it, and then he became a blacksmith working for this
Deval outfit. And he just gives us a little bit of his thoughts
on
Unknown: draw out the point. Then Winston that bend over the
end, because no one likes a sharp hook. So it doesn't damage
whatever you put on. I'm using my jig, I'll create the curve of
the hook. All I've got left to do now is get it all warm again.
Let it cool event, and then we're waxing. Previously, I've
had 20 plus years in the IT industry. And a few years ago, I
decided that I wanted something outside of it. I come to work
and I've got a boys toys, I can create stuff. And it's a freedom
that I never thought I'd get. I'm loving this. This is the
rail that Joe will be getting it when you hold something when you
know someone spent time creating it. Bit of love put into it. I
think that comes through to the customer. What's the
Adam Curry: name of this show?
Dave Jones: It's called for the love of kitchens. So here's, you
know, here's a guy, IT guy for 20 years. He finally got out of
the IT game. And I would say the technology game in general or
the Information Technology game and got in now. He He's a
craftsman. He's a tradesman, he makes things with his hands. And
he's super excited about it and he feels a seat he talks about
the freedom and I think the freedom that he's talking about
Is, is this thing, it's, it's the freedom from these second
order effects that build up as we progress technologically. And
that this, this brings me to, to to AI. That's what AI, it hit me
this week. AI is that is like the subconscious attempt of the
technological society to solve this paradox. As you increase as
you progress, as you increase technology, you also increase
these constraints, these second order effects, you start to feel
captivated, Eastover start to feel captive to them. You could
say like, you know, like, when, when we go to bed at night, we
don't we don't, we don't feel as happy as we did in like, 1990.
And it's not because, you know, it's not because of it is
because of a lot of these things, is because we now have
we have, we've technically progressed. But we are because
of that we have all these technical constraints on us now
that we have to adhere to, it's not enough to just, you know,
turn on the washing machine. Now we have, it's also connected to
an app on a window over Wi Fi on our phone.
Adam Curry: Hello, oh, it's Professor Ted from the grave for
you, Ted Kaczynski,
Dave Jones: consults, still a consultant. So the technical,
the technological velocity has slowed. We're unhappy with the
constraints that it left us with. And then comes AI. And AI
is the promises to ease the burden of of those constraints.
So AI is gonna take you so you take this situation that I was
in this week, you know, and now we're AI has to emerge in order
to be, quote, more intelligent, about, about security, about
about analyzing the security data to make sure that things
that happen, like happened to me won't happen again. Or to use a
personal example, from podcasting. And this, this kind
of ultimately comes around, I'm gonna I'm gonna ding ourselves
for this, which is not our fault, but it's just to how it
goes. With all the new features within podcasting, 2.0 in
podcast namespace. Buzzsprout now has to create AI in order to
make chapters and things like this easier. Because now in
order to produce a podcast, you're there's more stuff to do.
And so this AI is like, AI is this empty promise because it
can't work. It's not going to function the way that it can't.
So it's a it's claiming to solve a problem that it can't solve,
right? And it all goes back to this this. We were promised
flying cars, and we got 140 characters that concept. It's
worse than that. Because 140 characters brought with it.
Social media, apps, PR, SEO, mobile device management,
security vulnerabilities, tech support, censorship, on and on
and on, if you're really
Adam Curry: bumming me out, dude.
Dave Jones: What I'm saying is, AI is not the beginning of
anything. It's the end.
Adam Curry: It's actually the end of memory, the way I see it,
that we become so lazy,
Dave Jones: is the end of innovation is not the beginning
of any new phase of innovation. It's the end it's not in the AI
is not innovation. It's supplication. Whoo. snapback,
like it is begging you not to give up and exit the system.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yes, yes, yes. Yes. You know, it's interesting
that when I was 6015, maybe even 14, I lived in a small village
south of Amsterdam, and I did two summers. The thing was two
summers of Saturday work, and sometimes Thursday or Friday
work at a blacksmith oh really actually learned how to shoe a
horse. And by the way, that smell when you when you put that
horseshoe onto the horse's hoof you'll never forget that smell.
But it was it was one of the gritten the Smith core core the
Smith God he was Dutch guy Of course. He was really like, you
know, tall lanky, strong dude and just watching him bang those
those cars you get the standard, poor shoe from from the horse
shoe factory. You got to make it fit for the horse. It was, it
was one of the most exciting times in my life. And I
remembered so I can still I can still smell that burning hoof.
It was, it was very fulfilling, versus the electronics store
where I work later, where I sold resistors and transistors and
capacitors and solder and stuff like that. Although the smell of
solder not bad either, not a bad smell of solder even that, do
kids even know how to solder anymore.
Dave Jones: Know. The easy problems are all in technology,
the easy problems are all solved. They were all solved a
long time ago. You know that? That's that's the thing. Now,
this bothers me about noster because they seem to have this
idea, that prob that, that there's some easy solution to
things that are inherently impossibly difficult, like
decentralization, and that they're kidding themselves. The
easy stuff already has answered it was already answered long
ago.
Adam Curry: That's interesting. You say that because I follow
the damos developer through through the noster to activity
pub bridge. So I follow him on podcast index dot social. And I
see him making stuff that is so centralized. It's not even
decentralized. It's all centralized. So I mean, it's
just yeah. And you can see people replying, hey, you know,
turn off the damos relay. Yeah, no nostril will collapse.
Dave Jones: It's moving. It's more. Yeah. And the things that
I see them saying are more like, we're about to make
decentralized shopping the thing you can't stop us figured out
something brand new that nobody's ever seen before. Okay,
so there's again, another clip, there's, it reminded me of John
Carmax interview on the LEX Friedman show. And he made this
statement, and it has stuck like a thorn in my brain ever since.
And it has bothered me. And I think it was the impetus for all
of the thinking that I have had to do about this topic. This
week. It's he's talking about artificial into artificial
intelligence, specifically AGI or you know, general
intelligence. And he's acting as if there are easy answers to
this, that we just have to wait around for
Unknown: the artificial general intelligence side of things.
I'm, it seems to me like this is the highest leverage moment for
potentially a single individual, potentially, in the history of
the world, where the things that we know about the brain about
what we can do with artificial intelligence. Nobody can say
absolutely on any of these things. But I am not a madman,
for saying that it is likely that the code for artificial
general intelligence is going to be 10s of 1000s of lines of
code, not millions of lines of code. This is code that
conceivably one individual could write, unlike writing a new web
browser operating system. And based on the progress that AI
has machine learning has made in the recent decade, it's likely
that the important things that we don't know, are relatively
simple, there's probably a handful of things. And my bet is
that I think there's less than six key insights that need to be
made, each one of them can probably be written on the back
of an envelope. We don't know what they are. But when they're
put together, in concert with GPUs at scale, and the data that
we all have access to, that we can make something that behaves
like a human being or like a living creature, and that can
then be educated in whatever ways that we need to get to the
point where we can have universal remote workers where
anything that somebody does mediated by a computer and
doesn't require physical interaction. And that an AGI
will be able to do we can already simulate the, you know,
the equivalent of the zoom, the Zoom meetings with avatars, and
if synthetic deep fakes and whatnot, we can definitely do
that. We have superhuman capabilities on any narrow thing
that we can, that we could formalize and make a loss
function for. But there's things we don't know how to do now. But
I don't think they are unapproachable or hard. Now,
that's incredibly hubristic to say that it's like, but I think
that what I said a couple years ago is a 50% chance that
somewhere, there will be signs of life of AGI in 2030. And I've
probably increased that slightly. I may be at 55 60%.
Now because I do think there's a little sense of acceleration
there.
Dave Jones: He's kidding himself. But he's completely
delusional. There's let me give him the let me just give one
cynical example.
Adam Curry: Can I give you my theory about all of this before
you give us your example? Yeah, sure. My theory is ultimately
everybody wants a robot for porn. That's all that it is.
That's all that we're every sees like, I want a robot for porn.
That's, that's what it is. I don't see. And then as men and
women alike, we don't really want anything else.
Dave Jones: This it all comes? Well, it all comes back to it
all comes back to the AI question. de ar question being
the the ai ai being the end, not the beginning. It's yeah, I
mean, that fits with what your title is, like. So I guess, I
don't know how long ago this was, maybe. Oh, gosh, it's got
to be 15 years ago, at least. Now, it's more than that. So I
was really involved with this assembly, Windows assembly
language community called MASM, MASM, 32. So we, it was the
first open source software community I was a part of. And
there was a great developer, he's still around somewhere
called his handle was mad wizard. And he was just top
notch. And he wrote all kinds of killer assembly software for
Windows. He went on to develop some USB drivers for like custom
where you can do custom modules and that kind of thing, which
was cool. But he wrote this thing one time, it was a very
simple tool that would just enumerate all of the network
interface cards, and your Windows machine can give you
information by giving the MAC address give me remember, this
is 2002 Or three.
Adam Curry: Right now. We have defconfig dash a
Dave Jones: with Windows XP air. And so he writes this tool in
and I'm looking through the source and it doesn't work,
right. There's this one class of network interface cards, that it
can't find it was like a ton adapter or something like that.
So no matter what you did, you wouldn't show it. So I'm looking
through there and I found a found some obscure documentation
on Microsoft's win 32 API. This showed that this specific type
of network interface card, you had a constant in the windows
3132 API that he was not accounting for. So what he had
done is he admit he had made this little he had made this,
this little macro, a simple language macro, that was
constructing the constants that he was going to use for lookups,
building a lookup table, essentially, in memory. based on
a formula, it was like, adding 100 at each time or something to
this bitmask. So he was building this thing in memory with this
macro when he first launched. And the interesting thing is,
all of the constants were just easily he could just do this, go
right through, right, they all fit the same mathematical
algorithm. This one constant did not. So in order to support this
type of network interface card within the win 32 API, he had to
get rid of this elegant, three line macro, and build in just a
static table of constants. Now, he has just had to make his code
ugly and less modular to support this other thing. And this, this
is what I'm talking about. We we can't stop this process from
happening. There's no way in which like, like John Carmack
has said, he's deluding himself. There, there is no easy answers
anymore. You can't you he is still operating under this idea.
That there's this, that it's possible to have elegant, easy,
simple solutions to difficult problems. And that is, that is
not accurate, either.
Adam Curry: I'm gonna say I would actually posit, based on
what you're saying, in my own thinking, my own independent
thinking is AI. First of all, it's a buzzword, it's the new
blockchain, whatever, it's only going to create more employment
opportunities, not less, more. There'll be many more people
necessary to support this stuff for the reason you just laid
out.
Dave Jones: But you see I'm more pessimistic.
Adam Curry: Okay, could you get even more mummery on me?
Dave Jones: I'm more pessimist in this because so much stuff
happened this week that's just sort of like all played in
together. Mark Marco Hill Linna at Linode in a Marco posted
publicly that Linode is now that their own Bochum I just for just
randomly told him that they're going to down his server for a
migration. Like in the middle of the day for eight he's gonna
have eight hours of downtime Marco
Adam Curry: from overcast Marco overcast. Oh, so they just sent
him a note will ping or mass email like, hey, screw your
business?
Dave Jones: Pretty much. Yeah, exactly. And And guess what? The
way I see this resolving is is the Exodus, people are going to
start just on a technological level, people are going to start
checking it out. I've already seen it happening. I've already
seen people that are getting they're detaching from social
media. They're tired of it. They can't, they're there. They're
not able to process it.
Adam Curry: I agree. I see this everywhere we have we have long
reach peak social media, particularly with the advent of
threads. You have all these choices. What am I on what's
authoritative? Twitter has become, you know, Tina took a
one month sabbatical from, from all social media, which I
thought was it was pretty good. She it was interesting to see
what she was doing instead. And, and now she's back on Twitter.
And in that one month, he says, Well, I don't have a blue check.
I don't really want to spend any money on this. And you know,
now, half the people I see their subscription only. I can't
scroll further back in someone's timeline, because you need to be
blue check for that. And and she and she just wasn't like, a
couple of weeks ago. I'm bored. I'm bored. It's stupid. All I
see is some outrage. I'm not even interested anymore. It's I
think it's peaks. And she's my canary. Yeah, but I'm seeing
more of it. I'm seeing more people just checking out. And
well, I have my own reasons to think that there people are
turning to other things, many other things outside of
technology together.
Dave Jones: And I think we need to preserve podcasting. This
brings it all back to podcast. Yes, thanks. I think we need to
preserve
Adam Curry: one hour and we're back to podcast.
Dave Jones: Because here's a permit me to permit me to read
this passage.
Adam Curry: This is a point of personal privilege permission
granted, of course.
Dave Jones: This is from the technological society by Jacques
Ellul. This explains Another characteristic of the books
written after the century of humanism, their lack of
convenience, we find few tables of contents, no references, no
division intersections, no indices, no chronology,
sometimes not even page nation. The apparatus standard for
scientific works today is not found even rudimentary in the
most perfect works of the period. And its absence is
characteristics of the absence of intellectual technique. The
books of the time were not written to be used along with
hundreds of others, to locate a piece of information accurately
and quickly, or to validate or invalidate an experiment or to
furnish a formula. They were not written to be consulted. They
were written to be read patiently in their entirety,
amen To be meditated upon. Again, this goes back to the
ideal of universality. The presentation of a book, as an
author's entire self, is a personal expression of his very
being supposes that the reader sought in it not the solution of
a given difficulty, or the answer to a given problem, but
rather to make personal contact with the author. It was more a
question of personal exchange than if taking an objective
position.
Adam Curry: Wow, totally applicable to podcasting.
Dave Jones: That's what podcasting is. That's what's an
island.
Adam Curry: This is what we discussed on the previous show.
And by the way, got a lot of beautiful emails and notes from
people saying, yes, yes, this is what I got into podcasting for
there's one guy who does a half hour podcast a week with his son
whose house it was across the country at college. And he says,
he's connected me to massage. I don't care if there's three if
there's no one listening. It's connecting us and people are
able to listen in and then it inspires them to connect with
their children. The connection between audience and I'll say,
content creator, but that's not even really applicable. Even
died by itself is as always been a word. A noun that bothers me.
That connection has been so lost in the podcast and Industrial
Complex of CPMs and pixels and, and all that stuff. It's
completely gone away from what it originally was voices.
Dave Jones: Yeah, just That's why That's why that interview
made me sad is because I was like, No, this is this is all
taken this is all technology being applied to a medium.
That's what this medium is where books were in the, in the 16th
century. We need to get it needs to stay there. Because otherwise
we create a technological framework around podcasting,
that's going to kill it. Think he told that tracking pixels and
all this that mean like this is that this is is ultimately going
to fail for reasons beyond their control? It It damages the
medium in the process?
Adam Curry: Yes. Now, I am not so bearish on chapters, I think
chapters, you know, there's a very valid connective reason for
them. Outside of, oh, I'm bored, I want to skip ahead. And I've
always been looking for that I personally like the different
art pieces of art, which is what Dred Scott does for us as much
as humanly can. Which, which gives me joy. You know, I don't
look at the chapters to skip ahead. Wow, this is boring.
Where's my next thing? No, I looked at the chapters, in fact,
that we said didn't help you skip ahead. I looked at the
chapters just for the joy of the art or, you know, or something
else that has been added to it. That's how I've always you know,
that's how I've always viewed them way, way different from,
from anything. That is, uh, yeah, I'm just different. Yeah.
Dave Jones: I love chapters. And I think this is a couple of
things there. I think things like that. There's a, they have
to exist. Like, there's, you see a thing and this, this is
another aspect of this is this. It becomes self fulfilling. So
like the chapters as a technology is it there's a sense
in which it must exist? So we have to create it? I mean, we
didn't create it. I'm just saying like, there, we have to
take it to its fullest extent. And I'm totally cool with that.
And I love that. And I love chapters, which I think we have
to be, I'm trying to be honest, and saying that those criticisms
that apply to technology and technological velocity in
general. Also apply. We don't get a free pan. Oh, we don't
know we don't because I see occasionally I'll have an
episode that has chapters in it. And the chapters are all messed
up. And I get frustrated. And I'm like, Oh, these aren't,
these aren't. The timestamps are right,
Adam Curry: you should try it, you should try working with a
split kit.
Dave Jones: I actually did, I started messing around with
sovereign feeds this week.
Adam Curry: Sovereign feeds. So this is a good point, because
I'm so reliant upon Steven B's work. And, you know, because he
changes stuff, you know, he's always upgrading doing things,
and he does it pretty much in production. And you know, of the
100 times I use it, you know, there's one time but not it's
not even to watch one time that it just breaks or something
happens. And you know what, I'm able to get a hold of him. And
then we've never had a very disastrous thing. But at that
moment, my heart sinks everything like Oh, no. And
like, even on the last, the previous because I was still
getting used to split kit. And it was quite the transition from
having my head how everything works with value time splits,
and in sovereign feeds, and then I was taking I was putting the
split kit, and my just couldn't quite wrap my head around how it
was working with live versus what you then import for the,
for the show. And while I was producing last week's episode,
after we're done, you know, I put the new intro on and I'm
going I'm getting I'm trying to queue everything up, and I'm
just, I'm like, oh my god, I'm not going to get this done. I'm
not I don't understand it. And I had to, you know, just stop for
a second like, okay, you know, because I have to line up the
the in Split kid have to put the right time code in this is all
this complexity that came in, which is actually not that
complex. I just couldn't wrap my head around it. And it gave me a
sinking feeling like I can't publish the show until I figured
this out.
Dave Jones: It's, we call it I think we call it scissors as a
defense as a emotional defense mechanism. Because because we're
kind of scared of his of the of all this stuff to it like, and
it's that it's that paradox within all of us. If you've been
in it long enough. You sent me that clip of Leo this week and I
felt this was sort of sort of tangential to that it was sort
of part of the same thing. If you've been in In the
information technology world in any capacity for long enough,
you eventually get, you eventually have reached this
paradox, where there's something in you that loves the technology
and loves the problem solving of it, and then the innovation and
the creation of the thing. But you're also so pessimistic and
so aggravated at it all. You're like, it's like these two things
that just feel like it like inextricably linked you hate it
and love it at exactly the same time. And it feels like you've
ripped your brain apart.
Adam Curry: I hear you, I hear you. Well, there is something.
So I'm extremely optimistic. And I know you're not pessimistic.
But when it comes to podcasting, and I've been dreaming about
this, not just like, for 19 years, hoping we could make this
happen somehow, but I'm actually having dreams about the new
category of podcasts that are going to come on the scene. That
is podcast with music and music is so powerful. And there is so
much creativity being put into music not in the mainstream.
Because the mainstream is very formulaic for a whole bunch of
reasons. It's it's truly one of those systems and is broken, it
doesn't work it does doesn't even work for for your typical
mainstream artists. They're not making money on music, they're
not getting value returned. Me, it's just a rat race you've got
to be in you've got to turn around in that tub. Otherwise,
you can't even do anything. It is it's like a turd in his pot.
Well, that was a that was a translation of a Dutch ism. The
Dutch ism is unrolling and pisspot which means it's just
swirling around like a turd into pisspot. I know.
Dave Jones: Love that the Dutch word sound is just is just the
word Pittsburgh,
Adam Curry: Pittsburgh. So next week, you're on vacation yet
you're taking the day off deal. And so that means there will be
no board meeting however, that will be the launch of boosting
Rambo booster Graham ball will I'm gonna launch it in this time
slot. Nice and I'm gonna do it live and do it live and we'll do
it live.
Dave Jones: Where are you? Are you gonna do a feed drop? A feed
drop?
Adam Curry: What's a feed drop?
Dave Jones: Where you put your episode and somebody else's
feed? No, no, no, no, the booster ball this Instagram ball
in the podcast and
Adam Curry: I hadn't even thought of that idea feels icky
doesn't feel right I would prefer that mean I'm I have
boosted grand ball.com I haven't haven't launched the website yet
I got work to do. Which which by itself will be interesting. But
I have in my head I know what I'm going to do. And which means
I'm going to freewheel it because that's kind of the whole
point. What I want to get back to is that I'm playing music or
playing music at that moment because of how I feel. I want to
have the interaction of the chat room. So I will always record
this before a live studio audience even though most people
probably not going to release until Saturday. I felt like
Saturday would be an interesting day to release the music show
Dave Jones: because you're going to do it live on Friday at noon
and then you're going to do you're going to actually put it
in the feed on Saturday.
Adam Curry: Yeah, well the feed drop will be the release of
every episode My plan is currently is to have it on
Saturday so if I record the show on Wednesday night or what I
mean whatever it is that's what that's what I'm going for. We'll
have to kind of see live experience Yeah, the live
experience will will not that will be kind of like like a like
a rave you know, it's like oh the live experience is
happening. You get you get the flyer you get the flyer oh it's
happening okay. Yeah, but it won't be a set time is you have
to hear about it through whatever channels and I got even
more enthusiastic when Sam from wave Lake sent us this note you
got to note too I did is great Yep. And he said young kid
trying to make it in music came to Bitcoin park with their
parents last week I saw the wavelength demo decided to take
a chance on value for value love to see it thought you might so
to the outside world is starting to see what's going on here. And
I thought wow, how cool is that? I mean this this is there's two
tracks one which is very sweet. You know, she's young, but a
very sweet kind of girly, you know, slow track and the other
one is a very kind of poppy track. So of course it being
Friday podcast and to point out I want to play the play the
poppy track, obviously. But I have other things TJ sir TJ the
wrathful who's been making all these cool mixes for no agenda
and carrying the keeper and he released his music, which is the
dorsals that's I'm going to play that on the on next week show on
the on the first Bookstagram Ball.
Dave Jones: I mean, this isn't her day.
Adam Curry: Oh is good is good. I don't want to play that on
today's show. I want to play this this young woman who just
said you know, hey, I'm gonna give it a shot and the reason
why is a because I liked the song B and I and there's not a
lot of music I really don't like I mean I have an eclectic tastes
but I'm open to everything and it turns out that most people
are no don't say oh, it's horrible I would turn it up
there's not there's not much of that it's not a lot and but I
also want her to have a good experience because literally
what Sam is saying she decided to take a chance on value for
value. So why don't we show her that her chance pays off love it
her taking a chance so if you're listening live me you know
you've got to use curio caster I know that works for sure in the
live experience. Otherwise we now have we've got fountain
we've got pod verse we've got pod friend we've got curio
caster you can do it directly from the from split kit in fact
after the fact go back and listen to it and boost her
because I really want her to have a good experience and to
give you guys something special I'm and I'm hoping that this
this podcast booster Graham ball will be like almost like every
other project I do where people start to send in their own gene
goals their own sound imaging their own cool stuff so that we
are making this together I did put something together myself
had a little bit of fun in the studio oh really kind of like
kind of like a show opener you know just threw some stuff
together and home I'll I'll turn on her block right now so
everyone can get ready for for the block and we'll take this
little break while we play this song with my opener started off
boosting is love
that's how I want to start a show so she dropped by the
Bitcoin Park took a chance on value for value let's let her
see what a good choice that was
Unknown: on a mind
Good
day to the corner of the room that you want us to have all
given back to cry like a little Boy.
Adam Curry: Ainsley Costello, the chair On top podcasting 2.0
Dave Jones: What a song man that's a rad song. I love it.
Adam Curry: It's like a little Taytay you know a little more
rockin than Taylor Swift. Yeah, I like that's a great
Dave Jones: tune man. Yeah, it's cool. It says she local to
Nashville.
Adam Curry: I think so. I don't know. i This is the one thing
I'd love from wavelength because I'd love a little more info on
each artist. You're linked to her, but maybe there is I
haven't just really looked for it. But I'll need more info for
and it's like I know what's going to happen. People are
gonna be sending me music from all over the world. I know how
this goes. Um, so what do you think my opener by the way?
Dave Jones: Oh, this kid's great. Really good. Yeah. You
did all that yourself. Like you put it all together? Oh, yeah,
we did you have to record anything new or just use old
clips? Yeah, no, I
Adam Curry: did the in there. You hear a boost to grandpa.
Grandpa did that. Literally like that?
Dave Jones: Night? Like that tune has a real Paramore early.
Paramore. Oh,
Adam Curry: S Yes. Oh, yeah. Where they thought about
Dave Jones: before they suck. You did a great job on opener
that's gonna keep
Adam Curry: now this one. So I have all kinds of things
already, like tracks and SATs, you know, all kinds of cool
stuff I can say. Now, I didn't mention this on the last show.
But I have decided and this will make it even more fun. It'd be
this in a way plays into what you were saying. But I really
want to try this. I want to release this on IPFS podcasting.
Dave Jones: Okay, I'm trying to put by the way, I'm working in
the background to try to put together some guests that we can
talk about IPFS podcasting. And so we can have like a roundtable
on it, you know, and I've got the own the weak link. No
offense, Cameron, but the weak link is Cameron because he lives
in the middle of like, the middle of the woods. Oh, yeah.
He lives in the forest.
Adam Curry: Thoughts. So he lives
Dave Jones: in a lane to in the middle of the forest shanty? And
he's just he just told me when I contact him, he's like, he's
like, Dude, my internet's so bad. I'm not sure he's like,
Well, you know, I gigabit internet, Ethernet soon, but
Adam Curry: I can bring him in on the phone. I can do a phone
link.
Dave Jones: Oh, you can? Because you get
Adam Curry: on the road. Yeah, I can just bring him in on the
phone. Like, no problem. That'll work. Okay, let's do it. I mean,
I could probably even filter to make it sound pretty reasonable
if he's on these on, like a modern phone. But a flip phone
will work. I don't care. Well, whatever it is. Yeah, sure,
we'll do that. So IPFS 444, pod IPFS podcasting. IPFS
podcasting.net. In essence, all I do is I upload my my track,
well, I I have to create a feed which will do with sovereign
feeds. And I still have to kind of put the whole process
together in my head. But the bottom line is that it will work
in all podcast apps. Then he set it up now that if you pin a feed
and and hosts the cache the pain I guess, the assets of that feed
them which I'm not saying this, right, but if I add a split to
IPFS podcasting into my value block, then whoever whenever i
Whenever a request comes into IPFS podcasting.net I think it's
whoever at that point serve the file maybe I'm not sure but
anyway, it gets split up episode and that goes to the to the
people who are hosting the the track itself. Okay, so
Dave Jones: there's a lot more but I say there's there's a lot
more love and interest for IPFS within people in podcasting than
I realized. And the more people I talk to the more people are
like have an interest in trying to get it to be functional. Yes,
Jay like Jason every podcast guru, he's got BFS guy.
Adam Curry: So I want to be the guinea pig I want to be the
canary I want to be I want to be the thing that it'll be scissors
you know we'll be running with scissors as always, but I think
why not am
Dave Jones: over as your SAM over pod fans. He'll
Adam Curry: do it. Boy by the way. I forgot I forgot to
mention pod fans. Every single piece that we do is implemented
on pod fans. I am convinced Sam will want to be a part of this
with the IPFS part. Oh for sure. So I'm super super excited. I
said I had dreams about this. Dreams. And and there will be
more shows there's more shows coming with guys getting ready
and there's music being uploaded Suzanne Santo is coming next
week. Suzanne Santo she's a she's a she's an actress kind of
turned musician. She has a record deal but she you know she
She hates what it's become. She's a she's a have like a very
beautiful kind of folksy singer who plays a badass strat. I
mean, I've heard her do solos unbelievable and she and right
now she's think she's six months pregnant and we went to see her
do a gig and she had she
Dave Jones: just burnt she was wearing out the fretboard with a
with a with a baby in the oven. Yeah
Adam Curry: baby in the oven and she had her sneakers on
underneath her hot hot black dress. Nice and her husband Nick
he is the guy who created produced wrote two detectives
you know the the the Netflix series that was a huge hit the
one that did it True Detective to detect the other one with
Woody Harrelson and, yeah, okay, so, so and they're just they
moved to Austin, they they escaped California. And so I've
been talking to her about this, and she really wants to get
involved, she wants to release some music value for value. You
know, so in that case, I mean, they just come in to hang out
but I really want to give her a little walkthrough. I'm
convinced that she will write some music that will be
specifically for for value for value, just you know, just to
get people going, you know, get some get some names and show
that cuz you know, she made this is like, I got a, a million
streams, I got 80 bucks or something simple, it's
insulting. It's insulting. She says she really has to do gigs
to make any money on it. And she just likes doing it because she
likes doing it. But she wants value. And it's not a it's not
about how much money it is. It's about just a faceless, you know,
dashboard from from Spotify, you know, it's not not the same
thing as getting a boost to Graham.
Dave Jones: But this goes back to my depressing PowerPoint is
there we have to be the we've we've we're here with with a
catcher's mitt, we're catching, we're catching it. Everybody who
exits the technological system we're catching, we're
Adam Curry: catching, oh, we got you. We got you know, we got we
got you.
Dave Jones: We just set them down gently on the bed of
podcasting. 2.0.
Adam Curry: So when I hear this stuff, I just get so excited. I
just like, oh, this is so cool. I like it. I like it and, and
going back to the to my opening statement that the strike is
really going to open up so many opportunities for people for
frustrated. It's all it's radio and television artists to you
know, it's not just as podcasters is all kinds of
people who are affected by the strike. And and I think that you
know, late night television is over, they're done. It's you
know, that's been off air for two months, people have already
changed their behaviors they're looking at, they're looking at
tick tock before they go to sleep for their for their little
laugh their little hit, I don't think that will ever come back.
It was always already pretty dead. You know, the numbers just
really aren't there. And I think people are very easy to switch
and they get used to stuff and they hear something that is new
and fresh. And they hear podcasts. And luckily, we have a
much less crowded market right now. There's not as much new
stuff being shoved in your face because the podcast industrial
complex is sadly not really working out too well. For them,
for them. I'm not dancing on anybody's grave or anything. But
you know, it's just really not working. I was funny. I got I
got a pitch from Google podcasts, which was a new one a
new pitch.
Dave Jones: What Yeah, I mean, for for what for no agenda, or
Adam Curry: it was not even clear. For what show this
probably from no agenda. And I can share some of this because I
wound up signing an NDA, just to find by wanting to go one step
further to find out what it was, oh,
Dave Jones: what they're really doing well, well, the
Adam Curry: NDA was really like the most vanilla. So it's not
from the from YouTube themselves. But it's from a guy.
I won't name isn't it? We'll just call him Pete.
Dave Jones: Who was a paid from YouTube?
Adam Curry: That yes, Pete from YouTube in London. And I believe
because he found my name and email address in a EC two, which
is, you know, I think was shortage where I had an office.
So he somehow thinks I'm a UK based podcaster God forbid, you
know, he researched me right? That would be stupid. So he's a
strategic partner, manager, YouTube, Google, LLC, London,
UK. And he sent this through different avenues including
LinkedIn. And, and, and so you know, it's Hello. That's it.
Hope this is. At first I'm like, this is bullcrap. But you know,
the, it's poorly written. It's really It's so poor what Google
is doing because this is not really a person who works
directly from YouTube but they have consultants or strategic
partner manager with Ever that means so Pete says, Hello. Hope
this email finds you. Well, my name is Pete. But I work on a
team at YouTube that helps podcasters launch and grow on
the platform. I'm reaching out to you as I'd love to share the
details of a grant, we'd like to offer you to help ramp you up on
YouTube along with an X with an access to our RSS. So right
there, I'm like an access to our RSS. I don't know what you're
talking about. What does that even mean? To go through the
details? I will need to send you over an NDA that will one prove
you're talking to Google and engage each other to keep
confidential the information you and I will be sharing. Would
that work? If so can you confirm the name of the signatory and
email address for the NDA? If there's any doubt in my on my
identity, you can check my LinkedIn profile, see that my
email address domain is google.com, which is not
falsifiable. Looking forward to hearing back from you. Thanks.
Best regards, Pete.
Dave Jones: Wow. Sounds a lot.
Adam Curry: Yeah. All right. Well, I'm interested now because
I keep for a week now I'm hearing Cridland talk about
YouTube launching podcasts in other countries like this is
part of it, or what is it and it's poorly written? The English
is not great. And like, what is they doing? So okay, but I don't
answer right away. Because I had to think about it and like, Oh,
whatever. And I got busy. And then I get another email. Hello.
Following up on my previous email, I'm happy to have a first
call before sending the NDA. We are not asking for exclusivity.
We have an RSS feature, I can give you access to it. We're
happy to give you give a special grant. There it is, again,
because feedback is a gift if you're not interested. I would
and I would like to understand why we can give you a grant
YouTube has a huge audience and revenue incremental opportunity.
I'm happy to share your thoughts with the podcast team. Thanks.
Best regards, Pete.
Dave Jones: So that's, that's three occurrences of we're gonna
give you a grant. Yeah, really, really hammering that one home,
Adam Curry: right. So I say, Well, you know, I'm kind of
interested in this grant. You're talking about pi Adam, thank you
for your answer. But I'll need to send you an NDA to provide
you with all the details. However, let me provide you with
some context. While YouTube is probably my primarily known as a
video first platform, we've observed a growing interest in
podcast and recognize the immense potential for podcasters
to reach a wider audience, generate revenue, and even
create a more immersive experience by incorporating
video into their podcast episodes. To further develop you
YouTube podcasts in the UK, we are actively seeking to enhance
our catalogue, with the highest quality podcasts available in
the market. Oh, here it is such as no agenda. We are not
requesting exclusivity, but rather aiming for content parity
with other platforms. Our ultimate goal is not to redirect
audiences from other platforms to YouTube. Listen, this again,
our ultimate goal is not to redirect audiences from other
platforms to YouTube. But to offer you increased reach and
exposure through exposure through YouTube as a versatile
platform, podcast music and videos with 2 billion users
every month, we understand that uploading content to another
platform can present challenges, which is why we are prepared to
offer you a grant and provide access to our RSS feature. This
is intended to facilitate the content upload process and offer
additional support. To go further, I kindly request you to
sign the NDA. Once that is complete, we can schedule a call
to discuss further opportunity. So I get the NDA. And the NDA
basically says anything you already knew before we were
talking before this NDA was signed, is fair game. So hence
all the emails I was happy to read. I can tell you that the
grant talk kind of wasn't the first thing that we wanted to
talk about.
Dave Jones: Okay, wait, let me let me let me let me ask you,
did you talk to him? Invite him on the phone like no person? No.
Adam Curry: Because he said, I signed the NDA. I was like,
Okay, let's have a call said no. Tell me about the grant. And
these guys, they don't know what they're doing. They don't give a
crap about podcasting. I can say this. That, you know, that I
believe it is their mission. It was not explicitly said, but I
believe it is their mission to just get everybody to do video.
And I think you can get a grant if you want to go down that
route. But I did not have any discussion with him further
about it. And then I said I'm not interested. And he said,
wow, okay, well, would you tell me why and I told him why
Dave Jones: value for value. Did you talk about vase? No,
Adam Curry: I said you're a sinkhole. You know, you just I
think I have my answer here.
Dave Jones: You can we Is this where the exit interview? Why
Why would you not like to have our grant? Because you're a
saint. Oh, no.
Adam Curry: No, though. The grant the grant was really not
the grant. Wasn't I can just tell you the grant was like, You
know what? not buying content knob, you know, in certain
circumstances, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that kind of went
away because of how I felt it. But I can read you what I wrote.
The reason why, let me see hold on is that my sent emails here
we go. Podcasts are meant to be distributed via an RSS feed that
the players apps, websites, etc, are to consider the source of
truth. When a show is added gets added downstream. The opposite
is also true. This is not how Google operates their podcast
offering in quotes, you're asking podcasters in effect to
abandon that system. Google has a horrible reputation when it
comes to respecting and supporting RSS feed. See, Google
Reader admits this. Google is calling these non RSS feed day
shows podcast which they are not since that specifically means
RSS based distribution. In my opinion, this is a hijack of the
term podcast at best and a disingenuous use of the term to
build up a competency on the backs of 1000s of developers and
content creators over a span of 20 years. It's not a good look,
I cannot support Google calling as offering podcasts then will
in fact, speak out against it. And, and then he's like,
Dave Jones: Did you follow that up by saying, Oh, can we talk
about the grants?
Adam Curry: And then he said no, because he had asked me to share
why. And then you know, he comes back says I think there's a
misunderstanding around our intention. That's a shame. But
thank you for taking the time to share the feedback. You know,
the whole discussion, which I didn't discuss anything we
discussed, this confidential guys, great, have a great day.
And I said it'd be equally helpful if you explained my
misunderstandings. What did I misunderstand about your
offering? And he never answered? No, of course not.
Dave Jones: That's stunning. I'm surprised that he never answered
that. This. So this is this sounds like this is just me,
this is me. This is me talking. You have not talked to me about
any of this. No, this sounds like just an extension or a
redirection of the same thing that they were doing before,
which was they had a grant program, where they were
supposed to supposedly going to give popular podcasts like
$50,000 to start or something like that dangerous,
Adam Curry: the number of video interesting number to start
doing
Dave Jones: videos. So I'm assuming that that that that
program just became this program. And it's basically the
same thing. That's an interesting
Adam Curry: assumption, which I cannot talk about. But I think
that assumption is definitely interesting as an idea.
Dave Jones: Right. So this this is I've got an ISO for this. Oh.
So that's why
Adam Curry: I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm excited. And I
would just like to remind us that calling this podcast is
just lame, it's not Google podcast, they're not launching
podcasting anywhere. If I am, and this is one thing we need to
discuss, if I add something to my feed, it needs to be added
everywhere. The the converse is true. And we need to talk about
that, because we had an issue that was confusing to me. If
someone takes something out of their feed, or changes,
something that also needs to be reflected downstream, this is
actually a problem for us. Because we don't necessarily
rescan the entire feed.
Dave Jones: So I have a lot of, there's a lot of his law here,
Adam Curry: let me let me let me give the makeup of the
background so people understand what happened. There was a hair
on fire moment, like, oh my god, someone's getting sued if this
still available on the index, and we have to get rid of it and
as has to be taken out. You gotta do it. This is what
creators want. And, and I actually misunderstood initially
thinking what so someone's deleted something and I mean, do
they delete in their feed, it wasn't even clear to me. And, of
course, for sure, it'll take any any platform or any index, some
time to reflect any changes that are made. But there's ways to
trigger that and there's, there's, there's assumptions
people have. So I know that by the way, when I screw something
up in my feed, it's bad. Me or the I screwed up. I screwed up a
good and I didn't I didn't know what happened. The end it just
and thank God, you know, lots of people jumped in and said, Hey,
you screwed this up. And you know, Stephen has now made that
a little bit more foolproof and sovereign feeds but And
eventually when I when I fix things properly in the right way
and a GUID is one way, surefire way to do it, things do shake
out down the line, but it takes several days. And it's my fault.
And it's my problem. But the way this was presented was like,
Well, you know, podcast index is no good, you've got to do this,
you've got to do what creators want. I'm like, hold on a
second. Take it away.
Dave Jones: The the reason that we don't do this in real time.
What I mean by so what I mean by is like, somebody publishes an
episode in their feed. And then let's say a week later, they
delete that episode from their feed. Why does it still show up
in the podcast index for days or weeks afterwards. But the reason
we don't do this in real time is because it is. It is expensive
from a performance standpoint, on a database. The episodes
table is the most active database is the most active
table in the entire database. It has about a row at any one given
time, it's got about 120 million rows in it. If you when you do a
delete when you issue a delete a sequel Delete on a table it
temporarily locks the table because it can't allow any
changes to happen in the table until the Delete is finished and
locks the whole table. Yes, delete is an atomic operation
meaning Yes, it is it is a touch, which sounds like a
Beastie Boys song, atomic operation that that must
complete before anything else can can then proceed. Because
otherwise you could you could potentially be updating a record
that deletes right out from under you. You could be halfway
finished updating a title and an episode and then the episode
just disappears. So deletes are always atomic. So you have to so
it it temporarily locks the table from rights in order to
complete the Delete. Well, that means if you do it in what we
have is not we have nine aggregators. We have nine
aggregators that are doing about about 2000 fields per minute of
scanning that is a lot of deletes. And so, if we you can
see it happen if I enable if I enable this functionality, which
the code is there, if I enable it, what you will see is the
aggregators are chugging along, and then once every minute or so
everything stops and ask your question. Yes,
Adam Curry: when I reset a feed or I'm sorry, rescan a feed does
that. What does that create? If episodes are missing, do those
then have to be deleted from the episode table?
Dave Jones: It when you rescan a feed the first thing it does is
removes all the episodes. Not recently when you when you reset
a feed,
Adam Curry: rescan. I just want to understand the difference
between rescan reset so rescan, it just looks for something new
and refreshes it's not not going back in time and looking at
everything or is it? No, it's not.
Dave Jones: That's a reset. The reset says look at every just
basically put it exactly back to the way it is in the feed right
now.
Adam Curry: So that does require deletes, it deletes everything
at that moment, and thus locks the date of the episode table.
Yes. Wow. If I'm powerful.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so like, if you were, if you were to go in
there, and let's say let's say that there's a podcast with 2500
episodes in it. There's plenty of those out there. Sure. If you
issue a, a feed reset on that. It's gonna look to the episodes
table for maybe 1520 seconds. Wow. Which
Adam Curry: is quite a lot. Quite a long time actually.
Dave Jones: And so it's more it's more pronounced than you
think. Because what happened? Let's take you take no agenda
for example, you keep was it 10 episodes and feed it anytime?
Adam Curry: No, it's much more now ever since the whole
goodness. I'm afraid to even look how many I have a lot. I
should probably prune that sucker or paginate or paginate.
I don't know I gotta do something.
Dave Jones: Don't do that.
Adam Curry: Oh, I'm not doing anything. I'm not
Dave Jones: touching it. So but there's plenty of feeds out
there and you used to be one of these where whenever you add a
new episode You pull off the old get to row run correct window of
episodes, yes, there's many of those. So when that happens,
there's so many of those feeds that do that. We're locking the
table all the time. So what, what I've done, I've had various
ways of trying to solve this problem.
Adam Curry: 40 by 140 in there now, by the way,
Dave Jones: for 40 episodes. So I've solved this problem various
times in the past using different methods. And the, the
thing that works the best from a performance standpoint for me is
that every time a feed updates it looks at, it looks at the
oldest episode, pub date and the newest episode pub date. And
then we have a cron job that comes along periodically, and
prunes everything, all the episodes older than the oldest
pub date that exists in the feed. And it's just a lazy
process that happens. And it's very lightweight and does not
hit the database hard. It means that that process can take a
while, like, so compare our compare our hosting and
budgetary constraints. So we have we roughly spend roughly
right now about $620 a month on hosting fees for virtual
machines. Let's compare that to mark overcast, who spends 5000
plus dollars a month. Yeah, right. He has. He agreed. He
said one time recently that he aggregates roughly a million
feeds, we aggregate over 4 million. Yeah, so you can see
the difference there, you can overcome this problem with sheer
horsepower. And money. We don't have that. So we have to be wise
about about the way that we allocate the things that we do.
So what the standpoint I've always taken is, if that we're
going to do this lazy process, whatever that process is, we're
going to do this lazy, sort of, you could call it like a
sweeper, you know, it comes along after the fact and cleans
up the mess. We're gonna do this sweeper, and 99% of the time,
that's fine. There's going to be 1% of the time or less, where
somebody is really concerned about something and wants
something taken down immediately. Right. In those
cases, they've always just emailed us. Yeah, we've we've
done a feed reset, right. And it's really not a problem. And
that's the only reason that I brought up the archive.org thing
is I'm like, I'm not so sure that there's legal problems
here.
Adam Curry: I mean, well, first of all, no, under Section 230,
we are, in fact immune from any type of legal issues. So is in
America, mind you in America, so is every other app in America,
etc. That's why section 230 exist. That was the whole point
doesn't mean that I that I don't want to service people. They
don't want to help them. And also, you know, sort of bemrose
actually said, quite appropriately, the public
Internet has no delete button. I mean, that is ultimately true.
You put it out there. That thing is cached somewhere for good.
Dave Jones: It is I mean, like, that's Yeah. And that's what I'm
like, Well, we're very responsive to somebody, if if I
want something taken off archive.org I need I can email
them and get it taken down, but then they're not going to look
for. And I know that our purposes aren't the same as
archive data. We don't want to be the archive of podcasting.
No, but but
Adam Curry: we're also not we don't have the files or anything
like that. I mean, we don't have any of that.
Dave Jones: But the language that this has come up before,
not just from James, this has come up from I think Daniel J.
Lewis, also said that there was some sort of legal problem and I
just don't think there is I don't think there's a legal
issue with caching content. And and let the only time you get
into a legal issue is if it's if you if the Creator asked you to
take it down and you don't, then you're then you're violating
DMCA and other things. And then then it's a problem, but I don't
think I don't think just simply being slow to remove a cached
copy is any problem at all?
Adam Curry: No, that's why I said hair on fire. Yeah. And
also hair on fire. urgency, makes people make mistakes, and
I certainly misunderstood what was going on. It's like what is
happening? I mean, I didn't understand I mean, we're all I
had to do really was just perform a reset, and then been
would have been fixed. You know, like emergency coding like what?
Dave Jones: And, yeah, I don't just just to be clear, again, I
don't want to catch this stuff. If somebody deletes it from
their feet I want to go I want to go from the into Sure, sure.
But it's sometimes I mean, like, I don't know, we got
constraints. I mean, we're gonna do the best we can. And, you
know, that's just got to be the way it the way it is. I mean, if
people want some taken down, they just just gonna have to,
like, count up their email.
Adam Curry: I can't wait to see what how Todd's new project is
going to work when we talk about that yet. Does that. Tell me
about this? You're on the email.
Dave Jones: No, no. Is this the thing that he said? We can't
talk about?
Adam Curry: Well, yeah, but I mean, can you tell? Can we talk
about it yet? Or we still can't talk? Is it? I don't know. I've
lost track if we could. I mean, this is Todd. He tells you I can
talk about it. Boy, I got. I don't know, he didn't put us
under NDA. Okay, but that's gonna be fun. Anyway, yes.
Sorry. I brought it up. I do get one other fun thing I want to
talk about, which I thought was kind of interesting. player.fm.
Are you familiar with familiar with player.fm?
Dave Jones: Why do I know that name? Well, it's a podcast
Adam Curry: player. It's a podcast player. Yeah, but I
don't think they have they have 2.0 Things I believe. Are they
on? Me? Check? Check. Let me see. I thought they were
Dave Jones: on the apps play me
Adam Curry: check. Because when they they hit me up for this
great opportunity. And then I said, Oh, do you have any
podcasting 2.0? Let me see if I see it here.
Dave Jones: People drop something on the on a pull
request. And I just did, but they don't really interact with
us. So don't forget, forget who they are.
Adam Curry: See them here. They may not well, anyway. They they
because they know I like having my email address in my feed
because I get these things. And I find that interesting. I don't
mind. Doing that player. FM player FM is one of the most
downloaded and highest rated podcast listening platforms
available on the Apple App Store and Google Play Store reaching
millions of unique users per month. It is owned and operated
by Maple media, a mobile app company based in Los Angeles,
California. The player FM app enables listeners to enjoy their
favorite shows and discover new ones through a seamless cross
platform playback experience on mobile web wearable, smart
devices, in car and in your apps. sponsored content. So they
have so they we offer direct advertising packages to help you
connect our engaged audience with your show. So they have all
these packages that you can buy from them to promote your show
on their app. You can get you can platinum, it let's see if we
were to get a two week flight sponsored content package. Well,
let's go for the bronze starter test package. Platinum sounds
better. Platinum, okay. We get put in the Discover carousel,
too. Yeah. They also have a whole onboarding. So was the
onboarding was kind of interesting. Whereas the
onboarding piece, new user onboarding, your podcast is
featured during the onboarding process, introducing your shows
and attracting new subscribers. I thought that was really
interesting. So if you send someone say, hey, try out pod
verse. Here's the link, you know, it's pod
verse.no agenda.com.net, dot whatever. No agenda dot pod
verse.the.fm. How about that, then you get you get the app,
then then no agenda will be highlighted as, as the first
show the minute you get the app. There's just a whole bunch of
interesting things. I thought that these guys were doing that
a lot of it's achy, and a lot of his expensive
Dave Jones: cars and the guy was Hopland it was the platinum
cost.
Adam Curry: Oh my god. $7,000. Oh, you get one to 1.2 million
impressions, three and a half to 5000 Plays 10,000 to 15,000
subscribers. So I guess they, they keep doing something and
they force people. And that's seven grand. But it's not so
much that I thought some of the some of the I put the link in
the show notes so people can take a look at the Google Doc.
It's just interesting for some of our app developers to think
about I mean, the idea of having an onboarding system that takes
people to my podcast when they onboard through it, or maybe and
by the way, this works perfectly well with value for value. mean
you've got fountain giving away SATs you've got beef pod fans is
I've been wild pod fans really should look at this because pod
fans basically already has SATs waiting for you as a podcaster.
That can be done you can do I'm sure Sam and put all kinds of
packages together. Maybe Maybe Sam is behind this company. I
don't know it looks like a SAM deal, to be honest. But it's
just smart. And I just thought you know this whole idea of
discovery and all this stuff. So you can buy this discovery from
these guys. But I think being able to send your listeners to a
place which gives you a bespoke personalized onboarding
experience was interesting. Was I agree interesting thing that
that people could do. And you know, and it looks at this doc,
there's a lot of different things that they do. They give
you it kind of like a pod page, which I like, I like pod page, I
pay for it for carrying the keeper.com. We don't have a
website, we just feed it our RSS feed and boom, we have a website
point, the DNS ad, it's good to go. And of course, another thing
that can go down, you know, obviously, but they have all
these different features that they give you. And so you can
get all these additional features based on your based on
your RSS feed that can be right in that app. So is this just
stuff to look at is what I'm saying? I was pleasantly
surprised by it.
Dave Jones: I'm looking at our page. So on the player.fm if you
look us if you look up us at the top, it says podcasts worth a
listen. It's kind of like right in the middle of the patient.
They're like dropping an ad for another podcast on our podcast
page. But it says over on the left hand side of this podcast
Supernote pod content provided by Adam curry and podcast index
LLC. What am I chopped liver?
Adam Curry: Where does that come from?
Dave Jones: I don't know. Don't exist on this page. Now. If you
gotta know, it says Adam curry and John Dvorak.
Adam Curry: Well, yeah, I mean, let me see what let me see what
a show info on a second. Maybe there's something the show in
what a show info keyword keywords podcasting, media
software, media type podcast. Don't have anything else in
there. Let me see owner info.
Dave Jones: They must pull it must be pulling out of the
owner, the iTunes owner or something like that tag? Well,
Adam Curry: I just added Dave Jones to the feed owner. Sorry.
Sweet. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Makes me happy. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I mean, I don't didn't do that on purpose.
Obviously. I was trying to find a way to ding them. The podcast
index, present podcasting. 2.0 upgrading podcasting. Is that in
there anywhere? Because that's what we have in our feed. And
that no, no content provided by Adam curry. So that should then
change theoretically, the Adam curry and Dave Jones sometime
when I guess maybe when I publish?
Dave Jones: I guess it's in the description? No, no, it's not in
the description in the Yes. In the description tag. I don't say
that upgrading podcasting thing. Yeah,
Adam Curry: but that doesn't surface and I really don't see
any any 2.0 features here.
Dave Jones: I mean, if you could get seven grand for for just
some.
Adam Curry: But forget, forget the money. Oh, interesting,
similar to podcasting 2.0, then I see no agenda pop up there. So
they're probably cross referencing me.
Dave Jones: They can know. I mean, there's there's lots of
yeah, there's lots of opportunity for here for I mean,
you know, we that apps needs podcasts and people know, apps
need staying power. They need revenue
Adam Curry: is what they need. But stand up, there was a stand
up for your podcast that it wasn't so much about the money
part, because whatever. I mean, I guess someone's gonna pay that
kind of cash, I won't. But I liked the personalized
onboarding and some of the other things that we're thinking
about. It's just, it's inspirational for some of our
developers to look at just see what those guys are doing.
Dave Jones: Yeah, let's say Nathan said that they did. The
maple media owns a whole mess of apps in various industries. And
one of their lines is like an equity app. Play.
Adam Curry: Oh, I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure.
Should we thank a few people. Dave Jones. Oh, yeah, sure.
Let's look at a couple of booths that have come in live where
we've been doing the show or live and lit air boob 808 from
Mr. Robot. Mr. Robot. Mr. Robot says YouTube, the centralized
censoring platform wants to get into podcasting. Yeah, right.
What's new?
Dave Jones: What's what's obviously did not sign the NDA.
Adam Curry: What's their new name? spook. rss.com No, thanks.
We'll stick to podcasting. 2.0 No, all right. Got a 2112 Mini
rush boosts from Dave Jones for obviously for Ainsley Costello
says what a great tune. Dred Scott 13,000 great music. This
of course goes mainly to Ainsley so she'll be very happy with
that. Short Row adduction Mahara fat 2222 And someone else from
curio caster with no name 2222 Martin 9876 sets. Happy Friday
music woohoo. Thank you. That'd be great. Mike Newman. Whoa,
whoa, hold on a second. Where's my There's my stripe stripe or
booths I should have that at the ready I don't understand why I
didn't have that I wanted to do it it's not in my it's not on my
system
Dave Jones: it's not on the pad
Adam Curry: it's not on the pad for some reason here we go. Oh,
and that's that's not well I'm really all over the place. Oh
hey, we tried this striper bow Steve Webb 7777 Great sound he
said that Steve the OG God caster checking it nice. See
dubs with 9999 I think that's also for Ainsley. Then we have
Sir Brian of London. This was earlier 31 31,948 his big
Israeli freedom boost. I'm alive. Despite waking up yay,
two meters from an exploding lizard exploding lithium battery
on a boat a few nights ago. I'm here to continue working on
podcasting. 2.0
Dave Jones: Welcome back, Brian. Yeah, we're
Adam Curry: glad we're glad we're glad you're alive.
Blueberry with a nice long row of ducks 22222 Speaking of
chapters based off the testing I did over the weekend, you can
take one second GIFs and stack them one to one in the chapter
file. One split kid plays podcasts mp3 is pasta chapter
art it'll it'll be certain you can use this combo to do a live
long form animated lit opener, scissor time timbers. He's all
over the gifs man. There was something else I read think
blueberry, where we was talking about something earlier before
we started the show. He says he was thinking of rigging up the
boost bot. So that if if and the boost bot and the ISO bot so if
it caught a certain word, it would automatically boost
something it's just very trippy. So it was like rosebud, then
automatically a boost would fire.
Dave Jones: This is going to bring gonna break something I
Adam Curry: know it's gonna break something for sure.
Dave Jones: It's gonna be there's gonna be a boost
Inception that just drains every
Adam Curry: Alright, yes, this will eventually go wrong. Short
road ducks from blueberry spent a summer at Middleton plantation
in Charleston, South Carolina. Blacksmithing 10 out of 10 would
recommend if you'd like it hot, heavy and dirty. That's exactly
what it is. trickler 2222 Go podcasting Tag you're it thank
you Eric p p with 22,222. Thank you very much. We love those
ducks. And we got I am Mr. Robot with a little pre show booth for
the board meeting. 3333 absurdity and with 101 Joel
dawned on me see No, no, no, no, that's it. Those are not all
people. I don't think I think vacation time has kicked in. We
don't we don't have a lot of people in the chat room either.
With your day, we're here. We're here.
Dave Jones: Speaking of tagging the trickler Christopher I've
seen is a he's working the city's still working diligently
to put together your daily source code or coffee.
Adam Curry: I know. And he sent me a whole bunch of requests,
which is cool, because you know, I had all these different
locations the curry castle, the curry condo, the bunker. And he
wants the the Geo coordinates so I'm going to get those forum to
use the the location tag. Oh, yeah. Now he's, he's got it.
It's very nice. I told him no value block. We can have that
because I played licensed music and all this stuff. Yeah. So
he's not going to put that in. And I think I'm going to give
him a server space. So they can upload everything. I'm very
excited about that. It'll be a nice piece of history that can
live on in perpetuity because I love the trick. Yeah, cuz you
know, void zero maintains all that so that'll be around for a
long time.
Dave Jones: Below the trickler we got let's see we got some
Yeah, we got to pay pals we got Marco coming in. Speaking of
Marco and the Linode debacle. We got $500 from market
Adam Curry: Sakala 20 blades on the Impala Thank you Marco.
Thank you really appreciate that.
Dave Jones: See it? Who was it? Was it? Oh, source source day he
said that? I need a pop filter and my puppy
Adam Curry: doesn't bother me. Okay.
Dave Jones: Get one if I need one.
Adam Curry: Do you like when you're excited? You'll get a
little puppy. I get potty all the time. I mean, what Mike?
What are you using us Ohio? No, I'm using the RT 3320 Well, then
you're just as Poppy as I am. It has a built in pop filter.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's I've never gotten one because it's
got the built in. It's fine. It's fine. Okay, if it if it
bothers everybody boost in and tell me
Adam Curry: about Buffy Yeah, boosting Some. Some pop filter
boosts Pop Pop sets.
Dave Jones: Todd at blueberry $50. Hey, gents. Todd. Here. Go
V for V.
Adam Curry: Yo, baby. Thank you. Thank you very much, Todd. When
can we talk about your secret project?
Dave Jones: Yeah, give us give us a timeline from Da Oh, let's
see what Okay, here we go. I guess it's a booster booster
grams. Okay, Captain egg head. 2222 says pod versed. Pod verse
beta can time split.
Adam Curry: Ooh, nice. Nice. Okay.
Dave Jones: I'll give that a shot. Today when I get back and
do so. Cast ematic Franco's trying to he's working on time
splits. Nice. I've got to put some thought into that, because
it's going to be hard for him to do remote item lookups
Adam Curry: because he doesn't have a server.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and so it's gonna take some thought I mean,
for sometimes it's gonna be not a big deal. But if there's a
feed with a whole bunch, it it could be a burden
Adam Curry: burden on the app because it has to scan all that
stuff.
Dave Jones: Yeah, he painted out some scenario where there was
going to be like 40 Something lookups you know, and it was
just like, Whoo, that's that hurts. So I've got that on my to
do list to sort of like think that through and see if we can
simplify this process for him. Because the the apps that do
their own thing and don't have a server I mean, we you know, this
stuff has to work for them too. Because those are those are good
apps.
Adam Curry: I smell a shim coming.
Dave Jones: Shit no shim shim free
Adam Curry: Parfumerie shim shim any shim shim Shirou Sorry
Dave Jones: 3333 through curio Castro no no thank you for that
and a double he gave us another one of those Thank you. drips
got 100,000 sets
Adam Curry: kala 20 is Blaze Bala Thank you
Dave Jones: boosting weight destiny by Sarah Jade great to
nice this see we got 30 threes got some more thought some more
hard hats. Thank you, Captain egghead. Probably not yet while
live though I guess at least on my pod verse. Yeah, probably not
that's no not Yeah, just separate thing that's not there
yet. Let's see Sam says the 152 theropod fancies his face seven
podcast chat already working podcast events ready now you
action words are added to the dashboard and can't wait for
podcast verify good podcasting. This is Red Dwarf set aka zoo
Adam Curry: I love Sam he's doing those interviews you can
hear is like 34 values the way to go. It's the way to go. But
okay, I'll ask about this advertising thing you're doing.
Dave Jones: You can hear that you can hear the the you can
hear it in his voice.
Adam Curry: Can I ask you a question? For a second here,
Dave? If you sent me your clips in a zip file? Yes. Have you
sent me? A an archive of a chat you had with the Apple Store?
Dave Jones: Yes, that's on purpose. Yes. That was
potentially something I was going to talk about. But I ran
out. Okay. All right. Well try this on the cutting room floor.
Adam Curry: Too bad. No big part for you Apple Store. All right,
good.
Dave Jones: Yes, discard. Let's see. Oh, see Dubs. One on 102
podcast index websites as a log seek is my favorite outliner
I've heard about log seek and add blocks that I have not used
it. It's supposedly it's like an encrypted what is it? I know
it's spelled funny as ello je s EQ logs. It gets like an open
source thing.
Adam Curry: And it partially because you were grepping logs
you were doing some big log Griffin 17. Grip,
Dave Jones: grip and logs and log notes increase understate?
Yeah. Community. Yes. It's like a it's like an open source note
sharing outliner thing but it's all encrypted. Drop Thank you.
Okay.
Adam Curry: Pick up your sand
Dave Jones: drop that drop my thing. Dropped it again.
Alright, I get our Davis at 710101. He says DuPont versus
correction typo from previous origin of my knowledge of
podcasting. Well think they're out of order because I didn't
see your previous one. Oh, here it is. I found it. Our Davis
8722 to 22 Row ducks through pod VS is boosting for another exon
board meeting. Thank you for your courage. Exxon. Thank you.
Thank you. Mike Newman 1472 through pod fans. Hey, now yay,
there
Adam Curry: it is the finally getting some pod fan boosts like
that and like seeing that
Dave Jones: boosting through pod fans for the thrill of it all.
Adam Curry: week I got I got my login. I'm all done. I'm rocking
and roll. I'm connecting with Sam. I'm following you. So yeah,
I'm figuring it all out.
Dave Jones: And get it. I'm noting up some bugs. I'm gonna
send them to Sam Oh see anonymous 6928 through breeze
today.
Adam Curry: I got a note from from Roy said, he said sorry
I've been MIA. So all kinds of stuff going on so I got to catch
up with him. That would be my daughter was here so I haven't
had time to call him back but I will we'll catch up. Yeah, he
stopped boosting the boosting is not loving.
Dave Jones: Yeah, man.
Adam Curry: That's bad overboard. busy guy.
Dave Jones: Justin Dejon do 669 sets. The pod fans this is pod
fans payment. Well, the pod fans is ramping up here. Hey, how
Adam Curry: about that? I love it. Nice.
Dave Jones: Our Davis 1443 pod verse he says boosting for the
destiny of podcasting. 2.0 and V for V music. Open music Wait,
Destiny? Great town. A real foot Tapper.
Adam Curry: Yeah, this was the music we played on the last
show.
Dave Jones: Jade was Sarah J. Sarah Jade. Yep. Okay. Oh, our
Davis 1440. Again, he says the dot eath domain services run by
the Ethereum foundation and is called the Aetherium namespace.
Adam Curry: Okay. Good to know. So good to know what to avoid.
Dave Jones: That's right. Our Davis all over Oh, he's all up
in our DMS today. 1987. DuPont VS is in the boardroom. Adam and
Dave, I think the whole verify ownership tag is being over
thought. There already exists a standard that can do this for
both independent podcasters and podcasters. He's posting
companies. It's called PGP and GNU privacy.
Adam Curry: Cool. But you can have verification through PGP.
Dave Jones: But I guess it would be just like very verifying
ownership of an email. If you put your PGP is the key if the
feed head is PGP public key in
Adam Curry: it? Oh, well, there's a good point. There's a
good point. Da
Dave Jones: Yeah, you would need an E and it had the same issue.
Right? You need a key to key escrow and all this stuff like
no you don't need as you don't, I mean key escrow. Like don't
you have to have a private directory of public PGP keys,
it's
Adam Curry: you know what, I'm gonna stay away from this
because the minute I open my mouth, like you got it wrong,
Carrie. That's not how it works. But I use I would say I get one
to two encrypted emails per day. And and I use the what's the
what's the dog email, app canine mail, which incorporates it
nicely. And I've been able to keep my key ring with all my you
know, with all my my my peeps, now easy to add someone's public
key, and it works pretty well. I have to say, it's not much of a
burden once you've done it a couple times. And so yeah, I
mean, and from time to time, someone will want to verify and
like that's a pain in the butt, actually. Because you got to
post something and do this and do that. And okay, you're
verified.
Dave Jones: But it worked out says the RSS feed is the escrow.
Adam Curry: Yes. That will make sense. The feed is the escrow
that's where you put the where you put your public key.
Dave Jones: And that means that podcast index would be the could
be a directory.
Adam Curry: We could be your public key directory.
Dave Jones: Yeah. There's nothing much more centralized
than a public key. strew is
Adam Curry: think about something the thing Yeah.
Dave Jones: He says you just put the public key in the feed, then
you give the user something they sign it with their private key
and the Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I mean, that's yeah. So yeah,
it's interesting. Yeah. Or asymmetric. Let's see.
Adam Curry: Alex gates just came in with 12,000 SATs already
considering adding PGP keys to the feed for pod ping
verification.
Dave Jones: Okay, well, maybe we can push all this together. And
I'm liking this. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I'm getting excited.
Dave Jones: By the way, Alex, I'm not I'm not streaming my
webcam on the OBS because I started this. I already had
everything hooked up. And if I plug in the USB, it blows up my
computer after I do it after the fact so I'm running headless
today. Just yeah, just Yeah, making sure he knows that. It's
not a problem. Okay, all right. Josie Jean been 4000 says says
Oh, good grief, apparently Oh, my phone pod verse. Now we got
back together, but we're waiting to get underground from their
misbehavior before actually streaming sets again. Here's a
little something to compensate for their ridiculousness. To be
clear. This is actually a peb CAC. Err. Okay, what is Pip?
Adam Curry: I don't know BK AC sounds icky.
Dave Jones: P NB case. I don't know what problem exists between
Qidong Yeah. Okay, thank you. GB 10,000 SAS for Gene minisas. As
I said on Mastodon, my biggest pet peeve in life is double
standards. So I feel less frustration with iTunes blocked
and think he's taking the right path to resolving this Miss.
Thank you Jamie. Appreciate that.
Adam Curry: Indeed I agree.
Dave Jones: Uncle Laurent sent us a satchel of Richard's
through pod verse he says I heard you guys talking about
Bitcoin Amsterdam last episode. Are you guys going? Negative?
Adam Curry: No, no, I don't think anything's happening. They
they have they've dropped the ball.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I haven't heard back from Chris yet.
Adam Curry: They have however hounded me for my article. So I
wrote my article. I ran it through chat GPT much to Tina's
anger. Because I gave it to her and I said can you put this for
the Tina wash? He said in the first sentence is this you put
this chat GPT didn't you? I said I'm so she has done an edit I'm
gonna look at it and it's all about podcasts and 2.0 value for
value and music value for value.
Dave Jones: Oh one I'm even worse I generated must show the
for this new for the days nightstand podcast Yeah, I
generated my album art through a mid journey
Adam Curry: oh god yeah, that's pretty bad.
Dave Jones: It was the epic fails were hilarious bad i mean
lamps desktop lamps that were connected to each other in
disturbing and horrible ways like it it was it was fun to
watch oh yes
Adam Curry: I need I need some art for Bookstagram ball comics
are bought blogger did one for me. But and he kind of got
started on a path that just doesn't work for me headphones
on the thing is like I'm looking for something different. I
appreciate what he did of course, but I'd love some just
throw it up on the podcast index dot social if you got something
love, love some art for the show.
Dave Jones: Chris Jupiter broadcasting huge, huge satchel
enrichers they got big Richard's over at Jupiter broadcasting fad
through fountain is 111111 111,111.
Adam Curry: Baby. Nice. Big Richards.
Dave Jones: He says just loved episode 141 Here's some value to
say thanks for one of my favorite weekly listens.
Adam Curry: Thanks, brother. Appreciate it, man.
Dave Jones: A bunch a bunch of 60 nines from Sam Sam city. But
a streaming stream is 60 nines. Mere Mortals podcast 2222
through fountain he says Confucius wants say life is
really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. I believe
he also said only real podcasters use the duo was words
to live by a
Adam Curry: couple of more live booths coming in Alex gets
13,000 Dave lost his head. Gotcha. And Sir TJ the raffle
who will be featured on the first booster Grand Ball nein
nein nein Nein. So excited for V for V music. It's all about the
value not the money. But N net Ned 10,000 SATs because it's
Friday you ain't got nothing and got no job. You ain't got no
shit to do. All right, net net. Thank you.
Dave Jones: This is what this is the standard operating procedure
for us by the way. You break just like today, you brought
cherry on top. With the killer tune. What I brought is Debbie
Downer about the world is broken. We're a perfect hair.
You're gonna bring the V for V booster booster gram ball. I'm
bringing a book about me reading stuff off my nightstand.
Adam Curry: But that's who we are. That's why it's so
beautiful. That's good, man. That's good. Hey, maybe we can
appear on each other show.
Dave Jones: That's right. Yeah, I'm talking to you. You're on a
show of me reading blurbs of a book. Yes. There
Adam Curry: you go. I'm pumped. I'd love to do a guest read.
Dave Jones: I will. I will get on your show and play and I'll
do an open mic.
Adam Curry: Yes. Good. I'm good. I'm good. Let's do it. I love
it.
Dave Jones: CASP eland 3692 podcasts index website he says
listen true. My own IPFS gateway, true the IPFS podcast
node written some small scripts to make use of your own gateway
on your own IPFS gateway only local local network is advised
and he gives a link to these look alike. Scripts. Okay.
Adam Curry: Send it to me and I'll put them in the show notes.
You can send that link to me. Let me
Dave Jones: let me sanitize this link first and make sure it's
not miss ransomware
Adam Curry: Yeah. Alright home
podcast script.
Dave Jones: This connection refused. I feel like we've been
I feel like we've been pranked.
Adam Curry: Let me say God's honest open hope and an owl.
That means open head.
Dave Jones: Open. We got pranked. We got punked I think
so
Adam Curry: too. Well, I'll put that link in just in case people
want to dare click on it. Okay, all right.
Dave Jones: The small satchel Richards he's need to go work
for Jupiter guys. Joel Wu. A fountain note Thank you Joel
Dobby
Adam Curry: work for Jupiter. Just got that one
Dave Jones: bad career advice Chad a little bit bigger sensor
Richards 11111 Count and he says days premium feed for the
upcoming podcast days. Nice day unless you explore what's in
days Nice.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I like it. I like that idea.
Dave Jones: He's just cute. Hot. Nice face talk. That might need
some hot math talk.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we got that.
Unknown: It's so hot. When you talk math. Thinks dry maths to
me.
Adam Curry: Talk math. Talk math to me, baby.
Dave Jones: I like how old that that that jingle is because it
still talks about things.
Adam Curry: I know. That is funny. I didn't even think about
that.
Dave Jones: To see 5000 sets through for from anonymous
podcast guru user. Through the podcast guru app. He says I'm
going to recommend this to my musician friends.
Adam Curry: Good cool. Do it. Do it. Do it do it.
Dave Jones: Boris Kozlowski through found and 11,333 sets he
says, Do we have a new term open podcasting? No. Not if not if
Adam has anything to do? No.
Adam Curry: Does podcasting podcast industrial complex and
closed podcasting?
Dave Jones: Let's see. Jeff Autons streamed a bunch of 69
through five through pod fans. This Jeff autogenous that name
sounds familiar,
Adam Curry: Jeff. No, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, Jeff.
Dave Jones: If I'm Miss placing something. Thank you, Jeff.
source D 16,000. Will 16 says to boost CLI says with them
inception. Colon, exclamation point command. With the colon
bang them can run commands possibly a hack but still
happening via Vim. Su CD Archie PS don't forget to split
Adam Curry: I just got a clarification from blueberry.
About the what I was saying about the words that boosted and
I made up something completely new because that's not at all
what he was talking about. The 17,770 success thank you
blueberry Adam I was wanting to hook up boost bot to a shock
collar them like zap every time someone boosted our GIMP but
voice to boost sounds awesome to
Dave Jones: God Almighty people are wow
Adam Curry: so if you boost like 100,000 Set baller boost you
give you give the host a shock I like that idea
Dave Jones: this needs to be rigged up so whatever that that
six podcast was the
Adam Curry: whatever it was, yeah, court
Dave Jones: What's that lake Courtney?
Adam Curry: Oh, I forgot her name. Yeah, what I'm talking
about the one that the one that never got to value for value for
real?
Dave Jones: No, no, no, no Karen for mere mortals he on boarded
Adam Curry: her. Yeah, but is she still doing it?
Dave Jones: Yes, she had a she boosted in. Oh two pod news
weekly reviews saying that she's digging the boosts she's getting
through fountain
Adam Curry: Oh, I stand corrected. I didn't was that
today on partners weekly review. Yeah. Oh, I haven't. I haven't
heard that. I haven't gotten to the corner yet. Booster gram
corner corner shows and that guy hadn't heard it yet. Okay, good.
Well, thanks. Um, thank God I'm so happy that's good news. Yeah,
we're gonna get her shot caller
Dave Jones: again soon yeah, yeah. In the Forex at no agenda
social.com. Sent to pod verse sent 4884 says boom. Thank you
for your music. Thank you. Boom. Do you Borlaug? 11,711 SATs, the
pod verse. No, no, thank you Borlaug and the delimiter There
he is. Comic Strip blogger 30 3015 through fountain. He
says, How to gringos Adam and Dave. Here's a treat for your
listeners. under the radar. A fun snappy podcast on Apple
software. development@www.relay.fm forward
slash radar posted by two millionaires.
Adam Curry: Wow, can't wait. Okay.
Dave Jones: That one caught me off guard, hosted by two
millionaires, Marco Arment of Tumblr and overcast fame and
David Smith, creator of the viral widget Smith app. It's a
delightful 30 minute digital snack. Never longer than 30
minutes. Yo CSB
Unknown: golf extra blog. Thank you.
Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. Wonderful. How about some
monthlies?
Dave Jones: Oh, we got some monthlies. We got four of them
we got Trevor at Z Nora Limited is five dollars. Thank you Trev
or Paul Erskine $11.14 Thank you Paul. Michael Goggin $5. Thank
you, Michael and Charles current $5. Thank you, Charles. That's
our group.
Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you all so much. Let me check the tally
coin real quick. I checked it earlier, but I don't think
anything is in there because we do have two spots on the podcast
index.org website. If you go down to the bottom, you'll see
two red donate buttons, one for your Fiat food and fun coupons
as for PayPal, the other one for your on chain if you want to
send that to us. And of course, what we really recommend is go
to podcast apps.com Get a modern podcast app that does your
boosting. That gives you boost to Graham's get one if you want
if you want to participate in this show with some of the music
stuff. With has the what do we call it? Do we we just call that
value time splits doesn't remote item. I mean, we need to
something new some marketing. We need a marketing term for it.
You know?
Dave Jones: Because light lit that's a great marketing term.
It
Adam Curry: is good. Well lit at times news. VTS sounds like some
kind of venereal disease. Yes, the gun Korea but you are not
just supporting this podcast, you are really supporting the
entire project. We got the whole podcast index.org
infrastructure, you help our tables. Our deletion structure,
you help our if you heard about the aggregators, and of course
we put all of the Satoshis we receive right on to podcast
index.org The node, which we are happy to open up a channel to
you for any kind of liquidity, anything you want. And any other
experiments we're doing. Thank you so much for supporting us.
You just send back what you get out of it. That's what it is.
You can send it in time, talent, treasure, treasure is needed.
But the time and talent is just as appreciated. Thank you for
supporting his here at podcasting. 2.00 Somerset
Dave Jones: lit splits. I like the list. Split splits. Ooh,
that's nice.
Adam Curry: I like that a lot. Yeah,
Dave Jones: when I come back from vacation, I would like to,
I would like to go through the tags that we have so far. This
is a proposal border. All right. I would like to go through the
tags one by one, maybe not every single one. Because some some
don't really need a lot of discussion. But at least I would
like to go back through these. And I feel like there needs to
be some discussion around each one of these tags, and how to
make sure that we are properly wiring these up correctly. I'm
not sure exactly how to explain it. What I'm saying is like, the
spec exists. And we have software using the tags. And now
platforms using the tag, things are happening. And I want to
make sure that we do an overview of each and understand if we're
putting these things together properly in in making them work
as they should
Adam Curry: call it a platform review.
Dave Jones: Ooh, ooh, a PR P
Adam Curry: everything's an acronym. If Life's worth living,
it's worth acronym. Ising.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's because I feel like for a good example,
this cast ematic Franco trying to implement,
Adam Curry: make sure it works for everybody. Yes, we
Dave Jones: gotta mate. Yeah, we gotta walk through this and see,
okay, here's the funding tag. What is what do we expect to be?
What was this thing created for? Here's how these apps are
implementing it. Whatever it is, can it be linked to other apps?
Excuse me? Can it be linked to other tags? I feel like we just
need to do a systematic review at a PR and figure out where
we're at. We make sure that everybody's on like that because
I need to know this stuff, too. Cuz I'm about to implement I
gotta go back and implement phase six tags in party time. I
don't even have them yet. Pod fans kicking my ass. I don't
Adam Curry: have more more tags than we do. Yeah, Mama
Dave Jones: loser.
Adam Curry: Winner Dave Jones. You're a winner.
Dave Jones: You're a winner. You're
Adam Curry: a winner. All right, dude, enjoy your vacation. Can
you tell us where you're going?
Dave Jones: Yeah, we're going to Southern California to Sequoia
National Park. Oh, I
Adam Curry: was gonna say nice. Sequoia. Have you ever been?
Never been? It's beautiful. It is. I mean, California for all
its weirdness is beautiful nature. No doubt about it. One
of the most beautiful parts of the country.
Dave Jones: I'm hoping that when I look on the heat map, I see
this little like an oasis of not a million degrees and I'm hoping
that that's where that's where
Adam Curry: you're gonna be. It will be much cooler there you'll
see it'll be much okay. I'm hoping
Dave Jones: altitude helps us.
Adam Curry: Remember everybody next week we will have a live
show will not be podcasting 2.0 boardroom it will be the
inaugural episode of The boosted grandpa All I hope you all show
up. And until then, chatroom, thank you very much everybody
listening. Have yourselves a great weekend. Dave Have a great
weekend brother and have a great vacation.
Dave Jones: You too, man. Mr. Gamble,
Adam Curry: crank it up there in the tent. We'll be back next
week everybody with the bush brown ball See you then
Unknown: you have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit
podcast index.org For more information,
Adam Curry: go to podcast. I'm excited. Wow. Powerful