MoeFactz with Adam curry for January 6 2020. This is episode
number 21st Show of 2020. How're you doing?
I'm doing well. Adam, how you doing?
Man? Happy New Year.
Same you, Sir Simon to you? Yes.
So 20 of episode of MO facts with Adam curry. And this is the
year we're gonna start asking people to participate actively
and support the work I think. I think we've proven our value.
I hope so last night teen I hope they found some value in it and
you know, in return the favor?
Or return the favor or return the value for sure. Get the
value? Yes. So the value for value system successfully
deployed at the no agenda show is very simple. You listen to
the show an hour, hour and a half two hours of whatever
length it is, Did you get anything out of it, you learn
anything if you did translate that into your own value and
send it to us mo facts.com or mo fund me.com mo e fund me.com.
All right, Mo, I'm excited to find out what you got lined up
for us. What are we going to talk about?
All right. Um, so if people don't know this, Kanye West
school spirit, and I had a little school spirit, so I want
to talk about the segregation of schools. Oh, okay. All right.
All right. We, we had we had alluded to this topics on a
couple of other shows talking about segregation. And that's
such a big topic. I wanted to break it down and maybe into
segments. And we'll talk about the final stretch of the
integration price process. And that was the schools. So
all right, excellent.
So just to lead off, I want to start with a little MLK, I have
a dream,
I have a dream. That one day this nation will rise up. live
out the true meaning of its creed. We hold these truths to
be self evident, that all men are created. I have a dream
that one day on the sons of former slaves and the sons of
former slaves will be able to sit down together at the table
of brotherhood. I have a dream. My poor little children will one
day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color
of our skin but by the pound Kennebec character.
It's a classic, classic slip on no facts, nothing like yeah, so
that's the that is the whole meme or encapsulation of the
civil rights movement and immigration and the defeating of
segregation. So I wanted to start off with that. It's I've
said this on a show of several times that I am against forced
immigration. Forced is the key word.
Yes, I think that's a universal issue. Forced and forced is
never good. Especially not if the government's forcing you to
do something.
Correct. And the reason why I started off with the I Have a
Dream speech is that's because that is where everybody is
mentally set on the subject of integration, that it would just
set it would it work, you know, King was successful. But even
King himself has some doubts before his death. And I have a
clip of Harry bought Harry Belafonte. Speaking on that
topic,
last thing Dr. King said to me, before he was murdered, was in
my home when he was sitting planning strategy for the Poor
People's Campaign, which was on the horizon of the politics of
the day. Martin said, you know, I've been thinking long and hard
about our struggle. We work tenaciously for our rights. And
the culmination of all that effort will be reflected in what
we've come to call the integration movement. And I sit
here deeply concerned that I suspect we are leaving our
nation on integration trip that has us integrating into a
burning house
okay, Have you heard that statement before? The burned
out house? Yes. No, no, the only burning house I can think of is
talking heads burning down the house, that's not going to help
us. So this is a very
How can I say it? In certain circles, this is a very popular
statement of Dr. Martin Luther King's, but not to the masses.
Okay, the at the end of his life when you
have to have a secret handshake to get into the circle?
Well, no, it's not. It's not that it's that in the mastering,
they would never propagate this facade of Martin Luther King.
They want Him to keep him that I have a dream King, not the
second guessing
of burning of the house burning down. Right,
or integration itself is what is this the right move? Now is very
popular in our community to the quote unquote, black community
to second guess, integration, because we look at the results
of it. And that's what the show was, in this episode, we're
going to really dissect how we got to the point of integration
and results integration. And not only now looking back, you know,
because Hindsight is 2020. We're going to look at some notable
figures at the time. And even they weren't as Pro integration
as the mass media, what have you to believe. So I have some clips
here. We're going to start at present day and see how
integration has failed to the point that schools are probably
just as segregated as now as they were in the 50s and 60s.
And we have the Atlantic came schools and a great kid school
integration made a comeback one,
the vast majority of white children living in the city have
access to a high performing neighborhood school. The vast
majority of black students have guaranteed access to
nothing. Do you think we're betraying the legacy of Brown v
Board? Absolutely.
We have defined it in every way that you can.
America's schools are the most segregated they've been in
almost 50 years. And for decades, the federal government
hasn't been doing anything about it. Today's typical white
student attends a school that is nearly three quarters white, the
average black student goes to one that's almost entirely
students of color. In 1954, Brown versus Board of Education
declared that segregated schools should be dismantled with quote,
all deliberate speed. We're sliding back into the two
unequal systems. Brown promised to get rid of one for low income
black and Latino students, and another for more affluent white
and Asian students.
Yeah, this is a topic that interests me a lot. I follow
this in Austin, mainly because I'm a home home owner. So I'm a
taxpayer, and I'm an old fart, and now I get to bitch and moan
about stuff. So I've been I follow what's happening. With
the Austin school districts, we have closings, and this is one
of the most liberal cities in America. It's a very odd place
here in Texas. But it's big NIMBY, not in my backyard. It's
always big talk big mouth, but I believe from what I understand
the schools are incredibly segregated in Austin. And, and I
don't know if you're going to talk about this at all, but
charter schools is now you know, the cropping up everywhere. And
this is on one hand can be great, but another hand, it
makes the problem even worse. So yeah, I can attest to this
definitely being the case.
It's amazing that we're back to the future. The main thing that
they try to get rid of human nature,
hey, Moe, you know, when you get to be as old as I am, you start
picking up on a trend happens a lot.
You can't change people's how people feel. Right? And that was
the How naive the civil right quote unquote civil rights
movement was because he was like, oh, we'll just force our
kids the, you know, force this love on you, you know, in in,
pull it out, you know, pull the equality.
You know, I have an analogy for you. Here in another one in
Austin. They decided we need bikes that just you know,
painted bike lanes on the roads downtown and in lots of places,
but downtown's a lot of bike paths. You can't just paint that
and say, Oh, it's going to work now. And you know, cars won't be
making right hand turns cutting by takes off triumphing over
him, it takes a long time for these good intentions to really
work if ever, there's no evidence It's working, it's
dangerous to ride your bike here.
And that's an excellent, excellent analogy, because the
two have to learn how to coexist with each other. Exactly. But
when you force these two things that normally don't coexist, or
maybe shouldn't share the same space, that has to be learned,
that's why I'm totally against forced integration. Now, if you
choose to want to be integrated, like our podcast, this is a
choice. And we come here and we have a conversation. Wait,
you're not a white guy. What? Know? What? Yeah. Stephen A
Smith. I'm a black man. Okay, so I'm the wonder, Am and how can I
put it nicely? There are people that were behind the civil
rights movement. Was this a kind of force anarchy? Who knows,
because when you start peeling back the layers of who were, who
was running the civil rights movement, the NAACP, we've
talked about that extensively, who they really were, when you
look about the communists, ties to the civil rights movement,
that they that's one form of protest is anarchy. So was this
a form of anarchy, but we'll talk about that a little later,
let's get into come back to
integration worked. In 1988, the achievement gap between blacks
and whites was half of its pre brown levels, and no other
education policy has ever come close to matching that success.
So why do we turn the other way,
there was significant progress in terms of creating schools
that were more racially and socioeconomically diverse. But
we have to acknowledge there are other places where that didn't
happen, and where there was real resistance.
parents didn't want black and Latino kids coming to their
schools.
And my grandson, last night here, they ate,
some aggressively lobbied lawmakers and brought cases to
the courts. Eventually, this resistance worked. Over the last
three decades, school segregation has come back.
So interesting to hear, you know, one of those older clips
was, you know, bad, my grandkid, they're not gonna come over here
to hear my school. I wonder if that's if that that that still
goes on that kind of talk.
Maybe in a hushed tone, but I'm sure it still happens. It's
just, I find it strange. Just me being who I am to force yourself
into a situation. I never understood the civil rights
movement of forcing yourself too much counters forcing yourself
in other people's schools. We have Plessy versus Ferguson. And
that was in 1892. And that was kind of like where separate but
equal was established. And if I'm from the viewpoint of if
we're going to find anything in the Supreme Court, let's have
the black schools be equal to the white schools because that
was the claim that all they had better books and better AI
cities, better schools, this
goes on today, we still it's morphed a little bit, but the
way it's presented today is the zip code you're born in
determines your future.
That's true. And we didn't we didn't solve the problem of the
inequality of schools, not the racial balancing of schools, the
inequality
of the education of the material of the the state of the
buildings, the safety, etc.
Yeah, that's when we go to the black school. We should see the
same safety the same fire extinguishers,
the same, the same jungle gym and in the yard. Yeah, of
course. Exactly.
Yeah. And I think that's why you had a bunch of people wanting to
emigrate, because Oh, yeah, that school is so much better.
Facilities wise.
It's important. I've never really thought about this when
you know, what was the reasoning behind school integration? It's
kind of sinister when it now that I think about it. It's
like, Well, look, if your school is always going to be shipped,
so we're going to send you over here with where it's not shit.
Yeah, that's kind of centered.
That will the same thing with No Child Left Behind. It's like,
oh, you can read or you can read well, so you don't deserve to be
in this crappy school. Looks. Let's move on
six to school. It's moving to a less crappy one. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
We see this audit, and it never helps. It never helps. And the
as you're gonna hear and come back,
oh, wait, wait, wait, but it does help. It helps ease the
mind of those who are better off. Well, we did our part we
let them come over to our kids school. Oh, yeah, the guilt?
Yes,
exactly.
Kings plan isn't the forced busing of the past. Instead, he
wants to make it easier for parents to send their kids to a
school outside their neighborhood. This is called
school choice. In this system, students of color can avoid bad
neighborhood schools and apply for better ones across town. And
white parents can choose to send their kids to more diverse
schools than the ones nearby. The idea is that parents can
voluntarily integrate schools. But it's not as easy as it
sounds. Natalie Hopkinson a journalist and parent of two,
has tried to get her two kids into largely white schools for
years, they switched schools five times in 10 years.
Eventually, she gave up and sent them both to private schools.
When it comes to DC race rules, everything. And it's really
depressing to me, the choice system very clearly
disadvantages black students, because the schools that are
high performing, are in white neighborhoods, period families
that are able to have the means to be able to buy into those
neighborhoods have a guarantee they will have access to those
schools.
Right, same same problem just
continues. Yeah, so it's not the schools. It's the communities
that make up the schools. And we spoke about how the communities
have been under attack through social social programs, and no
man house welfare system in these things. So now you see the
the schools reflect what the community the status of the
community is. Yeah. And what person in their right mind would
send their child to lower level school. You don't
want to but it's, but if it's the one in your neighborhood,
you see that that or the voucher program or whatever. Yeah, but
I'm
just I'm speaking of the school choice. Yeah. Idea. It's like,
Oh, yeah.
Let me choose the shit school.
Yeah, they may love diversity. Who would do that? It makes no
sense. This is what we're dealing with. And this will irks
me, is the so called leaders. Where are they at to call this
out? Like these schools are not equal. Based off of what I said
before separate will equal the facilities should be the same
the amount of chart, the textbook, the year, the
textbooks, all these things. That's what we should have been
fighting for. Yeah, no.
Yeah. And Mo, I must tell you, I've heard about the school
choice school vouchers, etc, for years and years and years.
And I'm totally honest.
Only only right now have I really thought about it in the
way you're thinking about. It's like, well, yeah, holy shit,
that's again, it's just insulting. It's like, No, we,
and it goes both ways. Because if that's being offered, you
know, there should have been, maybe there was a call saying,
Well, hold on a second. We don't want that we want the schools to
be better. And I'm sure those calls were there. But
ultimately, it's such an accepted thing. And yeah, and
just for me, it just kind of hit me like, oh, that's, yeah, it's
kind of cynical and insulting.
And the teachers don't really say anything, because what do
they do? They all close the school. That's the teachers work
in these environments. You see them on the news all the time,
the roof is falling down, rather than running around. And it's
like the solution is to close the school down and bust the
kids out of their neighborhood. Right? Yeah, that's the
solution, not fix the school now. It is very easy. I don't
know I can't get get my head around it. But the one thing
that last clip, the last of the clips brought up was the Brown
versus the Board of Education. This is 1954. And this was the
Brown family. They want it to go to a white school. Well, let me
let the next clip. Where are we at? Brown versus the Board of
Education. Not so equal one.
It's early in the morning and young Linda Brown, a third grade
elementary student in the town of Topeka, Kansas is getting
ready for school. Linda and her sister will soon leave the house
to begin their churning, but they won't be going to the
elementary school located just seven blocks away from their
house. No. Instead, they will walk six blocks to board a bus
that will then take them to another school located a mile
away from their house. Why? Because of the color of their
skin. The year is 1951. And this country needs a change. Now,
part of that clip sounded really old and part of it sounded
modern. What was that from?
It's from the Georgia Bar Association.
Oh my god,
they need some help. Yeah, so it's for it's for kids. For
kids, so they have actual get gaveled names I think slammer.
I'm gonna teach
you how segregation works. Okay.
But there was something in that clip that I wanted to see if you
call about the proximity.
Yeah, a six be walking six blocks to the bus.
So. So the white school is seven blocks away?
Yeah. Oh, yeah. They only have to walk six blocks.
Why? Well, they had to walk six blocks to the bus get your bus.
Mal. So that means this family lived in a mixed race community.
Which goes back to our white flight. Moving out. No, yeah, we
move moving out. You see what you see what I'm going? Yeah.
Because you can't say, oh, we want all the black kids that go
to all white schools. That doesn't make any sense, does it?
No, that was no, this was very targeted and Mrs. Bought for a
certain group of people. And we're gonna get into that not
equal to
it was happening everywhere. African American students were
being denied admission to all white schools, especially in the
states where segregation was mandated. The case of a Brown
versus Board of Education of Topeka, Shawnee County, Kansas
was named after Reverend Oliver Brown from Topeka, Kansas.
Oliver Brown was an assistant pastor, a welder in the shops of
the Santa Fe Railroad, and father of nine year old Linda
Brown. Brown was also one of 13 parents to be recruited by his
childhood friend, Charles S. Scott, a civil rights law. Brown
and others were asked to attempt to enroll their children in
their closest all white neighborhood school. Reverend
Brown did this in the fall of 1951. Taking his daughter by the
hand and walking with her into some new elementary school.
Okay, you rang your bell on the lawyer's name?
They will have you believe that? Mr. Brown, you say, you know, I
am fed up? My black daughter's going to a white school. I'm
calling my lawyers. No, that's not how it happened to these
civil rights lawyers called up families a.
Sure. Yeah, he's like an ambulance chaser.
Yeah. And they use their kids as as a weapon. Political Yeah. As
as like Greta, no, brother. This is the moderate. She's, what is
her name? Say? I think Cynthia Brown, I believe. She's like the
modern day, Greta. They use these kids. Put them in this
very volatile and hateful environment, because it's
forced. We saw at least seen the pictures. We seen the little
black girl holding the notebook on all these, like, yeah, you're
writing clips here, your heart breaks. Why are we yelling on
both sides? Like? What? And you put your kid through that for
what? Better education?
Well? I mean, yeah, I wouldn't. Yeah, it's hard to say how that
how desperate are you? I don't know. That's, I see the I see
the jokin at all. Absolutely. But I'm also thinking, Well, you
know, if you really want to make a stance, sometimes you got to
do something. But clearly, this lawyer just jumped out of the
woodwork. And I would say the lawyer kind of set it all up
that way to use the kid.
So my question goes back again, while we're not trying to get
better facilities for all the black children at the school
that you're not trying to let your child go to?
I wish I had an answer.
Well, it's not there is no answer because it doesn't make
any sense. It's like, dumb. Well, you want to enforce the
certain privilege and these kids are privileged they have a
certain privilege because they were able to move out of the
neighborhood obviously, because they have to walk seven blocks
and then catch a bus ticket. out to the school in the community
were set instead of walking six blocks to this school over here
that's in their community. So I'm just saying. Yeah. So we're
gonna continue on with. Where are we at? I think we get, we
always get clear, we skipped
Linda Brown explaining cigarette segregation to her kids.
I think I think it worked out best this way. It's funny how
these things work out. So Linda Brown Thompson desk. That is the
that's the little girl, right? The little girl here she's gonna
explain her her experience.
The neighborhood that we lived in with an integrated
neighborhood. And so when we went outside to play, I had
playmates that were all nationalities. I had playmates
that were Hispanic that were white, that were Native
American. And so we all played together, you know, every day.
And when school would start, then we would have to go these
separate directions. My playmates want to know, well,
why can't you go to school with us? And I want to know why I
couldn't go with them, you know. But being children, we didn't
understand what was going on.
It was devastating. I didn't like it a bit. And I just
wonder, why. Why is this happening? You know, why
couldn't she go to the neighborhood school? You know?
And when the kids asked her why she couldn't know, they came and
asked me, Miss Brown, what's the all of this? Why can't learn to
go to school with this. And I tried to explain to them it was
the color of her skin that black people could not go to school
with them over there yet. They could go, the Mexicans could go,
the Indians could go and the whites all went together. But
the blacks could not go. So I tried to explain that. Because
those very same children who came over to play with her, they
ate my food. They slept in my bed with my kids, and they
played with them. And they didn't see any difference. But
then when school started that, where the difference came in.
You know, and I don't want to equate my experience to this at
all, of course. But I when I was seven, we moved to the
Netherlands. And I was in an international school for a
couple of years only English spoken. And live picked up a
couple of words of Dutch. But this was 70, early 70s. And
Americans were not very well liked. There was a Vietnam War.
And you know, so really what the Dutch kids would say to me, is
you crazy American, that's about all I would hear all day. And my
my dad switched careers, and very expensive International
School for all three kids ended. And we literally were told one
Sunday night, we had a week off from school. Hey, guess what you
guys doing tomorrow? And like, wow, what are we doing? You're
going to Dutch school. What? So I entered Dutch school at fifth
grade, almost not speaking any Dutch at all. And I'll tell you
sucks massive balls. Because I was different. And you have four
immutable differences, things I couldn't help. But I was
completely different. And it's traumatic, then, you know, so
just throwing out another analogy, but I can feel some of
this.
Understand, I'm not assisted to the fact that she wanted to go
to school with the kids that she played with in her neighborhood.
Yeah. And another small fat dude, I don't want to gloss over
is why isn't it every other group, not white group gets to
go to school, but it's like, no, no black kids will take the
Mexicans in any way. You're pushing the bounds with the
black kids. I mean, I wanted to point that out as well. So are
we talking about segregation here because they don't really
fall under segregation. Under what how you think it would be
right a whites only right? That's that's funny business
going on there as well that? No, no black people are
very slight. Everybody will say yes. Selective segregation.
Yeah, I
just wanted to point that out. For the for the people that's
out there, listening. But here we are. So they the civil rights
lawyers gotten them to got their 15 families and they take it to
the Supreme Court. And we have a Brown versus Board Supreme Court
one.
By the early 50s, segregation was frayed by the war and torn
in spots where the court had acted. The white primary was
outlawed. Housing covenants outlawed some graduate and law
schools were forced to admit blacks that the court was aware
that the big fight was still to come. The schools K through 12
white children and black in the same classroom.
I love the music and really sets me up.
So that this is the law Last battleground the K through 12
schools, right? They've like they said the war, the war had a
big effect on it, or World War Two is what they're referring to
as the war because that was one I think we spoke about on the
last show. That was one of the things that now black people
were able to join the armed forces in mass right side by
side. Yep. You had the Tuskegee Airmen, you had get the tank
battalion that were famed for being very successful in World
War Two. So you had a lot of black men soldiers coming back
home and they were kind of breaking down some of the social
barriers, the barriers, yeah. So as I said, segregation was
tattered, but they had to keep forcing, forcing. So we're gonna
get into Supreme Court to
Atlanta by Thurgood Marshall and other young lawyers like Robert
Carter, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund was running or aiding cases
all over the country. The court picked five and consolidated
them into one set of arguments forever known as Brown versus
Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas. As oral arguments
approached, people camped outside the building to assure
themselves a seat in the courtroom. NAACP lawyers,
Marshall and Carter were up against a formidable adversary,
John W. Davis, the former presidential candidate, making
the last of his 140 appearances at the Supreme Court. But his
arguments had a familiar ring separate wasn't necessarily
unequal. Blacks should be happy with the way things were. Didn't
states have the right to educate their children as they saw fit?
Throwing it right back to states rights Interesting.
Well, this is where I disagree, because they say shouldn't
blacks be happy with the way they had it? No, because schools
were inferior. Schools were inferior. The
second the second part of that, though, the way I heard it was,
well, wait a minute, shouldn't the states make sure that
that's, I mean, is this when we had a Department of Education or
not, because I think that's where most of the problems came
from, is when we had federal and when I should, I should look it
up, go ahead and continue Mo and I'll just look that up is when
that started.
So just a little anecdote that schools were not equal at a
time, and I'm not oblivious to that fact. Because my dad would
tell me, he would like a we had to go in and take books together
and read, they got like books that were five, six years old
pages torn out of them. So I'm aware that the schools were not
equal, and facilities and materials. But there was
something that the white schools couldn't give the black students
and we're gonna get to that later on in the show. And also
in a time that we talked about now PTSD, post traumatic stress,
forcing kids into the environment that they don't want
to be in Are they not welcome? It has to be very traumatic
credit history, a very traumatic, but nobody considered
this. It was like we're trying to win A a political battle. And
if the kids are sacrificed, so be it.
Well, of course, this is this is this is very modern, to abuse
your children to for a political point, by the way, Department of
Education under Jimmy Carter 1979.
Okay, so this was a school, so was the state's responsibility
to ensure that the schools were equal, which they were not
which, if I had silver, if, if I'm running the show, I'm having
my civil rights lawyers fight that case of No, it's not equal.
Then Then, then we I think that would just been better off, but
that's just me. Let's get into Supreme Court three,
Warren starts off in a bland manner. And you can't tell for a
while as he's delivering the opinion, what the outcome is
going to be. And then he comes to the key line. And he says,
and we unanimously hold that separate but equal has no place
in the Constitution. And it was just electric in the court room
when he said unanimous
we conclude that in the field of public education, the doctrine
of separate but equal has no place. Separate educational
facilities are inherently unequal. Therefore, we now
honestly hold that the plaintiffs are deprived the
equal protection laws guaranteed by the 14th amendment. Plessy v.
Ferguson, in education is no more and in practice Plessy v.
Ferguson itself is no more. The era of Jim Crow,
constitutionally speaking,
is all right. I'm just trying to understand the Explain, I needed
another explanation of separate but equal.
Okay, so it goes back to 1892. Case Plessy versus Ferguson. So,
Homer Plessy, who is seven AIFS? Caucasian? Yeah, going back to
the one drop rule here took a seat and a white only white
whites only car of a Louisiana train. He was arrested at the
refuse to move to the car reserved for blacks. And this
was also a plant. He was a plant. Well, sure, by lawyers.
It's so this goes even back to the early not late 1800s of
lawyers using plants to bring about cases right. But but on
appeal, the United States Supreme Court upheld the state
imposed racial segregation rely on the separate but equal
doctrine. It says separate facilities for blacks and whites
satisfy the 14th amendment. So so long as they were equal. So
that's Plessy versus Ferguson or the separate but equal trial.
Okay,
I got it now. Yes.
So that's what I'm saying. If you want to have your lawyers go
fight, but like, Hey, we've tried this case. Plessy vs.
Ferguson, we're looking at this school, we're looking at that
school. They're not equal. You're not upholding the law.
Right. But But now what they wanted to do we say we want the
select few handful of black children to be forced into white
schools, while leaving the black schools, dilapidated,
dilapidated and deteriorating. So so so essentially this case,
and its ruling came down to well, it's okay to leave the the
schools in a state of disrepair.
Yeah, it's not uncommon.
Laws of the Black Law, the black kids have equal access to the
white schools.
Yeah, you can let it all go to shit as long as they can walk
over that way.
Yeah, wow. Four to leave it to the neighborhood. Yeah, man with
CDs. That's
that's institutional racism, bro. Light bulb. Okay. But it's
for poor people, for poor black people. If you're middle class
and like we spoke about about the old
neighborhood on a certain point. I think it does more from purely
a black white issue, racial to poor and less poor. When the
lines do blurred a certain point.
Yeah, they do. That's true. So fast forwarding to now. We have
Mr. Tony Harris from Seba former anchor on CNN. And he speaks on
school desegregation while failed.
Learn it people suggesting to me that that the Brown decision set
education back for black kids, why are we fighting these
battles? Why when our kids are getting fighting for resources
for what is a substandard education, graduating not
reading at a grade level, and a lot of cases, not all cases, but
in many cases, why are we fighting this when we know there
was a period of time in our history, when we were educating
our kids and around comes into effect. And you lose so many of
the the black teachers who were teaching these kids and don't
forget part of the buy in for a lot of these districts, these
white districts was that these black teachers aren't going to
teach our
white kids. I haven't seen Tony Harrison CNN in a long time.
Yeah, he hasn't been there for a while. I think he he hosts a
show called America hate. It looks into a racial issue that
Oh, Al Jazeera. Yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
So he brings up some great points, because what we had
happened was this thing called social promotion. Have you ever
heard of that, Adam?
Is that a like Twitter?
Kind of like it where nobody knows what they're doing? No,
that's where you just kind of push a kid alone. Like, oh,
yeah, we're gonna go ahead and move on to the third grade, even
though he's reading. Oh, yeah. First grade level. Yeah,
this is let's just get going. This is a very big problem. And
I think that these days, it happens a lot more and it's done
kind of with the grades. Schools don't want to get the bad over
everything's with metrics. Schools don't want to bad marks
or they either lower the the difficulty of the test or, you
know, fudge around with the numbers just to just push the
kid through the system.
It's one of those things They did. And I can just highlight
this right quick was they went from the seven point scale to
the 10 point scale. So just when I was in school a was 100 to 93.
That was a now a is it from 100 to 90. And it goes a B is from i
89, to 80, and so on and so forth. And
it's something I never really, I always okay. Rewind, growing up
in the Netherlands, in, in the Dutch school system, it's a zero
to 10 scale always has been that way. And the more I came to
appreciate the zero to 10 scale, the more I looked at the
American system with A, B, C, D, F. And would say this is really
fudging you know, it's like a C, well, you kind of you pass with
a C, but really in the, in the in the 10 point system that will
be a failing grade it more like a five, and I always thought it
was kind of pussy as like, just just give me the real number.
Well, that kind of system helps with, quote unquote, privileges.
Well, yes, of course. Is kind of like a little Johnny. So we'll
give him a c minus
exam. Yeah, it's a fudge factor. It's stupid.
What? The reason why I make that point is this is kind of how we
sample how black kids were harmed. Because where one
teacher might give you a B plus, the other one might give you a c
minus, it's very subjective. The other thing is, what about
social promotion, this is another and this is gonna be a
live conversation that me and my dad had about schools, because
He is an educator. He was saying, I don't care how big you
are, if you're reading on a third grade level, you were in
the third grade, right? Could be 12 years old at his, quote
unquote, black school, the teacher wasn't passing you,
right? It wasn't. If you ran a third grade level, you weren't a
third grade, if you weren't third grade math level, they
will keep failing you and failing you, fail you until you
actually perform well. We all know how that how
that worked out. We all know what changed over the years.
So what happened was, and I don't know if this cost teacher
was scared to be called racist if they felt a bunch of black
kids. Well, you the black family was being destroyed. At the same
time, the black community was being destroyed at the same time
through urban renewal. But that's another show for another
day of and now you have these kids going into their
environment that well, I'm gonna let Mr. Minister J. J. Sammy
Williams and his wife explain
it. In the black community, we were prepared by setting setting
goals, objectives for ourselves. This was done primarily in the
home, in the church, and in the school at that particular time,
because schools have a heavy reinforcement of our characters,
because they were black schools. Schools were not integrated at
that time. You know, do the best that you can with your life. You
are unique, you have a contribution to make, you have
something to offer, you have a talent, you have skills, many,
many other things that you do have going out there into the
world and get them
and who was
Jay Samuel Williams. So J Sami when he was just a minister, but
I thought this video on YouTube, him and his wife, speaking on
black schools before integration, and just to get
perspective for somebody that age now we can like I said, I'm
40 years old, I didn't go through the changing of a school
so I can have a perspective by wanting to get someone of that
age that experienced the as it was happening. So we can get
some perspective of what it was like from a person that attended
black schools, but prior to integration. So that's that's
what Mr. J. Samuel provides to this. Got it to this story.
Yeah, so he, like you said, it's something about I've had white
teachers now have had black teachers. I've had good
teachers, I have bad teachers. What is something about a
teacher that has a certain vested interest in you in you?
And and you get that from black educators? Now I can't speak as
far as it doesn't happen between the phenomenon between white
educators and white students, but they don't allow you to
quit. They don't allow you you to listen and I'm just speaking
from the 80s. When I went to school, I had one teacher Miss
Mrs. Tab, and she would die, just give it to you straight.
Like, you know what life is going to be like, you know how
the world is, and in there will talk to you in a certain way
that I think maybe a white teacher may not feel comfortable
with saying to you
Well, I've certainly and I think that's that's when the life of a
teacher is most beautiful when they connect with a student. And
I've had that certainly with one history teacher and one
geography teacher. But I never received an any kind of talk
from them about hey, now, you know, you know, you know, where,
how this is all going to wind up the way I think that you got
that. So having that connection with a teacher is universal. The
downside? I don't think anyone said well, you're gonna you're
gonna wind up on the streets dead.
It's funny, my dad was an educator, and he chose to go to
the worst school, whatever it is. He like, what's the worst
school? See me there? Yeah, he was kind of like, he was kind of
like Joe Clark. I mean, knowing you
doesn't surprise me, your dad did.
What he will bring kids home and like, my mom would like fix big
pots of spaghetti. And we've been like three or four
students. And I mean, all our teacher salaries. So? Yes, so I
just think but you don't get that now. I don't think because,
well, these days, it's legally dangerous. You know, you'd be
there. Before you know you've been accused of some wrongdoing.
It's a lot. It's a lot of stuff you can't do anymore. As a
teacher.
I totally agree with you. But now not to go down. I'm off on a
tangent. Let's get back to Mr. J. Williams, or Samuel Williams
to
relative to white America, we were taught that a lot of the
values a lot of the values that were that came into being was
sent by a middle class, let's say white America, the way we
were to emulate them, you know, because at this point, we're at
the very threshold of integration. Immolate them, take
on many of these as much as possible, middle class values
and virtues. That was a kind of an inferior stigma placed on
black people you have to watch. But you have to look through it
to see exactly what you know. The real truth behind that is a
stigma of inferiority. You're not exactly what you shouldn't
be. You know what, you need to do this, you need to do this.
And so in order to be in order to be accepted in the white
world, into a white culture,
yeah, well, that's what you're gonna get, of course, like it's
so it's almost obvious that that that was bound to unpack that
way. Well, you got to do it this way. Well, that's not where I'm
coming from in life. Well, tough shit kid. I can see where that's
a problem to the whole thing is a mess. But this goes
back to the conversation that we had about your friend coming
over. You just wanted to play right. This is what this is what
Jay Samuels Williams is explaining him I know. We have
to you know, we you watch something and you want to
emulate it not for a simple fact that you think is you put it on
a pedestal but you like Oh, well. I'm sure you had this when
you went to Dutch school. Dutch school you like what are the
Dutch kids doing? What's not what's considered normal? Let
me tell you or detsky Let me tell you, they they did division
completely differently. They didn't even have a one number
over another a number with a vertical line. It was a was a
slashed line. It was like what the hell? It's like, okay, well,
I guess I do it that way, which I had no background in it. Very
messed up. It is a gyp this whole school system is a big
chip.
And that's why you felt like the kid when you came, he was
carrying that on his back, like, oh, we have to emulate what we
think middle classes. Because you're trying to convince people
that you belong belong there. Yes. And there was never a point
of time where you could let your hair down and be you
know, were there any child psychologists involved in these
in these rules and regulations and this whole thinking process
or was it all just we know what's best for the kids? I just
wonder about that.
It's progress. I mean, it's probably is 100 Yeah, we don't
care about kids crying in the street talking about the world
is coming to the end of eight years. Oh, it's
material. It's great for the photographic material, it would
look great on my resume.
Right now, not only that, but who can fight against crying
kids? Yeah. So these are how these hobbies these kids were
being used. And my just my opinion, and it wasn't even
successful or a fruitful.
Thank you. I mean, oh, it's one thing. And look, it's like, if
you're going to you if you're going to abuse your kid for the
greater good. I mean, that's, that's a very big sacrifice to
make. But if it were a misguided cause that Well, here we are,
look at where we are today, then it's kind of sad than it was.
Maybe people really believe this was way to do it. I'm not in
their shoes. These aren't. These are some smart people.
Yeah. But who do dumb things. There were smart people. But it
was my question, was it a status thing to say all my kids go to
the, to the white school? And I mean, this is a real phenomenon
that I want to bring up and we don't discuss it long, but a lot
of times, quote, unquote, black people would like to be the only
black in a situation. This is real. I'm the only black that
live in my neighborhood. I mean, that means is that a good
hazard?
Is that a good thing? Is that how it's viewed? Yeah,
I made it. I in this is real. I mean, this is a real sentiment
of it's cricket and backwards in my book, but that's like, what
do you have any friends or acquaintances who were in that
situation? would say it that way?
Not in that way. Okay. Not it's not they don't say it like that.
But it's in place where you can say something. Yeah. And it's
the receipts. Telling me you walk around saying,
I'm doing a podcast with that white dude.
I made it to the top of the podcasting game.
That's right. I'm here. That's just me. You don't see another
white podcasters hanging around? And do you any black ones? Yeah,
exactly. Right.
Right. I wouldn't ever do that. Because it's like, and just to
be of course
not, of course, I get it.
Now. I'm only saying is. It's the opposite. Yeah. It's because
like, yeah, that's another show. But I mean, yeah, it's just that
you have this gauge, like, Oh, am I keeping it real enough? Or,
you know, it's a mental thing. And it's like some people they
don't cares. They want to make it away from their own people.
And that's the case this whole episode hear that? They didn't
want equal schools. They didn't want better schools. It was
they want it. They want it to be over there with them. Yes,
yes. And this, this is one of the things that we go back to
the white flight with Michelle Obama. It was like, yeah, all
the white people left. And then but who moved in, right. Black
people. So you have a problem with black people that you ran
from? Is this weird thing this goes on. But I'm taught that you
three,
it brought about some stuff prior to because in school, we
were taught, we had we had role models, like I've mentioned
before, we are role models, and our teachers, you know, instill
self pride. And we just knew that someday, you know, we
wouldn't want to be like this, all the time, that someday we
were going to be somebody. So we just, you just kept that in your
mind that one day we're going to leave Prince Edward, we're not
going to be in followed the rest of our lives, you know, and for
the most part most of us did.
So she just goes on to speak about what was the steelton
instilled in them by the teachers that they had at their
all blessed school. So I just think if it's your choice, you
want to integrate his school, that's fine. If you feel like
you know, you want that balance. That's fine. The problem I have
with the whole situation is to twofold. One, the schools got no
better and to the kids were forcing it to an environment
that really caused him. Stress. Yeah, and living with a person
that never really got over it being my father, he never really
got over that. I mean, cuz it's just it's a culture shock. Oh,
as you spoke about, you're saying in the Netherlands is
that?
Are there any success stories of very successful black Americans
who went through this process forced, forced or not, but went
to a white school and then became XYZ
from Allah Harris. She says she was bused. I said black. I said
black Americans. Well, technically, technically,
please. I don't think that's true.
But I'm talking more about you know, back in the in the
60s 70s. Here, the time we're talking about,
I think a lot of your politicians, I mean, this is a
reality all Condoleezza Rice comes to mind, right? Cory
Booker actually good. I mean, so, but because of their
economic status, right, allow them to live in the good
neighborhood. This is the missing piece here. Yeah. That's
why I talk about proximity is because your family was
economically forced, and they are successful. I don't want to
say forged tonight, it was a luck thing, but they worked hard
to move it to that neighborhood, and your kid kind of deserves to
go to that school. But did you think 10 steps ahead, like,
what's the environment really gonna take the toll he's gonna
take on my child, send them to an all white school where they
were, as a show good shout out. Everybody Hates Chris. Yeah. And
it did, where he was academically gifted, and he got
to go to all white school. And he was the only black kid. And
like, you don't want to be the only anything anywhere. Right?
That's not a good thing to be. So I mean, I don't think the
parents really thought it out. It was like, oh, yeah, we're
gonna make history or, you know, my kid's gonna, you know, be,
you know, right on the front.
Right? Well, but I can see parents, if it's not thought
through thinking of this is the opportunity, I want my kid to
have this opportunity. And really not thinking it through
as a kid.
True, but it does have long term effects on the child and didn't
have long term effects on your community. Because what ends up
happening is maybe that student that's super intelligent, super
charismatic, needs to be an example for his fellow Black
students. Right? You start pulling all the gifted kids out
of the schools. That's why I was I was totally against No Child
Left Behind. And every right then you leave just
the rest of you literally leave the rest behind.
Right? It's like, oh, yeah, okay, you can read out all the
kids can read on school, that we're gonna move them out to
another school. So why are you leaving behind? Yeah, who, you
know, where's the tutoring coming from? Where's the peer
level? Inspiration coming from nowhere, you have a bunch of
kids that Anna has had to deal with your self esteem as well,
like, oh, they just left me. You know? Yeah. So
Well, again, again, all of this comes from a completely failed
policy idea, which everybody bought into, instead of the
obvious, which is, hey, let's make our the schools in our
neighborhood better.
Alright, so let's continue on with top values for
so we learned to work within the confines to be creative, as much
as possible, to make us as black people say, love to make do with
what you have. And by this adaptability to this old inner
culture, you know, this is what brought brought forth many other
things, many of the qualities and the strengths, and admit
that we had to live beyond where we were, you know, we were not
taught just to watch what you're watching right now. You know,
there's to look down, right? Where you in the 50s. But look
ahead, there's something out there, you know,
go get it. So that's just him continuing on with what they
were. What the they were of the day. Yeah. And what they were
given from the I just want to highlight that because everybody
wants to make this make it seem like, it's a couple of things I
want to tear down here. What everybody want may seem like the
old black school was just terrible. Yeah. I mean, no,
there's some very prominent black high schools even today.
One of them being I think it still opened in Durham, North
Carolina call hillside High School. That was the town I grew
up in. And I really wanted to go to that school. But my dad was
like, Nah, you're not going to hillside. Oh, why not? Why not?
Because they had already at the year I was, let's see. So I was
in high school from 94 to 99. This data had been getting out
all the effluent shoe kids. It was like the school for the
quote unquote ghetto. Now, obviously, I'm sorry. I mean,
because it was it was no more middle class in this school
district. You see, I'm saying so I was like my dad has this now.
He was like, Nah, that's not gonna happen, even though he
would go teach at that school. He will lie in but he didn't
teach you that school because he was at the worst school and that
like there was like the behavioral school. But so you
say you want to like not you wanted to be a Hornet.
Yes. hillside Hornet.
Right. Because I just love, I meant to be honest with you. And
me, this may sound funky, but I just like always felt
comfortable around being around all black people. Sure, I
haven't went to historically black college for that reason,
it was just a little inside baseball, as a black child, you
only have a certain amount of years where you can be incubated
with your own people, right? Until you had to become
integrated into society. So you know, high school is when you're
young adult college is your age when you become a real adult,
quote, unquote, adult, but and then, um, then you have to go
out to the workforce, and you really can't pick and choose
them. So that was like, oh, man, I want to be around, you know,
my own people. But I think my dad had foresight to understand
they see like, yeah, they're not going to accept you.
Right, so What school did you wind up going to?
I went to Riverside High School, which was about 5050 4060,
somewhere around there, which Durham is almost like 5050,
black, white, and Excel, which is strange. I mean, it's a
weird, unique, I'm gonna say unique, not weird, a unique
place to grow, because every other person you see is black. I
mean, at the time I was there, I mean, now it's a huge Hispanic
population. But yeah, it was just, I don't know, it just you
just feel it. You know what I used to think it was weird, or
you don't be like that Mo. Because, you know, that's not
the way things you need to think integrate it, you know,
integration mindset. But now that I work with a, in a
corporation that has people from all over the world, at lunch,
everybody sits with their own kind, is forced is unforced
segregation. I mean, it's weird go, you would look in the
cafeteria, it's like, oh, yeah, you have this group over there,
this group over there, you know, is. So it's like, you will
actually be made feel black people will be made, made to
feel bad, because you wanted to do that. But then you see
everybody else doing
so right. Now, I'll just wager though, at your high tech
executive, you know, you've got a lot of H two B visa workers,
you've got people who are in recent immigrant background,
right, which is a little a little different. But in
general, when it comes to food, you know, I went to a an
integrated college, not very long, because I just couldn't
stand what the hell I was doing there. And my roommate was black
kid from Trenton, New Jersey. And even around foods. Yeah,
there's so much difference in culturally in what, what we want
to eat. Of course, we all agreed on Mickey D's that was easy. And
I drive, but lunchtime, good food time is always going to be
interesting. And people will of course, gravitate towards people
who are maybe eating something they like.
I don't really think it's eating. Is that when you want to
speak in your native tongue that too? Yeah, sure. Sure. You know,
when you want to say a joke, and not have to explain it, right?
Or in other words, it's a bunch of different things.
Let me take your side. So what you're saying is, it's a natural
human occurrence to want to sit with your own culture.
Everybody wants to be around their own kind. Now, can you
intermingle with other people? Yeah, of course, and you
appreciate the things that other cultures bring, of course. And
that's why I don't really get so emotional about racism, because
I have a very unique and this is just me, I have a very unique
view on racism. Racism is a weird form of nepotism. Because
if you were able to hire somebody to look like you,
you're gonna do it because they're kind of like extended
family. That's how I look at it. Now, do people who charge it
with hate? Of course they do. I'm not I'm not denying what
you're saying. Okay, well, when you when you equate racism to
nepotism, it's kind of the reverse instead of, I'm better
than my because the textbook definition, my race is superior
to that person's race. Therefore, I'm going to hire the
superior person. It's a little different. And it's not about
superiority. It's like well, I feel comfortable with this
person.
I think is a merge of both what you said, because there's some
vanity Oh, yeah, we're the best. I think everybody thinks that up
there. Whatever group it is age group, boom, will versus course,
of course. So your group, you're going to feel that you're the
best. And then you say, well, since I, my groups the best I
want to surround myself around with that group, whether it be
to be comfortable, whether they be understand or whether, oh,
that's a distant cousin, me like, oh, well, no,
you're absolutely right. And in the corporate environment today,
the biggest problem I'd say is, of course, not racism, the
biggest problem is ageism, for the very reasons you outline
there is certainly in Silicon Valley, where there are 40 year
olds, 40 Plus, who are incredibly skilled at the
technological near the technological prowess, whatever
it is, let's just call it say coding engine software engineer.
But they're very, they don't get hired because people want to
have younger people around.
Yeah, cuz they think they know, younger people know, they don't
know anything. Well, true. I would just say that's how they
look at like, know how to download the app or whatever. I
mean, so I mean, that's why I say this. The reason why I say
this about and I'm going to be short on nepotism, where you go
into a situation you have a mindset of and I've done a lot
of growing in the last I guess, 1010 years, because just being
exposed to different things. I'm not gonna say the gender or the
nationality of my last boss, but the people that that person
hired, first shared the same nationality as them. The next
four people they hired. Yeah, sure. And then the next to
shared the same gender as them. Sure. So I'm looking at now I'm
like, Hold on is this. What is this saying? Like? It's
nepotism? Yeah, it's it's a standard form of nepotism. And
just for a little little comment, relief. I like
nepotism.
All right. Your daughter Ivanka will be taking Caroline's please
on The Apprentice. Correct. Nepotism?
That's true. Why I like nepotism, you know, can't take
care of your kids. You know that better than I was a big fan of I
liked nepotism, I think, you know, a lot of people say Oh,
nepotism. So usually these are people without children. I like
nepotism.
And just just to be to be completely clear, the textbook
definition of nepotism because a lot of people think it's only
relatives. Textbook, the practice among those with power
or influence have favoring relatives or friends. Especially
by giving them jobs, so it's not. Nepotism is often confused
with only only family but family friends. Yeah.
But is that a weird viewpoint? I mean, that's just how I look at
it. I mean, it sounds really take offense to
it. No, it sounds really honest. But you know what it is, in
today's social justice world, even saying that, and I should
probably play this clip on no agenda just just to make some
people's heads explode. Just saying it all so wrong. So from
nepotism, inept, a bedsheet nepotism is will be just as bad
certainly coming from a guy like Trump. Do people feel just as
bad as racism? You're sure it's an ism. You're cutting people
short you know, you're jumping other people not getting a fair
shot fair chance.
But people do it all the time. Whether it's religion, color,
gender, age.
Well, I don't know. I grew up and two things my mom always
said to me, and most of them no longer apply. So now you're 15
years younger than I am but I grew up with sticks and stones
will break my bones names will never hurt me.
And life is not fair.
So that's what I grew up with. And and I think it was important
that I heard that because like, well, you know, some shits
unfair and oh, yeah, life's unfair.
Okay. And a lot of people are unfair. They talk a good game
Sure. But if you if we got to choose between this this a
religion of somebody that Christian not me personally, but
somebody the Christian and the guy hiring as a Christian and
the other guy not sure. It's like, I gotta look out for my
Christian brother, which makes it family. You see what I'm
Going here, but I digress on that, but I'm just explaining to
you. This is a lot to explain about American history in the
history of race, as a lot is baked in it is nepotism in my
viewpoint. Sure. to expound on that more, I have a clip from
just to go. This is Muhammad Ali, I think in 1971, I want to
say on racial integration,
like people to move in the neighborhoods were clean their
neighborhoods. And another thing when you say integration, it
comes on the end of marriage to write together and I'm sure no
one tells you a white person watching this show no
intelligent white man and his or her right white man. Won't black
boys and black girls marrying their white sons and daughters,
and in return introducing their grandchildren as half brown,
kinky head black people, I am sure object. You wouldn't but a
lot of what I'm sure a lot of people
don't know. What I'm
trying to say is is what I'm trying to say is this. You don't
have it you say you don't you don't have it, you really ain't
gonna have it. He's on the show. And you got to say that
doesn't that's not true? Why would you want to do that?
Because I don't think I'm any different from USC.
Here we are, we must different made us different. We are
different. And we all together. Society
has made us different now in that society. God made us diff
No, no, we're just human beings. He made all of us. We all
listen,
blue birds fly with blue birds, Ray burrs on the birds. Just
listen to me when I'm wrong. Pigeons want to be with pigeons?
We must wish them they don't have intelligence. But yet they
stay together. We should have more intelligence than them.
Right.
Nice one. What you want here this from the corporate image of
Muhammad Ali?
No, no, no. There's a lot I've heard on this show that I never
heard from the corporate believe me.
And that's the point of why I'm doing this. You didn't hear
about the burning house. MLK, you didn't hear about this
corporate this stance that Ali had. And it's not like I said,
we all bring something to the table. We're all, you know,
created equally, but just differently. And that analogy I
use for that is a pound of feathers and a pound of stones.
They're both a pound. But there's two different things. So
always, so it's not like one one is superior, inferior. Whatever.
That's not the point is that, like peep Redbirds, like the
mute red birds blue birds like the blue blue birds now, can we
all stand together and make seeing this beautiful harmony,
of course, but which you won't hear this? Because he's like,
it's a narrative.
Very, very unpopular thing to say Mo. And I just like to take
a moment to recognize the conversation we're having here.
I think it's incredibly valuable. It is to me, and I
hope other people who are listening consider that because,
you know, take, it takes trust, it takes work. It is a shitload
of work. You're doing mo on producing this. And I think it's
valuable. And I want everyone to consider thinking about us. Mo
fund me.com.
I appreciate that, Adam. And it is is it is brave. Is brave for
that. And I'm not saying that because we're the to having a
conversation, but it's unscripted. You don't know what
I'm gonna come with. I don't know what your response is going
to be. But we show up every week to have a conversation to kind
of enlighten each other. Yes. I've learned just as much as
I've shared, because I only can see things through my eyes. Now
this colorblind thing they want to do. Oh, we're colorblind? No,
we're not. No, no, we're not no, no. Inessa does such such
disrespectful because it's like, oh, yeah, you're not gonna
respect the person to see them for who they are, you know, you
want them to fit inside of a box.
I think eventually, on the show, we're going to pinpoint the
moment where this all went haywire. Where it was, it may be
it's a it's a long period of time. But the idea that it just
does not okay to say hey, we're a little different. Now, this
show is set up to have different you know, that's the whole
concept is the two different two American guys coming from
different backgrounds. shooting the shit, you're talking about
stuff. But somewhere, it became very unpopular. To say, you
know, it's like, Moe and I, we talk two hours a week and then
he's with his buddies. I'm with my buddies, you know, whatever.
And we don't really have integrated lives that way. But
it's the way maybe it should be. This is a very enlightening
thought.
And it's okay to be different. We don't have to be This
culturally, society, everybody wants to tuck their culture away
and like, oh, no, no, I don't I don't, I'm not that kind of that
a word or this kind of that, you know, I'm, I'm even being
American he's like, Oh, I'm not that kind of American you know,
I'm this brand safe Americans like no, I'm me.
You know I like it at the military is actually a good
example but a buddy of mine taxi Eric in in Amsterdam. He's a cab
driver, but he was on an oil rig for eight years. Yeah, that's
like two weeks, three weeks on two weeks off. And, and he would
tell me stories because you know, you fly it was in the
North Sea. So you'd get on a helicopter very dangerous. You
know, with 25 people in one helicopter, you land on this
little pinhead in the middle of the the angry sea. there and
it's all different backgrounds, particularly from Europe,
there's guys from Croatia, there's a Polish there's a lot
of British there's an even differences with the Irish and
the Scots, the Dutch, the Belgians, and they all come
together and they all perform this miraculous dangerous work
on a on a drilling platform. But he was saying, yeah, the Brits
are over there that drink in their stuff, and that and you're
sure we hang out, but we work really well together. And, and
we're professionals. But yeah, it was, you know, those guys do
that. And they have that and they got their special meal and
do their thing. And those guys like to stay up at night. And
somehow that's just the way it works. But it also just worked
because they all wanted to be there for a common goal. But it
was the differences that gave him the interesting stories.
Like, oh, those guys were crazy. He's what they used to do.
And to speak on separation. Your is mostly white people, quote
unquote, white people, I mean, just the use of the corporate
designation, but they are separated into small little
nation to Hell yeah. So it's like, it's okay for them to say
all non French. I'm British. I'm this I'm that I'm Italian, you
know?
Well, interestingly, no. The European Union, the project
known as the European Union, is going exactly the opposite. Shut
up. We're all the same, we all have the same. We have the same
passport, we all have the same money. We all kind of want to do
the same things. And you're going to do it the way we tell
you to because we're the European Union Starfleet
Command. So the globalists are definitely moving in the
opposite direction, which is, I think was what you're pointing
out is where the friction comes from.
And that's the point of was this a test run to say if we can make
the total opposite merge the rest of the world it will be a
piece of cake, and
I liked that conspiracy theory.
Because a lot of things that came out of America and his 60s,
it was just pushed around the world. And this I mean, well,
60s 70s and even 80s were pushed around the world is this is one
world one everything 11111
World one government. Imagine all the people
write the Coca Cola thing. Yeah, exactly.
So Well, that was different. That was that was I'd like to
teach the world in perfect harmony. That was a very good
example of they have a Colors of
Benetton. So I have a clip from Mr. Malcolm X. And he's going to
explain the difference between segregation and separation.
Is it fair to say as a generality and as I said,
succinct way to put it that you believe in segregation of the
races, no segregation is that which is Mr. Muhammad says that
segregation is that which is forced upon inferiors, by
superiors. Separation is done voluntarily by two equals, you
never refer to the Oriental community in which Orientals
live exclusively as a segregated community. Because they live
there voluntarily. They everything there is controlled
by them, the economy, the politics, the civic
organizations, but the negro community is referred to as a
segregated community, because Negroes are forced to live in
that community, contrary to their will, and they don't
control the businesses of their community. They don't control
the politics of their community nor their social
life. Right. So that's the difference between segregation
and separation. I think we all appreciate a little separation,
because when you go to worship houses, all of America, most of
them tend to people worship with people that look like them, in
one way, shape, or form. But one thing he brought up was the
control in their community. So this is where this story hits
home for me. All over America. There were small, but prosperous
black cities. You had a rosewood you had Tulsa. I'm sure you
heard of Oh, I'm Newark. Yeah, I mean, and you're a newer Harlem,
all these places that were was booming, but the one and my city
was called Hey, Todd district. And hey, Todd district. Well,
I'll let this clip explain it. How
come of age when it was flush, you know, with black businesses
along fail the street along Pedigo street black businesses
and commercial neighborhoods, but you have five tobacco
companies here universal legal mass, who Robertson, American
Tobacco Company Imperial. And so a lot of folks went right to
tobacco facts good thing about in megapack they were all
unionized jobs. So they gave you know, black people have an
opportunity to, to use against you know, discrimination or
whatever else happening.
Okay, I'm looking this up now. The hate tide district.
Yep. So as a kid, they would. I was a young Freedom Rider. I
think it's like seventh grade. They put us on the bus and they
wrote us around like we were in the civil rights movement.
Where was it? What is it like a Civil War reenactment only for
civil rights movements?
Yeah, pretty much. Okay. Yeah, so they put us on the bus. I
mean, it was for the kids that we know we're pretty
academically.
Is this once a year was there a certain date?
Of course you know, black history might come on
oh, that's right. What is that these days? Is that March I
forget. It's February I never realized
the coldest of the short 28 days just want to
find out what douchebag proclaim that first. I wonder who came up
with that? That's that is that is as fucked up as what that is
as very funny.
Everybody else getting better monsters after us. It's like, we
need to swap this man out. If you're gonna give other people
months. I would much rather have June you
need a refund on the word. Cool. Proclaim this first I want to
know. That was first proposed by black educators and the black
United students at Kent State University.
Educators. Okay. The first
celebration of Black History. So cynical MO The first Black
History Month took place at Kent State one year later January 2
to February 28. So that was two months, huh? Okay, President
Gerald Ford recognized black history month for the first
time. Thanks, Drew. Yeah, wow, he was a bumbling fool.
Yeah, we got Yeah. This easier to remember. Just easy to
remember what?
I'll never I'll never forget that. Yes, I'm sure you will.
And, and by the way, everybody in case you you don't remember,
all of the things we discussed are in the show notes at mo fund
mo facts.com. As we can find all these links.
So yep. So that but yeah, just to go they will take us to hate
time and they will tell us a story of how Hey, Tom Woods is a
dentist in doctors offices and taxi cabs and everything dry
cleaners ever it was all self sufficient part of town and, and
the crown jewel, one of the crown jewels that was hillside
High School. The black high school. So it was this, this
rich history. But what they did was and this is gonna be another
show for another day. They destroyed it with urban renewal.
They took the Durham freeway and ran it right slap dab in the
middle of Hayti
Wow. So you got a West Side east side or north and south
whichever it was.
Yes, I think it was east and west. Yeah. So that's what you
saw this same image and I promise I'm going to do his show
later on. But this wasn't just a a one off thing it was this
happened all over urban renewal highways ran right in the middle
and it was similar to what they're doing this goes wait
it's a wait though back guys. I think it's like show two three.
What we talked about general gentrification. Yeah, they were
taking the railway in LA.
And destroying Yes, yes, yes. Let's see if this
is the same play or manual. I said these plays work so well.
That they don't have to switch up and guess who was on board
all all the black politicians quote unquote the blue Hey
there, we're all yeah bring them on bring the money bringing
money in. They destroyed the community. And this is why you
had a need to have integrated schools because you destroyed
the community. So it's depressing. I know
this is just wait, let's let's remember to do a show on urban
renewal. That might be a whole show right there that's pretty
Yeah,
make make a market and I'll get back to it but the reason why I
bring this up bring it home to Durham is I was sitting on the
couch one day and this movie trailer comes home for the best
enemies
and at water last night, electrical fire destroyed East
End Elementary School. We kind of go to school now. Go find new
sewing feel nice to go. Back kids going attempts go. Oh, come
on. They're gonna pump somewhere missing be put on the hottest
way and
we're gonna be school segregation once and for all.
Listen, I'm never gonna get down to city hall tonight. Who's
next? They say you represent a great many people in this town
and move out of bed. I'm holding the committee meeting, the
council
will vote to either adopt or reject school integration.
I need to co chair humanity. And I'm the president and clamp.
He's about to hand you the keys to stool integration. You go
lock this door was you looking at Crazy white man? Holy crap.
This is the story about Durham, Durham. Yeah, yeah. My city is
rich with history. Wow, he's super rich with history. I can
see what I saw but hold on what they're making a movie out of
that. But of course they made it a you know one of those
Boulay box office Bonanza you know
how it goes like, oh, that club head
it got the head of the clan and
of course like a buddy cop. It's like a buddy cop movie. What is
ours? What?
So we got a white dude with a black woman and then it's a
button movie now. Change? Yes. Oh, this I'd love the subtitle
change is worth fighting for. So what they're gonna save it now
in the movie.
Yeah, they say but as always, I don't go with the narrative. I
go get the true story behind best of enemies.
He was upset and I was upset. And he was cursing and calling
all black folks than I was calling all white folks. And I
couldn't stand white folks. Anyway, the children talk to us
and got us together saying that they wanted to go to school with
each other. And then we looked at each other like food we've
been arguing about the wrong thing.
She was bold and clearly never minced words activist and
Atwater herself recalling the moment when she and CPL is to
have good look at themselves and turn things around for the
greater good and much to their and everyone else's surprise,
wonder friendship? Does he does the talking for me starting to
rise up heads and as Atwater Have you read course. And Sam
Rockwell as Ellis the film explores how their relationship
evolved through being forced to work together.
Cpl is
he act like he was the meanest man in the world that wanted to
cut his head off.
She can upset the world with her mouth that she wants
to I take these two people that hate each other, and they're
calling each other all kinds of whatever whatnot. Let's put them
to their kids together to school and see how that works. What
could go wrong? Exactly. Best enemies to
when people say white people say there's I don't have a racist
bone in my body. It's like, did they get D boned or something?
Because otherwise, you grew up in a white supremacist society.
Just the fact that you're going to have biases and prejudices
like I do. And the thing is to work on that to acknowledge it,
and then like CP,
to overcome that, in turn it widened OSHA scope.
You know, we have this myth of a class or a society and democracy
for all no racism. And then there's the uncomfortable truth
of our traumatic history. So it was the intersection of race,
class and gender that allowed this story to come together and
to explore those issues. And sadly, those issues are just as
relevant today and still need to be worked on.
All right. So now how do we know how this movie ends? This 2019
version of history?
Oh, you heard him are buddies and they get along and
everything's good. They live happier. Yeah. Happily ever
after. Do you know how it goes? So
instead of instead of showing that it's hard, and that yes,
people have biases on all sides, and they like being with their
own kind, but they can work together instead of that.
They're going to say that this is how it works or it's it all
works fine. Shut up. Is that what is that what this movie is
doing? Of course,
it all works fine, because the intersection
I heard it, I heard it. I heard it. He said it right there the
intersection Yes. of race. Was it race?
gender, gender, and something else?
I don't know. Does it whatever sexuality Yeah, so um,
yeah. Yeah. Oh, about Yeah, who funds
these things? By the way, Sam Rockwell's is a pretty big name
for this movie.
Yeah, I mean, it was a it was a nice size movie.
I got I gotta watch it now. I'm sure it's streaming.
I'm sure. All it Yes. Probably. Yes to 2018 so it's probably on
Netflix or one of those.
was 2009 to April five. 2019.
Okay, I 18 Am I okay. All right. Yeah, so yeah, here we are. I
was like, what? Alright, come on. I mean, the leader of the
clan leader. The leader
was in Durham.
No, that's not what I'm saying. Like, bro, if you can be easily
shaking that I'm questioning your leadership abilities.
But leader he is. Yeah, it's easy to just change him
right. So there's a silver lining in all of this talk. Ah,
so we can take a deep breath and we have schools integrated and
not only schools but now the kk k is integrated.
kk k is rebranding itself and in an effort to do so they're being
more inclusive. They are allowing Hispanics blacks, Jews
and gays to join in on the fun now, they say that they have
completely changed what they're missing admission is they've
even renamed themselves the Rocky Mountain knights which is
interesting. And here is what they are arguing the kk k is for
strong America. White supremacy is the old clan. This is the new
clan but if you want to join this new version of the kk k all
those wanting to join the ultra right wing society will have to
wear the white robes masks and the hats that they wear.
This is a great clip. Where did you get this? I missed this
memo. I mean, I I was at the meeting, but I get the memo. I
hope you wouldn't. Of course not. But that's I didn't know
about this and no one. No one informed me.
This is how far integration is gone. You could join the clan
who wish which firm
did this rebranding Hill and Knowlton Wayne This is
fantastic.
But what you want to disband the clan. I mean like oh yes, we're
gonna keep the head the hoods in the hat. And the sheets, but you
you you're more than welcome to wear them. Which is
this is great. And this is a newsflash, I don't understand.
Why is this not top of the news? How did I miss this? When did
when did this? Where did this come from
this clip these clips young young, young fairies.
Oh man. That's fantastic. Well, problem solves.
But there's more. Oh, of
course there is.
But then this quote did you get the quote from Jimmy Simmons?
YES. Jimmy Simmons, a president of the Montana NAACP chapter
said that while he questioned the use of the letters K K. K.
If the peace summit took place, he would quote, take a strong
look at joining the Rocky Mountain knights.
This is why the NAACP is in the risk in some places of becoming
an irrelevant organization. And not enough young people in the
NAACP. Like who How did you get to be the president of the
Montana chapter of the NAACP, and this guy's rebranding it and
as a big giant right wing group and you'll have to carry what
kind of what kind of leader are you? No, no, that's that's not
that's not Jimmy Simmons.
Don't join you heard that right. I am. My mouth is a gasp
this NAACP he presently is willing to join the kk k, the
rebranded kk k, you let that soak in from the original clip
of who put Brown versus Board of Education up to this. And our
top that will Mr. Joel spin Garn, who was the spa, leader of
the NAACP. You let all that sink in. I put their foot there for a
reason.
Yes. Well, the NAACP has been mentioned throughout the past
hour and a half in all of these clips. And now you're gonna go
gut punch me at the end here and tell me that the NAACP is
willing to join the kk k.
And take us right into that burning house.
Wow. All right. Mo. That what a journey. It's like a roller
coaster that ended in a brick wall.
I'm sorry about that.
Just slam
up join the kk k. Wouldn't it make more sense for the K K K to
join the NAACP? I mean, just for optics? You think?
Oh, man. Well,
the crazy. I thought I was crazy. I don't know.
So we need to follow up on this next week. I need to know what
happened. Yeah. And I need a picture of the guy with the with
his with his hood on with the sheets. That's, that's really
incredible.
Very, this is integration for you. It's like, oh, yeah, we can
work to change our ways. But come on, join the group.
So the next time you hear something coming up in the news
about school vouchers, school choice, et cetera. Think of this
episode and think about the historical background of of this
forced integration and you got to look at the lawyers lawyers
are involved in what children are they using for this or
abusing for this?
Yes, cuz child abuse is quite common to push political motors.
Is that ever? Well, it solidifies my thinking that
we're on the right track with the show mo This is one of the
few places you can get this kind of honest dialogue honest look
at historical American history. And, and I appreciate you
appreciate you very much for for doing all the work and putting
it together. It's, it's once again, you've made my week.
I'm glad I could do that sir. And as I always say, pay
attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself and
we'll
return next week here on mo facts with Adam curry. Make sure
you tune in subscribe and support us at mo fund me.com