mo facts with Adam curry from November 12 2019. This is
episode number 14. And it's been too long mo
14 days 14 show this I'm ready.
Yeah, I gotta apologize. You know, I had to rush off to
Europe had an opportunity to see my daughter who lives in
Rotterdam. And Moe and I have kind of one agreement amongst
the two of us as family first. So family first family first.
Yeah. And then Then what happened?
Then Then I had family first yesterday because my father was
in town. All right, and celebrating Veterans Day.
So yes, indeed. And he's a vet. Right?
Yes. served in the Navy. It's so family first again. So we're
here.
We're best. Let me ask you a question before we get into the
episode. And I'm very excited, of course, because I know you've
had you've had two weeks to get something ready. And I'd see we
have a number of clip Blitz. Yes. Ready in the waiting. I
want to remind everybody that the work that you hear here,
here here is done on the value for value system, which means
after you listen to a mo facts, was it worth your time, what is
your time worth? All you have to do is let us know what you think
by sending a donation to mo fax with Adam curry, you can do that
at mo fax.com Or a direct link mo fund me.com mov fund me.com.
And that would be highly appreciated. Especially because
there's a lot of work that goes into this Mo and I'm gonna lay
that down at your feet. You've got another I presume fantastic
topic and episode lined up. And then I see clips from CBS to Fox
to God knows where from this has got to be a doozy. What are we
doing?
Alright, so as, as we talked about, sometimes you know what
the top is going to be and sometimes it is a surprise. So I
would like to unwrap this show topic with the ISO
device zation mentality.
Top of the list victimization mentality. Nice.
So this is a bleed over from the last episode we had, we're
talking about Mr. Kanye West. And that was one of the sound
bites we got from him. And I have to be honest with you,
after last show a lot of things stuck with me. brought up some
great topics. One being the term black and we met we coined a
term called Black guilt. Yes.
First time you've ever heard it said in public between a mixed
company.
I'm thinking it might be the first time we're saying Ever.
Ever. Yeah, you heard it here first
that did you get it? Did you get any feedback on that
specifically?
Actually, I did not. Entirely not. So I think it is a real
phenomenon. And, um, and it was something else you brought up
too. That stuck with me? The apologetic, subconscious
apologetic thing that I did
write which which led into you saying that this was a version
of Black guilt? Yes, exactly. Yes. And by the way, the
responses I got from people was, Oh, my God, that's so
interesting. That both as kids, although it wasn't we weren't in
the same situation. But as kids, we both kind of were conditioned
by our, by our, our own families, and culture and
background, to be very uncomfortable with each other,
which wasn't really necessary when you think about
it. It wasn't, but it's the unknown. Of course, of course,
we you live when you live with expectations. And I think that's
what the I don't think that's what this show is gonna really
go into is understanding how that victim and victimization
mentality is formed, and how it's received across, you know,
across the spectrum of both groups of people. So, we got,
like you said, we have a bunch of clips here. So from the last
show, I had a clip slip. And I want to show an example of how
victimization mentality manifests itself.
Jack Dorsey Steve Jobs, but deed is off forget about us.
So that is Big Boy talking to Kanye, right? And Kanye was
rattling off the people that he's come in contact with. And
big boy says Don't
forget about us. That was kind of interesting. Yes.
It was such a short clip. Let's just I didn't set that up. Well,
can we run that back one more time so we can just hear the
pain and anguish in his voice when he said that
Jack Dorsey Nice Steve Jobs. But deed is don't forget about us.
Yeah,
you know, wow, in context is kind of like saying, you know
all the big boys, they're not part of your family or something
like that, I guess.
Yes, I don't. You're moving on,
by the way, major, major shareholder of Apple, of course,
is Dre with his beats, beats acquisition. So it's not like
it's just some old white gay dude
at the top. It's the thought process that they're worried
about.
Right on.
And that's why I want to talk about when when that whether
apology comes from that apology comes from not out of I feel
sorry that I'm offending you is, I feel sorry that I'm free, and
you're not. Oof. That's really that thought about this for 14
days, Eric, because when you said, and that's why I love this
show. I love doing it. Because we get into places where no man
has gone before.
Yes. Especially in my mind, because I was like, I do do
that. I do apologize. But like I said, it's not out of all I'm
sorry. It's not out a sense of pilot up is empathy and
sympathy, because it's like, wow, you can't mentally get
free, right off of the quote, unquote. And I'm not going to
make it political, but thought plantation, I will refuse to be
a victim anymore. But I can't bring you with me.
So this is what Kanye means when he's talking about free man free
man talking.
Yes, gotcha. And so let's get into the show topic. Explain
what a great drug dealer does, is they make the people who buy
the paraphernalia from them feel like their friends or their
buddies. It's not just a business transaction, I also
care about you, we see that same dynamic between the so called
black man and woman and the super liberal Caucasian here in
Western society, especially here in America, what what the super
liberal Caucasian will tend to do is to try to make the so
called black male and female, but especially the so called
black male, believe that he should always resort to his
emotions, when it comes to evaluating what is going on in
society around him. Because what the super liberal Caucasian
knows is that by doing that, he will always ensure that the so
called black man remains a vassal to him and a servant of
his and that is what the quote unquote drug dealer does with
those who buy the product from him or her. They always want to
make you feel like you need what they have to offer you. You
cannot replace that sensation or that high anywhere else,
especially in some way shape or form that's actually going to be
lifting you up and constructing you and building you up, rather
than tearing you down incrementally.
Wow, that's a great analogy. Who said this? Who was that
speaking?
This is chronicles a JR. He's a popular YouTuber. And I think he
meant he has some very great takes. And I think he explained
it with this analogy between the unfree black and I don't wanna
say slave because it's completely different. It's, it's
unfree. You untethered. No, it's I can't steal away. Yeah. Yeah.
No, it's
actually they're still tethered. You're tethered? Yeah.
Yeah. So yeah, they can't pull themselves away from the dynamic
that's been created for them. And that's like, you're a
victim. You're a victim. You're a victim. Yeah, I mean, the only
way you will be heard is to be a victim,
I just wanted to my own reflection on the on the Kanye
show.
Was,
it's it's kind of sad that the way things are going today,
neither of us are really allowed to have our own culture, and to
have our own background and to have our own things. You know,
that that it's like, Yeah, everybody's equal. But no, we're
different. We're distinctly different in a whole bunch of
things, but doesn't mean that we're not equal, but that
somehow that's gotten convoluted. And it's like, well,
you have to have to all think the same and be the same and one
of the most as I'm older now, one of the most enjoyable things
is the differences and and the oddities that's what I that's
what I love about this show. It's like I'm learning all kinds
of stuff about my friend Moe, who has is an American has a
different background. Hey, Lottie Oh, you could, you could
be from the Midwest and you'd have a different regardless of
skin color. So that was that was kind of my reflection on all of
this is it seems like society is not willing to just say hey, you
know what? black people, white people read people, yellow
people, brown people, they're they're all different. But we
have some common things that makes us Americans.
Where your culture is replaced. It's not like you're not it is
void. We do have a culture here in America. And it's not the
American culture, but it's a culture of consumerism. Yes. Oh,
wow. We replace Yes, you're right, that we replaced. Because
the reason why I noticed this is well work is that it's a high
tech company. And we bring a lot of people in from outside of
America. Yep. Probably. India, China. Sure, yes. So when they
first get there, they bring their culture. And now we're
starting to hire more second gen. American slash wherever
they're from. So they were born Indian American. And there's a
total this. There's this distinction there. Between the
new hires that come straight from whatever country and the
ones that are second gen from here and America. Sure. The
second gen hold no, by Okay, um, we had a cultural festival. And
the ones that came here directly from their home country dressed
up in their traditional attire. Second jeans, no, no, not at
all. Right. So I don't think there's a distinct it's not
distinct, just a black or white Americans. I think you have to
give up whatever culture you had to take part in the corporate
culture that we have here in America. Okay. So with that
said, there were some going ons.
Yes. Wow. We are while we were while we were away, some
sabbatical went down.
So I'm Brock Obama. He was at his Obama con or Obama
Foundation foundation Summit. Yeah, I
just call it like Obama calm it has a nice connotation. Very
good.
All right. So um, and he had a clip where he called out the
woke culture,
you know, this, this idea of purity and you're never
compromised, and you're always politically broke and all that
stuff as they you should get over that quickly. The world The
world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do
really good stuff, have flaws. People who you are fighting may
love their kids. Me. And, you know, share certain things with
you. And I think that one danger I see among young people,
particularly on college campuses, Malia and I talk about
this Yeah, it goes to school with my daughter. But I do get a
sense sometimes now among certain young people and this is
accelerated by social media. There is this sense sometimes of
the way of me making change is to be as judgmental as possible
about other people. And that's enough like if I tweet or
hashtag about how you didn't do something right or use the word
wrong verb or then I can sit back and feel pretty good about
myself because man you see how woke I was I called you out
and I had a had an initial response to this which you
probably heard on a no agenda but the more I hear it, the more
questions I have about it. But for me initially, it was like
Oh, all right, good on you. Brock called I mean, there's
some weird stuff in there like using a verb or I was pretty
sure he meant pronoun but maybe I was wrong. But in general to
say hey man, you use coming out of college you in college, do
this column people out and then you know thinking that you've
done your job. I kinda like that
I call bullshit All right, Glenn. The reason why I say that
is one he wanted to say pronoun, but he know he would have got
canceled by certain demographics. Yeah, so he's
bright, his brain did a quick
and used another word, right?
Instead of it started another word. And you know what? The,
the people that will be that would possibly cancel him. I did
a quick search on the social media, you know, across social
media platforms, and they picked up on it. We know what you
wanted to say. Okay. Good. Oh, wrong. Wrong verb I mean, what I
mean, what is that? I mean, who calls out the mean, but I won't
go there, but okay,
well, yeah, that's what I thought too is that he was like,
whatever. Yeah.
But the reason why the main reason I call bullshit is they
created the woke monster. Yeah, him. Yes. And he made whole, the
whole council culture was bred out of the self righteousness
that we've talked about on previous shows. They're very
idealistic. And now what happens is these mosques, these little
monsters just you create it that you raised. And you think
they're the kids that were 10 years old when Barack Obama took
office? Well, what this 10 plus eight plus three or 11. So you
got kids what is ready to vote? Yeah. Yeah, 678 years old, I
made my math correct. I'm just doing it to top my head, but you
created these little monsters, and now you're trying to corral
them back into vote. That's what this is all about. I know, I
know, Biden might not be you know, the hippest guy and all
the terminology. But we look past that. We need you to go
vote. That's what this is all about.
Well, yes. And I agree. I think it was it. In retrospect, it
does sound like it was he was talking more about Joe Biden
than anything.
And that's why I told you picked up on and like I said, my BS
meter is is
tagged, it's pegged.
But that wasn't the biggest takeaway from Obama con. Oh, for
people that's not familiar, we have to remind them who the new
Holy Trinity is. In black America. I want to start by just
talk giving you a little perspective of my my household
in the 70s. If you were like me, growing up in the 70s, there are
portraits of MLK, JFK, and Jesus hung on on a lot of folks walls.
That was the Trinity. Today, the trinity of Oprah, Beyonce, and
Michelle Obama could almost replace them.
I you know, I could have done that from memory. But I'm glad
you did it on a clip. It's more powerful. But I've been trained
now I know. I know, the old and the new Holy Trinity. I know I'm
not I know I'm in.
So one of the new Holy Trinity spoke to miss Michelle Obama.
And let's just hear what she had to say. And Obama con.
Our family wasn't unique. And that's it as we talk about
Chicago, and the south side. You know, Mom always says she's the
one that will keep our little heads down. It will keep us
humble. She's like their million Craig and Michelle and Brock's
out there. It's just that our stories don't get told. We get
caricatures because of the color of our skin because of fear,
because of a whole lot of stuff. Because we don't know each
other. We think that this this family this this beautiful
portrait was the portrait of everybody in our neighborhood.
And of all of our family members. This This was not
unique. You know, everyone we knew, got up every day and did
what they were supposed to. They held down jobs, they kept their
lawns mowed. They strive to give their kids good values and
access to better things, which is one of the reasons we moved
from Martin Luther King Drive to 74th in Euclid because my mom
wanted us to have access to then what were better schools. But
unbeknownst to us, we grew up in the period as I write of called
white flight. Okay,
white flight white flight. Yes.
Are you familiar with that term?
You know, I have heard this I could not define it for you.
Okay, white
flight. Just in very simple terms. That's when black family
start to move into the white community. And then the white
people start moving out. Oh, okay.
For as light or as we say, in Archie Bunker land. There goes
the neighborhood.
So yeah, so when I heard this, I'm like, why are you talking
about white flight? white flight hasn't happened. And God 3040
years. I mean, we're talking about the 60s here when when
white flight really happened.
Just before Archie Bunker came on TV exactly that.
So what we have to do is unpack what she really said one, she
said she left MLK Boulevard, I guess Yeah. And move into
another neighborhood to access better schools.
Mm. Who are you leaving? Where are you? Why is she doing black?
Black flight?
Well, yes, of course, that's black flight that's moving on
you. Right? And so I'm just saying, I mean, when we hear
these terms, um, and then also on the clip, she says, Well, all
the families were like, without lived around, what are they
saying were the same. Um, but then, as they always do, the
more you let them talk, she's gonna talk about the picture
that they took, and who took the picture? And just see if you can
catch the discrepancy in this next clip, then previous what
she said in a previous clip.
Where was that? What was going on?
How did that picture come to be? What do you remember about it?
Well, it was. That's in our backyard. On 74th in Euclid. And
these are some of my favorite pictures, because it's the first
time I remember us having what was a formal photography
session. But it was really the daughter of our Uncle Terry,
Robbie and Terry didn't have children. He had a previous
marriage that he had a daughter that was in school. And I think
she had a photography project where she had to photograph a
family. And I think she picked us because we were the only the
sort of full family she knew with mom, dad, two kids.
Oh, so much for every family being like us. She was the only
family with a full family and two kids and the yard was nice.
It's really very different from what she said.
Absolutely. And this isn't the same, this the same talk? Yeah,
sure. In the same flow of the same interview, or sit down,
whatever you want to call it with her. Who was there was her
her brother and the interviewer?
Well, we'll say just referring briefly back to the previous
clip, she says, we get character, character tchard.
Yep. Because people don't know, basically through ignorance. And
I would say there's some, I think that's fair to say. I
wasn't against what she was saying there. But then this
whole rap is bullcrap. She's just contradicting herself. And
that's
what they do. The more you listen to him, the more they go
back and forth. And I want you to bookmark that caricature
thing, because that's gonna be a common thing. And as we go on
for it to have, how is that caricature created? Who shapes
that? Because if you don't like you say, You didn't know I mean,
before you taught began to talk to me every day, you didn't know
the inner workings of, of, of the black know, quote, unquote,
black community now. So all you had was what the mainstream
media presented to you?
A little bit from college, you know, Mike,
was saying, but the inner workings? Oh, yeah,
totally, totally. So from the Jeffersons the Cosby's Oh, yeah,
I admit that freely. Absolutely.
And that's, that's how we learned because if you don't
have the personal associations, but she goes on to talk more
about white flight, that is
families like ours, upstanding families like ours, you know,
who were doing everything we were supposed to do, and better.
As we moved in, white folks moved out, because they were
afraid of what our families represented. And I always stop
there when I talk about this out, out in the world, because,
you know, I want to remind white folks that y'all were running
running from us, you know, because of this family, this
family, this family, with all the values that you read about,
Yeah, you were running from us, and you still run because we're
no different than the immigrant families that are moving in the
families in Pilsen the the families that are coming from
other places to try to do better. But because we can so
easily wash over who we really were because of the color of our
skin. Now because of the the texture of our hair. You know,
that's what divides country's artificially as artificial
things that don't even touch on the values that people bring to
life. And so yeah, I felt I feel a sense of injustice. And you
know, this when you're young, you know, people are running
from you, you know, and you can see it, you can see it all of a
sudden we because we grew up with friends of all races when
we first moved in, Rachel Dempsey and Susan yakker and I,
you know, you had friends of all races we played together. There
were no gang fights. There were no territorial battles, but yet,
one by one, they pack their bags and they ran from us, and they
left communities in shambles.
Wow. It's quite the accusation there. What happened if ever
When I was hanging out and having a good time, then all of
a sudden they start moving out. This is confusing to me.
We're gonna get there, well, we're gonna get there. But let's
just unpack the logic of what she's saying. So she lived in
one community and had to be all black. I mean, we had to make
that before she moved into the white community. So it was okay
for her and her parents to leave one community behind because of
that element that was in that community to move to another
community, right. And they you say, well, we moved here as good
upstanding black folks, you know, salted the earth black
folks wish they wish they are. I'm not understand poopoo on
that. But then the white people just suddenly move because they
saw you come in. Okay, so they left. who replaced them? Well
had to be black P
logically, yeah, logically would have to be black people. Yes.
So now you're uncomfortable with being around your own kind of
game that you tried to run away from? Who really has I mean,
when you say we we need to use some logic here. I think she's
you ran from your own people, which I mean, I can say we if
you live in a poor neighborhood, I'm gonna stop,
stop, stop, because you just said the key word. Because the
Obamas now live in a predominantly white neighborhood
in Washington, DC, and no one's running away from them. This is
this is the difference between poor and rich. You know, it's a
class. It's an income. It's a it's a wealth issue. I don't
think it's much of a race issue. It certainly doesn't seem that
way when people are all fat and happy.
Well, what she's saying is about in the 1960s and 70s, when she
was a child, yeah, this is this era. That's why I say she's
going back with I don't understand why she's going back
that far. But we do because exactly what her husband was
talking about. This, you know, this call virtue signaling. Oh,
you know, she goes and feeds the animals. She feeds it red meat.
Yeah. Like, oh, I remember white flight and when they rent from
us, no, but okay, what do you want to hold people by the same
standard? You did the same thing? Yeah.
Because they filled up with black people. Apparently, it was
time to leave.
Right. And then soon as the vacant spots that will lead
white people left behind federal black people. The neighborhood
became bad again, Bob, I hurt my heart definition. Yeah. You just
gotta listen to her. So as I always do, you gotta go back.
Here we go. We had to get context to white flight in
Chicago in 1969.
The Cabrini Green Project is what public housing has come to
symbolize in Chicago for more than a quarter of a century. But
in an effort to disperse the city's poor who are mostly
black, the new public housing proposals call for construction
of duplexes, two storey townhouses, three story
apartment buildings, all of these scattered in the
predominantly white areas of Chicago. This lot on Kaminski
Avenue was one of 275 sites identified under federal court
order by the Chicago Housing Authority for low income
families would have a duplex on a street of single family homes,
and the homeowners are obviously upset.
All I got to see is all the do gooders. All the people are
always telling us what to do. They don't practice what they
preach on it, they go over there and put them by their
neighborhoods, they won't do it. They're always telling us what
to do. Or we have a few rights of around.
Value of everybody's property. What do you think? Why do you
see those other projects that he didn't take care of? We're gonna
go tell me, you have the stage, you're gonna go there, they're
gonna go there to their minds will get used to live with them.
What else can you say?
Wow, I'm having like a time warp. I'm hearing this same
report today. This exact same report can be played today, if
you didn't make you love that guy out of it. But it's this
same report.
And this is the problem I have with forced integration. If you
want to fix the problem, let me I know that triggered a lot of
people when I said that, but instead of the fixed in the
communities that the black people were in, or spread out,
you know, spread them out amongst into white communities.
How would that how does that work? I don't understand how
that solves the problem. If the schools are bad and black, quote
unquote, black communities, why don't you put the resources
there to fix the schools? Why would you why would you want to
nail this is how they were blessing. And the reason why I
say that is I have a personal perspective of this because my
father, he went to all black all black schools up until his
senior year. And they may force him and his classmates to
integrate. Right? He hated it. Now,
yeah, that's kind of universally accepted that there was not a
great idea what was going on.
But that's not the M. V vision that when we always talk about
what fact is and what they what they paint as the story, the
story is all black kids are dying to go to white schools,
you know, um, and that just wasn't the case. Be like, why he
would just say, it's the life. We want to have more resources.
Now schools might like my dad would say, we just want better
textbooks. And yeah, not
being shipped off into some other hood absolutely makes no
sense.
And that's what they did with this case in Chicago. Let
me let me just say this, this is early white guilt. And I
recognize this not that I have it, but I recognize this this I
recognize is, well, we should we should be sharing what are our
wealth with the poor black people? We should, we should
bring them here given them equal opportunity. It's completely
corrupt. I mean, it's, we said we'd say crooked thinking in the
Netherlands, it's bad translation. But it's, it's
it's, it just makes it's dumb. It's dumb. I can one, go ahead.
Here's the logic, I think. And like I said, I'm not a white
person. So I think that white people didn't have that thought
of, if we they're too concentrated. If we can dilute
them out, you know that then they'll assimilate better. I
think that's the real that's a very unpopular thought. No, no,
no. No, we can, you know, we can spread them out. You know, we
can influence them.
Will there be a good influence on them? You watch, right? They
can change it can get better. He can still awesome. civilize
them. Yes. They're just feral over there. Let's bring them Oh,
my God. Mo. That's, that's horrible. Now that exposed me to
this fallacy as nasty.
And that's their real racism. Yes. Yes. Yes. Victimization
mentality.
Totally.
Is not that we give them chalk and blackboards and take the
lead plank pain out of your schools and, you know,
getting Hey, I ate some lead paint to as a kid. Yeah.
Proper resources, then they can't thrive. No, no, no, no,
no,
let's we'll have none of that. No. Oh, wow. Yeah, this is this
is very racist.
It's been a while you system and that's what systemic
racism and it's to this day, they're still doing this shit in
Austin. And it's yeah, sometimes it's black people. Sometimes
it's homeless people. It's still the same. It's the same
thinking.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly. And we can, like I said, civilize them.
We know we got there to concentrate. But when you have
people run away, that's the part I don't understand you. And
we'll get there. But let's just get to, um, what the tenements
were like at the time, in Chicago.
Most of the adults who live in the tenement on South Ellis
Avenue were born in rural areas of the South, they came to
Chicago looking for a better way of life. They came to the south
side of the city, because they found that this was a place
where negros were permitted to live. They came here without
much education or sophistication in the ways of the city. They
came here poor, about all that they brought with them, where
their hopes and their dreams, Bill staples, and his wife
Gloria came from Alabama.
Gotta dream you know, everybody have a dream, and you dream of
going in a place to make good to make it better for my family,
and better education for my kids. These are the prime
reasons I came up.
Now is this is this true? This is the tenements where all the
work, quote unquote, poor black people from the South.
Yes. So what you had was you had three, um, three mass movements
of black people over maybe a 40 year period. From the south to
the north, I think beginning in 1914. I want to I want to say
because I did a video on this a long time ago, so I'm worn out
memory here, but it was called the great migration. So what
happened was the change in agriculture in the south and
then also the rise and racial tensions that were inflamed,
drove a lot of people black people out of the south and into
the north cities like Detroit, Chicago, um,
I mean, wasn't it the North that really freed everybody and we
have compassion for you slaves?
Yes, that's that was that's the myth. And like I said, I did a
video on this. And the north. And this is just a sidebar.
Everybody knows the story about Emmett Till, right? I mean, he
was killed and cotton fan was put around his neck. He was
thrown into the river for Western and a white woman,
right? Yeah. Everybody knows that narrative. That's the
South. We're in the north. Nobody talks about, like black
kid that was stoned to death on a segregated beach in Chicago.
He actually floated all his wrath from the colored section
to the white section. And white people threw stones at him in
the water, and he drowned. But that's just go to show you.
That's not. Let's keep that under a nice little box. Yes,
you're better than that. Yeah.
All right. So I'm just going to show you that. But yes, we had a
lot of people moving for the South. And they didn't find the
opportunities that they were looking for. Because what
happened is that they will move to the slums. You were separated
from your family with a total different change in culture,
because you have people from the South, they have a background
and strong family structure and units. And you're segregated and
you're isolated in these tenements. So this just gives
you a perspective of what was going on at Chicago at the time
and
add a little no man in the house to it, and you got a beautiful
situation.
Well, that was the thing about everything in this story of the
tenements. This is a CBS News special for 1967. It was on like
two black fathers out at seven families in that ah, and it was
really like a rundown. Multiplex is what you want to call it. We
I was like only two of the families and this was one of the
fathers. And you know, and these guys, they weren't hard. I mean,
they didn't have a lot of education, but they weren't
hard. And they moved their families. Oh, I wish I'm not
saying that. But we always the people that should be fighting
for us run. And they try to force their way into white
society or the liberal mindset that tries to force them into
white society. There you go. So at the Obama Foundation, Obama
con, they also had another guest, Miss Ava DuVernay. And
she had a very interesting take on media,
film lover. And for me, it really goes beyond the idea of
cinema, it goes into the idea of the image. You know, there's a
reason why we use the term your mind's eye, you know, we think
and remember in images in pictures, right. And so film is
just an artificial rendering of what's actually inside here. You
know, I mean, it's a little different than music, it's a
little different than, you know, then then even sculpture, you're
we're recreating life in cinema. we're recreating stories that
you remember things that you're tapping into things that really
seep into your DNA and become a part of you. And so, you know,
the power of images has been used to distort and
malnourished, but it also can be used to, to nourish and to grow
us. And so that's what I'm looking for whenever I start a
project.
Well, okay, hard to argue that, that takes place, but I would
add some propaganda and other things into it. When it comes to
well.
Yeah, that's what is used for propaganda, and actually say, is
used to
recreate, recreate, like,
she said, corrupt? She said, Oh, yes, you nourished it. But you
know, and this is the caricature that that was spoke of. A lot of
the images that we see of quote unquote, black people are
negative, but who signs up to play those roles? Nice. I mean,
and we would just stop saying, I'm not going to play a robber
in law and order law and order a murder or, you know, um, those
kinds of roles, stereotypical roles. Yeah, the stereotypical
roles but we it's people this always willing to take that. So
the reason why I brought this clip up is this white flight.
Black people moving into white spaces, was a popular theme of a
very popular play turn movie called A Raisin in the Sun.
And Lorraine Hansberry is Raisin in the Sun. A younger family of
five lives in a tiny dark infested apartment on Chicago's
South Side, sometime between 1945 and the present of 1950.
Denine the whole family eagerly awaits a $10,000 life insurance
check for the work related death of big Walter Mama's husband and
the family's patriarch Walter Lee younger, a dissatisfied
chauffeur in his mid 30s wants to invest in a liquor store. In
the introduction, he mentioned news of another bombing, and he
talks finances with his wife Ruth, Ruth and beneatha Walters
younger sister both recognize mama as the one in charge of the
insurance money. As the rising action begins, Walter tries to
convince her to finance his investment, but Mom was against
selling liquor. She wants to support beneath his plan to
attend medical school. She's also thinking about buying a
house. The family encourages beneath it to pursue her wealthy
suitor George Murchison, but beneath that find some shallow
another suitor Nigerian classmate, Joseph a soggy helps
Bonita explore her African heritage. The check arrives and
Ruth reveals she's pregnant with an unplanned child. To Mama's
dismay, Ruth has scheduled an abortion. In the climax, Mama
uses part of the settlement money to make a down payment on
a house. Ruth is at first overjoyed, but then shocked to
learn the houses in Clyburn Park, a white neighborhood.
Is this a play that is that you're exposed to growing up?
Oh, yes. So, so much so that my father actually played in a
community at the community art center. He played Walter in his
play. Okay. So, um, um, they read done it, they, they ridden
it, I think three times. The latest being with Puff Daddy
playing Walter.
Oh, man, this is on Netflix. I can just watch this after the
show.
It should be on Netflix. I know. It's on YouTube. So I wanted to
find out find it. Yeah. But the original one has it he said in
the party a in it. So it was it was a very big deal. Um, it won
the C akoni. One award.
A Choni. a Tony Award.
It won a game actually. Let's see I have my notes. Yeah, it
was award winning play. It was based off Mikey and he uses a
famous poem poem a dream differed from the line does a
what happens to a dream deferred? Does it dry it like A
Raisin in the Sun? So that's it came from that era. Ms. Lorraine
Hansberry, the one that wrote this play. She has a history
with actually dealing with try to integrate into white
communities. She was actually part of the Supreme Court case.
Hansberry versus Lee and this is where the Hansberry family they,
um, they were struggling to move into the Washington Park
subdivision and Chicago. So all of this is connected in a way.
This is really like the one of the driving forces to say, oh,
yeah, we can move into these communities. And let's just go
to clip to
Mrs. Johnson. The neighbor stops by excited for the youngers
move, but also scared of the violence the likely face from
Chicago is white folks. Walter stops going to work and he
drinks. When mama ceases deterioration, she gives him
control over the remainder of the money. She tells him to put
some aside for beneath his education and to decide himself
what to do with the rest. We see an immediate change in Walter
and Ruth decides to keep her baby while the youngers
excitedly pack. Carl Lindner visits a white representative of
the Clyburn Park welcoming committee in the falling action,
and uncomfortable but polite Lindner says he wants to start a
dialogue. But it's soon clear the neighborhood residents want
to buy back the House to prevent integration. Walter Ruth and
beneatha angrily reject the offer and ask Lindner to leave
soon after Walters fellow investor Bobo reports that
Willie Harris has skipped town with their investment money.
Walters as well as beneath a share. And raged mama begins to
beat Walter. The family now in need of cash consider staying in
the apartment. And upbeat hopeful a soggy debates the
possibility of progress with beneatha A saga I asked her to
move with him to Africa to work with him to help improve the
lives of his people. at his lowest, Walter calls Carl
Lindner to accept the buyout beneath us ready to disown her
brother, but mama and assists. Walter needs their love now more
than ever. In the resolution, Walter instead tells Lindner
they plan to move into the house after all, as movers load the
truck, bonita says she's thinking about going to Africa.
Mama tells Ruth that Walters finally come into his manhood
with hope, as well as dark uncertainty about integration.
The play closes with the youngers vacating their
apartment and going to their new house
so, so this is a comedy depressing, it's
a, it's a mellow drama. Yeah. You have these pieces of, quote
unquote, art. Every generation spoke of a Color Purple, that
was in the 80s that shapes and molds black culture. And a
certain way this came out this play was in 19, or late 1950s.
This movie was in 1961. And like I said, this was a play that was
done. I was had to be six, seven years old. And I think 86 My dad
played the role of Walter and, and the communities that are in
play. So it had real sticking power. And it had real cultural
impact of black people not wanting to build up their own
communities now. The talented 10th the top, you know,
achievers move out. And that's how you get the ghetto. As
people say, I said it that way, but
I like how you saw that. Yeah, the ghetto the ghetto.
Yeah, that's, that's how you get it? Because it's like, okay. No
Child Left. What was it? No Child Left Behind? If you're a
top performer, we move you to a good school. Affirmative action.
Affirmative action. Yeah, so it's like, and then you self
segregate yourself? Yes, I guess segregated from your own calm
basically.
Let me let me to the point. The point you make here is how
influential media and a play is media. A book is media how
influential artistic culture is. And of course, it's the same for
for white people. There's a lot of influence from artistic
culture. But it sounds like and I can't wait, I can't wait to
see A Raisin in the Sun. It sounds like there's a lot of
similarities with the modern day version, which I mentioned it
before would be the Jefferson's. I mean, this was the what I grew
up watching.
Yeah, exactly. I mean,
it's not exactly the same, but it's similar similar as and
we're moving on up to the east side. You know, George Jefferson
has got a big big ass chip on his shoulder. You know, it's
kind of it's a version of that.
I think the time is the only thing that would be different.
And because these people were forced themselves into
environments where they were not wanted. And that's what I can't
say I I fully understand if I didn't live it. But why would
you want to force yourself to somewhere where you know, you're
not wanting, you're going to be faced with violence and hate.
From a white perspective, I'm going to give you this because
this is how I was taught. From a white perspective. I was taught
to view someone who did that as heroic and brave and righteous.
That makes sense. I can understand how people can look
at that. But
I'm just telling you that's that's my my background in this
particular store, not how I feel today. But how I was brought up
the poor I can't understand I want to exam stick on this point
too long, but and this is what perplex a lot of us. Do you hate
being around your own that much will go into harm's way just for
a better schools. I mean, it's just like when you see the line,
and it's like, this is this common scene and civil rights.
Videos of a little girl walking in the white people yelling on
both sides. You're saying, display? Well, bloodlust? Yes.
would use this gesture children to that over instead of
improving your own community. That's the part I can't
understand. But I guess I don't want to belabor that point too
much, but even on a set of raising their son, there was
trouble.
In the play. The story was told from the mother's perspective
which party I disagreed with from the start his character
makes a few decisions which he felt could show a black man in a
negative light if the audience couldn't understand where he was
coming from, why to voice his opinion, and this led to a clash
between him and Claudia McNeil. We argued constantly, he later
said, claiming that MacNeill hated him.
Yeah, well, Sidney Poitier was a smart man. He had a lot to say.
And may understand, only a black man can understand how things
are going to be viewed. But as I've said, on previous shows,
where the sacrificial lamb, it's like, yeah, they get shot dead
in the street. But then when people make protests, they talk
about intersectionality. And all these other topics. It's like
no, or they will, like I said, go back to Color Purple, they'll
paint the black male as the oppressor or the problem. And I
think Sidney Poitier picked up on this, that they actually
treated Walter as a child, really, I mean, I mean, because
if you listen to the previous clip, they say, oh, yeah, he
finally came to his man. Yeah, he was a 30 year old man. Right.
Right. Right. So,
so so your, your question is, and of course, you know, I was
alive back then. But you know, the 67 not not much before that
is what was going on. What was it? I mean, I guess you're
saying is it must have been really bad in the in the get
toe?
Well, I will say this, and I have to disclose this one piece
of information. Miss Hansberry was close with Paul Robeson and
WB Dubois of the NAACP, that was ran by the FBI agent spin guard.
It's propaganda.
It's totally it's totally propaganda.
Yes. Well, you start tracing these threads back. And as the
show as people, more people, let's listen to the show.
Sometimes go back and listen to old shows. Because then you'll
get context of what we're saying. Now. These things don't
have to happen in a vacuum.
No. And I just got it's just, it's as if and uh, maybe I'm
jumping ahead. So stop me before I kill again. But you and I have
both been propagandized by a big media machine that in all
likelihood was in collusion. And had this grand idea and, and I
got propagandize, you got propagandize and it really
created a bunch of shit
out of everything. And then the was it the last show where we
talked about how the civil rights movement or two shows ago
I'll lose track, but how the civil rights movement was
televised in a way? Oh,
yeah, that didn't even didn't even Claudette didn't even show
the real first person who sat in the front of the bus. I mean,
all of this stuff was completely manipulated, or selectively
presented.
Yes. So these memes and thought patterns are shaped through MIDI
and fed to people that are looking for themselves on the
screen. We all we all do that. That's why we have different
genres of music. That's why we have different television shows
it because we want to see somebody that we can identify
with. One of those shows being good times, and we will see one
meme that was pushed in this next clip on Good Times.
Never walked away from a test before. Tell us what's really
bothering you,
Mama. They don't know it. But the IQ exam was nothing but a
white racist test.
Michael How could it be a white racist test? All schoolchildren
take it of all colors.
Yeah, but this one was given by the white people made up by
white people and even graded by white people. It doesn't tell
you how smart you are just a white you ah, that's facts.
Questions on a test like this, complete the following phrase,
cup n and you have to choose from four words wall sauce, a
table a window. You know, my friend Eddie put down a cup and
table because in this house, they don't have no sauces to put
onto the cup.
When I was a kid when I have no sauces to put on the table
and get this question, a mother father until children live in a
five bedroom residence. The mother and father sleep in one
bedroom and each of the two children has a room to himself.
How many guests bedrooms are there left? Now how many kids in
the ghetto even know what a guest bedroom?
Yeah
I just moved to the Netherlands so I'd never really saw a good
times. Of course I've seen some this is very Very, very telling,
especially knowing who produced all this.
Well, we're gonna get there for the people that this is your
first time listening. Um, but John Amos, this is a throwback
clip. And similar to city of Sydney party a when he brought
up negative images of how black people were being shown on these
TV shows, or as this didn't city, poor daysailer status,
erasing the sun, they were met with a pushback,
the differences we had on that show and we had a number of
differences, as evidenced by my early departure from the show
was I felt that with two other younger children, one of whom
had to aspire who aspired to become a Supreme Court justice,
that would be Raph Carter, or Michael and the other.
Bernadette Stannis I think she aspired to become a surgeon. And
the differences I had with the producers of the show was that I
felt too much emphasis was being put on JJ and his Chicken Hat
and saying dynamite every third page, when just as much emphasis
and mileage could have been gotten out of my other two
children in common and jokes, and, you know, humor that could
have come out of that. But I wasn't the most diplomatic guy,
like I said, In those days, and they got tired of having their
lives threatened over jokes. So they said to tell you what, why
don't we kill him off, and we'll get on with it. We'll get on
with our lives. Life's too short. So that taught me a
lesson that I wasn't as important as I thought I was, to
the show, or to Norman Lear's plans. And he was not about to
have a disruptive effect, a disruptive factor.
And I do want to mention, this is a throwback clip. This is one
of the few podcasts that I would say it's worth going back and
listening to every single one we've done, because they do kind
of build on each other. And it just every one is worth it. By
itself, though, that aside. Thank you, Norman Lear still
active today. Envy, envy. Me meme that they pushed in the
previous clip of the good times is standardized test. Yep.
Cautiously bias. Yeah. And that hat thing has legs. We've heard
it even up until when I got ready to take the LSAT that the
LSAT was culturally bias. And before we play the next clip, I
heard you chuckle at Chicken Hat. Yeah. And before we did,
when we did the lat that show you didn't show cool. So that
goes to show you people when you listen to the older shows, yeah,
you understand? Yeah, you pick up stuff. Why that was a problem
to James Amos. Yeah, I mean, excuse me, John Amos. But as I
said before, even me growing up. When I was growing up, the LSAT
was seen as a racist or biased test. And now the LSAT has done
things to overcome that.
And the College Board will start assigning an adversity score to
all students taking the PSAT to capture their social and
economic background. It's meant to help admissions officers
account for any disadvantage stemming from those factors. The
score is calculated using 15 factors including the crime rate
and poverty, poverty levels from the student's neighborhood. The
formula does not consider race colleges will see the scores
when reviewing applications. 150 institutions are expected to use
this test this fall. David Coleman is the CEO of the
College Board. He is here to discuss the organization's new
approach and its response to the massive college admissions
scandal. Good morning. Good morning. Good to see you. So
you've probably seen this one critic in the New York Times
said, if the LSAT needed a sophisticated, conventional or
contextual framework to make it valid, then that's a sign that
it's not a good test. So why did the college board decide to
create the adversity test?
What the LSAT is, is a valid measure of your achievement?
What have you learned in reading and math? How ready are you for
college? But what it doesn't measure alone is it doesn't
measure what you've overcome the situation that you achieve that
and what we can do with this context data. You see how
resourceful you are? Have you done more with less. So to be
clear, it's not really a personalized adversity score.
It's the general context of your school and neighborhood. And
what it's really aiming to do is highlight those resourceful
students. Let me give you an example. A college that we
partnered with just letting a young woman from Mississippi,
she happens to be a rural white young woman in a very small
school, and her SATs score was pretty much average with the
other applicants. But what they found when they looked at it in
context is it was 400 points higher than any other kid scored
at her school. The neighborhood either world she lived in was
rife with poverty. It's a small school without a lot of advanced
opportunities, but she made the most of it. So we're saying the
SATs shows you achievement. But what it can't show alone. Is
your resourcefulness, doing more with less
You know, whenever I hear someone talking like this, it
sounds to me like they're just an incredible douchebag. Man,
cheese, so that guy could run for any political office as a
Democrat, right there.
So the adversity score. So if you get a, say a 1200, and you
come from a decent background, and another person comes from a
poor neighborhood with high crime, and they get a 1200,
they're graded on a curve. Right? How does that help? I
don't understand how that helps. What that does is feed into the
victimization mentality. Exactly.
Yeah, so I'm so sorry, your will give you a chance.
And yeah, the thought process is, I'm sure lining good
intentions. But when you get to that school, they'll be like,
oh, what you made on the SATs? Oh, yeah, I got a 1200. And the
average score, there's like a 15. I don't know what the scores
are now. But they say the average score is 15 1600. What
are you doing here? You don't belong, right. So you're
creating an environment for that person? To be ostracize, instead
of taking the data and saying, okay, these communities are the
poor communities with high crime. Let's fix the source of
the problem. Oh, no, no, no. Take the cream, the cream
of the crop. Just oops, you just skim that off? Here we go. Come
here.
Yep. So that means the only people that are allowed to make
it out of those poor crime ridden communities audit.
Academic elite? Yes. Now, who's the real elitist? Who's the
real? I mean, who I mean, that's a bigoted mindset. They'll say,
Oh, well, you can't make their threshold. So you You're doing
too poor schools? This is the flip side of that coin of
victimization mentality, the people that support this thought
process.
And that oh, well, you said something important. Important,
is I think that, you know, the people who are speaking about
this, and who put these programs in place, sadly, I think a lot
of them were of good heart. They meant well, but you know, what
bugs me and I'm not going to say it anymore, is that I see the
same thing happening. And we have the results, historical
data to show that this is just not the way to do it. So that's
really weird. It's like, you know, that it's the definition
of insanity.
Okay, let me Alright, so I'm gonna give you my perspective on
why I think this deadly combination of good intentions
from the good hearted liberal people. And then you have the
elite of the sad group. It works for them, because it's like, oh,
yeah, help us. And they will, you know, will help the people
down there. Oh, definitely. We, we want to trickle down, trickle
down.
Yeah, no, I told you. Yeah, no, yes. I completely understand
what you're saying.
So it's trickle down. And it's like the good news. And that's
why I was saying before, if you get the middleman out of the
way. That's why people wonder why oh, why he's focused so much
energy on the Boulais, quote, unquote, Boulais, or the black
elite, because they are behind the shade on the jar. They're
running the show. They are the lid on the jar, and they
function that they're the gatekeeper or whatever you want
to call. Yeah, it's fine. The only way you make it out is
through us through us through us and you had to be exceptional.
That's the only way if you're exceptional edge, putting a ball
through the hall or running a ball or dancing or singing or
intelligence or whatever your kids get into the club. If not
screw you stay down there. You will be the victim that will
lobby off of it's the same thing with homeless. We don't want to
fix the homeless problem. We got to million dollar billion dollar
scheme fix on going here. We don't want to fix global
warming. We got a billion dollar scheme going here. It's like we
need the problem.
Per Se problem reaction solution.
Yes. So I'm Gail from the show. Um, she chimes in about the sa
t. Yeah. So
then that's, that's the point you're trying to make I hear is
that it's really about putting it all in context, it's calling
it the adversity score. Some people will say it should be
called the privilege score.
Yeah, I think calling the score is kind of a mistake, if you
don't mind, it's really a general background. So every kid
in the same school or same neighborhood gets the same
background information, we use no personal data,
don't colleges have access to that information, already have
some data. And you're right, this is really making what
colleges already do a lot better. We've long agreed in
American education, that we should recognize students who
have defied the odds to accomplish our mistakes. And so
they try to use school profiles, they try to use a jumble of
evidence, and all we're doing is providing that in a more fair
way. So schools that might not have as much resources to make
their profile and might not be as well known to admissions
officers can be seen in the same light so that they can witness
the neighborhood in which students grow up. And really all
this is about is there is so much more talent than we can see
than by using scores alone. You know,
David, you say it's a valid measure of achievement, a lot of
people would think and these are people who would probably not
have adversity that could count against them. They think it's a
valid measure of your ability to cram for an idiosyncratic test.
And so they get their kids into the, you know, various study
programs, people are thumbing through books going crazy. What
about that criticism of the SAP,
it's a pretty old fashioned picture of the old sap in 2014.
We revised the test and partnered with Khan Academy to
make the best of test preparation free for the world.
Now, 30 seconds after taking the exam like the PSAT, you get a
personalized study plan for free, and you practice just what
you need to get better at and reading and math. This is not a
mysterious test to test a few core math skills use over and
over again, and your ability to read with confidence. Ooh, man,
what a program. So how is the test racist? When the man just
said it takes a test, core math, right? And your confidence in
reading, core math and your competence and reading. But when
you have things like what we saw with the IQ test, and these
standardized tests are culturally biased, they grow
legs, they evolve over time, then it becomes SSA T is racist.
Now, Adam, I want to I want to ask you something.
X away my friend, you x all the hell you want my brother.
What would be the one subject of education that you would think
is universal? Well, there can only
be one truth and the only truth I've been taught is in numbers,
mathematics is truth. One is one, zero is zero. And that's
it. There's just there's just truth in mathematics.
No, math is racist. The opposite of Donald Trump is an Asian man
who likes math.
Andrew Yang may want to rethink that catchphrase, because
apparently, math is racist. Seattle's public schools are
considering a proposal that would mix social justice in with
math, including studying how math has been appropriated by
Western culture, and that math itself is racist. And Alessia
Parson is a sociologist and educator, who agrees with the
premise of the proposal, and joins me now. All right, so And
let me let me just see where I'm confused. So you understand
what's going on? I am bad at math. And if math is racist, and
I'm also white, does that make me too dumb to be racist? Or
not? Racist enough to be good at math?
Not racist enough. Jesse. That's such a long conversation. First
of all, remember Dr. Alessio Parson Yes. So please don't
refer to me by an but I appreciate it.
Okay, so apologize.
Oh, whoa, well back off. Okay, so when is she blocked this?
This doctor?
No. Okay,
give me even better.
What's wrong with her? Okay, so my math is racist. Yeah, I
still don't know. I mean, hopefully I'll learn I'd love to
understand.
And before we get into clip to just another personal my father,
he would not tolerate a bad grades and math. Because he
would say the one thing you can say language or you know, you
can make these cases or, you know, context language and it
can be subjective. But um, math is pure. You said it yourself.
One plus is plus one plus one is two, whether in China or India,
wherever you have one egg you give a person another egg. They
have two eggs
seems large, but
math is racist to
tell me why math is racist doctor?
Yes. So you it's funny on November 6 2016, I was at a
conference on statistics. And I raised my hand and I was like,
Are you telling me statistics are racist? And that was what,
almost three years ago? And I was really confused when I asked
the question and spent years reading about many different
things. Have you Jesse red Native Son, which I gave you
last time we met.
I read it in high school, but I have not reread it since the
last time you gave it to me. But what does that have to do with
is math racist?
So the critical race theory and is a framework for understanding
the world that helps us understand that this entire
country is racist, right? We have a white supremacist pasts,
racial caste system in the United States.
For once, right, are you saying that all white people in America
are racist?
Yeah, I am, too. Sometimes it happens. We were socialized.
Right? The process of socialization and learning about
social norms.
So you're, you're a racist.
Occasionally it happens. I usually apologize it when I
realized
that how are you a racist? What do you think makes you superior?
Josie, that question doesn't make sense.
Well, isn't racism the belief that one race is inherently
superior than another race and then you discriminate against
other races?
That is a piece of racism. But you get the definition that's
really old. Oh, language evolves over time. Race and white
supremacy? What are white race and white supremacy today? Yeah,
okay. They are structures that affect us all. So people do
things that are racist all the time, myself included, because
we don't realize that's happening, like
microaggressions.
Okay. Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense. I'm sorry, I didn't get
the memo. I still go by the Merriam Webster definition of
racism, which I will quote, prejudice discrimination or
antagonism directed against someone every different race
based on the belief that one's own race is superior. Well, now
I understand why everyone's being called a racist. It's
different now. I just can't find the actual definition. But all
right, what
is it? And did you catch the irony here? Because he's very,
very rich. If you didn't, I'll tell you what.
There was a lot going on there. Go ahead. Tell me that I need
a washy saying validates while the sa t language portion will
be racing, by
definition. By definition. New difficult, will
you will you change though debt, the definition of our words at a
whim? Yeah, people don't get the memo. I go into thinking you
mean one thing that I've studied on you change it to mean
something else. I'm out of the loop of what is in vogue.
Mmm hmm. Oh, my God. This is I mean, this is so current for me.
I mean, I just got called out for being a misogynist and a
racist for making fun of the way some in particular, the way some
people talk. Important, I made a joke about I'll still make a
joke about it. Because apparently old white man must
shut the EFF up because language change and you're in the way.
I'm like, Okay, well, let's if that's settled science, like,
you know, there's words change gay used to mean something else,
you know, eventually we all accept it, but it has to go
through a little process. And then we have these crazy things
called dictionaries, which then define it and say, Okay, here's
the new meaning of the word and I'm okay with that. But you
can't just do that and say, You're just you're just old
fashion. That's an old definition. You don't know what
you're talking about. This is an outrage.
And you know what? She coined a new term a boy that occasional
racist. I'm occasionally racist.
I try to be racist on Saturdays. I'm working on Sundays as well.
Oh, it explains well, I hopefully that she can give us a
little better explanation of what racist is because I know
what it's not not. So it's not It doesn't occur when you just
think that you are superior to a different race. It happens
apparently, in other cases,
I'm sure you all know,
how is two plus two equals four? How does that discriminate
against black people or brown people?
One stick plus two stick. Humans were like, Hey, here's a stick.
Here's another. I just did some math, that was not racist. We're
on the same page with that. Okay, one plus one equals two.
Yes. Okay. Humans have then used math and numbers and statistics
and all sorts of ways from counting black and brown bodies
as they made them property and brought them over to these
lands. Much more recently, scholars who said that white
people were more intelligent than people of color. That's
called Scientific racism, the use of statistics and tools to
construct the idea that it's like something deep in our
brains, it's hard to recognize and that's why it requires time
Jesse, I asked you a question. Just because people more than
two years to get here slavery,
does it make counting racist? Do you understand something can be
related to each other, but not a causation? Do you understand
what I mean?
Do you understand what statistics is?
I think I do. I'm not understanding though. If you
understand, that's the point. Doctor, I run, I have to run,
doctor, maybe we could do this again sometime. And you could
explain it
to come to the Democratic debate or Milwaukee next year. Thank
you.
Okay, she's just the Oh, f her hold on a second. Stop this
show. Now you've got me got me all riled up now. Thank God
water said, Wait a minute is counting racist? Thank you. I
was gonna ask about that. So. But here's what she did. She
brought it into the second clip, she did it. She brought in
statistics. And what I've learned about statistics, is
there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. And statistics,
statistics is not just math, it's math based on variables,
and known as the N while the N factor is what I'd call it
interesting in this context, where were you where you have an
n, which is a number that you know, will offset your margin of
error, which is how polling is done. And we know how polling
works, you know, sometimes doesn't work very well at all.
Ergo, the 2016 election. And then it turns out that all she's
here is to do like, Epstein didn't kill himself and yell out
at the end put me on the debate. I want to be there. I'll shut up
for a second that got me riled up mo to em.
Hey, black man. Yeah, one stick plus Tuesday.
Three. And let me now let me count the black man now we're
getting racist.
Not as hard for you to understand what your three
fifths of a brain
Oh my man, man, man, man. So okay,
so this is what I hear. When I hear crap like this. It's like,
why are you talking to me? Like I'm an idiot? Who can't learn
math. Especially talking about basic arithmetic. We're not
talking about when you get into calculus in those days because
you know, there's something totally different but basic math
but no, math is racist. And you can see the the decline and we
went from the IQ score, the IQ test to the LSAT now all the
math is racist. For brown and black man, he can't get his head
around. One place. One stick plus one sit, you got to stick I
mean.
I mean, it's, um, we're laughing but I'm laughing kind of out of
severe sadness that this is going on. This is new. This is
now this is what maybe maybe two months ago. I don't know when
this
Yeah, this is two months ago. This is when we're in the
presence right now. So we went to the past just so everybody
know, along the timeline. We're out of the 60s, we're out of the
70s. Now we're in real time. Um, but this is what happens when
you get a bunch of intellectuals sitting around. You know, just
blowing smoke, for whom by the way, white guilt has been jammed
up their butthole all their life, apparently. Uh huh. Does
that mean and this happens in colleges universities ever
rewear
that's the breeding ground? Yeah, it's the breeding ground
of the god. Well, I wonder what it could be. I wonder why the
colors, color learn and you know,
it must be my fault.
Right. But I will say this is not a white phenomenon because
we have Miss Imani Perry. She's a famous author. Ah, she wrote a
song breve a letter to my son's.
So I'm just gonna read really briefly and then we'll jump into
conversation. And this is in the midst of writing to my son's
there are fingers itching to have a reason to cage or even
slaughter you. Oh, my God. What hate for beauty this world
breeds. They say they are afraid. I do not believe it is
fear. It is bloodlust. People will say I'm being melodramatic
they have. But police kill middle class black children and
adults to not with the same frequency. But class is no
prevention. It is a reduction of the odds at fast as a black
mother when I read about one of those children whose lives have
been snatched at first blush, I think that could have been my
child.
Proof did you take all that in?
Yeah, you might. You know, I'm already kind of full. I don't
know if I can fit anything else in here. Okay, so
Mr. Mani Perry is a black woman. She she works at Princeton. And
she's like I said she the fang author, and she writes this, I
guess a letter to her sons about how there's a blood list that
wants to kill around
every corner that's setting your kids up. That's really that's a
good way to get them Go on, get them on. Good push in life.
Right. So what they do is, yeah, so what they do is they see
these stories on the news. And what she said was, that could
have been one of my children. Oh, we heard somebody say this
before.
Can I just say something? All my life. Yeah. And I would say that
the best period to compare this to is when I was in New Jersey,
and we were in Montclair, very, very elite neighborhood, right
next to East Orange. But whenever my kid was born in
1990, whenever I saw shit on the news, black, white, yellow,
gray, I don't care. I always thought that could be my kid.
But not just if it was a white or a black kid, it was every kid
every kid Holy shit, how can this happen to our kids?
Right. So we've heard this before. With what Mr. President
Obama speaking Oh, Trayvon Martin? Well,
I'm the head of the executive branch. And the Attorney General
reports to me. So I've got to be careful about my statements to
make sure that we're not impairing any investigation
that's taking place right now.
But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what
these parents are going through.
And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I
think every parent in America should be able to understand why
it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of
this, and that everybody pulls together federal, state and
local to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened. So I'm
glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into
it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida
has formed a task force to investigate what's taking place.
I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure
out how does something like this happen. And that means that we
examined the laws and the context for what happened, as
well as the specifics of the incident. But my main message
is, is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a
son, he'd look like Trayvon.
Yeah, he was really good up until that last bit. You know,
every parent's in America all that? Yeah, totally.
Yeah, but if I had a son, he would look like Trayvon. And
we're still waiting on it investigation. That was gonna
say, Do we have any any outcome of that? Finally, I mean, do we
know?
So we see how these means and even in literature. Oh, it could
be my son, Obama. It could be my son. These things they travel,
and this is the talk gone wrong. We've talked about this before.
Of one. Yeah, it's some things out there that we need to be
worried about how you interact with certain people. But when
you trigging traumatize your children. With there's a blood
lust out there that wants to take your life with every
second. You know, that's very harmful. No kids very harmful.
No kidding. So, Miss Imani Perry, she continues on with her
book breeds.
There's this particular sort of motif of black mothers is long
suffering, right? And everything is sacrifice, which in some ways
is true. But then it's also split. How do you educate your
children or the young people in your life to have the kind of
care for you fully as a person that you have for them, because
you want them to be that way with the people in their lives?
Right.
It's interesting, because when you think about the, the
disciplines that we you know, we love and we live in and we we've
studied our way through, and even the sense that the means
toward a kind of stability and authority like stem, as we see.
All of those things are buying into a particular kind of order,
and belief that this will pay off races, this is going to
convince the world of what is right. This is going to make a
stable life for you and keep you safe. Yes. The world we live in
shows us that is not true. True. And what's so beautiful about
this book is that you call on so much that is outside of that
that to me feels undeniably rooted in blackness. Yeah, the
belief in the spirit and the sense of, you know, yes, there
was a way that suffering and love are inextricable. Yes. So
it's it's exciting to me that in addition to being a book that's
really practical and loving, it's also kind of this archival
celebration of the things that come from blackness that we
haven't yet fully categorized.
Absolutely.
Glad to have a black friend who explained to me
I wanted to clip it in there. She said, That's not true. Yeah,
I heard I heard it. I heard it. I heard. I heard you there I
don't know.
But yeah, like, she brought up one point of there's this
suffering of a blast.
Suffering and love go hand in hand.
It's this continuation of, you have to be a victim, you have to
suffer. You know, you have, you know, this is what we do. So
much. So, even when Michelle Obama was in office, she slipped
up and said, She's way I'm gonna let you you want to care. And
guess what she said she would because I didn't finish the
clip. I said, dot dot dot? Well, or you just want to go to
the first thing that comes to my mind is that she would say she
was a victim of something. That's the only thing that came
to mind. I don't know if I'm right.
Alright, let's see what she says.
We're looking at new models of getting farmers markets to, you
know, create buses and drive into communities that are
underserved. So we have to deal with the question of access. And
believe me as a busy single mother, or single as a busy
mother, sometimes, you know, when you got the husband who's
president, it can feel a little single, but he's there. But as a
busy working mom, and before coming to the White House, I was
in that position, you know, as well, working, driving kids to
practice, you know, not having enough time to shop or cook not
having the energy. You know, the resources weren't the issue, but
time and energy is is key.
I of course I remember this. And I should have remembered that
she had said that because we played this clip a lot. Yeah.
And of course, I didn't look at that in any of this context. I
looked at it in the context. What if you're a dude, we had no
other way to look at what she was saying. Then you're not
married, you know what is going on? But actually, and I think I
understand what she was trying to say, you know, when you have
a politician
who but yeah, we want to play the victim card. Yeah, that's
right. That's right.
Mentally, you might all I want. You want to identify as this,
you know, as a single mother, you know, he's Brock's bear.
He's running the country. Yeah. I mean, what do you mean, he's
there? I mean, he's around seriously. Yeah, he's there, you
know,
cigarettes in the back. Yeah. Wow. When
you want to get in on the PD party, you have to identify when
you want to, like say play your victim card. Sometimes it slips
out. And she played her victim card, but Oh, these two, Imani
Perry and Michelle Obama. We're gonna go back into a throwback
clip from Madame Noir. This was the panel black women talking
about the struggle struggles or raising black boys. What do you
think
the hardest thing is to do as a mom? In 2017 parenting? What are
the things you worried about the most raising black children?
That I have boys? I have two boys. Two boys and how do I like
prepare them for that life? Yes, slip flooded the stress and, and
it's a lot of stress that I don't know as a woman, because
we have stressed but we also can navigate circles a little bit
better because a women because we're women, and like I don't
how do I prepare you know for those moments when he comes home
and something has gone right in the street? And he doesn't know
how to deal with it right
or? Yeah. So now you see that mindset is being set in elite
circles.
I can't believe that you're even doing a podcast with me. How
come you're not dead in the street? I mean, it's obvious
your future just how did this change? This is not possible.
Amen. I was lucky. It's math, bro. The blood? I mean, he's
still out there. In the blood lessons go hunt me down. I mean,
so I mean,
it's a great title for a movie bloodlust.
So, you see the mindset. And the second part is a two part of
that. From the madam Noir. They speak on fear. Okay, it's hard
to let them be free. When we're fearful. Right? Yeah. Because
you know, because my best friend she said like that boy be free.
Yeah, he wants take off his shoes. I don't think it's hard
like for them to be free. Like we're a little fearful and I
think that's the that's the tension of like, I want them to
grow. I want them to explore and try stuff out. But like I'm I'm
a little scared.
That hard for them to be free. Yep, that says that all right
there what it what it Kanye say. Free, man. Free man talk him.
Yep. Once you break out of that victim mentality and say, You
know what? I'm gonna do what I'm going to do. wherever it lands
it lands. And you know, I'm I said something on the very first
podcast we did. When I said Trump one. He let Black men nuts
dropped. Oh, yeah. You laugh.
Yeah. Well, I laughed out of understanding I think
I know I know. I know. But what I'm saying is that was that
freedom is like hmm, like I mean,
here's a dude who's just going up there and saying whatever
comes to his mind whatever.
Oh, a little freer because it you know it it even Kanye said
that himself I don't keep harping about it. But he's a
very interesting on,
you know, subjects was so disappointing. I mean, I left
after when I was in Europe, but I saw a few new shows. And, and
they all just look at no one's really listening. They just look
at Kanye and go he's not I mean, exactly what he said what
happened, you know, he's nuts. He's got mental issues. He's
clearly oh my god, now he's into Jesus. Oh, no. Now this guy's
off the rails. Instead of just listening to what the guy's been
saying. You know, the propaganda from all sides Fox the worst I
might add. I'm looking at you five. They're just sitting there
like laughing like he's a nut job where the man I mean, free
man talking is a very powerful statement. You know? It was
powerful. Okay, I digressing. I got time on my hands. Maybe
that's it. I am old. I got time to listen to people.
But you wear skinny jeans.
wear skinny jeans.
Yeah. So it means like, that's what they took away from him. So
we understand the fear.
By the way, we see no, no one no one no one understood that
either. Very few people. You got to know the South Park and you
got you got a little bit of cultural background. But okay,
yeah, exactly.
So now we're seeing the loop. It starts in wherever the media,
whether it's a book, it's a movie, it feeds down into the
pop culture, and then it becomes part of the mindset. Um, so I
just had this little clip final clip from the Imani Perry
interview. And it's just hilarious. I want
to hear some of your beautiful language okay, that okay. And
when you hear it in your voice, okay, okay. I want you to go to
the bottom of 66 Yes, I am asking you to do something
difficult.
Oh, yes. Oh, on the bottom of 66 You were waiting for me to not
know what the hell that was all about. The bottom of Hold on a
second. tricking me mow the lawn. Let me just do it again.
I'm not googling anything. I'm just listening. I
want to hear some of your beautiful language. Okay, is
that okay? I want to hear it in your voice. Okay. Okay. I want
you to get to the bottom of 66 Yes, I am asking you to do
something difficult.
Oh yes. Okay, the only here's the only sixes I know. Route 66
That's one you got three sixes as Veals above the devil but she
said the bottom is 66 I have no clue what that's about is
nothing is the page number. Fucker I'm like coded messages.
What's going on? How come I don't know this reference?
noseless the six racist There you go. I'm racist.
Did you hear? Did you hear how they were talking to each other?
I want you to do something in your voice. Yeah.
These are probably two career man. I couldn't let that will go
past because he's like, What are y'all talking about?
Oh, your voice you know yours that that unique voice that is
yours in a spot. But from now on, this is our code mo whenever
you and I say to each other bottom is 66 Man All right.
Gotcha. Gotcha. We know what's going on do we like to
spiritually theists connecting dots like where am I to stop
you? Do you even know I was gonna do that. Well, you
know, I did I thought she was gonna comment on
I was but then I heard the bottom of 66 like that shit.
That's some black shit. I don't know, man. What's going on?
Okay. All right. All
right. So with this all being about the Obamas yeah, I've
never really discussed who he was. Oh, what he was. So we have
Mr. Judge Joe Brown. Are you familiar with Mr. Judge Joe
Brown?
No, I know a lot of Joe browns in history but not Mr. Judge.
Judge
Joe Brown was the black judge from Texas that was all my the
Judge Judy type show. Okay, so I figured you know tell it like
this. He was like yeah, it was
brown. Okay, got it. Yeah,
right. Right. So he once you get to a certain age, the truth you
just don't care about it. You're just gonna say what you gotta
say hell yeah. So he breaks down who Barry really is, as anybody
black ever gone and checked out who it is. They went through
school is Barry Soetoro, his stepfather and adoptive father,
low low lol Soetoro. That is one of the 20 richest men on the
planet Earth. Obama is beneficiary of a trust fund.
Along with his two half siblings. He is probably the
richest man to ever occupy the White House. Lolo Soetoro was a
major and Indonesian army and a contractor with the CIA. What
daddy did was run death squads for the Indonesian government.
He was an executive vice president for Standard Oil and
when he decided to set up his own company in Indonesia, where
possibly the world's largest oil reserves located I imagine he
used his position of having an active death squad it is
proposal to facilitate some of his business deals. And now,
interestingly enough, there are documented moments between
George Herbert Walker Bush, who was in the CIA at the time and
Lolo Soetoro surgeon arraign, who mentioned they were frequent
golf partners. And Lolo Soetoro used Goldman Sachs as its as his
American for this year for financial banking institutions.
Okay, so this is new. So this Otero name and Indonesian all of
that is very familiar to me what I never have heard and then
while that was running, I was consulting the book of
knowledge. There's no mention of this of this great wealth, of
course, that's been scrubbed. The CIA connection we had long
time ago. We've always known that Obama was tied at the hip
to Brennan, the director of CIA, but this that he's actually
probably want that he's a trust fund baby. Yes, that is insane.
But he's this poor black kid from the Southside of Chicago.
Well, no, we know he's not. But that's the that's just been
scrubbed from history. I mean, we Yeah. And by the way,
bringing that up most racist thing you can do? Of course it
is. Yeah.
That was a that was the protective thing. No, no, no,
don't look at his background. Um, so nobody ever looked at and
like said he didn't write a reason why I bring this up is he
used the victimization.
Cloak total, totally, totally,
to blend in. Um, so what we're gonna do is, I mean, from that
clip, we're gonna go down and get into the American story of
Obama, on Netflix.
You guys could do whatever you want. Why did you decide to do
what you're doing
one way of looking at what we've both been doing for the last 20
years. Maybe most of our
careers once we left law was to tell stories. You're good Mo. We
tell stories and we turn to tell fables wicked on the mic and on
the turntables.
So that's what they do.
They tell stories tell stories, stories.
You know, they get up there she tell her story about white
guilt. Now we have to ask, what was what was the reason? Because
he were set herself, you know, um, wow, why would you bring up
white guilt? Jackson, part one.
This is the future. Yeah, we were talking about this in the
car right over.
Yeah. This is been in, in, in our family. And growing up. This
has been an underutilized Park, for those of you who don't know,
Jackson Park is, is was for us. And we lived maybe a mile from
it. And I tell you, the old there was they have a golf
course there.
Which means you have to golf you have to
golf. I mean, you couldn't just walk around on the golf course.
But this is one of the parks like the parks, we talked about
that we lived near that people just didn't congregate that
there wasn't like an outdoor access where you did stuff in
this park
on a regular base on a regular basis. It wasn't
that close. It was not a place that was the closest to you.
It wasn't it was it was it was the closest big big park, you
know, like Washington Park and yeah, Douglas park park. Those
are big parks where people come and they congregate and they
have resources thrown in to do stuff. This was one of those
parks that had a lot of real estate, but there wasn't a whole
lot going on unless you golf.
Okay, in the context of Jackson Park.
Jackson bought too
well there and there's so there's power in the selection
of Jackson Park. You know, this, you know, just like Barack and I
don't do things, incidentally. I mean, there's a strategy, you
know, Brock's presidential library could have been anywhere
in the world. Because there's so many people who feel like he is
their president, all over the world. Right. So, you know, New
York wanted it. Hawaii wants it, you know, because it's also an
economic engine, because it will be a visited presidential
library because it's going to be alive. There's going to be it's
a first. So we had to think where do we put this resource
because it will be a resource. But what better place to put it
than in our backyard? You know, Jackson Park is like that
juxtaposition of everything in our lives.
Except we never went to visit it
now do you get it? Yeah,
no, I got it. I got it's, it's kind of disheartening when you
when you rip it open like that Mo.
White folks is saved to come on back. Yep. To Jackson Park.
We're going to build a library. It's gonna be a nice community.
Yeah, gentrification. Yep, that's exactly what it is. The
whole set like I said that we tell stories. She set this whole
thing up about white guilt and white flight. And this pale,
there it is, and there is your payoff.
sick man. Now
do you have other people in your life where you can talk to this
to talk to about this? My aunt
I mean, yeah, no, actually, actually we we claim together.
It's like a unknown. It's like a sixth sense. Uh huh. Oh, hey,
hey, once you draw is that was that dance? Is that dance? You
got to feel it out.
You got to feel it out. Yeah. And then once once you drop the
old Hey, bottom bottom is 66 then you're on Ah, gotcha. I
gotcha. Yes. Well, that's. Well, I mean, that's no different, I
guess then. A lot of people who support or voted for Trump. I
think there's a lot of the same thing goes on a dance and
sussing around you know, it's like with my neighbor, you know,
it's cuz, you know, agenda looks at all kinds of stuff. We say
many things that are unpopular for different groups. And the
first thing I'm trying to suss out is hey, man, are you cool?
Are you like gonna be rabid? If I even say anything positive
about the Trump? It's a dance. So it's kind of like that, I
guess.
And that's exactly why the No, agenda meetups are so important.
are so important. Yeah. Because you don't have to do that dance.
Yeah, um, yeah, well, that's exactly what it is like, is it
cool? You know? And you throw little feelers out there. It's
like, so what about this? You see people's reaction? Alright,
man of relief, where you like, oh, you you're traveling
brother.
I got that one. I'm happy we can laugh about it. But it's really
quite sad that you have now laid out expertly. Once again, you
have laid out. Yeah, everything is the same. It's just, it's
just now we have more algorithms to amplify all the bullcrap. And
of course, people, I always, I look for the good and
everything. And I think that deep down inside people know
things are wrong. And I think this is where this social media
illness comes from, of people yelling at each other, and just
going, going nuts and just completely off the rails. And
really, at the core of all of it is this unpublished memo about
the redefinition of racism, if only I had known. If only I
could find the approved version, it would be so much better for
us. And now I know why everyone's called a racist
because it means something else. And this whole thing is, and
then yeah, it totally feeds into the victimization. Which you my
friend, you shows 00 victimization. You've never
shown any of that
to me. I refuse to be not free course.
Of course you are. You are free man podcasts and what's going on
here?
Free man by free man podcast, and hopefully our podcast threes
to a handful of people each episode. That's that's the
that's the goal here and let us
know. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you want to know, I mean,
people email this tweets and stuff. And, and I see I see the
responses. I enjoy all of it. And remember what I said at the
beginning, is there's there's, there's value in this for me, I
sit here and I enjoy every single show. From beginning to
end. It's just it's fantastic to do this. And I'm pretty sure Moe
enjoys it too. And, you know, we'd love to see your
appreciation for that. Whatever value this had to you. Either go
out and be a free man talking or support us or both even better.
Mo fund me.com mo e fund me.com. Mo, thank you so much. Once
again, a fabulous, fabulous piece of art we have put here
this should be in the Smithsonian. This particular
episode is Smithsonian worthy I tell you,
as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will
reveal itself. And we'll
be back next week with another edition of moe facts with Adam
curry. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for your
time and your attention. We enjoy hope you did do until next
time. Bye bye. of love in you you I woke up this morning The
lady beside me oh I love you babe love you so much new baby
when I was walking on the streets you pass Oh my heart
skips a beat Good luck loving your home way you know when I
tell you I love you know where you got deep down in my soul
good touch my heart love you